Armenian News Network - Groong: Week In Review Podcast

Dziunik Aghajanian - Ukraine, Israel-Gaza, Armenian Government Repressions | Ep 479, Oct 19, 2025

• Armenian News Network / Groong • Episode 479

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Groong Week in Review - October 19, 2025

Topics

  • Ukraine War, Trump - Putin Upcoming Summit
  • Israel-Gaza “Cease Fire”
  • Armenian Government Repressions Accelerate


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Episode 479 | Recorded: October 20, 2025

https://podcasts.groong.org/479


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Hovik (00:00:04):

Hello and welcome to the Armenian News Network Groong Week in Review for the week

Hovik (00:00:10):

ending in October 19,

Hovik (00:00:12):

2025.

Hovik (00:00:13):

Today, we're talking with Ambassador Dziunik Aghajanian,

Hovik (00:00:16):

a diplomat,

Hovik (00:00:17):

a former ambassador of Armenia to many countries,

Hovik (00:00:21):

and today she's going to be our guest.

Asbed (00:00:23):

Hovik,

Asbed (00:00:24):

before you go on,

Asbed (00:00:25):

let me be the person this time interrupting and talking to our listeners.

Asbed (00:00:30):

Thank you for following us.

Asbed (00:00:32):

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Asbed (00:00:37):

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Asbed (00:00:38):

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Asbed (00:00:41):

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Asbed (00:01:14):

Thank you, everyone.

Asbed (00:01:15):

And on with the show.

Hovik (00:01:17):

Welcome back to Groom.

Dziunik (00:01:19):

Thank you.

Dziunik (00:01:20):

Thank you, guys.

Asbed (00:01:21):

Great to have you on board.

Asbed (00:01:23):

Ambassador,

Asbed (00:01:24):

Armenians always have one eye on the war in Ukraine because we expect once it

Asbed (00:01:29):

resolves,

Asbed (00:01:30):

Russia's posture towards the South Caucasus will change,

Asbed (00:01:32):

so life for Armenia will start evolving as well.

Asbed (00:01:36):

There's been a lot of talk about Trump approving the sending of Tomahawk

Asbed (00:01:40):

nuclear-capable missiles to Zelensky,

Asbed (00:01:43):

who was in DC this past week.

Asbed (00:01:45):

Trump seems to be either flip-flopping on the issue or the issue is not about that.

Asbed (00:01:50):

It's actually about negotiating some kind of a price with Putin for not sending the

Asbed (00:01:55):

missiles to Ukraine.

Asbed (00:01:56):

So is the Tomahawk issue a real issue or is it another bargaining chip for Trump?

Dziunik (00:02:01):

Well, I think Trump approached politics the same way as he approached his business projects.

Dziunik (00:02:11):

And that's the right word to use with him because

Dziunik (00:02:15):

It's never an agreement,

Dziunik (00:02:16):

it's never a final compromise decision on sides that are part of a conflict or a

Dziunik (00:02:27):

situation.

Dziunik (00:02:28):

He is trying to make a deal.

Dziunik (00:02:30):

And part of his deal is to start showing some kind of a force

Dziunik (00:02:37):

and then bring it down a little bit, kind of opening up doors for negotiation.

Dziunik (00:02:43):

I think this is his tactics.

Dziunik (00:02:45):

He has been using it since he has come to power,

Dziunik (00:02:50):

and we have seen multiple demonstrations of this particular position.

Dziunik (00:02:56):

Tomahawks could be positioned,

Dziunik (00:03:00):

but the same way as the Abrahams,

Dziunik (00:03:05):

the tanks were passed to Ukraine,

Dziunik (00:03:09):

we will see more like one or two being passed as a

Dziunik (00:03:16):

symbol of their participation,

Dziunik (00:03:19):

whereas the main rockets will be transferred from his allies in different parts of

Dziunik (00:03:26):

the world that are holding these rockets.

Dziunik (00:03:30):

But right now, it's not going to happen.

Dziunik (00:03:32):

But I think

Dziunik (00:03:34):

that Putin has explained in very vivid terms,

Dziunik (00:03:39):

I would use this word,

Dziunik (00:03:41):

that any move towards passing tomahawks to Ukraine,

Dziunik (00:03:46):

be it from the US side,

Dziunik (00:03:48):

be it from his allies side,

Dziunik (00:03:51):

will be perceived from the Russian side as direct participation of the US in the

Dziunik (00:03:58):

Ukrainian war,

Dziunik (00:04:00):

actually turning the Ukrainian war into a Trump war,

Dziunik (00:04:05):

not being perceived as a past administration endeavor.

Dziunik (00:04:10):

And also,

Dziunik (00:04:11):

it would mean changing the whole dimension of the conflict,

Dziunik (00:04:16):

making all NATO parts that will be used for the launch of Tomahawk as direct

Dziunik (00:04:24):

targets for the

Dziunik (00:04:26):

responsive actions from the Russian side.

Dziunik (00:04:29):

And I think this is something that has put Trump a bit at an awkward.

Dziunik (00:04:36):

I think what he is hearing from his members of administration or different parts of

Dziunik (00:04:43):

this administration is that simply acting as a

Dziunik (00:04:48):

teller in the story would mean coursing Russia into some kind of an unacceptable

Dziunik (00:04:56):

deal that actually Russia will never go for that and will never go because Russia

Dziunik (00:05:02):

has given 20 years of

Dziunik (00:05:05):

a corridor for any kind of agreement with the Western powers explaining that this

Dziunik (00:05:13):

action and that action are not acceptable,

Dziunik (00:05:16):

that those actions are endangering the security of Russia and they are not actually

Dziunik (00:05:23):

either part of democratic action or any kind of a partnership

Dziunik (00:05:32):

behavior.

Dziunik (00:05:34):

And they have seen that the West was acting as if there was no Russia to take into

Dziunik (00:05:41):

consideration.

Dziunik (00:05:42):

And the only participant in the game is the West and their wishes to gain power and

Dziunik (00:05:49):

gain an upper hand in the resources of Russia and the neighboring countries.

Dziunik (00:05:55):

So this is something that Russia has already put aside as part of the

Dziunik (00:06:00):

past experience and they are not going to repeat it.

Dziunik (00:06:03):

It's not going to happen.

Dziunik (00:06:05):

So Tomahawk situation will might come back,

Dziunik (00:06:08):

but that would mean definitely that Trump is becoming part of the war and the war

Dziunik (00:06:15):

is turning into a Trump war.

Dziunik (00:06:17):

But I don't think that's going to happen now when he's playing the king,

Dziunik (00:06:21):

given the situation in Gaza or the or the theatrical performance we saw

Dziunik (00:06:27):

played out there about the Gaza situation.

Dziunik (00:06:33):

And I don't think he's going to do that right now when he actually he's stepping

Dziunik (00:06:38):

into an electoral period.

Asbed (00:06:40):

Regarding the comment that you made about Russia having given about 20 years of

Asbed (00:06:44):

opportunity for the West to understand how to achieve peace,

Asbed (00:06:48):

we were going to ask you if Russia's red lines have actually shifted at all over

Asbed (00:06:53):

the past year or so,

Asbed (00:06:55):

because we even heard from the Washington Post recently that Russia has proposed a

Asbed (00:07:00):

ceasefire in exchange for full control of Donbas and parts of Kherson and

Asbed (00:07:05):

Zaporozhye.

Asbed (00:07:06):

Do you think that these reports are credible and have...

Asbed (00:07:09):

Have the Russians shifted their red lines about Ukraine?

Dziunik (00:07:13):

No, Russians have not changed their red lines.

Dziunik (00:07:16):

And what Washington Post has given is only one part of the story.

