Armenian News Network - Groong: Week In Review Podcast

Armen Ashotyan - Pashinyan Vote of No Confidence, Opposition Strategies | Ep 473, Sep 19, 2025

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Pashinyan Vote of No Confidence, Opposition Strategies

Conversations on Groong - Recorded on: September 17, 2025

Topics

  • TRIPP / Trump Route / Zangezur Corridor
  • Vote of No Confidence
  • “Pashinyan or War”?


Guest

Hosts


Episode 473 | Recorded: September 17, 2025

https://podcasts.groong.org/473


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Asbed (00:00:04):

Hello, everyone, and welcome to this Conversations on Groong episode.

Asbed (00:00:07):

We are happy to have the Vice President of the Republican Party of Armenia,

Asbed (00:00:11):

Armen Ashotyan,

Asbed (00:00:12):

with us again.

Asbed (00:00:14):

We want to talk about the state of the Armenian opposition,

Asbed (00:00:17):

the strategy of the Republican Party of Armenia,

Asbed (00:00:19):

the RPA,

Asbed (00:00:20):

all heading towards an important election in Armenia in 2026.

Asbed (00:00:26):

Mr. Ashotyan, welcome back to the Groong podcast.

Armen (00:00:29):

Thank you very much for your another invitation.

Armen (00:00:32):

It's always a pleasure to be hosted by you.

Hovik (00:00:35):

Welcome Mr.

Hovik (00:00:36):

Ashotyan and we do appreciate your time because unfortunately we weren't able to

Hovik (00:00:42):

ask you all the questions we wanted to the last two weeks ago.

Hovik (00:00:45):

So you've been gracious enough to come back so quickly so we can finish our interview.

Hovik (00:00:51):

Essentially this is a continuation of our interview two weeks ago.

Hovik (00:00:54):

If you haven't checked that one out,

Hovik (00:00:55):

go to our YouTube channel and watch that maybe first,

Hovik (00:00:59):

but it doesn't matter.

Hovik (00:01:00):

Before we go into Armenian politics,

Hovik (00:01:03):

internal Armenian politics,

Hovik (00:01:04):

Mr. Ashut, I want to talk about the so-called trip or Trump corridor,

Hovik (00:01:11):

Trump route,

Hovik (00:01:12):

so many different names depending on who you ask.

Hovik (00:01:16):

Last week, a U.S.

Hovik (00:01:17):

State Department delegation was in Armenia.

Hovik (00:01:21):

And they visited Armenia to announce 145 million first tranche in American funding.

Hovik (00:01:27):

They called it assistance.

Hovik (00:01:29):

Not sure if that's aid.

Hovik (00:01:30):

I'm not sure if that's loan.

Hovik (00:01:32):

But that was basically to start building the trip, the Trump route.

Hovik (00:01:36):

Now, at the August 8th ceremony in Washington, D.C., Trump described this as a 99-year project.

Hovik (00:01:44):

So have many others,

Hovik (00:01:45):

including his ambassador to Turkey,

Hovik (00:01:48):

Tom Barak,

Hovik (00:01:49):

and they have also described it as a lease.

Hovik (00:01:52):

Now,

Hovik (00:01:53):

if you ask Armenian government officials,

Hovik (00:01:55):

they say there is no lease,

Hovik (00:01:57):

no lease,

Hovik (00:01:58):

and there is nothing about 99 years.

Hovik (00:02:00):

And in fact,

Hovik (00:02:02):

when they published the Memorandum of Understanding,

Hovik (00:02:05):

after three weeks or two weeks of delays,

Hovik (00:02:08):

they finally published this Memorandum of Understanding signed in Washington,

Hovik (00:02:11):

D.C., and also it mentioned nothing about 99 years,

Hovik (00:02:15):

nor the word lease.

Hovik (00:02:17):

But it's hard to imagine that U.S.

Hovik (00:02:18):

is committing so much money to a project without detailed guarantees on how it will

Hovik (00:02:25):

be able to recuperate its money.

Hovik (00:02:27):

So we want to ask you,

Hovik (00:02:28):

and we know that the opposition in Armenian parliament has demanded also details,

Hovik (00:02:32):

but so far none have been provided.

Hovik (00:02:36):

How can the U.S.

Hovik (00:02:37):

invest $145 million without any commitment from Armenia?

Hovik (00:02:40):

And what are your thoughts on this trip route in general?

Armen (00:02:45):

Thank you very much for your another invitation.

Armen (00:02:48):

I told you before, it's always a pleasure to be your guest.

Armen (00:02:52):

Very quick, I will just remind the Republican Party of Armenia weeks ago,

Armen (00:02:58):

several weeks ago,

Armen (00:03:00):

expressed deep concerns over this trilateral memorandum signed in Washington,

Armen (00:03:06):

D.C.

Armen (00:03:08):

And we are concerned, first of all, because Armenian rulers

Armen (00:03:14):

Nikol Pashinyan personally signed this memorandum,

Armen (00:03:19):

it's very clear,

Armen (00:03:20):

under the pressure of Azerbaijan aggression or threat of use of force.

Armen (00:03:27):

It has been signed under unilateral demands and under geopolitical process pressure.

Armen (00:03:33):

So it's very clear that this ceremony wouldn't have happened if Nikol Pashinyan

Armen (00:03:41):

had kept Armenian interests first.

Armen (00:03:45):

So for the world,

Armen (00:03:46):

for the region,

Armen (00:03:47):

for the global players,

Armen (00:03:48):

for the US in particular,

Armen (00:03:51):

it's very natural that any kind of unilateral concessions made in such conflicts by

Armen (00:03:57):

one side

Armen (00:03:59):

are very important as a chance to dictate or to implement their own policies.

Armen (00:04:05):

So we didn't criticize the Trump administration in our statement, I mean RPA statement.

Armen (00:04:12):

We criticized the approach of the Nicole Parshini government to such vital issues,

Armen (00:04:18):

vital for our national interest issues.

Armen (00:04:21):

And there are many points why this memorandum and initialized so-called peace

Armen (00:04:29):

agreement are criticized by our party.

Armen (00:04:33):

First of all, it exclusively expresses only interests of Azerbaijan.

Armen (00:04:38):

So there is no Armenian interest in it.

