Monica Snyder, the founder of Birdsong.co, is on a mission to help entrepreneurs systemize customer experiences that build relationships and generate revenue.
As an entrepreneur, Monica has a proven track record of growing businesses from 6-figure revenues to 7-figures using her unique combination of marketing strategy and systems design. She developed these skills through building software for Fortune 500 companies and then leaving corporate America to tackle the world of online entrepreneurship.
Once she’s escaped her computer, Monica loves spending time with her data geek husband and energetic children, baking, playing Zelda, and hiking. She also has an impeccable ability to choose fabulous restaurants, which has made her the go-to decision-maker when anyone is hungry.
https://monicasnyder.com and/or http://relationshipandrevenue.com
What is up everybody, Josh Tapp here again and welcome back to the lucky Titan and today we are here with Monica Snyder, the founder of Birdsong, which I just found out is actually her maiden name, which was really cool, I love to see where the last names come from. So that was exciting but Monica and I just connected before this call to talk about funnels, and email, which for a lot of you, you might be saying, boy, email, but I'm gonna tell you right now, if you get email done, you're going to literally 5 10 extra profits, because that's, that's where the money actually happens and for those of you who've been getting stuck in your funnels, and you just say funnels are a scam, they don't work, this is gonna be a great episode for you, because we're going to show you how to make your funnels work through email so Monica, say what's up to everybody, and then we'll hop in.
Monica: Hello, everybody. I'm so excited to be here.
Josh: It's going to be a fun one. So Monica, I do want to start off because, you know, I just entered this saying, Yeah, we're here to really debunk that funnels are a scam thing. We're not gonna dive hugely into funnels, but really into the back end of the funnel, the email sequence and everything. So I'm just kind of curious, because you have worked with so many companies doing this, how, what happens when you actually tack on a really good email campaign to a funnel
Monica: I actually have a story just last week, I had a client send out one email that I had to push her so hard to send me just send it this one email is a story style email and she sent it to go into her $3500 package, she sold six, she was like, What just happened? Like, you know, I was like, nothing like a $21,000 email for you but like, that is the power of email, and people just don't get it and, you know, don't get me wrong and it wasn't just a one email because she has a value ladder in play. She's got different levels of things. She's been bringing people into her list. She's been nurturing them. She's very professional in the area that she teaches in and all the stuff comes together, though, to send that one email to a sales page, and then boom, 21 grand, like, you know, I mean, like, when you tell me email marketing doesn't work. I'm like, Well, why don't you just go do it my way, and then we'll see.
Josh: Well, and here's what's funny is even if you suck, like, you just absolutely suck at email marketing, you're still going to get a click through rate, and you're still going to get sales. People are just and I know even for me, it's it's the fear of actually sending an email and not wanting to be spammy or being put into the spam folder so I'm sure you work through this all the time with your clients so how are you? How do you help people? How do you help them get past that fear to actually send the email because that sounds like what that the story you just told the problem?
Monica: Yeah, so let me ask you a question. Like, if you went to McDonald's and stood there, would you want to buy something?
Josh: Oh, yeah, the smell alone, right?
Monica: People are on your email list, because they have a problem they think you can help them solve. Okay, let's just be super clear, they didn't get on your email list, because they thought it'd be fun to read your emails. They got on there because they thought you could have a problem. They could that you have a problem that you can help solve. Oh, my goodness, I can't say that.
Josh: you have a solution to a problem they have. Yeah.
Monica: Right. So they're basically showing up at your storefront and you're saying, Oh, I don't want to serve you because it feels pushy, to say like, Oh, hey, you know, do you want this hamburger give them the freakin hamburger. They showed up for it. It just, I, this is what I say to my clients and then the other thing is, I really do have to push some people because it's usually where mindset they feel like they don't know enough or they don't, they're not an authority enough, or they're not somehow enough. But again, I go back to you know, people showed up at your store, not somebody else's and even if they are at somebody else's store, then they still would probably buy your thing if you would just let them know it existed. So
Josh: you just have to hit that's half the battle. I was. I'm sure you know, Steve Larson. We're both in the funnel world. Right? So he listened to his podcast, probably six months ago and he was he was telling us talking about how there was a guy who was like, Steve, I love you. I love everything about you. I don't know what you sell. I would buy it if I knew what you sold and I when I asked my audience, I was like, how many of you know what I what I sell, and I got so many messages back being like I have, I don't even have an idea what you sell and I remember just I mean slap in the face. I'm like, I am failing as an entrepreneur. I've got to make sure that people at least know what we do because at McDonald's, I mentioned the smell right? Like if you're standing at McDonald's, it's because you've recognized the golden arches. Yep, you've walked in the door because you're hungry, you're smelling the smell. Obviously you're getting buy right?
