The Simply Equality podcast

The woman behind the woman!

August 14, 2020 Sarah Stephenson-Hunter Season 1 Episode 3
The Simply Equality podcast
The woman behind the woman!
Show Notes Transcript

 In this latest episode I talk to the real Mrs. Stephenson-Hunter...yes that's right my wonderful wife Clare!!
Clare is one of my most fervent supporters, allies and overall strength behind a lot of the work I do.  I'm often the one who gets the public recognition but it's no lie to say that without her support I wouldn't be anything like the woman I am now and am yet to become.
Join me as Clare tells of her own struggles with her sexuality and gender and her lived experience of fluctuating "invisible" disabilities that have had a major impact on her over the years.  She talks openly and with her trademark humour about being diagnosed as dyslexic late in life, traning and now working as a social worker, difficulties with anxiety particularly during lockdown and how a burnt fish finger sandwich played a big part in her early family life!!

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

Hi, and welcome to the latest episode of The Simply Equality podcast. This podcast seeks to foreground the lived experiences of disabled and LGBT people. And I have got a another fantastic interview in store for you in this episode. My name is Sarah Stephenson-Hunter, I'm your host. For those of you that want to know a bit more about me, I would suggest you go and listen to the intro episode that was released a few weeks ago. Or you can go to my website, which is found at www.simplyequality.com. Also, I want to really thank those of you that have taken the time to give feedback, to give reviews. Please, if you haven't done so already, then do go and do that on Apple podcasts on Spotify, on Google podcasts, wherever you find your podcasts. And please do leave me a review. If you have any specific comments or feedback you want to give or possible suggestions for future guests, probably the best way to get in touch is via email, you can email me via info@simplyequality.com. So that's enough of my introductory talk. I'm now going to get on with our main interview, which... I've got a very interesting guest, more about them in a minute. But for now, just sit back, enjoy and I'll speak to you again soon. I have a very special guest here today in the podcast, a certain Claire Stephenson-Hunter. So for those of you that are sharp- eared you will probably think ooh, Stephenson-Hunter. Yes, I do have to disclose, it's my wife. It's the woman behind the woman. It's Claire. Claire, welcome to

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

Rah, rah, rapturous applause. No, the podcast. sorry, no, hello! [laughter]

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

I'm really pleased you've agreed to do this. And lots of people have obviously heard me speak, and do podcasts and talks, etc. And I think what they don't realise is that you, too, have a very interesting sort of story.

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

A chequered history, you mean?

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

You too have a chequered history, if not a interesting story to tell. So Clare, perhaps you just start by telling us a bit in terms of your own identity as a disabled person. Just tell me a bit more about that, and what that means to you.

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

Okay, so, um, hi guys, I have hidden disabilities. Well, once upon a time, they weren't so hidden, I have something called psoriatic arthropophy. And that is a arthritic condition, which coincides with psoriasis. It's where you're... basicallyit's a bit like rheumatoid arthritis. But that's being well managed at the moment. So that's very hidden. So I don't need to walk with sticks, don't have to get help from Sarah to move in bed and get out of baths, and things like that. So I'm actually running. So...

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

We'll come on to that in a bit.

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

Okay. So obviously, my joints are doing really well at the moment. Um...

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

I'll just pause you there. So you mentioned the fact that I don't have to turn you over bed or anything.

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

Yeah.

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

Is that something that has been the case before?

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

It has been the case before, um, probably about 10 years ago. In fact, um, I used to, I had to walk with a stick, couldn't move in bed sometimes without being, you know, helped to roll over, couldn't put my clothes on properly. And then I got put on some, a biologic medication, which basically transformed my life. Both my skin and my joints. improved by like 80, 90%. It was quite marvellous, really.

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

Because I think one thing that people don't realise is looking at you, for those of you that know Clare, she certainly doesn't walk with a stick. She has no obvious sign of disabilities. And certainly since Clare and I met, coming up to, oh my gosh, on the spot, six years, coming

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

...nearly seven... up to six years, Claire's never had....

