Agency for Change : A Podcast from KidGlov

Changemakers Cristina Amigoni and Alex Cullimore, Siamo

• KidGlov • Season 1 • Episode 276

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0:00 | 35:29

What happens when we stop trying to be less human at work—and start leaning into who we really are?

In this episode of Agency for Change, Lyn welcomes back Alex Cullimore and Cristina Amigoni, co-founders of Siamo, to talk about their new bestselling book, The Authenticity Upgrade. Together, they explore why so many workplace challenges are actually human challenges, and how authenticity can unlock energy, connection, and better outcomes for individuals and organizations alike.

Alex and Cristina share insights from the book, discuss the importance of self-awareness in leadership, reflect on how AI and rapid change are reshaping the workplace, and explain how their new public workshops are helping bring more humanity into organizations everywhere.

If you’ve ever felt exhausted by “professional armor” or wondered how to show up more fully at work, this conversation is for you.

Connect with Alex, Cristina, and Siamo at: 

·       Website – https://www.wearesiamo.com/

·       LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/company/wearesiamo/

·       Get the Book, The Authenticity Upgrade: https://www.wearesiamo.com/authenticityupgrade

·       Listen to the podcast, Uncover the Human: https://www.wearesiamo.com/our-podcast

Connect with Alex, Cristina, and Siamo at: 

·       Website – https://www.wearesiamo.com/

·       LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/company/wearesiamo/

·       Get the Book, The Authenticity Upgrade: https://www.wearesiamo.com/authenticityupgrade

·       Listen to the podcast, Uncover the Human: https://www.wearesiamo.com/our-podcast


Cristina Amigoni: 0:01

Every workplace issue comes back to being a human opportunity.

Alex Cullimore: 0:06

When we forget to consider the human, we lose access to the power and are left with the baggage.

Announcer: 0:13

Welcome to Agency for Change, a podcast from KidGlov that brings you the stories of change makers who are actively working to improve our communities. In every episode, we'll meet with people who are making a lasting impact in the places we call homes.

Lyn Wineman: 0:41

This is Lyn Wineman, president and chief strategist at Kid Glove. And today I am thrilled to welcome back my friends Cristina Amigoni and Alex Cullimore of Siamo. So since their last visit to the podcast, which was in 2022, these two have been very busy. Most notably, they just released their new book, The Authenticity Upgrade, which has already become a bestseller. It's chock full of good information. I'm excited to dive into their latest insights, the movement they're championing, and the impact they're making. Alex and Cristina, welcome to the podcast. 

Alex Cullimore: 1:29

Thanks so much for having us again.

Lyn Wineman: 1:30

You guys, when I woke up this morning and saw you on my schedule, I have been so excited about this all day long because I just don't talk to the two of you enough, and you're so much fun. How about that? 

Cristina Amigoni: 1:48

Yeah, I was pretty excited about today. We get to talk to Lyn.

Lyn Wineman: 1:54

I tell you, and we put it right at the end of the day. So I've been looking forward to it all day long. But you joined us on the podcast. I looked it up back in the summer of 2022. So it's been a few years. For those who maybe missed that episode and haven't listened to every single one. I know there's a few people out there. Can you start by telling us a bit about Siamo and the work that you're doing?

Alex Cullimore: 2:25

Sure. Yeah. So Siamo is the company that we started together. We had both been at a startup where we've met each other and started to realize hey, there's a real need for extra humanity at work. And by extra, I mean any amount of humanity at work.

And we knew because we just kept seeing like great people who would get feel burnt out or feel like they didn't have a voice and feel like they weren't given a say. And we knew we wanted to make a difference there. We that we wanted that to be different for our own experience, we wanted that to be better for other people. And we knew that the place to start had to be leadership. And so we wanted to dive into how do you help leaders become more human, help them understand their own humanity as well as the humanity of the people they're leading? And how do you turn that into your business advantage? Since we all have just humans running businesses, using businesses, using the products and services of businesses. It's all human somewhere along the chain. So, how do you play to that and make sure it's not the thing that is tripping you up?

