Armenian News Network - Groong: Week In Review Podcast

Arthur Martirosyan - Sep 19, Civil Contract, Opposition Inaction, Electric Network | Ep 474, Sep 21, 2025

• Armenian News Network / Groong • Episode 474

Share episode

Sep 19, Civil Contract, Opposition Inaction, Electric Network

Groong Week in Review - September 21, 2025

Topics

  • September 19, 2023, two years on
      Artsakh: blockade, starvation, Yerevan’s position, ethnic cleansing, and lasting effects on Armenia.
  • Civil Contract’s 7th Congress and the “Fourth Republic”**  
      New constitution path after 2026, Alma-Ata framing, EU track, and institutionalizing peace. Fourth Republic. Brand or blueprint?
  • Opposition dynamics before 2026**  
      Impeachment versus election focus, fragmentation, and what might sway undecided voters.
  • Electric Networks of Armenia (ENA)**  
      Government “surgical measures,” nationalization vs top-tier foreign manager, and investor risk signals.


Guest

Hosts


Episode 474 | Recorded: September 22, 2025

https://podcasts.groong.org/474


Subscribe and follow us everywhere you are: linktr.ee/groong

Asbed (00:00:04):

Hello, and welcome to the Armenian News Network Groong Week in Review for September 21, 2025.

Asbed (00:00:08):

Today,

Asbed (00:00:10):

we're talking with Arthur Martirosyan,

Asbed (00:00:11):

who is an international conflict negotiations expert.

Asbed (00:00:15):

Hello, Arthur.

Asbed (00:00:16):

Welcome to the Groong Podcast.

Arthur (00:00:17):

Hi, Asbed.

Arthur (00:00:18):

Hi, Hovik.

Arthur (00:00:19):

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Hovik (00:00:20):

Ողջույն Արթիւր։

Hovik (00:00:21):

So,

Hovik (00:00:22):

almost exactly two years ago,

Hovik (00:00:23):

on September 19,

Hovik (00:00:25):

Azerbaijan launched a large-scale attack on the Republic of Artsakh.

Hovik (00:00:29):

And this was after subjecting it to a nine-month blockade.

Hovik (00:00:33):

And what began as airstrikes against military targets also involved civilians,

Hovik (00:00:38):

infrastructure and towns and villages.

Hovik (00:00:41):

And in the space of two days,

Hovik (00:00:42):

223 Armenians were killed,

Hovik (00:00:45):

including 20 civilians and six children.

Hovik (00:00:48):

By September 20th,

Hovik (00:00:50):

and under relentless attack,

Hovik (00:00:51):

with no support from Yerevan,

Hovik (00:00:53):

Artsakh authorities were forced to disarm and disband.

Hovik (00:00:57):

Of course, when I said no support from Yerevan,

Hovik (00:00:59):

I should mention that Nikol Pashinyan explicitly said that Armenia would not come

Hovik (00:01:03):

to the aid of Artsakh.

Hovik (00:01:06):

And what followed was one of the largest forced displacements in modern history.

Hovik (00:01:12):

In Armenian modern history,

Hovik (00:01:13):

120,000 Armenians streamed out of Artsakh or Karabakh to join the other 30,000 who

Hovik (00:01:20):

had already fled during the 2020 war in Armenia.

Hovik (00:01:25):

We all remember the harrowing images of the convoys of cars, people, and other vehicles.

Hovik (00:01:32):

We should also mention that the leadership of Artsakh,

Hovik (00:01:35):

both political and military,

Hovik (00:01:36):

remains in Baku.

Hovik (00:01:38):

They were arrested at that time.

Hovik (00:01:42):

So we want to take a quick look at the events two years later.

Hovik (00:01:47):

What is your assessment?

Hovik (00:01:49):

Could the ethnic cleansing of Artsakh have been averted?

Arthur (00:01:52):

Well, I mean, history does not really... is not written in subjective mood.

Arthur (00:02:00):

Could it have been averted?

Arthur (00:02:03):

Obviously, if you're asking me,

Arthur (00:02:05):

it could have,

Arthur (00:02:06):

because if you had leadership that was determined...

Arthur (00:02:11):

To avoid it, it could have been avoided.

Arthur (00:02:13):

The problem is from some point,

Arthur (00:02:17):

Pashinyan,

Arthur (00:02:19):

and we know that point exactly,

Arthur (00:02:21):

he decided that Artsakh was a burden,

Arthur (00:02:24):

that he was recognizing it as part of Azerbaijan.

Arthur (00:02:30):

And that was the turning point in this conflict,

Arthur (00:02:35):

because if you said A,

Arthur (00:02:37):

you have to continue,

Arthur (00:02:38):

right? I mean, if you're saying it's part of Azerbaijan,

Arthur (00:02:41):

Azerbaijan says, first of all, to the Russian peacekeepers, you don't have a mandate.

Arthur (00:02:48):

Armenia is recognizing it as part of Azerbaijan, and I want to control all of it, right?

Arthur (00:02:55):

So why you Russians should be telling me not to do that on my own territory, right?

Arthur (00:03:02):

So that's one level.

Arthur (00:03:04):

The second level,

Arthur (00:03:05):

obviously,

Arthur (00:03:06):

as you mentioned,

Arthur (00:03:07):

was they kind of washed their hands and said,

Arthur (00:03:12):

we are not interfering.

Arthur (00:03:13):

And if you remember when the events started to escalate,

Arthur (00:03:18):

there were hearings at the UN Security Council where Foreign Affairs Minister of

Arthur (00:03:25):

Armenia

Arthur (00:03:27):

was trying to provide evidence of ethnic cleansing.

Arthur (00:03:31):

And his vis-a-vis from Azerbaijan said,

Arthur (00:03:35):

but your prime minister,

Arthur (00:03:37):

your leader says there is no danger for Armenians.

Arthur (00:03:40):

It's a sort of no danger, but people flee en masse, right?

Arthur (00:03:44):

I mean, that's ethnic cleansing, obviously.

Arthur (00:03:49):

But it's more interesting how the

Arthur (00:03:53):

so-called international community was reacting or not reacting.

Arthur (00:03:58):

And as a number of countries recognizing now independence of Palestine is growing,

Arthur (00:04:06):

we can clearly see that the issue of self-determination is not thrown out.

Arthur (00:04:12):

It's just that it's used by some of these players when it's in their interests,

Arthur (00:04:18):

when they have some...

Arthur (00:04:22):

other issues to solve and it's convenient for them,

Arthur (00:04:26):

they do recognize the right self-determination.

Arthur (00:04:31):

Why they didn't do in our case,

Arthur (00:04:33):

I think they had interests with Azerbaijan and Turkey,

Arthur (00:04:37):

and those interests were more important than interests with Armenia.