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

Thank you. Clare's never had to use a stick or anything in my time. But I think it's certainly interesting for me that, you know, people hear the word psoriasis, psoriatic arthritis, and they think, well, what's that? That's just dodgy skin, isn't it? But it's a lot more than that, isn't it Clare? It is more than that. It's, so basically, it's like the body's turning in on itself. Um, and some people have it a hell of a lot worse than I do. My skin was pretty bad. And it was actually the dermatologist that really pushed for me to go on this biologic medication. When my... sorry, my consultant, he left, who gave me the original diagnosis, a registrar tried to undiagnosed me, but he wasn't very successful because you know, it didn't happen, even though he was he was trying to make out it was something completely different, and the tests prove that it was, but um, yeah, so... but it wasn't actually rheumatology that actually got me on medication it was actually down to dermatology, which I'll be forever grateful for because it has transformed my life. Mmmm. I mean, yeah, the minute literally, you have to remember once a fortnight to jab yourself and that's it, isn't it?

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

Yeah, I have an injection once a fortnight, have my bloods done now in Oxford, so it's only once every year. When I was in Nottingham it was once every three months I would have to go to the hospital, but I have regular touch base with the hospital at Oxford via telephone, and just blood tests once a year.

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

Mmm. And as you say, you've taken up running during lockdown.

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

I have. So, I mean, luckily for us, we have a treadmill. And obviously you're spoken about you're running Sarah, so um, I was never a runner. I used to do lots of weightlifting, bit of boxercise, that sort of thing. Never thought I could run, never had the inclination to run. But did the Couch to 5k, and actually completed the Couch to 5k Friday.

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

[Applause]

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

Thank you very much...on Friday. And you know, I'm not quite up to 5 yet. But I've done the programme, and have just started another programme with Jenny Falconer, which is, I'm now doing 4k, so that's really good.

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

And just for those of you that don't know the story, obviously I have been running now for four or five years. I've done five half marathons, several 10ks. I'm not fast, but I do it. I grew up with arthritis. I certainly was under the impression when I was growing up that people with arthritis can't run, can't do that sort of exercise. So I wasn't even allowed to do PE at school. So I started running for my own benefit. I've been very clear never to pressure Claire. Claire's always been very adamant you're not a runner, haven't you?

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

I'm not a runner. I'm still adamant I'm not a runner. But I run[laughter].

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

So I think it just really is an interesting message that yes, you should check with your medical consultant. But just because you have something like arthritis or other conditions, don't automatically presume you can't do exercise, you can't run. Because what we've both found - in contrast, we are both now running and we find that actually running has improved our overall management of arthritis.

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

So completely different to Sarah I actually was really really into sports was a netball team, hockey team at school played P.E. as a GCSE subject. So, you know, there were some days during school time, that I would just have my P.E. kit on full time. So, you know, it wasn't until I got to about 15, 16 that I started getting joint pain. And for years until I was 24, I believe, that I was told that I had growing pains. Growing pains do not cause the pain that arthritis causes. And I was sure that it wasn't growing pains. But it's just... it's funny how previous guests said the Gears for Queers I believe, said that women aren't listened to when they go to see GPs etc. Yeah, I think women are less likely to be listened to. I'm not sure why. But....

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

So we've mentioned your psoriatic arthritis. That's not the end, though, is it, of the list? I know you've also got a back problem?

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

Oh, so that's a degenerative spine or lower spinal condition and something going on with the sacroiliac joint in S1, whatever it is, L5, something or other. But yeah, that's managed. That's fine [sighs]. Yeah.

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

I mean, when she says it's managed, a bit of disclosure here. Again, what people don't realise is Claire has a patch on her arm that people think it's a stop smoking patch, but no, what is it Claire?

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

It's a morphine patch. So I also have osteoarthritis in my right knee. So the morphine patch helps me manage the pain in my knee and my back.

