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Armen Ashotyan - Reflections on Life as a Political Prisoner, Attacks on the Church and Sovereignty | Ep 465, Aug 28, 2025

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Reflections on Life as a Political Prisoner, Attacks on the Church and Sovereignty

Conversations on Groong - August 28, 2025


Topics

  • Imprisonment and Political Persecution
  • International and Diaspora Response
  • Pashinyan Regime Attack on the Church
  • The Managed Capitulation Process


Guest


Hosts


Episode 465 | Recorded: August 27, 2025


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Asbed (00:00:04):

Hello, everyone, and welcome to this Conversations on the Groong episode.

Asbed (00:00:08):

Our guest today is none other than Mr.

Asbed (00:00:10):

Armen Ashotyan,

Asbed (00:00:11):

vice president of the Republican Party of Armenia,

Asbed (00:00:14):

the second largest parliamentary opposition party in the country.

Asbed (00:00:18):

Mr. Ashotyan was imprisoned and later put under house arrest for political reasons and

Asbed (00:00:23):

was the most prominent political prisoner in Armenia until very recently,

Asbed (00:00:27):

when his house arrest was modified to administrative supervision earlier this

Asbed (00:00:32):

month. This is,

Asbed (00:00:33):

we believe,

Asbed (00:00:34):

his first English language interview since he was released from house arrest.

Hovik (00:00:38):

But first, folks, an obligatory request for your support.

Hovik (00:00:43):

We are the only English language podcast that is producing quality content that you

Hovik (00:00:49):

are witnessing right now in a...

Hovik (00:00:51):

frequent and regular manner and we wanted to thank you for your trust and we wanted

Hovik (00:00:56):

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Hovik (00:01:00):

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Hovik (00:01:05):

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Hovik (00:01:06):

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Hovik (00:01:11):

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Hovik (00:01:17):

There are no hidden preconditions,

Hovik (00:01:18):

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Hovik (00:01:19):

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Hovik (00:01:33):

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Asbed (00:01:37):

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Asbed (00:01:40):

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Asbed (00:01:43):

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Asbed (00:01:56):

Thank you, folks.

Asbed (00:01:58):

And on with the show.

Asbed (00:01:59):

Armen Ashotyan, welcome back to The Groong Podcast.

Ashotyan (00:02:02):

Thank you very much for your kind invitation.

Ashotyan (00:02:04):

I'm very glad to be back with you.

Asbed (00:02:06):

It's great to have you free.

Asbed (00:02:09):

Yeah, great to see you.

Ashotyan (00:02:10):

I would say partially free, but it's incomparable with the condition I was set previously in.

Hovik (00:02:17):

Mr. Ashotyan, on June 14, 2023, you were taken into custody and put into pretrial detention.

Hovik (00:02:24):

You spent the next 25 months under either solitary confinement,

Hovik (00:02:28):

imprisonment or house arrest until very recently.

Hovik (00:02:32):

For those interested in the details of Mr.

Hovik (00:02:34):

Ashotyan's case,

Hovik (00:02:35):

check out episode 343 of this podcast,

Hovik (00:02:38):

where we highlight his case with our expert guest,

Hovik (00:02:41):

Rafael Ishkhanyan.

Hovik (00:02:42):

But earlier this month,

Hovik (00:02:44):

Mr.

Hovik (00:02:45):

Ashotyan, your house arrest got modified to administrative supervision.

Hovik (00:02:49):

You are now able to leave your home during the day,

Hovik (00:02:52):

and most importantly,

Hovik (00:02:53):

you are able to talk to the press,

Hovik (00:02:55):

something that you have been denied for the past two plus years.

Hovik (00:03:00):

And of course, there are some conditions attached to your administrative supervision as well.

Hovik (00:03:05):

But to begin with,

Hovik (00:03:07):

can you tell us about your experience over the past two years as a prisoner of the

Hovik (00:03:10):

Pashinyan regime?

Hovik (00:03:12):

And what did you do to deserve this treatment?

Ashotyan (00:03:16):

Thank you very much for your invitation.

Ashotyan (00:03:18):

First of all, I would like to thank your podcast and all of you personally for your attention to

Ashotyan (00:03:24):

the question of political prisoners in Armenia.

Ashotyan (00:03:27):

It's not only my case,

Ashotyan (00:03:28):

unfortunately,

Ashotyan (00:03:29):

political prisoners in Armenia were numerous from the beginning of the Pashinyan

Ashotyan (00:03:35):

regime and now

Ashotyan (00:03:37):

they are hitting the anterior court of more than 30 persons imprisoned by the

Ashotyan (00:03:42):

Persian regime because of their political views,

Ashotyan (00:03:44):

or even prisoners of conscience also are there,

Ashotyan (00:03:48):

I mean archbishops,

Ashotyan (00:03:50):

etc.

Ashotyan (00:03:51):

A second note I would make before, a main question.

Ashotyan (00:03:56):

to be collaborated on is that I am very sorry for my English.

Ashotyan (00:04:00):

You can understand.

Asbed (00:04:01):

Your English is great.

Asbed (00:04:03):

No, no, no.

Ashotyan (00:04:04):

No problem.

Ashotyan (00:04:05):

No, I mean that during this imprisonment,

Ashotyan (00:04:08):

even under the house arrest,

Ashotyan (00:04:10):

I have no chances to practice actively English properly.

Ashotyan (00:04:13):

So I feel that it's not the shape I should be in.

Ashotyan (00:04:17):

So I hope that you will be very...

Ashotyan (00:04:22):

conducive to the old mistakes of vocabulary missing that now i feel myself because

Ashotyan (00:04:28):

of the lack of the practice because in prison you wouldn't be able to practice even

Ashotyan (00:04:33):

armenian properly so i'm not speaking about english now coming back to the main

Ashotyan (00:04:37):

question so uh you know i don't like to speak about my prison experience not

Ashotyan (00:04:43):

because

Ashotyan (00:04:45):

It's very personal and not because it's something wrong or I'm not proud of.

Ashotyan (00:04:50):

No, it's the pages of my life that I try to go through with dignity and the pride,

Ashotyan (00:04:56):

but I don't like to speak about them because

Ashotyan (00:04:59):

The problems I faced,

Ashotyan (00:05:02):

the obstacles,

Ashotyan (00:05:03):

the restrictions are nothing in comparison with other disasters,

Ashotyan (00:05:08):

real disasters happened in my country during these two years.

Ashotyan (00:05:12):

And I can't pretend to now to...

Ashotyan (00:05:16):

I can't pretend and I wouldn't do to be a kind of imprisoned hero because the real

Ashotyan (00:05:22):

heroes are now fighting for Armenian dignity in Baku prisons,

Ashotyan (00:05:26):

the real heroes...

Ashotyan (00:05:27):

They're losing their life during Artsakh ethnic cleansing.

Ashotyan (00:05:31):

And so my personal story is nothing.

Ashotyan (00:05:33):

It's very important for my family, for my friends, for my party, for myself.

Ashotyan (00:05:38):

But it's not the kind of story I would like to sell out to the public as something

Ashotyan (00:05:43):

sentimental or heroic because it's zero in comparison with what Armenian and

Ashotyan (00:05:49):

Armenian people are facing today.

Ashotyan (00:05:52):

uh they're facing during two years and they're facing now so uh you mentioned uh

Ashotyan (00:05:58):

that yeah now i have uh some restrictions put on me but most important thing that

Ashotyan (00:06:03):

i'm free to speak to you to the press but one restriction is still uh very very

Ashotyan (00:06:10):

influential on my political activity and the political

Ashotyan (00:06:14):

activity of my party.

Ashotyan (00:06:15):

I mean, I am still under the travel ban.

Ashotyan (00:06:18):

And as you know,

Ashotyan (00:06:19):

maybe I am responsible for the Republican Party's foreign affairs,

Ashotyan (00:06:25):

international relations.

Ashotyan (00:06:27):

And you can imagine that this restriction put on me and still kept by the court is

Ashotyan (00:06:34):

harmful for our foreign policy activity abroad.

Ashotyan (00:06:38):

I would like to underline that my friends from my party are doing their best to try

Ashotyan (00:06:44):

and replace me in some international frameworks.

Ashotyan (00:06:47):

But this travel ban is also very ridiculous because,

Ashotyan (00:06:51):

you know,

Ashotyan (00:06:52):

even being accused in this very...

Ashotyan (00:06:55):

a bizarre story of so-called money laundering.

Ashotyan (00:06:59):

I was allowed once to go to Vienna to participate in international seminar with

Ashotyan (00:07:07):

Azerbaijani representatives around the Nagorno-Karabakh problem.

