"Let Kids Vote and Let Kids Dream," with Julie Bowditch

This episode aired on 10/23/24 on WICN 90.5FM

Hey Worcester! Josh here back with another episode of Public Hearing. I’m back with Julie Bowditch, the Executive Director of the CASA Project Worcester County, to dive deeper into the incredible work they do supporting youth in foster care. We discuss what advocacy looks like on the ground, how amplifying the voices of young people can make a real difference, and the importance of bringing cultural humility into the work we do. We also explore how our systems often fall short, and what CASA is doing to bridge those gaps and bring dignity and joy to the lives of young people.

We’ll touch on how everything from toys to the legal system impacts the lives of kids in foster care, and why it’s so critical to involve them in decision-making. Whether you’re passionate about youth advocacy, community justice, or just want to learn more about what’s happening in Worcester, this episode is packed with insight.

Key Topics:

• CASA Project’s mission and how they support youth in foster care
• The importance of amplifying youth voices
• Addressing cultural humility and supporting the wants, not just the needs, of foster youth
• Navigating systemic challenges in the foster care and juvenile justice systems
• How community members can get involved with CASA and support local advocacy

Chapter Markers:

• 00:00 – Introduction: Recap of last episode and welcome back to Julie Bowditch
• 01:17 – Intersection of Public Hearing and Queer For Cities
• 02:42 – CASA Project overview: What they do and who they serve
• 04:20 – How CASA advocates for youth in the foster care system
• 10:04 – Challenges in the foster care system and systemic failures
• 12:44 – Cultural humility and supporting the wants of youth
• 16:10 – Amplifying youth voices and rethinking how we support them
• 19:34 – Tactical solutions: CASA’s impact on youth outcomes
• 24:05 – How to get involved with CASA and support local youth

Tune in every Wednesday at 6 PM on WICN 90.5 FM or wherever you get your podcasts, and let’s keep the conversation going!

Learn more and follow at QueerForCities.com/PublicHearing

Created & Hosted by Joshua Croke.
Our Audio Producer is Giuliano D'Orazio.

Transcript

[00:00:00] Joshua Croke: Hello, Worcester in the world. You are listening to public hearing on WICN 90. 5 FM Worcester's only NPR affiliate station and wherever you get your podcasts tune in every week on WICN on Wednesdays at 6 PM to hear me, your host, Joshua Croke, interview people doing things that impact our day to day lives here in Worcester.

The second largest city in New England. And we are back with Julie Bowditch, the executive director of the CASA project. In our first episode back, Julie and I were like, let's explore some things about like Worcester and getting involved and getting reconnected. And we went down an entire rabbit hole of the importance of voting in local elections, some things that we could do to make it better for an easier for folks to show up in a way that you feel as a voter.

Confident in the decisions that you make because there's hopefully more clarity and information around the who you're voting for the, what you're voting for, and the, what power those folks that you put in those seats actually have to do that impact our lives. And so I wanted to bring Julie back on the show to talk.

about her work in a, in a deeper way. And so Julie, I want you to give us the quick kind of elevator pitch of the CASA project, the work that you do, and then like, I want to, we're going to dive right into roots. 

[00:01:17] Julie Bowditch: But before we do, I have a burning question for you that I've been thinking about since last episode.

And the intersection of public hearing the podcast and queer for cities, the project, is there a hybrid of public 

[00:01:29] Joshua Croke: querying? I'm going to say, let's say yes, there is definitely that intersection. And you know, it's, it's funny you say that because I've already been thinking of like, Oh, some of the guests that we have on the show are queer or do queer organizing work, queer justice work.

It, you know, And they're here in Worcester. We've had some of those people on the show. We're like talking to people from across New England, but here in Worcester, like those things exist. And like it just the intersections of who we are are with us, regardless of how we carry that into the room. And I think something that Queer for Cities is really looking to like pull up and amplify more are folks that.

are not necessarily doing work that is like LGBTQ plus, but they are queer. And because of that, like holding that identity, especially holding a marginalized identity impacts and influence how we do the work that we do. And that's why it's so important to have diverse tables folks. But thanks for raising that.

And also the little extra nod to Queer4Cities, which folks can learn more about at Queer4Cities. com, which now public hearing sits under that gay little umbrella. It's 

[00:02:38] Julie Bowditch: perfect. 

[00:02:39] Joshua Croke: So, Julie, 

[00:02:40] Julie Bowditch: CASA 

[00:02:40] Joshua Croke: Project. Talk to me. 

[00:02:42] Julie Bowditch: CASA. So, one of the things I love best about CASA Project, Worcester County, is that we're We are, we were the first CASA project in the state.

