The Good Listening To Show: Stories of Distinction & Genius

Founder Story: From Apartheid To Agency. Erica Mackay’s Path To Purpose & Founding The Marketing Detective Agency. Marketing So Good Even a Giraffe Would Swipe Right!

• Chris Grimes - Facilitator. Coach. Motivational Comedian

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Hungry buyers don’t need convincing; they need finding. That’s the heart of our conversation with strategist and storyteller Erica Mackay from the Marketing Detective Agency, where “Giraffes Don’t Eat Steak” isn’t just a catchy title—it’s a sharp reminder that not every audience is your audience. We swap spray-and-pray tactics for research-led clarity and show how to spot the lions who actually want what you sell.

Erica takes us from her childhood in apartheid South Africa—where questioning unfair rules became second nature—to a global marketing career across EMEA and a bold pivot into entrepreneurship. Along the way, she reveals an unexpected chapter as a close protection officer and unpacks how that discipline translates into better marketing: map the environment, profile the actors, plan the route, and prepare contingencies. In business terms, that’s voice-of-customer research, competitor insight, channel focus, and message testing that saves time and money.

We break down practical steps any founder or marketer can use now: narrow your segment to people who want, need, and can afford your offer; capture the exact language your buyers use; craft a simple value proposition; and place it where attention already lives. Erica’s throughline is human connection—help people feel seen, whether they’re customers or young speakers finding confidence—and the results will follow. Expect smart positioning tips, memorable metaphors, and candid life lessons on courage, curiosity, and asking for help.

If you’re ready to stop waving steak at giraffes and start serving the right audience, hit play and bring a notepad. Then share this with a founder who needs a nudge, subscribe for more brand strategy conversations, and leave a review to tell us which insight you’ll test first.

Tune in next week for more stories of 'Distinction & Genius' from The Good Listening To Show 'Clearing'. If you would like to be my Guest too then you can find out HOW via the different 'series strands' at 'The Good Listening To Show' website.

Don't forget to SUBSCRIBE & REVIEW wherever you get your Podcasts :)

Thanks for listening!

SPEAKER_00:

Welcome to another episode of The Good Listening To Show, your life and times with me, Chris Grimes, the storytelling show that features the clearing, where all good questions come to get asked, and all good stories come to be told. And where all my guests have two things in common. They're all creative individuals and all with an interesting story to tell. There are some lovely storytelling metaphors, a clearing, a tree, a juicy storytelling exercise called 54321, some alchemy, some gold, a cheeky bit of Shakespeare, and a cake. So it's all to play for. So yes, welcome to the Good Listening 2 show, your life and times with me, Chris Grimes. Are you sitting comfortably? Then we shall begin. And we're in. Welcome to another delightful episode of The Good Listening 2 Show stories of distinction and genius. It is my absolute pleasure, delight, and privilege to welcome from the Marketing DetectiveAgency.com Erica Mackay. I've pronounced that correctly. I did that just a second ago to check. Am I still getting it right? You've got it spot on. Thank you, Chris. Yes, absolutely. And we've had a little bit of a glitch on the old internet. This is actually Take Two, please, because something happened in the streaming of Same. But anyway, welcome to the show. This is the show in which I invite movers, makers, shakers, mavericks, influencers, and also personal heroes into a clearing or serious happy place of my guests choosing as they all come to share with us their stories of distinction and genius. We have Jill Tiny and Collaboration Global in common too. And in fact, within that glorious community, and a big hello and shout out to Jill Tiny, you've been tasked with being my mentor to get me more ingrained into what Collaboration Global can offer.

SPEAKER_01:

I have, yes.

SPEAKER_00:

And I'm sorry I've not been very present recently because I've been going in a very hectic time in a good way, which is really good. But I'm I'm definitely going to come to you for your mentorship. Now, you have a wonderful podcast yourself, which I had the great privilege of being in, which is called Giraffes Don't Eat Steak. And you're from the Marketing Detective Agency. I love the fact that you've got a marketing story as your main raison d'etro for your podcast as well. Would you mind just telling us the story of why it's called deliciously giraffes don't eat steak?