Ashotyan (00:07:11):

So there is no fear that I will fly out of the country, flee of the country.

Ashotyan (00:07:17):

So this restriction is also a restriction on my political activity, not on my personal life.

Ashotyan (00:07:25):

I think that it's very clear that any regime like Pashinyan's regime,

Ashotyan (00:07:30):

but we should say that this regime is unique,

Ashotyan (00:07:33):

it's not any.

Ashotyan (00:07:34):

It's unique on the territory area of Council of Europe.

Ashotyan (00:07:39):

This regime came to the power under the most democratic mottos and promises Armenia ever heard.

Ashotyan (00:07:47):

now is actively transforming itself to the autocratic, the new autocratic regime.

Ashotyan (00:07:53):

When I say new,

Ashotyan (00:07:54):

it means that the autocracies are also changing,

Ashotyan (00:07:59):

evolving,

Ashotyan (00:08:00):

and Pashinyan is building up in Armenia this kind of modern autocracy where not

Ashotyan (00:08:06):

only force,

Ashotyan (00:08:07):

but also manipulation,

Ashotyan (00:08:09):

twisting,

Ashotyan (00:08:10):

administrative resources are widely used.

Ashotyan (00:08:12):

to cementing pashinyan's grip to the power that we are facing now so uh my

Ashotyan (00:08:21):

detention was a part of this story story of spreading fear of putting people in the

Ashotyan (00:08:29):

uh in the doubt to show that if Armen Ashotyan who is

Ashotyan (00:08:35):

very far from being perceived as a corrupt person.

Ashotyan (00:08:38):

And even during our rule,

Ashotyan (00:08:40):

the rule of political power,

Ashotyan (00:08:41):

our Republican Party,

Ashotyan (00:08:43):

so no,

Ashotyan (00:08:44):

I were accused in many things,

Ashotyan (00:08:46):

but not in corruption.

Ashotyan (00:08:47):

So when this fabricated case has been put on the table,

Ashotyan (00:08:53):

it meant that Nikol Pashinyan shows that he's able and ready to do everything,

Ashotyan (00:08:59):

even out of box,

Ashotyan (00:09:01):

out of order, out of law.

Ashotyan (00:09:04):

If I could be accused in this very bizarre case.

Ashotyan (00:09:11):

So everybody should be afraid of him.

Ashotyan (00:09:14):

And this policy of spreading fear,

Ashotyan (00:09:17):

of spreading doubt,

Ashotyan (00:09:19):

of making people disappointed is actively used now.

Ashotyan (00:09:23):

And now when we face the detention of the most influential and rich Armenians,

Ashotyan (00:09:34):

businessmen, I mean Mr.

Ashotyan (00:09:35):

Samvel Karapetyan,

Ashotyan (00:09:36):

when we face the detainment of two high-ranking spiritual officials.

Ashotyan (00:09:45):

So when we face the detainment of the acting member of the parliament,

Ashotyan (00:09:49):

I mean Mr.

Ashotyan (00:09:50):

Arthur Sargsyan and member of the parliament of Nagorno-Karabakh,

Ashotyan (00:09:54):

Mr.

Ashotyan (00:09:55):

David Galstyan,

Ashotyan (00:09:56):

the parents of the heroes,

Ashotyan (00:09:59):

of Karabakh war etc so it means that Pashinyan has no red lines at all even in this

Ashotyan (00:10:07):

kind of activity so autocracy is blooming here in armenia and unfortunately the

Ashotyan (00:10:13):

relevant international institutions

Ashotyan (00:10:16):

responsible for the reporting and noting and criticizing the situations in

Ashotyan (00:10:23):

countries like ours,

Ashotyan (00:10:24):

are very silent.

Ashotyan (00:10:26):

And so my case, why I'm so active now in promoting

Ashotyan (00:10:31):

as a fight for the freedom of other political prisoners because I am one of them,

Ashotyan (00:10:37):

I was one of them and I am now out and I could be and should be their voice outside

Ashotyan (00:10:43):

of the prisons to raise awareness about these political persecutions both in

Ashotyan (00:10:49):

Armenia and abroad.

Hovik (00:10:52):

Mr. Ashotyan, I know you said you don't want to talk about yourself,

Hovik (00:10:55):

but I think it's important to highlight it as a case study.

Hovik (00:11:00):

As far as I know,

Hovik (00:11:01):

out of your two-year restriction of your freedom,

Hovik (00:11:04):

you spent a lot of it in prison.

Hovik (00:11:06):

You only got house arrest recently,

Hovik (00:11:09):

but even when you were in prison,

Hovik (00:11:11):

a lot of it,

Hovik (00:11:12):

at least in the initial stages,

Hovik (00:11:14):

was spent in solitary confinement.

Hovik (00:11:16):

Now, I know we should move on, but I want to ask, what was it like?

Hovik (00:11:21):

How many times a month were you allowed to see anyone,

Hovik (00:11:25):

your family members,

Hovik (00:11:26):

your friends, and what is your thought about that kind of a strict restriction being placed on

Hovik (00:11:31):

someone?

Hovik (00:11:32):

I know it's not just yourself,

Hovik (00:11:33):

because there are other political prisoners who get the same kind of treatment.

Hovik (00:11:37):

I think even Bagrat Srbazan and our archbishops got solitary confinement.

Hovik (00:11:44):

What can you tell us about that practice specifically?

Ashotyan (00:11:47):

There is a huge temptation to go sentimental,

Ashotyan (00:11:54):

not about myself,

Ashotyan (00:11:55):

but about my family who were facing these challenges and were overcoming these

Ashotyan (00:12:00):

challenges day by day,

Ashotyan (00:12:02):

especially my kids,

Ashotyan (00:12:04):

my wife, a parent and family in the broader context.

Ashotyan (00:12:09):

But I will stop here because, yes, I spent 15 months in the

Ashotyan (00:12:13):

Detainment center in the prison,

Ashotyan (00:12:15):

in solitary chamber,

Ashotyan (00:12:17):

camera,

Ashotyan (00:12:19):

I don't know the exact English word.

Ashotyan (00:12:21):

I didn't use it in my diplomatic activity before,

Ashotyan (00:12:24):

so it's a new experience to find out the right words for the conditions we faced.

Ashotyan (00:12:30):

And 11 months under the house arrest,

Ashotyan (00:12:32):

with very strict restrictions,

Ashotyan (00:12:34):

especially towards the freedom of expression and freedom of movement,

Ashotyan (00:12:39):

for sure.

Ashotyan (00:12:41):

The conditions in detention centers all over the country are really terrible.

Ashotyan (00:12:49):

And frankly speaking,

Ashotyan (00:12:51):

it's not only because of Pashinyan's regime policy,

Ashotyan (00:12:54):

but it's a long-lasting problem from the first days of regaining Armenians'

Ashotyan (00:13:00):

independence.

Ashotyan (00:13:03):

One of the prisons has been built with EU support in 2015,

Ashotyan (00:13:08):

if I am not mistaken,

Ashotyan (00:13:11):

Armavir Detention Center.

Ashotyan (00:13:15):

And all other centers are very outdated with anti-sanitary conditions.

Ashotyan (00:13:22):

I should say that the staff of the prison where I was spending my months,

Ashotyan (00:13:27):

more than a year,

Ashotyan (00:13:29):

the staff was quite professional,

Ashotyan (00:13:31):

so I have no claims to them.

Ashotyan (00:13:34):

But the conditions, when I say condition, I mean...

Ashotyan (00:13:38):

actually everything.

Ashotyan (00:13:39):

So starting from the infrastructure and finishing with all other matters needed

Ashotyan (00:13:49):

even for the men imprisoned for their at least dignified life.

Ashotyan (00:13:56):

So this heritage, this legacy of Soviet era, you know, detainment center when every prisoner

Ashotyan (00:14:04):

were object not a subject of this suppressive undignifying treatment so this legacy

Ashotyan (00:14:13):

still persists and it's another problem it's not political so I can't say that I

Ashotyan (00:14:18):

was especially mistreated by these authorities because these kind of conditions bad

Ashotyan (00:14:25):

conditions this mistreatment if we could call it like this were widespread and it's

Ashotyan (00:14:31):

not because of the stuff but because of this

Ashotyan (00:14:34):

legacy of old-fashioned anti-human Soviet prisoner system.

Asbed (00:14:42):

Armen, you mentioned that there are dozens of political prisoners in this country still.

