Channel 2 - Interviews
Interviews from Flame CCR live times and prerecorded "Chat Room" programmes. Part of programmes broadcast on Flame CCR (Christian and Community Radio) in Merseyside and worldwide via www.flameradio.org.
Channel 2 - Interviews
CHAT ROOM - Bishop Keith Sinclair (Bishop of Birkenhead)
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Bishop Keith shares with John his understanding of what God might be like - along with his vision for Birkenhead and his love for Birkenhead Priory.
And now it's time on Flame C C R to take a look behind the studio's green door to find out who is in today's chat room.
SPEAKER_07Midnight. One more night without screening. Watch it till the morning comes green. Green dog. What that we could do.
SPEAKER_01And now are you listening?
SPEAKER_04Hello, you're listening to Flame Radio on 1521 Medium Wave and online. My name is John Cheek, and our guest in the chat room today is a very special guest. I'd like to say a very big hello to the Bishop of Birkenhead, the Reverend Keith Sinclair. Hello, Keith. Hi, John. Good to see you. Keith. You're the Bishop of Birkenhead. Okay. That was quite a position to be in. But for you, where did the story begin? Where did it start for you to get you all the way here now to being a bishop?
SPEAKER_00Well, I was born in London in fifty-two, in a smog, I'm told. Well, actually it was Westminster Hospital, so uh right in the middle in London. I've got two brothers either side of me. And in a way, it is a bit of a surprise to be a bit, because we had really very little exposure to the church or to God when we were little. For a time back there in the fifties, I think there was still that kind of oh well this is the thing to do, and there was a bit of c family connection as I discovered later with the church, but uh when me and my brothers w went along with my mum and dad to this, I think it was a congregational church we just created such merry hell that they just gave up. So um that was that. And um nothing you know spiritual happened apart from pretty dire school assemblies and hymn singing and I just didn't mean anything to me at all. And it was only really just as I was coming to the end of primary school and going up into my s or secondary school, my older brother and then I went on some Christian camps that were organized by Christian teachers in the Croydon area. I was in a place by Schultz and there was something called Croydon School Camp. There are quite a few of these things around. There's a great history of them with Crusaders and Scripture Union and but this was just Christian teachers from different schools in the Croydon area trying to do things for kids who were going to those schools. So between my last uh year at primary school and my first year at secondary, I started going on these camps, and that was the very first time I ever heard anyone talk about God as if he was real. The first time I ever heard anyone talk about Jesus again as if he was a real person and sort of said anything that might have anything to do with me. And over the course probably of two or three years they explained to me the gospel. I believed the gospel. I wrestled with the gospel because you can go through all sorts of experience on these camps, but you're gonna have to work it through when you get back home. And I reckon if I had to sort of date my conversion it would be to about the age of fourteen when I had actually decided I really was gonna follow Jesus Christ in my life.
SPEAKER_04Bishop Keith, you talk about this gospel. Can you explain to the listeners what this gospel is in a nutshell? And how did you convert to Jesus?
SPEAKER_00Well, as I think about what was going on then, the beginning was hearing about the person of Jesus and speaking truth to me, speaking truth about who God is and truth about who I am. I can't remember the exact words that were used then, but I remember the experience of hearing myself described. And it was a kind of double whammy because on the one hand I was being told I was loved by God, I was precious to God, I was made by God to know him and to love him, which was all great. And at the same time I was being told about my sins, my wrong, my disposition to be pulled in a direction that wasn't pleasing to God and was going to be judged by God. And although that may sound quite hard, actually, for me it was a bit of a liberation because it was like somebody was talking to me about truth. I recognised that I didn't have to pretend anymore either that I was all right and there was nothing wrong, or that I was so bad that there was nothing that anyone could do about it. And it it was that combination that really engaged me and made me think, well maybe this is worth thinking about and this person is worth listening to. And it was from then, in particular, as somebody was explaining about the death of Jesus, taking my sins, taking my judgment, going in my place in order to give me his life and his spirit and to raise me up, that I thought the conviction of truth from the Holy Spirit made me believe as millions of people have done around the world since then and now, to believe that this man was true and more than a good man, he was who he said he was, and as that was explained and explored, clearly something and someone more than simply a kind of a good man or a teacher, but God coming in human form. And so it was the kind of weaving together of all those things that brought me to that point where I was convicted of my sin. I didn't have to deny it, but I wasn't condemned by it because I knew he had taken the condemnation