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely. So the main framework of Giraffes Don't Eat Steak is the basis that every single business has a target audience, which is the client who wants, needs, and can afford what you have to offer. But so many businesses think, oh, I'm for everyone, and they stand with their juicy steak, whatever their product or service is, in a field of giraffes and scream and shout and do a dance and give specials and discounts and then wonder why no one is buying. And if you find out what you have and who you want it, and you find that field of lions, you have so much better chance because you don't even have to work hard. You just have to stand there and wave your steak, and those lines will come running. So that's where the podcast comes from is if you know your target audience, they'll come running and you don't have to work so hard.

SPEAKER_00:

And I love the fact they'll eat you and your juicy steak before you can even whip out the steak to talk about your juicy steak and the fact you've slathered it in, I don't know, black peppercorn sauce or garlic butter or whatever you've nomed it in. But that's a lovely proposition, the idea that you must go where your target market is. Absolutely. And then they'll literally or metaphorically bite your arm off to buy it off you. Exactly. Wonderful. So the marketing detective agency, I know you co-run it with Alex Bilney. If people don't have a frame of reference for the wonderment that you bring to the equation of marketing about, you know, whether your clients have lost time, lack of expertise, wasted money, or no new clients, that's where you step in. So what's your favorite way of being as the marketing detective agency?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, so we very much work in the top of the funnel is the marketing strategy part. So really spending time being your audience. So we will do the research, the detective work, we will understand everything about your target audience, who they are, how they speak, where they hang out, so that when we give you a strategy, it is directed, it's easy to follow, and it's really clear and works.

SPEAKER_00:

And of course, the marketing detective agency has a wonderful, as you'd expect, it has a magnifying glass to be able to sort of you know scorch into exactly what people should be looking for from a good marketing point of view. Absolutely. And I I love that icon on your, if I may say, a very crisp and clear website. No, thank you. That's all Alex. I like that. You're giving credit to Alex, that's good. So it's my great delight and joy to curate you through as a founder story. This is where we're gonna get into the who, the what, the why, the how you do what you do, and then crucially we're gonna find out where exactly in watching this you can come and find Erica Mackay as soon as we've finished talking to you. So there's gonna be a clearing a tree, a lovely juicy storytelling exercise called 54321. There's gonna be some alchemy, some gold, a couple of random squirrels, which is borrowed from the film up, uh, and then a cheeky bit of Shakespeare, a golden baton, and a cake. So it's all to play for. I was on Giraffe's Doge Steak. I had the great joy of being interviewed by you and Alex about a month ago, and this is a wonderful reciprocity. And my favourite word is reciprocity. So I'm delighted to have you here. Great to be here. So let's get you on the open road. Any questions about the structure before we start? No, I'm ready. Let's do it. Let's do this. Okay, so your clearing is your serious happy place. Where would you say Erica goes to get clutter-free, inspirational, and able to think?

SPEAKER_01:

Water. So anywhere near water is my happy place. My favorite happiest place in the world is Bloburg Strand in Cape Town, which is just over, if you look over the sea, you've got the view of Table Mountain. And so anything with sea water, I can take a river or a lake if I have to. But yes, that's my happiest place.

SPEAKER_00:

And just say the beautiful name of the Cape Town Vista again. What's it called? Blowberg Strand. Blob Strand. In all my circa 270 episodes, no one's mentioned Blowberg Strand at the at the foot of Table Mountain. That's gorgeous, thank you. So now I'm going to arrive with a tree in your clearing, and it's a bit waiting for Goddo-esque, a bit deliberately existential because of my acting background. And I'm going to shake your tree now to see which storytelling apples fall out. How do you like these apples? You can even hold a storytelling apple if you like. And then this is a lovely juicy storytelling exercise now called 54321. We've had five minutes to have thought about four things that have shaped you, three things that inspire you, two things that never fail to grab your attention, and then the one is a quirky or unusual fact about you andor the marketing detective agency. So um over to you. It's not a memory test. I'll curate you through it gently. So what would you say your four things are that have shaped you?

