When East Meets West
East coast psychologist Peter Economou, Ph.D. and West coast psychologist Nikki Rubin, Psy.D. discuss the relationship between ancient Eastern spiritual practices and modern Western behavioral science with practical takeaways for everyone. Learn more at www.wheneastmeetswest.com
When East Meets West
S4E28 Branding Discomfort: When Authenticity Meets Visual Identity
We explore the uncomfortable yet necessary world of professional branding from our perspective as psychologists. Despite one of us actively disliking branding while simultaneously being considered a private practice celebrity, we unpack how visual representation communicates our values even when we resist traditional marketing approaches.
• Tension between authentic representation and curated professional images
• The discomfort many practitioners feel about social media management and self-promotion
• Branding as a necessary business function versus an extension of personal identity
• How office spaces and visual choices unconsciously communicate our professional approach
• Reframing branding as value-based visual communication rather than just selling
• The inevitable reality that everyone has a brand whether they cultivate it intentionally or not
• Our own journey with the When East Meets West rebranding process
Visit our newly redesigned website at WhenEastMeetsWest.com to see our updated branding!
your favorite topic. It's not anxiety, it's not mindfulness, it's branding.
Speaker 2:Except hopefully everyone listening is picking up on Pete's very intentional sarcasm because I hate branding.
Speaker 1:You really do not like branding, and yet you've got an amazing brand.
Speaker 2:I mean thank you, yeah, I just don't enjoy it.
Speaker 1:I understand, go ahead. I understand, so go ahead.
Speaker 2:Well, I have to say, I understand this. It's kind of like when businesses need to use social media. It's like there's a function to it and, by the way, people that do branding I have a great deal of respect for.
Speaker 1:It's like I, just personally hate doing it, you don't like social media. I mean, you don't really like any of that stuff. I mean, so it kind of comes back to our recent episode about your privacy. You know so that branding in many ways feels super vulnerable, you know because, uh, there is, there can be, an inauthentic side to it.
Speaker 2:That's what it is. It doesn't feel super, it doesn't feel vulnerable to me. It feels the opposite it feels, um fake because it's curated Right and so I think you know, I'm sure you're're gonna start going this way. It's like, obviously, when branding is working well, it's actually um somebody said this to me once. Actually it's, it's about an authentic representation, just of like like I love clothes. I love like yes styles.
Speaker 1:So it's like that fluorescent pink is your favorite color yes, also, hot pink is my favorite color.
Speaker 2:Um, you know, like that's the type of it's like how. How are we showing up in the world?
Speaker 1:but I think but I think what I don't like is when branding becomes about it's like everything is the two-dimensional version of something and that it's like icky to me you know, and I think what I, when I hear you say that, what comes to mind is like I think that's part of the judgment of some, say, actors and I think honestly, it's like the pathology uh leads to some of the pathology of actors, where they sort of forget who they are because they're constantly in in role or in character is what I hear you saying and so what we're going to talk about?
Speaker 1:so for people that maybe don't like branding, and they're like why are these two psychologists talking about branding? We know nothing about it.
Speaker 2:Um so, so glad you're tuning in.
Speaker 1:We have absolutely no wisdom to share so buckle up and grab your coffee or whatever you're drinking, because we've got a lot of insight. No, but it's going to be about how it might feel uncomfortable and, uh, what it's done for us and and what I meant is your branding. It's so funny that you don't like branding as a personally, because for listeners, um and you may, many listeners won't necessarily know this because they might not be mental health practitioners or on Simple Practice, but anyone on Simple Practice you're a celebrity.
Speaker 2:Private practice celebrity.
Speaker 1:You are a private practice celebrity private practice celebrity and as a result of that, you know you also developed the private practice toolkit. You know, which is another thing that you had a brand and you did. You know. Obviously, you consulted with someone to make sure that you got that done. That's the way, so I'm going to assume that that is that the way you deal with it, you deal with it.
Speaker 2:Help me. Yeah, exactly, I don't want to do this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Like you, you go to an orthopedic when you have an issue with a bone or you know, so you just kind of consult with the experts on this.
Speaker 2:Yes, but tell me what? Because you're you know you're also very skilled at branding you, but I would say you, I don't know, do you? You maybe enjoy it more than I do.
Speaker 1:Oh, I definitely enjoy it more than you do. I think my Eastern practice says that none of it even matters. You know, I'm not any of the stuff, you know we are not any of our accomplishments, and I and I do truly believe that I had a colleague call recently, like recently, and he was like, oh, that's the Dr Pete TV answer. I'm like no, no, no, no, like I meditate a lot to get me mad, you know, because that's what the eastern world gift has given us. Um, so that's the only piece of it where it's like.
Speaker 1:That's at times can feel fake. And what I will say and I guess I'll just say this to the public right now is that, like I don't manage a lot of it and I, that's a value-based decision because and I'm nobody like I and I don't make a ton of money, you know but it's a value-based decision for me to say I don't want to be there checking likes and posts and it's not good for our mental health. So if I'm sitting here preaching it, how am I going to be the one that's on there doing all of it and I don't and I don't. And so even for my friends that are very close to me, they know not to message me on any of these places because I won't see it Sure sure.
Speaker 1:So I don't. That doesn't answer your question, but where did that lend Well?
Speaker 2:I think so You're. So you're highlighting there, like the parts that have to do with branding that don't work for you but, you're saying there is a part that you enjoy and like I guess what I'm wondering maybe it's kind of what I was saying before is is the part you enjoy maybe more about, like, how you're using like I mean kind of concrete about it visual stimuli to communicate or represent? Yeah what you're about.
