Armenian News Network - Groong: Week In Review Podcast

Matt Hoh - What Happened to America First, TRIPP and other US Adventures | Ep 491 - Nov 30, 2025

• Armenian News Network / Groong • Episode 491

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Conversations on Groong - November 30, 2025

Topics:

  •  Venezuela
  •  Ukraine War
  •  Gaza
  •  TRIPP in Armenia

Guest: Matthew Hoh

Hosts: 

  • Hovik Manucharyan
  • Asbed Bedrossian

Episode 491 | Recorded: November 29, 2025

Show Notes: https://podcasts.groong.org/491

Video: https://youtu.be/ZZ_n9Mwum30

#Venezuela #AmericaFirst #USForeignPolicy #TRIPP #UkraineWar


Subscribe and follow us everywhere you are: linktr.ee/groong

Asbed (00:00:05):

Hello, everyone, and welcome to this Conversations on Groong episode.

Asbed (00:00:09):

Today, we're talking about Trump's foreign policy and action around the world and the

Asbed (00:00:13):

splinter it is causing inside MAGA and America First.

Asbed (00:00:18):

We will be joined by Captain Matthew Ho,

Asbed (00:00:20):

a veteran Marine Corps officer,

Asbed (00:00:22):

former diplomat and prominent anti-war advocate.

Asbed (00:00:25):

So stay tuned for this exciting discussion.

Hovik (00:00:29):

Folks,

Hovik (00:00:30):

if this is the first time you're seeing us,

Hovik (00:00:32):

namely through Matt Ho,

Hovik (00:00:34):

then I want to introduce myself.

Hovik (00:00:36):

My name is Hovik Manucharyan.

Hovik (00:00:38):

I'm in Yerevan. Asbed Bedrossian is in Los Angeles.

Hovik (00:00:41):

We're glad that you have found the show and glad that you're listening.

Hovik (00:00:45):

and it shows us that you trust us and you find this interesting uh do us a favor

Hovik (00:00:50):

right now and make sure that you're subscribed we see a lot of new uh people but

Hovik (00:00:55):

they don't end up subscribing so wherever the button is on your screen make sure

Hovik (00:01:00):

you're subscribed that's number one thing you can do to support us right now thanks

Hovik (00:01:04):

to all the folks who have chosen to support us financially in the past

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That means a lot to us,

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and we aim to reach a level where we can find the help we need to free our time

Hovik (00:01:14):

from tedious chores like editing and post-production,

Hovik (00:01:18):

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So to help us do that, go to podcasts.groong.org and become a sustaining member.

Hovik (00:01:30):

Thanks in advance, folks.

Hovik (00:01:31):

We have Matt coming on in just a second, so on to the show.

Asbed (00:01:35):

Captain Matthew Ho, welcome back to the Groong Podcast.

Matthew (00:01:39):

Thanks for having me back on, guys.

Hovik (00:01:40):

Great to have you.

Asbed (00:01:42):

So we talked a month before Trump's inauguration.

Asbed (00:01:46):

There was much hope for the federal government to turn its attention to America

Asbed (00:01:50):

first, take care of Americans and drop the forever wars and dreams of a global empire.

Asbed (00:01:56):

He would get Ukraine fixed in one day,

Asbed (00:01:59):

Gaza a couple of months later,

Asbed (00:02:00):

deal with inflation,

Asbed (00:02:01):

economy,

Asbed (00:02:02):

affordability.

Asbed (00:02:04):

But fast forward 10 months later,

Asbed (00:02:05):

we have Ukraine,

Asbed (00:02:07):

Gaza,

Asbed (00:02:08):

Venezuela,

Asbed (00:02:09):

Argentina,

Asbed (00:02:10):

TRIPP in Armenia and on and on.

Asbed (00:02:13):

And I'm sure everyone remembers Greenland and Canada as the 51st state.

Asbed (00:02:18):

And Panama, don't forget Panama was the first stop for Marco Rubio.

Asbed (00:02:21):

I even forgot that one.

Asbed (00:02:22):

Right, yeah.

Asbed (00:02:24):

But earlier this morning, Donald Trump announced that the Venezuelan airspace is closed.

Asbed (00:02:29):

In a true social post, he wrote to all airlines, pilots, drug dealers and human traffickers.

Asbed (00:02:34):

This is one group, I guess, pilots, airline pilots and human drug traffickers.

Asbed (00:02:41):

Please consider the airspace above and surrounding Venezuela to be closed in its entirety.

Asbed (00:02:46):

This has led analysts to warn that an attack may be imminent.

Asbed (00:02:50):

And The Intercept also reports that it has reviewed War Department documents outlining U.S.

Asbed (00:02:55):

logistics planning for a Caribbean buildup through 2028.

Asbed (00:03:00):

So explain us.

Asbed (00:03:01):

What's your take on these developments?

Asbed (00:03:02):

What's the geopolitical strategy or reasoning driving Washington towards something

Asbed (00:03:07):

like this in Venezuela?

Matthew (00:03:09):

I think, and again, thank you for having me back on with you guys.

Matthew (00:03:13):

I think there are multiple reasons.

Matthew (00:03:14):

A lot of times there's an intersection of desires that make it such a goal is going

Matthew (00:03:24):

to be enjoyed by multiple groups,

Matthew (00:03:27):

even if those groups are disparate.

Matthew (00:03:29):

So if you look in Venezuela,

Matthew (00:03:31):

you see this confluence,

Matthew (00:03:33):

you see this intertwining or this dovetailing.

Matthew (00:03:35):

Of course, the first major interest is that Venezuela has the world's largest oil reserves.

Matthew (00:03:42):

You know, I mean, I don't think we really have to elaborate on what that means,

Matthew (00:03:45):

but certainly we've seen that commentary in the last weeks,

Matthew (00:03:49):

including from,

Matthew (00:03:50):

you know,

Matthew (00:03:51):

Representative Salazar,

Matthew (00:03:52):

who is the third or fourth ranking Republican in the US House,

Matthew (00:03:56):

you know, saying that this will be a field day for the American oil companies in Venezuela,

Matthew (00:04:00):

you know,

Matthew (00:04:01):

I mean, so.

Matthew (00:04:02):

You know, they're not even trying to hide that.

Matthew (00:04:06):

You know, there are other interests as well.

Matthew (00:04:08):

There are just the old neoconservative interests at play here,

Matthew (00:04:12):

this idea that the United States has to exert dominance.

Matthew (00:04:16):

This is a latent aspect of the United States as the sole superpower,

Matthew (00:04:21):

the idea that emerges after the Cold War.

Matthew (00:04:23):

that any threat to American supremacy must be destroyed.

Matthew (00:04:29):

And that's something that each president since the end of the Cold War has firmly embraced.

Matthew (00:04:33):

Trump has his own take on it,

Matthew (00:04:35):

which is why the establishment,

Matthew (00:04:37):

the foreign policy establishment is often very critical of him and doesn't trust

Matthew (00:04:41):

him.

Matthew (00:04:42):

And many of them want him out for that reason.

Matthew (00:04:44):

John Bolton, I think, being the best example of that.

Matthew (00:04:47):

But, you know, there are other reasons as well.

Matthew (00:04:49):

You have personal reasons.

Matthew (00:04:51):

So Marco Rubio is obsessed with Venezuela.

Matthew (00:04:54):

He is obsessed with Latin America in general.

Matthew (00:04:58):

He has a personal story that comes from his parents fleeing Cuba,

Matthew (00:05:03):

not incidentally from Castro's Cuba,

Matthew (00:05:07):

but from the dictator Batista's Cuba.

Matthew (00:05:09):

But still, he has this obsession with

Matthew (00:05:12):

with Venezuela and Latin America in general.

Matthew (00:05:16):

There are grand strategy reasons for this.

Matthew (00:05:19):

In the last couple of decades,

Matthew (00:05:21):

you've seen China make enormous inroads in Latin America,

Matthew (00:05:25):

both Central and South America,

Matthew (00:05:27):

to the point now that many South American and Central American companies

Matthew (00:05:32):

Their largest trading partner or possibly soon to be their largest trading partner

Matthew (00:05:36):

is China,

Matthew (00:05:37):

not the United States.

Matthew (00:05:38):

This is a real difficult thing for the Americans to accept this idea of a larger scale.

Matthew (00:05:44):

Right. Globally, China cutting in on America's good thing.

Matthew (00:05:48):

When you're the sole superpower, you've got it well.

Matthew (00:05:51):

Right. And one of the best things about being the sole superpower is that you sit on top

Matthew (00:05:55):

of a world that's yours to extract from.

Matthew (00:05:57):

And so this idea of this rising power,

Matthew (00:06:00):

this competitor, China,

Matthew (00:06:01):

possibly taking part of a,

Matthew (00:06:03):

taking some or taking from the Americans,

Matthew (00:06:05):

you know,

Matthew (00:06:06):

that's something that can't be abided.

Matthew (00:06:07):

I mean, so there's all these different reasons, you know, just the affront.

Matthew (00:06:11):

If you're the world's sole superpower, you can't have particularly someone in your society

Matthew (00:06:15):

traditional sphere of influence,

Matthew (00:06:18):

Central and South America,

Matthew (00:06:19):

thumbing their nose at the American empire,

Matthew (00:06:21):

at the American government.

Matthew (00:06:22):

For that reason alone,

Matthew (00:06:24):

many feel they have to remove Maduro from power because you can't have this type of

Matthew (00:06:29):

insolence. You can't have this type of...

Matthew (00:06:33):

Independence.

Matthew (00:06:34):

Independence.

Matthew (00:06:35):

Exactly right.

Matthew (00:06:36):

You know, that's exactly right.