Armen (00:04:42):

The second important point that it's ignored

Armen (00:04:46):

the mandatory requirement of the withdrawal of Azerbaijani troops from Armenian

Armen (00:04:51):

sovereign territory.

Armen (00:04:52):

The fourth point is about Armenian prisoners of war and Artsakh leadership captured

Armen (00:05:00):

by Azerbaijan and kept in Baku prison.

Armen (00:05:03):

So there is no demand to their immediate release.

Armen (00:05:07):

There are no mechanisms of internationally guaranteed

Armen (00:05:12):

security processing there.

Armen (00:05:14):

So it's just a unilateral concession and nothing go.

Armen (00:05:20):

There is no mentioning of Nagorno-Karabakh people's rights, any rights.

Armen (00:05:26):

So rights to return, rights to preserve their cultural and spiritual heritage, etc., etc.

Armen (00:05:33):

So the trilateral memorandum itself is very complicated for Armenian interests

Armen (00:05:39):

because, as I told you,

Armen (00:05:40):

it's very unilateral and there is no Armenian interest reflection in it.

Armen (00:05:45):

For Trump administration,

Armen (00:05:46):

it's another success story because they think that this could lead to the peace

Armen (00:05:52):

process,

Armen (00:05:53):

but everybody...

Armen (00:05:55):

out of the big politics,

Armen (00:05:57):

big game,

Armen (00:05:58):

understand that it's not about the peace,

Armen (00:06:01):

it's about ongoing capitulation of Armenia.

Armen (00:06:06):

And this is happening because Armenian people up to now were not able to change

Armen (00:06:11):

Nikol Pashinyan's regime,

Armen (00:06:14):

and he is continuing to trade Armenian national interest for its own guarantees for

Armen (00:06:21):

the

Armen (00:06:22):

for the power.

Armen (00:06:23):

So it's very clear.

Armen (00:06:25):

Another dimension of the criticism you mentioned in your introductory speeches

Armen (00:06:32):

about the secrets kept from Armenian people.

Armen (00:06:36):

Yes, you are clearly right.

Armen (00:06:38):

We demanded these bilateral agreements to be published between US and Armenia.

Armen (00:06:44):

It has been published after some time.

Armen (00:06:47):

And according to this paper,

Armen (00:06:51):

What we have heard in Washington could be described as just a fantasy of the US president.

Armen (00:07:00):

Is it true?

Armen (00:07:01):

Is Mr. Trump a fantasy or storyteller?

Armen (00:07:06):

Not at all.

Armen (00:07:07):

Is Mr. Trump a liar, sorry to say to our American citizens?

Armen (00:07:12):

Not at all.

Armen (00:07:13):

So who is liar in this story when there is a gap between

Armen (00:07:18):

globally broadcasted messages of the U.S.

Armen (00:07:21):

president and the paper published by Armenian government.

Armen (00:07:26):

So there is a deep gap.

Armen (00:07:28):

And in this gap, this gap should be filled by one of the liars.

Armen (00:07:35):

Which side is liar?

Armen (00:07:36):

Armenian current government or U.S.

Armen (00:07:39):

administration?

Armen (00:07:41):

It's very clear that the liar side,

Armen (00:07:45):

the storyteller side,

Armen (00:07:46):

the fortune tailor side,

Armen (00:07:49):

the coffee cup reader side is not Mr.

Armen (00:07:52):

Trump and his administration.

Armen (00:07:55):

And Nicole Pashinyan's government now by their very aggressive propaganda is trying

Armen (00:08:03):

to indirectly,

Armen (00:08:06):

but very constantly to accuse American president

Armen (00:08:12):

in deceit.

Armen (00:08:13):

Is it true?

Armen (00:08:17):

One of them is a liar.

Armen (00:08:19):

Please tell me.

Armen (00:08:21):

Let's bet on real politics.

Armen (00:08:24):

Who is a liar, Mr. Pashvinyan or Mr. Karkov?

Armen (00:08:28):

So I am very sure that Armenian government is keeping secrets from its society.

Armen (00:08:36):

It has been promised or guaranteed

Armen (00:08:40):

to American side by Nikol Pashinyan, either by means of secret appendices, I guess.

Armen (00:08:49):

Maybe there are some kind of secret,

Armen (00:08:52):

non-disclosed papers about this document,

Armen (00:08:56):

or it has been done orally.

Armen (00:08:59):

I mean, per verba.

Armen (00:09:00):

So it's something that Nikol Pashinyan promised, maybe.

Armen (00:09:04):

But knowing how American administration is acting,

Armen (00:09:08):

regardless of the party ruling the country,

Armen (00:09:12):

I don't believe that American side believes in words of Pashinyan.

Armen (00:09:18):

So there is a paper signed with the promises Nicole Pashinyan made,

Armen (00:09:24):

with the promises,

Armen (00:09:25):

with the mechanisms that the American president

Armen (00:09:29):

vocalized during this ceremony.

Armen (00:09:32):

So it's very clear.

Asbed (00:09:34):

Mr. Ashotyan,

Asbed (00:09:35):

you just mentioned that the society has been unable until now to remove Pashinyan

Asbed (00:09:41):

from this position.

Asbed (00:09:42):

But yesterday,

Asbed (00:09:43):

your alliance,

Asbed (00:09:44):

Pativ Unem,

Asbed (00:09:45):

presented its statement titled,

Asbed (00:09:47):

On the Expression of No Confidence in the Prime Minister of the Republic of Armenia

Asbed (00:09:52):

on the Grounds of National Crisis and Failure of Governance.

Asbed (00:09:56):

For our listeners, it's important to clarify this is not a formal motion for no confidence.

Asbed (00:10:01):

It's an initial statement from the faction.

Asbed (00:10:04):

The statement lists an extensive number of reasons why Pashinyan has failed the

Asbed (00:10:08):

state and should be removed from his position.

Asbed (00:10:11):

Can you please discuss for us the motivations behind issuing this statement?

Armen (00:10:15):

Exactly.

Armen (00:10:16):

Exactly.

Armen (00:10:17):

You are very correct in your assessments because,

Armen (00:10:22):

yes,

Armen (00:10:23):

in some media outlets,

Armen (00:10:24):

I have made the wrong,

Armen (00:10:28):

not clear assessment of this state.