SPEAKER_01:

I think the very first thing that has shaped me, which came to mind, was the fact that I grew up as a black woman in apartheid, South Africa. And the reason this shaped me is because there were lots of rules about what I wasn't allowed to do. I think the one that stands out is I wasn't allowed to go into a library. And it was like, it didn't make sense. Why not? Why can't I go into a library? And so that has really caused me to question. Question everything to make sure where does this rule come from? Is it valid? Does it apply to me? Do I want to follow it? And so I think that was a big part of my shaping.

SPEAKER_00:

And does that make you habitually always wanting to break rules because of that ultimate barrier with the big question why?

SPEAKER_01:

I like I don't like being told I can't do things. So yes. As soon as someone says you can't, well, I'm gonna do it.

SPEAKER_00:

That's a a lovely antidote to the completely unjust rules and regulations in society. That's fantastic. And how old were you, if I may ask, when you um left South Africa?

SPEAKER_01:

I've been here uh 10 years, so 40 when I left South Africa.

SPEAKER_00:

Aging is both there. That's great. Fantastic. And what made you decide to come to the UK?

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, I was very privileged. I was working for a company at the time. I was looking after Europe, Middle East, and Africa for them. And there were lots of flights involved because I looked after 14 countries. And so they offered. They said, hey, it's gonna be cheap for us if you live in the UK and fly everywhere. Do you want to do that? And my husband, my kids were young at the time. We thought, why not? Give it a chance. Yeah. If we hate it, we can go back, right? And yeah, we're still here and we love it.

SPEAKER_00:

So you moved for your work or was he m also getting a job over here as well? No, just for me. Wonderful trailblazing husband as well. And how many children do you have? I have two children. Lovely. And were you doing a marketing remit within the company that you were doing, Emir?

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, I was head of direct marketing with me.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay. What's the the genesis of when you got going with the marketing detective agency? How old is that now?

SPEAKER_01:

Five years. So my daughter was just about to start well, in my head it's called high school. Yeah. I think it's year seven here or something. And um I thought high school's hard for girls. And because of my traveling, I was literally in a different country every week. I never knew where I was. I was away from home a lot. Yeah. And so I thought, well, I I want to be home more, I want to stay around more. And so that's when I quit the corporate world and started the marketing detective agency. And in your family background, do you have siblings as well? Yes, I've got two sisters.

SPEAKER_00:

The one lives in Spain and the other one in Sweden. Wow. You're a the tribe of global heads of yourself. And may I ask, are your parents still with us and in South Africa or?

SPEAKER_01:

Uh my mom's still alive. She's in Cape Town, so she's still there. Uh my dad passed 10 years ago.

SPEAKER_00:

Thank you for letting us know that too. Second thing that shaped you?

SPEAKER_01:

The second thing is my parents, actually. Um my dad, um, as I said, he's been past 10 years now. He was very much a he was very deliberate about what he thought was important. And even for us, education was he just we were three girls, and he didn't care. He was like, you will be independent, you will have education, and he fought for us. He fought in our town. I was the first non-white to go to a white school, and my dad made that happen. He fought for it. He approached the headmaster, he got through the church, and they let me in. You know, there was a lot of skepticism and fear at the time, but it worked, and then more and more came. But that was my dad. My dad was about fighting for what's right, but not with violence, with persistence, with relationships, with getting to know people. And I think a lot of that rubbed off on me. Um, my mom also played a part. She was part of something called Woman for Peace, where she just hung out with other women to show that we could, that it was fine. She took me once on a camp, uh, again, we were mixed kids, to show that we could go camping in the wilderness together and, you know, not kill each other, and it was fine. And so, you know, my parents were gentle but persistent, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00:

And hugely courageous given the historical imperative you're describing apartheid as well.

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely. And so, yeah, they've I think they've had a huge part to play in who I am. If they had followed the status quo, we would be uneducated, probably working as a bank teller somewhere quietly with ten children. You know, not that maybe I would have been happy doing that, but that wasn't what they wanted for us. And so they really made a difficult, a different life for us.

SPEAKER_00:

Aaron Powell And to your own courage as well, what was that like being the first black pupil at the school?