Matthew (00:06:37):

I mean,

Matthew (00:06:38):

so you see all these reasons why,

Matthew (00:06:41):

you know,

Matthew (00:06:42):

it makes sense that Venezuela has become the major target for the United States in

Matthew (00:06:49):

terms of its war making in this,

Matthew (00:06:51):

you know,

Matthew (00:06:52):

first year of the Trump administration.

Hovik (00:06:54):

But nevertheless, was it the only choice that the U.S.

Hovik (00:06:57):

had in terms of dealing with Venezuela?

Matthew (00:07:00):

No, certainly not.

Matthew (00:07:02):

We're still to see what's going to come of it.

Matthew (00:07:08):

We're still uncertain exactly what the Americans will do.

Matthew (00:07:12):

The idea of a full-scale invasion is certainly not on a table because simply the

Matthew (00:07:16):

number of troops aren't there.

Matthew (00:07:17):

You know,

Matthew (00:07:18):

you're looking at 16 to 20,000 troops in and around Venezuela right now,

Matthew (00:07:23):

including in the Caribbean,

Matthew (00:07:24):

like in Puerto Rico.

Matthew (00:07:27):

You know, that's not nearly enough to launch a ground invasion.

Matthew (00:07:32):

You know, there's speculation that we will seize airfields and ports,

Matthew (00:07:36):

you know, and same,

Matthew (00:07:38):

you know, that idea is for what purpose?

Matthew (00:07:40):

You know, so I think the idea of large scale military operations

Matthew (00:07:45):

involving American ground troops is something that we can rule out.

Matthew (00:07:50):

But the reality is the United States has ruled that out for the last dozen years or

Matthew (00:07:56):

so, going back to the second half of the Obama administration,

Matthew (00:08:00):

the idea of putting American troops on the ground and taking casualties.

Matthew (00:08:05):

is politically unacceptable to the White Houses, whether they're Democratic or Republican.

Matthew (00:08:10):

The George W. Bush administration learned that the hard way with the elections of 06 and 08.

Matthew (00:08:16):

And the Democrats with 16 as well.

Matthew (00:08:19):

Trump's election of 16 was a predation of Hillary Clinton and the wars.

Matthew (00:08:24):

So I think the White House is savvy enough to understand that.

Matthew (00:08:29):

And so what will we see?

Matthew (00:08:31):

Will we see CIA-led operations, coup attempts?

Matthew (00:08:36):

Will we see airstrikes with drones and missiles and fighter aircraft?

Matthew (00:08:42):

We're just not certain as to what will come about.

Matthew (00:08:46):

You know, they have the assets there.

Matthew (00:08:49):

They've got the aircraft.

Matthew (00:08:51):

They've got the support aircraft.

Matthew (00:08:53):

When you start seeing things like the U.S.

Matthew (00:08:56):

military, the U.S.

Matthew (00:08:57):

Air Force sending its...

Matthew (00:09:00):

like RC-135 Rivet Joint signals intelligence aircraft places,

Matthew (00:09:04):

the Air Force only has 10 or 12 of those operationally.

Matthew (00:09:08):

So when they start moving those around, you know, it's a pretty big deal.

Matthew (00:09:11):

You know, I mean,

Matthew (00:09:12):

you start seeing other things as well,

Matthew (00:09:13):

too,

Matthew (00:09:14):

that, okay, they're taking this pretty seriously in the sense of sending the right pieces of

Matthew (00:09:20):

equipment,

Matthew (00:09:21):

aircraft,

Matthew (00:09:22):

personnel,

Matthew (00:09:23):

that if they were to carry out

Matthew (00:09:25):

such operations, they'd be able to do it in the way that they fully want to.

Matthew (00:09:30):

But I think we're just kind of stuck and we'll have to wait and see.

Matthew (00:09:33):

There's this hope that somehow a deal will be made.

Matthew (00:09:36):

Maduro and Trump supposedly spoke on the phone a week or so ago.

Matthew (00:09:40):

And, you know, there's this idea that Maduro might visit Washington, D.C.

Matthew (00:09:44):

to speak directly with Trump.

Matthew (00:09:46):

I think a lot of people looking at that say we can probably never come back.

Matthew (00:09:50):

You know, I mean, so, you know, I don't think that's probably an option.

Matthew (00:09:53):

But,

Matthew (00:09:54):

you know, I think with all that we know,

Matthew (00:09:56):

all that we understand,

Matthew (00:09:57):

all the experiences that we've lived through watching the United States carry out

Matthew (00:10:03):

its wars overseas,

Matthew (00:10:04):

I think we all really need to hope and pray that somehow there's some type of

Matthew (00:10:10):

diplomatic resolution found to this crisis and not not a military resolution that's

Matthew (00:10:16):

sought because,

Matthew (00:10:17):

you know,

Matthew (00:10:18):

it's just not Venezuela that would be affected.

Matthew (00:10:19):

It would be all of Latin America.

Matthew (00:10:22):

Yeah.

Hovik (00:10:22):

Yeah.

Hovik (00:10:23):

All right.

Hovik (00:10:24):

Shall we go to Eurasia, I guess?

Hovik (00:10:27):

It just seems there's too many hotspots around the world.

Hovik (00:10:33):

Matt, so earlier this week,

Hovik (00:10:35):

we read that the United States Army Secretary,

Hovik (00:10:39):

Dan Driscoll,

Hovik (00:10:40):

was in Kyiv.

Hovik (00:10:43):

And he gave the Ukrainians a stark warning.

Hovik (00:10:46):

He told them about,

Hovik (00:10:48):

quote,

Hovik (00:10:49):

imminent defeat,

Hovik (00:10:50):

and that the situation would only get worse as time went on.

Hovik (00:10:54):

Yet, when I was researching for this podcast, I did a quick search on YouTube.

Hovik (00:10:59):

for Ukraine war.

Hovik (00:11:01):

And I'd like to read some of the top results that popped up,

Hovik (00:11:04):

all having near unanimous tone to them.

Hovik (00:11:07):

The military show channel said, Ukraine destroys Russian warship.

Hovik (00:11:11):

Putin's Navy retreats in total panic.

Hovik (00:11:14):

Canal 13, I'm assuming it has a Ukrainian channel.

Hovik (00:11:17):

Ukraine launches U.S.

Hovik (00:11:18):

GBU-62 bombs at Russian infantry's gathering point.

Hovik (00:11:22):

Invaders are eliminated.

Hovik (00:11:24):

So forth and so on.

Hovik (00:11:26):

No news about Driscoll's warning.

Hovik (00:11:28):

So we want to ask, is Russia collapsing militarily and economically?

Hovik (00:11:34):

And it's just a matter of time before Putin swallows the cyanide pill as Zelensky

Hovik (00:11:39):

leads the infantry to Moscow.

Hovik (00:11:42):

Marches into Moscow.

Matthew (00:11:45):

Right, right.

Matthew (00:11:46):

I mean, that certainly has been the popular narrative in the Western media for the last

Matthew (00:11:54):

almost four years now.

Matthew (00:11:58):

This constant refrain that...

Matthew (00:12:01):

It's just a matter of more money and more time and Russia will lose,

Matthew (00:12:06):

that they'll collapse,

Matthew (00:12:07):

that the Russian people will be so upset by the war,

Matthew (00:12:09):

they'll overthrow Putin,

Matthew (00:12:11):

you know, there'll be a coup because people,

Matthew (00:12:13):

you know, the government has failed,

Matthew (00:12:14):

you know,

Matthew (00:12:15):

on and on and on with the various...

Matthew (00:12:17):

explanations and predictions of what's just bound to occur if people just have more

Matthew (00:12:22):

faith, if people don't give up hope,

Matthew (00:12:24):

if people just aren't weak,

Matthew (00:12:25):

or they just stop accepting their funding from the Kremlin,

Matthew (00:12:30):

you know, which...

Matthew (00:12:31):

So...

Matthew (00:12:35):

you know, certainly Russia's not in that position.

Matthew (00:12:37):

The Russians have, they prepared for this war very well.

Matthew (00:12:42):

They were in a position where they knew they were going to be isolated or there

Matthew (00:12:49):

would be an attempt to isolate them.

Matthew (00:12:51):

And so they understood how the West was going to react to this war and the Russians

Matthew (00:12:55):

prepared themselves for it.

Matthew (00:12:56):

I think that

Matthew (00:12:57):

over everything else is their greatest success in this war.

Matthew (00:13:02):

Both the flexibility of their mindset,

Matthew (00:13:04):

the Russians,

Matthew (00:13:05):

to look for other partners in the world,

Matthew (00:13:08):

to look for other trading relationships in the world,

Matthew (00:13:10):

to reimagine and have confidence in their economy that they could survive the

Matthew (00:13:15):

harshest sanctions program the world has ever seen,

Matthew (00:13:18):

and

Matthew (00:13:19):

And not just survive it, but to have success from it.

Matthew (00:13:26):

Right.

Matthew (00:13:28):

To what we see in the Russian economy that has grown.

Matthew (00:13:32):

over these years of war.

Matthew (00:13:34):

Their domestic industries have stepped up to fill the gaps from these Western

Matthew (00:13:40):

sanctions, from the Western blockade.

Matthew (00:13:42):

You've seen them find other partners around the world for all of their commodities,

Matthew (00:13:48):

all of their exports,

Matthew (00:13:50):

most notably oil and gas.

Matthew (00:13:52):

And the gas that used to go to Europe is now going to go to China.

Matthew (00:13:56):

And that gas is never going to return to Europe.

Matthew (00:13:59):

You know,

Matthew (00:14:00):

I mean, in and on the battlefield,

Matthew (00:14:01):

you've seen certainly the Russians be able to withstand the weight of Western

Matthew (00:14:09):

support for Ukraine.

