Therapy For Your Money

Episode 137: The #1 Thing You Must Do To Get More Private-Pay Clients (with Deb Legge)

• Julie Herres • Season 4 • Episode 137

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Unlocking the Power of Private Pay Practice: Expert Insights and Advice

In this episode of 'Therapy for Your Money', host Julie Herres discusses the importance of private pay practices for therapists with guest Deb Legge, a mental health professional and business coach. Deb shares her experiences shifting towards private pay practices, emphasizing the importance of understanding value, the necessity of effective marketing, and the benefit of identifying and reaching out to key target markets. Furthermore, she discusses strategies for dealing with potential clients' insurance questions and reminds practitioners that their ultimate goal is to provide effective service to clients. Deb also shares information about her 'Private Pay Practice Program' and a special podcast series giveaway. In this episode, you will discover insights on: 

1. Niche Services: Deb Legge emphasizes the importance of offering unique and specialized services that set you apart. She reveals strategies to identify niche markets and provide services that clients can't find elsewhere. 

2. Expert Insights: As an industry expert, Deb Legge shares her wealth of knowledge on positioning yourself as the go-to professional in your niche market. She discusses the power of being the best choice for your target audience and provides practical tips on building trust and credibility. 

3. Connect with Your Ideal Clients: Deb explains why focusing on a specific target market leads to better results and a stronger connection with clients. Discover the secrets to making your practice more memorable and effective by following Deb's advice in this episode.

Episode Highlights

00:04 Introduction to the Podcast
00:51 The Importance of Private Pay Clients
01:04 Guest Introduction: Deb Legge
02:26 Understanding the Benefits of Private Pay
04:16 Addressing Accessibility Concerns
05:17 The Importance of Niche Specialization
07:40 Effective Marketing Strategies
10:35 Increasing Referrals
13:47 Overcoming Barriers to Private Pay
17:51 Starting the Transition to Private Pay
17:59 Understanding Your Value
18:55 The Role of Mindset in Private Pay
21:49 The Importance of Professional Services
24:02 Deb's Private Pay Practice Program
27:15 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Links and Resources


Podcast Production and Show Notes by Course Creation Studio

 Episode 137: The #1 Thing You Must Do To Get More Private-Pay Clients

Episode 137: The #1 Thing You Must Do To Get More Private-Pay Clients

[00:00:00] Julie Herres: You're listening to Therapy for Your Money, a podcast about all things, money and finance for therapy practice owners. If you want to feel confident and in control of your financial life, then you've come to the right spot. I'm your host, Julie Herres. I'm an accountant and the owner of Green Oak Accounting.

[00:00:20] Julie Herres: My firm specializes in working with private practices across the US and my team and I have worked with hundreds of private practice owners. I'm on a mission to share all the best practices I've learned along the way. Because I want you to have a profitable private practice.

[00:00:35] Julie Herres: My new book, profit First for Therapists is available at most online retailers. You can get it in paperback, audiobook, or ebook as well. Go check it out.

[00:00:43] Julie Herres: Hello, everyone. And welcome to therapy for your money. Today we're talking about a topic that I find really fascinating. We're talking about what is the number one thing you must do to get more private pay clients. If I had a dollar for every time I've been asked that question, I would have a lot of dollars.

[00:01:02] Julie Herres: I would have a lot of dollars. So with me today is the wonderful Deb Legge. Hi, Deb. Hi. 

[00:01:09] Deb Legge: Hi. Hi, Julie. It's so good to be here with you. Yeah. 

[00:01:11] Julie Herres: Welcome to therapy for money. Um, let's start by telling, why don't you tell us a little bit about you and what you do 

[00:01:17] Deb Legge: and we'll jump right in. Okay. Julie, I help mental health professionals start and grow their businesses and get more private pay clients.

[00:01:25] Deb Legge: Um, in addition to the business coaching that I've been doing for about 25 years, I'm also a psychotherapist in private practice for 30 years now, and I'm a retired counselor educator. Thank you. So, when I first started out, I came from private industry. I used to sell trucks for International Harvester.