Lyn Wineman: 3:25

I love that description. You know, it's so crazy to me that I when I think back to being in school and taking my business classes and leadership classes and journalism classes, nobody ever talked about being human. As a matter of fact, I think I was taught to be less human. And now as I get older, like and more wise, I think. I'm returning to being more human. Does it feel weird that you have to teach people to be more human when that's our that's our nature theoretically?

Cristina Amigoni: 4:03

It does feel weird. I think that's what we resisted maybe at the beginning was the fact that it seemed like we were pointing out obvious stuff. And like if it why is this not obvious? Why do we have to talk about listening? Why do we have to talk about remembering that there's humans that you're interacting with? And then we kind of went past that resistance and tried it out and saw, like, well, maybe if we point it out, we can breed more humanity in the workplace, and it actually worked.

Lyn Wineman: 4:32

I love that. You know, what I love about the two of you is I think that this idea of bringing humanity into the workplace and teaching it, I think it comes so naturally to you, right? Like it's second nature, and so you're like, this seems so obvious, but to others, it's like, oh yeah, I'm really glad that you told me that. And I feel like that you've come in and done engagements for KidGlov, and I've attended some of your coaching sessions, and it's like, oh yeah, that is the things that you think are obvious, I think, for others are really important lessons, and sometimes maybe they're reminders, but they're important reminders because I think a lot of that stuff I think gets somehow along the way, like pulled out of you, beaten out of you, scared out of you, and you have to come back to it, which is interesting. So I wanted to have you guys back because you just launched this fabulous book. I've been reading my online copy. I can't wait for my print copy to get here. But tell us a bit about the book, which I have to brag on you because you just launched it and it's already an Amazon bestseller.

Cristina Amigoni: 5:50

Yes. Uh so yeah, the book, you know, and you know how it what it's like to write a book. 

Lyn Wineman: 5:57

It's not an easy task. So many words. It's not an easy task, so many words.

Cristina Amigoni: 6:02

Uh, but the book, uh, when we started the process, actually, we knew we wanted to write a book. We didn't really know what the book was about, but we knew what the book was about. 

Lyn Wineman: 6:14

I can relate to that too, Cristina. Like, I knew my book was gonna be about marketing, but it took me a minute to get to the angle, right?

Alex Cullimore: 6:21

Yes, yeah. Finding that angle did take us a while because we started the same idea. We're like, well, we want it to be about what we do with the company, and what we do as a company is do human work. And it turns out there's a lot you can say about humans. 

Lyn Wineman: 6:34

I love it. Well, the book is called The Authenticity Upgrade. So, what are some of the aspects of that upgrade?

Cristina Amigoni: 6:46

Well, we learned in the writing process that there's a huge part of it that it's self-reflection and self-growth. And self-authenticity. And without that piece, you can't really move on to relationships, group dynamics, organizational well-being, or even organizational structures and strategy. And so the upgrading authenticity is first we need to understand who we are in ourselves as individual. And we have to figure out how do we show up more as our true selves, not as our armors and shoulds and masks and what business school tells us we should do, and all these things. And then how do we create the same space for others to show up as themselves? And as a company, on our podcast that you've been on as a guest, like the theme of you start with understanding authenticity and creating that to then be able to be successful in all the other aspects is something that we came back to and we're constantly coming back to. It's like you can have all these models, all these frameworks, all these strategies, all these plans, but until humans can actually be humans and their authentic selves, none of the rest works. It it's just paper, it's just theory and ideas.