Matthew (00:14:12):

The Russian battle plans,

Matthew (00:14:14):

I think, are confusing to many,

Matthew (00:14:16):

but they seem not as interested as territorial advancement.

Matthew (00:14:21):

as just trying to destroy every piece of kit,

Matthew (00:14:24):

every weapon,

Matthew (00:14:26):

every piece of equipment,

Matthew (00:14:27):

vehicle,

Matthew (00:14:28):

et cetera,

Matthew (00:14:29):

that the Ukrainians bring to the front.

Matthew (00:14:31):

So just fighting a war of attrition where the Russians correctly surmised that

Matthew (00:14:36):

their industrial capacity would be stronger than the collective West's industrial

Matthew (00:14:41):

capacity.

Matthew (00:14:42):

And they were right.

Matthew (00:14:43):

And then I think the most important, I just said,

Matthew (00:14:47):

Industrial development and their economic plan was the most important,

Matthew (00:14:50):

but equally important as well,

Matthew (00:14:52):

I think,

Matthew (00:14:53):

has been the fact that the Russian generals have defeated the American generals,

Matthew (00:14:59):

that the big arrow movements of the Ukrainian army,

Matthew (00:15:03):

as we know from reporting by The New York Times,

Matthew (00:15:06):

nonetheless,

Matthew (00:15:07):

have come from the Americans.

Matthew (00:15:10):

that the Americans based in Wiesbaden,

Matthew (00:15:13):

Germany,

Matthew (00:15:14):

where the Americans set the headquarters to run this war,

Matthew (00:15:17):

the Americans have been in charge of the major operational moves of the Ukrainian

Matthew (00:15:22):

army.

Matthew (00:15:23):

And so in terms of who was fighting who at the general level,

Matthew (00:15:27):

essentially,

Matthew (00:15:28):

this was the Americans fighting the Russians,

Matthew (00:15:31):

the Russians utilizing their own forces as well,

Matthew (00:15:33):

and the Americans using

Matthew (00:15:34):

proxy Ukrainian forces.

Matthew (00:15:36):

And I think anyone who looks at this now says,

Matthew (00:15:38):

particularly with the spectacular disasters of several Ukrainian campaigns,

Matthew (00:15:44):

most notably the summer or spring,

Matthew (00:15:47):

summer 2023 offensive campaign,

Matthew (00:15:50):

that the Russian generals defeated the American generals.

Matthew (00:15:52):

So, I mean,

Matthew (00:15:53):

so that's my estimation of the war in terms of the power balance,

Matthew (00:16:00):

in terms of who's,

Matthew (00:16:03):

quote,

Matthew (00:16:04):

winning, unquote.

Matthew (00:16:05):

There's other winners in this war,

Matthew (00:16:06):

other losers,

Matthew (00:16:07):

you know, certainly when you look at the pullback,

Matthew (00:16:10):

look at the larger geopolitical commercial aspects of this.

Matthew (00:16:15):

Certainly the American and Qatari

Matthew (00:16:18):

Gas companies are winners because they're the ones who got the market for gas in

Matthew (00:16:25):

Europe when the Russians were forced out,

Matthew (00:16:28):

both by sanctions as well as by the destruction of the Nord Stream pipeline.

Matthew (00:16:32):

So there have been winners in the West,

Matthew (00:16:34):

the weapons companies,

Matthew (00:16:35):

of course,

Matthew (00:16:36):

who have years upon years of backlogs and running in tens of billions of dollars

Matthew (00:16:42):

for orders for Ukraine as well as for European countries.

Matthew (00:16:46):

countries that want to expand their militaries.

Matthew (00:16:50):

So there have been some winners in the West as well.

Matthew (00:16:53):

But certainly as we look at this,

Matthew (00:16:54):

we've seen that Russia is the one who is in the dominant position right now.

Hovik (00:17:00):

So the most rational,

Hovik (00:17:01):

I mean,

Hovik (00:17:02):

from what you're describing,

Hovik (00:17:03):

the most rational decision would be to sit down and come up with a negotiated

Hovik (00:17:08):

solution to this.

Hovik (00:17:09):

But we've been seeing a lot of challenges to it,

Hovik (00:17:12):

especially some of the hawks in the US administration and US Congress,

Hovik (00:17:17):

but also Europeans.

Hovik (00:17:19):

Nevertheless,

Hovik (00:17:22):

There was a 28-point proposal, then became a 19-point.

Hovik (00:17:25):

I lost count how many points there are now, currently.

Hovik (00:17:29):

But good news,

Hovik (00:17:31):

I guess maybe it's good news that Witkoff is visiting Moscow,

Hovik (00:17:35):

Kremlin, next week for negotiations.

Hovik (00:17:38):

But ahead of that visit, Putin doubled down on his territorial conditions.

Hovik (00:17:43):

He essentially said that he would only stop fighting if Ukraine withdrew.

Hovik (00:17:47):

At the same time,

Hovik (00:17:48):

Ukraine's chief negotiator,

Hovik (00:17:49):

Andrei Yermak,

Hovik (00:17:51):

also ruled out any territorial concessions.

Hovik (00:17:53):

So,

Hovik (00:17:54):

you know, with all this jockeying,

Hovik (00:17:57):

I guess, or positioning,

Hovik (00:17:59):

what is the prospect of Russia and at least the U.S.

Hovik (00:18:02):

achieving or coming close to some kind of a concord next week?

Matthew (00:18:08):

Yeah, you know, honestly, it's tough to, you know, be predictive here, right?

Matthew (00:18:18):

how steadfast,

Matthew (00:18:20):

how firm both sides have been in their goals or objectives or demands of this war.

Matthew (00:18:26):

And certainly, I think objectively, you can understand both.

Matthew (00:18:31):

Whether or not politically it's possible for them to...

Matthew (00:18:36):

negotiate, whether it's to compromise on those demands is something we'll see.

Matthew (00:18:42):

I mean,

Matthew (00:18:43):

the Ukrainian government is so weak right now,

Matthew (00:18:45):

particularly with this corruption scandal,

Matthew (00:18:47):

where it was bad enough that two ministers were dismissed.

Matthew (00:18:53):

But now the chief of staff,

Matthew (00:18:54):

who is popularly known as the other president of Ukraine,

Matthew (00:18:58):

Andrei Yermak,

Matthew (00:18:59):

is

Matthew (00:19:00):

you know, implicated as well.

Matthew (00:19:01):

And so the ability of the Zelensky government to carry out negotiations and to

Matthew (00:19:09):

give, to compromise,

Matthew (00:19:11):

right, to forget about the sacrifices of all the hundreds of thousands who have given

Matthew (00:19:16):

their lives and limbs and minds and souls to this war,

Matthew (00:19:19):

is that possible for him?

Matthew (00:19:21):

You know, the reality of, say, a coup occurring where the far right is

Matthew (00:19:26):

in Ukraine to pose of Zelensky with the backing from the Europeans and many

Matthew (00:19:32):

Americans because they don't want to see capitulation,

Matthew (00:19:35):

that's not very far-fetched,

Matthew (00:19:37):

right? I mean, so,

Matthew (00:19:38):

and then on the Russian side as well,

Matthew (00:19:40):

when you have most of the political pressure,

Matthew (00:19:43):

or I should say most,

Matthew (00:19:44):

nearly all the political pressure that's been on Vladimir Putin during this war has

Matthew (00:19:48):

come from his right.

Matthew (00:19:49):

You know,

Matthew (00:19:50):

I think a lot of people in the West would be astonished to understand that Putin is

Matthew (00:19:54):

essentially a moderate when we're talking about these types of things.

Matthew (00:19:57):

And almost all the pressure comes from his right in the sense,

Matthew (00:20:01):

you know,

Matthew (00:20:02):

from nationalists,

Matthew (00:20:03):

essentially, who say you're not prosecuting this war hard enough.

Matthew (00:20:06):

You're being too easy on the Ukrainians.

Matthew (00:20:08):

Why haven't we won this already?

Matthew (00:20:10):

Right.

Matthew (00:20:11):

So and you go back and look at the great sacrifices of the Russians as well.

Matthew (00:20:15):

Hundreds of thousands of their men have lost their lives, their limbs.

Matthew (00:20:20):

their minds, their souls,

Matthew (00:20:21):

as well as the pronouncements of the Russian government,

Matthew (00:20:25):

including from the president himself,

Matthew (00:20:26):

about the need to denazify and fully demilitarize Ukraine to make sure this threat

Matthew (00:20:33):

cannot come at them again.

Matthew (00:20:35):

plus the writing into Russian law, the acquisition of all four provinces or oblasts.

Matthew (00:20:42):

And this doesn't even get into the whole issue of,

Matthew (00:20:45):

you know, the main thing about this was our national security.

Matthew (00:20:48):

This doesn't remove American missiles from Poland and Romania.

Matthew (00:20:53):

I mean,

Matthew (00:20:54):

so is this a compromise that Putin can make where the political pressure on for him

Matthew (00:20:59):

is full victory and nothing else?

Matthew (00:21:02):

And how come you haven't accomplished that already?

Matthew (00:21:04):

Right. I mean, so the political forces at play here in both countries are not in any way lined up

Matthew (00:21:11):

to see a successful resolution through negotiation.

Matthew (00:21:18):

And you have any of other complicating factors.

Matthew (00:21:20):

The Europeans are simply.

Matthew (00:21:23):

pretty much dead set against this for matters of their own political identity,

Matthew (00:21:27):

for their own aspirations,

Matthew (00:21:29):

for their own beliefs in the necessity of this proxy war.