We were one of the first pilot programs actually in the country. So yay Worcester. We had a receptive group back in the early eighties of volunteers, of course always getting things done, who decided that this was a concept that they could really get behind and they thought it could change our little corner of the world.

And, you know, 43 years later, our, our program, our nonprofit is still, of course, the oldest CASA project In the state, but we're proud to be one of seven now, but we still remain the largest in terms of capacity and cases that we see here in in Worcester County. So we serve four courts, Worcester, of course, being the largest juvenile court, but there are three satellite courts, one in Fitchburg, Milford and Dudley.

So we serve all four and we have cases in all four. And it's a large region, central Massachusetts. So we're very Very busy. Our our core mission is to advocate for youth in foster care and to amplify their voices and to support them as part of that journey that they're on through sort of the system that they didn't choose to be in, but they're being impacted by.

So it's important to us that we are, you know, raising their voices and their their feelings and needs and wants. It's through that process. 

[00:04:06] Joshua Croke: Can you give me an example or two of what advocacy looks like on a given day or for a particular case to really kind of bring it down to that human level for what young people are experiencing and how CASA steps in to provide support?

[00:04:20] Julie Bowditch: Yes. So the most elevator pitch way I can do it is by saying that of course in any court case there's parties to the case. So there's attorneys. Parents, children, everyone has that right and also those attorneys then have a client and that client then has opinions and wishes and where CASA is unique and our advocacy, I think, shines is that we are only driven by best interests.

So we are an unbiased party, the only, arguably besides the judge, unbiased party to the case who can then fact find and report back to the judge. We, we provide formal reports that are on the case file, but so that's part of our advocacy work is just providing a, a fact based narrative for what's going on.

Sometimes these cases last, you know, months, even years, which is. It's obviously egregious. We don't have time to go down that particular rabbit hole right now around systemic issues that cause that, but I will say what is equally important is the mitigation of risk and harm during that process. So just showing up at court and providing fact based reports to the judge is only to me.

Yes, it is sort of like the root of what we're doing. But. But in the meantime, these kids are humans and they have lives and they have needs that are often are not being addressed or met. And so that might be something more formal, like we think of, you know, speech therapy or an IEP or medical needs that aren't being appropriately advocated for.

However, it can also look like, They really wanted to learn how to dance or, you know, they wanted to go to basketball camp or they need after school care. So it can also, or you know what? What holiday do you celebrate? And is that the same as whatever substitute caregiver you're in the custody of, whether that's congregate care, foster home, or what have you?

How about that stuff that helps them sort of retain that sense of identity and dignity? And And also, I think there's this perception, not in this room, but in, of society that, that, you know, they should be getting the bare minimum. It's just always been a perception, you know, do they have what they need?

Well, why can't they have what they want too? And that's kind of our way of bringing dignity back into the conversation, I think, at CASA around kids deserve to have things that make them feel good and confident and help them to feel, you know, safe. Being a kid is hard enough. So things that make them feel, you know, like they have some autonomy, they they can show up, you know, in a way that expresses themselves, and feel confident in their identity, but also, you know, retain if they have a identity that was from their family of origin, too.

We want to make sure that we're respectful of that as well. And so sometimes those things don't, you know, Always show up in placements in a natural way. So how can we help facilitate that? So we're at the holidays looming. It's the perfect time to talk about these things. And the very first question we ask is.

What holidays do you celebrate or would you like to celebrate instead of just saying like you're going to have a gift under the tree, you know, what if the tree isn't what the receptacle they'd like their gifts to be under? 

[00:07:30] Joshua Croke: Yeah. Well, and I so appreciate that. And it's, you know, doing this work. On a regular basis, you know, and, and looking at how do we bring cultural humility and sensitivity into the work is so critical and so many spaces, again, insert white supremacy, homogenous culture into the mix of like, oh yeah, we just assume that, you know, the calendar days that we take off here are, you know, December 24th, Third through the, you know, blah, blah, blah.

And the insensitivity that that creates in the lives of young people is so critical. And I, and I so appreciate you raising not only dignity, but want, I think we have built systems. that have told young people that they are not deserving and that they get what they get and they should be grateful when our systems are failing them.

And we know, like, doing the type of work that I do with a focus on queer and trans youth, we know that giving young people agency to make decisions results in more positive life outcomes. So these are not things that are just like, oh yeah, you got fed today. It's like, no, like, the things that we Due to our young people and it is the adults pretty much always, you know Yeah, we can talk about, you know youth, you know bullying things like that like obviously that exists in its face, but the systemically like the adults are making the decisions that are impacting the lives of young people negatively and there are so like you said there's attorneys and in my work and it for like listeners of the public hearing from a few years ago I've focused a lot of our conversations around the school to prison pipeline.