Dziunik (00:07:22):

According to what I have heard from the Russian side and read about it,

Dziunik (00:07:27):

alongside with the ceasefire,

Dziunik (00:07:30):

uh it should be a neutral status for Ukraine demilitarization of the Ukrainian

Dziunik (00:07:37):

forces no actual presence of any nato or nato related country in the territory etc

Dziunik (00:07:43):

etc etc so this is there they are just speaking about one part which is the

Dziunik (00:07:50):

territories acceptance of those territories being part of russia and russia is not

Dziunik (00:07:55):

actually,

Dziunik (00:07:56):

yes,

Dziunik (00:07:57):

it would be nice to hear from them that they are accepting Gazette as part of

Dziunik (00:08:01):

Russia, but constitutionally,

Dziunik (00:08:03):

they are part of Russia.

Dziunik (00:08:04):

So take it or leave it.

Dziunik (00:08:06):

This is the situation.

Dziunik (00:08:09):

And I think this is just, as usual, Washington Post is giving only the part that they want to

Dziunik (00:08:15):

highlight for the audience,

Dziunik (00:08:18):

whereas leaving the most important part out,

Dziunik (00:08:22):

which are hurting the European stance especially.

Dziunik (00:08:25):

And I think behind the European stance is the American stance,

Dziunik (00:08:29):

which still wants to keep Ukraine as part of a military playground for future

Dziunik (00:08:36):

operations.

Asbed (00:08:37):

So after three and a half years, why isn't Putin finished with Ukraine?

Asbed (00:08:42):

Why haven't we seen the end of this conflict?

Dziunik (00:08:45):

Because we have to perceive this conflict as not only a military one,

Dziunik (00:08:51):

but also as a psychological and economic one,

Dziunik (00:08:54):

and also as a geopolitical one.

Dziunik (00:08:58):

So let me explain it.

Dziunik (00:09:00):

Psychologically,

Dziunik (00:09:01):

I think both the Russian society and the Western societies are going through

Dziunik (00:09:09):

transformation periods.

Dziunik (00:09:11):

Just go back to 22 and you will remember this enormous anti-Russian rhetoric, people marching

Dziunik (00:09:21):

under the banners of no Russian and cancellation of any Russian, et cetera, et cetera.

Dziunik (00:09:26):

And they were thinking that if they just strike Russia in just several months.

Dziunik (00:09:34):

So this transformation has taken place and the European and the Western societies

Dziunik (00:09:40):

have understood that this was simply a neo-colonial game being played by hegemonic

Dziunik (00:09:46):

powers and those standing in this line.

Dziunik (00:09:49):

that were trying to actually use the resources,

Dziunik (00:09:56):

the Russian resources,

Dziunik (00:10:00):

in a manner that would simply destroy the country,

Dziunik (00:10:03):

not as equal partners or as business partners,

Dziunik (00:10:07):

but simply exploiting the country and its resources.

Dziunik (00:10:12):

So this transformation has taken place in the European or in the Western

Dziunik (00:10:19):

hemisphere, a Western part of the political world.

Dziunik (00:10:24):

Also, the West as such has lost both the political weight and the military weight.

Dziunik (00:10:33):

We have seen the military resources of the West actually being grinded

Dziunik (00:10:41):

in the Ukrainian war,

Dziunik (00:10:44):

and it has shown that the blown up image of this Western weaponry does not

Dziunik (00:10:55):

correspond to the reality.

Dziunik (00:10:58):

The Russian society went through a transformation of total belief towards Western

Dziunik (00:11:05):

values into total disbelief towards these values and the understanding that these

Dziunik (00:11:13):

were only tools in the hands of the Western countries trying to

Dziunik (00:11:20):

mingle in the internal affairs of the country with the ultimate purpose of actually

Dziunik (00:11:28):

destroying it. So if we go into economic, we will see the same transformation.

Dziunik (00:11:33):

If we go into geopolitical and military transformation,

Dziunik (00:11:38):

we will see that Russia has totally changed the military industry and the defense

Dziunik (00:11:45):

industry and the production in the country and has put forward

Dziunik (00:11:51):

and the projects that have been sitting,

Dziunik (00:11:54):

actually,

Dziunik (00:11:55):

even from the Soviet times,

Dziunik (00:11:57):

and has changed the military weight of the country during those periods.

Dziunik (00:12:04):

So if we go through this understanding of each of the aspects,

Dziunik (00:12:09):

we will see that Russia has achieved more with non-rushing into this blanket type

Dziunik (00:12:17):

of attacks towards Ukraine.

Dziunik (00:12:21):

First, because it perceived the Ukrainian people as part of its family,

Dziunik (00:12:27):

as kinship,

Dziunik (00:12:29):

and secondly,

Dziunik (00:12:30):

because

Dziunik (00:12:32):

it would have turned them into total enemies psychologically,

Dziunik (00:12:36):

whereas now most of the Ukrainians really understand what has been played out and

Dziunik (00:12:42):

that they have been put forward as the only anti-Russian gun,

Dziunik (00:12:48):

in a way,

Dziunik (00:12:49):

shooting at Russia and trying to use the manpower to fight against Russians.

Asbed (00:12:58):

So Trump and Putin may meet in Budapest in a couple of weeks.

Asbed (00:13:03):

It's not certain yet.

Asbed (00:13:04):

So who knows what will happen?

Asbed (00:13:06):

And of course, you might ask, why Budapest?

Asbed (00:13:09):

Why Hungary?

Dziunik (00:13:11):

Well, Trump said "we like Viktor Orban.

Asbed (00:13:15):

Putin likes him.

Asbed (00:13:16):

I like him."

Asbed (00:13:17):

So I guess that's a good reason.

Asbed (00:13:19):

Meanwhile, the EU has demanded that Hungary must arrest Putin if he lands in Budapest.

Asbed (00:13:24):

But we already know that Orban will flaunt the law,

Asbed (00:13:28):

the international law,

Asbed (00:13:30):

because earlier this year in April,

Asbed (00:13:31):

Netanyahu visited and he has ICC arrest warrants on him for genocide.

Asbed (00:13:36):

But

Asbed (00:13:37):

Orban was clear that he would not arrest Netanyahu.

Asbed (00:13:39):

So I'm sure that the same will transpire with Putin.

Asbed (00:13:43):

Why is this Putin-Trump summit needed though?

Asbed (00:13:45):

What has changed since the summit in Alaska to warrant a new one?

Dziunik (00:13:50):

Well, I think what has changed is the situation in the Middle East or the deal that he

Dziunik (00:13:57):

presented as a victory in the Middle East.

Hovik (00:14:01):

First time in 3000 years.

Dziunik (00:14:04):

Well, yeah.

Dziunik (00:14:05):

The thing is that, you know, the U.S.

Dziunik (00:14:09):

is the sole teller in this story.

Dziunik (00:14:12):

Let's not forget who is supporting Israel.

Dziunik (00:14:17):

Israel cannot fight the war without the total U.S.

Dziunik (00:14:21):

support.

Dziunik (00:14:23):

Let's not forget that Qatar and Turkey are the U.S.

Dziunik (00:14:30):

allies and they are working under the leadership and under the guidance of the U.S.

Dziunik (00:14:38):

and money flows from these coffers into different parts of the country,

Dziunik (00:14:45):

keeping them as one as NATO ally and also as the

Dziunik (00:14:49):

anti-Iranian force there and the other one as part of the game against Arabic

Dziunik (00:14:58):

unification and acting as the one that is dividing the Arab unity and not allowing

Dziunik (00:15:07):

it to come together.