SPEAKER_01:

I didn't know I was six. I I just knew I had to I had to be good. I knew I had to do well, I had to get straight A's because everyone was watching. Um so looking back now, it had quite an impact in terms of who I am. Up I'm a perfectionist now, I I take the world pressures on my shoulders. Um so a lot of that has to do with with that six-year-old who was like put the poster child, you know, make it happen or everyone's gonna go, ha ha, we told you it was a failure.

SPEAKER_00:

And was there a bit of a sort of poster child imperative going on?

SPEAKER_01:

There was. Half the the school was very brave. The headmaster at the time uh was super brave, the teachers, because half the parents took their kids out when they heard about me. They were just like, nope, this is not gonna happen. The kids that remained, the parents who let their kids remain, I'm still friends with today. Um, they stood by me. I said things like we were I wasn't allowed in the library. They would get library books for me. You know, I wasn't allowed in shops, they would go and get stuff for me. Like they invited me to their homes. They were like, no, this is we're okay with this. And they opened their hearts and their minds. Where those who were like, no, we follow the government, they left. They moved to other schools. So the school lost out a lot. And so that did cause that impact on me, going, Oh, I better make this work.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

I've got to be the perfect child, I've got to be the straight-A student, I've got to be good so that others can follow, right?

SPEAKER_00:

Wonderful. What a courageous story. Fantastic Shapage. Uh shape number three.

SPEAKER_01:

Number three is through my my very first job, I worked um at El Mitchell Bank in Cape Town, I got to travel. And I remember the first trip was just from Cape Town to Janesburg, was my first time ever on an aeroplane. And I was petrified. I didn't know anything, didn't know about what do you have to show, where do you go, what do you do. And a friend, her name is Claire, she helped me through it. She just walked me through it and told me that. And then I started traveling more and more and more into my job. I got to see the world. And that has just opened my eyes. Opened my eyes into differences, cultures, how people can live together, different foods, different weather, you know, different ways of raising kids. Just the most amazing insights. And that has really shaped me. It it makes me curious, it makes me want to go see more. Um, makes me, you know, part of the questioning again. It's like, oh, why that? Why not this, you know? Um, and so that's the third part.

SPEAKER_00:

You're making me think of a a wing-clipped bird that ultimately society's clipping in wings and then drives you there and an eagle taking off into the thermals to just fly and soar and go and explore.

SPEAKER_01:

That's how I felt with travel. That's really how I felt. It was just so unbelievable. I still I love it. I love although I sleep on a plane, I'm probably one of the few people. I just before we even take off, I'm asleep.

SPEAKER_00:

That's relatable. I can sleep anywhere.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I just I love it. I absolutely love getting to a new place. I don't enjoy the airport experience, I will say that. But I do enjoy enjoy exploring, just getting to know people, seeing, you know, not the touristy side. I want to see the real side.

SPEAKER_00:

Lovely. And now I think it's shape edge number four.

SPEAKER_01:

And number four is this is a little bit of an odd one. When I needed to pay my way through university, I worked for nine years as a bodyguard. And not a bouncer, so I didn't go and stand at nightclubs and chase people. I was more close protection officer, so one-to-one protection. And I did it again because I was told girls can't do it. So of course I had to. It was an imperative. But it paid really well as well, and I could work evenings and weekends and study during the week. So it worked well with my schedule. And the training was six months.

SPEAKER_00:

I was going to ask about the training, because you can't just say, Yes, I'll do that, and stand next to someone and hope everything will be okay.

SPEAKER_01:

No. It was six months intensive training. We were, I think, thirty that started on the training and only four of us passed. So it was really hard. Um we were taught everything from bomb detection, bombed combat, unarmed combat, advanced driving, and more than anything with strategy. If you are escorting a businessman to a dinner, which is generally what I did, because I could blend in as the secretary or something like that, you spend the whole week researching. You have to research your client. What are they like? Are they gonna get drunk? Are they a flirt? Are they gonna pass out? Are they going to scream if they see a gun? Like you need to know how they're going to be. You need to research the attacker. So generally, people know who's after them. But are they likely to use bombs, guns? Are they gonna come in a group or is it silent? Are they just gonna poison food? Or like what is their um modus operandi? How do they normally act and what you can do to protect that? You need to understand the venue. So every entrance, exit, how do they hire staff, you know, everything about that venue. And then the fourth one is the route from picking your client up to where you go and back again. What are all the detours that can happen? Where can they ambush ambush you, all that kind of stuff? So that research work is what I've now taken into my marketing life. Um and I think it really shaped me because if you do that well, your client lives.