Asbed (00:14:47):

And we're talking about people who have been arrested clearly for their political

Asbed (00:14:53):

views and speech.

Asbed (00:14:55):

Now, let's look at the political side of all this.

Asbed (00:14:58):

It's common knowledge that before 2018,

Asbed (00:15:00):

whenever there was an allegation of political imprisonment,

Asbed (00:15:05):

European Union and Western diplomats in general went to great lengths to expose the

Asbed (00:15:09):

cases to the point of taking basically turn to attend the court hearings.

Asbed (00:15:15):

As the second in command of the RPA,

Asbed (00:15:17):

the Republican Party of Armenia,

Asbed (00:15:19):

you have been widely known among EU parliamentarians and politicians.

Asbed (00:15:24):

And thanks to the RPA's strong tradition of parliamentary diplomacy,

Asbed (00:15:28):

several international organizations,

Asbed (00:15:30):

including the EPP,

Asbed (00:15:31):

the European People's Party,

Asbed (00:15:33):

have issued statements in support of your case.

Asbed (00:15:36):

Meanwhile, other political prisoners we've spoken with

Asbed (00:15:39):

have all said that they've been consistently ignored by the EU and other Western diplomats.

Asbed (00:15:45):

What are your thoughts about this?

Asbed (00:15:47):

And do you consider the amount of support that you have received from the

Asbed (00:15:50):

international community proportional to the support that would have been received

Asbed (00:15:55):

in the past, especially during,

Asbed (00:15:57):

let's say, the Republican administration?

Ashotyan (00:16:00):

Dear Asbed, it's very, very painful question for me.

Ashotyan (00:16:06):

Why?

Ashotyan (00:16:07):

Because as a man who were responsible for also European direction of our

Ashotyan (00:16:12):

inter-parliamentary and after that inter-diplomacy,

Ashotyan (00:16:16):

I was and I am still proponent of

Ashotyan (00:16:20):

real European values.

Ashotyan (00:16:21):

So these values for me are based on the Judeo-Christian legacy of the Europe,

Ashotyan (00:16:27):

based on the Enlightenment values of the Europe,

Ashotyan (00:16:30):

based on the traditional,

Ashotyan (00:16:32):

for me,

Ashotyan (00:16:33):

conservative, democratic,

Ashotyan (00:16:34):

Christian democratic values of the Europe.

Ashotyan (00:16:37):

So I still believe in these values because Armenia was one of the cradle for these

Ashotyan (00:16:42):

values as a Haitian country.

Ashotyan (00:16:45):

And these values are not geopolitical for me.

Ashotyan (00:16:48):

So I were pursuing this kind of campaign to promoting these values.

Ashotyan (00:16:54):

It's not geopolitical campaign,

Ashotyan (00:16:56):

but it was a real civilizational campaign,

Ashotyan (00:16:59):

raising of political awareness.

Asbed (00:17:02):

I agree with you.

Ashotyan (00:17:03):

These are universal human rights.

Ashotyan (00:17:05):

Exactly, exactly.

Ashotyan (00:17:06):

And they are not depending on the country, on the man, or the geopolitical interest.

Ashotyan (00:17:11):

EU,

Ashotyan (00:17:12):

by me, were perceived for a long time as maybe the only geopolitical superpower focused

Ashotyan (00:17:19):

not only on interests as US or Russia or China,

Ashotyan (00:17:24):

but also on the values.

Ashotyan (00:17:27):

maybe i was quite naive at that time thinking that the real politics depends not

Ashotyan (00:17:33):

only the calculations but also on the heart and the and the consciousness so this

Ashotyan (00:17:39):

is a bit this was the reality and the activity of European diplomats international

Ashotyan (00:17:45):

organizations before

Ashotyan (00:17:47):

coup d'état of 2018,

Ashotyan (00:17:50):

yes, was political,

Ashotyan (00:17:51):

was geopolitical,

Ashotyan (00:17:53):

was political,

Ashotyan (00:17:54):

and our government were accused several times for not respecting properly human

Ashotyan (00:18:02):

rights, etc.,

Ashotyan (00:18:03):

also because of political reasons.

Ashotyan (00:18:06):

We understand it clearly.

Ashotyan (00:18:08):

I would like to thank all my European and international colleagues and friends.

Ashotyan (00:18:13):

You mentioned European People's Party.

Ashotyan (00:18:15):

And I would like also to add in International Centrist Democrat, IDC CDI.

Ashotyan (00:18:21):

It's a global organization for the Christian, democratic and like-minded parties.

Ashotyan (00:18:27):

So it's a kind of global EPP.

Ashotyan (00:18:29):

And they were even more straightforward and consistent in reporting my case.

Ashotyan (00:18:39):

So there were several statements,

Ashotyan (00:18:42):

resolutions issued not only by EPP,

Ashotyan (00:18:45):

but also by this very famous and known...

Ashotyan (00:18:50):

organization, IDC CDI, I mean.

Ashotyan (00:18:53):

And even recently,

Ashotyan (00:18:54):

two days ago,

Ashotyan (00:18:56):

they published another public statement about political prisoners in Armenia,

Ashotyan (00:19:02):

using my case as a showcase for saying that it's not only Armen Ashotyan who was

Ashotyan (00:19:13):

under political persecutions.

Ashotyan (00:19:15):

In Armenia, there are political prisoners, in plural,

Ashotyan (00:19:19):

And this organization will continue to monitor the situation for sure with our

Ashotyan (00:19:24):

support and the help,

Ashotyan (00:19:25):

assistance with information providing,

Ashotyan (00:19:28):

technical details,

Ashotyan (00:19:29):

etc.

Ashotyan (00:19:31):

So the attention of internationals towards the backslide of democracy to Armenia,

Ashotyan (00:19:38):

it's not only the question of political prisoners.

Ashotyan (00:19:41):

So you can't say that Armenia is democratic in general,

Ashotyan (00:19:45):

and there are only this question of illegal detainment.

Ashotyan (00:19:49):

This democracy backsliding is a total process.

Ashotyan (00:19:54):

It also involves the question of freedom of expression,

Ashotyan (00:19:58):

freedom of movement,

Ashotyan (00:19:59):

freedom of assembly,

Ashotyan (00:20:00):

media freedom.

Ashotyan (00:20:01):

So we can now list a dozen cases of the violation of human rights and freedoms by

Ashotyan (00:20:09):

Armenian regime in different spheres.

Ashotyan (00:20:12):

The recent report of the U.S.

Ashotyan (00:20:14):

State Department on human rights issue in Armenia was quite disappointing, frankly speaking.

Ashotyan (00:20:20):

I understand that globally in the U.S.

Ashotyan (00:20:23):

there is a shift of the attention towards insides,

Ashotyan (00:20:27):

not outsides,

Ashotyan (00:20:28):

after Biden's administration,

Ashotyan (00:20:31):

which was more concentrated on the human rights issue globally.

Ashotyan (00:20:36):

So positioning the U.S.

Ashotyan (00:20:38):

as a beacon of democracy and the

Ashotyan (00:20:40):

The Trump administration has no such kind of ambitions.

Ashotyan (00:20:45):

The ambitions are laying in other fields.

Ashotyan (00:20:48):

But even considering that, this year, the report published by the U.S.

Ashotyan (00:20:52):

State Department was not inclusive.

Ashotyan (00:20:57):

was very partial,

Ashotyan (00:20:59):

was very politicized,

Ashotyan (00:21:03):

and even cases listed there as examples of violation of human rights were not

Ashotyan (00:21:10):

conclusive,

Ashotyan (00:21:11):

frankly speaking.

Ashotyan (00:21:12):

So it's obvious that Nikol Pashinyan's regime has now

Ashotyan (00:21:18):

kind of d'accord or okay from the internationals because of his geopolitical

Ashotyan (00:21:26):

services that he's providing to the west now so and I'm very disappointed not by

Ashotyan (00:21:31):

u.s uh attitude because united states uh embassy here was and up to now is very

Ashotyan (00:21:41):

strong promoter of Nikol Pashinyan's power in our country

Ashotyan (00:21:46):

But I was disappointed with the European Union approach to this matter.

Asbed (00:21:52):

Armen, I wanted to know in light of what you're saying, if any of these embassies, the U.S.

Asbed (00:21:57):

or any of the European embassies reached out to you and asked you how you're doing?

Asbed (00:22:04):

That's very disappointing.

Asbed (00:22:06):

But let me also add one more thing because I'm a cynic about the whole concept of

Asbed (00:22:11):

Western values.

Asbed (00:22:13):

We should not exclude the Chinese, the Indian, other major power embassies.