Monica: Well, and they deliver a consistent experience. It may not be the greatest experience, let's all be real, It's not like McDonald's burgers are the best thing on the planet but you know what you're getting into right? I think a lot of people miss that about email marketing and about marketing in general is a lot of the time it's the consistency to you know, you may not have the exact best product like you may not be the world's foremost expert in this thing, right? There's always gonna be somebody better than you but you've built that relationship with them through the consistency that you've built in your email list if you keep emailing them on a regular basis, and then they know like and trust you, and then they buy from you, because, you know, they'd rather Gosh, I'm not trying to call your business, McDonald's but like, Oh, good, right. It's, it's just it's it, that's the key is like, you just have to show up consistently and your experience can be more like, you know, you know, the palm steakhouse, if you want it to be, that's your choice, right but just keep the consistent experience and they will continue to show up and buy from you. Yeah, know how to buy and what you do?
Josh: Well, well, and I want to put some context on this, because most of the people listen to this, they understand the concept of funnels, whether they're using it or not, they understand emails are important. Let's talk through a little bit tactical of what you would actually send to somebody to convert into a sales message. First off, I mean, what's the schedule look like? What is what are the types of emails that you send out, and then we'll kind of go from there.
Monica: So I actually base your schedule on your goals, and how much you want to mail so in my previous business, we did six figures a month plus on email, email alone, and every week, we were emailing an offer, okay, so from Thursday to Sunday, you got an offer. We didn't email the other days of the week, but almost daily, we emailed some sort of offer and now,
Josh: what type of brand was that I'm just curious?
Monica: what type of brand?
Josh: Yeah, was it? Was it like an econ brand or was it a coaching,
Monica: sort of did digital marketing broad, so we would sometimes do Ecom, we had sort of a newbie audience. So they would sort of bounce from thing to thing until they found their thing, or taught, you know, agency, we'd have a bunch of different stuff. So that is a different business model than say, like, you've got one thing to sell over and over and so it depends really on you and your goal so I would say that you're not emailing enough, be even more and see, how do you keep that fresh, right because the problem with emailing more is like, you have to work it into your schedule and that's where it sort of gets tedious and hard until you start having it pay off, If you are working with clients, client stories are amazing and they don't have to be, you know, bigger, bold, there are people in your audience who would love to see a $500 return because they've been struggling to get to even that point, right so if you show them that even the little wins matter, that is great. Now, you also want to give them the big dreams of like, you know, sending a $21,000 email, um, which, you know, in my world is actually kind of a medium sized email, I had a friend that has, he has teams, and he has all this stuff, right? I taught him this specific campaign that is, it's like value, value plus, it's like a, you present the problem, you present the solution, just think of a sales page sort of spread out and then you present a new problem, because you know, every solution presents a new problem and then you tell them that you have the solution for that, but they have to pay for it and he ran it over Black Friday and I think it's like an $83,000 sequence for him, It was crazy. It was insane. So yeah.
Josh: So that yeah, that's awesome. I love that because I mean, really the schedule is one of those things that a lot of us get stuck on I mean, there's, you kind of have both sides of the coin, or you have some marketers are saying you can really only email them once a week and then you have some of them by Grant Cardone who were saying email them three times a day, right and I personally lean more towards the side of you can never I mean, if they get off your list, that means they're not gonna buy from you anyways, you might as well be building your list, right and providing tons of value but one of the questions that kind of came to mind when you were talking about your strategy of Hey, every single week, you were actually doing a different promotion. What about and the reason I asked you the type of business is because in ecom, that's really easy, because you have you know, 5000 SKU’s where a lot of entrepreneurs watching this or service based businesses and you maybe have one or two products, how do you still do promotions like that on a weekly or consistently without annoying your people?
Monica: So tell stories, at that point, you need to become a really good storyteller and because you need to do what I call edutainment, right, like you need to educate, entertain at the same time, case studies make for good things but also just like the little wins of a client mind shift. You know, your experience in doing something or learning something makes really good content. You have to do that or you can actually get really good at telling stories based on like real life thing so I have a one year old, a four year old and some Moana is like on repeat, right? And so one of the ways that I actually sell stuff is I talk about how you know, Moana his grandma is really the only sane one on the island, because she's actually trying to help me wanna find her dreams. I don't know if you know the storyline, but and but her parents are trying to stop her right. So then I said, well, who's stopping you from your dreams, don't let it be you go buy my product.
Josh: I love that because it's pulling from real life experience and I know for me, that's actually been one of the harder things is like, what do I actually share but I've had coaches beat this into my head, right is it's like anything, talk about the chair, you're sitting in how it swivels around, and sometimes you feel like you're spinning in circles, right? It's like dumb things, I literally just saying the first thing that came to mind, but but tell us a little bit of how you identify those stories.