Dziunik (00:15:09):

And Egypt is the one that is actually, again, depending

Dziunik (00:15:14):

on the US money going into the country and also military force supporting Egypt.

Dziunik (00:15:20):

So if we look at the picture, US has told his right hand

Dziunik (00:15:27):

to act with the left hand and to sign a deal that the only purpose of which was to

Dziunik (00:15:33):

save Israel from its internal upheavals and demonstrations that were destroying

Dziunik (00:15:42):

Netanyahu administration.

Dziunik (00:15:44):

And the only purpose was to get the hostages out and to free the hand for the

Dziunik (00:15:51):

Israeli government to act in Gaza by cleansing it.

Dziunik (00:15:55):

So we have seen already members of the Israeli administration coming out and saying

Dziunik (00:16:01):

that we have to continue the war.

Asbed (00:16:03):

What does Putin have to do with it?

Asbed (00:16:04):

Because he's a mostly, by and large, stayed out of the Gaza issue.

Dziunik (00:16:08):

I'll explain.

Dziunik (00:16:09):

So the way the Trump process, he told players, actually, he

Dziunik (00:16:15):

put them into a non option position,

Dziunik (00:16:21):

saying that if you don't act like I want,

Dziunik (00:16:24):

you won't get anything from us.

Dziunik (00:16:26):

So in that way, he got his way.

Dziunik (00:16:30):

Now he's trying to bring the same approach towards Russia Ukrainian conflict.

Dziunik (00:16:36):

And I think that Zelensky's visit was the purpose.

Dziunik (00:16:38):

So he told Zelensky that you do the way I say or you don't do anything or you don't

Dziunik (00:16:44):

get anything.

Dziunik (00:16:45):

So I think the same approach is being transferred into Ukrainian-Russian situation,

Dziunik (00:16:51):

but I don't think that's going to work because neither Zelensky nor definitely

Dziunik (00:16:57):

Putin is going to play this theatrical performance,

Dziunik (00:17:02):

which is against Russia's security and position in the world.

Hovik (00:17:09):

You know,

Hovik (00:17:10):

we talked about the Washington Post describing Putin's new demands in terms of a

Hovik (00:17:16):

step back,

Hovik (00:17:18):

a concession,

Hovik (00:17:19):

because previously,

Hovik (00:17:20):

before the Alaska summit,

Hovik (00:17:22):

Putin was talking about Odessa or hinting about Odessa.

Hovik (00:17:28):

And if this is accurate,

Hovik (00:17:30):

and we don't know if Washington Post is accurate,

Hovik (00:17:32):

and they have been falsifying news before,

Hovik (00:17:35):

you know,

Dziunik (00:17:37):

We have seen that in vivid presentations since 2001, I think.

Hovik (00:17:45):

But if it is, does this mean that Russia is scaling back its demands?

Hovik (00:17:53):

And will the Russian public and the Russian,

Hovik (00:17:59):

the many powers of Kremlin,

Hovik (00:18:01):

as they say,

Hovik (00:18:02):

the people in power in Kremlin that are not Putin,

Hovik (00:18:06):

would they accept something like that?

Hovik (00:18:08):

What can we really expect from the outcome in Budapest?

Dziunik (00:18:14):

What did he actually say about Odessa?

Hovik (00:18:18):

Well,

Hovik (00:18:19):

I'm not sure, but previously,

Hovik (00:18:21):

it was just that the media was saying that,

Hovik (00:18:23):

you know,

Hovik (00:18:26):

they were making references to Odessa,

Hovik (00:18:32):

Nikolaev,

Hovik (00:18:34):

and,

Hovik (00:18:35):

you know,

Hovik (00:18:36):

it just seemed that Russia was intent on taking that as well.

Hovik (00:18:42):

Meanwhile,

Hovik (00:18:43):

according to the Washington Post story,

Hovik (00:18:45):

Putin is content saying that we want Donbas,

Hovik (00:18:48):

Kherson, and Zaporozhye,

Hovik (00:18:49):

and then we can stop the fighting if those three are given.

Hovik (00:18:54):

So it seems like a scaling back of territorial demands.

Dziunik (00:18:58):

The current official position,

Dziunik (00:18:59):

which was articulated in 2022,

Dziunik (00:19:04):

refers only to the four regions that have become part of Russia.

Dziunik (00:19:10):

through a referendum.

Dziunik (00:19:11):

But if the war goes on,

Dziunik (00:19:14):

I don't exclude other regions,

Dziunik (00:19:17):

not only Odessa,

Dziunik (00:19:18):

Nikolayeva or others,

Dziunik (00:19:20):

or opting to become part of Russia,

Dziunik (00:19:24):

because none of them wants to get destroyed or devastated.

Dziunik (00:19:28):

And there are people being thrown onto the front line as part of the

Dziunik (00:19:35):

gun-power.

Dziunik (00:19:36):

So I think we will see, we will not see much in Budapest.

Dziunik (00:19:44):

We will see some kind of a promise of bilateral relations improving somehow.

Dziunik (00:19:55):

And I think for Russians,

Dziunik (00:19:57):

a sign of this improvement will be getting back their property in the US that has

Dziunik (00:20:03):

been taken as a result of the sanctions or removing some of the sanctions.

Dziunik (00:20:11):

And I mean, the property of the diplomatic.

Dziunik (00:20:15):

representations.

Dziunik (00:20:16):

And that would be the sign that Trump is really serious.

Dziunik (00:20:20):

But I don't think Trump is going to do that.

Dziunik (00:20:22):

So it will be another meeting where Putin will explain the situation in very clear terms.

Dziunik (00:20:32):

And Trump will come out and say that he's in good relations and

Dziunik (00:20:39):

with Putin.

Dziunik (00:20:40):

Putin is his friend and he's trying to solve this issue that is killing thousands

Dziunik (00:20:46):

and thousands of people and then we will see no action going forward and then we

Dziunik (00:20:51):

will see

Dziunik (00:20:52):

rushing into administration's mind and trying to get their,

Dziunik (00:20:57):

I think it's the 19th package of sanctions out.

Dziunik (00:21:00):

So we will see those things till December.

Asbed (00:21:02):

I'm just concerned that the bargaining chips have now become nuclear capable

Asbed (00:21:07):

missiles,

Asbed (00:21:08):

the Tomahawks.

Asbed (00:21:09):

I mean, it's a huge upscaling of the bargaining chips.

Dziunik (00:21:15):

It's a huge upscaling.

Dziunik (00:21:16):

Of course, they will not use the nooks,

Dziunik (00:21:18):

but if they try to use the tomahawks,

Dziunik (00:21:20):

and they are trying to use tomahawks in order to hit the industrial sector of

Dziunik (00:21:25):

Russia inside the country,

Dziunik (00:21:27):

which is providing all this military equipment,

Dziunik (00:21:29):

and again,

Dziunik (00:21:31):

they are stepping into this wrong perception that by

Dziunik (00:21:37):

hitting the country or killing people inside the country.

Dziunik (00:21:42):

They will turn the Russian people against Putin.

Dziunik (00:21:47):

It's not going to work like that.

Dziunik (00:21:48):

Yeah, look at Iran.

Dziunik (00:21:51):

Of course, because, you know, I have been thinking about this for a long time.

Dziunik (00:21:56):

Why?

Dziunik (00:21:57):

And I think the reason is that the U.S.

Dziunik (00:21:59):

does not have a core population that could call the country as a motherland.

Dziunik (00:22:05):

Whereas for Russia, for Iranians, for us, the land is part of our identity.

Dziunik (00:22:12):

So any threat towards identity brings unification,

Dziunik (00:22:17):

no matter whether you agree with the external or internal demonstration of this

Dziunik (00:22:22):

identity.