SPEAKER_00:

And it's forensic. You can tell it's forensic, that attention to detail. Very born identity as well, if I may say so. And gosh, uh and was the sort of theatre of activity South African? Is that where you were doing that? It was in Cape Town, yes. In Cape Town. Wow. And and uh are you still in touch with people that you've protected or still in touch with those of you that passed?

SPEAKER_01:

No, no. Actually, the other three that passed with me went into full-time. And when you're a full-time, you go off the grid. Like you can't have contact with your family or anyone. And that's why I chose not full-time, I chose part-time because I was young and I was like, I'm not sure I'm ready to make that decision that I'm not gonna have a family, right? And um, so they've gone off the grid. Every now and again I see one of them pop up on the TV. I'm like, oh, I remember you. And yeah, clients move on, right? It's it's a one-off, or you know, you don't really do if I was part-time, then you don't do repeat work.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. Gosh, you're the uh quite literally the first person that's ever had that as their fourth shape age. And what's the title for that amount for that type of work again? It's Close Protection Officer. Wow. That's uh yes, a a wonderful accolade for a marketeer to also have that particular special skill. Wonderful. So we've we've done the four things that have shaped you. Now it's three things that inspire you, Erica.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes. I did think about this for the five minutes you gave me. The main one is human connection and conversation. I'm just so fascinated by people and not necessarily your big names. I'm not really interested in that, but watching a little girl win a ballet contest or something she's really worked for, or you know, when people have put their heart into something and succeed, that just oh, makes it just inspires me, it just gets me so excited. The stories, the struggles, the wins that they have, but more the ordinary person. And I think for most people, the ordinary person is your client, right? And so it's understanding that journey that that really inspires me and makes me think, wow, this the world is good. Because we get so inundated with negativity in social media and you know, all the stuff. That seeing these pockets of good is just wonderful.

SPEAKER_00:

It's the classic hero's journey where there's an obstacle in the way and then how we overcome that obstacle. Absolutely. And I love the fact you're identifying with a young girl ballerina as your first example of that.

SPEAKER_01:

My kids always have a good laugh because I tear up so easily when when there's anything to do with kids. I just tear up. You know, watching a kid achieve something and just beam with pride because they don't know, right? They haven't been spoiled almost like us adults with being told you can't do stuff and all this negativity. Yes. And they just do, right? They just do, and it just, oh, it's so inspirational.

SPEAKER_00:

You're a real people's champion, I'm hearing that. I am. Wonderful second inspiration?

SPEAKER_01:

The second has to be my children. So I was actually told I can never have children by five doctors. They were like, nope, can't do it. My womb is wrong, or something, there was something wrong. And then I had miracle number one, and my daughter was born, and I um I just yeah, I just was just so much in awe of how much we can achieve despite, right? It's despite.

SPEAKER_00:

Five doctors say it never happened. The doctor said no, you said yes.

SPEAKER_01:

Um and I didn't say yes, I just stopped fighting. Uh-huh. I just let it be, and then my body decided for itself, right? And then I got miracle miracle number two, which is my son. And yeah, they're both just amazing. They're just so driven. They inspire me every day with their questions, their different approach. And they're in such a complex world compared to when I was a teenager, right? There's so much more that they have to deal with. I mean, I think my worst was some girl that lived across the road that had a fight with my sister. That was like the most complex thing I had to deal with.

SPEAKER_00:

But um, you you say that, but there was the whole challenge of of apartheid that you had to overcome as well. So that's you're being modest, I think. That's true.