for me, and that then was a moment of liberation. And that was the point at which I was invited to pray a prayer based on John 3 20, which is often used Behold I stand at the door and knock if anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in. And I was taken through that prayer, and I, as it were, opened the door of my life to Jesus, and I believed the promise that He would come in, and He did. Amen. And that's a wonderful verse. And what's interesting about the verse actually, and I only discovered this quite a long time later on, it's not actually addressed to individuals at all. It's addressed to Christian communities, to a church. And the picture is as Jesus comes in and sits with us with the table, it's a bit like the Holy Communion. But that doesn't negate what was said to me. On the contrary, without that personal opening the door, there isn't a church in the first place. The church is the people who do that. And then when they meet together, he is with them together as much as he's with them on their own. So that was a very, very important beginning and established me in a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, a personal understanding of what his death and resurrection meant for me, and a realization personally that I needed to decide to follow him. And actually it wasn't simply a question of just, oh, okay, I've ticked that box or I doffed my cap in that direction. It actually meant that my life had to change and I had to live in obedience to him and follow him, whatever that might mean. And at that stage, of course, I have absolutely no idea what it meant, other than admitting to my parents that I was a Christian and at school being willing to be known as a Christian. Which is why I say it took me a few years, because on a Christian camp you can all be dead keen and everything, but when you're the only Christian in your school or in your home situation, it's a bit of a different story. And that was the test for me whether I was going to, in a sense, not be ashamed to belong to Jesus Christ. And it was when I got to that point of resolution and decision that I knew he has the words of eternal life.
SPEAKER_04Bishop Keith, you mentioned their words like true and the truth and quite clearly you were aware that you had latched onto the truth at that time, whilst you were still at school, at secondary school, did you have any idea of where the truth would lead you through life? Did you have any idea of any future paths or plans for your life?
SPEAKER_00No, at that stage not at all. Um at that stage it was simply about finding myself relaxing into who I was as a child of God, witnessing to friends and trying to to live a Christian in home and in school. It took me probably as I look back now, two or three years before I actually settled down into church or a youth group or a Christian community. All of these things were completely new to me. In fact, I still remember sort of thinking when I started to go to church regularly, I'll never keep this up and you know, look at me now, sort of thing. So it's wonderful how God takes you one step at a time and quite often I find that he doesn't show you necessarily what the long term is going to be, he just wants you to trust him for the next bit. And um I actually ended up loving my secondary school and there was lots of stuff going on with sports and plays and drama and occasionally some work. And the Christian Union is one of the things I'm passionate now about secondary school, in fact school's ministry. Because I came to faith myself through that. I'm so keen for churches to really be praying imaginatively about how they can be engaged in their secondary schools and in their primary schools. Whether they're church schools or not, is in one sense neither here nor there. That's where young people will be and that's where we need to be. And it's where, in a sense, my church was for the formative years of my Christian life. But what that meant long term, no, as I got towards uh sixth form and think you know, again I I thought, well, probably university. And that was just an extraordinary thing, really. I mean, actually I think a miracle because my parents were kind of gently warned that if I managed to scrape together some O levels that might be quite an achievement. And uh I managed to to pass them all, including physics and Latin. So I'm a great believer in the god of miracles because I can't think of any other explanation. And you know, I bumped along with A levels, which were okay, but um and I don't quite know why I did this, and I think I had a very encouraging headmaster, but uh I had a crack at the Oxbridge um exams, which in those days you could still do as a separate exam, which actually was just as well for me. And again, by some complete miracle, I went into Oxford. And that was a kind of amazing ending of a time at school where I'd had the all these kind of great opportunities and experiences and chance to kind of witness and grow as a Christian, and that was the next stage which was completely unexpected and uh an amazing thing to my family as as much as to me. Bishop Keith.
SPEAKER_04What time would this be now, roughly? Because you went to Oxford to study history. Would this be around the mid-1970s?
SPEAKER_00Thank you. Actually it was the early nineteen seventies. I went up in nineteen seventy-two to seventy-five, and um again just an amazing experience really. I I think I'm still in shock that I I managed to do it.
SPEAKER_04Was Oxford then still a bastion of the establishment or were things starting to change within Oxbridge?