[00:01:43] Deb Legge: What? That's so different. I know. And so, when I decided and was able to go to school and do what I wanted to do, I, um, I graduated and found that at that time, I could not take insurance. So, I was in a world where almost everyone relied on insurance referrals, and in 1994, um, I was a single mom, and I really couldn't afford to work for somebody else, so I had no choice but to figure out how to build a private pay practice fast.

[00:02:12] Deb Legge: Okay. 

[00:02:12] Julie Herres: So, that was my question. Like, you said, I could not take it, like, what, but it was a financial decision. You could not live on, uh, insurance. Revenue. Okay. So, I mean, this is such a popular and almost divisive topic. Um, so why, why, why would someone pay you out of pocket when they have insurance? 

[00:02:33] Deb Legge: Well, actually, there are many reasons that people let pay out of, um, pocket.

[00:02:37] Deb Legge: Some are just practical issues. People are going to pay out of pocket if they want to maintain a higher level of privacy. I get lots of clients who are in jobs or they're, they're sending me their young adults who are kids who are, um, going to go out into the workplace and they don't want any record of a mental health diagnosis or treatment.

[00:02:56] Deb Legge: People will pay out of pocket for services that insurance won't cover, things like extended sessions or modalities of treatment that insurance won't approve or treatment outside of the need for medical necessity, um, and if a person wants to be seen more frequently. So they'll, they'll pay out of pocket for that.

[00:03:14] Deb Legge: Um, people also, many people have high deductibles, Julie. And so. Really doesn't matter who they're seeing, they're going to be out of pocket. So that's, you know, that's one thing. And then a whole bunch of people have out of network benefits that they are willing to tap into in order to have a provider of choice.

[00:03:31] Deb Legge: But what I have found is that More than just the practical issues, the reality is that people find money for that, which is important to them. I think where you live, what town, what state you're going to drive through and that every neighborhood will have 60 inch TVs. Here and there, there'll be sports cars in the driveway, there will be 20, 000 sheds in the backyard, and if you come to my house, you'll find a 15, 000 sewing machine in my sewing room.

[00:04:01] Deb Legge: Because 

[00:04:01] Julie Herres: that's important to you? 

[00:04:03] Deb Legge: Because that was important to me. So I think that people will often pay out of pocket if they believe that you're the one that can help them solve their biggest problems as soon as possible. And that's the charge. Yeah. 

[00:04:16] Julie Herres: One of the, um, resistance points that I sometimes hear about, you know, Oh, I can't possibly go to private pay because what about accessibility, right?

[00:04:26] Julie Herres: What about the people who can't afford it? So what is, what would you say to that? 

[00:04:31] Deb Legge: Well, I would say that there are people who aren't going to be able to pay you out of pocket. There will be even more people who won't be willing to pay you out of pocket. But that there are many, many people who have money or the ability to pay you out of pocket who also need help.

[00:04:47] Deb Legge: You can't help everybody. And so if you want to, if you want to, if you're creating a nice practice where you can regenerate more income, you can open up a couple of pro bono slots or offer a sliding scale to a few people if that's what makes you feel better. If it's that kind of an issue. Mm hmm. It's not an issue that I have to take insurance just because I have to be accessible to everybody.

[00:05:13] Deb Legge: You're not meant to work with everybody anyway. 

[00:05:17] Julie Herres: And so do you find that to be successful, private pay, uh, practices have to be more niche than 

[00:05:24] Deb Legge: generalists? I don't believe that people remember generalists. I think it's important to have a target market. And tell me more. Yeah, I really, I just, I just don't believe that they do.

[00:05:38] Deb Legge: I think that, and that's been my experience, it's important to know who your target market is and it's important to know what your niche services are, what you can provide your people that they can't get anywhere else, or what you can provide for them where they believe that you're the best choice for them.

[00:05:53] Deb Legge: So, 

[00:05:54] Julie Herres: how niche should you go then? 