We taught, we did a whole series on early childhood education and development. It is such like a critical thing to understand that our systems are built in a way that one are confusing as hell. Like, you know, DCF, DMH, DYS, you know, DPH, like there are so many acronyms and like you get a case worker and then we, we, in some of the work that I did working with young people who were formerly incarcerated, often we're going through the foster system, multiple like DCF, DMH involvement, et cetera, talking to these young people and looking at some of these.

case studies of like, Oh, a young people was left in detention for two weeks because their case worker went on vacation. Like that is a mess that is unacceptable and should never happen. 

[00:10:04] Julie Bowditch: Absolutely. And I think there's intersections, right? We talk about this dignity and wants, and there's so many intersections around food security amongst folks experiencing it.

homelessness and that are unhoused. And I think there's this perception of like, you know, you should just get the clothes on your back and you should get what you got, like you said. And what about what makes me feel good? What about what. gives me confidence to face another day. What about we talk about, you know, the intersection with food security, right?

So you should, you should get this canned good and take it home and like it. Maybe there's a dietary issue there and a food allergy, or maybe you just don't like it, or maybe you deserve fresh food. And you know what, I believe everyone does. And I think that this is the same conversation around, you know, and by the way, I'm not knocking, Other organizations that do things, structure things other ways.

But I always use our backpack drive and our holiday drive as examples. Cause I think people think they're very cookie cutter, you know, kids get a backpack full of stuff or they get, you know, some toys or whatever it is. And we have made a conscious choice to change that process. To we take literally months like we already have launched.

It is October. We've already launched our form for advocates to start having conversations with youth about what do they want? What do they want? What are they hoping for? What are they dreaming of? Why should we? Teach kids in the system that they can't hope and dream and that those will never be fulfilled.

And this might feel very small and maybe superficial, but I think it says a lot to kids at that development level, really, at any development level in your youth about And And I believe that that conversation, so we started now, they start exploring what do kids want? And then instead of just saying, give us toys and we'll distribute them.

We're not Santa Claus. We're specifically staying away from these denominational things. We want kids to have what they want. And so starting that now gives us that. on ramp for then donors to be able to fulfill those exact specific wishes that are for that exact specific child or teenager. Instead of saying we gave you what we thought was cute, maybe they already have it, maybe they don't want it.

The second question we ask, by the way, after what holidays they observe, what is your gender preference? What are your favorite things? What things don't you like? Because you know what really is totally avoidable. A kid opening a gift for whatever holiday they celebrate that they We'll never use aren't interested in maybe they already have maybe they just hate it 

[00:12:44] Joshua Croke: and like and there's 

[00:12:45] Julie Bowditch: so many gender Nonsense with toys and you know, it's just absolutely well and and 

[00:12:50] Joshua Croke: I think it might Just to name for listeners who might not necessarily be thinking about this or making the connection I know that when I was a kid A lot of the toys that I wanted or things that I was like guided to or had the ability to play with and explore led to future either creative or job related pursuits, like play as young people.

I mean, I think I'm under the belief that adults should still play like we need play in our lives, like, and a lot of the work that I've been doing and really nesting more into is about joy as like an antidote to so many issues. Community violence, community health. Can be like, like rooting. people in spaces that bring joy and finding what that means for people is so critical whether that's Exploring who you are by how you express your gender to like I really like to do ballet Instead of play with cars, whatever that is, you know play is at the root and like the way that Young people share something about themselves when they say, this is what I like, or this is what I want for a gift.

So it's like, it is so much more meaningful than what might seem superficial on the surface. 

[00:14:03] Julie Bowditch: Absolutely. And I think it goes back to our mission of, you know, the word amplify is in our mission. We used to use a tagline just. It's sort of not us locally, but just generally CASA giving a child a voice.

And we talked a lot as an organization over the last few years about what does that mean to us and how can we really adjust our thinking and our language to amplifying. And yes, certainly you could argue there's, you know, small children, babies, or, or youth that are developmentally, you know, nonverbal or aren't able to express themselves verbally.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't amplify. They're going to express themselves in some way or at some point in time, and it's our job not to give them a voice, but to amplify their voice. Yes, systems and courts are set up to, that there isn't a space for you to have a direct voice. So I believe it's our job at CASA to truly amplify that.

Amplify their voice. It doesn't always mean that a child's wishes will also be in their best interest, which is a really tough intersection and really tough nuance. However, I believe both can be done and both can be done well and that we can truly amplify their voice. And still advocate for their best interest or for what we have the information that leads us to believe that this is a best interest recommendation.