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

So, yeah, as you can see, she's got quite a combination there. I mean, how do you feel they affect you on a daily basis?

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

I don't believe they do. But they probably do. Actually, I think it's actually... to be fair, it's not just about the pain with the arthritis. So in along with the arthritis, also, there's cognitive impairment, you know. So when I get tired, you know, completely, anything goes out of my brain. I do get very tired quite quickly. And I also, mmm, I don't know, what else is there? Can you think?

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

I can, yes.

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

Oh, word salad... words quite a lot of the times and will come out with very random words for very different things.

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

Yes, which I must say that being with me, obviously blind person, I do rely on verbal descriptions. So sometimes when I might ask Claire where something is, it can be really interesting, because she'll go, it's on the chair, kitchen table, a fridge? No, it's on the cooker. And whilst I would never wish to laugh at Claire, because I'm sure it must be really frustrating, it does have its humorous side.

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

It can be quite humorous, but it is also frustrating for me. So...

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

More your sort of physical impairments...

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

Okay, there's another one. Yes, there is, there's mental health as well. So I was diagnosed with depression when I was 21, I believe. Yes, it was 21. It was actually when I came out. I'm going to briefly skip over the coming out bit. But yeah, I was diagnosed with depression. And also more recently, anxiety has taken a dip. Well, no, it hasn't taken a dip, it's actually risen. And so the anxiety condition I also have has shown its ugly head, shall we say?

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

So. So in terms of your past episodes of mental ill health, I mean, how did it affect you? How bad did it get?

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

I was admitted to hospital on one occasion, I did try to take my own life on a couple of occasions. So one admission, for... how many days, was it 14 I think I stayed in hospital. Seeing you know, being allocated to CPNS community psychiatric nurse, having a psycholog - psychiatrist, having medication. Um, I mean, for the last.. so I have been on medication since I was 21. Up and down and there have been bouts that I've been worse than, you know, um, but more and so sorry, um, so I'm having a word salad moment. So recently my medication... so before we moved to Oxford, my medication, my stability, you know, was really, really good. I just finished my degree, my medication was reduced, like 50 milligrammes, so I'm on sertraline hydrochloride. That was reduced to the, you know, one of the lowest, you know, baselines it can go to, and with the hope that this summer I would come off of it. Unfortunately, due to COVID lockdown, being stuck in the house not just with Sarah, but...[laughter]

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

Thanks!

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

That's alright my love. So since March, and you know, end of March and not actually going out, and that, my anxiety has gone through the roof. So instead of coming off medication, I've had another anxiety med added, and was not a very good place for a few weeks.

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

I can confirm she wasn't.

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

And I still have my moments. And I'm still a snappy, nasty piece of work to Sarah sometimes. But that's because I can be because she's safe.

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

I think what's really interesting is that, obviously June lockdown. There's been several reports and surveys that have showed that the mental health of LGBT people has been adversely affected. And obviously for a lot of people, that would be to do with having to go back to family, who perhaps aren't supportive, etc. But I think what's equally true to remember is that in our case, you know, we are a couple, we're together, we generally get on fine. But even within that supportive environment, Claire has struggled, and you know, it has had an impact, hasn't it?

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

Yeah, I mean, I was speaking to a colleague the other day and we were actually saying, you know, it doesn't matter how well you get on with your spouse, you know, whoever you live with, you don't normally spend 24/7 for 5 months with them. You go to work, you go out, you do stuff with friends, you go, you know, do things separately. And although me and Sarah have done, you know, and we do do lots of stuff together, we don't, we're not together 24/7. So obviously, we are going to get on each other's nerves, slightly, you know, and that's just normal. It's just, you know, you know, but it does feel like at times, you're quite imprisoned.

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

We'll come on to family in a minute, because your experience as a family is, let's just say not the most positive, but we'll come on to that in a minute. But just to complete the picture in terms of disability, erm, there's another bracket of disability that you would come into, Clare?