[00:05:58] Deb Legge: It depends. I mean, if, if you, if you're, I think of, you know, colleagues who are hypnotherapists, for example, and that's all they do and they're doing great because it's hard to find a hypnotherapist. But if you're going to be a person who helps people with anxiety and depression.

[00:06:15] Deb Legge: And you can't chisel that down a little bit more. You're going to be in the pile of people who help people with anxiety and depression. Okay. So 

[00:06:23] Julie Herres: give me an example. Like, how would you chisel that down more like for women in their forties, for children between ages X and Y, like how, how 

[00:06:31] Deb Legge: specific? Oh, it can be very, I mean, those are great.

[00:06:34] Deb Legge: And another might be, um, helping families, for example, working with children and families who are going through divorce. Okay. You know, and, and, but what people get nervous about when it comes down to ideal clients, choosing an ideal client, um, or a market is that they think that it's forever. And they think that it's the only people that they can see.

[00:06:55] Deb Legge: And those are both untrue because you can change. your practice as you go along. And also you can have more than one thing. Like I'm a board certified trauma specialist, but I also, you know, work with other things and I can let people know I do this and I do this. But for marketing, the more I can, um, niche it down for marketing.

[00:07:15] Deb Legge: My marketing is going to be more effective no matter how many times I tell people what I specialize in. I still get phone calls from people who have nothing to do with what I specialize in looking for appointments and there's nothing that stops me from saying, sure, I'd be happy to see you if I feel it's a good fit and I can help them.

[00:07:32] Deb Legge: Yeah. Okay. 

[00:07:34] Julie Herres: And then you get to make that 

[00:07:35] Deb Legge: choice at that point. Yes. With the client. Okay. 

[00:07:40] Julie Herres: So, if a clinician wants more private pay clients, like what would they need to do to go in that direction? 

[00:07:48] Deb Legge: Um, I'd say there are three big things. One is they need to have a really solid, solid foundation, um, to know who they are, what they do, why they do it, who they serve.

[00:08:00] Deb Legge: It, that really has to be chiseled down because people that don't have that solid foundation find themselves worrying about clients time after time after time because they don't know who they are. You're going to have to be able to know those things so that you can communicate that effectively to the prospective clients and the prospective referrers.

[00:08:18] Deb Legge: They need to know their, um, You know, they need to know that you're there for them, so you have to be able to communicate it. The second thing is that they need to know that, um, who their ideal clients are, like the back of their hand. What are their biggest problems, their greatest needs, their worst fears, their agonizing worries?

[00:08:37] Deb Legge: Um, and how am I going to help fill those gaps? You know, that's what people want to know. Are you going to fill the gap for me? Once you know that, you're going to be able to tell people who you are, not by CV, but you're going to tell them about all those cool things that you've done in terms of how it benefits them.

[00:08:55] Deb Legge: Because the biggest question that anybody has in their mind when they're trying to decide who to see is why, given all of my options, including doing nothing at all, should I do business with you? And you need to answer that in everything that you put out there. All people really want to know is what can you do for me?

[00:09:14] Deb Legge: And if you're not answering that all the time, you're not going to get these clients. 

[00:09:18] Julie Herres: It's true of all marketing really when we think about it, but definitely also mental health. 

[00:09:25] Deb Legge: Yeah. I, yeah. You walk into target and you know, you just stand there and you think, what's this store got for me today? You know, it's not about how, how beautiful it looks.

[00:09:35] Deb Legge: It's, it's about what have you got for me? So in order to do the, all these things, I think. It involves having a systematic and efficient marketing strategy. None of us as clinicians want to have marketing as a full time job. We want to sit with our clients. So you need something that's going to be efficient and effective.

[00:09:55] Deb Legge: It doesn't have to cost you a dime. Um, and it doesn't, like I said, it doesn't have to be that second job, um, because over time your marketing efforts are going to shift from, you know, direct outreach, for example, to word of mouth referrals that are more organic and how they, how they, um, kind of unfold.

