Armenian News Network - Groong: Week In Review Podcast

Fr. Serop Azarian - Armenian Church Under Attack | Ep 503, Jan 11, 2026

• Armenian News Network / Groong • Episode 503

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Conversations on Groong - Jan 11, 2026

Topics:

  • Pashinyan Attacks: Geopolitics or Vendetta?
  • Renegade Bishops: Demands and Narratives
  • Stolen Church Property
  • From Christmas to Easter

Guest: Fr. Serop Azarian

Hosts:

Episode 503 | Recorded: January 9, 2026

SHOW NOTES: https://podcasts.groong.org/503

VIDEO: https://youtu.be/TVEvBdX_Qr4

#ArmenianApostolicChurch #ArmenianChurch #Garegin #Catholicos #NikolPashinyan #ArmenianDiaspora


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Hovik (00:00:04):

Hello everyone, and welcome to Conversations on Groong.

Hovik (00:00:07):

In this episode,

Hovik (00:00:08):

we're continuing to discuss the outrageous attacks against the Armenian Apostolic

Hovik (00:00:12):

Church of Nikol Pashinyan and his government.

Hovik (00:00:15):

For this, we'll soon be joined by Fr.

Hovik (00:00:17):

Serop Azarian, a clergyman and a member of the Armenian Apostolic Church.

Asbed (00:00:23):

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Asbed (00:00:28):

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Asbed (00:00:54):

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Asbed (00:01:27):

Thank you for listening.

Asbed (00:01:28):

On with the show now.

Asbed (00:01:29):

You'll be interested in hearing this show.

Hovik (00:01:33):

Welcome to the Groong Podcast.

Fr. Serop (00:01:35):

Thank you very much for inviting me.

Fr. Serop (00:01:37):

It's a pleasure to be here with you.

Asbed (00:01:38):

Thank you, Father Serop.

Hovik (00:01:39):

Father Serop, this is your first time on our show.

Hovik (00:01:42):

Hopefully it will be not the last time and definitely we'll see each other more frequently.

Hovik (00:01:48):

But would you tell us about yourself and your involvement in the Armenian Apostolic

Hovik (00:01:52):

Church and the Armenian community?

Hovik (00:01:55):

Just whatever you would like our viewers and listeners to know about you.

Fr. Serop (00:01:59):

Thank you so much. I appreciate that, Hovik and Asbed.

Fr. Serop (00:02:02):

It's a pleasure to be here with you.

Fr. Serop (00:02:04):

To go back on my background a little bit,

Fr. Serop (00:02:07):

I was born in Kuwait from Syrian-Armenian parents and came to this country.

Fr. Serop (00:02:14):

Of course, I got my education over there in Kuwait in the Armenian local elementary and middle

Fr. Serop (00:02:20):

and high school.

Fr. Serop (00:02:21):

After graduation, I came to the United States in 1987.

Fr. Serop (00:02:25):

Whereas I first, of course, before my education, joined the U.S.

Fr. Serop (00:02:28):

military and did eight years of military service in the United States Army.

Fr. Serop (00:02:32):

I'm a United States Army vet.

Fr. Serop (00:02:34):

And afterwards,

Fr. Serop (00:02:35):

I wanted to,

Fr. Serop (00:02:36):

at the meantime,

Fr. Serop (00:02:38):

I would say, I wanted to pursue my clerical education in three universities,

Fr. Serop (00:02:44):

which are on my page on Facebook.

Fr. Serop (00:02:48):

After doing those, I got ordained in 1999.

Fr. Serop (00:02:51):

I'm one of those clergy.

Fr. Serop (00:02:54):

who very uniquely very unique probably the only one if there are any others who

Fr. Serop (00:03:00):

have never been to an armenian seminary in other words to etchmiyazin to antalyas

Fr. Serop (00:03:05):

or to jerusalem or to constantinople i have not been to one so therefore my

Fr. Serop (00:03:10):

education is purely

Fr. Serop (00:03:13):

religious,

Fr. Serop (00:03:16):

scholastic,

Fr. Serop (00:03:17):

and totally based on the education that I received,

Fr. Serop (00:03:21):

of course, in the local churches here in the United States,

Fr. Serop (00:03:24):

but at the same time it was in the universities here in the United States.

Fr. Serop (00:03:30):

After pursuing my education,

Fr. Serop (00:03:32):

getting my Bachelor's in Divinity,

Fr. Serop (00:03:34):

I became ordained in 1999,

Fr. Serop (00:03:36):

whereas I served first in the East Coast in the Prahlesi,

Fr. Serop (00:03:41):

in the Armenian Prahlesi.

Fr. Serop (00:03:42):

As you know, there are two parallel primates,

Fr. Serop (00:03:47):

or parallel leaders of the Church in the United States,

Fr. Serop (00:03:51):

on either coast,

Fr. Serop (00:03:52):

on the East Coast and the West Coast.

Fr. Serop (00:03:54):

One belongs to the Mother Holy See of Holy Ishmaelzin,

Fr. Serop (00:03:57):

and one belongs to the Great House of Cilicia.

Fr. Serop (00:04:00):

Of course,

Fr. Serop (00:04:01):

since due to my background,

Fr. Serop (00:04:02):

I was in the Great House of Cilicia,

Fr. Serop (00:04:05):

whereas I was ordained in Massachusetts.

Fr. Serop (00:04:07):

Afterwards,

Fr. Serop (00:04:09):

after my transfer to the West Coast,

Fr. Serop (00:04:10):

I joined Mother Holy See of Holy H.

Fr. Serop (00:04:12):

Miyazin,

Fr. Serop (00:04:14):

whereas I've been since 2007.

Fr. Serop (00:04:16):

Years have taken me here and there.

Fr. Serop (00:04:20):

Years have been probably somewhat...

Fr. Serop (00:04:24):

sweet and bitter sometimes for me.

Fr. Serop (00:04:28):

I've been always a straightforward clergyman in the Armenian Apostolic Church,

Fr. Serop (00:04:33):

and I have a good background in my authorship,

Fr. Serop (00:04:39):

writing,

Fr. Serop (00:04:40):

translations,

Fr. Serop (00:04:41):

and I shouldn't say this,

Fr. Serop (00:04:44):

probably people have to dig it out,

Fr. Serop (00:04:46):

but I'm glad to say that the first time that Armenian Apostolic

Fr. Serop (00:04:51):

Orthodox churches, liturgy, the divine liturgy was translated into Arabic by me.

Fr. Serop (00:04:57):

So I did that and,

Fr. Serop (00:04:59):

gave it to the respective churches,

Fr. Serop (00:05:01):

which are interested in that this was in 2013.

Asbed (00:05:05):

All these centuries, we haven't had an Arabic liturgy.

Fr. Serop (00:05:08):

We have the liturgy in other churches,

Fr. Serop (00:05:11):

but of course in the Armenian Apostolic Church,

Fr. Serop (00:05:14):

there was no translation whatsoever.

Asbed (00:05:16):

Okay, I'm amazed.

Fr. Serop (00:05:18):

So that was one of them.

Fr. Serop (00:05:19):

And of course,

Fr. Serop (00:05:20):

since 2014,

Fr. Serop (00:05:21):

since my return from Canada,

Fr. Serop (00:05:24):

whereas I served between 2011 and 2014,

Fr. Serop (00:05:25):

early 2014, I've been working as

Fr. Serop (00:05:31):

a court interpreter here in Clark County.

Fr. Serop (00:05:34):

And,

Fr. Serop (00:05:35):

I work for,

Fr. Serop (00:05:36):

that in that realm here in Clark County,

Fr. Serop (00:05:40):

in the original justice court in municipal family and other courts.

Fr. Serop (00:05:44):

And, uh, I've interpreted some cases which are remarkable here and there.

Fr. Serop (00:05:50):

That's a very brief introduction.

Hovik (00:05:52):

There's sort of, uh, I do want to actually, uh,

Hovik (00:05:56):

To dive a little bit deeper into that,

Hovik (00:05:59):

you are currently not serving in a capacity as a priest,

Hovik (00:06:07):

as a Kahana.

Hovik (00:06:09):

So can you tell us a little bit more on why?

Hovik (00:06:11):

Because I'm sure we'll touch upon this in more detail, but is it your choice?

Hovik (00:06:19):

What drove you to, I guess, not fully devote yourself to the church and become an interpreter?

Fr. Serop (00:06:26):

Thank you. That's a good question, but let me make a correction, please.

Fr. Serop (00:06:29):

It's not that I'm not serving as a priest.

Fr. Serop (00:06:32):

Yes, I am still a priest and I'm serving as a priest in the Armenian Apostolic Church, even now.

Fr. Serop (00:06:37):

However, I'm not a pastor.

Fr. Serop (00:06:39):

There's a difference between being a priest and a pastor.

Fr. Serop (00:06:42):

In Armenian, Kahana.

Fr. Serop (00:06:44):

My apologies.

Fr. Serop (00:06:46):

Because you have to know that any churchman,

Fr. Serop (00:06:50):

even in the non-Armenian apostolic realm,

Fr. Serop (00:06:52):

even in the Orthodox or Catholic or other churches,

Fr. Serop (00:06:55):

even Protestant,

Fr. Serop (00:06:56):

let's say,

Fr. Serop (00:06:57):

you can be a clergyman,

Fr. Serop (00:06:58):

but you can serve in a different capacity.

Fr. Serop (00:07:00):

as a doctor,

Fr. Serop (00:07:01):

as a lawyer,

Fr. Serop (00:07:02):

as a chaplain,

Fr. Serop (00:07:03):

as a teacher,

Fr. Serop (00:07:05):

as an educator,

Fr. Serop (00:07:06):

as many, many other ways,

Fr. Serop (00:07:07):

even as a scientist.

Fr. Serop (00:07:09):

We have scientist priests who probably are unique,

Fr. Serop (00:07:13):

and there are some Catholic priests who serve in those realms too.

Fr. Serop (00:07:17):

Not being different than them,

Fr. Serop (00:07:19):

of course, the Armenian Apostolic Church has priests who probably are not pastors,

Fr. Serop (00:07:25):

spiritual pastors of a given church.

Fr. Serop (00:07:28):

I am serving right now as a priest, but not as a pastor.

Fr. Serop (00:07:33):

Why?

Fr. Serop (00:07:34):

Well,

Fr. Serop (00:07:35):

that's a complex and floated question,

Fr. Serop (00:07:36):

because it is the unfortunate choice of His Eminence Hovnan Serpazan of the Western

Fr. Serop (00:07:44):

Diocese,

Fr. Serop (00:07:45):

because he has a certain approach to me.

Fr. Serop (00:07:49):

He has a certain way of viewing me.

Fr. Serop (00:07:52):

Although, even if you look at it from the spiritual realm or from the canonical view,

Fr. Serop (00:07:58):

it is non-valid,

Fr. Serop (00:07:59):

because if a priest has not done anything wrong,

Fr. Serop (00:08:02):

if he has not done any kind of mistake or any kind of trampling upon a canonical

Fr. Serop (00:08:09):

law or anything else like that,

Fr. Serop (00:08:11):

he should not be taken out of a temah or a tem or a diocese.

Fr. Serop (00:08:17):

If a priest is guilty of a mistake,

Fr. Serop (00:08:20):

major sin,

Fr. Serop (00:08:21):

let's say,

Fr. Serop (00:08:22):

or if he has done something wrong and not based on a whimsical decision,

Fr. Serop (00:08:27):

let's say, by a person,

Fr. Serop (00:08:28):

in that case,

Fr. Serop (00:08:29):

he shouldn't be taken out of a diocese.

Fr. Serop (00:08:32):

However, this is his choice.

Fr. Serop (00:08:34):

And of course I have written about it and spoken about it sometimes.

Fr. Serop (00:08:39):

And for, unfortunately for years that that wasn't, um, on the radar of Holy Etchmiadzin.

Fr. Serop (00:08:45):

Now it is based on the current events that are taking place.

Asbed (00:08:49):

Okay.

Asbed (00:08:50):

Our main topic today is about the attack on the Armenian church in Armenia by the state.

Asbed (00:08:57):

So let me give a very brief background about that.

Asbed (00:09:00):

The Pashinyan regime has long had a tense relationship with the Armenian Apostolic Church.

Asbed (00:09:05):

And after the capitulation in the 44-day war in 2020,

Asbed (00:09:09):

the church was one of the institutions,

Asbed (00:09:10):

along with many other institutions around the country,

Asbed (00:09:13):

the opposition,

Asbed (00:09:14):

everybody else,

Asbed (00:09:15):

that demanded Pashinyan's resignation.

Asbed (00:09:17):

But until recently, it looked manageable.

Asbed (00:09:20):

The relationship just chugged along.

Asbed (00:09:23):

The church invited Pashinyan as a head of state to religious ceremonies,

Asbed (00:09:26):

and Pashinyan attended,

Asbed (00:09:28):

and things went on.

Asbed (00:09:29):

That changed after May 2025,

Asbed (00:09:31):

when the Catholicists spoke at a Swiss peace initiative summit in Bern,

Asbed (00:09:37):

where he raised the issue of the return of Armenians back to Artsakh and the need

Asbed (00:09:44):

to protect the Armenian cultural and religious rights there.

Asbed (00:09:48):

Soon after that, we saw a coordinated escalation.

Asbed (00:09:50):

Azerbaijani religious figures question core Armenian holy sites.