Arthur (00:04:41):

And this is the weak point of Armenian diplomacy.

Arthur (00:04:45):

The whole idea of diplomacy is

Arthur (00:04:48):

to find or even create interest and keep the parties interested in the fair

Arthur (00:04:56):

solution to the problem.

Arthur (00:04:58):

But when you have leadership in a country that has given up,

Arthur (00:05:03):

washed its hands,

Arthur (00:05:04):

certainly this scenario couldn't have been avoided.

Arthur (00:05:09):

I think that to a degree,

Arthur (00:05:11):

I would not go as far as to assert that,

Arthur (00:05:15):

but once Pashinyan decided that it's not our headache,

Arthur (00:05:21):

they thought that soon Azerbaijan solved this problem,

Arthur (00:05:24):

no matter how they solve it,

Arthur (00:05:26):

the better for us.

Arthur (00:05:27):

Because they had decided already at that point that they are going for a paradigmatic shift.

Arthur (00:05:34):

And the paradigmatic shift is,

Arthur (00:05:36):

as he presents it,

Arthur (00:05:38):

kind of liberating Armenia from the dependence on Russia,

Arthur (00:05:47):

one. Number two, which is certainly in the interest of various Western players.

Arthur (00:05:52):

Number two,

Arthur (00:05:53):

it's getting closer to Azerbaijan and Turkey,

Arthur (00:05:57):

and this is in the interest of both of the Western and Russia.

Arthur (00:06:01):

And by doing so,

Arthur (00:06:03):

he is hoping that he's going to get permanent peace,

Arthur (00:06:06):

as he says,

Arthur (00:06:07):

100,

Arthur (00:06:08):

150 years.

Arthur (00:06:09):

So when you look at that,

Arthur (00:06:11):

you understand that in his mind,

Arthur (00:06:13):

at least,

Arthur (00:06:14):

Karabakh and Armenian soldiers and officers who died in Karabakh,

Arthur (00:06:21):

That was the price he paid for this liberation, for true real Armenia kind of.

Arthur (00:06:30):

This is certainly a very dangerous concept because it does not really provide you with security.

Arthur (00:06:39):

It's almost like you are again into wishful thinking that if you give everything

Arthur (00:06:47):

that Azerbaijan and Turkey demand,

Arthur (00:06:50):

you will get their promise of eternal peace.

Arthur (00:06:55):

But the list of what they want is difficult to implement,

Arthur (00:06:58):

although he's trying his best and he's going to probably go out of his way to

Arthur (00:07:02):

implement it.

Arthur (00:07:04):

That list is not final.

Arthur (00:07:06):

they will continue to demand because you are the weak chain.

Arthur (00:07:10):

You're totally going to be dependent on their mercy and goodwill.

Arthur (00:07:14):

And because their idea is they don't want Armenia to be a hindrance,

Arthur (00:07:22):

Better if it doesn't exist at all.

Arthur (00:07:24):

But if it does exist,

Arthur (00:07:26):

it should be a very small,

Arthur (00:07:28):

a kind of a midget European country,

Arthur (00:07:31):

much smaller,

Arthur (00:07:32):

maybe Alexandropol-size,

Arthur (00:07:34):

Alexandropol agreement-size country that totally depends on them.

Arthur (00:07:41):

And that's where they're going.

Arthur (00:07:43):

So going back to Artsakh,

Hovik (00:07:46):

Vartan Oskanian always talks about that,

Hovik (00:07:48):

you know, there's always a possibility to fight for the rights of return of Artsakhtsis.

Hovik (00:07:56):

Under current circumstances,

Hovik (00:07:58):

do you believe that there is still a chance to undo some of what Pashinyan has done

Hovik (00:08:03):

if, let's say,

Hovik (00:08:04):

there is a power change?

Hovik (00:08:05):

And what would that look like?

Asbed (00:08:06):

Or can I add one more thing, Arthur?

Asbed (00:08:09):

Even if Pashinyan retains power in 2026,

Asbed (00:08:13):

the reality is that he claims that there will be peace throughout the region and

Asbed (00:08:18):

everything.

Asbed (00:08:19):

Why wouldn't it be possible for him to negotiate a return of 150,000 Artsakhtsis to

Asbed (00:08:24):

their homes to live peacefully?

Arthur (00:08:29):

Well, I certainly believe that there is no problem that doesn't have a solution.

Arthur (00:08:34):

The problem can be driven much deeper into this kind of realm of unresolvable issues.

Arthur (00:08:42):

But I don't think we are there yet.

Arthur (00:08:46):

I don't think either Azerbaijan or Turkey are

Arthur (00:08:51):

in that best shape, so to say, have numerous problems internally.

Arthur (00:08:59):

And I think it's all this thesis that Pashinyan is promoting that

Arthur (00:09:06):

if it's not going to be me, there's going to be a war is an over-exaggeration.

Arthur (00:09:12):

Certainly, you will need very vigorous diplomatic efforts and mobilizing not only diplomacy

Arthur (00:09:21):

and having cadre that can do that,

Arthur (00:09:24):

but also mobilizing diaspora because that's where Armenian diplomacy has been most

Arthur (00:09:29):

efficient in various capitals.

Arthur (00:09:33):

where these decisions are gonna be made.

Arthur (00:09:36):

I don't think the solution is going to be in international organizations,

Arthur (00:09:41):

if we pursue a UN or other.

Arthur (00:09:44):

But if major players,

Arthur (00:09:47):

that is Europe,

Arthur (00:09:48):

Russia,

Arthur (00:09:49):

China,

Arthur (00:09:51):

US obviously,

Arthur (00:09:53):

if they can be lined up in support of the return,

Arthur (00:09:56):

I think it's doable.

Arthur (00:09:58):

It's not gonna happen overnight.

Arthur (00:10:00):

But you need a goal and you need a strategy.

Arthur (00:10:04):

And I'm sure when Oskanian is saying it's possible,

Arthur (00:10:08):

it's not because he's into wishful thinking again,

Arthur (00:10:12):

but because he knows how it has happened in some other cases historically.

Arthur (00:10:19):

And I don't think we need to throw in towel.

Arthur (00:10:23):

But if Pashinyan continues, if he's going to be

Arthur (00:10:28):

reproducing the regime and the Fourth Republic, as he calls it.

Arthur (00:10:34):

The Fourth Republic becomes reality.

Arthur (00:10:37):

Why cannot he then negotiate if the peaceful return?

Arthur (00:10:42):

Because for Aliyev,

Arthur (00:10:46):

The problem is solved.

Arthur (00:10:48):

Why would he want to go back and create that problem again for himself?