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

Oh, yes, the wonderful terminology of neurodiversity, and dyslexia, why the hell does something like dyslexia get called dyslexia when it's so difficult to spell?

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

Absolutely[laughter]

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

Try being dyslexic, and saying it, dyslexia? It doesn't just roll off the tongue to a dyslexic person. Well, I've just said it a few times there, but it doesn't. And, yeah, I....

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

So tell us a bit about that. When were you diagnosed, how do you think it's affected you during your education?

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

Well, I was actually held back a year at school, we had ICA and whilst I was in primary school, so I was kept back. I have a twin brother. So that was quite difficult. He was... he went up his year, I wasn't, he was the smart one, I wasn't. I was told I was thick. Didn't have any test for dyslexia, didn't do any tests if they wanted to. They didn't do them. I was just told I was thick. I was slower than my brother. Um, so I didn't get tested all through school, I was just slow. Wasn't in great sets in school. Apart from maths, I was in the top set for maths. Not to think about it now, that was... Anyway. So yeah, I was in one of the bottom sets for English. And that affected quite a lot of my learning. I actually wasn't diagnosed with dyslexia until I was 40. That was when I went to college to do my access to social work. And I knew that I had difficulties and I knew that I had to get my GCSE English, at level C or above, to get into university. So I had to have this test to see what help I could get out, and what was available, really.

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

And that's, that's quite a common occurrence, sadly. Lots of people probably of a similar age to ourselves, Clare, were probably told they were thick at school and actually, no, they were dyslexic. So... however, that hasn't held you back, has it?

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

Well, it held me back in my early years, I suppose. You know, I think if it would have been diagnosed earlier, and I'd have got the help and support, and maybe you know, assistive technology that's available today, I may have you know, done things sooner. But no, it hasn't held me back. I got my degree at the University of Nottingham.

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

What what degree was that?

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

That's in social work. So um, yeah.

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

And you now work as a social worker here in Oxford?

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

I'm an Oxford social worker. I am indeed my first year has just gone past so... Fantastic. Yeah, really enjoy it.

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

Would you ever thought that, you know, 10 years ago, you'd be a graduate of the University of Nottingham, having done your first year of social work?

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

I was actually the only one out of my college year group that got into the University of Nottingham. I didn't think I was going to get in. But they saw something in me and I'm really pleased that they did because you know, I love it. I love doing the work that I do.

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

Erm, Claire's very good at underselling herself. Obviously I'm biased [laughter]. But having observed Claire working for the past few months from home, and having spoke to some of her colleagues, she is a fantastic social worker. Erm, she works with children and families. And I would just say, you are excellent.

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

Oh, thank you very much. I think you're a bit biased. However, I think you have to go through you know, in my experience, if you have gone through experiences, you can empathise and understand slightly better. So I think I've been through a few experiences in my lifetime to be able to, you know, not necessarily put myself in their shoes, but actually have a bit more empathy regarding situations, which actually makes me more approachable.

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

So, in terms of your family background, your LGBT identity. There's a lot to that. Perhaps you could talk us through a bit about that.

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

Okay, so I was brought up in Thetford that's in Norfolk. Already Norfolk, you know, known for its LGBT, you know, even now, awareness and support really. Sorry, I do "um" a lot. So, um, I was born 1973, and a twin, a youngest twin to a brother. You know, brought up with my mom and dad originally, then they split up when I was five. I've also recently remembered certain things from my past that was, whilst undergoing some counselling currently. I recall that my mother was actually mentally unwell and spent some time in a psychiatric unit herself. So growing up, we spent, you know, a fair bit of time with my grandparents, maternal grandparents, which was lovely because I adored them. Didn't see much of my dad. My dad was a bit of a... he would sometimes be there sometimes not. But when I did see him, you know, it was amazing. I was a bit of a daddy's girl, so I was more affected when they divorced than my brother. The only reason I didn't actually stay with him, I recall is because he burned my fish fingers. I mean... If he hadn't have burnt my fish fingers on a stay where I went a Pardon?! d spent some time with him ov r one weekend, then I would ha

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

Wow. e probably had a different pa h altogethe

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

I know. Yeah. Because in that day, we were actually asked who we would like to go and live with. And my brother said my Mum, and I said my Dad

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

What age were you at this stage?