Dziunik (00:22:23):

Would you want it changed?

Dziunik (00:22:24):

You want it advanced?

Dziunik (00:22:25):

It doesn't matter.

Dziunik (00:22:26):

You do not turn against your own identity and your homeland is part of your identity.

Dziunik (00:22:33):

This is not the perception in the West.

Dziunik (00:22:36):

That's the wrong perception that they have been keeping in the mind and working

Dziunik (00:22:41):

against for hundreds and hundreds of years.

Dziunik (00:22:45):

That's why they are losing war after war while actually attacking Russia,

Dziunik (00:22:51):

because they don't understand the psychology of people.

Dziunik (00:22:55):

And this is how it works.

Hovik (00:22:58):

Let's move to Gaza real quick.

Hovik (00:23:00):

On Monday,

Hovik (00:23:01):

October 13th,

Hovik (00:23:02):

in Sharm el-Sheikh,

Hovik (00:23:04):

with the leaders of Qatar and Turkey at his two sides,

Hovik (00:23:07):

Trump claimed with great bombacity that in the first time in 500 years,

Hovik (00:23:13):

and then he edited himself and said,

Hovik (00:23:14):

no,

Hovik (00:23:15):

no, no,

Hovik (00:23:16):

3,000 years, he has brought peace to the region.

Hovik (00:23:18):

Neither Israel nor Hamas showed up.

Hovik (00:23:22):

to the meeting,

Hovik (00:23:23):

but already there are claims of violations and a fresh bombing campaign happened

Hovik (00:23:29):

less than a day into when the ceasefire was supposed to take place.

Hovik (00:23:34):

So all this self-congratulation aside by Trump,

Hovik (00:23:38):

What is taking place in the Middle East?

Hovik (00:23:42):

What is taking place in Gaza?

Hovik (00:23:43):

What is the plan?

Hovik (00:23:45):

Or is there a plan that we're not seeing?

Hovik (00:23:48):

Because this just seems to be, at least from our perspective, just like a temporary pause.

Dziunik (00:23:53):

Well, I think we're seeing serious preparation to strike Iran.

Dziunik (00:23:59):

And this whole thing was part of this game.

Dziunik (00:24:03):

It was a very nicely worked out project to release the hostages.

Dziunik (00:24:10):

That was a pain in the neck for the Netanyahu administration,

Dziunik (00:24:17):

and its own public was demonstrating hundreds and thousands coming out into the

Dziunik (00:24:23):

streets, not allowing him to work as he wants to work.

Dziunik (00:24:28):

and to fight his neighbors in order to get this greater Israel dream becoming truth.

Dziunik (00:24:37):

So that was the only thing that this project served,

Dziunik (00:24:42):

and it served bringing the hostages home,

Dziunik (00:24:46):

some of the bodies home,

Dziunik (00:24:48):

and releasing the Israeli Netanyahu administration's hands in going forward with

Dziunik (00:24:54):

his plans

Dziunik (00:24:55):

the ultimate goal of which is the reconstruction of the Middle East and making it

Dziunik (00:25:02):

dependent on Israel and with Israel on the U.S.

Hovik (00:25:07):

You mentioned Iran,

Hovik (00:25:08):

and actually we'll go there,

Hovik (00:25:10):

but it was prominently featured that the leaders of Qatar and Turkey were on his

Hovik (00:25:20):

side.

Hovik (00:25:22):

And in general, I think that Turkey has been playing a very...

Hovik (00:25:30):

very diplomatic and very complex game in this whole war you know i mean it has

Hovik (00:25:36):

sometimes even threatened military action against Israel uh it has vowed to defend

Hovik (00:25:43):

Palestinians but then the Israeli attack against Gaza would not

Hovik (00:25:49):

be possible in the first place if only Erdogan had turned off the valve for the

Hovik (00:25:56):

petroleum that flows into Israel from Azerbaijan.

Hovik (00:26:00):

So how important was the role of Qatar and Turkey in this process?

Hovik (00:26:08):

And what is their role in this game?

Dziunik (00:26:11):

I think Qatar's role is clearer than Turkey's.

Dziunik (00:26:18):

It has been

Dziunik (00:26:19):

actually working in line with US administration.

Dziunik (00:26:24):

Of course,

Dziunik (00:26:25):

they were hosting the Hamas leadership,

Dziunik (00:26:29):

but that was also part of this total reconstructing of the Middle Eastern game that

Dziunik (00:26:34):

was initiated to

Dziunik (00:26:37):

I think in the middle of 2000,

Dziunik (00:26:39):

when Hamas was created in order to put it against the Palestinian administration.

Dziunik (00:26:49):

And that's where Israel also took part in the creation of Hamas.

Dziunik (00:26:54):

So again, with the divide and rule policy that we have seen with Turkey,

Dziunik (00:27:01):

It's much more interesting.

Dziunik (00:27:02):

Turkey, as always, has played a multifaceted game.

Dziunik (00:27:06):

On the surface,

Dziunik (00:27:07):

it was criticizing Israel and loudly calling it a genocidal state,

Dziunik (00:27:14):

but selling its own goods through Cyprus to Israel,

Dziunik (00:27:19):

as you mentioned,

Dziunik (00:27:20):

allowing the Azeri

Dziunik (00:27:22):

oil to flow into Israel, which it used for the tanks and other vehicles to attack Gaza.

Dziunik (00:27:31):

So this is part of this game where Turkey is brought up by the West as the leader

Dziunik (00:27:43):

of the Islamic world.

Dziunik (00:27:46):

and the main actor in the Middle East from the Islamic part.

Dziunik (00:27:52):

And that's where you see the controversy with Arab countries, especially Saudi Arabia,

Dziunik (00:28:00):

and also Iran,

Dziunik (00:28:01):

which cannot accept any kind of a leading role on behalf of Turkey,

Dziunik (00:28:06):

because first and foremost,

Dziunik (00:28:08):

Turkey is a member of NATO.

Dziunik (00:28:10):

It means that it's part of the Western hegemonic game that is played out in the Middle East.

Dziunik (00:28:18):

So I think with Turkey, it's more of a role played out, whereas the sole purpose

Dziunik (00:28:26):

of the Western support to Turkey is to turn it against Iran,

Dziunik (00:28:31):

actually to use it against Iran,

Dziunik (00:28:33):

to which it has agreed.

Dziunik (00:28:34):

And part of this agreement was allowing it to destroy Syria and gain parts of Syria

Dziunik (00:28:41):

as part of its...

Asbed (00:28:47):

Spoils,

Asbed (00:28:48):

basically.

Dziunik (00:28:48):

Spoils, yeah.

Dziunik (00:28:50):

It's a spoil, yeah.

Dziunik (00:28:51):

And I think in the same way they allowed Turkey to fight against Armenians in

Dziunik (00:28:57):

Nagorno-Karabakh and give Nagorno-Karabakh to Azerbaijan for the purpose of using

Dziunik (00:29:04):

the territory for striking Iran.

Hovik (00:29:08):

Yeah.

Hovik (00:29:09):

Okay, let's talk about Iran.

Hovik (00:29:13):

Many experts and analysts worry about an attack on Iran being in the works.

Hovik (00:29:21):

The most prominent in Western media is Trita Parsi, who has warned back in August...

Hovik (00:29:26):

that Israeli government that Israel's government has unfinished business uh with

Hovik (00:29:32):

Iran and another round of strikes weeks or months away and that such a war would

Hovik (00:29:38):

likely pull in the united states of course uh those that think that Trita Parsi is

Hovik (00:29:43):

the originator of this concern should watch our podcast more because if they had

Hovik (00:29:48):

watched Dziunik Aghajanian before they would know that you know we have been talking

Hovik (00:29:53):

about this for a long time

Hovik (00:29:55):

Yes,

Dziunik (00:29:56):

and I mentioned that we should expect it sometime in August up until the middle of

Dziunik (00:30:03):

November.