Matthew (00:21:32):

And just like you have many Americans,

Matthew (00:21:33):

you know,

Matthew (00:21:34):

Mitch McConnell, Lindsey Graham,

Matthew (00:21:35):

Richard Blumenthal,

Matthew (00:21:37):

certainly if this does go through,

Matthew (00:21:39):

you will see a re-ignition in the U.S.

Matthew (00:21:41):

of Russia-gate.

Matthew (00:21:43):

hysteria, Russia-gate accusations against Donald Trump, his appeasement of Russia.

Matthew (00:21:49):

You've already seen it, but if it was to go through.

Matthew (00:21:51):

So politically,

Matthew (00:21:52):

this is going to be a very difficult thing to pull off for anyone involved in this.

Matthew (00:22:01):

But the alternative then is for the war to continue and for Ukraine to lose more land.

Matthew (00:22:08):

uh you know for the Ukrainian government to eventually be lost in a collapse a

Matthew (00:22:11):

military an economic or a political collapse the uh Ukraine is a failed state etc

Matthew (00:22:17):

etc and i'll also say for the russians as well yes the russians do have the

Matthew (00:22:21):

dominant hammer right now the russians are quote winning unquote right now but this

Matthew (00:22:26):

idea of having certainty in warfare is belied by the reality of warfare if anyone

Matthew (00:22:31):

thinks

Matthew (00:22:32):

that war is going to go the way you expect it to,

Matthew (00:22:36):

or war will be your agent and not its agent,

Matthew (00:22:40):

just simply hasn't studied war.

Matthew (00:22:42):

And so I would caution the Russians that,

Matthew (00:22:44):

yes,

Matthew (00:22:45):

it's going well now,

Matthew (00:22:46):

you are dominating now,

Matthew (00:22:47):

you have the advantage now,

Matthew (00:22:49):

but in two,

Matthew (00:22:50):

three, four years' time,

Matthew (00:22:52):

There's no certainty to that.

Matthew (00:22:53):

So I would encourage the Russians as well to take this deal.

Matthew (00:22:56):

But like you said, Hovic, I don't even know what this deal looks like right now.

Matthew (00:23:01):

You know, what they're actually, how many points are there, you know, all of that.

Matthew (00:23:05):

So we'll have to see.

Asbed (00:23:06):

Actually, when I was looking at the 20,

Asbed (00:23:08):

24,

(00:23:18):

28 point plan,

Asbed (00:23:10):

one thing stuck out to me is that they were saying the West will acknowledge the de

Asbed (00:23:15):

facto control of Russia over these places.

Asbed (00:23:18):

And I thought that's dead on arrival because,

Asbed (00:23:21):

I mean,

Asbed (00:23:23):

they wanted to be legally part of Russia,

Asbed (00:23:26):

not de facto.

Asbed (00:23:27):

Aspet, are you part of the Russia, right?

Asbed (00:23:30):

Sorry. Yeah.

Asbed (00:23:31):

Well, I just don't see.

Asbed (00:23:34):

Okay, well, I don't see how Putin is going to accept that.

Asbed (00:23:36):

Right, no, exactly.

Matthew (00:23:38):

I mean, I think that's a thing we get to, too.

Matthew (00:23:41):

It's so hard.

Matthew (00:23:42):

It's because you were bringing up,

Matthew (00:23:43):

Hovec,

Matthew (00:23:44):

Earl, when you first asked this question about going through the YouTube channels.

Matthew (00:23:47):

And it's a lack of objectivity here.

Matthew (00:23:49):

Right. I mean,

Matthew (00:23:50):

the lack of the ability to have any kind of strategic empathy or cognitive empathy,

Matthew (00:23:55):

right, for all sides in this to put yourselves in the Russian shoes and try and approach

Matthew (00:24:01):

this from that worldview and try to determine how,

Matthew (00:24:05):

you know,

Matthew (00:24:06):

I mean, this is this is not anything that should be scandalous,

Matthew (00:24:09):

but that's the state of Western media is that if you if you try and advance an

Matthew (00:24:15):

objective view based on your analysis and understanding

Matthew (00:24:18):

of one party's needs or desires or actions, you're accused of being a booster.

Matthew (00:24:26):

You're accused of being on their payroll.

Matthew (00:24:29):

You're abused of carrying for their agenda.

Matthew (00:24:32):

And that's just nonsense.

Hovik (00:24:33):

We frequently, even when we try to be objective and just reason about it, we get accused.

Hovik (00:24:39):

So let me ask you one more quick question about Ukraine.

Hovik (00:24:43):

um so i mean there are multiple scenarios obviously you went through some of them

Hovik (00:24:47):

uh i don't want to go through all of them but it seems to me i mean uh like in all

Hovik (00:24:52):

cases it seems like the military gears continue will continue to uh turn but what

Hovik (00:24:58):

happens if there's some kind of a agreement between moscow and washington dc but

Hovik (00:25:06):

Ukraine and Europeans don't agree.

Hovik (00:25:09):

And what does that look like?

Hovik (00:25:11):

You know, because we've heard these scenarios where Trump wants to pull out.

Hovik (00:25:15):

So he's going to stop intelligence support or there are some other like,

Hovik (00:25:18):

you know,

Hovik (00:25:19):

predictions being made.

Hovik (00:25:20):

Do you see that as one of the more likely scenarios?

Hovik (00:25:23):

What do you think about that?

Matthew (00:25:24):

I think it's a very possible scenario where Donald Trump says,

Matthew (00:25:28):

OK, you know,

Matthew (00:25:29):

a pox on everyone involved here.

Matthew (00:25:32):

I'm washing my hands of this, the United States is out.

Matthew (00:25:36):

At that point,

Matthew (00:25:37):

Moscow feels that it has the ability to further persecute this war and actually see

Matthew (00:25:44):

some form of capitulation by Ukraine because of the battlefield or because of

Matthew (00:25:50):

economic or political collapse.

Matthew (00:25:52):

I don't know why the Russians would want that, because then you're talking about

Matthew (00:25:58):

That's one aspect.

Matthew (00:25:59):

The farther west the Russians go, the more they're moving into Ukrainian-speaking lands.

Matthew (00:26:04):

Just to put this in really simple terms, right?

Matthew (00:26:06):

Because I know it's more complicated than that.

Matthew (00:26:08):

And so then they risk, exactly, being occupiers and having insurgency.

Matthew (00:26:12):

The Russians have never stated that they've wanted anything more

Matthew (00:26:16):

than the four provinces in which they've been fighting.

Matthew (00:26:19):

They've been talking about buffer zones and things like that,

Matthew (00:26:22):

but nothing ever that you can really point to and say,

Matthew (00:26:25):

this actually is a Russian goal.

Matthew (00:26:28):

So their goals have been those four provinces or oblasts in the east.

Matthew (00:26:34):

And so the idea of going past that,

Matthew (00:26:35):

well,

Matthew (00:26:36):

now they're moving into a whole aspect of this war that they didn't want,

Matthew (00:26:41):

that was never their goal.

Matthew (00:26:43):

And then the idea of having to take it all the way to the Polish and Romanian borders.

Matthew (00:26:49):

And would Ukraine even last that long or would it collapse?

Matthew (00:26:52):

And then if it collapses,

Matthew (00:26:53):

you have millions of refugees going throughout Europe,

Matthew (00:26:57):

including into Russia.

Matthew (00:26:59):

And then you have, what are the Poles and the Romanians going to do?

Matthew (00:27:02):

Are they going to sit and watch as the Russian armies come across Ukraine?

Matthew (00:27:06):

Or are they going to advance into Ukraine themselves?

Matthew (00:27:09):

for a whole bunch of reasons.

Matthew (00:27:11):

I mean, you can see that,

Matthew (00:27:12):

how this becomes a nightmare scenario in a bunch of different ways,

Matthew (00:27:15):

how this bloke goes into World War III,

Matthew (00:27:19):

true World War III stages here.

Asbed (00:27:22):

Preamble, sort of, yeah.

Matthew (00:27:23):

Exactly, yeah, thank you, right?

Matthew (00:27:24):

You know,

Matthew (00:27:25):

I mean, so that's,

Matthew (00:27:28):

I think, one example of the danger if the United States pulls out of this.

Matthew (00:27:33):

But the reality is, I think that,

Matthew (00:27:36):

The way the Europeans and the Ukrainians will look at it is that our best bet,

Matthew (00:27:40):

though,

Matthew (00:27:41):

is for us to wait this out.

Matthew (00:27:45):

Hopefully in 26, the Democrats will take both the House and the Senate.

Matthew (00:27:50):

There's enough Republican support for this that maybe we can get aid from the United States.

Matthew (00:27:55):

through to us overriding a Trump veto on this,

Matthew (00:27:59):

or Trump is willing to change his mind enough that maybe he will allow aid to come

Matthew (00:28:06):

back,

Matthew (00:28:07):

and that we can then win,

Matthew (00:28:09):

the Democrats win the election in 28,

Matthew (00:28:11):

or we get a Republican neoconservative,

Matthew (00:28:14):

which there are plenty,

Matthew (00:28:16):

not J.D. Vance,

Matthew (00:28:17):

but we get somebody else,

Matthew (00:28:18):

like a Marco Rubio,

Matthew (00:28:19):

who wins the election in 28,

Matthew (00:28:21):

and then we're back in business with this war.

Matthew (00:28:23):

And I think that's the estimation that the Ukrainians and the Europeans will make,

Matthew (00:28:29):

that that is a better thing to shoot for,

Matthew (00:28:32):

that that hope is better than the reality of accepting a defeat.

Matthew (00:28:39):

And so the danger here is so,

Matthew (00:28:42):

so great that this could get much worse than even what we've been seeing.