Asbed (00:22:18):

Did any of them do any kind of reaching out?

Ashotyan (00:22:21):

I understand your approach, but may I argue the term Western values?

Ashotyan (00:22:27):

Because I wasn't a promoter, and I am not a promoter of Western values.

Ashotyan (00:22:32):

I don't believe in Western values.

Ashotyan (00:22:35):

I believe in European values based on the Christian democracy.

Ashotyan (00:22:38):

and based on the christianity and the European civilization so this is the

Ashotyan (00:22:44):

difference what we call the values values based on ideology yes values based on the

Ashotyan (00:22:49):

interests synthetic values or native values so this is another question maybe the

Ashotyan (00:22:56):

point for another dispute sometimes in the framework of other programs or podcasts

Asbed (00:23:01):

but you will be happy to take it up with you

Ashotyan (00:23:03):

With pleasure.

Ashotyan (00:23:05):

But speaking about the embassies,

Ashotyan (00:23:10):

From the prison, I've written two or three open letters to the ambassadors.

Ashotyan (00:23:16):

Ambassador of US received my open letter, ambassador of EU.

Ashotyan (00:23:21):

So there was no... Letters were not about my case.

Ashotyan (00:23:25):

Letters were about their attitude to the values that they so insistingly promoted

Ashotyan (00:23:30):

in my country for the 30 years.

Ashotyan (00:23:34):

But so coming back to the geopolitics, yes, European Union,

Ashotyan (00:23:38):

in general is turning its blind eye towards what is happening in Armenia,

Ashotyan (00:23:44):

because Nikol Pashinyan still is useful for them as a geopolitical aphorist or

Ashotyan (00:23:53):

geopolitical gambler,

Ashotyan (00:23:55):

I would say even.

Ashotyan (00:23:57):

That is why they know everything.

Ashotyan (00:23:59):

They notice everything.

Ashotyan (00:24:01):

They are deeply, deeply informed and they have no doubt.

Ashotyan (00:24:06):

I watched yesterday interview of a current ambassador

Ashotyan (00:24:11):

on Armenian media,

Ashotyan (00:24:12):

and it was so artificial from his side to avoid this question from the journalist

Ashotyan (00:24:19):

about democracy by backsliding Armenia.

Ashotyan (00:24:22):

He was saying, you know what, literally, is the following.

Ashotyan (00:24:25):

Oh, you know, we are promoting systematic reforms in the field of...

Ashotyan (00:24:32):

Law enforcement agencies, police, courts, etc.

Ashotyan (00:24:36):

And the particular cases are out of our mandate.

Ashotyan (00:24:41):

Listen, particular cases, he said, are out of our mandate.

Ashotyan (00:24:46):

It's very strange because every violation of every human rights consists of particular cases.

Ashotyan (00:24:53):

So when you are speaking about the cases as examples of the violation, they all are particular.

Ashotyan (00:25:00):

If not, your systematic criticism is not fact-based.

Ashotyan (00:25:06):

So if your criticism is fact-based, it means that you consider cases.

Ashotyan (00:25:13):

And when you say that everything is okay,

Ashotyan (00:25:15):

but we are not going to the cases,

Ashotyan (00:25:17):

it means that there is a two-layer lies,

Ashotyan (00:25:19):

two-layer twisting in this public statement.

Ashotyan (00:25:23):

And it is very, very disappointing.

Ashotyan (00:25:27):

Should we stop our fight to opening their eyes, ears, or hearts?

Ashotyan (00:25:35):

No, not at all.

Ashotyan (00:25:37):

One of my...

Ashotyan (00:25:39):

Interviews were devoted to this question.

Ashotyan (00:25:42):

Our dear European colleagues,

Ashotyan (00:25:44):

European ambassadors to our wonderful country should face Armenian society

Ashotyan (00:25:49):

disappointment,

Ashotyan (00:25:51):

anger, and demands to open their eyes.

Ashotyan (00:25:55):

Because I think that,

Ashotyan (00:25:58):

you know,

Ashotyan (00:25:59):

this symbol of free monkeys,

Ashotyan (00:26:01):

nothing to hear,

Ashotyan (00:26:02):

nothing to watch,

Ashotyan (00:26:04):

see,

Ashotyan (00:26:05):

nothing to speak.

Ashotyan (00:26:06):

I don't think that this is a good placement of European branding in Armenia.

Ashotyan (00:26:11):

So when European institutions,

Ashotyan (00:26:13):

international institutions are behaving like these three monkeys in my country,

Ashotyan (00:26:20):

it means that they are undermining the same values Armenian people believe in.

Ashotyan (00:26:25):

Because when you hear their voices or geopolitical assessments of the situation and

Ashotyan (00:26:34):

you watch around and see the prisoners around you,

Ashotyan (00:26:38):

you see that Artsakh question is so smoothly and glibly sold to the Azerbaijan as a

Ashotyan (00:26:47):

geopolitical gift.

Ashotyan (00:26:49):

When you hear the voice of President of European Commission about reliability of

Ashotyan (00:26:57):

Azerbaijan as a partner,

Ashotyan (00:27:01):

when you follow the visit of Madame Callas,

Ashotyan (00:27:07):

higher representative of European Commission on Foreign Affairs to Baku,

Ashotyan (00:27:11):

and hear all this information,

Ashotyan (00:27:13):

sweet pillow talks you can't digest it yourself because yes i want to be naive now

Ashotyan (00:27:22):

and i will demand myself in my political activity in upcoming weeks from European

Ashotyan (00:27:29):

community what we deserve i would also thank very many members of European

Ashotyan (00:27:35):

parliament who are quite honest about the situation in armenia

Ashotyan (00:27:39):

And when I was in prison, it was a secret, but now I could deliver it to you.

Ashotyan (00:27:48):

I were receiving letters from many European, many, a dozen.

Ashotyan (00:27:52):

A dozen are many, I think, in my case.

Ashotyan (00:27:55):

A dozen of European politicians letter from them, saying that they understand everything.

Ashotyan (00:28:02):

They know that the case is fabricated,

Ashotyan (00:28:04):

they believe in me,

Ashotyan (00:28:05):

they trust me,

Ashotyan (00:28:06):

they know me personally.

Ashotyan (00:28:08):

But sorry, my friend, business as usual, so we can't say more.

Ashotyan (00:28:13):

We want you to know the truth, that we know the truth.

Ashotyan (00:28:17):

but we can't vocalize it.

Ashotyan (00:28:19):

We can't raise a voice because you know why.

Ashotyan (00:28:22):

So it was very frank.

Asbed (00:28:25):

I'm glad that they feel that way,

Asbed (00:28:27):

but honestly,

Asbed (00:28:28):

people who have influence at their levels need to speak up and do something about

Asbed (00:28:32):

it.

Asbed (00:28:33):

What's the value of having a position of power if they don't want to use it for good?

Asbed (00:28:41):

Earlier when I said the Chinese embassy,

Asbed (00:28:43):

the Indian embassy,

Asbed (00:28:44):

I didn't mean to exclude the Russian embassy.

Asbed (00:28:46):

I should have also said to them because human values are human values across the board.

Asbed (00:28:50):

But there's another international community which I'm really interested about,

Asbed (00:28:55):

and that's the Armenian diaspora.

Asbed (00:28:57):

What was the diaspora's reaction and response to your time as a political prisoner?

Asbed (00:29:02):

What kind of contact did you have?

Asbed (00:29:04):

What kind of support did you feel you received?

Asbed (00:29:06):

What do you want to tell us?

Ashotyan (00:29:08):

Thank you for the reminder about the part of your question I missed to reflect on.

Ashotyan (00:29:14):

I mean, India, China, Russian Federation.

Ashotyan (00:29:18):

Why I had no expectations?

Ashotyan (00:29:20):

Because India,

Ashotyan (00:29:21):

China,

Ashotyan (00:29:22):

Russian Federation never made human rights portfolio a part of their foreign

Ashotyan (00:29:27):

policies.

Ashotyan (00:29:29):

So it's not the question that they don't honor human rights or they have problems

Ashotyan (00:29:35):

or don't have problems in their own countries.

Ashotyan (00:29:37):

No, none of these superpowers ever reflected human rights approach in their foreign policies.

Ashotyan (00:29:46):

So Russia's foreign policy, China's foreign policy, Indian foreign policy never depended on

Ashotyan (00:29:52):

question of human rights.

Ashotyan (00:29:54):

They never published reports criticizing Armenian situation with human rights before.