Hovik (00:30:04):

Right.

Hovik (00:30:05):

So what's your current assessment of the likelihood of an attack on the war in Iran?

Hovik (00:30:12):

It seems like you think that the so-called ceasefire in Gaza is essentially not a

Hovik (00:30:20):

game changer in that equation.

Hovik (00:30:22):

Is that right? Or is that even part of the equation?

Dziunik (00:30:25):

It's part of the equation.

Dziunik (00:30:27):

It's part of the equation.

Dziunik (00:30:29):

Hamas could do nothing but agree to the release of hostages for the sake of getting

Dziunik (00:30:37):

some humanitarian aid into the area and with the hope that they will gain some time

Dziunik (00:30:44):

to breathe,

Dziunik (00:30:45):

I think.

Dziunik (00:30:46):

But the game is not over.

Dziunik (00:30:49):

We are almost end of October.

Dziunik (00:30:52):

So if nothing happens within the next week or 10 days,

Dziunik (00:30:55):

then it would mean that the strike against Iran has moved to February-March period.

Dziunik (00:31:03):

But according to my understanding,

Dziunik (00:31:06):

is that the West is,

Dziunik (00:31:08):

under the US leadership,

Dziunik (00:31:10):

is getting seriously ready for this attack.

Dziunik (00:31:13):

And they are using, they are kind of pushing themselves in a motion that they would

Dziunik (00:31:22):

think would guarantee their success in this case.

Dziunik (00:31:26):

And I think this will be also part of the talks in Budapest with Russia.

Dziunik (00:31:30):

That's why Trump is also trying to kind of appease Russia in a way to stay away

Dziunik (00:31:37):

from supporting Iran when this attack happens.

Dziunik (00:31:41):

But I don't think it's going to work.

Hovik (00:31:43):

So in the past,

Hovik (00:31:44):

we have talked about Iran's reactions to being encircled or being threatened from

Hovik (00:31:53):

the north,

Hovik (00:31:54):

from Armenia.

Hovik (00:31:55):

It has stated red lines that it would defend the sovereignty of Armenia,

Hovik (00:32:01):

sometimes even despite Armenia,

Hovik (00:32:03):

despite the current leadership of Armenia.

Dziunik (00:32:05):

Most of the time, despite the current leadership of Armenia.

Hovik (00:32:11):

Has the revelation of the Trump route,

Hovik (00:32:15):

the August meeting in the White House,

Hovik (00:32:18):

changed Iran's calculus towards Armenia?

Dziunik (00:32:22):

No, I don't think so.

Dziunik (00:32:26):

Given the pronouncements that we heard from the higher leadership of Iran,

Dziunik (00:32:31):

they understand the situation very well.

Dziunik (00:32:34):

But they still hope that with the passage of time, the situation will change and it will kind of

Dziunik (00:32:41):

push back a little bit or push afar the possibility of the development.

Dziunik (00:32:49):

But I don't think that they have been really cheated into believing that this

Dziunik (00:32:56):

so-called trip is a mere road that will connect for the trade purposes and there

Dziunik (00:33:03):

will be no issue with the security or with the threat

Dziunik (00:33:09):

against Iran.

Dziunik (00:33:11):

I think they do very well.

Dziunik (00:33:12):

That's why the Armenian side,

Dziunik (00:33:15):

the current administration in my country,

Dziunik (00:33:17):

is trying to present and we see different kind of delegations on different levels

Dziunik (00:33:24):

going to Iran or talking to them and trying to explain that it's not the case.

Dziunik (00:33:29):

Don't worry, it's only trade.

Dziunik (00:33:32):

I don't think they believe a single word coming out from them.

Dziunik (00:33:36):

Moreover, we have seen a delegation from the U.S.

Dziunik (00:33:40):

that has come to so-called examine the situation on the ground and give suggestions

Dziunik (00:33:47):

and work out the details of the agreement for the trip.

Dziunik (00:33:52):

And we haven't heard a single statement.

Dziunik (00:33:55):

worried about what they actually did and what agreements have been achieved.

Dziunik (00:34:02):

So it adds on mistrust towards the ultimate purpose of this trip.

Hovik (00:34:12):

Yeah.

Hovik (00:34:13):

So in Israel, they actually discuss publicly what they like to do to Iran.

Hovik (00:34:20):

They like to dismember it,

Hovik (00:34:21):

and not by sending in an army,

Hovik (00:34:23):

that would be too expensive,

Hovik (00:34:24):

but by instigating a collapse from within and stalking separatism.

Hovik (00:34:30):

To remind our listeners, Iran has pockets of Kurdish, Arabic,

Hovik (00:34:34):

Turkish Azeri or Turkic speaking minorities that have in the past at one time or

Hovik (00:34:40):

another have been induced to rise up against the government and a large Azerbaijani

Hovik (00:34:46):

speaking population lives in the north

Hovik (00:34:50):

bordering Azerbaijan itself and also bordering Turkey.

Hovik (00:34:54):

We've seen many analysts on the show that have highlighted Azerbaijan's potential

Hovik (00:34:59):

when it comes to partitioning Iran and its chosen role.

Hovik (00:35:03):

And less often talked about, however, is Turkey's role in this.

Hovik (00:35:09):

Although we've seen,

Hovik (00:35:10):

for instance, sometimes Turkish TV shows featuring interviews of Turkish generals who talk about

Hovik (00:35:15):

the need to ensure the security of their brethren

Hovik (00:35:19):

if the need arises.

Hovik (00:35:22):

So,

Hovik (00:35:23):

we've talked about Israel's cooperation with Azerbaijan in the past,

Hovik (00:35:28):

but seeing Erdogan at Trump's side made me think about what role might be in the

Hovik (00:35:36):

script or in the...

Hovik (00:35:38):

playbook for turkey in all this um and we of course we know that turkey would not

Hovik (00:35:44):

be against expanding its influence even more but we're just wondering if Erdogan

Hovik (00:35:51):

would be so adventurous as to even think about being part of an attack on against

Hovik (00:35:56):

Iran what are your thoughts

Dziunik (00:35:59):

Well, I think we have discussed this before,

Dziunik (00:36:01):

and I have explained that this whole game that was played out with regard to

Dziunik (00:36:07):

Nagorno-Karabakh is part of the bigger geopolitical game of reconstructing the

Dziunik (00:36:15):

whole region, getting resources both in the Caspian and in the Central Asian region under the

Dziunik (00:36:25):

Western

Dziunik (00:36:27):

hegemony and using both Turkey and Azerbaijan for these purposes.

Dziunik (00:36:34):

And they have been part of the agreement to act as such.

Dziunik (00:36:39):

The only difference was that the Russia-Ukrainian situation did not allow their

Dziunik (00:36:47):

plans to go as they initially understood it should work out.

Dziunik (00:36:52):

because they were thinking that Russia will fall apart or the Russian leadership will change.

Dziunik (00:36:59):

So the situation will be different and they will easily attack with the Western

Dziunik (00:37:04):

might-ful powers and military equipment.

Dziunik (00:37:09):

They will attack Iran with no hit back from their side.

Dziunik (00:37:13):

But the situation changed.