SPEAKER_00They were starting to change, but the place that I was at Christchurch was very much a bastion of the establishment. Again, looking back now, it was an interesting time because the late sixties and the seventies were a time of increasingly rapid change and dissatisfaction and anger and frustration, and all that was very, very evident amongst some of the students. And you could see some of the up the dawn's almost loving tradition, but really lost how it was going to be sustained, really. So it was every time as challenging as a Christian. But I got involved in the Christian Union there and found a church there and so on, and we had missions there, and we had a guy called David Watson who came and did a couple of missions in my time there. So it was both very exciting but also very, very challenging, and again, in one sense so different from now, where people just kind of contemptuous, dismissive of Christ, regard you as being a bit of a joke, and yet at the same time respectful and curious and wondering how you could believe and what it meant, and so it was a very important time. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04It was during that period at Oxford University, Keith, obviously, that you were not only getting older physically, but also spiritually as a Christian. Were there any particular moments or any particular questions or challenges that you faced whilst at university that helped to shape your particular journey with God?
SPEAKER_00Let me just think of three of them. There are others, please don't think this is you know it was at Oxford that I started a worship at a Church of England church. I'd been in a Baptist church before then, and I went to a church called St. Abe's in Oxford, and it was an eye opener to me. It was fantastic. There was a kind of reverence. They still used the kind of old prayer book in those days, with some modifications. But the preaching and the passion was fantastic, the missionary challenge and all that. When I went up I I suppose I became aware of what you might call theological liberalism, and I thought the differences between the denominations were not about whether you were a Baptist or an Anglican or a Presbyterian or a Methodist or a whatever, but whether you believed the Bible, whether you were really going to let God's revelation shape you, or whether you're going to redefine that revelation in terms of the world's experience. I know that's a bit of an oversimplification, but that was quite an important issue for me at the time. And to have the privilege of having people like John Stott and others kind of preach and expound scripture was just like you know, it was just like lights coming on all over the place. And so it was a great privilege to be able to kind of experience that and to throw myself into that. So that was one experience. But alongside that, and particularly some of the tensions between different Christian groups and organizations were going on, it was a time when the charismatic movement was beginning to get going, and a group from America was brought over by a guy who was a chaplain at one of the colleges who then later became Bishop of Carlisle, Graham Dow, a group called the Fisher Folk, and they brought this kind of again this sense of community, this sense of worship. But I think possibly the most defining moment for me in my three years at Oxford was just before the end. It had nothing to do with Oxford, it was the fact that uh just after Easter before my last term, my father died very, very suddenly. Uh he just collapsed and there was no warning whatever. And that was the first time I experienced death. I only realised he was dead as I was trying to give him the kiss of life on the kitchen floor. And it was quite shocking. I realized afterwards that a lot of my reaction was to do with shock as well as with grief. And um I found it both very testing in terms of the resurrection. He was supportive, he had been in the war, he'd had not a particularly great upbringing in terms of his experience of church and things, but he was very sympathetic and and I had to kind of question God about was what I was believing true. It wasn't a question of well the resurrection is nice for you if you want to believe that sort of thing. Is it true or not? Either it's true or it isn't true. You know, there's no kind of well it can be true for you but it's not true for you. And um that was quite an important challenge for me and and I felt God sort of almost shouting back to me, you know, of course it's true. And a kind of a sense of being held. I remember there was a lady in the church I think I was just kind of going around in a complete daze really, and I just said, you know, to her one day I you know, I just can't pray, I can't do anything. And she just said to me, Don't worry, everybody else is praying for you. And it was just oh it was just amazing. Just that sense of being held up by other people and the church was a wonderful, wonderful experience. And again, just shaped me in understanding what the church was. But the thing was that that meant I was in a complete mess, really. I don't know how I got through it that last term, and I don't quite know how I managed to get a degree, but I did by the grace of God. But I'd been thinking about what to do next, but in a way, as much as for my sake as for anybody else, the the rector of the church I was at, St. Ebbs was willing to take me on as a sort of student intern for a year, and I was able to help with some of the student work of the church and so on, which I didn't know how much I was good to the student work, but it certainly helped. Me back together and it was a very, very important time. Because as so often happens when you go through something quite traumatic, it often has the effect of opening up other stuff as well, and that needs attention and time and and counsel and help and all of that was very, very important to me.