Ashotyan (00:29:59):

So they have no such kind of pillar in their foreign policy.

Ashotyan (00:30:05):

That's why we don't expect their involvement in this question, in this issue.

Ashotyan (00:30:11):

As to the question of diaspora,

Ashotyan (00:30:12):

again,

Ashotyan (00:30:14):

following the idea of using my case as a showcase for other political prisoners and

Ashotyan (00:30:22):

considering my partial freedom as a chance to vocalize the systemic,

Ashotyan (00:30:29):

systematic problems in the whole,

Ashotyan (00:30:32):

I should say that I never considered diaspora as an international organization.

Ashotyan (00:30:38):

So diaspora for me is a part of Armenia abroad.

Ashotyan (00:30:42):

So when we speak about international organizations,

Ashotyan (00:30:47):

the reflection of diaspora attitude was never in my mind.

Ashotyan (00:30:51):

So now I am surprised with your question in this context.

Ashotyan (00:30:57):

But I felt support from some Canadian Armenians,

Ashotyan (00:31:04):

the group of the medical doctors who has written open letter to the Canadian

Ashotyan (00:31:13):

ambassador to Armenia.

Ashotyan (00:31:15):

I have had support from the group of German Armenians,

Ashotyan (00:31:19):

from the group of French Armenians,

Ashotyan (00:31:22):

from Russian Armenians.

Ashotyan (00:31:23):

But it's more, you know, it was either

Ashotyan (00:31:28):

personal or very segmented, fragmented support.

Ashotyan (00:31:33):

So I can't say that any diaspora organization were reflecting the question of,

Ashotyan (00:31:39):

and up to now is reflecting the question of political prisoners and backsliding

Ashotyan (00:31:44):

democracy in Armenia as a part of the portfolio.

Ashotyan (00:31:48):

I don't feel it.

Ashotyan (00:31:49):

Maybe it's because of my travel ban and because of the restrictions that I have no

Ashotyan (00:31:55):

feelings about

Ashotyan (00:31:56):

and I would like to be excused if I say something wrong towards the situation.

Asbed (00:32:00):

No, no, not at all.

Asbed (00:32:02):

In fact, let me add to what you were saying there.

Asbed (00:32:06):

It's very touching for me to hear you say that you do not consider Armenians, the

Asbed (00:32:11):

diaspora,

Asbed (00:32:12):

the international community;

Asbed (00:32:13):

that we are part of the nation,

Asbed (00:32:15):

not inside the country.

Asbed (00:32:16):

Because perhaps this is the reason why you haven't been hearing so much from the

Asbed (00:32:21):

diaspora, but there is such a disunity,

Asbed (00:32:24):

a separation between the Republic Armenians and the diaspora that it is very

Asbed (00:32:30):

difficult to bridge that gap with the current setup.

Ashotyan (00:32:33):

You know very well,

Ashotyan (00:32:34):

better than me,

Ashotyan (00:32:35):

that it is,

Ashotyan (00:32:36):

it wasn't,

Ashotyan (00:32:37):

it is up to now,

Ashotyan (00:32:38):

the part of the state policy to divide et impera,

Ashotyan (00:32:43):

as the Romans would say.

Ashotyan (00:32:45):

Divide et impera, what is Nikol Pashinyan is doing everywhere.

Ashotyan (00:32:48):

This is, he is doing this in Armenia, separating society into different groups.

Ashotyan (00:32:55):

He is doing the same abroad with diaspora, trying to

Ashotyan (00:33:02):

From one hand, what he's doing, he's cutting of diaspora from motherland.

Ashotyan (00:33:08):

And by the other hand, he's trying to create a new diaspora, a new face of diaspora, sorry.

Ashotyan (00:33:16):

It would be more correct to say not new diaspora, but new face of diaspora.

Ashotyan (00:33:24):

And this is what is going on abroad.

Ashotyan (00:33:26):

I feel it myself.

Ashotyan (00:33:28):

Another problem with diaspora is very clear that I think,

Ashotyan (00:33:33):

I hope that nobody will be jealous from other countries.

Ashotyan (00:33:37):

But as far as I understand the diaspora,

Ashotyan (00:33:40):

the heart of Armenians abroad is beating in the Middle East.

Ashotyan (00:33:46):

So the heart of Armenian diaspora, I mean everything as a heart,

Ashotyan (00:33:51):

is located in the Middle East.

Ashotyan (00:33:53):

I mean, Syria, Lebanon, Iran.

Ashotyan (00:33:57):

So this part of the world was as a facade of Armenian diaspora's ideology.

Ashotyan (00:34:03):

I don't diminish the role of American diaspora,

Ashotyan (00:34:06):

Russian or French,

Ashotyan (00:34:07):

but I think that ideologically the heart of diaspora were placed in the Middle

Ashotyan (00:34:12):

East.

Ashotyan (00:34:13):

And as we follow the situation, the erosion of Christianity in general in the Middle East

Ashotyan (00:34:19):

and the erosion of Armenian communities in the Middle East.

Ashotyan (00:34:22):

This kind of new wave of war or disasters all around the region is undermining also

Ashotyan (00:34:29):

the influence and the spirit of Armenian diaspora located there.

Ashotyan (00:34:34):

And it has its reflections in the US, in Russia, in France, everywhere.

Ashotyan (00:34:40):

So this is my perception of the diaspora infrastructure and organizational ties

Asbed (00:34:47):

You know, you're absolutely right.

Asbed (00:34:48):

I think that aspect I hadn't really considered because over the past at least a

Asbed (00:34:53):

couple of years,

Asbed (00:34:54):

since October 7,

Asbed (00:34:56):

2023 especially,

Asbed (00:34:57):

it's been very difficult for those communities to survive.

Asbed (00:35:00):

So it's not even like we are thinking about the Lebanese-Armenians.

Asbed (00:35:04):

Those Lebanese-Armenians have had trouble surviving as just Lebanese or as Syrians,

Asbed (00:35:08):

as Iranians with all the wars that are forced on those countries right now.

Asbed (00:35:13):

So there's been a period of time when the diaspora,

Asbed (00:35:17):

has been busy just with physical survival.

Ashotyan (00:35:21):

Exactly, exactly.

Ashotyan (00:35:22):

I was meaning that.

Ashotyan (00:35:26):

It's not our fault that we are facing these challenges,

Ashotyan (00:35:29):

but it has also influenced the ways this ripple effect also all over the Armenian

Ashotyan (00:35:35):

connections around the globe.

Hovik (00:35:37):

Mr. Ashotyan, you talked a lot about Christian values.

Hovik (00:35:44):

And I want to just highlight for our listeners and also get your thoughts,

Hovik (00:35:50):

one of the targets of the Pashinyan regime

Hovik (00:35:53):

has been the Armenian church.

Hovik (00:35:55):

Several dozen prisoners are now being held, being accused of supporting the archbishops.

Hovik (00:36:01):

What can you tell us about the specific aspect of the Armenian church being under attack?

Hovik (00:36:06):

What is the motivation of the Pashinyan regime?

Hovik (00:36:09):

And lastly, I mean, we know that in general, we've seen polls where Armenians support church.

Hovik (00:36:16):

And I believe, at least based on my experience,

Hovik (00:36:19):

I know that the church is very near and dear to me as part of my identity.

Hovik (00:36:24):

So why do you think that these types of affronts to the church,

Hovik (00:36:30):

especially the vulgar language used by this regime towards the church,

Hovik (00:36:33):

and I'm not even saying specific cases of imprisonment,

Hovik (00:36:40):

but just the attitude of the regime towards the church,

Hovik (00:36:45):

why do you think it's being tolerated?

Ashotyan (00:36:47):

You know, what is Nikol doing in Armenia, we could call by the term of social engineering.

Ashotyan (00:36:54):

This awful experiment is taking place in our country of resynthesizing or

Ashotyan (00:37:03):

recreating a new ideology,

Ashotyan (00:37:07):

new methodology,

Ashotyan (00:37:09):

and new Armenians.

Ashotyan (00:37:11):

And when I say new,

Ashotyan (00:37:13):

it means bad,

Ashotyan (00:37:14):

because usually the word new means something good,

Ashotyan (00:37:19):

something to the perspective.

Ashotyan (00:37:20):

No.

Ashotyan (00:37:21):

New, I mean...

Ashotyan (00:37:23):

Nicole Pashinyan is trying to finish with this social engineering, creating

Ashotyan (00:37:32):

new ideology for the nation,

Ashotyan (00:37:34):

distracting all traditional values,

Ashotyan (00:37:36):

our Armenianity,

Ashotyan (00:37:39):

our Pax Armeniaca,

Ashotyan (00:37:41):

we could say,

Ashotyan (00:37:42):

were based on.