Dziunik (00:37:16):

And with the current situation, when you have the Ukrainian side,

Dziunik (00:37:22):

with no proper military resources being provided to them,

Dziunik (00:37:27):

with Israeli war going on,

Dziunik (00:37:29):

again,

Dziunik (00:37:30):

with difficulties of military development,

Dziunik (00:37:32):

weaponry being provided to them,

Dziunik (00:37:35):

Turkey and Azerbaijan are unwilling to act as they have promised.

Dziunik (00:37:40):

And that's why they are pushing back on their part of the game that they would have

Dziunik (00:37:47):

played already in 2023,

Dziunik (00:37:49):

exactly after the fall of Nagorno-Karabakh.

Dziunik (00:37:54):

We saw Azerbaijanis getting better relations with Iran and then changing their

Dziunik (00:38:02):

position and getting better relations with Russia.

Dziunik (00:38:06):

You have this grain agreement, wheat agreement with Russia from Turkish side.

Dziunik (00:38:13):

So they are shifting their positions in order to delay the demand

Dziunik (00:38:22):

from them to act according to their agreements,

Dziunik (00:38:25):

according to the understanding of what role they have to play,

Dziunik (00:38:30):

because both Turkey and Azerbaijan understand that they will be using their own

Dziunik (00:38:35):

military resources with no possible plans of replenishing them because the U.S.

Dziunik (00:38:44):

cannot provide for four or five

Dziunik (00:38:48):

wars at the same time, and the Western countries have no resources to do so.

Dziunik (00:38:54):

So it would mean putting both Turkey and Azerbaijan at risk of actually losing the

Dziunik (00:39:00):

countries and losing the powers for Aliyev and for Erdogan,

Dziunik (00:39:04):

because now they are at the top of their prestige.

Dziunik (00:39:08):

They are at the height of their

Dziunik (00:39:09):

achievements and just falling down from this height.

Dziunik (00:39:14):

I don't think any political leader is especially the very nuanced Turkic leaders

Dziunik (00:39:20):

are not going to do that.

Dziunik (00:39:22):

That's why you see somehow sometimes playing with the U.S.

Dziunik (00:39:29):

administration trying to get to gain some agreements with regards to F-16s of F-35s.

Dziunik (00:39:38):

aircrafts and other agreements on their ruling of the Kurdish parts in Syria or

Dziunik (00:39:47):

getting some other areas in Syria.

Dziunik (00:39:51):

So it's part of a give and take from different sides trying to push the Erdogan

Dziunik (00:39:58):

administration and push Aliyev into acting according to the agreements that have

Dziunik (00:40:04):

been put forward before even everything

Dziunik (00:40:08):

that we saw in the Ukrainian front or before even we saw in 2020 in the Caucasus started.

Dziunik (00:40:16):

So this is part of this bigger game being played out.

Dziunik (00:40:20):

It's simply that Erdogan and Aliyev do not want to lose either the fight that they

Dziunik (00:40:25):

have gained up until now or the political prestige that they have gained up until

Dziunik (00:40:31):

now.

Dziunik (00:40:32):

So this is what is happening.

Dziunik (00:40:34):

But I think

Dziunik (00:40:36):

we will see different kind of pressurizing acts or events happening and the recent one was

Dziunik (00:40:45):

somehow the Azeri oil that was considered to be not fit for the European market.

Dziunik (00:40:53):

So this was part of this carrot and stick policy that is being played out.

Dziunik (00:40:59):

And both the Brits and the US American administrations are trying to push them to act.

Dziunik (00:41:07):

And Israelis are

Dziunik (00:41:09):

also part of the game.

Dziunik (00:41:11):

But I think we will see with the time some melting down of the relations and we saw

Dziunik (00:41:18):

currently with the Azeri and Russian relations some meltdown and then we will see

Dziunik (00:41:24):

again straining them when the time comes to act and they will be playing this back

Dziunik (00:41:32):

and forth game

Dziunik (00:41:34):

or several times as more.

Dziunik (00:41:37):

We will see what happens.

Dziunik (00:41:38):

But I think for the coming days,

Dziunik (00:41:42):

up to 10 days,

Dziunik (00:41:43):

we have this period for Netanyahu to,

Dziunik (00:41:48):

again,

Dziunik (00:41:50):

strain the situation in the Middle East.

Dziunik (00:41:52):

But I don't think he will go for Iran now.

Dziunik (00:41:55):

I don't think they're ready fully for Iran.

Dziunik (00:41:58):

I think he's getting more prepared in the surrounding areas like in Lebanon and we

Dziunik (00:42:07):

will see in Syria.

Dziunik (00:42:09):

kind of going forward and getting his positions better, better placed for the actions.

Dziunik (00:42:15):

We will see development in Pakistan, Afghanistan side, as we have seen, because part of the

Dziunik (00:42:24):

plan is to use these so-called terrorist groups for destabilization of Iran from

Dziunik (00:42:33):

inside and using their connections to do so.

Dziunik (00:42:37):

We will see some kind of development in the Azerbaijan,

Dziunik (00:42:41):

not Aliyev's Azerbaijan,

Dziunik (00:42:46):

the real,

Dziunik (00:42:47):

which is simply Iranian people speaking the Turkic language.

Dziunik (00:42:52):

and trying to increase the possibility of some kind of a separatist movement going forward.

Dziunik (00:42:59):

So we will see this preparation being made towards the bigger, more unexpected attack.

Dziunik (00:43:06):

But I think the Iranian side understands the situation well.

Dziunik (00:43:11):

understand it well,

Dziunik (00:43:12):

China understands it well,

Dziunik (00:43:14):

India understand it well,

Dziunik (00:43:16):

and I think they are preparing as well for the coming developments.

Dziunik (00:43:20):

I don't think our government understands it well because we don't see,

Dziunik (00:43:24):

I see preparation for giving up any defensive possibilities for the country rather

Dziunik (00:43:31):

than unifying the country against the coming risks.

Hovik (00:43:35):

Just to close this topic,

Hovik (00:43:37):

Aliyev and Pashinyan were also in Sharm el-Sheikh,

Hovik (00:43:40):

but I don't know their place in it,

Hovik (00:43:42):

but we'll come back to it a little bit later.

Hovik (00:43:46):

But I want to bring us to Armenia, our section of the

Hovik (00:43:53):

insane asylum that is the world politics right now.

Hovik (00:43:56):

At home, Pashinyan's repression intensified greatly.

Hovik (00:44:01):

On Wednesday,

Hovik (00:44:02):

October 13th,

Hovik (00:44:03):

authorities raided offices and homes of the Armenian Apostolic Church clergy and

Hovik (00:44:09):

employees in Aragatsotn province,

Hovik (00:44:12):

arresting Bishop Mkrtich Proshyan and a dozen other clergy and staff.

Hovik (00:44:18):

In fact, in total right now we have two archbishops, one bishop and multiple priests right now.

Hovik (00:44:25):

And vicars.

Hovik (00:44:27):

And vicars, yes.

Hovik (00:44:28):

And the following day,

Hovik (00:44:31):

the compliant courts ordered two-month pretrial detention for Bishop Proshyan.

Hovik (00:44:35):

The government alleges that Proshyan had compelled his priests to attend opposition rallies.

Hovik (00:44:45):

Of course, the news coming in just today,

Hovik (00:44:47):

we're recording this on Monday,

Hovik (00:44:49):

is that Vardan Ghukasyan,

Hovik (00:44:51):

mayor of Gyumri,

Hovik (00:44:52):

the second largest city in Armenia,

Hovik (00:44:53):

has been arrested.

Hovik (00:44:55):

There are demonstrations.

Hovik (00:44:57):

And if you think that these are isolated cases, let me just try to...

Hovik (00:45:01):

brief you about some of the things that also happened in the last weeks, okay?