SPEAKER_01:

I'd but when you're in it, you don't feel it, right? Yes. You don't feel it when you're in it. It's just when you look back going, oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00:

And that was the really striking thing about me saying, what was it like being the only? And you said, Well, I was six. And of course that's the classic, isn't it? With children really don't we're not born with prejudice, and that's the extraordinary thing.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And when we moved here, because obviously my my kids were three and five when we moved here, and the day I I think that I was the proudest was I was driving with my son, and I said, There's one of your friends. And he went, Which one? And I said, uh, the Chinese-looking one. And he goes, What colour was his hair, Mom? You know, and my kids don't see skin colour, and that for me was the happiest moment of my life. And such a transition from the way I grew up and the way I'm still trying to deprogram my brain.

unknown:

Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

I was like, Yes, this is this is why we're here. This is this is what I wanted, right? And so yeah, they're just amazing every day.

SPEAKER_00:

Lovely. And I can tell you your pride is oozing.

SPEAKER_01:

That's wonderful. Does mean I'm a teacher's nightmare because if they dare say something bad, I'm right up there.

SPEAKER_00:

The people's champion. You're there again. Third inspiration?

SPEAKER_01:

My third inspiration is is a softer one. It's really anything that's a mystery that needs to be solved. I just I have to solve it. I'm an Agatha Christie fanatic. I you know, my kids will know if there's a series on psych or any with anything with a mystery or a murder, I'm there, I'm watching it.

SPEAKER_00:

Which makes profound sense with the marketing detective agency, obviously. So was that your brainchild, really, to call it that? It was. You credited Alex with a lot, but you've obviously got the name. That was your love and passion for all things solving the problem.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, the design is all him. But the um any anything broken, anything that can be done better, anything that is inefficient, and it drives me crazy, or drives my family crazy as well, because we can be anywhere. We can be at the McDonald's, and I'll be like, hmm, if they just moved this here and did that there, this line would go quicker, or whatever. So that's the next thing that inspires me is there's so much opportunity, right? Like there's just so much opportunity for us to still get better, do things better.

SPEAKER_00:

And get the sound out of gears of any process is something else you're all over by the sound of it. Absolutely. Great inspirations. And now uh we're on to the two squirrels. This is borrowed from the film Up. The Oh, squirrels, the dog that does that in in the film. It's the two monsters of distraction. What two things in your life never fail squirrels to grab your attention, irrespective of anything else that might be going on for you?

SPEAKER_01:

So the first one is linked to the previous point, which is really anything broken or anything that can be more efficient. Wherever we are, whatever I'm doing, that is like, oh, wait, why haven't you done that? Squirrel.

SPEAKER_00:

Yep. Lovely.

SPEAKER_01:

So that's the first one. I'm just I'm crazy. I always say there's that movie with um what's his name now? But it yeah, this I see dead people. Do you know that movie?

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, yes, that'd be Patrick Swayze, would it be? No, no, no, no, that's Ghost. Thank you. That'd be Bruce Willis. Bruce Willis, yes. Thanks. We got it together then.

SPEAKER_01:

But I say I see marketing. I feel like that's me. I see marketing everywhere. I love that.

SPEAKER_00:

I see dead people. No, I see marketing. That's a great squirrel.

SPEAKER_01:

And then my second one is is really someone else's story of success, whatever it is, right? Whether it's getting a better score at school or getting a medal or doing a speech for the first time. I'm I'm a Toastmaster, and so I also um do quite a lot of public speaking with with young kids. I I run a program to help young kids get confidence in public speaking. And so when they've you know, when they do that for the first time, I'm in it. I want to know, ooh, where did that come from? Why? What's going on there? And then I'm totally distracted. That's like, oh, now I need to unpack that thing.

SPEAKER_00:

So it's the elixir of anything that musters improvement. You're all over it. Absolutely. That's a a a cracking squirrel. Lovely. And now the one, uh as we shake the tree and come to the end of this section, the one is a quirky or unusual fact about you, Erica. We couldn't possibly know about you until you tell us.

SPEAKER_01:

So I am terrified of heights. And the reason this is quirky unusual is because I do a lot of high things. So I've gone skydiving and I yeah, I do a lot of high things, but I'm actually terrified. I if I go to the gym, you know they usually have that little step. I can't get up on the step without holding a wall.