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

I was five probably nearly six. So yeah, so upbringing. You know, it was mainly our mother, we didn't have a lot. Um, mainly things bought on the hock and, you know, secondhand stuff if you could get it, or donations. And we relied really on, on our grandparents to support us. So my brother was always the golden boy, the sun shone, where you don't know where it shone from. And if anything happened, if anything went wrong, it was what have you done now, Clare, it's your fault, Clare. And, you're stupid Clare. She would deny it, you know, but I know these things happened. You know, you don't make up childhood memories like that and remember them. So yeah...

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

An easy upbringing...

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

Not an easy upbringing. So I. from

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

So when you say kicked out, you were about the age of seven maybe, I thought my brother was gay. Always thought my brother was gay, didn't think about myself. don't know where this game i from, I was always teasing h m saying you like boys. You kn w. And would say that ho rible word, you know, begins wit a P, and ends in an F, would call him those things because t at's what we were used to grow ng up. You know, my mother, yo know, blatant racist. Yeah, so hen it came to 1994 and the wo derful lesbian kiss on Brooks de, if you haven't seen it, and you're too young to know about i, look it up. It's not horrific, but my mother thought it was, u, told me to turn that - I on't use the language that sh used, but turn that awful thi g off. And she would neve watch Brookside again. Then I knew I couldn't tell her how I as feeling. Yeah, and that was I believe I was 20 when that ca e out, and I came out when I w s 21, and was kicked out of m literally, what, given a day, a weekend...

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

Yeah, ask to go, you know.

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

Where did you go?

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

So best friend Kathy helped me move all my stuff out. Most of my stuff was stored in her loft for absolutely ages. I sofa surfed for a bit, and then I ended up living with my dad.

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

Hmm.

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

And he was so proud of me, and embraced my gayness and even announced at his work. He worked in a hotel in town, and he announced his daughter was gay and he loved her and he couldn't be prouder of her. So yeah, word soon got around town that Clare was gay.

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

I mean, you've mentioned your brother, your brother is gay.

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

Oh, my brother. He, um, about two or three years after I came out, he came out, and phoned me up and told me he was bisexual. I disagreed with him. And he went okay, but I can't tell Mum. Mmm, okay. Don't tell her then. Um, he's always said he's bisexual, but he's always been with guys ever since, is now married to a guy, I believe. She has accepted him. She's even been to his wedding. I have not had contact with her for 25 plus years.

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

Mm, mmm. And you haven't had contact with your brother neither, have you?

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

No, which, you know, it's hard, but it's, it's, um...

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

What was amazing is your dad was at our wedding in 2017.

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

He was. And he was a blubbering wreck. He was sobbing, wasn't he...

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

He was, big time!

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

He was, he was so proud of both of us. He loved you, Sarah, um, you know, and he always wanted to see me get married. And, you know, his wish came true. And unfortunately, a year later, he died. But, you know, at least he saw his daughter get married, you know?

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

Indeed. So going back to your sort of early memories, obviously, your brother was always, you always knew he was gay. But what about you and your own understanding of your sexuality?

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

I was always very, very tomboyish.

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

Mm hmm.

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

Very tomboyish. I always wanted to be a boy. I always grew up thinking, I'm a boy. And when my breast started to develop at the age of nine, I was a quite early starter, through, you know, periods and breast development and stuff, I hunched over and tried to hide them. I wanted to be a boy, I was adamant I wanted to be a boy. And it wasn't till I was about, I suppose 14,15, I accepted I wasn't. And actually, I fancied girls.