Hovik (00:45:05):

Just two weeks ago,

Hovik (00:45:06):

Archbishop Mikayel Ajapahyan was sentenced to two years in prison,

Hovik (00:45:10):

basically for saying something,

Hovik (00:45:12):

for his speech.

Hovik (00:45:14):

Samvel Karapetyan, a patron of the church, had his pretrial detention extended by another month.

Hovik (00:45:21):

And again, that was for something that he said.

Hovik (00:45:23):

He said, in our own way, you know, we will combat this in our own way.

Hovik (00:45:28):

One of the lawyers for Archbishop Bagrat Srbazan,

Hovik (00:45:35):

Alexander Kochubayev,

Hovik (00:45:37):

was also in pretrial detention on different charges.

Hovik (00:45:42):

He was arrested by mass law enforcement for something he wrote on Facebook.

Hovik (00:45:48):

And he was basically splayed out on asphalt, very demeaning treatment.

Hovik (00:45:55):

Like an armed criminal.

Hovik (00:45:57):

like an armed terrorist, not even just a criminal.

Hovik (00:46:00):

And this act was condemned by the International Commission of Jurists.

Hovik (00:46:06):

And yet, here is all the EU had to say about Armenia.

Hovik (00:46:11):

And I'm quoting Vassilis Maragos, the EU representative to Armenia.

Hovik (00:46:15):

The European Union is ready to assist in the creation of a US-administered transit

Hovik (00:46:20):

corridor that would connect Azerbaijan to its Nakhijevan province through

Hovik (00:46:23):

Armenia's strategic Syunik region.

Asbed (00:46:26):

You know, I'm absolutely incensed.

Asbed (00:46:29):

I'm absolutely incensed that they talk about values and other of their ideas and

Asbed (00:46:34):

stuff like that.

Asbed (00:46:35):

There's not a single word from them about all of these infringements on their own

Asbed (00:46:41):

values by the Armenian government.

Asbed (00:46:43):

And all they talk about is basically their interest in connecting two parts of

Asbed (00:46:48):

Azerbaijan across Armenia.

Hovik (00:46:49):

There's nothing from Europe.

Hovik (00:46:52):

The examples we read were just a few.

Hovik (00:46:55):

And it's funny that they allow Pashinyan to make loud announcements that Armenia

Hovik (00:47:01):

wants to join the EU.

Hovik (00:47:02):

It's just surreal.

Hovik (00:47:04):

It's like a doublespeak or is it double talk from 1984 when he's saying something

Hovik (00:47:12):

and doing the exact opposite.

Hovik (00:47:13):

But I want to go to Dziunik by asking why

Hovik (00:47:17):

is he targeting the church?

Hovik (00:47:18):

I mean, this is reminiscent of the Stalinist purges in Armenia 80, 90 years ago, if you ask me.

Hovik (00:47:26):

I mean, it seems very concerted effort to target the Armenian Apostolic Church as part of

Hovik (00:47:32):

this, whatever these games are.

Dziunik (00:47:34):

Well, you're misreading the EU expressions because they are giving out the main purpose

Dziunik (00:47:42):

for which they have been acting and what they have been doing for the last

Dziunik (00:47:46):

more than 20 years.

Dziunik (00:47:48):

The only purpose they have is to go forward with their plans,

Dziunik (00:47:54):

as I explained,

Dziunik (00:47:56):

to start the war with Iran,

Dziunik (00:47:59):

to

Dziunik (00:48:02):

deconstruct the whole region to push Russia out of this area to gain the resources,

Dziunik (00:48:11):

both in the Caspian and in the Central Asia.

Dziunik (00:48:15):

So for this purpose,

Dziunik (00:48:17):

They would close their eyes.

Dziunik (00:48:19):

They would shut their mouth.

Dziunik (00:48:20):

They would close their ears and notice nothing that is happening.

Dziunik (00:48:25):

Moreover, they will give a green light to what is happening.

Dziunik (00:48:29):

They have shown it in Romania.

Dziunik (00:48:31):

They have shown it in Moldova.

Dziunik (00:48:33):

They have shown it in their own countries that no democratic value exists in actuality.

Dziunik (00:48:40):

No human rights exist in actuality.

Dziunik (00:48:43):

They will speak about that if it serves their own purpose.

Dziunik (00:48:47):

If it does not, they will not even notice that any problem exists.

Dziunik (00:48:52):

So what is doing the current Armenian administration is at the full go ahead from

Dziunik (00:49:00):

the European Union,

Dziunik (00:49:01):

from the European countries that they are saying,

Dziunik (00:49:04):

just do what you have promised.

Dziunik (00:49:06):

just achieve what we have put forward for you,

Dziunik (00:49:10):

for what we have brought you to power,

Dziunik (00:49:12):

so that we can do what we have to do.

Dziunik (00:49:16):

And for that purpose,

Dziunik (00:49:17):

we see the repressions in Armenia,

Dziunik (00:49:20):

because we have elections in Etchmiadzin,

Dziunik (00:49:23):

in Vagharshapat community,

Dziunik (00:49:25):

and you did not mention about the killing of the

Dziunik (00:49:29):

elected leader of the Parakar community.

Dziunik (00:49:36):

And it is definitely political killing.

Dziunik (00:49:39):

And we see this

Dziunik (00:49:42):

a straight line of actually decapitating any opposition leader that could unite the

Dziunik (00:49:51):

population and take the population out into the streets.

Dziunik (00:49:56):

So this is what the current leadership with the Prime Minister sitting at the top is doing.

Dziunik (00:50:03):

They are cleansing the area

Dziunik (00:50:06):

from any opposition leader that would stop the plans from implementation.

Dziunik (00:50:15):

And they have the time ticking for them, so they have to do it very quickly.

Dziunik (00:50:19):

They know that they have no rating in the country.

Dziunik (00:50:24):

They know that the people understand well what the ultimate purpose of this current

Dziunik (00:50:29):

administration was,

Dziunik (00:50:30):

that they are serving the Turkish and Azeri

Dziunik (00:50:34):

the plans and agenda so this is what they are doing and they have the blessing and

Dziunik (00:50:39):

the go-ahead from both the u.s administration and the European countries so this is

Dziunik (00:50:45):

the sole purpose get the trip operational so that we can transfer the heavy

Dziunik (00:50:50):

weaponry

Dziunik (00:50:51):

and the manpower from turkey to Azerbaijan so that they can be part of the land

Dziunik (00:50:58):

attack on Iran this is the sole purpose that that is put forward currently against

Hovik (00:51:03):

the armenian administration the only the only other comment i have is you know um

Hovik (00:51:10):

archbishop Russian uh is a relative of catholic the Catholicos

Hovik (00:51:17):

this entire attack against the church started after the Catholicos went to burn

Hovik (00:51:23):

Switzerland and talked about the rights of Artsakhtsis and then immediately the

Hovik (00:51:29):

leader of the so-called caucasian muslims in uh Azerbaijan started speaking up

Hovik (00:51:35):

against uh the armenian church saying that the armenian they spoke about the church

Dziunik (00:51:40):

well ahead I mean

Dziunik (00:51:41):

before as well.

Dziunik (00:51:42):

They have mentioned the church and the diaspora as the ones that are standing

Dziunik (00:51:48):

against their plans of achieving their ultimate goal of making Armenia totally

Dziunik (00:51:55):

depend on them,

Dziunik (00:51:57):

on turning Armenia into Western Azerbaijan.

Dziunik (00:52:00):

So this is also part of the plan because the population in Armenia does not agree.

Dziunik (00:52:05):

Armenian church is part of Armenian identity.

Dziunik (00:52:07):

The identity does not allow

Dziunik (00:52:09):

any foreign occupation or any foreign rule over its own people.