And I think they have to be done in parallel, you know we have a board member who's really, really qualified in psychology and he talks to me a lot. about the mitigation of harm and how that changes your brain development and how at such a young age with so much trauma generally having occurred to kids in the system that we have the opportunity to mitigate.

Continued harm and trauma, and that's a huge responsibility, but it's also a huge privilege that we have in this work, you know, to when you think about the fact that these kind of, you know, superficial things that seem that, you know, on the surface actually have this real long term impact. on these kids, their development, their long term success and where they end up.

So it's the little things that are the big things. 

[00:16:10] Joshua Croke: Yeah. And I appreciate your framing around amplifying verse giving. I think language is really important. One of my pet peeves, like my, one of my personal pet peeves is how many youth serving organizations use like we empower youth to dot, dot, dot. And I really try and.

I'm very intentional about shifting that language to say like we support youth in Doing x right like it is not our job or nor can we empower someone to do something like People hold power innately themselves and like stepping into that is something that can be supported by things and like our my intention might be to help connect this young people, this young person to their power.

But something I do may or may not have any benefit or impact and I can't claim that. Right. 

[00:16:58] Julie Bowditch: And I think it risks like the saviorism too of doing community work and especially the specific kind of work where you think sort of automatically have less of a voice. We were talking before about the voting age and so forth.

And even youth in the best of circumstances have less of a voice, right? I talked to our local legislators all the time about the fact that youth don't get to vote. So hence youth issues are almost never prioritized. That's just facts. And, you know, we're just calling it how we see it. If kids could vote, how would that change the way we vote?

you know, government institutions interact with youth issues, right? And systemically, right? And so I think that I, I just couldn't agree more that it's so important that youth, youth, especially youth in the system, they lose control of their situations in almost every way. So any chance we get to give them a sliver of control and autonomy over themselves and their situations, I say, Hand it on a silver platter.

[00:18:04] Joshua Croke: And so from the work that you're doing, like I've gotten more and more in my older age, like focused on like, yes, understanding root causes. Yes. Understanding like one, just like always saying we need to dismantle systems of white supremacy and like structural racism. And those things sit in all the corners of the, the.

You know, large, especially governmental systems that we have. And there are people that work within those systems to try and do the dismantling from within people have different beliefs, whether that's possible or not. And, you know, I'm here and I work alongside people in all of these. But something that I've been focused more and more on is like tactics and advocacy, like, what are the things that we can do?

Because we can talk about big vision, right? We can talk about, you know, like, so often I used to ask the question, like, what are Would the world need to look like for your organization to not exist? And I don't want to even necessarily like throw the visionary question out there. I want to say, you know, from the work that you do, what are some of the tactics that you feel are helping to shift, lives of young people to, to more positive outcomes, to more supportive moments, both now and in the future.

And like for listeners who are like, wow, this is really resonating with me. I want to know what to do to be supportive. Like what are the things that you're asking for from legislators, from community, from the caseworkers or attorneys or the folks that you're, you know, you're working with? 

[00:19:34] Julie Bowditch: It's hard because it's such a multifaceted.

right? I would say that Our energy is finite, of course. So learning where to use it in a productive way, sort of to what you're saying, I think is always going to be the goal, but always sort of something we're striving towards because sometimes I do wonder, gosh, is my energy well spent here, you know?

And it's so hard to know. I do think we have to do the work in parallel, meaning, you know, I always use the analogy, like, you know who's throwing babies in the river, right? So many years ago I read a book that was written by the founder or not the founder, but the the director of a residential school I worked at.

And he introduced me to the concept of you, a baby, so this is a terrible, like, you know thing to visualize, but a baby comes tumbling down a river, your, your first instinct, you're going to haul that baby out of the river and save it, right? That's obvious, right? But if another baby comes down the river, and then another baby comes down the river, you know, at some point we have to say, we've got to go upriver and see who's tossing the babies in or who's, you know, Who's not watching the babies and they're crawling into the river, whatever it is.

But you have to, at some point, find the route. So I believe you have to do both. And that's why it takes community because we, someone has to be down river hauling the babies out of the river. And that to me, that's the day to day work. That's the programming. That's the day to day advocacy. That's the core of our work.

And then someone has to be sent on a mission or several someone's upriver to say what the hell is going on because we, this cannot continue. So you both have to save the babies who are drowning now, the kids who are in the systems now, the people who are being impacted by broken systems and, you know, try to find some root causes and be part of the impact of change for, so that another baby doesn't fall in someday or another person doesn't, you know, fall in these circumstances due to system failures, right?