Asbed (00:28:46):

Well,

Asbed (00:28:47):

OK, let me turn our attention to another conflict where Trump is campaigning for his

Asbed (00:28:52):

Nobel Peace Prize, because his 20-point peace plan sets the frame for a Gaza

Asbed (00:28:59):

ceasefire, and phase one produced a hostage and detainee swap and a partial Israeli

Asbed (00:29:03):

pullback from Gaza.

Asbed (00:29:05):

Phase two calls for Hamas to disarm and for a UN-backed international stabilization

Asbed (00:29:12):

force, the ISF,

Asbed (00:29:13):

to take over security.

Asbed (00:29:15):

And for a new technocratic authority, they're calling it the Board of Peace.

Asbed (00:29:20):

Orwell would be very proud of this, to run Gaza.

Asbed (00:29:24):

Right.

Asbed (00:29:26):

The truce remains shaky.

Asbed (00:29:28):

Settler violence and rapid settlement growth in the West Bank now threatened to

Asbed (00:29:32):

break this peace process.

Asbed (00:29:34):

But also the ICC,

Asbed (00:29:37):

the International Criminal Court,

Asbed (00:29:38):

has issued arrest warrants for leaders on both sides,

Asbed (00:29:41):

including Netanyahu and senior Hamas figures.

Asbed (00:29:44):

The plan has ramped up a split inside Trump's MAGA and America First base.

Asbed (00:29:50):

Many believe Trump's pledge to end foreign wars is being pulled off course by the

Asbed (00:29:55):

same globalist and neocon networks that they view as responsible for past

Asbed (00:30:00):

interventions.

Asbed (00:30:01):

And they see the ISF,

Asbed (00:30:02):

the governance plan,

Asbed (00:30:04):

the population transfer plans as a return to nation building and forced engineering

Asbed (00:30:08):

of societies that they were hoping to leave behind.

Asbed (00:30:12):

What is Trump's endgame in Gaza?

Matthew (00:30:16):

I think there's a few different things at play here that the U.S.

Matthew (00:30:20):

government, the Trump administration is reaching for.

Matthew (00:30:23):

One, it's to honor its commitments to its Israeli allies, right?

Matthew (00:30:26):

Whether that be its political donors, like Miriam Adelson, who has given

Matthew (00:30:31):

her and her late husband,

Matthew (00:30:33):

$600 million to Donald Trump and Republican Party in the last three presidential

Matthew (00:30:37):

election cycles.

Matthew (00:30:38):

You know, it's the relationship that many in the administration maintain with Israel directly.

Matthew (00:30:48):

The fact that many in Trump's government are committed Zionists.

Matthew (00:30:53):

They really do believe in the idea of a

Matthew (00:31:00):

Israeli state for the purposes of jewish supremacy but also as well this idea of

Matthew (00:31:10):

Israel first is equivalent to America First that the united states needs israel as

Matthew (00:31:15):

Richard Nixon called it to be their sheriff in the middle east i mean so you see

Matthew (00:31:20):

again just like in Venezuela a combination of reasons coming together a combination

Matthew (00:31:25):

of rationales or desires

Matthew (00:31:27):

that drives this type of commitment.

Matthew (00:31:29):

I think for Donald Trump as well,

Matthew (00:31:31):

there are other things that are at stake here,

Matthew (00:31:35):

the Nobel Peace Prize.

Matthew (00:31:37):

I mean, this is ridiculous that we have to bring this up,

Matthew (00:31:40):

that we have to talk about this seriously.

Matthew (00:31:42):

But this man's need obsession, right?

Matthew (00:31:48):

The idea that Barack Obama had a Nobel Peace Prize,

Matthew (00:31:51):

I have to have one,

Matthew (00:31:52):

whatever it is that's really driving him,

Matthew (00:31:55):

is something that's real.

Matthew (00:31:56):

It's something that we have to take into account.

Matthew (00:31:58):

I mean, that is fantastical.

Matthew (00:32:00):

That is infuriating.

Matthew (00:32:01):

That is,

Matthew (00:32:02):

I think,

Matthew (00:32:03):

you talk about,

Matthew (00:32:04):

you know,

Matthew (00:32:05):

you need a guy,

Matthew (00:32:06):

you need a writer,

Matthew (00:32:08):

you need to combine an Orwell with Gore Vidal,

Matthew (00:32:11):

right? with Oscar Wilde to put together something like this, right?

Matthew (00:32:15):

And this is what we have here.

Matthew (00:32:17):

But then there's also two other less noble reasons, if you will, more transactional.

Matthew (00:32:24):

I think the Trump administration sees this as a commercial opportunity.

Matthew (00:32:32):

The fact that these efforts are led by his billionaire real estate friend,

Matthew (00:32:37):

Steve Witkoff,

Matthew (00:32:38):

as well as his son-in-law,

Matthew (00:32:39):

Jared Kushner,

Matthew (00:32:40):

And particularly on Kushner's tongue,

Matthew (00:32:44):

coming out of his mouth all the time,

Matthew (00:32:46):

is the idea of this reconstruction of Gaza,

Matthew (00:32:49):

this development of Gaza, whether it be...

Asbed (00:32:50):

As a Middle Eastern Riviera.

Matthew (00:32:54):

Exactly, a Trump Riviera.

Matthew (00:32:56):

But it's more than just like the

Matthew (00:32:58):

Trump resorts and the towers and the condos and the casinos or whatever.

Matthew (00:33:02):

It's also,

Matthew (00:33:03):

too, now we're going to pull in the Elon Musk and,

Matthew (00:33:06):

you know, with his he's going to build electric vehicles there.

Matthew (00:33:09):

And Larry Allison is going to fund AI data centers.

Matthew (00:33:13):

Right.

Matthew (00:33:14):

So you see this new Gaza, as they call it, as really this 21st century hellscape.

Matthew (00:33:25):

of technology, AI, profit, et cetera.

Matthew (00:33:29):

Because you even hear things along the lines that there will be no currency in

Matthew (00:33:33):

Gaza, it will be a digital currency,

Matthew (00:33:35):

right? So all the fantasies of those who were sitting in the,

Matthew (00:33:41):

you know, had the prime seats behind Donald Trump at the inauguration,

Matthew (00:33:45):

all those tech giants,

Matthew (00:33:46):

you're seeing their fantasies,

Matthew (00:33:48):

their fever dreams possibly coming to fruition.

Matthew (00:33:52):

And, you know,

Matthew (00:33:55):

What can you say?

Matthew (00:33:56):

This has been the history of the Palestinian people.

Asbed (00:33:58):

You were saying that less noble reasons.

Asbed (00:34:01):

That's very important to me.

Asbed (00:34:03):

Are America's national interests served here?

Asbed (00:34:07):

Is Trump achieving American national interests or are they his personal interests?

Matthew (00:34:13):

Both in the sense of his own profit lining his own pocket.

Matthew (00:34:17):

Again, this idea of the Trump Riviera, right?

Matthew (00:34:19):

And that's no secret.

Matthew (00:34:21):

But as well as the...

Matthew (00:34:25):

national interests of the American establishment of the American empire,

Matthew (00:34:29):

this idea of having this Western colony that is Israel in the Middle East.

Matthew (00:34:36):

I mean, you go back to the 1930s when the British governor general of Jerusalem

Matthew (00:34:40):

says what we are doing here with the British mandate,

Matthew (00:34:44):

what we are doing here in Palestine is establishing a loyal Jewish ulster in the

Matthew (00:34:49):

midst of potentially hostile sea of Arabs,

Matthew (00:34:52):

right? I mean, so the idea of Israel as a colonial project is not anything new and it shouldn't be

Matthew (00:34:57):

anything controversial.

Matthew (00:35:00):

And so you have this idea of American interests then continuing to work through Israel.

Matthew (00:35:05):

In the past, it was called, you know, a

Matthew (00:35:11):

aircraft carrier in the Middle East, you know, as we just had the Nixon quote.

Matthew (00:35:15):

I mean, all this idea of this Western colony through Israel allows the West all types of

Matthew (00:35:23):

access,

Matthew (00:35:24):

military,

Matthew (00:35:25):

intelligent,

Matthew (00:35:26):

diplomatic,

Matthew (00:35:27):

commercial,

Matthew (00:35:28):

etc. And it's reliable because they are us.

Matthew (00:35:31):

And so I think it's a continuation of that that we're seeing there,

Matthew (00:35:34):

even though I think most of us who

Matthew (00:35:36):

look at this would say, look, Israel is a liability.

Matthew (00:35:40):

We do not get from Israel nearly what we give.

Matthew (00:35:44):

And all our military bases are not in Israel.

Matthew (00:35:47):

All our military bases are in the Arab states and the Turkish state.

Matthew (00:35:52):

They're not in Israel.

Matthew (00:35:53):

What do we need Israel for?

Matthew (00:35:55):

This is a major problem for us.

Matthew (00:35:56):

It's a liability for us.

Matthew (00:35:58):

But there are those who,

Matthew (00:36:00):

like I said, who really do believe either in Zionism or this idea that an Israel first policy is

Matthew (00:36:06):

in the best interests of the American government or the American empire.

Matthew (00:36:10):

And so we see that continuation.

Matthew (00:36:12):

All the inertia is with that, the type of conversation we're having.

Matthew (00:36:17):

we don't have any political capital.

Matthew (00:36:18):

We don't have the ability to intersect or intercede and potentially break that

Matthew (00:36:23):

inertia that has come from decades of this type of policy.

Matthew (00:36:26):

So I think that's what we're seeing.

Matthew (00:36:28):

And Trump sees it also as well as a way to, again, line his pockets.

Asbed (00:36:32):

So this is a very interesting inner dialogue that you have exposed.

Asbed (00:36:35):

And it looks like all these distractions in foreign lands have

Asbed (00:36:39):

already taken a toll in the 2025 elections.