Arthur (00:10:53):

And when I say for Aliyev, it's solved.

Arthur (00:10:56):

There are no Armenians.

Arthur (00:10:58):

The problem is solved.

Arthur (00:10:59):

That's how it's solved.

Arthur (00:11:00):

There are no Armenians in Turkey or whatever is left is minuscule and non-significant.

Arthur (00:11:07):

The problem is solved for Turkey.

Asbed (00:11:08):

Well, that is their final solution, of course.

Asbed (00:11:11):

Right.

Asbed (00:11:12):

One thing that I want to bring back,

Asbed (00:11:14):

that mention that you made about 300,000 Azerbaijanis who Aliyev wants to settle in

Asbed (00:11:19):

Armenia.

Asbed (00:11:21):

I've always said in the past,

Asbed (00:11:22):

even on this show,

Asbed (00:11:23):

tie that to the return of Armenians to Baku and Sumgait and Shahumyan.

Asbed (00:11:27):

And as many Armenians as returned to Azerbaijan, that many Azeris can come to Armenia.

Arthur (00:11:33):

That's the equivalence.

Arthur (00:11:34):

That's not it.

Arthur (00:11:35):

You can stall it and the issue will not move.

Arthur (00:11:38):

Of course. That's what you're saying.

Arthur (00:11:39):

And even that is in the interest of Aliyev,

Arthur (00:11:41):

because for him,

Arthur (00:11:42):

it's not so much important that,

Arthur (00:11:44):

as I said,

Arthur (00:11:45):

Azerbaijan is moving to Armenia.

Arthur (00:11:48):

Maybe, maybe some will, but it's not going to be.

Arthur (00:11:50):

I mean, it just as in the case of... Exactly.

Asbed (00:11:54):

And how many Armenians do you expect will move back to Baku?

Arthur (00:11:57):

If you want Armenians to return, then Azeris have to return.

Arthur (00:12:01):

And that negotiation can be stalled forever.

Asbed (00:12:05):

Anyway,

Asbed (00:12:06):

on September 21,

Asbed (00:12:07):

that's yesterday,

Asbed (00:12:09):

Armenia marked its Independence Day commemorating the 1991 referendum that

Asbed (00:12:13):

established the Third Republic and rooted the Karabakh issue in the nation's

Asbed (00:12:18):

identity and constitution.

Asbed (00:12:21):

This year, however, there were no parades or visits to Yerablur.

Asbed (00:12:24):

Instead, the civil contract government completely ignored the tragic history that they are

Asbed (00:12:28):

responsible for,

Asbed (00:12:29):

and public attention was dominated by the party's seventh Congress,

Asbed (00:12:33):

which happened,

Asbed (00:12:34):

of course,

Asbed (00:12:35):

two days ago,

Asbed (00:12:36):

September 20th,

Asbed (00:12:37):

and was deliberately timed to proceed and coincide with the Independence Day,

Asbed (00:12:41):

underscoring Nikol Pashinyan's urge for a new political narrative in the country.

Asbed (00:12:47):

In this Congress, they adopted their 2026 election platform.

Asbed (00:12:51):

They declared the establishment of what you just said, the Fourth Republic, as their task ahead.

Asbed (00:12:56):

And to execute that,

Asbed (00:12:58):

they plan to win the 2026 elections,

Asbed (00:13:01):

run a referendum for a new constitution based on the 1991 Alma-Ata declarations,

Asbed (00:13:07):

intensify EU accession,

Asbed (00:13:09):

and base the country on peace,

Asbed (00:13:11):

good neighborliness,

Asbed (00:13:12):

democracy,

Asbed (00:13:13):

education,

Asbed (00:13:14):

crossroads of peace,

Asbed (00:13:16):

other pablum.

Asbed (00:13:17):

What do you think about this talk of a fourth republic?

Asbed (00:13:20):

Is the third republic finished?

Arthur (00:13:22):

Well, I don't think we've had, we're using the term republic, but

Arthur (00:13:28):

Have we had republic at any point in recent history?

Arthur (00:13:33):

That's open to debating,

Arthur (00:13:37):

obviously,

Arthur (00:13:38):

because a republic presupposes separation of powers,

Arthur (00:13:43):

checks and balances,

Arthur (00:13:45):

and most importantly,

Arthur (00:13:46):

independent judicial.

Arthur (00:13:48):

Does Armenia have that now?

Arthur (00:13:50):

Of course it doesn't. It hasn't had it.

Arthur (00:13:51):

I mean,

Arthur (00:13:52):

we can see how all these politically motivated decisions,

Arthur (00:13:57):

of course,

Arthur (00:13:58):

to put people in prison,

Arthur (00:14:01):

even though there is no verdict yet,

Arthur (00:14:03):

they are punished already.

Arthur (00:14:09):

Because as if they were, you know, they committed such heinous crimes,

Arthur (00:14:15):

that they only can be kept in prison before the verdict even.

Arthur (00:14:20):

And there are numerous episodes that support this argument.

Arthur (00:14:27):

I mean,

Arthur (00:14:28):

if the prime minister,

Arthur (00:14:29):

the executive branch,

Arthur (00:14:31):

can release from his duties the chairman of the Supreme Judicial Institution just

Arthur (00:14:41):

by sending an SMS,

Arthur (00:14:43):

What kind of independence we're talking here about the republic?

Arthur (00:14:48):

So it hasn't been a full-blown republic, but it is not a republic now, definitely.

Arthur (00:14:53):

So they can call it whatever they want,

Arthur (00:14:54):

but even the logic,

Arthur (00:14:56):

I mean, if Armenia,

Arthur (00:14:58):

let's assume,

Arthur (00:14:59):

were a full-blown republic with all the necessary ingredients in place,

Arthur (00:15:05):

all the elements working like Swiss watch,

Arthur (00:15:08):

even then I'd say it's not possible to do that.

Arthur (00:15:11):

You have the same constitution.

Arthur (00:15:14):

You have the same arrangement that in the third political arrangement that in the

Arthur (00:15:19):

third republic,

Arthur (00:15:21):

but you somehow decided that I want to start it from scratch and I'm calling this

Arthur (00:15:27):

fourth republic.

Arthur (00:15:28):

Can you tell me if there are not 10

Arthur (00:15:32):

Three differences that allow this kind of a shift.

Arthur (00:15:35):

Yes.

Arthur (00:15:36):

Exactly.

Asbed (00:15:36):

I'm actually looking for the reasons why there's a need to break off with the narrative.

Arthur (00:15:41):

I'm getting that.

Arthur (00:15:43):

France has it's the Fifth Republic, right?

Arthur (00:15:46):

The Fifth French Republic.