SPEAKER_04Bishop Keith, of course, as anybody who has suffered a close bereavement will know an experience like that shocking and alarming in in your case. It was all bereavement serves to sharpen the senses. You really go through a period of time where you realise what is important in life and what isn't. It sharpens the senses on many levels. Was it during that period after the bereavement that you began to sense or discern some sort of calling into the ordained ministry?
SPEAKER_00You're absolutely right about that sense of sharpening and perspective. There's a lovely prayer, and it's taken from I think at the end of 2 Corinthians 4 that we so pass through things temporal that we lose not the things eternal. And uh figuring out the difference between the two is a pretty important thing. But interestingly, John, uh actually in one sense and I don't know to what extent it was the experience of O Dad's death or just the shock of it or my own sort of sense of not getting my head together, that I almost wanted to run away from Christian ministry. Or at least I wanted to test out what life was like as a Christian in the big bad world and to get out of the educational institution, including the church kind of institution in a way. And so what I ended up doing was to go down to London to law college and I thought about going into law not because I thought I had a particular vocation to it, but because my first degree was in history and I thought that if I did law, if I was being called to the ministry, it would be a good preparation. And I was actually also very, very interested in people like William Wilberforce and some of the Christian politicians, and I thought, well, if that was the future I was to go down, then law would be a good preparation for that. And I didn't really have very much sense beyond that of that as a reason for doing it. So I went down I did a a law college in those days, you did all in twelve months, and then you did articles and I worked for in the City of London in a firm for about four years, training. Which gave me all the experiences done in a sense that I hoped it would, but I think it also confirmed in me that I wasn't really being called to be a lawyer or a politician, actually. A long story, but so it was quite an important time of testing. This was the late seventies. I had the great experience of being at all Souls Langham Place when John Stock was there and being in a reading group with him, and so just all this kind of relating the face of the modern world at one level and yet my experience as a lawyer and with the political world as it was at that time, though it was fascinating and I don't have any regrets about having been involved in it, I thought I don't think this is really my calling. And when I went to see the then vicar of the church that I was in about well, you know, am I being called this was now towards the end of my time working in in the city of London expecting him to say and I would have been quite happy if he had said no no no, you carry on, you be a solicitor, you go and do this, whatever. In a sense it would have been a relief to me. But I thought I had to now at least face this part of me and see whether I would be encouraged to test it. And he he said, No, I think you should test it. And I did. And that took me to Birmingham, it took me to a Christian lawyer who was willing to take me on, knowing that I was thinking about ordination. That was a life-changing moment. I lived in Handsworth in a multiracial area for and I realized as I was going to the selection conference, which is what you have to do what you still have to do in terms of ordained ministry. And it wasn't until after they said to me, No, we think you should you know go forward for training, that I realized I had to make my decision. And I hadn't made it. I'd been relying on what other people had said. And I prayed I sometimes say this to people thinking about guidance and about God speaking to them, and and I can very much remember the experience for me after I've been praying for some days and weeks really about this. I had this strong sense of God saying to me, What are you talking to me about for it? You know perfectly well what to do, get on with it. And it was almost that let go and let God. And it's when I gave in to what God was saying that I thought, okay. And I've never looked back really.
SPEAKER_05We want to see things for the way they really are. Open our eyes, open the eyes of my heart.
SPEAKER_11Open the eyes of my heart. I want to see.
SPEAKER_05I want to see. Lift it up, let me give you.
SPEAKER_04For people who might be listening to this in Birkenhead or in Liverpool or Runcorn or Chester or North Wales, they might be listening to this and thinking, This is all very good, but this God that you keep talking about, what's he really like? This is all a man-made process, perhaps. This God you're talking about, is he really real? What's he like?