And that's where I really find that I. struggle with how to do that in tandem, but I do think it's exciting to do it in tandem because you know you have a real impact. Today, right now, and you know that you're helping to reshape futures and that kind of like gives me energy and a lot of motivation, I would say it's hard to know where to invest our time, but I do believe that we're very fortunate because we have some local electeds who are really committed to this work and who, you know, we have really candid conversations with around what is the work that we can sort of throw our collective support into that will have meaningful, you know we'll have meaningful change, maybe not today or next year, but, but, you know, in the future, foreseeable future.

It's funny you said that about dreaming, you know, what, what it would look like if your organization didn't exist, because I think my board used to choke on this, but now they're fully, totally 100 percent on board. I say all the time, CASA out of business. I mean, unfortunately, that's not a short term goal.

game. It's not. So for now, we have job security, unfortunately. But that is, that should be all of our job that are doing systems work is to eliminate the need for ourselves. It's not our job to save people. It's our job to fix systems. And meanwhile, some people, you know, we can lend our help to and so I guess I think that the answer is, you know, Meeting people where they're at because some people need to see that tangible like real today I made a difference and that's needed and some people need that really big picture long game and that's needed too So I would just say there's space for both of those things to happen at the same time 

[00:23:05] Joshua Croke: Yes, I I totally agree and it is critical and I am not sure that Anyone has figured out the best way to do this in practice, and I'm not someone who believes in one solution for anything.

I feel like there are a million solutions to everything. But the coupling of strategic vision, long term work, with being able to, Without being separated from the issues on the ground is so vital vital And because it is like and and this is again how we've created these systems. It's like oh, you know I started as a caseworker and then I went here and then I went here and then I went here and now I've been doing This job for 20 years and I haven't been In a situation where I'm sitting with a young person in 20 years, right?

And so how do we continue to like recognize like being on the ground in community is such a critical component for everyone at every stage at every 

[00:24:05] Julie Bowditch: level. Absolutely. And how 

[00:24:06] Joshua Croke: do we build those mechanisms? And we're getting close to time. I could talk to you forever, but I want folks to know how to get involved with.

Learn about, follow CASA. So 

[00:24:16] Julie Bowditch: yes, we have, so the CASAProject. org is always going to be your best resource for learning more. You can apply to volunteer there as an advocate. We know that's a big commitment, so it might not be for everyone, but we have project work throughout the year, you know, committees and what have you.

And that there's a lot of opportunity there. So I would urge people to go to the CASAProject. org. And the, the other thing I was just going to add around sort of the, the community work is you mentioned earlier, how can we be effective? And I just wanted to drop this down. Very brief anecdote that I think there are people out there that are disruptors and by the way, I'm here for it.

But I think that I would caution folks to not become so disruptive that you're no longer able to foster relationships. Because you said earlier, relationships are everything and I believe that to my core. And I I would just caution people that do the work, get mad, say the things that are uncomfortable by all means, but don't forget, don't lose sight of the fact that we need each other too.

And that to have productive conversations, I think it's important to find some commonality, to be able to be respectful of each other. And trust me, I get mad too every single day, but I also recognize that we have, we need each other and to move the needle forward. Truly, we need to be able to. You know, coexistence faces and and, and not have people tune us out either.

So I think that there's, it's a fine balance to walk, you know, to not be conformist, but also to not be so polarizing that you, you can't, you can't be heard. So that would just be my cautionary tale. 

[00:25:50] Joshua Croke: Yeah. And, and I so value and appreciate that. And I think, you know, in relationship, any long standing relationship, I think that anyone has that is.

Deep and truly meaningful means that you have navigated disagreement. You have navigated, navigated challenge. You've navigated betrayal. You have navigated things and come out on the other side saying, I believe that our relationship is worth. 

[00:26:14] Julie Bowditch: And we're better together. 

[00:26:16] Joshua Croke: And we're better together. And so I would encourage folks in our last minute here, and maybe this is your, a seed for conversation at the dinner table, is to really ask yourself and your loved ones, like, what makes our relationship here work?

And how do I extend that out into my community? Because I'm not asking everyone to treat everyone that they work with in their community or their city counselor like a a cared for family member. But I am saying that if we are showing up in community and we are doing work around similar issues we need to recognize the motivation that's bringing us to that table and really try and commit to working through to find solution.

So Julie, we've been talking to Julie Bowditch, Executive Director of the CASA Project. very much. You've been listening to Public Hearing on WICN 90. 5 FM, Worcester's only NPR affiliate station. I'm your host, Joshua Croke. You can learn more about our show, Public Hearing, as well as everything that lives under the little gay umbrella of Queer 4 Cities at queerforcities.com. And as always, thanks for listening.