SPEAKER_00:

I mean, that's how bad it is for me. So you've done your own aversion therapy if you've started leaping out of aeroplanes and things.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, this is the thing. My feeling of not being told what to do is even me telling me what not to do, right? And so my fear is I know it's irrational, and so no, I'm going to do it. And I do it, and then I go, no, I'm still scared, but okay, but I've done it.

SPEAKER_00:

I can move on. And that's the a a wonderful difference in you than others, because people often just are allergic to their not wanting to do something. Whereas you're making yourself do it.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, because it's not logical, right?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And as soon as it's not logical, then I'm like, okay, I don't understand this.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, there is an aspect of heights that are logical to be afraid of, because of course there's always that moment of do I stand here or do I fall off? You know, there is that quandary that we all face existentially when you're leaning off a ridge. I'm thinking, is that just me or it's probably everybody? Absolutely, absolutely. So that's it. We've shaken your tree. Yes. Hurrah. Now we stay in the clearing, move away from the tree. Next we're going to talk about alchemy and gold. So when you're at purpose and in flow, and you're giving us this by the bucket load anyway, and it's implicit, but what are you absolutely happiest doing in what you're here to reveal to the world?

SPEAKER_01:

I'm really happiest when I'm helping someone find themselves. And there's two parts. The one is in business, if they find their true target audience, the person who really goes, Oh, I want what you have, right? That makes you feel good as well, that connection. But also I work with teenagers and young people, finding who they are, just helping them uncover their purpose. And at 18 or whatever, you don't really know your purpose yet, but just being clear about who they are. And so that's when I'm happiest, is helping people uncover the true them, whether it's business or personal.

SPEAKER_00:

There's that lovely quote, be yourself because everyone else is taken. Yes, if you pick that one. I think it's an Oscar Wilde quote. Love that. Hurrah! So now we're gonna award you with a cake, Erica. So there you go. Do you like cake, first of all? Sometimes. Not chocolate. I don't eat chocolate. So you can have a cake of choice and then it's a final storytelling suffused metaphor where you get to put a cherry on the cake. So what type of cake might you like? Carrot cake. That's I think that's a dog toy carrot cake with a cherry on it. When I Google that, I'll pop that and I bought it. Great. Good marketing. I was looking for that. I know. I know you didn't sell it to me, but there you go. So now you get to put a cherry on the cake, which is stuff like what's a favourite inspirational quote that's always given you succor and pulled you towards your future?

SPEAKER_01:

So my favourite quote is don't think out of the box. Think like there is no box.

SPEAKER_00:

Hello. Yes. Just say that again. It's worth re-re-re-incorporating.

SPEAKER_01:

Don't think out of the box. Think like there is no box.

SPEAKER_00:

Lovely answer. With the gift of hindsight, what notes, help, or advice might you proffer to a younger version of yourself?

SPEAKER_01:

I think I would tell her that you don't have to fight every battle alone. You can ask for help, and asking for help doesn't make you weak. It makes you stronger.

SPEAKER_00:

And you've got a very individual idiosyncratic path to that realization because of the struggle that you had at the very beginning. Absolutely. Yes, that's a great answer. What's the best piece of advice you've ever been given, obviously by somebody else?

SPEAKER_01:

So this is actually a recent one in the last year where a probably 18-year-old we were working together and I asked something and he said, No one really knows what they're doing. We're all just pretending, but with confidence. And I just thought, isn't that the whole of life?

SPEAKER_00:

Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

And yeah, for the last year that's been like my quote of my advice of choice is actually no one knows what we're doing. We're all pretending with confidence. And I love it.

SPEAKER_00:

That's perfect. And how opposite to get it from a young person as well. Yes, exactly. Because therein lies the wisdom of the future. Marvellous. This is now the uh pass the golden baton moment before we ramp up to Shakespeare. As you've experienced this from within, Erica, who do you most think would most enjoy, like, benefit, or just be just want to be given a damn good listening to in this way? Who would you like to pass the golden baton to?

SPEAKER_01:

So I think I'd like to pass it on to Pete Moles. And just tell me a tiny bit about Pete. So Pete runs Mastermind Groups. Um I've been a member for two years now, Mastermind 9. And he's just got, and we've spent some time together, he's got an amazing story. He's a networker of notes. And I think we'd really Yeah, I should have a lot to share and really benefit from a good listening to.