[00:10:14] Deb Legge: Just with collaboration and other things like that. So the, you know, the only reason that people's books aren't fulfilled right now, the only reason your book isn't full is because not enough people know that you're the best thing for them. And that's them. 

[00:10:30] Julie Herres: I've heard you mention referrals now, I think twice, and I kind of made a mental note of it.

[00:10:35] Julie Herres: I think what, what can someone do to increase the number? Okay. 

[00:10:43] Deb Legge: So if you know who your target market is, if you know the people that you serve best, then you have to think about where can I find them? Where can I find them most efficiently? So we start looking for what we call gatekeepers. Gatekeepers are people who have influence over and access to your target market.

[00:11:01] Deb Legge: So if I'm seeing, let's say I work with kids who have OCD. Um, my gatekeepers are going to be school counselors, school psychologists, the person who runs the Y, um, it's going to be pediatricians. Those are the, those are the referrers. So you need to know where to find them. That's that's one of the advantages of choosing a target market is that you know where to find them.

[00:11:26] Deb Legge: Yeah. 

[00:11:27] Julie Herres: Well, and once you identify them, like how do you actually get. Get in. 

[00:11:32] Deb Legge: So then you have to think about it in terms of this. So let's think about that pediatrician who is swamped, probably scheduling clients every 10 minutes and who is seeing more and more mental health issues come to the surface and they don't have time to address them.

[00:11:49] Deb Legge: You have to think about that because when you're thinking about. Talking to your client and letting them know why you, you're there to help them. The same thing happens for your referrers. So I'm going to reach out to a PD, maybe a pediatrician office if this is my specialty, and I'm going to maybe talk to the practice manager and say, um, I would really like to help you.

[00:12:10] Deb Legge: with the mental health needs of your patients. I can only imagine how busy you guys are and how much more you're seeing anxiety and depression and ADHD and all kinds of things in your kids. And I know you don't have time to do that. So how can we put our heads together so that I can help you with that piece of what, what your clients or patients are going through?

[00:12:30] Deb Legge: So that's the outreach. How can I help you? 

[00:12:34] Julie Herres: Okay. So it's not a fruit basket or donuts or, or, or it's just the making the connection. 

[00:12:40] Deb Legge: Yeah. I mean, if you wanna do that other thing, make it creative and give them like a big jug of things that they're gonna be sticking their hand into probably for the next two weeks rather than the box of donuts They're gonna throw in the garbage that night.

[00:12:53] Deb Legge: Yeah. And put your card on it.

[00:12:58] Deb Legge: But that's how much you need to do. They don't want, you know, they, they eat at home. They don't, they don't need that. They need you to take something off their plate. Mm-Hmm. , they know that they can. For, they can stop worrying about their patient's mental health care because they've got you. They need to know that if they need you because they're in a jam because they've got a patient who's in trouble, that you're going to be there and whether or not you see that kid, you're going to make sure that kid gets the referral that they need.

[00:13:24] Deb Legge: That's what they want. Yeah. Well, 

[00:13:26] Julie Herres: and, and I'd love, love to move in a. Into a practical direction because I, I, I just can think of, uh, there's multiple clients in my mind, right? And who are practice owners are thinking like, oh, but then when they call and they say they want to use their insurance, then what do I do?

[00:13:43] Julie Herres: I'm going to, I'm going to say, no, I don't take insurance and they're going to go somewhere else. So, like, how do you get past all of these barriers, whether they're like, true or perceived 

[00:13:52] Deb Legge: barriers. No, I, that's a very good question. And that's, you know, I try to teach it in a way and I, and I will actually, I actually, we give people, um, kind of scripts so they can learn how to speak with people about this.

[00:14:07] Deb Legge: If someone calls my office and says, hi, I'm just, uh, I was calling to see if you take my insurance. And I'll say to them, well, before we go there, can you just give me an idea of what you're looking for in counseling so I know if I'm even the right person for you. And then all of a sudden there's like this side on the other side, like, oh, you know, I can, you really want to know what I'm looking for.