Monica: Yes, so. So really, it's to me, it's about the transition. Like if I'm thinking about like, I'm sitting in this chair, like I'm sitting here is like, what is the transition to what I'm selling right? So if I'm selling funnel coaching, right, then you know, funnels has have a lot of moving parts. So what in the world has a lot of moving parts, okay, my car? Well, then my husband had to go get my car serviced, right, our car service, right so I can talk about like, how the experience at the mechanic is so not like a funnel, right and that, you know, they have this terrible user experience. If somebody would solve that are like, take me through a funnel, then right? Then there will be good if you want my help, If you're a small business to create a funnel, or I can even talk about, you know, how the mechanic could create a funnel, right? Like, hey, you know how to change a, like a headlight, right? is one of those simple things that like, I don't know how to do that right? Like, send me an SLO for that. Send me send me a self-liquidating offer for like basic mechanic things and talk about how that small business could do that actually was on the phone with a friend that has a carpentry business and what I was telling him was like, every small business has two audiences, they have other business owners like them, they could build funnels for, or they have, you know, their actual customers they could build funnels for, and they're just missing out on revenue all over the place.
Josh: Right and that's very, very true, especially if you've been the crazy ones like us where we've built 1000s of funnels at this point, right are 1000s of funnel pages at least so I want to ask you this, Monica, because um, you know, we've talked about where to identify the stories and how to, you know, kind of that's kind of the hook that brings people into your world but how do you then take them from that to actually converting them and you just kind of teased it a little bit there with with giving them little funnels but does that mean you need to be building new funnels all the time or or what do you recommend?
Monica: Now, you don't have to, you know, you'd have to get really good at different hooks and angles, if you want to sell the same funnel over and over again right, so and then finding different audiences and I actually think, you know, since people seem to be familiar with click funnels, like Russell Brunson does this brilliantly, right, he's going after anybody with a website and network marketers and so that's a new audience, right? And network marketers, and then he's going after agencies. Right? So how do you go after agencies and how do you then go after, you know, all these other different pockets of people and he didn't start there right? I mean, he started with the diehard people who already knew what a funnel was but there's a whole plethora of people out in the world that don't know that so think the awareness levels, if you're aware of that, and marketing, right, like there's problem aware, there's solution where there's completely unaware, go up that level, and see look around like, Okay, well, I have a solution for small business owners that they're not even aware of, it's called a funnel, you know, and maybe they are, but they probably think a funnel is like a lead magnet funnel and they don't even know that like, there's these other like digital products and then, you know, they're out there calling it things like e-learning, or anything using a different language than you are. So go find their language, speak to them, pull them into your world and that's how you sell your same funnel or your same services over and over and over.
Josh: I love that and you're pulling from the people who hang out on like, Udemy, or these places with $15 courses, which I feel like those are a curse to the to the industry. Not a big fan. So I want to ask you this too, because if we're talking about promoting different offers, and everything as well, and let's say you have your core business, and you have two or three products, and I'll just put this in the perspective of ours, that we really, we really have two products, that's what we sell and, but there's a lot of supporting products that other people sell that we like to affiliate for how do you incorporate your affiliate deals into it without kind of interrupting people or confusing them, about what you sell,
Monica: yeah, so, I take the same approach, basically the problem, the problem solution problem solving with a product, and I let them know along the way that this is my friend, this is a colleague, this is a trusted resource, I don't tend to affiliate with things that I have not personally used to know really well, if I know the person really well, maybe I haven't used their service, but I do know that they are good, I've definitely been in affiliate deals where that is not the case or like something bad has happened so I'm pretty careful about that these days and so I would say as long as you would, you know, have a conversation with a friend in real life and refer it then go ahead and put it to your email list and then there's two sorts of ways that works, if they have an ongoing open thing, I work it into my calendar and then if they don't It's like a launch, I just try to make sure that that is happening because I've also been a part of like, you know, these multi million dollars launches as an affiliate and the key there, by the way, is like, a big list and big bonuses, these crazy bonuses, but and that's true for any affiliate promotion, actually, you should, you should offer your take on the content to bridge the gap between your audience and that new person.
Josh: I love that. Well, and and you've you've personally done quite a few different affiliate launches as well and would you recommend doing them multiple times a month or just saying, Hey, I with your list, just pick one a month or one a quarter, I quit? What did you mean?
Monica: Like I'm asking for affiliates to promote my things?
Josh: No, as far as as for you promoting somebody else's stuff on your own.