Asbed (00:36:43):

I think Trump lost some ground here.

Asbed (00:36:46):

What are your thoughts about how this could project into the 2026 midterm elections?

Asbed (00:36:51):

And what does it predict for Republicans and the MAGA and the America Firsters?

Matthew (00:36:57):

Well,

Matthew (00:36:58):

certainly we see the public opinion polls on this are against Donald Trump and

Matthew (00:37:03):

against his foreign policy decisions,

Matthew (00:37:05):

whether it be Venezuela,

Matthew (00:37:07):

where less than one in three Americans say they're in favor of U.S.

Matthew (00:37:11):

military action against Venezuela, whether it be, say, Israel, where...

Matthew (00:37:17):

A majority of Americans oppose the Israeli government's genocide.

Matthew (00:37:21):

A majority of Americans are against providing assistance and aid to Israel.

Matthew (00:37:25):

Even with Ukraine,

Matthew (00:37:27):

Trump had public opinion support on Ukraine immediately when he came into office.

Matthew (00:37:32):

He had a clear majority of Americans wanting to see a negotiated end of the war.

Matthew (00:37:37):

And 10 months later, here we are now with finally getting points on a paper.

Matthew (00:37:42):

I mean, so he does have that, but he's also been acting in ways that have been

Matthew (00:37:46):

counter to the American public sentiment to get American involvement out of

Matthew (00:37:51):

Ukraine, as well as to end that war through negotiations.

Matthew (00:37:54):

The things with public opinion is whether or not people will actually vote

Matthew (00:37:59):

on these issues right so what you can have you could have people who feel very

Matthew (00:38:04):

strongly about an issue you could have issues out there that have 70 80 90 support

Matthew (00:38:10):

but are people going to actually vote on that particularly when inflation is still

Matthew (00:38:15):

around when cost of living is still high when we have health care uh continuing

Matthew (00:38:21):

health care crisis in the united states when

Matthew (00:38:23):

pick any number of things that you can point to that are going to make people vote

Matthew (00:38:31):

in one way or another,

Matthew (00:38:32):

that Venezuela,

Matthew (00:38:34):

Ukraine,

Matthew (00:38:35):

Palestine,

Matthew (00:38:36):

Israel just won't have that pull.

Matthew (00:38:39):

You know, we've seen that.

Matthew (00:38:41):

We saw, I mentioned this earlier,

Matthew (00:38:43):

you saw in the first George W.

Matthew (00:38:45):

Bush administration,

Matthew (00:38:46):

the results of the Iraq war,

Matthew (00:38:48):

where the Republicans lose the 06 midterms,

Matthew (00:38:52):

clearly because of Iraq.

Matthew (00:38:53):

And then the 08 election is essentially a referendum.

Matthew (00:38:57):

on Iraq. The Republicans didn't do themselves any favors by being incredibly corrupt at that

Matthew (00:39:01):

time as well and having all those scandals.

Matthew (00:39:03):

But at the same time,

Matthew (00:39:05):

that 08 elections,

Matthew (00:39:07):

both the Democratic primary and the general election,

Matthew (00:39:09):

were clear referendums on the Iraq war.

Matthew (00:39:13):

And what the Obama administration does

Matthew (00:39:16):

is when they come into office and they escalate the Afghan war,

Matthew (00:39:19):

that war becomes just as unpopular,

Matthew (00:39:22):

actually more unpopular than the Iraq war.

Matthew (00:39:25):

By December of 2013,

Matthew (00:39:26):

the Afghan war is the most unpopular war in American history,

Matthew (00:39:31):

more unpopular than Iraq.

Matthew (00:39:34):

or the Vietnam War, you had 80% of Americans were opposed to the Afghan war at that point.

Matthew (00:39:39):

But what the Obama administration was able to do was Obama surges troops into

Matthew (00:39:44):

Afghanistan,

Matthew (00:39:45):

massively escalates the war as soon as he comes into office,

Matthew (00:39:49):

does a whole show about it essentially for the first year where we're escalating

Matthew (00:39:53):

war, we're going to win.

Matthew (00:39:54):

And then he also says, we're going to be out though.

Matthew (00:39:56):

We're going to start getting out in the summer of 2011.

Matthew (00:39:58):

So as the war continues,

Matthew (00:40:00):

continues,

Matthew (00:40:01):

as it's clear we're not winning militarily,

Matthew (00:40:03):

as public support continues to go against the war,

Matthew (00:40:08):

there's no consequence politically because we're getting out.

Matthew (00:40:13):

So when the 2012 election comes and the Afghan war is wildly unpopular,

Matthew (00:40:17):

at that point,

Matthew (00:40:18):

probably about 65% or 70% of Americans are against the war.

Matthew (00:40:21):

And you would think then that based on the experiences of the Iraq war,

Matthew (00:40:25):

that this would mean that the Republicans are going to take the White House back.

Matthew (00:40:29):

No, they don't, because the response from the administration is, we're getting out.

Matthew (00:40:33):

We're getting out of Afghanistan, so it's not a big issue.

Matthew (00:40:35):

So people don't feel- But it did cost them the midterms, though, in 2010.

Matthew (00:40:38):

Well, what cost them the midterms was 10 million people losing their homes.

Matthew (00:40:42):

Yeah, absolutely.

Matthew (00:40:44):

Right? I mean, that was the other thing you had, right?

Matthew (00:40:46):

I mean, so you saw actually, too, you saw the Republicans, the Bush White House in 08, trying-

Matthew (00:40:54):

stop this from happening to McCain.

Matthew (00:40:56):

So the reason why the US gets out of Iraq or agrees to that status of forces

Matthew (00:41:01):

agreement with Iraq that says we'll be out by December of 2011,

Matthew (00:41:05):

why George W.

Matthew (00:41:06):

Bush signs that in the summer of 2008,

Matthew (00:41:07):

why he commits to getting out is to try and take Iraq off of the table,

Matthew (00:41:13):

try and get Iraq out of the election so that McCain could do that while we're

Matthew (00:41:16):

getting out of Iraq.

Matthew (00:41:17):

That wasn't good enough at that point.

Matthew (00:41:19):

So, I mean,

Matthew (00:41:20):

there are all these lessons,

Matthew (00:41:21):

I think, in a sense of,

Matthew (00:41:22):

you know,

Matthew (00:41:23):

public opinion matters unless it doesn't matter to the people who are giving you

Matthew (00:41:28):

their opinion,

Matthew (00:41:29):

right? So, you know, I can tell you a story.

Matthew (00:41:33):

I learned this from Grover Norquist,

Matthew (00:41:37):

the far right anti-tax advocate,

Matthew (00:41:40):

Americans for tax reform,

Matthew (00:41:41):

incredibly important in American politics for decades.

Matthew (00:41:45):

And Norquist told me a story one time that when he first got into politics,

Matthew (00:41:49):

in the early 80s, as part of the Reagan revolution, the Reagan wave.

Matthew (00:41:54):

And this would have been, I guess, maybe the 82 midterms.

Matthew (00:41:57):

At that point, prayer in school was the winning issue.

Matthew (00:42:04):

85, 90% of Americans agreed that kids should be allowed to pray in school.

Matthew (00:42:09):

And the Republicans, that's where they put their effort.

Matthew (00:42:12):

And what they realized too late was that

Matthew (00:42:15):

Yeah, people are OK with voting, you know, with kids praying in school.

Matthew (00:42:19):

But in terms of things that matter to you, that's number 11 or 12 on the list, right?

Matthew (00:42:24):

So no one's voting on it.

Matthew (00:42:25):

Everyone might agree on it, but no one's voting on it.

Matthew (00:42:28):

So I think that's, you know, long, long discussion here.

Matthew (00:42:33):

But getting back to this idea of will this have an effect on Trump will be whether or not

Matthew (00:42:42):

one, how close the races are going to be,

Matthew (00:42:44):

but also,

Matthew (00:42:45):

two, whether or not people have more pressing things on them.

Matthew (00:42:49):

I mean, certainly we can look at the 24 elections and point out that Harris loses because

Matthew (00:42:55):

she will not stop her firm embrace of Israel.

Matthew (00:42:58):

I mean,

Matthew (00:42:59):

we have public opinion data that shows that,

Matthew (00:43:01):

polling data that shows that if Harris had agreed to a weapons ban on Israel,

Matthew (00:43:06):

she would have won millions of more votes than

Matthew (00:43:10):

That would have made a difference in the election.

Matthew (00:43:12):

So it can have that impact.

Matthew (00:43:14):

But on the Republican side,

Matthew (00:43:15):

you're not going to see that sentiment as you did on a Democratic side where they

Matthew (00:43:19):

were getting heavy.

Matthew (00:43:20):

You're talking about heavy votes from progressives or from the Arab community.

Hovik (00:43:26):

Let's move to our next topic,

Hovik (00:43:27):

but it's an interesting parallel because Armenia is also being promised AI data

Hovik (00:43:34):

centers. It seems to be the newest drug on the market, fashion, fat drug.

Hovik (00:43:40):

And it's crazy because...

Hovik (00:43:42):

I mean,

Hovik (00:43:43):

sure, there might be some economic investments,

Hovik (00:43:45):

but with just one wave of a pen,

Hovik (00:43:50):

Armenia is now able to import the technology required for these AI data centers.

Hovik (00:43:57):

All these years, if such technology could be given to Armenia,

Hovik (00:44:02):

Maybe there would be less issues in this part of the world, but that's an aside.