Lyn Wineman: 8:07

I love that you said that. Can I share authentically a semi-embarrassing leadership story where I had an aha moment that goes back exactly to what you are speaking about not too long ago. I had to have dental surgery, right? Like, first of all, when you just say those words dental surgery, right? Yes, uh, people are listening to this and not seeing your face, Cristina. But when they told me I had to have dental surgery, I was horrified, right? But I was also in pain. So when I called and the office said they could get me in the very next afternoon because they had a cancellation, I tried to figure out how to make that work. And so I looked at my schedule and I said, okay, the only way I can make this work is if I drive there, I take two meetings in the parking lot, I cut the second meeting short, and then I go in and have the surgery, right? That that was my great plan. You guys are laughing because you already know how this is going to go. I took the first meeting, I took the second meeting. The second meeting, I had to say, you guys, I'm really sorry. I'm like in the parking lot and we got to cut this meeting in half. We really needed the whole hour for the meeting, not the 30 minutes. I walked into the lobby of the dental office, just thinking, I'm disappointed in myself for how I showed up in this meeting. What is wrong with me? Right? Like, what am I? I meditated this morning, I journaled, like I planned everything out, I knew what I wanted to talk about. But as I had the time to sit in the chair and really think about it, it was like, well, how could I possibly show up well? I'm in a parking lot, freaked out about having dental surgery, and I'm in pain. Like just because you can do something doesn't mean that you should. And as I think back, all of the people that I met with would have gladly given me the grace of another day so that I could do what I needed to do. But that's like being human versus trying to be some kind of a robot, right? 

Alex Cullimore: 10:22

That's a really great story. And it's a very common experience, I think, for people to have that feeling of I know what my capacity is in the best days. And then we have this kind of imagined idea that we can keep that best capacity all the time, no matter what. And we kind of hold ourselves to that standard and believe, oh, I'm failing if I can't get to that. Right. If we're not giving ourselves a little bit of that fairness of exactly what you're saying. Like I'm currently experiencing jaw pain and waiting in the parking lot to go get this fixed. Something that makes everybody clench their jaw.

How can we possibly show up well? And oftentimes it's easier to see that in other people. If somebody else was in the parking lot and about to go to dental surgery and they were like, I'm sorry, I got this scheduled last minute, I'm in pain. We all would be like, oh, absolutely. Please take the time. Like, give give yourself the moment. We've all been there, et cetera, et cetera. And somehow that mirror just doesn't come around. We don't believe that we can give that to ourselves so often. And that's why we like Cristina said, we really focused on self in this this book originally because of exactly that. You can't do anything if you don't start from self.

Lyn Wineman: 11:30

I love that. I love that because since then I have been saying, okay, I've got to give myself a little bit of grace, but also the people I'm meeting with, I owe it to them to also not come into the arena distracted and angry and fearful, right? And you know, I think I'm lucky that I met with people that I'm close enough to that I don't think it damaged our relationships for me being a little bit grouchy and short that day. But, you know, it's something that I will have to work on. So, all right, back to the book. Self-reflection is a big part of it. Why is this book so important right now, at this point in time, in what's going on in the workplace?

Alex Cullimore: 12:20

Where to begin. I think that one thing that we whenever we go to conferences and wherever we go to we talk about one of the things we usually lead with is talking about Siamo being a starting place where we wanted to bring humanity to the workplace. And most of the time we get the reaction, oh wow, good, thank goodness, somebody's gotta do it. And so there is this kind of pervasive feeling of oh, this is necessary. And I think that we really especially wanted to hit this right now because AI is looming over everybody's head. We're all worried about what that means, we're all worried about how this is going to affect the humans, is it gonna replace the humans? How are we going to handle this? And some companies are already doing it terribly, and some companies are already doing it okay. And how do we figure out how to navigate this like very large-scale change? It's like when we all went to the pandemic, and no matter what industry you're in, you were impacted somehow, then you get to something like AI, and it doesn't really matter what industry you're in, we're all kind of figuring this out together in this big moment of change in something that has been touted as is this going to replace humans? And that's scary. And that's a huge moment for we really need to focus on where the humans are, how the humans are gonna interact with this and whether we're doing the right things by humans.

Lyn Wineman: 13:36

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I, Alex, I believe that AI can be a great tool, but I also believe I was on LinkedIn the other day, one of my favorite social media channels as a business person, but I was on and I was just reading post after post after post. And I was like, these are all written by AI. I don't even want to read them anymore. I believe there's gonna be a backlash of people who really are looking for that angle of authenticity. What do you think? 