Armen (00:10:31):

It's not a statement of vote of non-confidence.

Armen (00:10:35):

It's a statement about the necessity of vote, which is the difference.

Armen (00:10:39):

Why?

Armen (00:10:40):

First of all,

Armen (00:10:41):

you know that parliamentary hearings are a very important mechanism for any

Armen (00:10:46):

democratic society,

Armen (00:10:48):

especially for the parliamentary republics like Armenia is or supposed to be.

Armen (00:10:53):

So by this statement, we have...

Armen (00:10:56):

We are creating a chance for the societal groups,

Armen (00:11:00):

I mean, non-parliamentary political forces,

Armen (00:11:03):

leaders,

Armen (00:11:04):

the opinion makers,

Armen (00:11:06):

the societal involved groups to be part of this process.

Armen (00:11:12):

So parliamentary hearings are very important instrument to involve,

Armen (00:11:17):

to make inclusive this process,

Armen (00:11:20):

impeachment process or the vote of non-confidence process should be more inclusive.

Armen (00:11:25):

And this is why our parliamentary faction initialized this document.

Armen (00:11:30):

The second reason is it's another try to mobilize oppositionally placed or

Armen (00:11:39):

oppositionally perceived political forces in the parliament and outside the

Armen (00:11:44):

parliament.

Armen (00:11:46):

about the exits from this situation.

Armen (00:11:51):

Because globally, the part of the opposition is discussing elections.

Armen (00:11:57):

Another part is still thinking about the removal of Parshinyan before parliamentary elections.

Armen (00:12:06):

So what is the difference?

Armen (00:12:07):

The difference is very clear.

Armen (00:12:10):

Every day, every week,

Armen (00:12:11):

every month of Armenia under Pashinyan's regime is full of threats,

Armen (00:12:20):

full of risks,

Armen (00:12:22):

is full of new concessions,

Armen (00:12:24):

is full of new dark secrets.

Armen (00:12:27):

You know, Nicole Pashino's regime is like an internet.

Armen (00:12:30):

Only the small part is visible.

Armen (00:12:33):

Another part is darknet.

Armen (00:12:36):

So it's dark Nicole.

Armen (00:12:37):

There is a visible Nicole with his populistic level down content speeches, etc.

Armen (00:12:47):

And there is a dark Nicole.

Asbed (00:12:48):

Thanks for putting it in technology terms when you're talking to two IT people.

Armen (00:12:54):

I wasn't aware of your IT background,

Armen (00:12:57):

but yeah,

Armen (00:12:58):

maybe I also understand something from medicine.

Armen (00:13:02):

It's a kind of technique, but created by the gut for the people.

Armen (00:13:07):

And so this darkening call is much more dangerous and every day of his regime,

Armen (00:13:13):

as we have seen during these weeks.

Armen (00:13:17):

Just a short reminder, we proposed a vote of non-confidence mechanism for his removal in June.

Armen (00:13:27):

At that time, nobody talked about Washington memorandum.

Armen (00:13:33):

Nobody talked about new attacks on the church.

Armen (00:13:37):

Nobody was aware about imprisonment of Samuel Karapetan, for example, or bishops, et cetera.

Armen (00:13:46):

So in June,

Armen (00:13:47):

we proposed we were alarming about the risk of continuation of Nikol Pashinyan

Armen (00:13:55):

government.

Armen (00:13:56):

In August, in July, we have seen, we have faced different new manifestations of this disease.

Armen (00:14:05):

So it means that now is September,

Armen (00:14:08):

if parliamentary or non-parliamentary opposition would rely on

Armen (00:14:16):

elections as a mechanism of shifting the power in Armenia,

Armen (00:14:20):

it means that Nikol Pashinyan will get another several months for his dark affairs

Armen (00:14:27):

and secret affairs from Armenian society.

Armen (00:14:29):

So this initiative of the statement,

Armen (00:14:34):

of the draft statement,

Armen (00:14:38):

it's another try to gather together,

Armen (00:14:41):

gather around the national flag

Armen (00:14:44):

to mobilize opposition despite sectorial political interests or their individual

Armen (00:14:52):

political tastes.

Armen (00:14:53):

So it's not about party interest.

Armen (00:14:57):

It's about the national interest.

Armen (00:14:58):

So my party has no partial

Armen (00:15:03):

or divided into our special interest in this process our interests are shared with

Armen (00:15:10):

majority of Armenian society so our only interest is to shift the power in Armenia

Armen (00:15:16):

to change the Nikol Pashinyan's regime and to have a transitional kind of

Armen (00:15:23):

transitional technocratic government which will be mandated for the preparation of

Armen (00:15:31):

really free and fair elections

Armen (00:15:33):

So this kind of action, I mean, initiative plus parliamentary hearings, it's another...

Armen (00:15:43):

possibility,

Armen (00:15:44):

opportunity for the oppositionally minded people to think about the future,

Armen (00:15:52):

because it's not a secret that Nicole Karchinia's propaganda,

Armen (00:15:56):

unfortunately,

Armen (00:15:57):

is much stronger,

Armen (00:15:59):

much more powerful than oppositional media activity.

Armen (00:16:03):

So our resources are incomparable in that sense.

Hovik (00:16:08):

Mr. Asherdan, we want to talk more about your draft motion.

Hovik (00:16:14):

But I just want to,

Hovik (00:16:15):

for our foreign listeners who are not familiar with Armenia's details of the

Hovik (00:16:21):

Armenian political landscape,

Hovik (00:16:22):

I want to mention that there are two opposition

Hovik (00:16:25):

factions in the Armenian Parliament,

Hovik (00:16:28):

which the Republican Party is a member of,

Hovik (00:16:30):

which only has six seats.

Hovik (00:16:32):

Initially,

Hovik (00:16:33):

they had seven, but they now have six because of one person,

Hovik (00:16:36):

I guess,

Hovik (00:16:37):

left the faction.

Hovik (00:16:38):

The other faction, which is Hayastan, has 26 seats.

Hovik (00:16:42):

They also had initially one more seat, but that reduced due to attrition.

Hovik (00:16:47):

Now, the process for impeachment is as follows.