Arthur (00:15:47):

Now, I mean,

Arthur (00:15:48):

I'm not going to go into the history,

Arthur (00:15:49):

but each time that number has changed,

Arthur (00:15:52):

it has changed because the nature of the regime has changed.

Arthur (00:15:56):

It was the case in,

Arthur (00:15:59):

obviously,

Arthur (00:16:00):

46,

Arthur (00:16:02):

when the war was over and they had new elections and established a parliamentary

Arthur (00:16:07):

republic.

Arthur (00:16:08):

It was a crisis in Algiers, and they brought back de Gaulle in 1958.

Arthur (00:16:14):

He declared this Fifth Republic, which exists through the day.

Arthur (00:16:19):

But each time there was a significant change either in the constitutional

Arthur (00:16:24):

arrangement or even entirely regime change,

Arthur (00:16:26):

as in 1946.

Arthur (00:16:27):

So what has changed here?

Arthur (00:16:30):

And if you ask Pashinyan, he would say one important thing has changed.

Arthur (00:16:34):

Now we live in peace.

Arthur (00:16:35):

But what are the assurances that you're going to have peace?

Arthur (00:16:40):

There are two.

Arthur (00:16:41):

One is this pre-signed agreement, which in terms of international law is nothing, right?

Arthur (00:16:49):

Right.

Arthur (00:16:50):

You haven't even signed or ratified a treaty or agreement yet.

Arthur (00:16:54):

You have just...

Arthur (00:16:55):

a memo of intentions or understanding or whatever you want to call it,

Arthur (00:17:00):

which is not a binding document in anyone.

Arthur (00:17:03):

But number two is Trump has witnessed it.

Arthur (00:17:06):

And Trump's reputation is online, and that's why it's peace now.

Arthur (00:17:12):

He can talk as much as he wants about it,

Arthur (00:17:14):

but I think Qataris may have a slightly different view on what Trump's word and

Arthur (00:17:22):

strategic partnership means when Israel has its interests to take care of.

Arthur (00:17:29):

Why I'm saying that? I'm saying that because you cannot guarantee 100% just because President Trump has

Arthur (00:17:38):

vowed that there's going to be peace now.

Arthur (00:17:41):

Peace is not a piece of paper,

Arthur (00:17:44):

and peace is not just words of this political leader or that political leader.

Arthur (00:17:50):

It requires a completely different set of arrangements so that we can see and we

Arthur (00:17:55):

can say this is peace now.

Arthur (00:17:57):

We don't have that.

Arthur (00:17:58):

We don't have any of that.

Arthur (00:18:00):

And he's saying gradually we're going to go there.

Arthur (00:18:02):

But Azerbaijan, neither Azerbaijan nor Turkey, by the way, have—

Arthur (00:18:08):

Turkey is not opening the borders, although seemingly it says peace, right?

Asbed (00:18:13):

Well, they talk about it, yeah.

Arthur (00:18:15):

Yeah, they talk about it, but they've been talking about it for a long time.

Arthur (00:18:20):

For Turkey, it's simply a leverage to get more concessions from this government.

Arthur (00:18:27):

For Azerbaijan,

Arthur (00:18:28):

though, their state anti-Armenian propaganda continues as if nothing has changed.

Arthur (00:18:37):

How can you then claim that these people are ready for peace the way you and I

Arthur (00:18:43):

probably understand peace,

Arthur (00:18:45):

right? When there is no animosity,

Arthur (00:18:48):

military hostilities are almost ruled out,

Arthur (00:18:51):

just like between France and Germany now.

Arthur (00:18:57):

I mean, it's inconceivable even to think in those terms.

Arthur (00:19:01):

Here, we are not there.

Arthur (00:19:02):

And we're not going to be there for a long time because the regimes,

Arthur (00:19:07):

both in Ankara and in Baku,

Arthur (00:19:10):

have a very different plan for Armenia,

Arthur (00:19:13):

and they do not hide that plan.

Asbed (00:19:15):

All of the countries surrounding Armenia are raising their defense spending while

Asbed (00:19:20):

Pashinyan is dropping defense spending and basically disarming Armenia.

Asbed (00:19:24):

So we're going in very different directions as far as security goes.

Asbed (00:19:28):

But one of the linchpins in Pashinyan's idea for a fourth republic

Asbed (00:19:32):

And the key Azerbaijani demand actually for signing a so-called peace treaty is the

Asbed (00:19:39):

reference in the Armenian constitution of the Armenian Declaration of Independence.

Asbed (00:19:44):

Now, notably Pashinyan's declaration states that a new constitutional referendum will be

Asbed (00:19:49):

held after the elections next year in 2026.

Asbed (00:19:53):

Previously,

Asbed (00:19:54):

there were speculations that they would be held on the same day to assure some kind

Asbed (00:19:57):

of a quorum.

Asbed (00:19:58):

for the referendum.

Asbed (00:20:00):

How realistic are Pashinyan's chances to get reelected and then also adopt a new

Asbed (00:20:04):

constitution under at least today's circumstances?

Arthur (00:20:08):

Well, politics is art of possible.

Arthur (00:20:12):

Possible he's going to be reelected?

Arthur (00:20:15):

Yes, I'd say there are three scenarios.

Arthur (00:20:19):

Scenario number one, his political party doesn't gain enough votes to go over the threshold.

Arthur (00:20:29):

They don't get 7%, they're not in the parliament.

Arthur (00:20:35):

Possible, but very unlikely.

Arthur (00:20:39):

Scenario number two, they get to the parliament,

Arthur (00:20:43):

But they do not have enough,

Arthur (00:20:44):

even with the coalition they formed,

Arthur (00:20:46):

to have majority,

Arthur (00:20:48):

and therefore he's not prime minister anymore.

Arthur (00:20:51):

Possible, possible, and probable, more probable than the previous one.

Arthur (00:20:57):

And the third scenario is he replicates 2021.

Arthur (00:21:03):

He keeps the opposition fragmented, inundates that with his pocket opposition parties.

Asbed (00:21:12):

Micro and fake oppositions.

Arthur (00:21:14):

Right.

Arthur (00:21:15):

And his pocket opposition parties,

Arthur (00:21:18):

Babajanyans,

Arthur (00:21:19):

Khosmalians,

Arthur (00:21:20):

and the list is...

Arthur (00:21:22):

So once the field is fragmented,

Arthur (00:21:25):

and if they do everything possible to keep the turnout low,

Arthur (00:21:29):

they can replicate it.

Arthur (00:21:31):

It's possible.

Arthur (00:21:32):

But...

Arthur (00:21:33):

Right now,

Arthur (00:21:35):

I think the big question,

Arthur (00:21:37):

the 64,000 question is,

Arthur (00:21:40):

what is the opposition going to do?