Cristina Amigoni: 14:32

We go along with general feelings. Well, part of it is also because we tend to see things a little bit ahead of the data. Uh, and so we kind of go with our hunches and our feelings, and then we're like, this is this is gonna happen, this is gonna happen, this is gonna happen. And people are like, nah, it's not, and then it happens. And so I always tell Alex, and like, if I could only get paid to fortune tell, and people believed me the first time, we could spare a lot of pain in the middle. I love that. So that's also where I'm there is data out there, but also waiting for the data, it's too late. You just look at humans, you look at how they they're showing up, you just look at the general feeling of despair that's your the energy that you're in. And that's when you're like, this can't continue, it's not sustainable. Something needs to change, you know. And we saw that with the pandemic, there was almost like a pendulum that swung to more humanity because we had to, you know, work from home and think of the human the health, the well-being of the humans first, for ourselves and for everybody else. Like you companies were forced to it, we were all forced to do it in one way or another. And then it's pretty alarming how fast the pendulum is swinging back to mass layoffs, AI replacing jobs, which is actually not gonna work because the strategy behind it is mostly missing, and just this kind of dehumanization of things, uh, whether it's RTO, whether it's AI, whether it's whatever it's going on. But it's like, do we forget what just happened? A few years ago. Like, this is not a hundred years ago we're talking about. It was literally just a few years ago.

Alex Cullimore: 16:24

We I did just see a study actually recently that they tried to set up a bunch of different AI, the common AI um large language models, and set them on some common jobs and some common contractor tasks. And I believe the results came back that they could do about three percent of the jobs, the best models. And ChatGPT was not even the one that did like the three, the three percent. That one's the common one, yes, but that was actually like a 2.5 or something. I don't know how they measured this. And I'm sure by the time like even we finish this conversation, they'll have done some things to improve some of the data for everybody. But it is really shocking how little it can actually do of what we believe that it is, or what some people anyway believe is going to it can replace all these things. It can't. And I think your experience is exactly why that's not gonna happen, Lyn, because we're gonna see these things and we're gonna say, Oh, this just doesn't feel human. And you know, I just I don't really care if like a bot has given me this, and I don't like eh, well, that's just not as interesting. And it's not even something we're gonna do. Like sometimes we'll do it purposefully, but I think more than that, it's gonna be that feeling that you had of, oh, well, yeah, that just doesn't feel that authentic, and you know, I don't I don't really need to read it because I don't really care what a bot has to say about this. And and I'll ask a bot if I have a question, but I'm not just gonna digest social media content that's from a bot.

Lyn Wineman: 17:37

I agree with you a hundred percent. So, Alex and Cristina, what's one insight from each of you? One insight people will find when they read the book. I know, how do you pick just one? Because you've got a lot of pages of great insights, but give us some key takeaways.

Cristina Amigoni: 18:00

I think the one that comes to mind, and yeah, it's one of many, but the one that comes to mind, it's related to something we were talking about earlier, which is this the self-piece. And within the self piece, this the self-awareness part of that, I found that it's one of those things like I knew it, we talk, we've talked about it, we do a lot of work around it with people, but having to write it out, it helped me really narrow it to if you don't have self-awareness as a human and especially as a leader, you might as well not be doing anything. Everything else becomes way more difficult. You know, like the structure, the system, the teams, everything you're trying to do really doesn't get the outcomes that we're desiring if we don't have that self-awareness of who am I? How am I showing up? How are people relating to me? It's that mirror moment of like you're constantly having to look into the mirror and having the courage to do something about what you see.

Lyn Wineman: 19:08

Yeah. What is a good way to look into that mirror, right? Like, I know I talk to my mirror every morning and it doesn't always talk back to me, right? Or sometimes, you know, I'll have my team together and I'll be like, I wish I really knew what they were thinking. And I think my team and I have been together for a while. I think for the most part, they're pretty honest with me. But you know, how how do you get that good feedback? Can you just ask for it and expect it, or is there a better way?