Hovik (00:16:51):

A valid motion will require the mention of the prime ministerial candidate.

Hovik (00:16:56):

The initial motion will require the signature of 36 MPs.

Hovik (00:17:00):

For those who did the math already, good.

Hovik (00:17:03):

But for those who didn't, there are 32 MPs.

Hovik (00:17:06):

members in the opposition formally, and just the motion itself requires 36 MPs.

Hovik (00:17:14):

And then once the motion is accepted,

Hovik (00:17:16):

it will have to gather the votes of at least 54,

Hovik (00:17:19):

I believe,

Hovik (00:17:20):

if my math is correct,

Hovik (00:17:21):

MPs in order for it to be successful.

Hovik (00:17:24):

Can you tell us more about your motion and what has been the reaction of the

Hovik (00:17:29):

Hayasthan faction so far?

Hovik (00:17:31):

And how do you propose to pass this challenge of,

Hovik (00:17:35):

you know,

Hovik (00:17:36):

obviously you would have to get defections from the opposition in order for just a

Hovik (00:17:41):

motion to be accepted to get on the agenda,

Hovik (00:17:44):

let alone for it to pass.

Hovik (00:17:47):

You know, you described

Armen (00:17:51):

very thoroughly the procedure.

Armen (00:17:55):

But it's not about procedures.

Armen (00:17:57):

Yes, constitution, democracy is also about institutions, procedures, yes.

Armen (00:18:02):

But it's also about the public opinion.

Armen (00:18:05):

So you know that the public opinion in Armenia,

Armen (00:18:08):

according to the different surveys,

Armen (00:18:11):

are anti-Pashinyan.

Armen (00:18:13):

And the public opinion should be reflected in political decisions.

Armen (00:18:19):

So why I am underlying this reason,

Armen (00:18:22):

because it's very clear that to have a success in this vote of non-confident story,

Armen (00:18:30):

we should also mobilize the streets.

Armen (00:18:33):

The people of Armenia should voice their discontent with Pashinyan's regime.

Armen (00:18:43):

And to do that, it's very important

Armen (00:18:46):

First, to provide constitutionally-based instruments for such a fight,

Armen (00:18:53):

because before that,

Armen (00:18:55):

yes, we had three or four mass protests,

Armen (00:18:59):

actions, demonstrations,

Armen (00:19:01):

movements, let's me say,

Armen (00:19:02):

in Armenia against Nikolmashina.

Armen (00:19:05):

Since 2020, November 9, I count four.

Armen (00:19:11):

movements against Pashinyan regime.

Armen (00:19:13):

And unfortunately,

Armen (00:19:15):

none of them was backed by constitutionally based,

Armen (00:19:22):

constitutionally operational parliamentary instrument.

Armen (00:19:26):

So it is the first time that parliamentary opposition,

Armen (00:19:31):

namely Republican Party of Armenia faction,

Armen (00:19:34):

but even MSU said,

Armen (00:19:36):

is proposing to create,

Armen (00:19:38):

to build up such kind of constitutional mechanism,

Armen (00:19:42):

which could be coupled with street demonstrations and mass protests.

Armen (00:19:49):

So only mass protests are not leading to the success,

Armen (00:19:52):

and it is experienced from the previous four years.

Armen (00:19:58):

Only constitutional mechanisms are not working because

Armen (00:20:03):

Parliament, opposition has no majority in the parliament.

Armen (00:20:08):

It should be combined action, not only synchronization, but also potensation to make this work.

Armen (00:20:16):

And we do believe that in Armenia,

Armen (00:20:19):

a majority of the people will be ready to vocalize,

Armen (00:20:23):

to voice their protests and discontent with Pashinyan's regime.

Armen (00:20:28):

Once again,

Armen (00:20:29):

they are assured that this time opposition will go in constitutional sense till the

Armen (00:20:38):

end.

Armen (00:20:39):

And this is very important to go till the end, which is provided by the Constitution.

Armen (00:20:45):

I mean,

Armen (00:20:46):

in this sense,

Armen (00:20:48):

this is a vote of non-confidence initiative,

Armen (00:20:51):

which is really maybe the only instrument which hasn't been used by opposition

Armen (00:20:59):

before to try to replace Pashinyan with another more nationally oriented

Armen (00:21:06):

government.

Armen (00:21:07):

So I am against this myopic contest between oppositional forces, frankly speaking.

Armen (00:21:15):

This contest which is going on is really very myopic.

Armen (00:21:19):

So we are surprised,

Armen (00:21:21):

negatively surprised,

Armen (00:21:23):

with reactions from the biggest opposition faction got up to now.

Armen (00:21:30):

So maybe, and I do hope, that these hearings and this initiative

Armen (00:21:36):

could bring another chance for intra-oppositional dialogue, if I am allowed to say that.

Armen (00:21:42):

Because oppositional separatism,

Armen (00:21:45):

I mean when every political force in opposition is trying to ride their own horse,

Armen (00:21:52):

despite the common race,

Armen (00:21:56):

it's not a proper action,

Armen (00:21:59):

it's not a proper modus operandi,

Armen (00:22:05):

So oppositional separatism should be stopped.

Armen (00:22:09):

Opposition should be gathered around the common ground around the common idea

Armen (00:22:18):

And the political calculus for this moment should be stopped.

Armen (00:22:26):

And it's very crucial to understand this approach,

Armen (00:22:30):

to spread this approach amid as many oppositional leaders as possible.

Armen (00:22:36):

So as you could see, I am avoiding

Armen (00:22:42):

uh,

Armen (00:22:43):

divisive rhetoric now because it's,

Armen (00:22:47):

uh, I,

Armen (00:22:48):

I can't say that it was a,

Armen (00:22:51):

uh,

Armen (00:22:52):

it, it, it wasn't war,

Armen (00:22:53):

but it was a contest between opposition.

Armen (00:22:55):

So I want to stop it to call all the forces who are really interested in replacing

Armen (00:23:03):

Pashinyan,

Armen (00:23:05):

uh, and not providing their place under the political sun here in Armenia.

Armen (00:23:11):

because there are also some opposition forces that maybe are driven by their own

Armen (00:23:18):

political ego,

Armen (00:23:20):

not by the common political interests.