Speaker 2:Because that like I, because again I can get on board with that, because like when I think about it with like how I dress, like I'm like, isn't that technically like a? Branding, I don't know Is that sort of the part that you enjoy, or is there a different piece of?
Speaker 1:it and I was like, oh God, but he was right, and I did, and I shifted and I, you know, I took the feedback, because that's what we do so you know, I don't know, here's where I'm at with it. I think it's a necessity. Personally, I think you have to have it as a professional. I don't know in today's world if you can't have it. And part of why we're also talking about this this episode is because check out our website. There's going to be a new when East Meets West website.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we already have our new logo I was like what's the word I was going to say? Icon. No the icon is the thing, guys, you're going to have to go into our….
Speaker 1:No, that's usually me, that's not you. Now I'm worried. No, I mean because it's like this topic. I'm like I don't know there's that yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, no, no, but yeah, we did like an updated rebranding. And you know, look, and I think maybe it's important to say this, because I talked to somebody once I can't remember who it was who said something to me like to the effect of like I think everybody is a brand, and I was like I don't really I don't can get on board with is like if you're um, if you're a business owner, right we are business owners and people listening might be a business owner who's not a mental health professional, for example that's right um.
Speaker 2:Branding is a part of business and I think it's also where, just like it's a little bit like it can get icky right because it's like it's capitalism, it's like consumerism, right, like where's the and so again, I'm just going to keep saying for myself, like the part that I can align with is like I'm just it's a visual represent. I'm trying to visually represent yeah in a shorthand what I'm about like. Give some you know, but branding can go deep. I mean it can marketing, etc.
Speaker 1:You know it's necessary for business, you know necessary and we outsource that for when he's me. And I like the person you were talking to, whoever that was, because I actually think I agree with them that I do think everyone is a brand. So, even somebody that's working in a blue collar, you know if you're going on an interview, you know, as you, interviewing is a brand. And that's where my performance psychology comes in in, because there's a lot of times we will work with people for their interview process.
Speaker 2:You know, sure, in any industry, you know, it's funny, it's like as we're talking, it's like not, it's actually not that funny because you're, this is what we talk about all the time like a semantics issue. I think a little bit here for me, because for me, branding I mean again, we're speaking in english, right, so the word brand or brand or the word branding. If we looked it up, pete probably can look. He loves the dictionary.
Speaker 1:He's going to it guys, I'm going, I'm going.
Speaker 2:Going to it. It has a very specific meaning, I think, related to like selling something. But I think what you're saying, pete, right now it's like it goes beyond selling. It is more around, like it's more about a communication or representation.
Speaker 1:Representation, yeah, so brand, yeah, brand no, you're gonna like this uh the promotion of a particular product or company by means of advertising and distinctive design. So that's, there's a sales piece.
Speaker 2:I think that's the part where it's like that is very specific and it could be icky, but it can also just be necessary and important and like. So there's a function from a business standpoint and in a capitalistic society, which is what we live in, right.
Speaker 1:I'm on the design side, Like that's. I think that was the part of definition that I really resonated with yeah that you're resonating with, Because I think I've always I envision things, you know like I envision this well with you but envision what this would look like, you know. And that's, I think, as a leader. That's always been the way that I approach projects is that I have good vision and I usually need the team around me to help, kind of execute yeah totally so I could you know a bathroom renovation?
Speaker 2:I see it, I'm like I know, yeah, same, I'm with you on that Like. I think we're not the same. I'm with you on that. I think we're very visual in terms of our learning.
Speaker 2:And it's interesting. I would be so curious to know what percentage of therapists are, because I think there's a lot of envisioning that we do in our work envisioning how you're going to help somebody. Conceptualizing we work with a lot of metaphors, right? Yes, um, we work with a lot of metaphors, right, um, so you know, I don't know, it's just interesting. It's like I think I think branding is specific, but I don't, you know. But I think there's pieces of it that maybe, like what you're saying, that aren't necessarily just um business, uh, adjacent, yeah no, because, like, what just came to mind for me is, like your branding is act, you know, and mindfulness, like that's.
Speaker 1:That's. That's what, that's what you get when, when you are my psychologist, that's what, that's what you get.
Speaker 2:That's yes, yes, that's what. Yeah, that's branding, yeah, that's you know.
Speaker 1:And so, as a result, you're not going to have like some sharp edges, like lightning pictures on your website like you're going to have like nice clouds and like sand and like the beautiful ocean when, if you come into my office, my office, your office is like yeah, beautiful actually a funny story, just really that.
Speaker 2:I remember I was in an office briefly when I went back to la that I was renting short term and and so it was already furnished and yeah and uh, I was building my current office and afterwards one of my patients said, when they were in my new office they were like yeah, this is this makes a lot more sense. They were like. In the other one they were like yeah, this is this makes a lot more sense. They were like and the other one they were like just I didn't. I was like really this is what you would pick.
Speaker 2:I was like it wasn't my stuff and she was like, okay, that makes a lot more sense. This is you, so there's your brand. Yeah, all right.
Speaker 1:And again you've got a beautiful brand.
Speaker 2:So well, thank you. Well, look, it's like the kicking and screaming. I'm like all right.
Speaker 1:And look, it only took one episode for me to get from the beginning of the kicking to the end. So it was five years for when East Meets West, as we're going to keep reminding ourselves of that New brand. So check out the website WhenEastMeetsWestcom WhenEastMeetsWestcom. And so check that out. And for anybody, as we started with today, we know nothing about branding, but I'm sure and