Alex Cullimore: 19:42

I think that you know, not to sound frustrating right out the bat, but it really depends. Yeah, it's the how how you're feeling currently is going to be a huge point of how you're going to be able to look into a mirror, right? Like you you've talked about like with your dental surgery story, you had journaled, you had meditated, but it was not necessarily the day for that. It's not that you didn't get something out of that, but there's other influences that are going to stop you on that. And I think that those can be incredibly powerful practices. Those are great places to start. Anything that's like mindfulness based where you can better get to know your own mind and start to understand your general thought patterns, super helpful. Journaling, meditating. And if that starts to feel like it's walking you in circles because you've found the circle of your mind that you can't quite challenge, then it's really helpful to get other people involved. And so that's having conversations with friends, having more elaborate, more professional conversations with a coach or a therapist. Maybe it's getting somebody in who can challenge some of those circles for you and help you cautiously approach some of those blocks that you might feel. And when it comes to the, I think the group stuff, I love your idea of just asking for feedback. And I think that sometimes that's going to depend on how the person you're asking for feels and how much they're able to and how much safety you've given them to do so or they feel at that moment. And it's there's a thousand great ways to do it that all minorly depend on the context of how we are currently doing it.

Lyn Wineman: 21:04

Alex, I appreciate that. It's such a great answer because it's a very human answer, right? And I think that if you ask the people around you, you know, to reflect on things you could do better, if they don't have any advice, I think that's probably an answer in and of itself. It does not mean you're perfect, right?

None of us are perfect, but it does not mean you're perfect. All right. I love that. So I know you guys have put a lot of time into the book. And once again, congratulations on all the success you've had. But I know you haven't stopped there. You are, I know you've got some workshops coming up, you've got some different things going on. Tell me more about what's all in this Siamo universe.

Alex Cullimore: 21:50

That's a very exciting kind of time. We’ve done a lot of this internal to organization works where we get to do with, we get to work with teams, which is always great. Like you get to work with all the people that are already working with each other, and that's really fun. And we've that's where most of our effort has gone. And what we're shifting to including in our offerings now is taking these learnings more publicly. So taking these to the place where people can join just individually from different companies, get to A, meet a bunch of people, but also learn all these skills so they can take them back one by one. Then you don't have to, you know, maybe it's the easier on the easier on the budget line, but also a good way to meet some other people and have a different exposure to these ideas and to more human ways of working with a bunch of other people that are similarly minded that are great, great networking opportunities, and bring all that back to your company. So now we're spreading out from just the within a company to what if lots of companies can benefit from this at once.

Lyn Wineman: 22:43

I really love that. I mean, it's all about access right now, right? And there's a lot of people who maybe don't have the decision-making power or the budget to go, hey, I want to bring Siamo in for a year-long full engagement, although I will tell you it will be worth every penny. But sometimes it's easier to start with that smaller budget and get a taste and get to know the two of you. Like what I love about the two of you teaching and coaching is that Alex, you bring the humor. And for people who don't know it, I know you have this comedian background. And Cristina, you bring, I talk about Working Genius a lot. So this audience is pretty familiar with Working Genius, but you bring that discernment enablement enablement, which you know, helping people, but also just having that real vision. The people I know who have that genius of discernment, it's like they do somehow have a crystal ball. They know how to just get everything right. And I think the two of you as a team, and I know you have a bigger team too, and I love some of the folks that are on your team. But I think you bring this nice combination of skills into the workshop world as well.

So, how can people find out more? Get uh feel for your workshop schedules, find out more about the book, just find out more about the two of you and what you do at Siamo. Where's the best place for them to find this info?

Cristina Amigoni: 24:21

Well, they can find out, we are pretty active on LinkedIn, so that's a good place to start with.

Lyn Wineman: 24:27

And I think you do have human, human created content, not AI creating. 