Asbed (00:23:22):

Mr. Ashotyan,

Asbed (00:23:23):

we are coming to the meat of the matter that we're trying to understand,

Asbed (00:23:27):

because there have been differences between Pativ Unem and Hayastan Dashinq.

Asbed (00:23:32):

Are these differences, we are trying to understand tactical differences,

Asbed (00:23:35):

You are proposing to go down the path of impeachment.

Asbed (00:23:40):

Hayastan Dashing seems more interested in going down the path of 2026 elections.

Asbed (00:23:47):

And we want to know if the differences between the two parties are completely

Asbed (00:23:51):

tactical or are there deeper issues that are not made public,

Asbed (00:23:55):

that the public simply just sits on the side and says,

Asbed (00:23:59):

we don't understand why the opposition is unable to do anything.

Asbed (00:24:03):

And the other issue is even when you get maybe I'll ask you after you respond the

Asbed (00:24:08):

first one, but we want to understand how you plan to overcome the mathematics of the fact that

Asbed (00:24:14):

between the two oppositions,

Asbed (00:24:15):

26 plus six votes,

Asbed (00:24:18):

you still are not at 36 votes.

Asbed (00:24:20):

You still are not at the 54 votes required to for a successful impeachment.

Asbed (00:24:26):

How is this process going to succeed?

Asbed (00:24:28):

We're trying to understand this.

Armen (00:24:32):

Two very big and very important questions, let me say.

Armen (00:24:36):

The first one, I will try to answer very short.

Armen (00:24:41):

I want to believe, no, I do believe,

Armen (00:24:47):

that the differences between oppositional forces,

Armen (00:24:51):

I mean, my party and I stand the ashing,

Armen (00:24:53):

are really tactical.

Armen (00:24:55):

I want to believe in that.

Armen (00:24:57):

And second point,

Armen (00:24:58):

even tactical differences could be crucial now for the country if opposition is not

Armen (00:25:06):

united.

Armen (00:25:07):

So yes, let's call the differences tactical,

Armen (00:25:12):

No, the tactical differences even are not allowed in this vital context.

Armen (00:25:18):

I was very honest in my answer.

Armen (00:25:21):

So the second part of your question,

Armen (00:25:25):

you know,

Armen (00:25:26):

I have some international connections,

Armen (00:25:29):

mainly in Europe.

Armen (00:25:31):

And after being allowed to make a communication after my ban, after my arrest,

Armen (00:25:38):

Many of my colleagues in European Parliament,

Armen (00:25:41):

in European political institutions,

Armen (00:25:43):

European parties are asking me,

Armen (00:25:44):

Armen,

Armen (00:25:45):

if everything is so bad,

Armen (00:25:48):

as you describe, as you say, why there is no resistance in your country?

Armen (00:25:54):

Why our ambassadors are not reporting any resistance to Pashinyan policies in your country?

Armen (00:26:03):

And this question, yeah, I understand the cynicism of this question.

Armen (00:26:07):

But on the other hand, they have grounds to say it.

Armen (00:26:11):

Because yes, since Sartazan Baikar,

Armen (00:26:16):

since last year,

Armen (00:26:17):

in this year on the House,

Armen (00:26:19):

Parshinyan faced no resistance,

Armen (00:26:23):

no clear,

Armen (00:26:25):

strong mass resistance for his policies.

Armen (00:26:32):

On the impeachment, by the way, if we say about the

Armen (00:26:36):

added value of this process added value of this process at least is to show to the

Armen (00:26:42):

international community that there is constitutionally based constitutionally

Armen (00:26:47):

guaranteed resistance to his policies maybe mathematics is against for in this

Armen (00:26:55):

context but it's not only about the math and i am coming to the second to another

Armen (00:27:00):

part of your question our math will will be overcome overcome

Armen (00:27:07):

I have temptation to say very easy, but I know that it's not very easy.

Armen (00:27:15):

The mathematics in the parliament could be and should be overcome by the

Armen (00:27:21):

mathematics on the street,

Armen (00:27:23):

on the streets of Armenia.

Asbed (00:27:27):

So you are proposing actually dual action, both straight action and combined opposition action.

Armen (00:27:34):

Two components of dual action, exactly.

Armen (00:27:37):

the parliamentary component and the street protest component.

Armen (00:27:42):

But we can't gather streets.

Armen (00:27:44):

We can't make the people believe that this time they will succeed if we can't

Armen (00:27:52):

convince our oppositional colleagues to join us, you see?

Asbed (00:27:55):

Yeah.

Armen (00:27:55):

So I can't convince citizens if I can't convince opposition.

Armen (00:28:00):

Absolutely.

Armen (00:28:01):

The part of opposition.

Armen (00:28:03):

So to convince people,

Armen (00:28:04):

it's very important to show the opposition united,

Armen (00:28:09):

gathered around the national flag and national interest.

Armen (00:28:13):

In that case, we will get a chance to convey the message of the unity and the last and very

Armen (00:28:19):

important fight against Nikol Pashinyan regime to my fellow citizens.

Asbed (00:28:24):

Mr. Ashotyan, so far we have talked about Pativ Unem and Hayastan Dashing.

Asbed (00:28:29):

Of course, these are the parliamentary opposition.

Asbed (00:28:31):

How do we factor in the movement that has the most popularity,

Asbed (00:28:35):

including civil contract,

Asbed (00:28:37):

the ruling party,

Asbed (00:28:38):

and that's Samvel Karapetyan's Mer Dzevov,

Asbed (00:28:41):

Our Way movement?

Armen (00:28:44):

We are, as the Republican Party of Armenia, we are very eager for his success.

Armen (00:28:54):

We want this movement to be successful first because Samvel Karapetyan is a national asset.

Armen (00:29:02):

And I mean not, I don't mean money.

Armen (00:29:06):

I mean the type of the nationally thinking or nationally oriented rich man.

Armen (00:29:13):

Totally understand. This is very rare.

Armen (00:29:15):

Nationally oriented capitalist or entrepreneur, call it as you want.

Armen (00:29:20):

But this is really national asset himself, not his money.

Armen (00:29:24):

because of the way of thinking, because of the culture of the business is spread in Armenia.