Asbed (00:09:57):

Anna Hagopian publicly started smearing the Armenian clergy and Pashinyan began a

Asbed (00:10:02):

sustained campaign of character assassination,

Asbed (00:10:05):

insults and political pressure on Armenian clergy loyal to the Catholicists and the

Asbed (00:10:10):

Catholicists himself,

Asbed (00:10:11):

as a matter of fact.

Asbed (00:10:12):

Since then, the crackdown has hardened.

Asbed (00:10:15):

Multiple bishops are jailed on dubious charges and several churches reportedly

Asbed (00:10:20):

seized or placed under control of defrocked clergy backed by the state.

Asbed (00:10:25):

And most recently,

Asbed (00:10:26):

Pashinyan and a group of 10 renegade bishops issued a reform roadmap that reads a

Asbed (00:10:32):

little bit less like a reform and more like a takeover,

Asbed (00:10:35):

aiming to sideline the Catholicists,

Asbed (00:10:37):

install a loyal interim or acting vicar,

Asbed (00:10:40):

whatever that means really,

Asbed (00:10:42):

renaming the church,

Asbed (00:10:44):

And we'll talk a little bit about that also and impose state controlled rules under

Asbed (00:10:48):

the banner of transparency.

Asbed (00:10:51):

Tell us what sort of a stage is Pashinyan setting up for 2026 between him and the church?

Fr. Serop (00:10:59):

I mean, the questions were very,

Fr. Serop (00:11:00):

very elaborate,

Fr. Serop (00:11:02):

and I appreciate the way that you have,

Fr. Serop (00:11:05):

of course, presented the last bit.

Asbed (00:11:06):

That was a very short summary, to be honest.

Asbed (00:11:08):

Of course.

Asbed (00:11:09):

Very short summary.

Fr. Serop (00:11:09):

I mean, we have all gone through it, and I'm sure that we are all in the same boat.

Fr. Serop (00:11:13):

But the thing is this.

Fr. Serop (00:11:16):

Pashinyan is right now currently living, fighting for his political life

Fr. Serop (00:11:20):

because for him it's either life life or death it's one or the other, he is

Fr. Serop (00:11:25):

basically... he knows very well that

Fr. Serop (00:11:30):

After the capitulation of 2020,

Fr. Serop (00:11:32):

after the many wars that he had,

Fr. Serop (00:11:34):

of course, or the attempts on Armenia's border in 2021,

Fr. Serop (00:11:39):

2022, in October 6th of 2022,

Fr. Serop (00:11:42):

when he went to Prague,

Fr. Serop (00:11:43):

Czech Republic,

Fr. Serop (00:11:44):

I mean, he over there officially accepted Artsakh being part of Azerbaijan,

Fr. Serop (00:11:50):

on which he had no right whatsoever.

Asbed (00:11:52):

Absolutely.

Fr. Serop (00:11:53):

Not being an elected official of Artsakh,

Fr. Serop (00:11:55):

not being a person who probably was going to represent Artsakh.

Fr. Serop (00:12:00):

Artsakh had its own government when he probably took over,

Fr. Serop (00:12:05):

staged a war,

Fr. Serop (00:12:07):

and God knows what he took in return from the Azeri government.

Fr. Serop (00:12:11):

And at the end,

Fr. Serop (00:12:13):

in 2023,

Fr. Serop (00:12:15):

when he finally did everything possible in order to have Artsakh surrounded,

Fr. Serop (00:12:19):

nine months...

Fr. Serop (00:12:21):

nine months of Artsakh living in a ghetto.

Fr. Serop (00:12:24):

This was the same as the Warsaw ghetto in World War II,

Fr. Serop (00:12:28):

when the Polish Jews have underwent the unbearable situation.

Fr. Serop (00:12:32):

At the end,

Fr. Serop (00:12:33):

they gave up,

Fr. Serop (00:12:34):

and most of them were taken to the concentration camps,

Fr. Serop (00:12:36):

and they were massacred.

Fr. Serop (00:12:38):

Of course, we know that what Azerbaijan was going to do.

Fr. Serop (00:12:41):

probably something similar if they resisted.

Fr. Serop (00:12:44):

And of course, lots of people say, why didn't you resist?

Fr. Serop (00:12:47):

Why didn't you fight? Why didn't you do this and that?

Fr. Serop (00:12:49):

Without forgetting the detail of being first in their shoes, trying to be in their shoes,

Fr. Serop (00:12:57):

trying to be in nine months without food or water trying to be you know surrounded

Fr. Serop (00:13:01):

by enemy constantly being harassed and the situation narrowed and of course

Fr. Serop (00:13:06):

they blame always you know another party in this case Russia as to not protecting

Fr. Serop (00:13:12):

them

Fr. Serop (00:13:13):

Russia was of course preoccupied in Ukraine at the same time Russia was saying if

Fr. Serop (00:13:17):

your government is doing this what isn't it for us basically but I'm not trying to

Fr. Serop (00:13:21):

protect Russia at all I'm not saying that they are completely of course you know

Fr. Serop (00:13:25):

any without any blame everyone has their blame but the main blame falls on this

Fr. Serop (00:13:31):

regime that they did everything possible in order to destroy Artsakh

Hovik (00:13:37):

Can I just also add that right during the September 19 attack,

Hovik (00:13:46):

the attack that put a bookend on the blockade,

Hovik (00:13:49):

the Armenian government announced that they would not

Hovik (00:13:52):

support,

Hovik (00:13:53):

they would not guarantee the security of Armenians in Artsakh,

Hovik (00:13:57):

something that they have always done.

Hovik (00:13:58):

So that I think needs to be taken into a major account as well.

Fr. Serop (00:14:03):

Absolutely.

Fr. Serop (00:14:04):

I mean, Armenians government,

Fr. Serop (00:14:05):

I have to even go a further step and say they cannot even guarantee the Armenian

Fr. Serop (00:14:09):

security today.

Fr. Serop (00:14:11):

I mean, if there is any kind of an attempt on Armenia's border,

Fr. Serop (00:14:14):

especially in the south after the election,

Fr. Serop (00:14:16):

God forbid,

Fr. Serop (00:14:17):

then I will be very sure that the government in Armenia will try to come up with

Fr. Serop (00:14:22):

any kind of excuse in order to say that we cannot just defend ourselves in this

Fr. Serop (00:14:26):

current situation and Azerbaijan is basically more powerful.

Fr. Serop (00:14:29):

What do you want, people?

Fr. Serop (00:14:31):

Do you want war?

Fr. Serop (00:14:33):

So do you want to have another fight?

Fr. Serop (00:14:34):

Let's give him something else.

Fr. Serop (00:14:36):

Let's appease them.

Fr. Serop (00:14:38):

This chamberlainship that's going on all the time,

Fr. Serop (00:14:41):

when I mean chamberlainship,

Fr. Serop (00:14:42):

I mean, of course,

Fr. Serop (00:14:43):

Neville Chamberlain in 1938.

Fr. Serop (00:14:45):

When he was basically appeasing Adolf Hitler,

Fr. Serop (00:14:49):

and at the same time trying to avoid war by all possibility,

Fr. Serop (00:14:53):

not knowing that probably Hitler was going to go more and more and more,

Fr. Serop (00:14:56):

get all of Poland,

Fr. Serop (00:14:57):

and then probably France,

Fr. Serop (00:14:58):

north of France,

Fr. Serop (00:15:00):

and not only that,

Fr. Serop (00:15:01):

blockade England too.

Fr. Serop (00:15:02):

I mean, of course, we know this was an alternative history.

Fr. Serop (00:15:05):

Coming back to the question that Asbed posted, the Armenian Church is no exception.

Fr. Serop (00:15:10):

What happened that Pashinyan,

Fr. Serop (00:15:11):

first of all,

Fr. Serop (00:15:12):

of course, I don't want to give his name,

Fr. Serop (00:15:13):

I apologize,

Fr. Serop (00:15:14):

but for the sake of reference,

Fr. Serop (00:15:16):

the so-called Prime Minister of Armenia,

Fr. Serop (00:15:18):

who is basically an official today,

Fr. Serop (00:15:22):

put in Armenia by the Turkish states,

Fr. Serop (00:15:25):

when I say states,

Fr. Serop (00:15:26):

by both Azerbaijan and Turkey.

Fr. Serop (00:15:28):

I do not consider Pashinyan anymore to be the Prime Minister of Armenia since 2020,

Fr. Serop (00:15:33):

because he is doing everything that the Azeri government is dictating to him.

Fr. Serop (00:15:40):

what kind of prime minister that is of a country who,

Fr. Serop (00:15:44):

of course, having an animosity of 30 years with an enemy country who is bent on destroying us,

Fr. Serop (00:15:51):

massacring us,

Fr. Serop (00:15:52):

denying us our rights,

Fr. Serop (00:15:54):

denying us our existence in Armenia,

Fr. Serop (00:15:56):

many times.

Fr. Serop (00:15:57):

How many times do we have to hear Azerbaijan officials who will come on the air and

Fr. Serop (00:16:02):

say that country which is called Armenia is Western Azerbaijan?

Fr. Serop (00:16:06):

And after destroying our army,

Fr. Serop (00:16:09):

devastating it, let's say,

Fr. Serop (00:16:11):

after not trying to upbuild it in the full capacity and power that Armenia deserves

Fr. Serop (00:16:16):

to be defended by,

Fr. Serop (00:16:18):

for example,

Fr. Serop (00:16:20):

the same time when he denies us our demands or pursuit of justice,

Fr. Serop (00:16:25):

when he denies us our Armenian church's education inside the Armenian educational

Fr. Serop (00:16:32):

system,

Fr. Serop (00:16:33):

when he denied Ararat for example which is stamped in the heart and not even

Fr. Serop (00:16:38):

stamped it is basically engraved in the heart of every Armenian since his birth I

Fr. Serop (00:16:44):

mean you cannot be an Armenian without knowing that you belong to or Ararat belongs

Fr. Serop (00:16:48):

to Armenia not to any other nation and of course I have expressed myself so many

Fr. Serop (00:16:52):

times before this time about this when he denies the Armenian genocide in a certain

Fr. Serop (00:16:58):

devious way when he says that we have to find out what happened

Asbed (00:17:03):

It's complete Turkish narrative.

Fr. Serop (00:17:08):

This is unbelievable.

Fr. Serop (00:17:10):

This is unacceptable.

Fr. Serop (00:17:11):

No one in the world deserves to be the prime minister of the Republic of Armenia if

Fr. Serop (00:17:16):

he says something like that.

Fr. Serop (00:17:18):

No one.

Fr. Serop (00:17:19):

Therefore,

Fr. Serop (00:17:20):

and I,

Fr. Serop (00:17:21):

of course, you will see a clip on my page that I was expressing myself very strongly about

Fr. Serop (00:17:26):

this issue.

Fr. Serop (00:17:27):

We in the diaspora here,

Fr. Serop (00:17:30):

have lived all these years based on the fact that we are the children and grandchildren now.

Fr. Serop (00:17:36):

And of course, if you look at the third or fourth or fifth generation that are abound right now,

Fr. Serop (00:17:42):

we are the descendants of those people who were massacred and were thrown out of

Fr. Serop (00:17:46):

Western Armenia.

Fr. Serop (00:17:48):

and even today this man comes up and says that we have to find out what's happened

Fr. Serop (00:17:53):

let them find me a jew any jew in the world who will say that the holocaust has to

Fr. Serop (00:17:58):

be re-examined i mean i work with jewish people i work with jews i work with

Fr. Serop (00:18:05):

orthodox jews and conservative jews reformed jews all kind of jews israelis

Fr. Serop (00:18:10):

non-Israelis and no one in the world has the

Fr. Serop (00:18:14):

decency, common decency to even come up with that.

Fr. Serop (00:18:18):

We know what happened in World War II.

Fr. Serop (00:18:20):

despite if you like them,

Fr. Serop (00:18:21):

don't like them,

Fr. Serop (00:18:22):

based on whatever political,

Fr. Serop (00:18:24):

you know, baseless events or none.

Fr. Serop (00:18:27):

I am an Armenian.

Fr. Serop (00:18:28):

I know what happened to my people.

Fr. Serop (00:18:30):

The Greeks know what happened to the Greek people.

Fr. Serop (00:18:33):

The Assyrians know what happened to the Assyrian people, but they call it Seyfo.

Fr. Serop (00:18:36):

You don't find one Assyrian,

Fr. Serop (00:18:37):

one Greek who says that the Assyrian genocide has to be reexamined or the Greek

Fr. Serop (00:18:42):

genocide has to be reexamined by the Turkish government and the Turks,

Fr. Serop (00:18:46):

of course.

Fr. Serop (00:18:47):

constitutionally speaking, they will never ever admit to it.

Fr. Serop (00:18:50):

Never.

Fr. Serop (00:18:51):

They will never say that Turkey committed a genocide against the Armenian.

Fr. Serop (00:18:56):

Case in point in Sudan,

Fr. Serop (00:18:58):

case in point in Sudan in 2014,

Fr. Serop (00:19:00):

when Erdogan in the height of the Sudanese genocide in Darfur,

Fr. Serop (00:19:07):

when it was happening,

Fr. Serop (00:19:08):

Erdogan said this,

Fr. Serop (00:19:10):

he said,

Fr. Serop (00:19:11):

and you can examine on Google.

Fr. Serop (00:19:12):

He said, a Muslim cannot commit genocide.

Fr. Serop (00:19:17):

How beautiful.

Fr. Serop (00:19:18):

A Muslim cannot commit genocide.