[00:14:28] Deb Legge: Right. You know, like I don't have to ask that question. I think that people are just. Um, they're just kind of, uh, that's, they think that's the first question that they should ask. So I'll ask them that question and they'll say, well, you know what? I've, I've been going through a really tough time. X, Y, Z is going on.

[00:14:45] Deb Legge: It's been really hard and I really just need to talk to somebody. A couple of things have happened there. One, you've already shown them that you care. Two, you've shown them that you want to make sure it's a good fit. And so you care about how the process is going to go. And they've already invested time in sharing with you what's going on.

[00:15:02] Deb Legge: And so when it comes back around to, you know, before you ask me if I take your insurance, I'm not a provider for insurance, but I'm happy to help you figure out if your insurance will cover out of network benefits. And if not, let's, you know, let's talk about how this is going to work. And I'm telling you that at least half of the time people are going to say, well, I've already started telling you about what I'm doing.

[00:15:29] Deb Legge: The other thing that I do is I tell them the way it works is. I'll have, when you come in for your first session, I do a complete psychiatric assessment. So I will go through, I will ask you all the questions and at the end of our first, toward the end of our first session, I will have collected a lot of information about what's going on now, a little about the past, and we'll talk more about what you want to accomplish in therapy and we'll see if it feels like a good fit.

[00:15:54] Deb Legge: And if it feels like a good fit, then we'll make the next appointment. And if not, I'll give you some names. And they're almost always all in for that. Because I'm going to provide them with my impressions of what's going on. Yeah. They'll have had the chance to tell their story and then we can really see.

[00:16:11] Deb Legge: And I, it's very rare that I end up giving somebody names they want, you know, it's more often that it's a very good fit because I've already done the initial screening in that phone call where I know that I'm probably the right person for them. Well, so when, 

[00:16:26] Julie Herres: I mean, you, you make it sound very easy and I love that.

[00:16:29] Julie Herres: Uh, what is. Okay. Thanks. a conversion rates that someone can expect when you're a hundred percent private pay. I, I know it's lower than an insurance practice, but like, what do you think is normal, uh, with the, the, the practice owners 

[00:16:44] Deb Legge: that you coach? Well, I can tell you that it's probably, you probably have to reach out to twice as many people.

[00:16:50] Deb Legge: Okay. So, you know, whatever your conversion rate is now, plan on reaching out to twice as many people. But you have to be smart about who you reach out to. I mean, you have to think about it. Part of the description of your ideal client has to be that they're able and willing to pay you out of pocket. Mm hmm.

[00:17:07] Deb Legge: That's part of the description. You know, I had a, somebody, I had a, someone who wrote, approached me, uh, once looking to start a private practice. She didn't want to take insurance, but she wanted to work with homeless population. Mm hmm. And I told her that, you know, you can't have it, you can't have it all in one, but let's talk about this because if you want to do a private pay practice, you can do that.

[00:17:31] Deb Legge: You'll generate X number of income over X number of clients. And then you can figure out if you want to do a few sessions a week and with the homeless population where you can do that and feel comfortable to do that financially. Pro bono. 

[00:17:43] Julie Herres: Yeah. That, that makes sense to me where like the math just doesn't make sense Sarah, like if you, yeah.

[00:17:49] Julie Herres: Yeah. Absolutely. Um, okay. So where would someone start? Let's say they're in practice already taking insurance, 

[00:17:57] Deb Legge: like what do you do? Okay. The biggest, the, I think the biggest, um, problem I see with people when they, when they're thinking about private pay is it's all about mindset as clinicians, they don't recognize the value.

[00:18:13] Deb Legge: that they bring to the table. So I would say that you need to know your value. If you don't know your value, nobody else is ever going to know your value. So you have to know the financial, emotional, physical, and spiritual benefits you provide. And you need to be able to educate your people with regard to the value.