Arthur (00:21:43):

And number two, are they going to be new leaders who will give enough confidence to voters?

Arthur (00:21:50):

Because when you look at the overall picture in Armenia,

Arthur (00:21:53):

and according to the recent surveys,

Arthur (00:21:56):

he has anywhere from 12 to 17 percent.

Arthur (00:22:00):

Well, some say 20, but I doubt that.

Arthur (00:22:02):

Even after August 8 and after Albania got its deal with Azerbaijan, it's still 17 percent.

Arthur (00:22:11):

Cambodia.

Arthur (00:22:14):

That's right.

Asbed (00:22:14):

It's now Cambodia.

Asbed (00:22:15):

It's not just Aberbaijan.

Arthur (00:22:18):

Right. It's 17%.

Arthur (00:22:19):

And if it's 17%, then, but does the opposition have more?

Arthur (00:22:25):

The opposition has about 20% from the other end.

Arthur (00:22:29):

What happens then to 60%?

Arthur (00:22:32):

These are the undecided voters.

Arthur (00:22:34):

These are the voters who,

Arthur (00:22:36):

if they do not show up on the election day,

Arthur (00:22:39):

or if they do not vote in a smart way,

Arthur (00:22:42):

not for the opposition parties that are pocket Pashinyan opposition parties,

Arthur (00:22:47):

But if they have a smart strategy,

Arthur (00:22:50):

they can certainly get to scenario two,

Arthur (00:22:54):

which then will be the most likely scenario.

Arthur (00:22:57):

But if they do nothing,

Arthur (00:22:59):

and I don't see anything done seven months before the elections,

Arthur (00:23:03):

I mean, maybe they are still thinking,

Arthur (00:23:05):

strategizing and whatnot,

Arthur (00:23:07):

but that's not enough.

Arthur (00:23:09):

That's not enough.

Arthur (00:23:10):

You have to start working with that undecided segment, which is huge in Armenia, 60%.

Arthur (00:23:18):

And he's certainly targeting that 60% himself.

Asbed (00:23:23):

And Arthur,

Asbed (00:23:24):

we actually want to ask you more questions about the opposition,

Asbed (00:23:28):

what we call action or inaction,

Asbed (00:23:31):

as a matter of fact.

Asbed (00:23:32):

But one quick question before we finish with this Fourth Republic business,

Asbed (00:23:35):

because Pashinyan has made accession to the EU a fundamental tenet of his Fourth

Asbed (00:23:41):

Republic.

Asbed (00:23:42):

Does

Asbed (00:23:43):

I mean, everyone we have talked to has said that it's a very unlikely high risk at best

Asbed (00:23:50):

decades long process.

Asbed (00:23:51):

Does this mean that EU if EU accession fails for Armenia, the Fourth Republic will fail?

Arthur (00:23:58):

Well, it means that he's giving fake promises and pie-in-the-sky type things,

Arthur (00:24:07):

and that's not the first time he's doing that.

Arthur (00:24:10):

There is an even more serious question.

Arthur (00:24:12):

Why do people believe in anything that he says?

Arthur (00:24:16):

why there are people that still,

Arthur (00:24:18):

after all these lies,

Arthur (00:24:21):

after all the manipulations that were kind of,

Arthur (00:24:25):

not that it was not dissected by the opposition and others,

Arthur (00:24:30):

everybody can see that it was

Arthur (00:24:33):

a false promise a lie and even uh worse than that i mean he was just making 180

Arthur (00:24:40):

turns kind of face about just uh within a month or so right he can't say one thing

Arthur (00:24:47):

and then say the opposite he knows he's been getting away with that and he is

Arthur (00:24:52):

confident that he will get away he will say that in four years that

Arthur (00:24:56):

What do you want?

Arthur (00:24:57):

That was our goal.

Arthur (00:24:58):

We were honest. We did everything we could.

Arthur (00:25:00):

But European Union,

Arthur (00:25:02):

and you always will find the ones who should be held guilty for not doing something

Arthur (00:25:07):

or not delivering something.

Arthur (00:25:09):

So nothing new here.

Arthur (00:25:11):

As to European Union,

Arthur (00:25:12):

we don't even know if European Union is going to be able to exist in its current

Arthur (00:25:19):

shape and form within the next 20 years.

Arthur (00:25:23):

to say nothing of accepting new members.

Arthur (00:25:29):

And I think it's complete lunacy to build foreign policy on a notion that you want

Arthur (00:25:36):

to be in a particular club,

Arthur (00:25:39):

right? If that club does not allow you to get through the door, if that club doesn't see you in,

Arthur (00:25:48):

You have to do so many things so that they can allow you to have a stool at the bar at best.

Asbed (00:25:57):

So maybe we should just dream about the Fifth Republic one day.

Arthur (00:26:01):

No, it's a lunacy.

Arthur (00:26:03):

And I think to a certain extent,

Arthur (00:26:06):

Georgians have,

Arthur (00:26:07):

well, I mean, their current leadership anyway,

Arthur (00:26:10):

they have understood that it's not the right thing to do.

Arthur (00:26:15):

Because if you are doing that in the current world,

Arthur (00:26:19):

then you will have to align with a particular camp without getting anything from

Arthur (00:26:24):

them,

Arthur (00:26:25):

but them expecting you to do whatever they insist on.

Arthur (00:26:29):

And that may go against your interests.

Arthur (00:26:31):

Why do that?

Arthur (00:26:33):

If European Union tomorrow says that we want you to declare sanctions against

Arthur (00:26:39):

China,

Arthur (00:26:40):

will Armenian government do that?

Arthur (00:26:42):

Is it in our interests?

Arthur (00:26:45):

Do we want China as a country that kind of has us blacklisted?

Arthur (00:26:52):

Of course not.

Asbed (00:26:53):

Yeah, Georgia has understood these questions.

Arthur (00:26:55):

Well, yes.

Arthur (00:26:56):

I mean, that's what I'm saying.

Arthur (00:26:58):

It's sheer lunacy.

Arthur (00:27:02):

And we are already in one of the camps.

Arthur (00:27:06):

It's not like, I mean, we are not.

Arthur (00:27:08):

And in that camp, over years, we have developed a number.

Arthur (00:27:12):

I'm not saying it's good, bad.

Arthur (00:27:14):

I'm just saying for fact,

Arthur (00:27:16):

we have developed so many interdependencies,

Arthur (00:27:20):

dependencies and sensitivities that shifting immediately from one camp to another

Arthur (00:27:26):

is going to be a total disaster on all levels.

Arthur (00:27:30):

So maybe he is daydreaming that something will happen to Russia, this will collapse, and then...