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

And I didn't have to be a boy to fancy girls.

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

There's a lot of talk these days about the whole trans discussion that, you know, that lesbians aren't allowed to be tomboys, and that there'll be lots of people now who've transitioned to be trans men who are just sort of tomboy lesbians. Do you have a view, a comment on that?

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

You can't make someone trans if they're not trans. You know, at the end of the day, you've just got to find where you are yourself. And it doesn't matter how much stuff is on telly, how much stuff is in the media, you are not going to make somebody trans, end of.

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

I mean, you did say that, you know, you felt through your puberty that you wanted to be a boy.

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

Yeah, but you should be allowed, as any child should be allowed to express, and explore how they feel. And if it comes to the end, and it's like, hold on a minute, yes, I definitely am a boy, then that should be explored further. But I was never, you know, I wanted to be a boy. That's the difference. It wasn't, I am a boy. I wanted to be a boy. So I think that's the difference, is I wanted to be able to do the things boys did. I played football religiously, I wanted to be one of those boys. I liked rugby, I wanted to be one of the boys. So that's different to, you know, being born in the wrong gender.

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

Mmm.

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

Um, you know, it was just that when I was growing up, as a girl, it was frowned upon if a girl plays football, if a girl plays rugby, if a girl does climbing the trees. It was more frowned upon than it is now. So I think it's just about allowing a child to express who they think they are, who they feel they are. And if they're trans, they're trans. They will find a way, you know, nobody else is going to tell anybody, in my opinion.

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

So you've mentioned that, you know, when you came out, you were kicked out? It's probably not a coincidence that you mentioned earlier, your mental health ill health episodes being in hospital, it was probably around the same time.

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

Yes, it was. So...

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

Do you think there's a link?

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

Oh, yes. So I think there's a lot of grief and loss stuff going on there. You know, I've lost the life and the you know, the house and the upbringing and everything else and what I've been used to, you know, I was going through lots of stages of change within my life. So there's no, you know, I didn't even know if I could speak to my grandparents because, you know, what would they say? And I know, my mother tried to turn my grandparents against me. They didn't succeed, or she didn't succeed. But, you know, that was always a fear because I was always, you know, I spent so much time with especially my granddad who I completely, you know, idolised. And, you know, it was like, if I was not going to be able to speak to him again, what would I do?

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

Mmmm.

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

So, yeah, that was tough.

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

How was it with your...I mean, did you have lots of friends then, did you have to make new friends?

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

So I walked down the high street in Thetford, Thetford's very tiny, guys. So walking down the high street, and this girl that actually was one of my best friends at school, came up to me and tried to hit me, told me I was vile.

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

Just because she'd found out you were gay?

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

She'd found out from my mother that I was gay. And told me never to speak to her again.

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

Wow.

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

Yeah, so you know, that was tough. I was still living in this town. That was how people, a lot of people perceived people that were gay. So it wasn't great. So no, there wasn't any support.

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

I'm just gonna say I'm guessing there was no real LGBT youth groups, or support...

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

Nothing. If you wanted stuff, it was in Cambridge, Cambridge or Norwich. So that was quite, you know.

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

It's quite a trek.

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

If you know, Norfolk, it spread out, never any easy routes to anywhere, it's, you know, so yeah.

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

So, sort of moving ahead, moving into sort of life from that point. I mean, obviously at that stage, you'd come out, your arthritis, and everything else was probably playing a bigger picture. I mean, how do you feel that your being gay and being disabled has interacted with each other? If you feel they have at all?

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

I know my mental health definitely has been impacted by being gay, by not having, I suppose, a support network that, you know, ordinarily, one would have growing up. So, you know, that's, that did have an impact. With regards to my physical health, I don't, you know, for me, I don't see any difference, really. But I suppose because I'm not on the LGBT scene. You know, because I'm older it...yeah, I think if I was younger, maybe it would. But I think, you know, I don't have to be friends with people just because they're gay. I have friends that are just friends.