Fr. Serop (00:19:20):

But of course,

Fr. Serop (00:19:21):

when they take in Azerbaijan an event that was admitted by the former president of

Fr. Serop (00:19:31):

Azerbaijan,

Fr. Serop (00:19:32):

who said that the event that happened in Khojali,

Fr. Serop (00:19:37):

that was a genocide by Armenians.

Fr. Serop (00:19:40):

When they killed thousands of Armenians,

Fr. Serop (00:19:42):

destroyed them, put them in a ghetto for nine months,

Fr. Serop (00:19:45):

that's not.

Fr. Serop (00:19:46):

Of course, this is the unfortunate and ludicrous.

Asbed (00:19:53):

This is very important background.

Asbed (00:19:55):

So how is it that this has translated to some kind of a beef that Pashinyan has

Asbed (00:20:00):

with the Armenian church?

Fr. Serop (00:20:02):

Right, I was going to come to that.

Fr. Serop (00:20:03):

I apologize.

Fr. Serop (00:20:04):

So what happened is this,

Fr. Serop (00:20:05):

that the church was the final strong point that was remaining against him.

Fr. Serop (00:20:11):

I was right about to say that.

Fr. Serop (00:20:13):

So the church is the final pillar that didn't bend in front of him.

Fr. Serop (00:20:18):

The church did not get destroyed.

Fr. Serop (00:20:19):

And he forgot one thing,

Fr. Serop (00:20:20):

that the church is not only in Armenia,

Fr. Serop (00:20:22):

whereas he has the police power,

Fr. Serop (00:20:24):

the internal security,

Fr. Serop (00:20:26):

the foreign powers that are supporting him from the West,

Fr. Serop (00:20:29):

from Turkey,

Fr. Serop (00:20:30):

from Azerbaijan,

Fr. Serop (00:20:31):

from Britain,

Fr. Serop (00:20:32):

from Israel too,

Fr. Serop (00:20:34):

and from all these nations that are supporting him.

Fr. Serop (00:20:37):

And basically, the church is all over the world.

Fr. Serop (00:20:41):

It's the most important and the most foundational, you know, aspect of us being an Armenian.

Fr. Serop (00:20:49):

Ask a Greek if you're like,

Fr. Serop (00:20:52):

for example, a Greek person does not say,

Fr. Serop (00:20:54):

this is for the sake of education for everyone.

Fr. Serop (00:20:56):

If you ask a Greek, if he's a Greek, he doesn't ask if he's a Greek or not.

Fr. Serop (00:21:01):

He says, are you Orthodox?

Fr. Serop (00:21:03):

That's how a Greek asks another Greek, are you Orthodox?

Fr. Serop (00:21:05):

And he knows he's a Greek.

Fr. Serop (00:21:07):

If he says no, then he ceases to be Greek.

Fr. Serop (00:21:10):

in his eyes.

Fr. Serop (00:21:12):

And I've seen this in my life here in the United States for all the 38 years that

Fr. Serop (00:21:15):

I've lived here.

Fr. Serop (00:21:16):

So as an Armenian, I belong to the Armenian Apostolic Church.

Fr. Serop (00:21:20):

Of course, I'm not trying to belittle my brothers and sisters who probably might belong to the

Fr. Serop (00:21:24):

Armenian Catholic Church or Armenian evangelical churches.

Fr. Serop (00:21:27):

They are my brethren.

Fr. Serop (00:21:28):

However, this is our church and this is our foundation.

Fr. Serop (00:21:32):

If it, let's suppose,

Fr. Serop (00:21:33):

if it ceases to exist and Pashinyan is trying to do that,

Fr. Serop (00:21:37):

taking his orders from Pashazadeh in Baku,

Fr. Serop (00:21:41):

He's taking orders, direct orders.

Asbed (00:21:43):

Absolutely.

Fr. Serop (00:21:44):

Therefore,

Fr. Serop (00:21:45):

if he succeeds by what he's doing right now,

Fr. Serop (00:21:48):

and I do not call them renegade bishops,

Fr. Serop (00:21:51):

I call them rebellious bishops.

Fr. Serop (00:21:53):

They are rebellious.

Fr. Serop (00:21:54):

They are not renegades.

Hovik (00:21:55):

I think Mikayel Srpazan had a good term for it.

Fr. Serop (00:21:58):

Yeah, of course.

Fr. Serop (00:22:01):

I mean, they are traitors, basically.

Fr. Serop (00:22:03):

Basically, the Armenian word for traitors of authority.

Fr. Serop (00:22:06):

Armenian Church is not an organization of democracy.

Fr. Serop (00:22:11):

The Armenian Church is not an organization that this or that person has a right to

Fr. Serop (00:22:15):

come up and say something.

Fr. Serop (00:22:17):

Armenian Church is a theocracy.

Fr. Serop (00:22:20):

And if they do not like it, let them go and find themselves another place to be worshiping God.

Fr. Serop (00:22:25):

This is not the place.

Fr. Serop (00:22:26):

The Catholic Church is the same.

Fr. Serop (00:22:27):

The Orthodox Church is the same.

Fr. Serop (00:22:29):

The Armenian Apostolic Church is a theocracy, although it has democratic rules that it goes by.

Fr. Serop (00:22:36):

It cannot be deemed otherwise.

Fr. Serop (00:22:38):

No one in the world can come up and say,

Fr. Serop (00:22:40):

Oh, I do not like the Catholicos,

Fr. Serop (00:22:41):

we have to change them.

Fr. Serop (00:22:43):

Okay, so lots of people do not like Pope Leo.

Fr. Serop (00:22:47):

Lots of people did not like Pope Francis,

Fr. Serop (00:22:49):

but they did not have the right to come up and say,

Fr. Serop (00:22:51):

I want to change the Pope.

Fr. Serop (00:22:54):

Who are you to say that?

Fr. Serop (00:22:56):

Who gave you the right authority,

Fr. Serop (00:22:58):

canonical,

Fr. Serop (00:22:59):

ecclesiastical,

Fr. Serop (00:23:00):

on whatever reason that you can come up with,

Fr. Serop (00:23:03):

even if it's that you belong to a prime ministership of a republic,

Fr. Serop (00:23:08):

which can be barely seen on the world map,

Fr. Serop (00:23:11):

to come up and change the authority of almost eight million Armenians,

Fr. Serop (00:23:15):

or more.

Fr. Serop (00:23:16):

I say more because I don't know the exact number of Armenians, no one knows.

Fr. Serop (00:23:20):

I count them probably between eight and nine million, not more.

Fr. Serop (00:23:24):

Okay,

Fr. Serop (00:23:25):

but the majority of these people probably accept,

Fr. Serop (00:23:29):

even if they are atheists or non-religious,

Fr. Serop (00:23:32):

some of them are non-traditionalists,

Fr. Serop (00:23:34):

some of them go to church maybe once a year,

Fr. Serop (00:23:36):

some of them never go,

Fr. Serop (00:23:37):

but they acknowledge Catholicos Garegin II to be the Catholicos of all Armenians,

Fr. Serop (00:23:42):

the man who is the pillar who brought us throughout 1700 years and even before,

Fr. Serop (00:23:48):

from the time of the Roman Empire all the way to this time.

Fr. Serop (00:23:52):

Therefore, who is he?

Fr. Serop (00:23:54):

An unelected rascal,

Fr. Serop (00:23:59):

I would say,

Fr. Serop (00:24:00):

who probably doesn't even know the two pages of church history,

Fr. Serop (00:24:06):

who doesn't,

Fr. Serop (00:24:07):

haven't even read the Bible in his life,

Fr. Serop (00:24:10):

who has all type of manipulations that he came up with in order to cheat and treat

Fr. Serop (00:24:15):

people like trash.

Fr. Serop (00:24:17):

And we know I can give you dozens of examples of that.

Fr. Serop (00:24:21):

And now he comes and wants to change our Holy Father.

Fr. Serop (00:24:26):

I'm not saying that the Holy Father doesn't have faults.

Fr. Serop (00:24:28):

We all do.

Fr. Serop (00:24:30):

I do first. I'm the first man.

Fr. Serop (00:24:32):

I'm a sinner.

Fr. Serop (00:24:33):

But no one has the right to come up with sort of bogus excuses to come and say,

Fr. Serop (00:24:40):

I want to change the Catholicos.

Fr. Serop (00:24:41):

Man enough, go and change the Pope if you can.

Fr. Serop (00:24:44):

The Prime Minister of Italy, Meloni, cannot change the Pope.

Fr. Serop (00:24:48):

Who are you to change the Catholicos?

Asbed (00:24:49):

Der Serop?

Asbed (00:24:51):

Given everything that you are saying,

Asbed (00:24:53):

do you think Pashinyan's motivations are personal vendetta or are they

Asbed (00:24:57):

geopolitical?

Asbed (00:24:58):

Because you did mention that he gets his signals from abroad.

Asbed (00:25:02):

So which one is more of a factor for us?

Fr. Serop (00:25:06):

Thank you. I will give you the concrete answer to this question.

Fr. Serop (00:25:10):

What's happening in the church today is not between Pashinyan and the Catholicos.

Fr. Serop (00:25:15):

This is between Pashazadeh and our Holy Father.

Fr. Serop (00:25:20):

Pashazadeh is the root problem.

Fr. Serop (00:25:22):

Pashazadeh in Baku,

Fr. Serop (00:25:24):

who is the Sheikh of Islam of Azerbaijan,

Fr. Serop (00:25:27):

has ordered that Catholicos Karakin II should be removed.

Fr. Serop (00:25:30):

Why?

Fr. Serop (00:25:31):

If you look at his statements in May of 2025,

Fr. Serop (00:25:36):

accused the armenian apostolic church are they hearing me those renegade or not

Fr. Serop (00:25:41):

those rebellious bishops he accused the armenian apostolic church of terrorism that

Fr. Serop (00:25:48):

we are terrorists in his view i and whoever is wearing this cassock is a terrorist

Fr. Serop (00:25:53):

if that's the case well i consider every azerbaijani you know clergyman as a

Fr. Serop (00:25:58):

terrorist himself because they have terrorized my nation for more than 100 years

Fr. Serop (00:26:03):

they have been in existence even before 1918

Fr. Serop (00:26:07):

Anyone who knows Turkish history,

Fr. Serop (00:26:09):

and I'm saying anyone,

Fr. Serop (00:26:11):

because 31 nations who were subjugated to Ottoman rule since 1300,

Fr. Serop (00:26:15):

they know exactly what a Turk is.

Fr. Serop (00:26:19):

I'm not trying to belittle any Turk.

Fr. Serop (00:26:21):

I'm just trying to let them look at their history.

Fr. Serop (00:26:24):

Let them not even read me.

Fr. Serop (00:26:25):

I'm an Armenian.

Fr. Serop (00:26:26):

Fine. They will say you're biased.

Fr. Serop (00:26:27):

Let them go and read the statement that was said this last week by Taner Akşam, who said,

Fr. Serop (00:26:35):

that the Turkish history is basically based on conquering,

Fr. Serop (00:26:39):

taking over,

Fr. Serop (00:26:41):

forcefully changing,

Fr. Serop (00:26:42):

you know,

Fr. Serop (00:26:43):

converting.

Fr. Serop (00:26:46):

One small question to any Turkish person who's listening to me.

Fr. Serop (00:26:50):

Please count the amount of mosques inside Turkey that were churches.

Fr. Serop (00:26:56):

Count them.

Fr. Serop (00:26:58):

How many do you find?

Fr. Serop (00:27:00):

Therefore, let them not accuse us of anything.

Fr. Serop (00:27:02):

Let them look at the religious terrorism they have inflicted upon our nations,

Fr. Serop (00:27:05):

31 nations that were under the rule of the Ottomans.

Fr. Serop (00:27:09):

Armenia today,

Fr. Serop (00:27:10):

and to sum it up,

Fr. Serop (00:27:12):

Armenia today,

Fr. Serop (00:27:13):

if you look at the map,

Fr. Serop (00:27:15):

is surrounded by four nations,

Fr. Serop (00:27:17):

Georgia,

Fr. Serop (00:27:18):

Azerbaijan,

Fr. Serop (00:27:19):

Iran, Turkey.

Fr. Serop (00:27:21):

But if you look at it from a linguistic and geopolitical way,

Fr. Serop (00:27:25):

it is surrounded by all Azerbaijani speakers.

Fr. Serop (00:27:29):

In Azerbaijan, there are Azerbaijani speakers.

Fr. Serop (00:27:30):

In northern Iran, there are all Azerbaijani speakers.

Fr. Serop (00:27:33):

In eastern Turkey, there are constantly and increasingly Azerbaijani speakers.

Fr. Serop (00:27:37):

And in the northern part of Armenia, inside Georgia, there are Azerbaijani speakers.

Fr. Serop (00:27:43):

guess where do they want to take next in order to establish their so-called

Fr. Serop (00:27:48):

Azerbaijani empire,

Fr. Serop (00:27:50):

meaning empire.

Fr. Serop (00:27:51):

And this is what Armenians are failing to see.

Fr. Serop (00:27:54):

Instead of seeing the sin of a man here or a sin of a man over there,

Fr. Serop (00:27:58):

let them first of all look at this.