Arthur (00:27:37):

And we will get much stronger, and then we will be making our bid to be part of Europe.

Arthur (00:27:43):

I don't know.

Arthur (00:27:44):

I mean, but that's not, if you ask me, not realistic foreign policy design.

Arthur (00:27:53):

A realistic foreign policy design does not pin your ability to satisfy and meet

Arthur (00:27:58):

your interests on something that may or may not happen in future.

Arthur (00:28:04):

But today, I already need to make commitments without knowing if that's happening or not.

Hovik (00:28:09):

So,

Hovik (00:28:10):

Arthur, going back to the opposition,

Hovik (00:28:12):

for the uninitiated Armenian opposition,

Hovik (00:28:15):

this is completely nonsensical,

Hovik (00:28:18):

but the opposition remains divided,

Hovik (00:28:21):

as you said before.

Hovik (00:28:23):

And, in fact, it seems largely docile and, at best, reactionary.

Hovik (00:28:28):

The parliamentary and the division is along the lines of the two major factions.

Hovik (00:28:34):

So, the Haia-Stan faction seeking to focus and prioritize the 2026 elections,

Hovik (00:28:40):

while the Bati-Vunem faction,

Hovik (00:28:41):

which is a minor opposition party in parliament,

Hovik (00:28:45):

is pushing for a vote of no confidence,

Hovik (00:28:48):

what is also referred to as impeachment,

Hovik (00:28:51):

which would require massive street mobilization to put pressure on the civil

Hovik (00:28:56):

contract MPs to defect.

Hovik (00:28:57):

Because if you just add up the number of mandates between the two parties,

Hovik (00:29:03):

the two factions,

Hovik (00:29:05):

you don't even have enough to...

Hovik (00:29:07):

initiate the process of no confidence so a lot of unanswered questions why is the

Hovik (00:29:15):

situation as i described why and what is needed to change it you talked about a

Hovik (00:29:20):

third party maybe you can talk about that as well help us make sense out of this

Arthur (00:29:25):

Well, there's certainly fatigue among certain segments of voters with the past presidents.

Arthur (00:29:34):

No matter what they say,

Arthur (00:29:36):

we can see from the surveys that that residual distrust of both Serge Sarkisian and

Arthur (00:29:45):

Kocharyan is palpable.

Arthur (00:29:48):

Why they cannot decide on common strategy and common...

Arthur (00:29:55):

I do not know.

Arthur (00:29:56):

I'm not private to the internal dealings,

Arthur (00:29:59):

but it looks to me as if it were a clash of personalities rather than big

Arthur (00:30:09):

disagreements on strategy or goal.

Arthur (00:30:12):

The goal is the same.

Arthur (00:30:14):

But as far as I understand, Kocharyan's party, let me use it that way rather than

Arthur (00:30:23):

their names.

Arthur (00:30:25):

It's easier for the audience, I understand, to understand.

Arthur (00:30:28):

So Kocharyan's party says that it might be,

Arthur (00:30:32):

that strategy of impeachment may be very,

Arthur (00:30:34):

very risky because if it's again going to be a false start,

Arthur (00:30:39):

if again they're not going to be able to mobilize enough people,

Arthur (00:30:43):

it's going to create a new cycle of apathy which will be very dangerous for the,

Arthur (00:30:49):

before elections.

Arthur (00:30:51):

So people simply will not show up on the voting day.

Arthur (00:30:56):

That's their argument.

Arthur (00:30:58):

I mean, makes sense?

Arthur (00:31:00):

Probably.

Arthur (00:31:01):

It's risky.

Arthur (00:31:02):

Indeed, it's risky.

Arthur (00:31:03):

The other side,

Arthur (00:31:04):

Serge Sargsyan's,

Arthur (00:31:05):

although they would probably hate to be called Serge Sargsyan's party,

Arthur (00:31:10):

but I'm calling Serge Sargsyan's camp.

Arthur (00:31:11):

Okay.

Arthur (00:31:12):

They're saying that impeachment is possible.

Arthur (00:31:16):

We can get some of the members of the civil contract,

Arthur (00:31:22):

and therefore,

Arthur (00:31:23):

if you join us,

Arthur (00:31:25):

we're going to get it.

Arthur (00:31:27):

I don't know.

Arthur (00:31:28):

Again, I do not know their internal kitchen,

Arthur (00:31:33):

political kitchen,

Arthur (00:31:35):

but I doubt that the civil contract has any members who can really decide to jump

Arthur (00:31:43):

from the bandwagon.

Hovik (00:31:44):

I mean, they all have golden handcuffs, it seems, in terms of homeowners.

Arthur (00:31:49):

Well, look, they have benefited immensely from this.

Arthur (00:31:54):

Oh, yeah. Who were they before 2018?

Arthur (00:31:56):

I mean, they could not even dream of what they've gotten, where they've gotten.

Arthur (00:32:02):

English tutors and bartenders.

Arthur (00:32:04):

Lose everything.

Arthur (00:32:06):

Lose everything.

Arthur (00:32:08):

Maybe there are.

Arthur (00:32:09):

I mean, I don't want to exaggerate this.

Arthur (00:32:12):

I simply do not know.

Arthur (00:32:13):

I cannot be talking about each individual 69 members of that faction,

Arthur (00:32:19):

what they think and what they do.

Arthur (00:32:20):

But we saw when there was two defected recently, right?

Arthur (00:32:25):

Two defected recently, and we saw how messy that process was.

Arthur (00:32:31):

And it's still not over.

Arthur (00:32:33):

So I do not know who's right,

Arthur (00:32:34):

who's wrong in this debate between the two camps that are represented in the

Arthur (00:32:39):

parliament. But for me, the opposition is not just those who are presented in the government.

Arthur (00:32:44):

in the parliament.

Arthur (00:32:46):

I think here the opposition for me is much broader.

Arthur (00:32:50):

The opposition today is anybody who disagrees with the concept of the fourth

Arthur (00:32:57):

republic,

Arthur (00:32:58):

which is based on that very simple logic

Arthur (00:33:05):

We give everything that Turks and Azeris demand,

Arthur (00:33:08):

they give us peace for that,

Arthur (00:33:10):

and that will allow us to develop.

Arthur (00:33:12):

All right, if you're ready to

Arthur (00:33:15):

Give up on genocide recognition.

Arthur (00:33:19):

You have already given up on Artsakh.

Arthur (00:33:21):

If you are ready to give up territories,

Arthur (00:33:24):

more territories,

Arthur (00:33:25):

if you are ready to change your identity just to please them,

Arthur (00:33:29):

don't look at Ararat in the mornings.

Arthur (00:33:32):

I have a view from my window.