Armen (00:29:31):

The nationally oriented capital money are so important,

Armen (00:29:34):

and this is so bright spot in Armenian dark money reality.

Armen (00:29:40):

The second, we are very interested in this success because if in the opposition camp,

Armen (00:29:48):

we could have another very strong oppositional party or center or nucleus.

Armen (00:29:57):

It would only add additional forces to the opposition in this political fight.

Armen (00:30:03):

And the first is very important for us to have Samuel Karapetan released.

Armen (00:30:11):

from the prison.

Armen (00:30:12):

And so these three factors are driving our interests towards their success on this movement.

Armen (00:30:19):

So we have no jealousy.

Armen (00:30:21):

We have, uh,

Armen (00:30:24):

No hidden motives here.

Armen (00:30:26):

It's very clear.

Armen (00:30:27):

We want them to be successful because Samvel Karapetyan is a national asset, a rich man.

Armen (00:30:33):

Samvel Karapetyan should be freed because he's a political prisoner.

Armen (00:30:40):

And the stronger opposition is,

Armen (00:30:43):

the bigger opposition is,

Armen (00:30:45):

the more chances we have to topple Nikol Pashinyan's government.

Asbed (00:30:50):

You mentioned a couple of minutes ago that you want to go through every legal

Asbed (00:30:54):

possible way to do this.

Asbed (00:30:55):

Nikol Pashinyan has shown that he will do anything to retain his seat.

Asbed (00:30:59):

He will play dirty.

Asbed (00:31:01):

He doesn't hesitate to take illegal steps.

Asbed (00:31:03):

He controls the police,

Asbed (00:31:05):

the army,

Asbed (00:31:06):

what's left of it,

Asbed (00:31:07):

the judges,

Asbed (00:31:08):

the attorney general,

Asbed (00:31:10):

even the intel service,

Asbed (00:31:11):

which spies and gathers compromise on everyone,

Asbed (00:31:14):

including everyone in the church.

Asbed (00:31:16):

He has shown that whenever an opposition movement gains momentum,

Asbed (00:31:20):

he'll throw the leadership in jail,

Asbed (00:31:22):

pretrial detention for months and months until the movement loses momentum and

Asbed (00:31:26):

dissipates.

Asbed (00:31:27):

But you know what?

Asbed (00:31:28):

Who am I talking with?

Asbed (00:31:29):

You spent 15 months or whatever, a year and a half in jail.

Asbed (00:31:35):

So I'm not the one to remind you of this.

Armen (00:31:37):

Including house arrest.

Armen (00:31:39):

Yes, it was more than two years.

Armen (00:31:41):

Yes, we are ready for that.

Asbed (00:31:42):

Are you ready for a situation where he's just going to do all these things and

Asbed (00:31:46):

there's no legal recourse?

Asbed (00:31:48):

What if the impeachment process becomes a thing and the next thing you know,

Asbed (00:31:52):

the opposition leaders are all arrested and thrown in jail?

Armen (00:31:58):

Personally, I am ready for that because if something doesn't kill you, it makes you stronger.

Armen (00:32:06):

I'm citing the Nietzsche, I guess.

Armen (00:32:10):

So this prison time didn't kill me.

Armen (00:32:15):

On the contrary, it made me stronger.

Armen (00:32:18):

My party is rooted in this political background.

Armen (00:32:24):

I mean, it has been

Armen (00:32:27):

uh underground party in soviet time for their political dissident uh ideas so it's

Armen (00:32:33):

not we are not afraid from the of these possible developments but most important

Armen (00:32:42):

thing if

Armen (00:32:46):

If your proposed by you or cited by your approach is so inevitable for every

Armen (00:32:55):

authoritarian regime to cling to the power,

Armen (00:33:02):

changes would never happen in the world.

Armen (00:33:05):

So every autocrat tried to do all the bunch of repressions you just listed.

Armen (00:33:15):

So imprisonment, dirty games, et cetera, et cetera.

Armen (00:33:20):

How many of them survived?

Armen (00:33:22):

I mean, politically survived.

Armen (00:33:24):

So if we...

Armen (00:33:28):

really are successful in mobilizing the public, not only public opinion.

Armen (00:33:34):

So let me say it,

Armen (00:33:35):

maybe in bad English,

Armen (00:33:37):

but in good in good art,

Armen (00:33:40):

maybe it's not enough to mobilize the public opinion.

Armen (00:33:47):

It's very because public opinion is against Pashinyan.

Armen (00:33:50):

It's clear by any survey.

Asbed (00:33:52):

Every poll shows it.

Armen (00:33:53):

Yeah.

Armen (00:33:54):

It's very important to mobilize public actions.

Armen (00:33:58):

because opinion is a passive phenomenon.

Armen (00:34:02):

Participation is a very important thing.

Armen (00:34:06):

So if every citizen who is against Pashinyan policies and saying no to Pashinyan

Armen (00:34:12):

impulse makes efforts to go to the streets,

Armen (00:34:19):

but not once,

Armen (00:34:22):

Majority of Armenians,

Armen (00:34:23):

I guess,

Armen (00:34:24):

believes that, you know,

Armen (00:34:25):

the miracle would happen if they all gather for one day on the Republic Square.

Armen (00:34:32):

No, miracles are not happening by one actions.

Armen (00:34:38):

So even 2018 was a process.

Armen (00:34:44):

It was a process prepared during the years by underground network of- NGOs and everything.

Armen (00:34:52):

Absolutely.

Armen (00:34:53):

are very specific angels because i have no nothing against ngos itself as very

Armen (00:34:58):

specific let me say ngos doing very dirty uh work for uh against arminia and for

Armen (00:35:06):

some internal external actors so it's very important to transform public opinion

Armen (00:35:13):

into public actions and i think

Armen (00:35:19):

uh the failure of the biggest movement i mean serpazar movement was because they

Armen (00:35:26):

organizers with all my due respect and uh open heart for their for their fight i

Armen (00:35:34):

was imprisoned unfortunately they are now in prison the leaders i mean baghdad uh

Armen (00:35:39):

serpazan etc and other leaders but their failure was because they were able

Armen (00:35:46):

to light up the hearts of the people, but they were not able to provide enough

Armen (00:35:56):

hope and energy for the actions, I mean actions.