Fr. Serop (00:28:00):

Let them first of all see what's going on when they want to divide Armenia by

Fr. Serop (00:28:04):

cutting it from Iran,

Fr. Serop (00:28:06):

in other words, our breathing tube,

Fr. Serop (00:28:09):

and then cutting it from Georgia and making Armenia an even worse case of Artsakh

Fr. Serop (00:28:15):

surrounded by Azeri-speaking,

Fr. Serop (00:28:17):

Turkish-speaking nation.

Fr. Serop (00:28:18):

Because Azerbaijan as a nation is an extension of Turkey,

Fr. Serop (00:28:22):

not a separate nation,

Fr. Serop (00:28:23):

a nation bent on destroying the Armenian existence on our native land.

Asbed (00:28:28):

I want to ask you about the renaming of the church.

Asbed (00:28:33):

As you know, Pashinyan is trying to rename the country into real Armenia.

Asbed (00:28:37):

He's trying to rename the Third Republic to the Fourth Republic.

Asbed (00:28:42):

He has this urge.

Asbed (00:28:44):

He has said that he wants to rename the Armenian church from the Armenian Apostolic

Asbed (00:28:49):

Church to the Apostolic Church of Armenia.

Asbed (00:28:51):

Tell us a little bit about the difference in this.

Fr. Serop (00:28:54):

He can rename something.

Fr. Serop (00:28:55):

For example, if you can take a package,

Fr. Serop (00:28:58):

that he wants to repackage it in his name,

Fr. Serop (00:29:00):

any package,

Fr. Serop (00:29:01):

he can put a label on it and rename it something else,

Fr. Serop (00:29:04):

and thus create his church,

Fr. Serop (00:29:07):

which will be basically away from our canons,

Fr. Serop (00:29:09):

our laws,

Fr. Serop (00:29:10):

our patristic

Fr. Serop (00:29:13):

rules that were put on by the church for centuries behind as i said pashinyan

Fr. Serop (00:29:18):

didn't even read two pages of church history he doesn't he's not even familiar with

Fr. Serop (00:29:22):

the biblical ecclesiastical patristic canons and rules that were put by the

Fr. Serop (00:29:28):

churchman by the clergy throughout the centuries and he wants to establish

Fr. Serop (00:29:32):

something of course with the auspices and the blessing of the western government

Fr. Serop (00:29:36):

because they want to basically see armenia

Fr. Serop (00:29:39):

and they do not care if Armenia exists or not,

Fr. Serop (00:29:42):

just the Armenians fight or turn against their enemy,

Fr. Serop (00:29:46):

Russia.

Fr. Serop (00:29:47):

Of course, they haven't learned what happened to Ukraine,

Fr. Serop (00:29:50):

the Ukrainians which have paid for them.

Fr. Serop (00:29:52):

And of course, in Ukraine, they have the same situation.

Fr. Serop (00:29:55):

Ukraine and Orthodox Church was split.

Fr. Serop (00:29:57):

The one that was under the Moscow Patriarchate was

Fr. Serop (00:30:01):

divided,

Fr. Serop (00:30:02):

and another portion of it was put under the auspices of,

Fr. Serop (00:30:06):

or recognition,

Fr. Serop (00:30:07):

of the Patriarchate of Constantinople.

Fr. Serop (00:30:11):

The same happened in Moldova, and the same thing will happen in Armenia.

Fr. Serop (00:30:15):

They tried to attempt the same thing in Georgia, but they failed.

Fr. Serop (00:30:18):

The Georgian Orthodox Church was cognizant enough not to do that,

Fr. Serop (00:30:23):

and they are trying to succeed in Armenia when they are supposed to be anathemized

Fr. Serop (00:30:27):

for what they're doing.

Fr. Serop (00:30:30):

And I do not know what's the delay in Etchmiyazin,

Fr. Serop (00:30:33):

but I'm sure that the response will come,

Fr. Serop (00:30:35):

and forcefully will come,

Fr. Serop (00:30:36):

from His Holiness,

Fr. Serop (00:30:37):

Karikin II,

Fr. Serop (00:30:39):

Catholicos of all Armenians.

Fr. Serop (00:30:41):

he will forcefully respond to this type of illegitimate movements that are trying

Fr. Serop (00:30:47):

to destroy our Orthodox faith,

Fr. Serop (00:30:49):

our Armenian apostolic faith.

Fr. Serop (00:30:51):

Because if he is trying to declare not the fourth,

Fr. Serop (00:30:55):

probably he can declare the seventh or eighth republic if he wants to.

Fr. Serop (00:30:58):

If he remains, he can go to jail and declare the 14th republic if he wants to.

Fr. Serop (00:31:02):

But what I'm trying to be more...

Fr. Serop (00:31:08):

worried about is the welfare of our people, the oneness of our people.

Fr. Serop (00:31:12):

He's trying to divide us always.

Fr. Serop (00:31:14):

Look at it this way.

Fr. Serop (00:31:15):

This man has nothing else except to lie, separate, divide, and conquer.

Asbed (00:31:21):

The division that you mentioned really concerns me.

Asbed (00:31:24):

If this suddenly becomes the apostolic church of Armenia,

Asbed (00:31:29):

where am I left in this story in the diaspora?

Fr. Serop (00:31:32):

There will be no apostolic church in Armenia at all.

Fr. Serop (00:31:35):

there will be only the Armenian Apostolic Holy Church consecrated by our books

Fr. Serop (00:31:43):

consecrated by our Holy Fathers

Fr. Serop (00:31:46):

not by someone who takes his orders from Baku and comes up with a bogus church

Fr. Serop (00:31:51):

among the legitimate original church.

Fr. Serop (00:31:54):

Look at it this way.

Fr. Serop (00:31:55):

There are certain Catholic people now that do not accept the legitimacy of the

Fr. Serop (00:32:00):

Pope, and they have a small,

Fr. Serop (00:32:01):

radical,

Fr. Serop (00:32:02):

renegade,

Fr. Serop (00:32:04):

heretical churches around.

Fr. Serop (00:32:06):

This will be most likely a heretical movement, and it is.

Fr. Serop (00:32:09):

This will be a schismatic movement.

Fr. Serop (00:32:11):

It will be denied and anathemized by the church.

Fr. Serop (00:32:14):

And even if they take not 10, let them take 50 bishops with them.

Fr. Serop (00:32:19):

The Armenian Apostolic Church will remain strong and it will not budge.

Fr. Serop (00:32:24):

I can say this to you.

Fr. Serop (00:32:25):

We will not budge,

Fr. Serop (00:32:27):

we will not bend,

Fr. Serop (00:32:28):

we will not stop our fight against this type of evil that is trying to destroy our

Fr. Serop (00:32:34):

holy church.

Asbed (00:32:36):

Well, I'm afraid that if this sect or this schismatic situation lasts,

Asbed (00:32:42):

the next step will be to close down all of the dioceses around the world because

Asbed (00:32:47):

there's no place for them outside of Armenia.

Fr. Serop (00:32:50):

Let me tell you.

Asbed (00:32:51):

So that's a division between the diaspora and the republic itself.

Fr. Serop (00:32:55):

Well, let me tell you this.

Fr. Serop (00:32:56):

I mean, even today,

Fr. Serop (00:32:57):

before coming on this air,

Fr. Serop (00:32:59):

there were three, four priests in Armenia that they have declared all of a sudden their allegiance to

Fr. Serop (00:33:04):

the,

Fr. Serop (00:33:05):

you know, rebellious movement.

Fr. Serop (00:33:07):

Okay.

Fr. Serop (00:33:09):

And you have to know that there is rumors going around that every one of them is

Fr. Serop (00:33:13):

being paid 5 million drams,

Fr. Serop (00:33:14):

which is about $13,000.

Fr. Serop (00:33:17):

well we know the situation in Armenia some priests are hungry and they don't have

Fr. Serop (00:33:21):

the means and some of them of course can probably don't have the any kind of

Fr. Serop (00:33:26):

dignity human dignity or priestly you know dignity to keep up their priesthood

Fr. Serop (00:33:31):

alive and they sell their cross for money

Fr. Serop (00:33:35):

they become Judas, and they become traitor.

Fr. Serop (00:33:40):

Fine, I mean, let them do so.

Fr. Serop (00:33:42):

If that's what they believe, let them do so.

Fr. Serop (00:33:45):

But the dioceses inside or outside Armenia will not be closed.

Fr. Serop (00:33:49):

And if you look at the bylaws of the National Ecclesiastical Assembly,

Fr. Serop (00:33:57):

Azgayin Yegeghetsagan Zhoghov,

Fr. Serop (00:34:00):

and the diocesan,

Fr. Serop (00:34:01):

any diocesan,

Fr. Serop (00:34:02):

tema or diocese,

Fr. Serop (00:34:05):

you will see that the Catholicos has the final say in any

Fr. Serop (00:34:12):

diocesan primate or priest or their actions because he is the final or the upper

Fr. Serop (00:34:19):

priest he is the supreme patriarch and Catholicos of all Armenians that we when we

Fr. Serop (00:34:27):

get ordained even during ordination we give our solemn oath to also in other words

Fr. Serop (00:34:36):

that we will follow his rules and his directives

Fr. Serop (00:34:40):

as Armenian priests.

Fr. Serop (00:34:42):

If you change all of a sudden, that means you have gone back on your oath.

Fr. Serop (00:34:46):

Because in that case,

Fr. Serop (00:34:47):

tomorrow,

Fr. Serop (00:34:48):

let's say, if a Muslim comes and rules over Etchmiadzin,

Fr. Serop (00:34:51):

even,

Fr. Serop (00:34:52):

let's say, a sheikh comes and takes over,

Fr. Serop (00:34:54):

do I have to follow his rules?

Fr. Serop (00:34:57):

I follow the legitimacy of the church, not anyone who is standing somewhere.

Fr. Serop (00:35:03):

The legitimacy of the church by the apostolic succession has come from the time of St.

Fr. Serop (00:35:08):

Gregory the Illuminator,

Fr. Serop (00:35:10):

going down throughout the centuries,

Fr. Serop (00:35:12):

ending up before him with Catholicoi,

Fr. Serop (00:35:16):

Georg VI,

Fr. Serop (00:35:17):

Vaskin I,

Fr. Serop (00:35:18):

Garegin I,

Fr. Serop (00:35:19):

and now Garegin II,

Fr. Serop (00:35:21):

and none other.

Fr. Serop (00:35:23):

There is a legitimacy that follows each other.

Fr. Serop (00:35:26):

Well, now they're saying that he's not legitimate, excuse me, in 1999, since 1999.

Asbed (00:35:33):

After 26 years.

Fr. Serop (00:35:35):

Where have you been?

Fr. Serop (00:35:36):

Why were you silent?

Fr. Serop (00:35:37):

Now who is not legitimate?

Fr. Serop (00:35:39):

Because somebody paid you or because you had a deviant or hidden agenda?

Fr. Serop (00:35:43):

In that case, you should be thrown out of the church.

Fr. Serop (00:35:46):

You don't belong in the army.

Hovik (00:35:49):

Talking about some of the rebellious bishops, I do want to go a little bit more into details.

Hovik (00:35:56):

They have made, I believe, at least three separate public statements.

Hovik (00:36:02):

And the first statement, I remember very vividly, it was complaining that...

Hovik (00:36:09):

There was this bishop who they believed was immoral and they blamed the Vehapar for

Hovik (00:36:16):

failing to defrock him or discipline him.

Hovik (00:36:24):

But more and more the statements became more direct and now the last one is

Hovik (00:36:32):

Basically,

Hovik (00:36:33):

they are saying that,

Hovik (00:36:36):

first of all, it was cosigned by Pashinyan,

Hovik (00:36:38):

but it straight out said that the Catholicos would be sent to rest.

Hovik (00:36:46):

Forgive me for saying those words.

Hovik (00:36:49):

I don't want to even go into the fake videos or fake evidence that

Hovik (00:36:57):

that hasn't been proven against the original bishop who they claimed or who they

Hovik (00:37:02):

pretend to be the immoral one.

Hovik (00:37:04):

But another curious fact is that this list of bishops seems to have a hierarchy.

Hovik (00:37:12):

The list,

Hovik (00:37:13):

the statements are always topped by Archbishop Hovnan Derderyan,

Hovik (00:37:17):

who is the primate of the Western Diocese of the Armenian Church.

Hovik (00:37:20):

of North America.

Hovik (00:37:22):

And since he's not in Armenia,

Hovik (00:37:24):

someone always signs in his stead,

Hovik (00:37:28):

but he has never rejected his name appearing on this list.

Hovik (00:37:33):

And we have to assume that at one point that he is

Hovik (00:37:37):

he has given his approval, his permission for these statements to be signed in his place.

Hovik (00:37:43):

So what is the significance of Archbishop Derderian's involvement in this affair?

Hovik (00:37:49):

Why is his name always listed first in these statements?

Fr. Serop (00:37:53):

Well, his name is stated first.

Fr. Serop (00:37:54):

I mean, it will start with Archbishop Derderian.

Fr. Serop (00:37:56):

His name is stated first because he has the rank.

Fr. Serop (00:37:58):

He has the seniority in the bishopry.

Fr. Serop (00:38:00):

If you look at the bishops, of course, whoever gets ordained first gets the seniority.

Fr. Serop (00:38:05):

So he was ordained in 1980 as a celibate priest, and in 1990 he became a bishop.

Fr. Serop (00:38:10):

So he is much more older and more senior than the other bishops.

Fr. Serop (00:38:14):

Therefore, they go by seniority.

Fr. Serop (00:38:16):

But why is he not denying it or admitting to this phenomenon?