SPEAKER_00:

That's a wonderful passing of the button. Thank you. Just before we get onto the Shakespeare, there's a very exciting moment now which Joe's, our wonderful technician, is going to help with, which is called Show Us Your QR code, please. You won't see it on this screen, but there's got about to be a QR code flashed up of where tell us all about where we can go and find you on the internet, but particularly the marketingdetective agency.com.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, so LinkedIn. I'm Erica Mackay, I'm always on LinkedIn. If you search for the Marketing Detective, I also come up, and we do have Giraffe Still Needs Take Podcast there as well. And then the website is The Marketing DetectiveAgency.com.

SPEAKER_00:

Perfect. And obviously connect with Erica on LinkedIn, please. Lovely. So now inspired by Shakespeare and all the world are stage and all the men and women merely players. How when all is said and done, Erica Mackay, would you most like to be remembered?

SPEAKER_01:

I think I'd want people to say she made me feel seen. I think that's that's what really what I want is she made me feel seen. I hope that I help people uncover their true selves, whether it's in business or personal, and help them really feel like they're they're seen in the world.

SPEAKER_00:

What a lovely legacy. I I suspect that's in the bag. How lovely. So a couple of quick announcements from me. I'm just going to reveal a legend on my t-shirt which says, What's your story? This is the whole cut and thrust of the good listening to. It's all about trying to get humanity stories out one story at a time. But very excitingly, there's a very particular series strand that actually I'll be asking you for some help and some advice on further down the line. It's called Legacy Life Reflections, which uses this same structure, but to record either your own story or the story of that precious someone for posterity, lest we forget, before it's too late. And my own father, Colin Grimes, I interviewed him five years ago in the Halcyon days of his 80s, before, with the gift of hindsight, he slipped into a crater of declining health. He died a year ago, but I've recently been exhibiting about legacylifereflections.com. There may well be another QR code there, legacylifereflections.com. And as I say, it's just about, you know, with no morbid intention, capturing those precious stories. And the idea being it'll take just two hours of your life to record that precious life forever using this structure. Love it. And then my my challenging question is who I suspect half the world is my target market because most people want to talk about themselves or, but then you'll challenge me on that going, no, no, no, no, no. I'm doing a be a giraffe with my steak. You don't have to give me nods. I'm not trying to make you work for it now, as it were. So, as this has been your moment in the sunshine in the Good Listening to show, Stories of Distinction and Genius, Erica Mackay. Mackay, sorry. But you know what? I've suddenly got stuck on that because there are so so many different ways to pronounce it. So my question is: as this has been your moment, is there anything else you'd like to say?

SPEAKER_01:

No, I've really enjoyed the experience. Thank you, Chris. I wasn't sure. I'm usually on the other side asking questions.

SPEAKER_00:

So yeah, thank you for listening to me. And also definitely check out. Um, do you want to talk about where we can find Giraffes Don't Eat Steak, or is that just obvious wherever you get your podcasts?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it's on Spotify, Apple, there's a YouTube channel, we're on TikTok. So yeah, wherever you feel like listening, lots of awesome, awesome marketing advice there.

SPEAKER_00:

And a couple of quite nice guests as well. I myself am going to be uh published soon. Eric. So thank you very much indeed. I've been Chris Grimes, but most importantly, this has been Erica from the Marketing DetectiveAgency.com. Thank you very much indeed. Thanks for listening. Get in touch if you'd like a conversation about guesting too. And good night. Thanks, Chris. You've been listening to the Good Listening to Show with me, Chris Grimes. If you'd like to be in the show too, or indeed gift an episode to capture the story of someone else with me as your host, then you can find out how, care of the series strands at the Good Listening2Show.com website. And one of these series strands is called Brand Strand Founder Stories, for business owners like you to be able to tell your company story, talk about your purpose and amplify your brand. Together we get into the who, the what, the how, the why you do what you do, and then crucially, we find out exactly where we can come and find you to work with you and to book your services. Tune in next week for more stories from the clearing, and don't forget to subscribe and review wherever you get your podcasts.