[00:18:32] Deb Legge: That you're bringing to the table, um, because people are going to buy from you when they think that you're worth the investment based on their perception of the value you bring to them. Okay. So mindset 

[00:18:46] Julie Herres: first, then what 

[00:18:47] Deb Legge: first, then you have to be all in about why you're not going to take insurance. You have to feel confident in that.

[00:18:55] Deb Legge: If you're not confident in it, if you're wishy washy about it, you're never ever going to do that. You're, the more comfortable you are talking about money, the more comfortable your clients are going to be talking about money. That feels uncomfortable 

[00:19:08] Julie Herres: for a lot of listeners. I've got like, you're just feeling like, Oh, that feels icky.

[00:19:13] Deb Legge: But you know what, when I, um, Michael poor is one of my mentors. And when I was coaching with Michael, um, he taught me a long time ago that almost every business problem is a personal problem in disguise. And I believe that if you've got money issues and we all bring our stuff with us, right? You got to know, you just have to know it.

[00:19:33] Deb Legge: You don't have to solve it, but you sure have to know it and how it's affecting your business bottom line. So if you want to not take insurance, you have to know why I want to do this because I want to be here two years from now and I can't afford to do that based on what the insurance is paying me or I want the autonomy to provide the best care based on my client's needs, not based on what the insurance company is going to let me do.

[00:19:53] Deb Legge: Or I want the flexibility to live the life. I want to live with my kids while they're young. That's going to make me happier and a better therapist. So you got to believe in those reasons. And then you have to stop the negative thoughts about marketing. You have to accept that if you own a business, you're in sales, period.

[00:20:11] Deb Legge: End of story. So I love that. 

[00:20:14] Julie Herres: So it's so true. Like you have a business you have to sell. And I, I am of the opinion it is in service. to your clients to sell to them. Like, they're calling you because they have a problem. You're doing them a service by selling them a service that 

[00:20:28] Deb Legge: they need. So you're not selling used cars on a corner, most of us feel like, and that's why I'm speaking about it.

[00:20:36] Deb Legge: So if you can do that paradigm shift of with a heart of service, I'm going into this, and you believe that you're truly meant to help certain people, then you have an obligation to let them know that you exist as a resource to them. Yeah. So I said, you know, and then I think the final thing you really need to do is, um, to stop spinning your wheels and thinking that you have to figure everything out all on your own.

[00:21:01] Deb Legge: I think as practice owners and as therapists, we are conditioned to think about all the other things except the business aspects of things. And we have no idea, you know, most therapists don't think about return on investment. We don't think about ROI like other business people do. You know, when, when I see a therapist tell me, ah, I don't know if I want to spend 30 a month on psychology today to put my ad up.

[00:21:24] Deb Legge: And I think to my, and I tell them, if you see one client for two or three sessions, it's going to pay for that ad for the whole year. Or I don't want to do this coaching, you know, package for three or 4, 000. And we figure it out. And it's like, if you have two clients for 10 sessions each. It's going to pay for this thing and it's going to bring you clients for the life of your 

[00:21:44] Julie Herres: practice.

[00:21:46] Julie Herres: I see that so often on the professional services side. Like, Oh, I don't want to pay an attorney to review this contract. I'm going to find something on LegalZoom for free or like with my free trial on LegalZoom. I'm like, Do you know that if that is wrong, how many thousands of dollars that's going to cost you?

[00:22:03] Julie Herres: Like, please spend 500 with an attorney to know you got it right. Like these are really big decisions. They are. Um, and also on the accounting side, like, oh, everyone can be a bookkeeper. Let me do this. I promise you not everyone can be like, I promise you, you should not do your own tax return. You should not do your own books.

[00:22:21] Julie Herres: Once you've started the business, like please let the professionals do what they do best. Right. I know. You also went to school, like attorneys went to school, like hire a website person for your website. You're doing a crappy job. You are not doing, it looks horrible. Please stop. 

[00:22:36] Deb Legge: Yes. Please stop. And don't, don't spend five or 10 hours doing something you can pay an expert one or two hours to do.