Cristina Amigoni: 24:39

Yes. So LinkedIn is a good place to connect directly with us, and also our website, so we are Siamo.com, our book, The Authenticity Upgrade. We also have a podcast that Lyn, you've been on. It's called Uncover the Human. Uh, any other places, Alex?

Alex Cullimore: 24:59

I think that's the best way of putting it. Our website does have a lot of information, but we are constantly finding new ways to kind of change up our offerings and do those. So the most up-to-date is always going to be LinkedIn. I think we have we have the best, easiest access to what's currently going on, as well as, of course, our mailing list, which is you can get through to the website on that. But that's that's a great place to find out uh what else is coming up. But I think LinkedIn is it gives you the most up-to-date stuff, and it's just where we throw some of our personalities at it.

Lyn Wineman: 25:27

I like it. We'll get all of those links in the show notes of this episode as well. Now, I want to ask you a little bit about your brand because you know I like to talk about branding. My book, Untangling Spaghetti, is about branding. We've talked about this before, but I think the name Siamo is so interesting and so unique. And you're in a space where there's a lot of boring names, to be really honest with you. Um is that okay to say? I guess it's my podcast. I can say what I want.

Cristina Amigoni: 26:01

We had a lot of boring names before we landed on Siamo.

Lyn Wineman: 26:05

Okay, all right. Well, tell me more. Tell me more about how you landed on Siamo and what it means.

Cristina Amigoni: 26:16

So part of the, we knew from the beginning, which it's interesting when we do our own audit of like, are we still the same vision and same mission and still core values? And we're still following those and they still resonate. Uh the the big part that we wanted to focus on was the we, and the existing. And so we kept kind of playing around with words that included we and are. And so one uh I remember one morning, I I was barely awake. I was still in bed, and I kept thinking, you know, like, okay, there's gotta be some other words. We are, we are, we are, we are. And then I thought about like, what about in Italian? It would be Siamo. And that's when I texted Alex at some ungodly hour in the morning. And I was like, I think I found our name. It's like it's we are, we exist. It's the we and the the humanity of existing.

Alex Cullimore: 27:14

That was what it like we we'd gone back and forth. There were things we liked. We'd we've gotten close to choosing a couple, and then when you said that, we were like, Yep, that's it. Nope, put that on the labels, let's go.

Lyn Wineman: 27:24

I love it. I'm gonna tell you, it doesn't always happen that way. You know, people that we work with, they kind of want the skies to open and the beams of light to come down and angels to sing and go, this is the one. It doesn't often happen that way, but for you it did. So that must have been a stroke of genius or stroke of luck, whatever it was. It's such a great name, and I love it. So, one more time. I know you've given us a little bit of a touch of what we can find in the book, but what advice would you give to our listeners who want to bring more of that intentional humanity into their workforce?

Alex Cullimore: 28:06

I'd offer a couple of things. First, when we talked about authenticity in the book, we talk about it being the what allows you to have the most energy in life. So if you're in an authentic space, you're not holding all of this armor and acting like somebody that you aren't and having that mask up of being performing something that isn't you. And so authenticity can end up being your energy retriever. It's where you can find the most actual access to who and how you can best show up to the space, to the world. And that energy is an incredibly important thing to remember. It's easy to forget, and it's really important to remember because of that, for exactly the same reason as you, your story of the dental surgery, Lyn. There's just times where your energy is not going to quite be there, or there's just things that just are a little off or feel like they should be different. And if we can allow ourselves to know that and know when we're off, know how to correct those things, getting that energy back is, in our view, the way to get back to your potential and to be able to access your full potential so you can have all the energy to deliver to what you would like to deliver it to.

Lyn Wineman: 29:09

Wow, that's amazing. Cristina, what would you like to add to that?

Cristina Amigoni: 29:14

Well, to take that, like once you figure out for yourself the authenticity piece, if you can create the space for everybody else to bring their own authenticity and their own authentic self, now you're creating an unstoppable force because everybody, you know, all the blocks and all the things that become friction against human nature then are no longer there, or at least they're greatly reduced. And it is quite amazing to see the shift in people once they realize, like, oh wait, you're accepting me as me. It's okay for me to not be like the person next to me. Yeah, okay. Well, great. Then I'm gonna do this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this. 