Fr. Serop (00:38:23):

Well, I'm sorry, somebody has to ask him, I guess, not me.

Fr. Serop (00:38:27):

Okay, I have, of course, answered this multiple times before.

Fr. Serop (00:38:31):

But Archbishop Derderian,

Fr. Serop (00:38:32):

by not coming up with any kind of public statement defending his position,

Fr. Serop (00:38:38):

or admitting or denying it,

Fr. Serop (00:38:39):

he's basically trying to,

Fr. Serop (00:38:41):

I don't know,

Fr. Serop (00:38:42):

Maybe ask the others to do the hard work, I guess.

Fr. Serop (00:38:45):

Maybe.

Fr. Serop (00:38:46):

I'm not sure.

Fr. Serop (00:38:47):

Maybe because there was a lot of newspapers,

Fr. Serop (00:38:51):

not many,

Fr. Serop (00:38:52):

not little,

Fr. Serop (00:38:53):

many newspapers that came up and said that he is the obvious next candidate,

Fr. Serop (00:39:00):

the candidate of the current regime.

Fr. Serop (00:39:03):

Okay, if that's the case, he will be a renegade or an antipope.

Fr. Serop (00:39:08):

if he's elected, let's say.

Fr. Serop (00:39:10):

Let's suppose that Pashinyan, despite whatever the whole world says, he will elect him.

Fr. Serop (00:39:14):

Okay, he will be an antipope.

Fr. Serop (00:39:16):

Basically, anathemized by the current pope.

Fr. Serop (00:39:19):

Okay, let him choose.

Fr. Serop (00:39:21):

I mean, it's up to him.

Fr. Serop (00:39:22):

He knows, by the way, he is not a young man.

Fr. Serop (00:39:25):

He knows the church history very well.

Fr. Serop (00:39:27):

He knows that in order to obtain a...

Fr. Serop (00:39:33):

You know what a cathedra is?

Fr. Serop (00:39:35):

In ecclesiastical terminology, cathedra is the chair.

Fr. Serop (00:39:40):

Because when the Pope speaks in Rome, he speaks ex cathedra.

Fr. Serop (00:39:44):

If he gets the cathedra, let's say, he will be denied the blessing of the Armenian people.

Fr. Serop (00:39:50):

or the acceptance of the Armenian people as their Catholicos and he will be put on

Fr. Serop (00:39:55):

the list of those long list of anti-popes which we had you know since Akhtamar in

Fr. Serop (00:40:01):

1100s and all the way down to the point that we had renegade Catholicos in artsakh

Fr. Serop (00:40:07):

in Dashir in other places i know church history very well so... and I can elaborate

Fr. Serop (00:40:13):

about that coming back to the um

Fr. Serop (00:40:16):

previous question that was asked about the bishop and the video,

Fr. Serop (00:40:23):

so-called video,

Fr. Serop (00:40:24):

based on which...

Hovik (00:40:26):

By the way,

Hovik (00:40:27):

these bishops claim to be very moral,

Hovik (00:40:29):

so please address their morality.

Fr. Serop (00:40:31):

I will, I will, before I forget the question and the context that I would like to answer it in.

Fr. Serop (00:40:38):

Let me tell you this, that...

Fr. Serop (00:40:41):

If the video, so-called video, which I haven't seen.

Fr. Serop (00:40:43):

Me neither.

Fr. Serop (00:40:47):

But if I would see it,

Fr. Serop (00:40:48):

I will tell you that if it has AI,

Fr. Serop (00:40:51):

artificial intelligence making it or not.

Fr. Serop (00:40:54):

Okay, let me tell you this way.

Fr. Serop (00:40:56):

I mean,

Fr. Serop (00:40:57):

in this age of AI,

Fr. Serop (00:40:58):

when I was in a student in university not too long ago,

Fr. Serop (00:41:01):

they called it this information superhighway back then.

Fr. Serop (00:41:04):

Nowadays, it's the age of AI.

Fr. Serop (00:41:06):

And imagine in 10 years from now,

Fr. Serop (00:41:08):

AI will develop so much.

Fr. Serop (00:41:10):

I tell this to everyone who are listening to me,

Fr. Serop (00:41:13):

so much that you will not distinguish reality from AI at all.

Fr. Serop (00:41:17):

A video that will be made, it's as if it is exactly the same person doing something.

Fr. Serop (00:41:23):

And therefore,

Fr. Serop (00:41:24):

first, before we start,

Fr. Serop (00:41:26):

before we start answering this question,

Fr. Serop (00:41:28):

let me put it this way.

Fr. Serop (00:41:30):

I am a court interpreter, okay?

Fr. Serop (00:41:33):

Tomorrow,

Fr. Serop (00:41:35):

If somebody can make a video about a case of a person raping or killing someone and

Fr. Serop (00:41:42):

presenting that as an evidence in court,

Fr. Serop (00:41:45):

will court be compelled to understand this is AI or not?

Fr. Serop (00:41:49):

That's number one.

Fr. Serop (00:41:50):

Number two,

Fr. Serop (00:41:51):

if Archbishop Arshak Khachatryan,

Fr. Serop (00:41:53):

let's suppose he had his face and his features made up so well and then presented

Fr. Serop (00:41:59):

to the people as if it's a reality,

Fr. Serop (00:42:01):

when he denied doing this,

Fr. Serop (00:42:03):

On the other hand,

Fr. Serop (00:42:04):

I heard that,

Fr. Serop (00:42:05):

and I read two days ago,

Fr. Serop (00:42:07):

that they said if Archbishop Khachatryan will join them,

Fr. Serop (00:42:11):

he will not be at all accused of anything even seven years ago.

Fr. Serop (00:42:17):

Oh, seven years ago!

Fr. Serop (00:42:20):

By putting a small bag of dope into somebody's bag or into somebody's pocket.

Fr. Serop (00:42:26):

okay in that case somebody can accuse me, Fr. Serop, of being in Ford's theater in

Fr. Serop (00:42:33):

1865 April 14 and I was the one assassinating president Lincoln, not john

Fr. Serop (00:42:40):

Wilkes Booth. They can accuse me of being in Dallas, Texas on November 22nd, 1963 and

Fr. Serop (00:42:46):

I was the one shooting president Kennedy and running over when i wasn't even born

Fr. Serop (00:42:52):

back then of course ai can do that their setup

Fr. Serop (00:42:56):

Let me also ask Apollo 11.

Fr. Serop (00:42:58):

I was on the moon running.

Asbed (00:43:00):

I have also not seen this video.

Asbed (00:43:01):

It appears that this video is only seen by the NSS who have called it.

Asbed (00:43:06):

They verified it and it's real.

Asbed (00:43:09):

But the funny thing is, even in their claims, there is no crime there.

Asbed (00:43:14):

There's a question of trying to do character assassination on Fr. Arshak.

Asbed (00:43:20):

But who died and made the government the judge of morality in the society?

Asbed (00:43:26):

Shouldn't this government only come in for a crime?

Asbed (00:43:29):

And yet even in their allegations, there is no crime here.

Hovik (00:43:33):

Can I just say something?

Hovik (00:43:34):

Since you are a court interpreter, you know this.

Hovik (00:43:38):

I'm sorry, but Pashinyan should be the first in that case.

Hovik (00:43:42):

He has how many children?

Hovik (00:43:44):

Four children.

Hovik (00:43:45):

He has not been married neither as a civil marriage,

Hovik (00:43:49):

nor he has admitted that he hasn't been married in the church.

Hovik (00:43:54):

So all of his children are...

Asbed (00:43:58):

Yeah, let him come forth and show his baptism.

Asbed (00:44:02):

Let him come forth and show his baptism papers.

Fr. Serop (00:44:05):

Lots of people are alleging he's baptized.

Fr. Serop (00:44:07):

Okay, but baptism... Let's see it.

Fr. Serop (00:44:10):

First of all, I even posted my questions on my page many times, months ago.

Fr. Serop (00:44:15):

Okay, but the most important thing,

Fr. Serop (00:44:16):

if he's an honest and spiritual Christian,

Fr. Serop (00:44:19):

where he has been all these years?

Fr. Serop (00:44:22):

Which churches did he attend prior to this?

Fr. Serop (00:44:25):

Which church you used to take Holy Communion regularly with?

Fr. Serop (00:44:29):

I told you, any Greek, ask them, if you ask a Greek, what are you?

Fr. Serop (00:44:33):

They ask him, are you Orthodox or are you not?

Fr. Serop (00:44:36):

If they say not, that means they even consider them non-Greek.

Fr. Serop (00:44:41):

Any Greek is identified as Orthodox first.

Fr. Serop (00:44:44):

If I ask an Armenian, of course, we're not, unfortunately, in that spiritual height.

Fr. Serop (00:44:48):

We're not.

Fr. Serop (00:44:49):

Even in Georgia,

Fr. Serop (00:44:50):

they have respect to the Georgian clergy far more beyond us because they have,

Fr. Serop (00:44:56):

in the past 30 years, they have developed their spirituality in higher and fast paces.

Fr. Serop (00:45:00):

Unfortunately, in Armenia, we haven't.

Fr. Serop (00:45:02):

This is a shortcoming on our part.

Fr. Serop (00:45:05):

But Pashinyan,

Fr. Serop (00:45:06):

if he says that this bishop has done something wrong,

Fr. Serop (00:45:11):

based on which,

Fr. Serop (00:45:12):

and of course the rebellious ones,

Fr. Serop (00:45:15):

they're saying that,

Fr. Serop (00:45:16):

oh,

Fr. Serop (00:45:17):

Bishop Arshak Khachatryan should be defrocked because what he did,

Fr. Serop (00:45:21):

which is not proven yet.

Fr. Serop (00:45:22):

I said, not proven.

Fr. Serop (00:45:24):

I told you from the court cases,

Fr. Serop (00:45:26):

if anyone comes up with a video,

Fr. Serop (00:45:28):

in fact, yesterday, just yesterday,

Fr. Serop (00:45:29):

I was in court,

Fr. Serop (00:45:30):

family court,

Fr. Serop (00:45:32):

And someone came up with a video,

Fr. Serop (00:45:35):

with a video based on,

Fr. Serop (00:45:37):

of course, I'm not going to name them,

Fr. Serop (00:45:38):

based on a custody case.

Fr. Serop (00:45:41):

And the judge cannot make any kind of admittance or acceptance to a case,

Fr. Serop (00:45:47):

even if it's a video,

Fr. Serop (00:45:48):

without having it proven that it involved any kind of family violence.

Fr. Serop (00:45:53):

Therefore, I mean, these things in Armenia, people are not familiar.

Fr. Serop (00:45:56):

Anything said, they believe it, because it's coming from above.

Fr. Serop (00:45:59):

But let me say this.

Fr. Serop (00:46:00):

Anything that comes from above,

Fr. Serop (00:46:04):

from the government they say it, some people are ready to believe it.

Fr. Serop (00:46:08):

Even if Pashinyan says that Muhammad is God,

Fr. Serop (00:46:11):

when he is not,

Fr. Serop (00:46:12):

he is the prophet of Islam,

Fr. Serop (00:46:13):

they will say yes,

Fr. Serop (00:46:14):

he is.

Fr. Serop (00:46:15):

Therefore, this type of stupidity has to disappear from us.

Fr. Serop (00:46:19):

Because let me tell you this,

Fr. Serop (00:46:20):

if those bishops which are alleging that Archbishop Khachatryan did something like

Fr. Serop (00:46:25):

that,

Fr. Serop (00:46:26):

okay let them please be kind enough especially two or three of them to give their

Fr. Serop (00:46:32):

children a DNA test let them let me see the DNA test as i'm talking about

Fr. Serop (00:46:38):

archbishop Karamyan i'm talking about archbishop Mirzakhanyan i'm talking about

Fr. Serop (00:46:44):

archbishops who have had different events that went on in their lives let the

Fr. Serop (00:46:51):

Mirzakhanyan who is being applauded by Pashinyan right now

Fr. Serop (00:46:55):

come up with the family of a priest that he destroyed and of course we have many

Fr. Serop (00:46:59):

many other cases in Georgia shameful shameful events in our church I am ashamed of

Fr. Serop (00:47:04):

reading things like this as an Armenian priest.

Fr. Serop (00:47:07):

And of course,

Fr. Serop (00:47:09):

as a married priest myself,

Fr. Serop (00:47:11):

I hold very high the values of our church and our nation.

Fr. Serop (00:47:15):

We cannot let this go on like this.

Fr. Serop (00:47:17):

And of course,

Fr. Serop (00:47:18):

maybe, I would say this,

Fr. Serop (00:47:19):

maybe Pashinyan's appearance was a blessing in a way,

Fr. Serop (00:47:22):

in one way,

Fr. Serop (00:47:23):

that he became the filter by the filth that he is,

Fr. Serop (00:47:28):

that the Armenian church will be filtered by even those priests who take five

Fr. Serop (00:47:33):

million dirham or 13 000 each one of them and they are ready to deny the blood of

Fr. Serop (00:47:37):

the martyrs who are sleeping now in all those youngsters without apologizing to one

Fr. Serop (00:47:45):

of them for the life that they have given for our nation for the life that they

Fr. Serop (00:47:49):

have put down for Armenia for the life that they have put for our future for our

Fr. Serop (00:47:54):

generations to come

Fr. Serop (00:47:56):

and they have the guts and the audacity to speak up these people have to be ashamed

Fr. Serop (00:48:01):

of themselves it's a shame that they're doing this I would never see a Muslim

Fr. Serop (00:48:11):

sheikh who would do something like this inside Islam I would never see a Jewish

Fr. Serop (00:48:16):

rabbi ever who would go against his synagogue because another rabbi have done

Fr. Serop (00:48:22):

something wrong

Fr. Serop (00:48:24):

And by the way,

Fr. Serop (00:48:26):

I am very well versed what's going on in Orthodox Jewish circles from New York all

Fr. Serop (00:48:31):

the way to California.