[00:22:47] Deb Legge: Yes. 

[00:22:47] Julie Herres: I joke. There is a point in. you know, a brand new baby practice where I think it makes sense to, to bootstrap it and do a lot of the things yourself. But then you have to pull yourself out of that mindset that you have to be the expert at everything because successful business owners just don't think that way.

[00:23:06] Julie Herres: And it's hard to be a successful business owner when you want to be the expert at all the things. Yes. It just is very difficult. 

[00:23:15] Deb Legge: I agree. Um, 

[00:23:18] Julie Herres: Tab, my final question for you is, what is your favorite business book and why? 

[00:23:25] Deb Legge: I would say that most recently it's All In Startup by Diana Kander. I love the book because It's so, I believe that the, really the crux of finding the most client potential is by knowing what your clients really need.

[00:23:41] Deb Legge: And this book helps you get to what does my client really need from my client's perspective, not mine. And the thing I love about the book is that it's a really quick read and it's fiction and it's about gambling in, in Las Vegas. All right. All in 

[00:23:57] Julie Herres: startup. Yeah. I love it. All right. We're going to put that on our, on our bookshelf.

[00:24:02] Julie Herres: Um, all right, Deb, you have a coaching program and I think after this really interesting discussion, some of our listeners are going to be interested in, in, in finding out more about the coaching that you do. So can you tell us a little bit more 

[00:24:13] Deb Legge: about that? Sure. Um, the program is called the Private Pay Practice Program and it's a program that I launched in 2017 and I still love every minute of it.

[00:24:23] Deb Legge: Um, it's an eight week training that you can do at your own pace, but it also includes an entire year of group coaching in the form of implementation calls where we get together and help you to get things done. Um, so the group is, it's an amazing group of wonderful people. Um, they are, have diverse backgrounds, diverse specializations, but everybody's working toward.

[00:24:44] Deb Legge: uh, growing their business. And our group members are super compassionate and supportive. And you know, as therapists, oftentimes we're alone. We're either with our clients or we're behind closed doors. It can be a very lonely place. So these group meetings are so crucial for so many people. So we actually handpick our members to make sure that it's a really good fit for everybody.

[00:25:05] Deb Legge: Um, and that has worked out really well for us. Um, the training is very doable. It's step by step. You literally have a blueprint, literally have a blueprint in your hand at the end of the training. And it's one that you can use over and over again when you repurpose and, and you know, you just redo your practice through the years, you'll have everything you need.

[00:25:26] Deb Legge: It's just a very proven marketing system that is simple and has stood the test of time. Yeah. 

[00:25:32] Julie Herres: And I was on your website earlier today and I mean, the testimonials are just. Um, so complimentary, right? I was like, oh, I didn't know what to say, but I, I had the script and I went through and then I got the client and I mean, what a good feeling that that must be right.

[00:25:48] Julie Herres: I was like, just knowing I know I can help this person and I had the right. Verbiage to make them see that also and like, and cross the hurdles that we were 

[00:25:59] Deb Legge: facing. Yeah. And isn't it cool for, and then, you know, the meta version of that, of me knowing that I can give that to somebody. Yeah. Makes me feel so good.

[00:26:10] Deb Legge: All right. So 

[00:26:11] Julie Herres: I don't think you told us the website. Where can they, where can listeners find your website? The 

[00:26:16] Deb Legge: website is privatepaypractice. com, but we have a free giveaway. Oh, tell me more. I want to tell you about it's called the ultimate guide to growing a private pay practice. It's an eight part podcast series.

[00:26:28] Deb Legge: And it's a private podcast, so they need a link to it. So if we can put the link in the show notes, that would be great. Yes. We will do that. That would be, that'd be great. And they can find that on a page within the private pay practice website, but it's private pay practice. com. 

[00:26:43] Julie Herres: Perfect. Deb, thank you so much for joining me 

[00:26:45] Deb Legge: today.

[00:26:46] Deb Legge: Thank you so much for having me. This was really fun.

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