Monica: So to me, that goes back to your email calendar so in your resources really too so if you have your own stuff to promote, and you've got a monetary goal you want to meet, and then write out your monetary goals, put your numbers in estimate based on your history, or take your best guess and then see like, Okay, well, I'm trying to, you know, hire this new person, and I'm going to need to make an extra $10,000 to do that, Is there an affiliate promo I can put in here that would make that happen and then that sort of thing, right? Like, fill in the gaps with your affiliate promotions or if you want to make that a big focus, because, you know, maybe you host a podcast and like you meet all these great people, and you want to affiliate for them all the time, not saying that's what you want to do but then you're like, hey, once a month, we're gonna have an affiliate promotion and fill your calendar that way.
Josh: Yeah, I love that and I know, for us, one of the ways that we've found to kind of bridge that gap in our own company is to use like something like Click Funnels, where it's kind of a multi-purpose affiliate program where you can say, Hey, here's a page that you can use for maybe if you're selling a book, or if you're trying to sell a book, here's a great little book funnel, right, just a simple funnel and that allows us to kind of bring them into that world easier, we generate quite a bit of revenue through Click Funnels as an affiliate source but then there's other programs, for example, we have a lot of people that I love their service, and we promote them, and they kick us a huge referral fee for it, those ones have been great for us, I'm not typically through mark through email marketing, though, interestingly enough, it's been through just referring, but we haven't really done a great email campaign for it yet. So that's where Monica comes into play.
Monica: I would say send one email, right, just start with one about, you know, something, use one of their stories and say, You say you wanted to promote, like a Facebook ads agency right They talk about some of their client results, because I'm sure that they're sending you an email or you see something on their Facebook, like I just had a friend, he posted this amazing testimonial, take that, put it in an email, just be like, I know, this guy gets results, so if you've been looking for a Facebook ad agency, like go check this one out, right and just make sure that you know, you tell him I sent him or you can work the deal out with the agency, and however you get that referral money but yeah, I mean, you could just take their marketing and use it because your audience hasn't seen it
Josh: right. Yeah, it's, it's bizarre, to me that people don't do that more often, honestly. I mean, for us, what we found is that people come into our world, they come into our coaching program, and we help solve one big need for them, we help them monetize their show, right? They build a show, they monetize, it becomes the engine for their content but then there's all these other problems that arise in their lives, right a lot of them like, Oh, I need a website, oh, I need somebody help me grow my Instagram, oh, I need somebody to help me with my SEO, and on and on and on, I don't want to offer those services. But finding other companies who do is really, really helped us to increase our revenue because when I meet with a person, I'm not always saying, Oh, I'm the only solution to your problem, I honestly, I don't know how to do that. We don't do that but I know somebody who's amazing at it and that's great.
Monica: Do you have a resources page on your website?
Josh: We did. We're redoing our website now. So there will be one.
Monica: Yes. Literally send that out in your welcome series or, you know, a week after right? Like, hey, by the way, I know I can't solve all your problems, because that's not what we do. But here are my trusted resources right? It's like your little black book. Who doesn't want that? I want your little black book.
Josh: Your Rolodex?
Monica: Yeah, like sharing. Sharing your Rolodex is so powerful, right
Josh: and nobody even knows what that is nowadays but yes, sharing sharing your list. I love it. I'm totally gonna make an email about that this week and send it out just so you know,
Monica: Oh, my gosh, you have to tell me how it goes.
Josh: I made a million dollars. So, Monica, I really appreciate you sharing all this. I hope it gave a lot of people a real look into how they should be using email and how they can convert through email. So you actually have something I'm going to go by right after this. But you have these 18 different templates for emails that correctly I'm going to go So how about you, I guess, I'm just gonna
Monica: eight series, there's 32 emails in these eight series and it's called relationship and revenue, because I believe that you should build a relationship with your audience that allows them to want to spend money with you and it's, um, it's sort of like, in real life, when you meet somebody, like there's that initial phase and then when you get to know them a little bit better than, you know, you expand that relationship, and then sometimes, you know, relationships end, and that's okay and then they unsubscribe, or sometimes they like, go deeper and become better friends. It's all built off of that, because one of the unknown facts about me is I've been a maid of honor seven times, and in like, 14 weddings, like I am an excellent friend and so I just took all those things that I do in real life and apply them to my email, and it was like, boom, amazing. So that's all in that lovely little course.
Josh: I love that. So the reason I'm gonna buy that is because it is difficult to actually write those sequences yourself and if you're feeling like, man, I just don't know where to where to start with email and for most of us, we just kind of let our email list piddle out because we just don't know what to write so go check that out and the website, what does that again?
Josh: That's right relationshipandrevenue.com so make sure you all go check that out. You can get into Monica's world there specifically. So, Monica, I want to ask you one final question, before we end the call here. So if you could give our audience one final parting piece of guidance, what would that be?
Monica: One final piece of what?
Josh: parting piece of guidance
Monica: just working over yourself. People want to hear from you. Send the dang email