Lyn Wineman: 29:57

You know, as you're talking, both of you are talking about authenticity. I actually feel it physically, like I feel like a weight lifting off my shoulders. And I don't know if you ever have anybody say this, but I feel my brain relax a little bit, right? And I think that's when great ideas can come. And I think that when you have all that armor on, when you have the helmet on, you can't hear or see other people very well, can you? 

Alex Cullimore: 30:30

Yeah. Cool. Yeah, that's why those mindfulness and and practice are really important because exactly that when that feeling is the is where you know you start to you're getting on the right path. When you start to know, like, oh, I I feel some of that levity. I feel a little bit less like I'm just carrying a weight.

Lyn Wineman: 30:45

All right. So my next question are the two of you feeling like light and vulnerable and creative at the moment? Because I'm gonna ask you my favorite question. Probably by asking it that way. 

The last time you were on, you both answered this question. And that is, I would like to get an authentic quote from each of you to inspire our listeners. And I actually went back and I wrote down the quotes you gave us in 2022. Do you want to hear them?

So Cristina, in 2022, the quote you gave us was successful transformations and successful leadership are all about empathy. And Alex, you said always work with human nature instead of against it. Both were really good, right? But now I'm asking for the bonus content. Another quote from each of you. Who would like to start?

Cristina Amigoni: 32:14

I think I'll start and I'll probably tag on to the similar theme, but I guess a quote that I would like to say is like every workplace issue comes back to being a human opportunity. 

Lyn Wineman: 32:28

Oh wow, I love it. Every workplace issue comes back to being a human opportunity. I love it. That's a good one. All right, Alex pressure is on.

Alex Cullimore: 32:40

I think I'm actually gonna borrow one from the book. So at some point in the book we say that humans come with great power and great baggage, but if you forget to consider the human, you're left, you don't get the power and you're left with the baggage.

Lyn Wineman: 32:53

Ooh, if you don't consider the human, you lose the power. Wait, say it again. I shouldn't try to remember.

Alex Cullimore: 33:00

I don't remember how we said it in the book. I should however we however we said it. However, we said it's people come with there it is. People come with both immense power and significant baggage. When we forget to consider the human, we lose access to the power and are left with the baggage.

Lyn Wineman: 33:14

That is really good. I always like talking to authors because authors have pages and pages and pages and pages of great quotes, and those were both great ones. I always love getting to talk to the two of you, and this has been a great conversation. As we wrap it up, I'd love to end with each of you telling me what is the most important thing you'd like people to remember about the work that you're doing. 

Cristina Amigoni: 33:40

That's a good question. That it's unique to your needs. 

Lyn Wineman: 33:50

Oh, wow. The work, so it's not like just a you've said this, not just a framework, not just a system, but very unique to who you are and where you are and what you need. That's awesome. All right, Alex.

Alex Cullimore: 34:00

I actually would just piggyback off of Cristina's quote. I think that every workplace obstacle ends up becoming a human opportunity, and that's why we sometimes we have a hard time def defining exactly where we want to go next because we see human problems everywhere. It's the core of all of the things that get in the way and that feel like friction in the workplace and our lives and our minds. These are all just human problems, and it's not a bad thing to have those, but they are approachable, and that's what we like to focus on.

Lyn Wineman: 34:28

So good. Alex and Cristina, I always love talking to you. I fully believe the world needs more people like you, more organizations like Siamo, helping people be real humans and have a better workplace and a better life and a better world. It all is so interrelated. Thank you so much for taking time to talk with me. 

Announcer: 34:57

We hope you enjoyed today's Agency for Change podcast. To hear all our interviews with those who are making a positive change in our communities, or to nominate a change maker you'd love to hear from, visit kidglov.com at kidglov.com to get in touch. As always, if you like what you've heard today, be sure to rate, review, subscribe, and share. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time.