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

I mean, do you feel that...so how do you feel the inclusion within the separate scenes is of the other in terms of, you know, being disabled and being LGBT, and vice versa?

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

I remember, I remember when I came out, and there were some clubs and stuff, mainly in London and whatnot, that you couldn't get in if you didn't look gay.

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

Really? How did they define that then?

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

So, you know, it would be like, you know, you had to basically be a butch lesbian to get into a club. And actually, not everybody is a so called butch lesbian. You know, there were some clubs that you would have to snog another woman on the doorstep to be able to show that you are gay. I hope things have improved. I haven't heard things like that happening more recently. But you know, growing up was pretty tough. It's like, hold on a minute, I'm identifying as this.

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

Mm hmm.

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

Why do I have to prove it to you as well? You know, you are supposed to be my community.

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

Mmm.

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

So that's what, that was a difficult....

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

Have you ever felt that sort of being gay in a disability environment, or being disabled in the LGBT environment has been a barrier or an issue?

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

I haven't, myself -

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

Okay.

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

- actually, you know, come across any of those things. The problem comes, I suppose, when you go to a doctor's, you go to a hospital, and they ask you, are you married, and you say you are married. You say yes. Because I am married, I'm married to you, Sarah. And they ask, what's his name? That's the, you know, that's the main thing that I find is like...

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

How have you found it... obviously, you started work at the County Council a year ago, took up your social work job. A lot of people find it difficult being themselves in work, you know, making new friends, new colleagues. How have you found that?

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

I've just been very open and it's like, you either like it or you don't. Um, as a social work - work in a social work environment, I think people are a lot more open. Some aren't. Not, you know, not everybody is, but I think, you know, the majority of people that you work with are open to alternative, if you like, and I find everybody really accommodating, or if - they have been to my face, whether they are or not, I don't know. But I've, you know, I've been really more than happy, and I've also joined the LGBT network, you know, within the Council, which you know, it's been really useful, met some great people.

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

Out. Obviously, as we've said earlier, you have these invisible disabilities. To look at you you certainly wouldn't know you have the arthritis, mental health issues, dyslexia. How do you feel that's impacted on your, your work environment, your work context?

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

OK, so I do have a ergonomic chair, proper, nice, funky dooby dooby chair, to... So, you know, so obviously, I'm the only one that's allowed to sit in that chair. So no hotdesking for me, which is actually pretty much of a blessing [laughter]. So, you know, obviously, because of that, people realise that there's something going on. Dyslexia, I have the, you know, right equipment for my computers, etc. Um, which is really, really useful. And I've lost the second part of the question.

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

That's fine.

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

That would be part of the dyslexia.

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

That'll be part of the dyslexia.

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

Or maybe it's the psoriatic arthropathy.

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

Maybe. Erm, I think it was just more of that whole sense of invisible disabilities, because for me, I know that obviously the past few weeks, you have had this worsening of anxiety. And I think it's quite surprised some of your colleagues, hasn't it? The people on the outside thought, well you seem fine, happy cheery...

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

I have always put on this very brave front, and can smile through adversity. And many people have never been allowed to see the non smiling Claire. And it hasn't, until recently, when it actually came to breaking point, that I had to allow some people to see me in this non smiling Clare format, if you like,

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

I think it's been quite a surprise for some people, hasn't it?

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

It has been, well, it's been a surprise for myself, let alone other people. So yeah, it has been a surprise. But you know, I think it's been refreshing because they have been so supportive. And I've not had that support before.

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

And whilst obviously we would never wish mental ill health on anybody, it's been tricky for me as obviously, Claire's wife to try and support her, I think what's been really good is that your colleagues, your managers have have learned from this.