SPEAKER_00Well, I said before that the experience in Oxford shaped me for something that was to come later on, and it was when I was in Birmingham, and again it's a long story, but I ended up living in Hansworth and I came across a black gospel choir, and I spent quite a few months in fellowship in a black Pentecostal church as the only white person. And I don't think I ever experienced both such an overwhelming sense of the love of God, breaking down barriers, and a sense also of my own sin, including the sin of racism actually. Something had been taken in by my mother's milk, hardly noticed it. And one of the most profound experiences that I had there was the experience of the washing of the saints' feet, which in the Black Pentecostal Church is still done at communion. And have your feet washed by a West Indian bus driver in Birmingham, and then for you to wash his feet was something. So if people say to me, Oh this God isn't real, I tell you what, in Birmingham then, with racial tensions, with riots on the streets, a white solicitor and a black bus driver washing each other's feet, but that's the God who I worship, who came down because we did it, because he washed our feet, and his washing of our feet was to prepare us to understand what his dying on the cross was. And if we get to the cross and the resurrection, and this is my experience through all the ups and downs of my life and my ministry in Birmingham, in Coventry and in Birkenhead, is that when we connect with him, when we allow him maybe more to connect with us, when we allow the barriers and the pretences to be stripped away, uh that he kind of can get right down into the core of who we are and wash us and cleanse us and for us to be humbled enough to know that we can do that with others, he may be completely different from us, then we find ourselves raised up and renewed. And that's it, that's the gospel. And the church is to be a sign of the gospel and actually bring it right up to date. Now I don't know about other people. I'm not going to be holding my breath thinking the new Jerusalem has arrived because whatever government has taken shape. We must pray for them, we must respect them, and it's important. I believe that. But I have no expectation that things are going to be significantly different than they were. Because for whatever good the politicians can and should do, what we need is the gospel of Jesus Christ. We need relationship with God and we need deep relationship with one another, and that's what God has come to bring us, He's come to put us right, and we just need not to be in any denial about that need. You know, to people who are listening, that's what I would say. We may have all different stories and we will have all come from different places, but there isn't a place that we're in where that reality doesn't need to come and won't bring a profound change when it does.
SPEAKER_04And finally, Bishop Keith, Bishop of Birkenhead, in just uh a couple of minutes. Can you talk about this area that you've come to and what you've found and what you think of it, and perhaps maybe w what might be your hopes for Birkenhead, for Wirrell and for the wider region?
SPEAKER_00Well, I want to say we have loved being up here. It's very different from the West Midlands. It isn't as multiracial. There are other differences. But my wife, our three children, we've been so welcomed, and it's been a great blessing to us, and we we feel very much at home and love both the mixture of communities that are on the Wirral and in Cheshire and around our diocese in particular, and even getting across the Mersey to Liverpool sometimes. Let me just give you one thing, John, which has been something of of a passion really. Just one of the initiatives that started up on the Wirral some years ago now, realizing that um on the Mersey side and the D side, the life expectancy difference is something between twelve and fifteen years. Okay, it's quite extensive. When this was first pointed out to me by the leader of the the Labour Group on Wirral and the chief executive, I felt kind of the iron enter my soul and I thought, Lord, this should not be. And again, if the church is to be the church, if we're in Tranmere or Birkenhead or Wallacey, and if we're in West Kirby and Haswell and Hoylake, then we're in relationship. Does God want to bring us a bit closer together here in order to just love each other and say, look, this isn't We told the story of two young girls, one brought up in Tranmere and one brought up in Heswell, and by eight years of age, because their life experiences are so totally different, their life expectancy is different. And yet God loves each of them, and God came for both of them. And so in the way in which we've been trying to encourage just small scale building relationships, not do any great program setting, but just saying listen to God, listen to the word of God, and look at what's happening around you and what is God asking you to do and be. And that's part of the prayer to see relationships, to see churches coming and discovering their neighbour, loving your neighbour. Not rocket science, it's basic stuff. But what does it mean? And finding out what it means, and then finding out what that then does to you in terms of your love for God. And that's been one of the most humbling and thrilling things to be part of. And it's just kind of one part of the the rich tapestry and um ministry in the schools, how we encourage uh young people to in a sense experience God as I experienced him is another of my passions. But that would be my prayer, that the reality of Jesus and the life of Jesus would be lived and known in us and through us. Because as Peter said to him, Lord, you have the words of eternal life.
SPEAKER_04Listen to God and listen to the words of God.
SPEAKER_06We saw that this man had life in himself, and he could give it to anyone he chose. We were witnessing something that nobody had ever seen before, and we were just beginning to understand.
SPEAKER_08Do they know the truth or not?
unknownWhat do you all be?
SPEAKER_06Jesus said, Blessed are you, son of my own. For flesh and blood is not revealed this to you, but my father, who's in heaven. And I tell you, you repeat it, and on this rock, I'll build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail again.
SPEAKER_04The Reverend Keith Sinclair.