Ashotyan (00:37:44):

And this is very clear that church was and still is one of the cornerstones of the

Ashotyan (00:37:51):

traditional Pax Armeniaca.

Ashotyan (00:37:54):

And it was predictable that it was foreseen that Nikol Pashinyan would attack

Ashotyan (00:38:01):

church because church is a kind of cradle of these values,

Ashotyan (00:38:08):

a kind of watchdog of this Armenian traditionality.

Ashotyan (00:38:13):

And church is preserving the memory of genocide.

Ashotyan (00:38:16):

Church is preserving the memory of Artsakh.

Ashotyan (00:38:19):

Church is preserving the memory

Ashotyan (00:38:21):

of our armenian memory and legacy i mean when i say armenian uh history and culture

Ashotyan (00:38:29):

all the targets are Nikol Pashinyan is aimed to demolish so the church as a

Ashotyan (00:38:38):

archivarius of this legacy

Ashotyan (00:38:43):

It was very clear that one day Nikol Pashinyan will shot them.

Ashotyan (00:38:48):

And what is he trying to do with cases of Mikhail Srbazan and Bagrat Srbazan is a

Ashotyan (00:38:55):

part of this show.

Ashotyan (00:38:58):

Because church,

Ashotyan (00:38:59):

as you said,

Ashotyan (00:39:00):

is one of the most powerful institutions in our country,

Ashotyan (00:39:04):

trustworthy institutions.

Ashotyan (00:39:06):

an institution on which Nikol Pashinyan has no influence,

Ashotyan (00:39:12):

has no administrative leverage,

Ashotyan (00:39:14):

has no constitutional provisions to influence on.

Ashotyan (00:39:19):

And this makes him nervous because as an autocrat who is swallowing new and new

Ashotyan (00:39:28):

areas and new and new person,

Ashotyan (00:39:30):

subject, etc,

Ashotyan (00:39:31):

he is very angry that he can't swallow the church.

Ashotyan (00:39:36):

And this is a problem for him as an autocrat,

Ashotyan (00:39:39):

and this is a problem for him as a man who is aiming to put his total authoritarian

Ashotyan (00:39:51):

regime on every Armenian minds.

Ashotyan (00:39:54):

So this authoritarianism is a new way of manipulating people.

Ashotyan (00:39:59):

He is trying to control the minds and the hearts of the people.

Ashotyan (00:40:04):

That is why on his every statement, he is touching this issue of identity.

Ashotyan (00:40:10):

He is trying to twist the history of identity, of nation building.

Ashotyan (00:40:16):

So what we are facing now, Azerbaijan is...

Ashotyan (00:40:19):

at making a nation building process and it's very clear Armenian regime is uh in

Ashotyan (00:40:28):

the course of the uh nation uh diminishing process demolishing process and uh

Ashotyan (00:40:34):

church

Ashotyan (00:40:36):

for sure is under protection of the God, and who are we to reflect on that?

Ashotyan (00:40:41):

But yes,

Ashotyan (00:40:43):

if you even believe in God,

Ashotyan (00:40:45):

if you trust in God,

Ashotyan (00:40:46):

if you put your life in hands of the God,

Ashotyan (00:40:49):

you should do your part of the job.

Ashotyan (00:40:52):

And Armenian society should,

Ashotyan (00:40:54):

I think,

Ashotyan (00:40:56):

do its part of the job of helping church,

Ashotyan (00:41:00):

of keeping church out of Pashinyan's hands,

Ashotyan (00:41:04):

of protecting the church and protecting the Catholicos as a symbol of,

Ashotyan (00:41:09):

as a leader of Armenians all around the world,

Ashotyan (00:41:12):

spiritual leaders at least.

Ashotyan (00:41:14):

And our expectations here in Armenia are much higher than,

Ashotyan (00:41:20):

for example, our Armenian church institutions like Patriarchy of Constantinople or Jerusalem or

Ashotyan (00:41:29):

Cilician Patriarch are delivering.

Ashotyan (00:41:34):

So I myself, it's not the position of H.M.A.T.

Ashotyan (00:41:39):

and of the Holy See.

Ashotyan (00:41:40):

It's my position of Armenia as Armenian citizen.

Ashotyan (00:41:44):

I expect more from Armenian church abroad.

Ashotyan (00:41:48):

We were talking about diaspora.

Ashotyan (00:41:51):

Armenian church institutions abroad are not diaspora as well.

Ashotyan (00:41:55):

And we should expect and should receive more support from Armenian spiritual institutions.

Ashotyan (00:42:03):

Not only, by the way, apostolic.

Ashotyan (00:42:07):

Because I deeply believe in the role of Armenian Catholic Church in creating and

Ashotyan (00:42:14):

keeping Armenian identity.

Ashotyan (00:42:16):

I deeply believe in the role of Armenian Protestant churches in keeping Armenian identities.

Ashotyan (00:42:24):

Do you remember...

Ashotyan (00:42:27):

the genocide centennial state committee and this state committee were was

Ashotyan (00:42:35):

consisting of different representatives from different spiritual christian

Ashotyan (00:42:42):

organizations of Armenians not only apostolic church representatives and i want to

Ashotyan (00:42:48):

see this framework

Ashotyan (00:42:50):

this pan-Armenian framework,

Ashotyan (00:42:53):

non-state actors,

Ashotyan (00:42:55):

but very influential actors that are standing together in preserving Armenian

Ashotyan (00:43:00):

identities.

Ashotyan (00:43:01):

Because if Nikol Pashinyan succeeds in ruining Armenian Apostolic Church,

Ashotyan (00:43:09):

he would do the same with other national institutions in other congregations,

Ashotyan (00:43:16):

I mean.

Asbed (00:43:16):

Well, we hope that this video gets in front of them.

Ashotyan (00:43:20):

Yeah, you know, because you know, for example, San Lazaro, Armenian mehitarists.

Ashotyan (00:43:27):

Who are there?

Ashotyan (00:43:29):

They are Armenians.

Ashotyan (00:43:31):

There is so many Armenians in their archives,

Ashotyan (00:43:35):

in their way of thinking,

Ashotyan (00:43:37):

in their service,

Ashotyan (00:43:38):

in their story,

Ashotyan (00:43:39):

history.

Ashotyan (00:43:42):

I have no doubts that this cradle of Armenity would say would be another target

Ashotyan (00:43:48):

from Nikol Pashinyan as well,

Ashotyan (00:43:49):

because they kept the spirit of Armenia.

Ashotyan (00:43:53):

The same is applicable, for example, to Beirut,

Ashotyan (00:43:58):

Haigazian University, the only Armenian higher education institution out of Armenia.

Ashotyan (00:44:04):

This is a part of Armenian historical academic legacy.

Ashotyan (00:44:08):

Do you think that Nikol Pashinyan will not try to harm them as well?

Ashotyan (00:44:14):

So his fight against all traditional Pax Armeniaca

Ashotyan (00:44:20):

will continue.

Ashotyan (00:44:21):

And the apostolic church is just one in the row of his targets.

Ashotyan (00:44:26):

And that's why we call for the more unification, solidarity.

Ashotyan (00:44:32):

I do believe in that.

Ashotyan (00:44:33):

I do believe that Armenians are able to topple Nikol Pashinyan's regime if they unite.

Hovik (00:44:43):

Mr. Ashotyan, let's talk about the so-called peace process,

Hovik (00:44:46):

or what we refer to as managed capitulation process.

Hovik (00:44:51):

Since the 44-day war,

Hovik (00:44:53):

Pashinyan's dealings with Azerbaijan have been less diplomacy and more,

Hovik (00:44:56):

I would say,

Hovik (00:44:57):

project management,

Hovik (00:44:58):

checking off Aliyev's demands one by one.

Hovik (00:45:01):

Each concession only fuels bigger demands,

Hovik (00:45:04):

turning Pashinyan into a little more than a project manager for Armenia's

Hovik (00:45:08):

surrender.

Hovik (00:45:09):

And you were still in prison when the final chapter came in September 2023 with the

Hovik (00:45:16):

ethnic cleansing of Artsakh.

Hovik (00:45:18):

But I wanted to get your thoughts on this whole process of what happened over the

Hovik (00:45:24):

last,

Hovik (00:45:25):

I guess,

Hovik (00:45:26):

five years or seven years.

Hovik (00:45:27):

What are your thoughts about how Pashinyan and his people

Hovik (00:45:31):

have so-called negotiated with Aliyev, especially after the war?