Armen (00:36:01):

And we don't want this oppositional initiative,

Armen (00:36:06):

I mean impeachment,

Armen (00:36:07):

to be another shot in the dark.

Armen (00:36:10):

But we don't need this.

Armen (00:36:12):

Especially before elections, you can see that any failure

Armen (00:36:19):

of oppositional fight against Pashinyan, the last failure will be the biggest one.

Armen (00:36:26):

In the logic of campaign,

Armen (00:36:29):

the future campaign,

Armen (00:36:31):

who failed the last attempt to topple Pashinyan regime will suffer the most.

Armen (00:36:38):

So Republican Party is taking the most, the biggest risk, even in electoral logic.

Armen (00:36:45):

What we are saying, we are saying, let's try again.

Armen (00:36:48):

Let's try again before elections.

Armen (00:36:51):

If we don't succeed, you can put all the mistakes on us during electoral campaign.

Armen (00:36:58):

So we understand the logic, we understand the risk.

Armen (00:37:02):

But I think even the staunchest opposition,

Armen (00:37:07):

if I could say,

Armen (00:37:08):

the strongest opposition,

Armen (00:37:10):

sometimes needs makeover.

Armen (00:37:15):

And Armenian opposition, even parliamentary one,

Armen (00:37:18):

Even my party, including, needs a makeover to restart, to rethink and restart.

Armen (00:37:27):

And elections are not the best opportunity to do that.

Armen (00:37:30):

Because as I said before,

Armen (00:37:33):

if we have a common race,

Armen (00:37:35):

it's not a good idea to ride your own horse separately.

Hovik (00:37:42):

Now, Pashinyan has said that the alternative to him

Hovik (00:37:46):

is going to be war.

Hovik (00:37:48):

He's already setting up his campaign,

Hovik (00:37:49):

you know,

Hovik (00:37:50):

he's going to be brandishing that piece of paper like a sword,

Hovik (00:37:54):

saying, I brought you peace,

Hovik (00:37:55):

I brought you peace.

Hovik (00:37:56):

It's obvious that he has the support of every single sort of,

Hovik (00:38:00):

you know,

Hovik (00:38:01):

European and foreign,

Hovik (00:38:02):

you know, Western institution,

Hovik (00:38:03):

you know,

Hovik (00:38:05):

almost.

Hovik (00:38:07):

But what do you think about this dichotomy between it's either him or vote for war

Hovik (00:38:15):

in the upcoming,

Hovik (00:38:16):

you know,

Hovik (00:38:17):

whenever there's a change?

Armen (00:38:18):

Another false narrative.

Armen (00:38:20):

Another false narrative, which is nourished by official propaganda, by administrative leverages.

Armen (00:38:28):

Yes, this is the story he is trying to sell to the people before elections.

Armen (00:38:35):

This is clear cut example of manipulation and distorting the facts because let's

Armen (00:38:45):

explain all the fingers are very simple.

Armen (00:38:48):

What is peace about?

Armen (00:38:50):

When the peace can come?

Armen (00:38:53):

When it is secure?

Armen (00:38:55):

The peace is coming when it is secure.

Armen (00:38:59):

So peace

Armen (00:39:01):

is a consequence of security.

Armen (00:39:04):

If you have security, if you are secure, you will have peace.

Armen (00:39:09):

You can't have peace alone.

Armen (00:39:12):

There is no such kind of phenomena of peace without security.

Armen (00:39:17):

So it's crazy.

Armen (00:39:18):

The story he's trying to sell to the people is a story to say,

Armen (00:39:24):

maybe he's thinking that Armenian people are really so stupid that they will

Armen (00:39:29):

believe in this tale of peace without security.

Armen (00:39:34):

It's impossible.

Armen (00:39:36):

So first of all, what is our approach?

Armen (00:39:40):

Armenia needs security.

Armen (00:39:43):

and peace will come if Armenia is secure.

Armen (00:39:47):

If Armenia is insecure as now,

Armen (00:39:50):

peace would never come because you can't have a peace by paper,

Armen (00:39:58):

even by prayers,

Armen (00:40:00):

because even prayers need actions.

Armen (00:40:04):

So even in case you are praying,

Armen (00:40:07):

you need to prove to the God that you are ready to be changed,

Armen (00:40:11):

to change yourself.

Armen (00:40:13):

So even prayers need action.

Armen (00:40:16):

There is no connection to the God without action from your side.

Armen (00:40:19):

There is no peace without...

Armen (00:40:22):

additional efforts to make a country really secure.

Armen (00:40:25):

And when I say secure, it's not only about, you know, how multilateral is security now.

Armen (00:40:32):

It's not only about the army.

Armen (00:40:34):

It's not only about the forces.

Armen (00:40:36):

It's also about the economy.

Armen (00:40:38):

about information and disinformation, it's about cyberspace.

Armen (00:40:45):

So security is much more inclusive and broader context of the peace.

Armen (00:40:51):

So what is trying to sell to Armenian people?

Armen (00:40:57):

The peace itself doesn't exist, let me say.

Armen (00:41:00):

So if it's not guaranteed by security mechanism, it's only a piece of paper

Armen (00:41:08):

which is not worth the money of the paper itself.

Asbed (00:41:12):

Mr.

Asbed (00:41:13):

Ashotyan, you know,

Asbed (00:41:14):

there has been a lot of talk how Azerbaijan and Turkey have essentially declared

Asbed (00:41:22):

Pashinyan as their favorite candidate for the next elections in Armenia.

Asbed (00:41:27):

Assuming that Pashinyan knows that at the moment that he is deposed,

Asbed (00:41:31):

Aliyev,

Asbed (00:41:32):

Azerbaijan is going to attack Armenia.

Asbed (00:41:35):

Is the opposition actually ready for war?

Asbed (00:41:38):

Are you ready to deploy the army to defend the borders?

Asbed (00:41:43):

Because it seems to me that Pashinyan is not ready for that.