SPEAKER_00Well, the Priory goes back to the eleven hundreds, I believe. I'm not a great one for date, so you'll have to go down there and check them out for yourself. But we're talking round about the hundred or so years after the Norman conquest. And as far as we know, there was a community of Benedictine monks. Don't know how many exactly, could have been a dozen, twenty. Some of these communities were quite small, we might think, but uh they were the kind of heartbeat of the medieval church. And the Birkenhead Priory coming from prayer, community of those committed to the order of Saint Benedict, and to pray along his order during the day, uh to pray and to work and to witness within a community, very simply was there, as I say, from about the eleventh century through to the dissolution of the monasteries in the sixteenth century. So we have a witness and a community which really defines the beginning of Birkenhead, covering a period of some three, four hundred years. And some of the remains of that first building are still there. You can see the the courtyard, you can see the hall, you can imagine where the abbot would have lived, you can see the chapel and the meeting room and the renovation that uh Will City Council have done has just been fantastic. Whenever I have a visitor, I take them down there because it just gives them a sense of the history and the spiritual legacy that we are all beneficiaries of in the modern day period. And there's a great little simple museum there w which says a bit about the life and and what the monks would have been like. And of course, one of their main claims to fame is that they started off the Mersey Ferry, and they were the people who were given the right by I think it was one of the little Earls of Chester to ferry people across the Mersey, and uh that's what they did. And uh that's obviously something that is going on to this very day. So that lovely combination of the spiritual and the practical. Some people think of monks as just kind of being set a away from the world, and in a way they are because they're wanting to give themselves to a life of prayer and poverty and obedience. But it's actually very much a a ministry of service as well. Serving the community, clearly with a ferry, there would have been some simple farming going on as well. And one of the lovely things about the church today is that there's been quite a resurgence of Christian communities, some inheriting the old patterns, some new. And um I think it's something to honor. And to treasure and to inspire really now, because if you go down to the priory, you have it absolutely next door to Camelair Shipyard and a very different kind of community. And I love going to the Priory because it reminds me of how prayer and a commercial enterprise next door to it, which is for the beneficiary of Birkenhead in these days, these things are to be held together. And just a final plug, the priory after the the the dissolution of the monastery by Henry the Eighth and the buildings used for other buildings almost certainly in the very small village that Birkenhead would have been there. As the population started to grow with the development of the docks and the shipyard, so St. Mary's Church was built there, and the tower is still there. I take visitors up there and you get a fantastic view right across the Mersey, right across Birkenhead. And uh that's also been renovated. The church is no longer used because actually most people don't live around there anymore, the b the population has moved out. But uh it's still part of Christ the King Anglican parish of Birkenhead, and every month services are still held there, baptisms are held there, and uh a healing prayer is held there, and it's great. So it's a really, really wonderful resource. Some people say to me, Bishop Keith, do you have a church anywhere? Because I'm part of the Diet of Chester and Chester Cathedral is the kind of base, if there is one, under Bishop Peter. But if I had anywhere, I think it would be the Priory. I love to go there and just to feel the kind of we sometimes talk about the communion of saints, the witness of those who've gone before us, and uh that's one of those places where you can feel that and know that reality.
SPEAKER_04Thank you.
SPEAKER_10Your loss of love so strong and life so draw. Restore us, Lord, revive your church again, let justice flow by grief and righteousness like a never failing stream over the nations now. Where is the ease? Oh precious children star the choice of war increase their prayer store and mercy for give us to Lord, provide your church again Let justice and righteousness like a never failing stream Dark powers are poised to flood our streets with faith and fear We must obey Let love reclaim the lives that suits me away and let your key have mercy, Lord Forgive us Lord, restore us glorify your church again and justice that I can ever fail into your glorious cross shall triumph in this land your suffering church and give us my church again Let justice flow like rivers and righteousness like a never failing stream, a never failing stream how father who art in heaven hallow be thy name, thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as in hell.
SPEAKER_08Give us today our daily bread and for give our sins as we forgive each one of those who since against us and lead us not to the time of trial, but deliver us from evil for the kingdom the power.
SPEAKER_01We've closed the chap room door, but please tune in next time to Flame C C R on 1521 Medium Wave for more from Green Door Studios chapter on the Green Door. We hope you enjoyed this program, which is under the copyright of Rural Christian Media Limited. Details of the Flame CCR broadcasts and webcasts are on our website www.flameradio.org. Thank you for listening.