Hovik (00:44:08):

One of the key Trump turnabouts,

Hovik (00:44:10):

I think the most surprising one for us,

Hovik (00:44:13):

Armenia watchers,

Hovik (00:44:16):

from America first,

Hovik (00:44:17):

was this TRIPP deal that was signed in the Oval Office when Trump invited Pashinyan

Hovik (00:44:23):

and Aliyev.

Hovik (00:44:25):

to sign agreements that enable Azerbaijan to essentially cross Armenia into

Hovik (00:44:31):

sovereignty-busting unimpeded-ness access.

Hovik (00:44:35):

The word unimpeded is so problematic, but that was deliberately included in that agreement.

Hovik (00:44:41):

So besides connecting Turkey and Azerbaijan,

Hovik (00:44:44):

the Trump route also enables NATO to reach out all the way to Central Asia.

Hovik (00:44:49):

uh to the western border of china uh surround Russia uh from the south and iran

Hovik (00:44:54):

from the north and it is actually us and possibly Israel possibly other players

Hovik (00:45:00):

directly on the border of Iran and inside Armenia one key aspect of the discussion

Hovik (00:45:07):

now is whether the trump route will be 50 or 100 years as a lease and um

Hovik (00:45:15):

I think Trump wanted 200 years initially.

Hovik (00:45:19):

So is America ready for a 50 or 100 year engagement in a region very,

Hovik (00:45:23):

very hostile to its presence?

Hovik (00:45:25):

How does such a plan sit with America First?

Matthew (00:45:29):

It doesn't.

Matthew (00:45:30):

It doesn't sit with America First.

Matthew (00:45:33):

You could take it maybe on the value of it that this is a commercial transaction

Matthew (00:45:40):

and that this lease,

Matthew (00:45:41):

whether it's 50 or 100 years or whatever it's going to be,

Matthew (00:45:44):

is going to be subcontracted to a corporation and that this is all about

Matthew (00:45:48):

establishing new pipeline routes.

Matthew (00:45:50):

It's all about somebody getting to build railroads and highways and that.

Matthew (00:45:54):

you know that there are mineral rights and etc etc and that this is simply a

Matthew (00:45:58):

commercial transaction um and i think that's the way that uh it's it's sold i think

Matthew (00:46:05):

to skeptical uh American members of congress certainly the members of American

Matthew (00:46:11):

congress who i've seen speak about this have spoken about that exactly

Matthew (00:46:14):

And then they layer in some geopolitical things,

Matthew (00:46:17):

saying how this weakens Russia and this weakens China.

Matthew (00:46:19):

I know there have been members of Congress who've spoken about this,

Matthew (00:46:22):

talking so much about China.

Matthew (00:46:23):

And I look at the map, and I see how far removed China is from the region.

Matthew (00:46:27):

This is not China's sphere of influence.

Matthew (00:46:29):

It does have a huge effect on Russia, Armenia, of course, and then Iran, as you just described.

Matthew (00:46:35):

But it doesn't fit into America First.

Matthew (00:46:37):

And it also doesn't fit into what many of us understand as the Trump

Matthew (00:46:42):

administration's grand strategy.

Matthew (00:46:44):

or its rehabilitation of the American empire.

Matthew (00:46:49):

Something that was begun in the first administration really didn't get very far.

Matthew (00:46:53):

But in this administration, you could see this.

Matthew (00:46:56):

There's a method in the madness.

Matthew (00:46:58):

This idea that the Trump administration understands that we are already in a

Matthew (00:47:03):

multipolar world,

Matthew (00:47:05):

that the days of the age of America as a sole superpower is gone.

Matthew (00:47:10):

that the United States is overextended,

Matthew (00:47:12):

that if we continue to have this belief in ourselves as a sole superpower,

Matthew (00:47:17):

we're going to wake up one day and we're going to be in free fall and the rest of

Matthew (00:47:21):

the world is going to be beyond us.

Matthew (00:47:25):

And the idea being not that...

Matthew (00:47:27):

The Trump administration sees itself,

Matthew (00:47:29):

sees the United States as being one of many in a multipolar world or one among

Matthew (00:47:34):

equals in the multipolar world,

Matthew (00:47:36):

but as reshaping the American empire so it can dominate in a multipolar world.

Matthew (00:47:40):

And that involves re-consolidation.

Matthew (00:47:43):

That involves shoring up what's in our spears of influences, right?

Matthew (00:47:47):

So this is why you see the shift to Venezuela, the shift to Latin America, the idea of

Matthew (00:47:53):

of uh getting china out of the hemisphere you know those types of things but then

Matthew (00:47:59):

you have this type of stuff you know we were talking before about Nigeria but this

Matthew (00:48:03):

issue where as well with say the TRIPP where you're gonna have this 100 year

Matthew (00:48:08):

investment in Armenia where a part of of Armenia that most of us didn't know

Matthew (00:48:15):

existed until august

Matthew (00:48:17):

And now some are going to have this 100 year contract to be there in some form or

Matthew (00:48:22):

another that,

Matthew (00:48:24):

you know, this is not simply we got the best deal possible on a piece of real estate that

Matthew (00:48:29):

became available.

Matthew (00:48:30):

This is deliberately sticking our nose into the Russian sphere of influence.

Matthew (00:48:34):

This is deliberately blocking and trying to encircle and contain Iran.

Matthew (00:48:41):

This is,

Matthew (00:48:42):

as you said, creating a passageway,

Matthew (00:48:44):

a connection,

Matthew (00:48:46):

lines of communication between NATO and the Caspian Sea.

Matthew (00:48:52):

So there's all these different geopolitical grand strategy,

Matthew (00:48:57):

Zygmunt Brzezinski grand chessboard type things going on here that America First

Matthew (00:49:02):

was supposedly dead set against because it's ultimately not in America's interest.

Matthew (00:49:07):

You want to talk about not overextending America, now you're going to do this?

Matthew (00:49:11):

Right.

Matthew (00:49:12):

You know, now you're going to.

Matthew (00:49:13):

Right. I mean,

Matthew (00:49:14):

and again, this is,

Matthew (00:49:15):

you know, we say it so often that Americans can't find places on a map.

Matthew (00:49:19):

But this really is a part of the world that for many Americans is someplace unheard of.

Matthew (00:49:25):

Maybe they've heard of Azerbaijan and Armenia.

Matthew (00:49:27):

But the idea that there was this autonomous Azerbaijani republic that was to the

Matthew (00:49:35):

west of Azerbaijan proper and it was cut off by Armenia and then

Matthew (00:49:39):

No one knows that in the U.S.

Matthew (00:49:41):

So, yeah.

Asbed (00:49:42):

Well,

Asbed (00:49:43):

as an American and an Armenian,

Asbed (00:49:46):

my concern here is that this is this basically is a Turkish plan to connect Turkey

Asbed (00:49:51):

with Azerbaijan.

Asbed (00:49:53):

And it didn't feel like a real American plan to me.

Asbed (00:49:56):

So for Trump to be committing America for the next 50 years,

Asbed (00:49:59):

100 years,

Asbed (00:50:00):

all these next presidents that are to come in the next century to a plan that is

Asbed (00:50:05):

not completely thought out,

Asbed (00:50:07):

let's say,

Asbed (00:50:08):

or part of the American strategy seems bizarre,

Asbed (00:50:11):

to be honest.

Asbed (00:50:12):

Yeah.

Matthew (00:50:13):

Yeah, and I think,

Matthew (00:50:14):

you know,

Matthew (00:50:15):

the reality is for most American policymakers,

Matthew (00:50:19):

decision makers,

Matthew (00:50:20):

elected members of Congress,

Matthew (00:50:22):

they don't even get that far into details.

Matthew (00:50:24):

They just see the map and they say, OK, this is going to cut off Iran from Russia.

Matthew (00:50:29):

That's what you're telling me.

Matthew (00:50:30):

That's good news for us.

Matthew (00:50:31):

Let's do it. And that's it.

Matthew (00:50:33):

The other aspects of how other regional countries are affected by this,

Matthew (00:50:39):

how they may be shaping it,

Matthew (00:50:40):

how this may be,

Matthew (00:50:41):

as you said, which sounds right to me.

Matthew (00:50:43):

Certainly, why wouldn't the Turks want to have this direct connection through to Azerbaijan?

Matthew (00:50:50):

But for the American frame of view, that's all secondary, if it even comes up in a discussion.

Matthew (00:50:56):

This is about Russia, and it's about Iran.

Matthew (00:50:59):

The dreams of having this unified alliance against Iran,

Matthew (00:51:04):

that if we ever go to war with Iran,

Matthew (00:51:06):

the Azerbaijanis will be there for us to take Iran from the north.

Matthew (00:51:11):

You know, this belief that somehow we can get the Turks involved in it, right?

Matthew (00:51:15):

I mean, the...

Matthew (00:51:17):

The mania with all this,

Matthew (00:51:19):

the obsession with Iran in particular,

Matthew (00:51:22):

as well as the Russians,

Matthew (00:51:23):

but really with Iran and the United States,

Matthew (00:51:24):

can't be overstated.

Matthew (00:51:26):

I can't find it,

Matthew (00:51:27):

but I swear,

Matthew (00:51:29):

after the fall of Kabul,

Matthew (00:51:30):

after the Taliban took Afghanistan back,

Matthew (00:51:36):

there is a commentator,

Matthew (00:51:37):

an American think tank commentator,

Matthew (00:51:40):

who said this is actually maybe a good thing because we can align with the Taliban

Matthew (00:51:45):

because the Taliban have a long history of conflict with Iran.

Matthew (00:51:49):

And so we can use the Taliban as, you know, a proxy against the Iranians in the future.

Matthew (00:51:56):

I mean, this was like months after the fall of Kabul and you have people in Washington, D.C.