Ashotyan (00:45:42):

by the way,

Ashotyan (00:45:43):

is quite honest,

Ashotyan (00:45:45):

surprisingly honest,

Ashotyan (00:45:47):

in his recent statement on the vacation of Armenian independence declaration.

Ashotyan (00:45:53):

When you go through his text published on that day, you would see that he is very, very honest.

Ashotyan (00:46:00):

He acknowledged that he did what he did, he did in purpose.

Ashotyan (00:46:04):

What he did with the negotiation process around Artsakh,

Ashotyan (00:46:08):

what he did during the war,

Ashotyan (00:46:10):

what he did after the 44 days' war in diplomatic activity,

Ashotyan (00:46:16):

was in purpose.

Ashotyan (00:46:17):

So this surrender was planned before the surrender.

Ashotyan (00:46:23):

This strange war,

Ashotyan (00:46:25):

bizarre war,

Ashotyan (00:46:27):

was brought to Armenia and to Armenians by Nikol Pashinyan in purpose.

Ashotyan (00:46:34):

I understand what you're saying.

Asbed (00:46:38):

I also agree with it, but 5,000 men gave their lives for this.

Ashotyan (00:46:43):

Exactly.

Ashotyan (00:46:45):

For us, this is 5,000 pains.

Ashotyan (00:46:48):

For him,

Ashotyan (00:46:49):

it was the price he was paying to his geopolitical adventur and his deceit of the

Ashotyan (00:46:56):

nation.

Ashotyan (00:46:57):

So 5,000 toms, we have 5,000 victims.

Ashotyan (00:47:01):

But you know what?

Ashotyan (00:47:02):

We have no 5,000 toms because many are missing.

Ashotyan (00:47:06):

Many are not identified even after five years of the war.

Asbed (00:47:11):

And the injured and all the families that are left injured.

Asbed (00:47:15):

Exactly.

Ashotyan (00:47:16):

This is price he paid.

Ashotyan (00:47:19):

This is the barbaric price, the vandalistic price he paid for his geopolitical gambling.

Ashotyan (00:47:26):

And he did it on purpose.

Ashotyan (00:47:28):

And what makes their deaths even more painful,

Ashotyan (00:47:35):

that their deaths were not devoted to the pride of

Ashotyan (00:47:42):

Their deaths,

Ashotyan (00:47:43):

their sacrifices didn't bring honor to the nation,

Ashotyan (00:47:50):

didn't bring,

Ashotyan (00:47:51):

you know,

Ashotyan (00:47:53):

dignity, because they are forgotten.

Ashotyan (00:47:57):

They are really forgotten.

Ashotyan (00:47:59):

And only inside the families of the victims,

Ashotyan (00:48:02):

of the heroes of this war,

Ashotyan (00:48:05):

they remember and worship them.

Ashotyan (00:48:07):

On national level,

Ashotyan (00:48:09):

you know,

Ashotyan (00:48:10):

after five years,

Ashotyan (00:48:11):

we still have no, a single,

Ashotyan (00:48:14):

single monument devoted to their memory.

Ashotyan (00:48:18):

Even single monuments.

Ashotyan (00:48:20):

Yeah, for sure in villages,

Ashotyan (00:48:22):

on personal level,

Ashotyan (00:48:23):

on family level,

Ashotyan (00:48:24):

every family tries to memorize,

Ashotyan (00:48:30):

to build some hatch cars,

Ashotyan (00:48:31):

to put some monuments.

Ashotyan (00:48:35):

But on national level, after single, there is no issue.

Asbed (00:48:40):

And there hasn't even been a real war commission finding.

Asbed (00:48:43):

There hasn't been a real investigation as to how things went down.

Ashotyan (00:48:47):

You know,

Ashotyan (00:48:48):

formally they built up this ad hoc committee on investigation of this war,

Ashotyan (00:48:55):

led by a notorious man called Andranik Kocharian.

Ashotyan (00:49:01):

Yes, but their report even still is out of,

Ashotyan (00:49:05):

it's not on the table for the,

Ashotyan (00:49:07):

it's not published,

Ashotyan (00:49:09):

so we don't know even what is inside,

Ashotyan (00:49:11):

but yeah,

Ashotyan (00:49:12):

on national level he's trying to

Ashotyan (00:49:15):

to create another atmosphere in Armenia.

Ashotyan (00:49:18):

He is misusing the will to live,

Ashotyan (00:49:24):

to the life of Armenians,

Ashotyan (00:49:25):

even after all these disasters,

Ashotyan (00:49:27):

to feed

Ashotyan (00:49:29):

his own political aims and goals.

Ashotyan (00:49:33):

What he says,

Ashotyan (00:49:34):

he says, oh,

Ashotyan (00:49:35):

you are going to the concerts of the Lopez or Dumikyan or other crowded concerts or

Ashotyan (00:49:42):

shows.

Ashotyan (00:49:43):

It means that this is new Armenia.

Ashotyan (00:49:45):

But he didn't consider that.

Ashotyan (00:49:47):

Yes, every man, even after the most painful disaster, wants to leave.

Ashotyan (00:49:54):

and his fight for the life, his first to the life.

Ashotyan (00:50:00):

also dictating him to go to the concerts,

Ashotyan (00:50:03):

to making weddings,

Ashotyan (00:50:04):

to go to the birthday parties,

Ashotyan (00:50:06):

etc.

Ashotyan (00:50:07):

And Nikol is now using our daily-based fight for the happiness,

Ashotyan (00:50:12):

our daily-based fight for the life,

Ashotyan (00:50:15):

for the continuity of life,

Ashotyan (00:50:17):

as a fundament,

Ashotyan (00:50:19):

basics for his new ideology,

Ashotyan (00:50:22):

saying that, you see,

Ashotyan (00:50:23):

this is new Armenia,

Ashotyan (00:50:24):

nobody is crying,

Ashotyan (00:50:26):

nobody is...

Ashotyan (00:50:28):

memorizing victims, everything.

Asbed (00:50:31):

He was trying to take credit for the fact that people showed up on Vardavar and

Asbed (00:50:36):

were enjoying themselves.

Ashotyan (00:50:37):

Exactly.

Ashotyan (00:50:38):

As they say in Armenia,

Ashotyan (00:50:40):

we say in Armenia,

Ashotyan (00:50:41):

you know,

Ashotyan (00:50:42):

he is putting the people as the Chagh and Baghdavor.

Ashotyan (00:50:45):

saying that, okay, this is not Armenia.

Ashotyan (00:50:49):

This is a fight of Armenians for the better life.

Ashotyan (00:50:53):

There is a fight of Armenians who are thirsty for the happiness,

Ashotyan (00:50:57):

for the positive momentum in their lives.

Ashotyan (00:51:00):

And either it's beer fest or wine fest or any other show or tour of any star,

Ashotyan (00:51:09):

it's not a sign of another Armenian.

Ashotyan (00:51:13):

It's a face of the same Armenia who,

Ashotyan (00:51:15):

despite all these sacrifices,

Ashotyan (00:51:18):

wars, losses,

Ashotyan (00:51:19):

is still trying to revive,

Ashotyan (00:51:22):

is still trying to survive.

Ashotyan (00:51:24):

And this is what for me and Nicole is also very different,

Ashotyan (00:51:29):

the perception of Armenian reality around here.

Hovik (00:51:34):

So, Mr.

Hovik (00:51:35):

Ashotyan,

Hovik (00:51:36):

we know that you've been very generous with your time,

Hovik (00:51:39):

but we will terminate this interview with the hope that you can come back because

Hovik (00:51:43):

we have still a lot more questions.

Hovik (00:51:45):

But I want to ask one specific question about the so-called peace process.

Hovik (00:51:51):

We know that a 17-point document has been drafted with an unknown number of preconditions.

Hovik (00:51:57):

And Pashinyan has kept declaring every few days that he is ready to sign,

Hovik (00:52:01):

and voila,

Hovik (00:52:02):

in Washington,

Hovik (00:52:03):

they pre-signed it or they initialed it.

Hovik (00:52:06):

But we know that, as I said, there are many preconditions.

Hovik (00:52:10):

Chief among them is that Armenia must adopt a new constitution.

Hovik (00:52:15):

How realistic do you think this is?

Hovik (00:52:18):

Because many say that because of this precondition,

Hovik (00:52:20):

Azerbaijan does not want peace and this peace document will never be signed.

Hovik (00:52:24):

But how realistic do you think is the prospect for a constitutional change or a new

Hovik (00:52:29):

constitutional referendum?