Dziunik (00:52:15):

So they are trying to actually demontage the church,

Dziunik (00:52:20):

the only institution that is still standing.

Dziunik (00:52:22):

And there are attacks against Catholics,

Dziunik (00:52:24):

because this is simple,

Dziunik (00:52:26):

just a case for them to go forward and to

Dziunik (00:52:31):

deconstruct also to put to to divide Armenia from diaspora because Armenian church

Dziunik (00:52:38):

is also the uniting power of Armenian diaspora and most of the unification comes

Dziunik (00:52:46):

through the Armenian identity that the church has carried for thousands and

Dziunik (00:52:50):

thousands of years.

Dziunik (00:52:51):

So this is the ultimate thing of

Dziunik (00:52:54):

of making Armenia dependent and actually killing all Armenians in this part of the world.

Dziunik (00:53:02):

That's what it said.

Dziunik (00:53:03):

It's killing the soul of Armenians.

Dziunik (00:53:06):

killing the opposition power within Armenians not to act according to the wishes

Dziunik (00:53:14):

and wills of its own enemies.

Dziunik (00:53:16):

So this is what's happening.

Dziunik (00:53:18):

And for that, the repressions will go, they will increase.

Dziunik (00:53:22):

And for that, we will see that's why they want

Dziunik (00:53:24):

Just the way Turks acted during the genocide.

Dziunik (00:53:28):

They killed all the... They decapitated the nation.

Dziunik (00:53:32):

They killed the people that could unite and make the population stand against Turks

Dziunik (00:53:40):

and not allow the killings to go forward.

Dziunik (00:53:43):

So this is the same policy being carried out.

Dziunik (00:53:45):

The worst part of it that it is being carried out by our own administration.

Asbed (00:53:51):

Yeah, April 24 was the start of the killing of the intellectual and spiritual leadership

Asbed (00:53:57):

of the nation.

Dziunik (00:53:57):

Before they gathered all the people to service and killed them there so that there

Dziunik (00:54:02):

would be no man standing and fighting against the Turkish murderers.

Dziunik (00:54:09):

The same thing is happening now.

Asbed (00:54:10):

All right.

Asbed (00:54:11):

I am going to wrap up our topics here.

Asbed (00:54:13):

We're out of time.

Asbed (00:54:14):

And obviously,

Asbed (00:54:16):

it's time for me to ask each of you to share some thoughts with our listeners,

Asbed (00:54:20):

if you would like.

Asbed (00:54:21):

Dziunik, anything you would like to share?

Dziunik (00:54:24):

Well,

Dziunik (00:54:25):

I think the only picture that comes into my mind is our prime minister's standing

Dziunik (00:54:32):

there as part of the decoration in Sharm el-Sheikh.

Dziunik (00:54:36):

as part of the back frame for the picture and also trying to explain who he is to

Dziunik (00:54:43):

Trump with whom he signed this world-breaking deal just two months ago.

Dziunik (00:54:51):

So I think either his looks are not so good or Trump's memory is not so good that

Dziunik (00:54:56):

he had to present himself again in order for Trump to remember that Armenia is not

Dziunik (00:55:02):

Albania and the war

Dziunik (00:55:05):

Actually, the war is not between Armenia and Azerbaijan,

Dziunik (00:55:08):

but the war is for the Armenian identity.

Asbed (00:55:12):

Hovig, what's on your mind?

Hovik (00:55:14):

Well, just that, I think that, you know, what Dziunik is saying, I want to fully agree with.

Hovik (00:55:19):

The Armenian church is, you know, an irrevocable part of the Armenian identity.

Hovik (00:55:29):

And I think people who think that they can edit that identity, you know, with ease are mistaken.

Hovik (00:55:38):

But...

Hovik (00:55:42):

Yeah, I mean,

Hovik (00:55:43):

whether you're a secular Armenian or whether you are a religious Armenian,

Hovik (00:55:49):

you know,

Hovik (00:55:50):

whether you go to church every Sunday,

Hovik (00:55:52):

I think that the church has a very strong position in the life of Armenians in

Hovik (00:55:59):

general.

Hovik (00:56:00):

And it's troubling that this is going to lead to more conflict and more division

Hovik (00:56:08):

in Armenia if this continues,

Hovik (00:56:10):

but I saw reports in the media that Pashinyan is targeting October 28th,

Hovik (00:56:16):

which was the date of the anointment or coronation of Catholicos Garegin II as a

Hovik (00:56:26):

date during which he will try to essentially take over the Armenian church and get

Hovik (00:56:32):

Garegin,

Hovik (00:56:33):

either arrest him or somehow

Hovik (00:56:35):

force him to step down so theoretically that's next Tuesday, in 8 days.

Hovik (00:56:42):

Yeah, I hope that's wrong but I would not put that you know we have to be...

Dziunik (00:56:50):

vigilant yeah yeah we have to be vigilant and not allow that to happen.

Hovik (00:56:56):

I agree, and I hope that the Armenian public is ready because I don't see any letdown in

Hovik (00:57:02):

these tensions,

Hovik (00:57:03):

and we will try to keep our listeners and viewers abreast of any new developments

Hovik (00:57:10):

in this area.

Asbed (00:57:11):

All right.

Asbed (00:57:12):

That's it for today.

Asbed (00:57:13):

Thank you so much for joining us, Ambassador.

Dziunik (00:57:15):

Thank you.

Asbed (00:57:16):

We'll talk to you soon.

Hovik (00:57:18):

Thank you.

Asbed (00:57:20):

That was our Week in Review show recorded on October 20, 2025.

Asbed (00:57:24):

We've been talking with Ambassador Dziunik Aghajanian,

Asbed (00:57:28):

who served Armenia through the ranks of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs,

Asbed (00:57:31):

and most recently as a diplomat as Armenia's ambassador to such countries as the

Asbed (00:57:36):

Netherlands,

Asbed (00:57:37):

Malaysia, and Indonesia.

Asbed (00:57:38):

She received her education at Yerevan State University,

Asbed (00:57:42):

Columbia University in New York,

Asbed (00:57:44):

and Uppsala University in Sweden.

Hovik (00:57:46):

I want to thank you again for following us.

Hovik (00:57:50):

Thank you for liking and sharing our content.

Hovik (00:57:53):

So just please,

Hovik (00:57:54):

you know,

Hovik (00:57:55):

one more reminder that in case you haven't liked and shared our content yet,

Hovik (00:58:00):

do that before you close your YouTube viewer.

Hovik (00:58:04):

And we'll be eternally grateful.

Hovik (00:58:08):

And if you actually can afford and are willing to help us out financially,

Hovik (00:58:13):

the location for that is podcasts.groong.org / donate.

Hovik (00:58:19):

And any amount you provide will go towards improving the efficiency.

Hovik (00:58:25):

Asbed and I spent many hours preparing for the material,

Hovik (00:58:31):

editing it afterwards and then publishing it.

Hovik (00:58:33):

So we want to expedite that process that will allow us to focus more time on new

Hovik (00:58:40):

episodes or,

Hovik (00:58:42):

you know,

Hovik (00:58:43):

I apologize for this, but also sleep,

Hovik (00:58:44):

which is important.

Hovik (00:58:45):

So thank you.

(00:58:47):

I'm Asbed Bedrossian in Los Angeles.

(00:58:50):

And I'm Hovik Manucharyan in Los Angeles.

(00:58:53):

We'll talk to you next week.

Head Shot

Asbed Bedrossian

Co-host
Head Shot

Hovik Manucharyan

Co-host
Head Shot

Dziunik Aghajanyan

Guest

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