Armen (00:41:49):

Your story,

Armen (00:41:50):

your question,

Armen (00:41:51):

based on real facts,

Armen (00:41:55):

because in 2018,

Armen (00:41:56):

and this is already proven,

Armen (00:42:00):

it is proven,

Armen (00:42:01):

Nikol Pashinyan asked,

Armen (00:42:03):

begged Aliyev not to shoot on the borders,

Armen (00:42:07):

saying that

Armen (00:42:09):

He has parliamentary elections in 2018 and to prevent Republicans to come back to

Armen (00:42:16):

make a revenge.

Armen (00:42:18):

So it's necessary to keep peace on the borders.

Asbed (00:42:21):

Do you mean 2021 or 2018?

Asbed (00:42:22):

No, I mean 2018. And Aliyev disclosed this dialogue.

Armen (00:42:32):

just after the recent war, and Pashinyan didn't react.

Armen (00:42:37):

So I take it as a reality,

Armen (00:42:39):

because it's very clear that this happened like,

Armen (00:42:44):

unfortunately,

Armen (00:42:45):

this happened like President Aliyev said.

Armen (00:42:47):

So now I can't reject the idea that Nikol Pashinyan can ask Aliyev to shoot in case

Armen (00:42:59):

of his failure.

Armen (00:43:03):

Nikol Pashinyan is not a magician.

Armen (00:43:05):

He's not the master of the world.

Armen (00:43:11):

He is not, maybe he is ruling Armenia as a country, but he is not ruling the region.

Armen (00:43:17):

And moreover, he is not ruling the globe.

Armen (00:43:19):

So I do believe that in case Armenian peoples succeed in the fight against

Armen (00:43:27):

Pashinyan regimes,

Armen (00:43:29):

we will get not war.

Armen (00:43:31):

but we will get a pause, very essential pause for us.

Armen (00:43:36):

And if it is legitimate,

Armen (00:43:38):

that is why it's very important to have a constitutionally proven change of the

Armen (00:43:45):

power in Armenia.

Armen (00:43:46):

If this is legitimate change of the power and the vote of non-confidence is very

Armen (00:43:52):

legitimate way to change the government in every democratic country or at least on

Armen (00:43:58):

paper democratic country.

Armen (00:44:00):

So I don't believe that Nikol and Aliyev will be able to play this card of the war

Armen (00:44:09):

in this region against Armenian people if Armenian people finally take their future

Armen (00:44:18):

in their own hands by,

Armen (00:44:20):

I want to repeat it,

Armen (00:44:22):

by constitutionally legitimate mechanism.

Hovik (00:44:26):

All right, Mr. Ashotyan, thank you again very much for your time.

Hovik (00:44:31):

And we have abused even more than you had.

Hovik (00:44:36):

So thank you again.

Hovik (00:44:37):

And we hope that you can come back sometime in the future when we have more questions for you.

Armen (00:44:44):

Maybe next time I will be back to my previous shape,

Armen (00:44:51):

and I mean previous before a rest shape,

Armen (00:44:53):

and we will be able to speak without these pauses and some funny for me,

Armen (00:44:58):

retrospectively funny for me mistakes.

Asbed (00:45:02):

We look forward to it, and we wish you guys much success.

Armen (00:45:06):

Thank you very much. Thanks a lot, Asbed.

Armen (00:45:07):

Thanks a lot, Hovik.

Armen (00:45:08):

Thanks a lot.

Armen (00:45:09):

Talk to you soon.

Armen (00:45:11):

Have a nice day. See you.

Armen (00:45:12):

Bye.

Asbed (00:45:14):

Well, that's our show today, Hovik.

Asbed (00:45:16):

This episode, we recorded it on September 17, 2025.

Asbed (00:45:20):

We've been talking with Armin Ashotyan.

Asbed (00:45:24):

He is the vice president of the Republican Party of Armenia,

Asbed (00:45:27):

which is one of the factions in the Pativ Unem alliance in the parliament.

Asbed (00:45:33):

From 2005 to 2007,

Asbed (00:45:34):

Mr. Ashotyan was a member of the National Assembly and chaired the Committee on Foreign

Asbed (00:45:39):

Relations.

Asbed (00:45:40):

From 2009 to 2017, Ashotyan served as Minister of Education and Science.

Asbed (00:45:47):

In 2017,

Asbed (00:45:48):

Ashotyan was elected to the parliament again and served there until December 2018,

Asbed (00:45:52):

the snap parliamentary elections.

Hovik (00:45:55):

Well, here we are.

Hovik (00:45:56):

This was a very interesting interview for us.

Hovik (00:46:01):

It will probably be specific to Armenia,

Hovik (00:46:04):

so it won't get a lot of views,

Hovik (00:46:05):

but I'm pretty sure for those who want quality coverage of Armenian politics,

Hovik (00:46:14):

you're getting it from the horse's mouth,

Hovik (00:46:16):

so to speak.

Hovik (00:46:17):

So we appreciate you listening and watching.

Hovik (00:46:20):

And if you appreciate us doing this and spending all of our time preparing this

Hovik (00:46:24):

podcast, then we will also appreciate if you could show that by commenting,

Hovik (00:46:29):

liking,

Hovik (00:46:30):

sharing.

Hovik (00:46:31):

And if you can,

Hovik (00:46:32):

and if you want to,

Hovik (00:46:33):

then also donating to us because that helps us reach out to more people.

Hovik (00:46:39):

You can donate by going to podcasts.groong.org / donate.

Hovik (00:46:43):

And that's much more convenient for us than looking for money on the darker sides of the web.

Hovik (00:46:49):

So I'm sure you don't want us going there.

Hovik (00:46:51):

So please consider helping us out.

Asbed (00:46:55):

All right.

Asbed (00:46:56):

Thank you, Hovig.

Asbed (00:46:58):

So when you go to podcasts.groong.org / donate,

Asbed (00:47:02):

pick Patreon or pick buy me a coffee,

Asbed (00:47:05):

become a sustaining member and give regularly or just buy us a coffee.

Hovik (00:47:10):

I'm Hovik Manucharyan in hot Glendale, California.

Asbed (00:47:14):

And I'm Asbed Bedrossian, same place.

Asbed (00:47:17):

We'll talk to you soon.

Asbed (00:47:19):

Bye-bye.

People on this episode

Head Shot

Asbed Bedrossian

Co-host
Head Shot

Hovik Manucharyan

Co-host
Head Shot

Armen Ashotyan

Guest

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