Hovik (00:52:31):

And what happens if that referendum fails?

Ashotyan (00:52:35):

You know, there is a temptation,

Ashotyan (00:52:36):

a huge temptation to make a long speech about all the things you mentioned.

Ashotyan (00:52:42):

But I will be concentrated on just two points.

Ashotyan (00:52:47):

First, answering your direct question.

Ashotyan (00:52:51):

For sure, Pashinyan will try to satisfy Aliyev's demands again.

Ashotyan (00:52:56):

A new constitution is just one of them.

Ashotyan (00:53:00):

So I am pretty sure that Aliyah will deliver,

Ashotyan (00:53:04):

will voice new conditions every time the last one is implemented,

Ashotyan (00:53:11):

is fulfilled.

Ashotyan (00:53:13):

So I see no perspective for the new constitution adoption,

Ashotyan (00:53:17):

but there is no doubt that Nicole will try to do his best or our worst to provide

Ashotyan (00:53:25):

the fulfillment of this demand.

Ashotyan (00:53:27):

Second, talking about peace process, I will be very short to be clear to your audience.

Ashotyan (00:53:35):

If this model of peace is so brilliant,

Ashotyan (00:53:39):

is so just,

Ashotyan (00:53:41):

is so fair,

Ashotyan (00:53:43):

is so long-awaited and so,

Ashotyan (00:53:45):

you know,

Ashotyan (00:53:46):

they're a very good one.

Ashotyan (00:53:47):

Why this model of peace when one side is considering everything and another side is

Ashotyan (00:53:57):

demanding everything is so good?

Ashotyan (00:53:59):

Why our Western partners are not implementing this kind of peace model?

Ashotyan (00:54:05):

in Ukraine, in other parts of the world.

Ashotyan (00:54:09):

Why in case of Ukraine, European leaders are saying constantly that

Ashotyan (00:54:16):

There should not be peace agreement under the threat of Russia,

Ashotyan (00:54:20):

under the aggression of Russia,

Ashotyan (00:54:23):

under the use of force.

Ashotyan (00:54:25):

There shouldn't be territorial concessions to Russia.

Ashotyan (00:54:29):

Peace should be just, etc, etc.

Hovik (00:54:33):

There should be security guarantees.

Ashotyan (00:54:35):

Exactly.

Ashotyan (00:54:36):

Why, in the case of Armenia, all these very good approaches are vaporized?

Ashotyan (00:54:43):

Why? If this model is good,

Ashotyan (00:54:46):

This model of peace should be implemented,

Ashotyan (00:54:49):

should be fulfilled also in other conflict areas,

Ashotyan (00:54:53):

at least in the Council of Europe territory,

Ashotyan (00:54:56):

I mean Moldova,

Ashotyan (00:54:58):

the Transnistria Ukraine, Georgia, et cetera, et cetera.

Ashotyan (00:55:03):

So this model is not good.

Ashotyan (00:55:05):

And they,

Ashotyan (00:55:06):

the guarantors,

Ashotyan (00:55:07):

the mediators,

Ashotyan (00:55:09):

the partners,

Ashotyan (00:55:10):

the protectors of Pashinyan regime are very well aware that this model is not good.

Ashotyan (00:55:16):

It's not fair model.

Ashotyan (00:55:18):

But they take a bingo because Pashinyan is a gambler and he is putting everything

Ashotyan (00:55:25):

on his own power grip.

Ashotyan (00:55:29):

And so I don't accuse international community in that sense because they are just

Ashotyan (00:55:36):

taking the opportunity,

Ashotyan (00:55:38):

seizing the chance,

Ashotyan (00:55:40):

historical chance maybe for them.

Ashotyan (00:55:43):

So this peace process has nothing to do with peace.

Ashotyan (00:55:47):

This is not just process.

Ashotyan (00:55:49):

This is not fair process.

Ashotyan (00:55:51):

We can go through details about the absence of many Armenian interests in the text,

Ashotyan (00:55:57):

about absence of international guarantees,

Ashotyan (00:56:00):

because even according to U.S.

Ashotyan (00:56:01):

State Department official website, the

Ashotyan (00:56:07):

witnessing the signature of international agreement, it's political, not a legal act.

Ashotyan (00:56:14):

And according to this official information of the State Department's website,

Ashotyan (00:56:19):

it doesn't provide guarantees of implementation.

Ashotyan (00:56:24):

So it's very clear.

Ashotyan (00:56:27):

US is not lying.

Ashotyan (00:56:28):

It's very honest and very open, maybe pragmatic.

Ashotyan (00:56:32):

As I said to Armenian audience,

Ashotyan (00:56:35):

Biden's administration surprised Armenians with their hypocrisy,

Ashotyan (00:56:42):

but Trump's administration will surprise Armenia with their pragmatism.

Asbed (00:56:47):

Armen Ashotyan, I cannot wait to come back.

Ashotyan (00:56:50):

Thank you very much.

Ashotyan (00:56:51):

Again, sorry for...

Asbed (00:56:52):

... Let's say shortly to discuss more about this process.

Ashotyan (00:56:55):

Uneven English.

Ashotyan (00:56:56):

Very sorry for my uneven English.

Asbed (00:56:59):

Your English has been great.

Asbed (00:57:01):

But I can't wait to come back and talk more about this peace process.

Asbed (00:57:04):

And also as Armenia heads towards the 2026 parliamentary elections,

Asbed (00:57:09):

we want to hear a lot more about the Republican Party and strategy.

Ashotyan (00:57:11):

I would be impatient.

Ashotyan (00:57:13):

Thank you very much for this chance and I will wait for the next opportunity to

Ashotyan (00:57:17):

meet all of you and speak about these important issues.

Ashotyan (00:57:19):

Thanks a lot.

Asbed (00:57:22):

That's our show today.

Asbed (00:57:23):

This episode was recorded on August 27, 2025.

Asbed (00:57:27):

And we have been talking with Armen Ashotyan,

Asbed (00:57:30):

who is the Vice President of the Republican Party of Armenia.

Asbed (00:57:33):

From 2005 to 2007,

Asbed (00:57:35):

Mr.

Asbed (00:57:36):

Ashotyan was a member of the National Assembly and chaired the Committee on Foreign

Asbed (00:57:40):

Relations.

Asbed (00:57:41):

From 2009 to 2017, Armen Ashotyan served as Minister of Education and Science

Asbed (00:57:46):

And in 2017,

Asbed (00:57:48):

Ashotyan was elected to the parliament again and served there until the December

Asbed (00:57:52):

2018 snap parliamentary elections.

Asbed (00:57:55):

We're going to come back and talk to Armen Ashotyan soon,

Asbed (00:57:58):

hopefully sometime next week,

Asbed (00:58:00):

and start discussing the political landscape going forward rather than do

Asbed (00:58:04):

historical background about things.

Hovik (00:58:07):

And of course,

Hovik (00:58:08):

if you have any questions that you would like to ask him,

Hovik (00:58:10):

feel free to add them to the comments under this video.

Hovik (00:58:14):

And we will make sure to read them and,

Hovik (00:58:18):

you know,

Hovik (00:58:19):

and we will present those questions to him next time we speak with him.

Asbed (00:58:22):

Yeah, he specifically asked us to listen to listener comments and pass them on so that we

Asbed (00:58:29):

can discuss them in our next show.

Hovik (00:58:31):

And before we bid adieu, just one quick reminder, we want to be more visible on Apple Podcasts.

Hovik (00:58:40):

If you don't have an account,

Hovik (00:58:41):

please consider opening an account on Apple Podcasts and subscribing to us there.

Hovik (00:58:46):

Downloading and commenting on our content there helps us improve our visibility and

Hovik (00:58:51):

rise above the foreign-funded Alphabet Soup agency-funded content that is currently

Hovik (00:59:01):

at the top there for Armenian news.

Hovik (00:59:03):

So help us be visible there.

Hovik (00:59:06):

We would really appreciate it.

Hovik (00:59:07):

I'm Hovik Manucharyan from Yerevan, Armenia.

Asbed (00:59:10):

And I'm Asbed Bedrossian in Los Angeles.

Asbed (00:59:13):

Find us on social media at all the links that Hovik gave you, and we will talk to you very soon.

Asbed (00:59:19):

Bye-bye.

Hovik (00:59:20):

Take care, folks.

People on this episode

Head Shot

Asbed Bedrossian

Co-host
Head Shot

Hovik Manucharyan

Co-host
Head Shot

Armen Ashotyan

Guest

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