Arthur (00:33:34):

How dare you?

Asbed (00:33:35):

Should we report you to the NSS?

Asbed (00:33:37):

You may have to block your window.

Arthur (00:33:39):

Yes, I need special blinders that can be operated from the Armenian security service.

Arthur (00:33:46):

Okay.

Arthur (00:33:49):

Yeah, this is a theater of absurd, obviously.

Arthur (00:33:53):

I mean, when you think what he's doing.

Arthur (00:33:55):

But this is a project.

Arthur (00:33:56):

I call it social engineering project.

Arthur (00:33:59):

And he's probably been inspired by the likes of Ataturk and others.

Arthur (00:34:03):

Okay.

Arthur (00:34:05):

This population is malleable.

Arthur (00:34:07):

We want to,

Arthur (00:34:08):

I mean,

Arthur (00:34:09):

people who are old enough,

Arthur (00:34:11):

my generation,

Arthur (00:34:12):

and even their own generation,

Arthur (00:34:14):

is probably going to be difficult to change.

Arthur (00:34:18):

But they are after the young generation, the new generation.

Arthur (00:34:22):

They think that they can.

Arthur (00:34:24):

Make them,

Arthur (00:34:25):

shape them to accept the new identity,

Arthur (00:34:28):

new Armenian identity,

Arthur (00:34:30):

where history doesn't matter.

Arthur (00:34:33):

All that matters is material and consumer interests that you have.

Arthur (00:34:38):

And be entrepreneurial.

Arthur (00:34:40):

we're going to give you some conditions so that you can make money and nothing else

Arthur (00:34:46):

should be of interest to you.

Arthur (00:34:48):

That's their fourth republic.

Arthur (00:34:50):

And I think anybody who disagrees with that is and should be in opposition,

Arthur (00:34:55):

not just the political parties.

Arthur (00:34:58):

They have their own issues.

Arthur (00:35:00):

As I said, looks to me like it's personality of two leaders leading the two camps.

Arthur (00:35:07):

And I'm sure there will be probably new players.

Arthur (00:35:09):

I mean, it's still possible for some new players to emerge.

Hovik (00:35:14):

Yeah.

Hovik (00:35:15):

Let me just ask one last question.

Hovik (00:35:17):

Sure.

Hovik (00:35:18):

We talked about, we briefly mentioned some of Karapetyan.

Hovik (00:35:23):

We should mention that this government or this regime has gone out full force to silence

Hovik (00:35:33):

he's in jail right now on pre-trial detention for simply speaking something and the

Hovik (00:35:40):

government characterizes this as a attempt to overthrow the state and every single

Hovik (00:35:47):

ambassador every single western embassy who cry about free speech in Russia or

Hovik (00:35:54):

elsewhere

Hovik (00:35:55):

are silently watching, and I'm not sure what else they're doing.

Hovik (00:35:59):

But I'm sure they're happy that Pashinyan is keeping his opponents in control.

Hovik (00:36:06):

But one of the major things that happened was that his company,

Hovik (00:36:12):

one of the biggest companies in Armenia,

Hovik (00:36:15):

one of the biggest taxpayers,

Hovik (00:36:16):

Electric Networks of Armenia,

Hovik (00:36:17):

has been seized.

Hovik (00:36:20):

At least, you know, essentially he's being forced to continue to make contributions to the company,

Hovik (00:36:26):

to finance the company,

Hovik (00:36:27):

except that they fully manage it for him.

Hovik (00:36:31):

And they have replaced all the management with their cronies.

Hovik (00:36:34):

Now,

Hovik (00:36:39):

The issue is that the Stockholm Court of Arbitration recently ruled that the

Hovik (00:36:43):

seizure of assets for some of the Karapetyan was illegal.

Hovik (00:36:48):

But now the government is saying that they will be looking to hand off the company

Hovik (00:36:53):

to a new international operator.

Hovik (00:36:56):

Just very quickly, what are your thoughts about this whole Electric Networks of Armenia affair?

Hovik (00:37:01):

And do you think that there is any company, international operator, that is going to be

Hovik (00:37:06):

Crazy enough, let me just put it that way.

Hovik (00:37:08):

Maybe I'm leading you,

Hovik (00:37:09):

but is there any international operator who would be willing to take on electric

Hovik (00:37:14):

networks given the Armenian government's relationship to observing the rights of

Hovik (00:37:23):

private property?

Arthur (00:37:25):

Well,

Arthur (00:37:26):

I'm certainly not an expert in that industry to say if there are any players

Arthur (00:37:32):

internationally who'd be willing to do this,

Arthur (00:37:36):

knowing that there is a case in the,

Arthur (00:37:39):

even if there is no decision,

Arthur (00:37:41):

although there is already,

Arthur (00:37:43):

and they're waiting for the final decision,

Arthur (00:37:45):

but there is already a

Arthur (00:37:47):

the opinion of that court, right?

Arthur (00:37:50):

Anybody who knows that the case is at the court in Stockholm would find this very

Arthur (00:37:57):

risky proposition,

Arthur (00:37:59):

except some players who are ready to absorb political risk

Arthur (00:38:07):

and go after this because they have other interests or motives, right?

Arthur (00:38:13):

And I can only think about our neighbors willing to do that, to control it.

Arthur (00:38:18):

That's Turkey and Azerbaijan.

Arthur (00:38:20):

I doubt Georgia is interested in doing anything like that.

Arthur (00:38:24):

So potentially, maybe, but I cannot assert that because as I said, I'm not an expert.

Arthur (00:38:30):

What I can say,

Arthur (00:38:31):

though, on this whole case,

Arthur (00:38:35):

in terms of its political underpinnings and most importantly,

Arthur (00:38:43):

negotiations with potentially one of the third players,

Arthur (00:38:51):

right? I mean, neither Kocharyan nor Sargsyan, somebody who can

Arthur (00:38:55):

who can certainly garner.

Arthur (00:38:57):

I saw a survey that gave him almost equal rating with Pashinyan.

Arthur (00:39:06):

Are they negotiating with him as he is in prison?

Arthur (00:39:09):

I'm sure they're trying to persuade him that he needs to agree to give up on it.

Arthur (00:39:17):

I don't know how that's going to go.

Arthur (00:39:18):

And nobody knows.

Arthur (00:39:20):

My gut sense is that if they cannot solve this problem,

Arthur (00:39:25):

it's going to be not very easy for them to solve another important problem this

Arthur (00:39:31):

year or before elections.

Arthur (00:39:33):

And that is the promise of this AI revolution in Armenia,

Arthur (00:39:39):

because although I'm told that this supercomputer can be directly connected to get

Arthur (00:39:47):

power from the

Arthur (00:39:49):

Nuclear power plant.