Fr. Serop (00:48:33):

I know shameful things that go on, rabbis and children.

Fr. Serop (00:48:36):

I know.

Fr. Serop (00:48:37):

Catholic Church, take the Catholic Church, for example.

Fr. Serop (00:48:41):

When the Catholic Church for decades have been fighting this unfortunate event

Fr. Serop (00:48:45):

that's called child abuse inside the church,

Fr. Serop (00:48:48):

did you see any Catholic priest or bishop who went against the papacy?

Fr. Serop (00:48:54):

who said that the Pope himself, who was somewhat complicit in everything that was going on.

Fr. Serop (00:48:59):

I'm talking about other Pope.

Fr. Serop (00:49:01):

I don't want to injure the feelings of any Catholic brother or sister,

Fr. Serop (00:49:06):

but it happened in the Catholic Church by which they lost many,

Fr. Serop (00:49:10):

many faithful who left the church and went to other places.

Fr. Serop (00:49:14):

seeing that in other places they have also events that are shameful.

Fr. Serop (00:49:18):

But now the Catholic Church is trying to correct itself and not Maloney,

Fr. Serop (00:49:23):

not the president of France,

Fr. Serop (00:49:25):

not the president of the United States,

Fr. Serop (00:49:27):

not the prime minister of Canada or the president of Brazil or Mexico,

Fr. Serop (00:49:32):

who are Catholics,

Fr. Serop (00:49:33):

okay,

Fr. Serop (00:49:34):

not the United States,

Fr. Serop (00:49:35):

of course, I'm talking about Joe Biden back then,

Fr. Serop (00:49:37):

who was Catholic,

Fr. Serop (00:49:38):

trying to correct the Catholic Church based on its mistakes.

Fr. Serop (00:49:41):

Nobody has the right to do that.

Fr. Serop (00:49:43):

This is a church event.

Fr. Serop (00:49:44):

It's an ecclesiastical event.

Fr. Serop (00:49:46):

Who is this street person who came from the street by 50 people,

Fr. Serop (00:49:49):

and now he's trying to change the fate of millions of Armenians?

Hovik (00:49:53):

Fr. Serop,

Hovik (00:49:54):

I do want to go into two items,

Hovik (00:49:56):

and we have...

Hovik (00:49:57):

This is a very interesting discussion,

Hovik (00:50:00):

which is why I feel bad about interrupting you,

Hovik (00:50:04):

but there are so many topics we want to discuss.

Hovik (00:50:08):

So just on the order of,

Hovik (00:50:12):

I guess, the rules of order,

Hovik (00:50:14):

some of the ten bishops,

Hovik (00:50:15):

I don't know if all of them,

Hovik (00:50:16):

but many of them,

Hovik (00:50:17):

I think,

Hovik (00:50:18):

are part of the Episcopal Assembly or Council.

Hovik (00:50:23):

What happens, right?

Hovik (00:50:26):

I mean, I'm not sure, but how would their...

Hovik (00:50:30):

Rebellion affect the quorum and the makeup of the national council that controls the church.

Hovik (00:50:40):

I mean, I forget the formal name for it.

Hovik (00:50:42):

Was that clear?

Fr. Serop (00:50:46):

Yeah, I understood the question completely.

Fr. Serop (00:50:49):

I understood the question.

Fr. Serop (00:50:51):

Right now, currently, the Armenian Apostolic Church,

Fr. Serop (00:50:53):

where the Holy See of Holy,

Fr. Serop (00:50:55):

the Mother See of Holy Echmiadzin,

Fr. Serop (00:50:58):

has 57 bishops right now.

Fr. Serop (00:51:01):

Ten of which have indicated their stance.

Fr. Serop (00:51:04):

And,

Fr. Serop (00:51:05):

of course, we have 47 others who,

Fr. Serop (00:51:08):

of course, have publicly,

Fr. Serop (00:51:10):

not all of them,

Fr. Serop (00:51:11):

but majority of them,

Fr. Serop (00:51:12):

about 38 or 39 counted them,

Fr. Serop (00:51:15):

in the latest episcopal declaration that was that they remain steadfastly by the

Fr. Serop (00:51:24):

side of Holy Etchmiadzin

Fr. Serop (00:51:26):

If 10 of them have done so,

Fr. Serop (00:51:28):

and of course now,

Fr. Serop (00:51:31):

just today,

Fr. Serop (00:51:32):

I've read three or four priests,

Fr. Serop (00:51:35):

one this past week in Switzerland,

Fr. Serop (00:51:38):

Father Geram,

Fr. Serop (00:51:39):

who based on personal,

Fr. Serop (00:51:42):

I would say,

Fr. Serop (00:51:43):

feelings,

Fr. Serop (00:51:44):

basically joined them because he wanted to have a rank or a place in the bishopry

Fr. Serop (00:51:49):

and of course it wasn't given to him he chose this path of destruction okay so if

Fr. Serop (00:51:56):

priests will do that after signing their names that they are loyal to the Armenian

Fr. Serop (00:52:00):

church by the way father Kegham who months ago have indicated that he's totally

Fr. Serop (00:52:06):

steadfastly loyal suddenly changed his you know and this is what's

Fr. Serop (00:52:12):

more, I would say, surprising and devastating for any Armenian to believe.

Fr. Serop (00:52:16):

If a father, a priest, you are a priest.

Fr. Serop (00:52:20):

And if you say something,

Fr. Serop (00:52:21):

people ought to believe you,

Fr. Serop (00:52:23):

not that you've changed your view all of a sudden.

Fr. Serop (00:52:25):

If you're silent,

Fr. Serop (00:52:26):

let's say,

Fr. Serop (00:52:27):

haven't said anything for months or previously ever,

Fr. Serop (00:52:31):

then people would give you that,

Fr. Serop (00:52:32):

okay, you haven't said something.

Fr. Serop (00:52:34):

But if you say something previously and then change your word suddenly and become

Fr. Serop (00:52:39):

something else,

Fr. Serop (00:52:41):

I'm sorry, these people are non-legitimate.

Fr. Serop (00:52:44):

Their word is basically, they have zero reputation.

Fr. Serop (00:52:49):

Their reputation is zero.

Fr. Serop (00:52:50):

Because if you say something that the people believe,

Fr. Serop (00:52:53):

and after months you change your views and come up with the opposite view,

Fr. Serop (00:52:58):

that means that you're not to be believed even in your divine liturgy when you give

Fr. Serop (00:53:01):

liturgy.

Fr. Serop (00:53:02):

How would I believe that you're giving forgiveness for my sin or releasing me from my sin?

Fr. Serop (00:53:07):

And how would I believe that you're giving me the true blessing of the Father when

Fr. Serop (00:53:11):

in fact you are a wolf inside trying to take opportunity in order to promote your

Fr. Serop (00:53:17):

own

Fr. Serop (00:53:18):

or sustain your own interests not the interest of the mother church what are what

Fr. Serop (00:53:23):

is a clergy for after all aren't we supposed to give our lives for the message of

Fr. Serop (00:53:27):

christ aren't we supposed to be the carriers of the cross and move on with it

Fr. Serop (00:53:32):

despite persecution despite uh isolation i mean take my case i've been isolated for

Fr. Serop (00:53:38):

all these years but i never given my my call

Fr. Serop (00:53:41):

I've never gone to become a coach of football.

Fr. Serop (00:53:45):

I haven't become a layman, which have paid me much more.

Fr. Serop (00:53:49):

I haven't become a banker, because people said, Father, you're not a good businessman.

Fr. Serop (00:53:53):

Well, I'm glad I'm not a good businessman.

Fr. Serop (00:53:55):

I did not choose to become a businessman.

Fr. Serop (00:53:57):

I chose to become a priest, and I chose to become a carrier of the cross.

Fr. Serop (00:54:02):

If they don't like it, then they are in the wrong church, and they are not orthodox.

Fr. Serop (00:54:07):

Orthodoxy means you have to be loyal to the end.

Fr. Serop (00:54:10):

If you're not loyal, take off your clothes.

Fr. Serop (00:54:13):

That's all I have to say.

Fr. Serop (00:54:14):

And if they cannot have the... To have the humanity to have that, what can I say?

Fr. Serop (00:54:19):

They're in the wrong place.

Hovik (00:54:29):

According to recent polls, the church is the number one institution that people trust.

Hovik (00:54:34):

Even after all these persecutions, 70-80% of Armenians support the Armenian Apostolic Church.

Hovik (00:54:41):

But it is clear, I think, to the naked eye that

Hovik (00:54:45):

the resources of the church are insufficient to address all of the ills of Armenian

Hovik (00:54:50):

society today.

Hovik (00:54:52):

So I want to actually address some of the reasons for that.

Hovik (00:54:56):

Because throughout history, churches have a tendency to accumulate property.

Hovik (00:55:01):

We can look at the Catholic Church,

Hovik (00:55:02):

which is known to be one of the largest landowners in the world.

Hovik (00:55:08):

The Armenian Apostolic Church unfortunately has been suffering greatly during some

Hovik (00:55:13):

of the imperial overlords that they've had,

Hovik (00:55:16):

namely the Ottoman Empire and also during the Soviet times the church in Armenia

Hovik (00:55:22):

was essentially gutted.

Hovik (00:55:24):

All property was confiscated by the respective empires and that took over the land.

Hovik (00:55:30):

Now, after independence, only some of the property was returned to the church.

Hovik (00:55:35):

For instance,

Hovik (00:55:36):

it is mentioned that entire cities,

Hovik (00:55:38):

I believe Archbishop Mikhail mentioned this,

Hovik (00:55:41):

that villages such as Mughni,

Hovik (00:55:44):

even the city of Vagharshapat,

Hovik (00:55:47):

used to belong to the Mother See,

Hovik (00:55:53):

including white swaths of land in Armenia.

Hovik (00:55:56):

The government of Georgia,

Hovik (00:55:57):

for instance,

Hovik (00:55:58):

pays yearly reparations for the injustices that the Georgian Orthodox Church has

Hovik (00:56:03):

suffered during the communist times.

Hovik (00:56:05):

Meanwhile,

Hovik (00:56:06):

the Armenian government,

Hovik (00:56:07):

most recently,

Hovik (00:56:08):

I think a few weeks ago,

Hovik (00:56:11):

further curtailed the ability of the Armenian Apostolic Church to acquire new

Hovik (00:56:15):

property.

Hovik (00:56:16):

They passed a law, it seems, in spite of, you know, as part of this fight against Etchmiadzin.

Hovik (00:56:24):

Can you tell us what is the potential impact of the church not having access to its

Hovik (00:56:30):

property in terms of being able to carry the word of Christ to the Armenian people?

Fr. Serop (00:56:36):

Well,

Fr. Serop (00:56:37):

as I mentioned previously,

Fr. Serop (00:56:39):

this is not in between the current government,

Fr. Serop (00:56:41):

which is just basically a representation of the regime in Baku.

Fr. Serop (00:56:46):

Baku is what's dictating this, and it's pulling the strings from behind the curtain.

Fr. Serop (00:56:52):

And therefore, they want the Armenian church,

Fr. Serop (00:56:54):

of course, to be belittled,

Fr. Serop (00:56:55):

to,

Fr. Serop (00:56:56):

of course,

Fr. Serop (00:56:57):

shade out and then disappear,

Fr. Serop (00:56:58):

because they would like to turn Armenia eventually,

Fr. Serop (00:57:01):

first of all,

Fr. Serop (00:57:02):

into a more apathetic nation,

Fr. Serop (00:57:05):

and then eventually to induce Islam into us and turn our people more and more into

Fr. Serop (00:57:11):

a religion that pays them,

Fr. Serop (00:57:12):

that pays people.

Fr. Serop (00:57:13):

And of course,

Fr. Serop (00:57:14):

we know the unfortunate event,

Fr. Serop (00:57:16):

and in Armenia, we have a swath of society that will take money and do anything you want.

Fr. Serop (00:57:21):

Unfortunately, this is very unfortunate.

Fr. Serop (00:57:24):

They're basically under the spell or influence under this future beautiful life

Fr. Serop (00:57:30):

that came up from either Europe or from the Turkish nations.

Fr. Serop (00:57:36):

But thank the Lord that we have had the education given enough in the past 30 years

Fr. Serop (00:57:43):

that our people who were part of the Soviet Union for more than 74 years

Fr. Serop (00:57:47):

have come somehow to the light of Christ and rediscovered its values.

Fr. Serop (00:57:52):

As far as the lands that are being confiscated,

Fr. Serop (00:57:55):

taken back,

Fr. Serop (00:57:56):

this current government is basically doing everything to discredit the church and

Fr. Serop (00:58:02):

to destroy the church,

Fr. Serop (00:58:03):

but they won't succeed at the end.

Fr. Serop (00:58:05):

The Armenian people will come to their senses,

Fr. Serop (00:58:07):

I believe,

Fr. Serop (00:58:08):

and they will understand that,

Fr. Serop (00:58:10):

after all, this is a government that has lied in every single aspect that they have promised.