Matthew (00:52:00):

already speaking again in the Brzezinski grand chessboard style of thought that, you know,

Matthew (00:52:07):

Yeah,

Matthew (00:52:08):

I mean, is this going to lead to,

Matthew (00:52:10):

as you know,

Matthew (00:52:12):

not just overextension,

Matthew (00:52:13):

but entrapment where the United States is now caught in something that it didn't

Matthew (00:52:17):

fully understand to begin with?

Matthew (00:52:19):

Its reasons for it aren't,

Matthew (00:52:21):

as you were saying,

Matthew (00:52:22):

related to the actual reasons it's occurring on the ground.

Matthew (00:52:25):

This is all because of high-minded,

Matthew (00:52:30):

wistful,

Matthew (00:52:31):

whimsical American thinking looking at a map on a wall and how we're going to cut

Matthew (00:52:35):

the Russians off from the Iranians.

Matthew (00:52:37):

And that's, let's go for it.

Matthew (00:52:39):

You know, and so,

Matthew (00:52:40):

yeah, you wonder,

Matthew (00:52:41):

as you said,

Matthew (00:52:42):

three, four presidents from now,

Matthew (00:52:44):

what are these guys going to be,

Matthew (00:52:45):

you know,

Matthew (00:52:46):

thinking about this?

Matthew (00:52:47):

Exactly.

Hovik (00:52:49):

Well, I have so much to say about this, but I'll say two things.

Hovik (00:52:52):

One is that,

Hovik (00:52:54):

and this is my opinion,

Hovik (00:52:55):

I apologize to the audience if you disagree,

Hovik (00:52:58):

but it seems like Armenians are very simple people.

Hovik (00:53:03):

We like to be liked.

Hovik (00:53:06):

So we're saying, if you just pick us, we will be your best buddies.

Hovik (00:53:11):

We will be the best US ally in the region, not realizing the bigger games being played here.

Hovik (00:53:18):

But the other lament I will say is that, you know, this is all being done.

Hovik (00:53:25):

I realized we talked for about an hour without mentioning the fact that all of this

Hovik (00:53:29):

was made possible by the graves,

Hovik (00:53:32):

by, you know,

Hovik (00:53:33):

ethnic cleansing of Armenians from Nagorno-Karabakh,

Hovik (00:53:36):

which is also absent from discussions between U.S.

Hovik (00:53:39):

and it seems like

Hovik (00:53:41):

even basic things such as human rights,

Hovik (00:53:43):

the right to return,

Hovik (00:53:44):

the right to visit the grave of your loved one in Nagorno-Karabakh.

Hovik (00:53:48):

Let's just say,

Hovik (00:53:49):

okay, give me a supervised escorted trip so I can go and lay flowers on my son's grave.

Hovik (00:53:57):

Even that is being treated as almost like Armenian leadership right now is saying

Hovik (00:54:04):

that's a security threat to Armenia,

Hovik (00:54:06):

so we're not going to talk about it.

Hovik (00:54:08):

Well, I mean,

Matthew (00:54:09):

that's what's so amazing is when that happened,

Matthew (00:54:13):

the cleansing of Nagorno-Karabakh,

Matthew (00:54:15):

that was 2022 or 2023?

Matthew (00:54:17):

23.

Matthew (00:54:19):

23. I remember watching that and just being amazed that no one was saying anything.

Matthew (00:54:26):

You know,

Matthew (00:54:27):

I was watching on Al Jazeera and just seeing how clear this was a cleansing,

Matthew (00:54:31):

how there was Armenians there one day and then they had a correspondent there and

Matthew (00:54:35):

then there was nobody there the next day and

Matthew (00:54:37):

And like there are some Azerbaijani troops.

Matthew (00:54:39):

But meanwhile, everything was gone.

Matthew (00:54:41):

It looked like a scene from a movie.

Matthew (00:54:43):

All the people had fled.

Matthew (00:54:44):

And they were just,

Matthew (00:54:45):

you know,

Matthew (00:54:46):

you could tell people have fled because they were,

Matthew (00:54:47):

you know,

Matthew (00:54:48):

a baby shoe laying in the street,

Matthew (00:54:50):

you know, and the dogs left behind.

Matthew (00:54:52):

And, you know, clear indications that of what had really occurred here.

Matthew (00:54:57):

And just silence in the West, it seemed like.

Matthew (00:55:00):

Absolute silence was amazing.

Matthew (00:55:03):

Yeah.

Matthew (00:55:04):

And so I know I think Armenia,

Matthew (00:55:06):

unfortunately,

Matthew (00:55:08):

you know,

Matthew (00:55:09):

I think people have these aspirations or hopes for the multipole of the world that

Matthew (00:55:14):

I think are not going to be realized.

Matthew (00:55:16):

I think it's going to be essentially the strong taking the weak as they want.

Matthew (00:55:21):

You know, go back to Thities,

Matthew (00:55:24):

excuse me,

Matthew (00:55:25):

the strong do as they wish,

Matthew (00:55:28):

the weak suffer as they must.

Matthew (00:55:30):

You know, our best thing that we have was following World War Two,

Matthew (00:55:33):

the attempt to create an international order through international law and

Matthew (00:55:37):

institutions and.

Matthew (00:55:40):

That has broken down,

Matthew (00:55:43):

and now as we move into the multipolar world,

Matthew (00:55:45):

I think we're going to see dominant nations,

Matthew (00:55:48):

dominant alliances,

Matthew (00:55:49):

dominant blocs as well,

Matthew (00:55:51):

and nations like Armenia or nations like Palestine are going to suffer.

Matthew (00:55:59):

If they don't have something that can be provided,

Matthew (00:56:01):

if they don't have something that's worth it,

Matthew (00:56:04):

they are going to be just trod upon by the dominant nations.

Asbed (00:56:09):

A dog-eat-dog world and the law of the jungle.

Asbed (00:56:13):

Well, we love to leave our shows on happy notes like that. Matthew,

Asbed (00:56:18):

Thank you so much for coming on our show.

Asbed (00:56:19):

We really appreciate your insight and the time you take to talk with us.

Matthew (00:56:23):

Oh, my pleasure.

Matthew (00:56:24):

Thank you for having me join you.

Matthew (00:56:26):

Thank you very much, Matthew.

Asbed (00:56:28):

Well, that's our show today.

Asbed (00:56:30):

We recorded it on November 29, 2025.

Asbed (00:56:33):

And we've been talking with Captain Matthew Ho,

Asbed (00:56:36):

who is an Eisenhower Media Network Associate Director.

Asbed (00:56:39):

He's a former U.S.

Asbed (00:56:41):

Marine Corps Captain and State Department Officer,

Asbed (00:56:44):

Iraq War Combat Vet and Afghanistan War State Department Officer.

Asbed (00:56:48):

For more information,

Asbed (00:56:49):

you can click on the show notes,

Asbed (00:56:52):

podcasts.groong.org/episode-number and click on the people.

Hovik (00:56:57):

All right, folks, if you like what you heard and saw today, please like, share, and comment.

Hovik (00:57:02):

We're trying to do a good job for you,

Hovik (00:57:05):

and we are working hard,

Hovik (00:57:07):

and we appreciate any and all types of support,

Hovik (00:57:10):

including financial support.

Hovik (00:57:12):

The URL for that, if you're not tired of listening to that, is podcasts.groong.org/donate

Hovik (00:57:19):

become a search sponsor for five bucks a month or you can go all the way up to a

Hovik (00:57:24):

harissa humanitarian it's a yummy food if you haven't heard if you haven't eaten it

Hovik (00:57:28):

try it at an armenian restaurant uh at least once uh and uh that keeps us going

Hovik (00:57:34):

that keeps us uh circulating in front of more eyes

Hovik (00:57:39):

And last but not least,

Hovik (00:57:41):

because a lot of you folks may have just reached us through clicking on Matt Ho's

Hovik (00:57:46):

name,

Hovik (00:57:47):

you might be new to us.

Hovik (00:57:48):

So please make sure you're subscribed.

Hovik (00:57:49):

We promise we will bring you other great shows like this.

Hovik (00:57:54):

We also focus on Armenian content,

Hovik (00:57:55):

but feel free to ignore those if you want to focus more on global content.

Hovik (00:57:59):

We want to do at least two international shows a month.

Hovik (00:58:04):

Hope you like the quality.

Hovik (00:58:05):

If you like the quality, then subscribe.

Asbed (00:58:08):

We're very interested in geopolitics and especially the way that it affects Armenia.

Asbed (00:58:12):

But it's not all just Armenian politics.

Asbed (00:58:14):

It's actually world politics.

Asbed (00:58:15):

And since Armenia has a very strong diaspora, especially here in the United States, like me,

Asbed (00:58:22):

There's a lot to be said about the US politics, for example, America First, MAGA.

Asbed (00:58:28):

We are very interested in these things because when a superpower sneezes,

Asbed (00:58:32):

Armenia catches a cold or worse pneumonia.

Asbed (00:58:35):

Take care, folks.

Asbed (00:58:36):

I'm Asbed Bedrossian in Los Angeles.

Hovik (00:58:40):

And I'm Hovik Manucharyan back in my place in Yerevan.

Hovik (00:58:44):

But my son kicked me out of my favorite spot in front of my bookshelf.

Hovik (00:58:49):

So I am here recording in a different room with my standard background.

Hovik (00:58:54):

But I hope to be in front of my bookshelf for the next recording,

Hovik (00:58:59):

which is going to happen in less than an hour.

Hovik (00:59:03):

Talk to you, folks.

Hovik (00:59:04):

Bye-bye.

Hovik (00:59:05):

Bye-bye.

Head Shot

Asbed Bedrossian

Co-host
Head Shot

Hovik Manucharyan

Co-host
Head Shot

Matthew Hoh

Guest

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