Arthur (00:39:51):

Right.

Arthur (00:39:52):

There are still so many other issues.

Arthur (00:39:54):

And I'm not,

Arthur (00:39:55):

as I said,

Arthur (00:39:56):

I'm not an engineer to tell you what other issues will need to be regulated to make

Arthur (00:40:01):

that happen.

Hovik (00:40:02):

There was an interesting article in Oragark, which actually talks more in detail about this.

Hovik (00:40:07):

One of the reasons for taking down Samvel Karapetyan.

Hovik (00:40:11):

And I think it's a good, interesting argument, which is,

Hovik (00:40:15):

that they need this super, I mean, they call it an AI factory.

Hovik (00:40:20):

I mean, we're going to, this topic deserves its own show.

Hovik (00:40:24):

And we saw how far,

Hovik (00:40:25):

being both technologists,

Hovik (00:40:26):

have been hesitant to cover it,

Hovik (00:40:28):

but we'll cover it in more detail.

Arthur (00:40:30):

Yes, I'm not an expert on that, so I'm sorry.

Asbed (00:40:34):

But we've read that.

Asbed (00:40:36):

The data center would use 100 megawatts of power,

Asbed (00:40:39):

and that's a quarter of today's ANPP,

Asbed (00:40:42):

the nuclear power plant.

Asbed (00:40:43):

So that's a considerable amount of power that, you know, you can't make this happen easily.

Asbed (00:40:49):

All right, I'm going to wrap up here for our topics because of time.

Asbed (00:40:52):

Let me ask each of you if you have something,

Asbed (00:40:55):

a thought that you would like to share with our listeners.

Arthur (00:40:58):

Arthur?

Arthur (00:40:59):

No, I think that we are already into...

Arthur (00:41:04):

pre-election.

Arthur (00:41:05):

The election campaign hasn't started in full yet,

Arthur (00:41:08):

but Pashinyan and his party are certainly already running the campaign.

Arthur (00:41:17):

Because what is this Fourth Republic other than a bid for

Arthur (00:41:25):

to be reelected, right?

Arthur (00:41:26):

It's kind of,

Arthur (00:41:27):

I'm presenting you not the entire program,

Arthur (00:41:30):

but the most important pieces are there.

Arthur (00:41:33):

And the most, I think,

Arthur (00:41:34):

venomous part of this is he's talking about mothers of Armenia who really want

Arthur (00:41:41):

peace.

Arthur (00:41:42):

and how in this new Armenia,

Arthur (00:41:45):

in the Fourth Republic,

Arthur (00:41:46):

we are not going to need a strong army because we do not see any of our neighbors

Arthur (00:41:52):

as enemies,

Arthur (00:41:54):

and therefore no strong army will be necessary.

Arthur (00:41:57):

I don't know if,

Arthur (00:41:58):

again,

Arthur (00:41:59):

it's going to be reelected,

Arthur (00:42:00):

if they're going to continue,

Arthur (00:42:02):

but I can certainly say that

Arthur (00:42:05):

Because we live in such a fast changing world,

Arthur (00:42:10):

things may change so fast that his idea based on just the promise of Trump and a

Arthur (00:42:17):

piece of paper is not going to be enough to protect this nation from further

Arthur (00:42:25):

territorial losses.

Arthur (00:42:27):

So that's a thought that I would like to leave with every Armenian thinking about

Arthur (00:42:33):

what's going on in the country right now.

Asbed (00:42:35):

Okay.

Asbed (00:42:37):

Hovik, what's on your mind?

Hovik (00:42:38):

I've been thinking a lot about Artsakh over the last week.

Hovik (00:42:44):

And what really struck me was, of course, the pictures, not just of the exodus,

Hovik (00:42:52):

but the pictures of the representatives from a defeated Artsakh being forced to

Hovik (00:43:01):

appear in Yevlakh for talks on capitulation.

Hovik (00:43:05):

That meeting that Azerbaijan forced the Armenians to attend was designed to happen

Hovik (00:43:10):

on September 21st on Armenian Independence Day.

Hovik (00:43:12):

Aliyev really likes his dates.

Hovik (00:43:15):

And two years later, September 21st, 2025,

Hovik (00:43:20):

one of the top security officials in armenia the head of the nss andranik simonyan

Hovik (00:43:26):

is in Baku for a three-day visit it's being couched in terms of you know

Hovik (00:43:31):

international security conference but it's just like a Azerbaijani... it's just a

Hovik (00:43:35):

security forum some kind of a security forum run by Baku but one cannot... to me

Hovik (00:43:41):

this was an interesting parallel when um you know exactly two years on the same day

Hovik (00:43:48):

the head of the NSS

Hovik (00:43:51):

is I would say forced or maybe he's willing to do this the bidding but he's in Baku

Hovik (00:43:58):

there are various speculations about why he's there but i cannot attest to any of

Hovik (00:44:05):

them but this is you know just just the parallels of the dates was interesting for

Hovik (00:44:10):

me to to make note of

Asbed (00:44:12):

Okay.

Asbed (00:44:13):

Thank you both.

Asbed (00:44:14):

And Arthur, thank you very much for joining us today.

Asbed (00:44:16):

We appreciate your time and your insight.

Arthur (00:44:18):

Take care.

Arthur (00:44:19):

Take care.

Asbed (00:44:20):

That was our Week in Review recorded on September 22, 2025.

Asbed (00:44:25):

We've been talking with Arthur G. Mardirossian, who is a senior consultant with CM Partners.

Asbed (00:44:32):

In 1994,

Asbed (00:44:33):

after graduating from Yale University,

Asbed (00:44:34):

he joined Conflict Management Group and Harvard Negotiations Project and has since

Asbed (00:44:39):

worked on conflicts in the former Soviet Union,

Asbed (00:44:41):

the Middle East,

Asbed (00:44:42):

the Balkans,

Asbed (00:44:43):

Africa,

Asbed (00:44:44):

and Latin America.

Asbed (00:44:45):

For more information, you can look us up on podcasts.groong.org / episode-number.

Hovik (00:44:51):

All right.

Asbed (00:44:51):

I'm Hovik Manucharyan in Glendale, California.

Asbed (00:44:54):

And I'm Asbed Bedrossian, also in Glendale.

Asbed (00:44:57):

Thanks for listening.

Asbed (00:44:58):

We'll talk to you next week.

Asbed (00:45:00):

Have an excellent week.

People on this episode

Head Shot

Asbed Bedrossian

Co-host
Head Shot

Hovik Manucharyan

Co-host
Head Shot

Arthur G Martirosyan

Guest

Podcasts we love

Check out these other fine podcasts recommended by us, not an algorithm.