Fr. Serop (00:58:15):

They have lied about every promise they have given,

Fr. Serop (00:58:18):

They have even cut the funds for the people who are sick and old,

Fr. Serop (00:58:25):

and not even raising them with 20,000 dirhams.

Fr. Serop (00:58:27):

I don't know, 50 bucks, is that how much it is?

Fr. Serop (00:58:32):

$50 is not good enough for older people who don't have money to buy their bread.

Fr. Serop (00:58:37):

to purchase their medication, to purchase clothing, proper clothing, or to heat up their house.

Fr. Serop (00:58:43):

And he yet tries to promote his Barkewavajar,

Fr. Serop (00:58:49):

his money,

Fr. Serop (00:58:53):

his giving of funds or money to his government agents in order to prompt them more

Fr. Serop (00:59:01):

to go on TV,

Fr. Serop (00:59:03):

to be on the TV,

Fr. Serop (00:59:06):

television, media,

Fr. Serop (00:59:07):

radio on every single aspect of the government and try to influence the people that

Fr. Serop (00:59:13):

you will be living a better life like this.

Fr. Serop (00:59:17):

So therefore, our people have to, first of all, decide who they are.

Fr. Serop (00:59:22):

Are they, first of all, the loyal people that we were always, or are we going to change?

Fr. Serop (00:59:28):

I mean,

Fr. Serop (00:59:29):

if the government will take the lands from the church,

Fr. Serop (00:59:31):

they have closed down the TV Shoghakat.

Fr. Serop (00:59:34):

They are taking our rules that they will basically take away lands of the church.

Fr. Serop (00:59:39):

Let somebody then answer the question, was this between the Catholicos and Pashinyan?

Fr. Serop (00:59:45):

Or is this Pashinyan versus the Armenian Apostolic Church?

Fr. Serop (00:59:49):

If Pashinyan is doing everything to discredit and destroy the Armenian Apostolic

Fr. Serop (00:59:54):

Church,

Fr. Serop (00:59:55):

how can somebody say anymore with the allegation that this is just to remove the

Fr. Serop (01:00:00):

so-called evil and the so-called immoral Catholicos?

Fr. Serop (01:00:04):

If that's the case, let him look around and see the 10 that are surrounding him.

Fr. Serop (01:00:09):

Some of them have done acts which are more shameful than to be even recorded.

Fr. Serop (01:00:15):

Some of them are mafia bosses.

Fr. Serop (01:00:17):

They have the offshores.

Fr. Serop (01:00:19):

you know, the multi-millionaire dollars and property all over the place.

Fr. Serop (01:00:24):

If Pashinyan wants to take property away,

Fr. Serop (01:00:26):

let him first of all try to take the property of someone who is sitting in Yerevan,

Fr. Serop (01:00:31):

who probably owns the most important assets over there,

Fr. Serop (01:00:35):

and he does diamond business outside as a bishop.

Fr. Serop (01:00:39):

And then he has the guts to turn around and divide the church based on his political needs.

Fr. Serop (01:00:47):

I mean, the person who is an Armenian apostolic,

Fr. Serop (01:00:50):

of course,

Fr. Serop (01:00:51):

I'm talking with the English language podcast that we're doing right now to address

Fr. Serop (01:00:55):

the Armenian people in the diaspora.

Fr. Serop (01:00:57):

Lots of people in the diaspora don't know what's going on.

Fr. Serop (01:01:00):

They just hear things, but they are not familiar with things that are going on.

Fr. Serop (01:01:06):

It's true.

Fr. Serop (01:01:07):

Therefore,

Fr. Serop (01:01:08):

I mean, podcasts like this are supposed to be given more and more,

Fr. Serop (01:01:11):

and people have to be educated more and more,

Fr. Serop (01:01:14):

especially here in the Western Diocese or in California proper or outside of

Fr. Serop (01:01:18):

California,

Fr. Serop (01:01:19):

so that people will understand what's going on.

Fr. Serop (01:01:22):

What's going on?

Fr. Serop (01:01:23):

They don't know anything.

Fr. Serop (01:01:24):

They don't read the Armenian media.

Fr. Serop (01:01:26):

Unfortunately, some of the Armenians who live in the United States, they don't read Armenian.

Fr. Serop (01:01:30):

Therefore, they just follow what's being said from outside.

Fr. Serop (01:01:33):

Well,

Fr. Serop (01:01:34):

fortunately and luckily,

Fr. Serop (01:01:36):

we have you and Aspid and people like you who read English and can convey this to

Fr. Serop (01:01:45):

the people to understand more and more.

Fr. Serop (01:01:48):

Therefore, our people here have to be eliminated.

Fr. Serop (01:01:51):

But why the people are not talking?

Fr. Serop (01:01:53):

Because unfortunately, the leadership that we have are those green leaders who

Fr. Serop (01:01:58):

behooves them to have this situation because they have something to gain out of it.

Asbed (01:02:03):

Father Serop,

Asbed (01:02:04):

we are recording this show on January 9th today,

Asbed (01:02:08):

only three days after Armenian Christmas or Theophany.

Asbed (01:02:12):

The other major holiday that Armenians celebrate is, of course, Easter.

Asbed (01:02:16):

And this year that is on April 5th, I believe, Sunday, April 5th.

Asbed (01:02:20):

And Orthodox Easter is on April 12th.

Asbed (01:02:23):

Tell us just a couple of minutes on what is the significance of these two holidays?

Asbed (01:02:28):

What's Armenian Christmas supposed to mean to Armenians?

Asbed (01:02:31):

And what is Easter for us?

Fr. Serop (01:02:32):

Well,

Fr. Serop (01:02:33):

as probably we've heard before,

Fr. Serop (01:02:34):

Armenians have celebrated Christmas always on the original date,

Fr. Serop (01:02:39):

which was January 6th.

Fr. Serop (01:02:40):

The entire Christian church used to celebrate it on January 6th,

Fr. Serop (01:02:44):

up until the time that in the 16th century,

Fr. Serop (01:02:46):

they found out that the Julian calendar has irregularity.

Fr. Serop (01:02:50):

by which they were adding days to it because they didn't calculate.

Fr. Serop (01:02:54):

The Julian calendar does not calculate the day exactly by calculating it only as 24

Fr. Serop (01:02:59):

hours and a quarter.

Fr. Serop (01:03:03):

So, therefore,

Fr. Serop (01:03:05):

throughout the years, in 1582,

Fr. Serop (01:03:06):

when they found out that they have accumulated more than 13 days,

Fr. Serop (01:03:11):

Pope Gregory have discounted them and have put on the new calendar,

Fr. Serop (01:03:16):

which is called the Gregorian calendar.

Fr. Serop (01:03:18):

Now,

Fr. Serop (01:03:19):

that's why there is a difference in between the Easter of our Easter and the

Fr. Serop (01:03:27):

Orthodox Easter.

Fr. Serop (01:03:28):

Orthodox churches,

Fr. Serop (01:03:29):

which still do the Julian calendar,

Fr. Serop (01:03:31):

and we Armenians have it in Jerusalem as well.

Fr. Serop (01:03:34):

In Jerusalem,

Fr. Serop (01:03:35):

the Armenians celebrate it with the Julian calendar because we are in the realm of

Fr. Serop (01:03:38):

the Jerusalem status quo.

Asbed (01:03:40):

And I think that's January 19, correct?

Fr. Serop (01:03:44):

That January 19 is our Christmas over there, yes.

Asbed (01:03:47):

Yeah.

Fr. Serop (01:03:47):

Because it's 15 days.

Fr. Serop (01:03:49):

By the way, I have to mention that every 200 years, they add a day.

Fr. Serop (01:03:53):

In other words, in 2100, the year 2100,

Fr. Serop (01:03:54):

the Orthodox will not celebrate on January 7,

Fr. Serop (01:03:55):

they will celebrate on January 8.

Fr. Serop (01:04:03):

Just as an information.

Fr. Serop (01:04:04):

But why do we have the Armenian Christmas on the same day?

Fr. Serop (01:04:07):

Because, of course,

Fr. Serop (01:04:09):

during the time of Pope Gregory VII,

Fr. Serop (01:04:12):

I think it was,

Fr. Serop (01:04:13):

that they realized it's better to have Saturnalia followers to basically come to

Fr. Serop (01:04:21):

the faith of Christ.

Fr. Serop (01:04:22):

And starting from Jerusalem,

Fr. Serop (01:04:24):

because people had to transport between River Jordan to Jerusalem,

Fr. Serop (01:04:30):

which took days for them.

Fr. Serop (01:04:32):

Therefore, they had to switch days a little bit and make it December 25.

Fr. Serop (01:04:38):

Well, of course, December 25 in the Julian calendar is still January 7th.

Fr. Serop (01:04:44):

So therefore, December 25, their Christmas, is celebrated on January 7th.

Fr. Serop (01:04:50):

But it depends on which calendar you follow, Julian or Gregorian.

Fr. Serop (01:04:54):

Now, as far as our Easter,

Fr. Serop (01:04:57):

Catholicos Gevork V in 1923 switched the Armenian Church from the Julian calendar

Fr. Serop (01:05:04):

to the Gregorian calendar.

Fr. Serop (01:05:06):

because we were, of course, at that point, part of the Soviet Union.

Fr. Serop (01:05:09):

And the whole world,

Fr. Serop (01:05:10):

by the way, had a trend of following the new calendar,

Fr. Serop (01:05:12):

the Gregorian calendar.

Fr. Serop (01:05:14):

All the nations,

Fr. Serop (01:05:15):

I mean, even Turkey,

Fr. Serop (01:05:18):

after the Ottoman Empire,

Fr. Serop (01:05:19):

which was following Julian calendar,

Fr. Serop (01:05:22):

in 1920,

Fr. Serop (01:05:23):

Turkey itself followed the Gregorian calendar.

Fr. Serop (01:05:26):

Greece also,

Fr. Serop (01:05:27):

and all the nations,

Fr. Serop (01:05:28):

eventually, all the nations have entered the Gregorian calendar,

Fr. Serop (01:05:31):

which became the modern calendar followed by the United Nations.

Fr. Serop (01:05:35):

But as far as our Christmas, it never changed.

Fr. Serop (01:05:40):

It will always remain January 6th.

Fr. Serop (01:05:42):

Of course, we celebrate the birth of Christ.

Fr. Serop (01:05:45):

Unfortunately,

Fr. Serop (01:05:46):

one more thing as a note nowadays that Christmas has become too commercialized in

Fr. Serop (01:05:51):

the West here in the United States.

Fr. Serop (01:05:53):

It is a holiday of basically the chocolate and the tree and commercialization of

Fr. Serop (01:06:00):

all Christmas holiday.

Fr. Serop (01:06:01):

And of course,

Fr. Serop (01:06:02):

if you follow all the Christian holidays on a calendar,

Fr. Serop (01:06:07):

they have all been commercialized,

Fr. Serop (01:06:09):

unfortunately.

Asbed (01:06:10):

I'd like to hear specifically about theophany.

Asbed (01:06:12):

Theophany.

Asbed (01:06:13):

What is the significance of January 6th theophany?

Fr. Serop (01:06:17):

The appearance of the Lord.

Fr. Serop (01:06:23):

Theophany is the word made of two words, theos and epiphany, which means God's appearance.

Fr. Serop (01:06:33):

God, our Lord, appeared among us in the person of Jesus Christ.

Fr. Serop (01:06:38):

who is the eternal Son of God,

Fr. Serop (01:06:42):

one of the persons of the Holy Trinity,

Fr. Serop (01:06:44):

who begat and got body,

Fr. Serop (01:06:48):

who became human,

Fr. Serop (01:06:50):

and lived among us in the person of Jesus Christ,

Fr. Serop (01:06:53):

and brought us to,

Fr. Serop (01:06:55):

again, to be reconciled with the Father by shedding His blood on the cross.

Fr. Serop (01:07:00):

So His birth is not the birth of a regular human,

Fr. Serop (01:07:04):

He is the birth of God incarnate among us.

Fr. Serop (01:07:10):

And therefore, he is also called Emmanuel, which means God with us.

Fr. Serop (01:07:17):

Therefore, theophany,

Fr. Serop (01:07:19):

or epiphany,

Fr. Serop (01:07:20):

as they say in the West,

Fr. Serop (01:07:21):

is the same,

Fr. Serop (01:07:22):

which means that we have seen,

Fr. Serop (01:07:25):

we have touched,

Fr. Serop (01:07:27):

and we have known the Lord in his body.

Fr. Serop (01:07:29):

Because this has also some significance to it even in the early Christian history,

Fr. Serop (01:07:35):

in the first century,

Fr. Serop (01:07:37):

when there were movements that they didn't believe that Christ was appearing among

Fr. Serop (01:07:40):

us in reality.

Fr. Serop (01:07:44):

There were people who called themselves the people who just believed in Christ as

Fr. Serop (01:07:49):

being a phenomenon,

Fr. Serop (01:07:50):

not a real person.

Fr. Serop (01:07:51):

And that's why the Gospel of John,

Fr. Serop (01:07:53):

and especially the first letter of John,

Fr. Serop (01:07:55):

which is in the New Testament,

Fr. Serop (01:07:57):

testified to that.

Fr. Serop (01:07:58):

Especially this was the early movement of the Gnostic movement against the church.

Fr. Serop (01:08:03):

And of course, there's so much history, there's so much history that our people should learn.