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

I think they've definitely learned from it because they probably didn't actually expect it from me. But I think people, you know, listening to this, it's, it's nothing to be ashamed of, if you are struggling at work, because of anxiety, because of any other mental health condition. Please speak up. If that organisation, you know, your managers aren't treating you as they should, there will be other avenues to follow. And, you know, there will be disability advisors, there will be people out there that can support you within the work remit. So I would say, speak up. You know, it was one of the best things that I've done.

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

I think there is still a lot of sort of taboo and stigma around mental health generally and in the workplace. But I think if we've all learned one thing from this coronavirus pandemic, it's that, you know, a lot of us, either whether we had mental health issues before or not, you know, it's been tough for a lot of people for a lot of reasons. So yeah, I would just echo that point that if that's something you have struggle with, then do reach out for support, whether it's from friends, from family, professional organisations, just do it. Erm, so I guess the other question that's burning on everybody's lips as they're listening to this podcast....

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

The one that I'm going to get bored with and go oh...

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

So come on Claire, what's it like being married to a blind trans woman?

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

Okay, so I'm gonna completely dismiss the trans bit, because you are a woman with a trans history. You are a woman, you are a lesbian. I am a lesbian. We are women that are married to one another. So please skip that bit.

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

Okay, that's, that's you, that's you told people What about married to a blind woman then?

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

So I think that's the... that is the main thing for me, okay? So, being married to a blind woman you do have to do more. It's like okay, going in going in this is gonna sound - this is a bit of a pun, but you know, you don't go into a relationship, anybody doesn't go into a relationship with their eyes completely open. Sorry, Sarah! But you know, you don't know the impact of living with someone who is blind, who's completely blind, until you do it. And I've learned loads. You know, Sarah is very, very capable. She thinks she's more capable than she is at time. So I do end up picking up after her, and doing more than you know, maybe I would like to at times, but you know, we get on, we do stuff, we- look, we go gigging, we go cycling together. Yeah, I'm not doing running with you. That's not happy. Holidays together. We go out shopping together... when... before Coronavirus. We do normal stuff, we go out eating meals together. So it doesn't... you get used to having a blind wife.

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

In fact, I think, um, Clare sometimes forget I'm blind.

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

Yeah, I do. I go [inaudible]'s just over there.

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

Or she'll say, oh, it's the blue such and such.

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

Yeah, I do forget. It's just because Sarah is pretty capable, and she just gets on with life, a bit like me, we just have a laugh and get on, really.

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

We do. We definitely do. So, obviously, thanks very much for giving up your time

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

I have't finished yet.

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

Is there anything else, Clare, you'd want to say to other LGBT people, disabled people, just anything more generally, in terms of these intersecting identities, or just generally on those issues?

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

I think just be kind to yourself. If you are in one of the sections, and in LGBT, reach out, you know, we've gone through enough, LGBTQ+ community, we should be supporting each other, not against each other. And then, you know, especially to my, you know, trans brothers and sisters out there, I think we need to really be supporting them at this moment in time, especially with the hate that is out there. It's invalid. And, you know, that's all I have to say on the matter at the moment, thank you.

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

Well, Clare, it's been an absolute pleasure. This was a bit risky, interviewing my wife for the podcast. Luckily, she hasn't dished too much dirt.

Clare Stephenson-Hunter:

I haven't sworn either.

Sarah Stephenson-Hunter:

But yeah, thanks a lot Clare, thanks a lot. So there you go. Wasn't that quite an interview, don't we make quite a double act? I hope you didn't feel that was too self indulgent. It was actually Claire who volunteered to do an interview. She's certainly much less accustomed to doing these things than I am. But I felt it was actually really important to hear from her. As I've said earlier, she she has a very interesting and powerful story to tell. And I really do thank her for being vulnerable, to tell that story. And I think that there's a lot on there that probably those of you listening can learn a lot in terms of the different experiences, which is what this podcast is all about. So that's the end of this episode. There'll be another one coming soon. Take care, and I'll be back. So cheers for now. Bye.