Fr. Serop (01:08:08):

And my only pain is that

Fr. Serop (01:08:11):

Our bishops sometimes do not allow known knowledgeable people,

Fr. Serop (01:08:18):

knowledgeable priests to teach the people.

Fr. Serop (01:08:21):

Our tragedy right now is the people don't know much,

Fr. Serop (01:08:25):

haven't followed much,

Fr. Serop (01:08:26):

because they haven't been taught.

Fr. Serop (01:08:27):

They haven't been given all these important details as to,

Fr. Serop (01:08:30):

first of all,

Fr. Serop (01:08:31):

understand what a Christian is.

Asbed (01:08:33):

So on theophany,

Asbed (01:08:36):

are we celebrating the baptism or the appearance or the birth of the divine side of

Asbed (01:08:42):

Christ rather than the birth of a baby?

Fr. Serop (01:08:45):

We celebrate the birth and baptism of our Lord Jesus Christ on the same day.

Fr. Serop (01:08:51):

Because,

Fr. Serop (01:08:52):

as I said,

Fr. Serop (01:08:54):

the church from early on,

Fr. Serop (01:08:57):

in other words,

Fr. Serop (01:08:59):

from the time of the apostles,

Fr. Serop (01:09:00):

celebrated on January 6th.

Fr. Serop (01:09:02):

And they used to do the birth and baptism of the Lord at the same day.

Fr. Serop (01:09:07):

Epiphany was, of course, on January 6th and birth.

Fr. Serop (01:09:12):

But because the church had switched the date and brought it a little bit early in

Fr. Serop (01:09:16):

order to obtain those who were worshiping Saturn,

Fr. Serop (01:09:21):

the god Saturn of the Roman Empire,

Fr. Serop (01:09:24):

and this is before the fall of Rome,

Fr. Serop (01:09:26):

In 476, they wanted to bring those people to the light of Christ.

Fr. Serop (01:09:31):

So they put the birth of the Lord in the same day in order to bring people to the Lord.

Fr. Serop (01:09:36):

And it was behooving the people in Jerusalem because from the birth of Christ,

Fr. Serop (01:09:41):

which in Bethlehem,

Fr. Serop (01:09:42):

commemorated in Bethlehem,

Fr. Serop (01:09:44):

going to the river Jordan to commemorate where he was baptized was going to take

Fr. Serop (01:09:49):

days for them walking.

Fr. Serop (01:09:51):

Therefore,

Fr. Serop (01:09:52):

they had to switch that,

Fr. Serop (01:09:53):

practically speaking,

Fr. Serop (01:09:54):

while the Armenians kept the same day where we celebrate the birth and the baptism

Fr. Serop (01:09:59):

of the Lord when we do blessing of water in our churches,

Fr. Serop (01:10:03):

commemorating that beautiful and blessed event.

Asbed (01:10:05):

Thank you for that.

Asbed (01:10:06):

I think that's very interesting.

Asbed (01:10:07):

One final question before we close.

Asbed (01:10:09):

Sure. When we started this Zoom call, I called you "Hayr Serop" and you said you are "Der Serop."

Fr. Serop (01:10:14):

Yes.

Asbed (01:10:15):

Tell our audience what is the difference between the clergy and how we address them.

Asbed (01:10:20):

For example, is it Hayr Serop or is it Der Serop or what is it?

Fr. Serop (01:10:24):

Thank you.

Fr. Serop (01:10:25):

Thank you.

Fr. Serop (01:10:26):

Thank you. In fact, every clergyman has its rank and his stance in the church.

Fr. Serop (01:10:32):

We have to understand there are two types of clergy in the Armenian church,

Fr. Serop (01:10:35):

married and celibate.

Fr. Serop (01:10:37):

Married clergy,

Fr. Serop (01:10:38):

which are usually,

Fr. Serop (01:10:40):

or deacons, or let's say either deacons or priests,

Fr. Serop (01:10:43):

a priest is called Der hayr,

Fr. Serop (01:10:45):

father,

Fr. Serop (01:10:46):

and he is called Der Serop.

Fr. Serop (01:10:49):

Of course, it's not appropriate to give his name all the time, say Der Serop, Der Serop.

Fr. Serop (01:10:53):

It's appropriate to address him as Der hayr, father.

Fr. Serop (01:10:57):

Whereas the other side,

Fr. Serop (01:10:58):

where we have celibate priesthood,

Fr. Serop (01:10:59):

those who put the veil on,

Fr. Serop (01:11:02):

they are called Hayr.

Fr. Serop (01:11:04):

And Apegha, a Vartabed, and Dzayrakuyn Vartabed are called Hayr, a father.

Fr. Serop (01:11:10):

Let's say his name is Fr. Margos,

Fr. Serop (01:11:12):

then we call him as Hayr Margos,

Fr. Serop (01:11:14):

not Der Margos,

Fr. Serop (01:11:15):

because he's not married.

Fr. Serop (01:11:17):

If a bishop is there, then we call him Srpazan.

Fr. Serop (01:11:21):

And we don't give his name.

Fr. Serop (01:11:22):

For example, we don't call Mikhail Srpazan all the time.

Fr. Serop (01:11:25):

But unless we are going to distinguish which Srpazan we're talking about,

Fr. Serop (01:11:29):

we call him Srpazan Hayr.

Fr. Serop (01:11:31):

And a Vartabed we call Hayr Surp, Holy Father.

Fr. Serop (01:11:35):

Because their life is supposed to be life of holiness, of course.

Fr. Serop (01:11:38):

And that's a prompt that they have to remember, obviously, all the time.

Fr. Serop (01:11:42):

And we are called Der Hayr in order to remind us that we are a father and a

Fr. Serop (01:11:47):

protector of our flock.

Fr. Serop (01:11:49):

Der Hayr.

Fr. Serop (01:11:51):

And the Catholicos is called Vehapar, because this is the name that was given to the kings.

Fr. Serop (01:12:00):

Vehapar is a name, a title was given to the kings.

Fr. Serop (01:12:03):

And the reason that a Vehapar is given consecration,

Fr. Serop (01:12:08):

and I know that no priest probably spoke about this before,

Fr. Serop (01:12:12):

A consecration is given to the Vehapar, whereas in the other churches it doesn't exist.

Fr. Serop (01:12:16):

In the Greek, in the Catholic, in the Orthodox churches, it doesn't exist.

Fr. Serop (01:12:19):

We are the only church,

Fr. Serop (01:12:20):

perhaps, that have a consecration of a Catholicos,

Fr. Serop (01:12:23):

because it is an event that remains since the Cilician Kingdom,

Fr. Serop (01:12:28):

whereas our last kings have basically extinguished the Kingdom of Cilicia,

Fr. Serop (01:12:33):

and Vehapar was consecrated,

Fr. Serop (01:12:36):

and he is the one who has the right to sign in red ink.

Fr. Serop (01:12:40):

and to give his seal and he is called Vehapar which is a title given to a king and

Fr. Serop (01:12:46):

therefore Vehapar is a king in a church and not an earthly king but his kingdom is

Fr. Serop (01:12:51):

the church whereas his crown is the crown of thorns and his staff is the cross and

Fr. Serop (01:12:59):

his life is the life of following Christ

Fr. Serop (01:13:02):

Therefore, it's important for us to remember that our king of kings is in heaven and our

Fr. Serop (01:13:07):

earthly is our father who sustains us and gives us the unity of our people with

Fr. Serop (01:13:14):

which we will defend against every enemy foreign or domestic.

Asbed (01:13:18):

In Armenian, we have Srpazan, which we address bishops and archbishops.

Asbed (01:13:24):

Of course, we also have yebiskobos and Arkebiskobos.

Asbed (01:13:28):

Is it more proper to just say Srpazan to bishops and archbishops?

Fr. Serop (01:13:32):

That's correct.

Fr. Serop (01:13:33):

In fact,

Fr. Serop (01:13:34):

we say Srpazan to both bishops and archbishops because in their church,

Fr. Serop (01:13:38):

there are three ranks,

Fr. Serop (01:13:39):

three primary ranks only,

Fr. Serop (01:13:41):

a deacon,

Fr. Serop (01:13:42):

an elder, which is a priest, and a bishop.

Fr. Serop (01:13:44):

That's it.

Fr. Serop (01:13:45):

These are the total ranks.

Fr. Serop (01:13:46):

But the others are basically technicalities or added on throughout the centuries.

Fr. Serop (01:13:51):

The biblical or the scriptural event by which we know the ranks of the church,

Fr. Serop (01:13:56):

which are set by the apostles themselves,

Fr. Serop (01:13:59):

are three.

Fr. Serop (01:14:00):

Deacon, priest, bishop.

Fr. Serop (01:14:02):

And a bishop from an archbishop has no difference because it's only a title.

Fr. Serop (01:14:07):

An archbishop is a title.

Fr. Serop (01:14:09):

not a, let's say, supremacy in any sort or any way.

Fr. Serop (01:14:14):

You can even have a bishop who might be more senior than an archbishop,

Fr. Serop (01:14:17):

when he was ordained before him,

Fr. Serop (01:14:19):

let's say.

Fr. Serop (01:14:20):

So, of course, archbishopry, of course, gives him a more seniority based on the title.

Fr. Serop (01:14:26):

However, even patriarchs, we have two patriarchs, by which we call them Serpazan Baderyak.

Fr. Serop (01:14:31):

Srpazan, not Vehapar.

Fr. Serop (01:14:33):

Vihapar is only given title to the Catholic.

Fr. Serop (01:14:36):

One in Etchmiadzin, one in Antalya's.

Asbed (01:14:39):

So if we were actually to meet the patriarch of Constantinople or Jerusalem,

Asbed (01:14:43):

we would call them Srpazan Hayr?

Fr. Serop (01:14:46):

Srpazan Badarak or Srpazan Hayr, that will be appropriate.

Fr. Serop (01:14:49):

It will be appropriate because,

Fr. Serop (01:14:51):

of course,

Fr. Serop (01:14:53):

most important is to call them by the appropriate titles all the time.

Fr. Serop (01:14:57):

And, of course, we know that they are leaders of their, you know,

Fr. Serop (01:15:01):

area or them and they come from very very early times i mean the uh patriarchy of

Fr. Serop (01:15:08):

Jerusalem from 639 and the patriarchy of Constantinople from 1461.

Hovik (01:15:13):

very interesting discussion we would be honored to have you back sometime in the

Hovik (01:15:18):

future but let's let's leave it here for today and uh i appreciate uh your time

Hovik (01:15:24):

with us today

Fr. Serop (01:15:25):

My pleasure.

Fr. Serop (01:15:26):

May the Lord bless you on this holy week that we are living post-Christmas because

Fr. Serop (01:15:31):

we live 80 days after Christmas.

Fr. Serop (01:15:33):

And I wish to thank you, Asbed and Hovik.

Fr. Serop (01:15:36):

And may the Lord's blessing be with you, your families.

Fr. Serop (01:15:40):

And hopefully we will meet again in podcasts like this down the road.

Asbed (01:15:43):

Thank you, Deir Hay.

Asbed (01:15:44):

Thank you.

Asbed (01:15:45):

Thank you. Hovig, that was kind of an interesting show today.

Asbed (01:15:48):

Very different from a lot of our other shows.

Asbed (01:15:51):

Yeah.

Asbed (01:15:52):

Okay, well, this episode was recorded on January 9, 2026.

Asbed (01:15:56):

We've been talking with Father Serop Azarian, who is a priest in the Armenian Apostolic Church.

Asbed (01:16:02):

He has served in the US Army National Guard and earned degrees in divinity and biblical studies.

Asbed (01:16:08):

In the past,

Asbed (01:16:09):

he has served in the Eastern Prelacy of the Armenian Church between 1999 and 2007,

Asbed (01:16:15):

the Western Diocese of the United States between 2007 and 2010,

Asbed (01:16:19):

and the Canadian Diocese from 2011 to 2014.

Asbed (01:16:23):

He now works as a court interpreter in Clark County,

Asbed (01:16:26):

Nevada,

Asbed (01:16:27):

while remaining active as a priest educator.

Hovik (01:16:30):

And we hope you like the show.

Hovik (01:16:31):

In any case, let us know in the comments.

Hovik (01:16:34):

And if you prefer more shows like this,

Hovik (01:16:37):

definitely mention that so that we know and we can try to plan our podcasts

Hovik (01:16:43):

accordingly.

Hovik (01:16:45):

So if you feel like we should have more shows covering topics of the Armenian Apostolic Church,

Hovik (01:16:50):

including we can even go we were talking with father set up before the show about

Hovik (01:16:53):

doing a series of podcasts going into various episodes of the Armenian church

Hovik (01:17:00):

covering history covering different uh important events of the church if you

Hovik (01:17:05):

think that's uh useful to you let us know in the comments and make sure that you

Hovik (01:17:10):

like comment and share this episode to help us uh reach more people.

Asbed (01:17:16):

All right, I'm Asbed Bedrossian in Los Angeles

Hovik (01:17:19):

And I'm Hovik Manucharyan in Occupied Yerevan.

Hovik (01:17:23):

I think I should change my sign-off statement to be Occupied Yerevan from now on.

Asbed (01:17:28):

We'll talk to you soon, folks.

Hovik (01:17:30):

Have a great day.

Head Shot

Asbed Bedrossian

Co-host
Head Shot

Hovik Manucharyan

Co-host
Head Shot

Fr. Serop Azarian (Տ. Սերոբ Քահանայ)

Guest

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