Talking Rotary Zones 28 & 32
Talking Rotary Zones 28 & 32 is a podcast that features the work of Rotary International, the service organization. The podcast features the good works of Rotary clubs in the district, the zone, and the world.
Talking Rotary Zones 28 & 32
Sonam Choeden - Expelled From The Top
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Sonam Choeden, a refugee from Tibet, shared her journey from India to Canada, highlighting her parents' escape from Tibet and her upbringing in India. She discussed her transition to New York, the challenges of selling Tibetan carpets, and the loss of her husband and father. Sonam's involvement with Rotary began in Toronto, where she joined the Rotary Club of Toronto Forest Hill and later founded the Toronto Tibetan Rotary Club in 2023.
Music. Welcome to this episode of talking Rotary. I'm Peter Tonge, and I'm a member of the Rotary Club of Winnipeg. Charleswood,
Mandy Kwasnica:and I am Mandy Kwasnica, past president and also a member of the Rotary Club of Winnipeg. Charles Wood, we are so happy you have joined us. Peter and I are so excited for this new podcast and thankful to our many listeners. Let's start talking rotary you
joe solway:Hey, again, it's Joe Solway filling in as your host on talking rotary for Peter Tonge. Well, he serves as the governor for district 5550, and my guest today is the extraordinary, and I mean that in the sincere sense of the word son and children of my own district, 7070. Her story begins in moon god India, born in 1969 youngest of four sisters after her parents had fled her native Tibet, during the uprising against Chinese rule. 10 years earlier, an uprising in which 1000s of Tibetans were executed, 1000s more fled, including His Holiness the Dalai Lama. Her journey goes through New York City and now continues here in Canada, where she joined rotary and eventually founded the Toronto Tibetan Rotary Club, which was chartered in March 2023 Sonam, welcome to Talking Rotary.
Sonam Choeden:Oh, thank you. Thank you. Joe. Hi, Joe, thank you for that wonderful introduction. Appreciate that. How are you, Joe? I'm
joe solway:fine, and thank you for being here. I want to start your story at the beginning. Tell me about your parents journey from Tibet to India. This was not easy. What did they tell you about it?
Sonam Choeden:Oh, well, you know, I have been hearing all my life, many, many repeated times, how they have crossed the mountains for many months. You know, you know, my dad, Father was making two trip, because have to carry my grandmother on his back, and my oldest sister were very young at that time. So he would carry my grandmother, and, you know, have one daughter on the other side, drop them few miles away, and then went back and then fetch the rest of the members and come back for him. It's like a double trip somewhere, sometime when they run out of food, you know. And my father, being farmer, he is resourceful. He digging all kinds of roots and, you know, and for meals. That's how they survive. Made it to northern India, which is, you know, not so bad as you know, Southern India
joe solway:and not not everyone survived. Your grandmother didn't make it, did she? I
Sonam Choeden:know, so my mother, my grandmother, didn't make it on the halfway she passed away.
joe solway:Yeah, so you never knew her. I
Sonam Choeden:have never known her, you know, but I've always she was always in the story all my life when, you know, growing up, we have dinner together, no matter what happens at lunchtime or the breakfast time, but the dinner is always together, so there's so many stories every night. Yeah, and
joe solway:your your parents were farmers. Yes, you're the youngest of four children. Yes, tell me about growing up there in that environment. Describe that and what your parents were able to give you.
Sonam Choeden:So honestly speaking, right now, the way we were raised, we didn't know what we were missing, you know? I mean, we are just so happy because we have two parents, and we have cows, you know, we have hands, who lays eggs and, you know, milk and vegetables. And you know, because of farmer, we don't have money, but we have, you know, good resource of, you know, organic food, right? And thank thank God to His Holiness, the Dalai Lama, because India government has been so kind to us. Because, you know, we have shelter to live and land to farm to survive, you know,
joe solway:and your parents, while they were farmers, they also knew the value of education. Tell me about 100% they gave you for that. Yeah,
Sonam Choeden:so 100% they have, even though, you know, they don't let me do little chores at home, because they want me to study. Right? They have always taught me that they have nothing, you know, no inherent to live it to us. But you know, if you study now, when we are alive, the education will be your weapon to the success of in your life. So they have always, that's the mantra study, well, be honest. You know what I mean? Then you will have no problem. You know, you will survive, yeah, you'll make it. Yeah,
joe solway:yeah. I want to jump ahead. We have a lot to talk about to your adult years. You got married, had three children, and Tibetan carpets are well thought of and revered around the world for their quality. And you and your husband went into the carpet business, and you had two factories in Nepal, yes, and at some point in 1997 you decided that one of you, or both of you, maybe, had to come to America for your business and for your children. Can Can you talk about what happened and why that decision was made? Yes.
Sonam Choeden:So you know, as you know, Tibetan refugee, born in to our poor, you know, former parents, we don't have money. So between the my husband and I, we worked hard, and, you know, we have saved up some and, you know, build those two factories. And when the market was good, we were able to rotate it the cash flow with no, no problem. But after 1996 market went down south, and everything you know, the production was sitting in a good down and we have a shortage of cash flow, which made us force us to decide, Okay, what else? What can we what? What else can we do to survive and to, you know, now we have three kids, not just you and me. You know what I mean. That's when my husband, you know, apply for a business visa to look for a market in North America, specifically to in New York, and his visa was denied. Then we need to think, Okay, what's next, you know? So that's when I applied for a visa to go to, you know, it was a business visa to go to New York. And that's when I have a month, one month old daughter, my third one, and we I have no choice but to make these decisions. You know what I mean? As a refugee, I have always thought, okay, you know, we have to take those challenges, do whatever we need to do. Because I always felt like, okay, there's nothing more to lose. You know what I mean, in a sense that we don't have our country. What else could go wrong? You know what I mean? I felt like I have always been on the rock bottom because of being refugee, right? So I don't have a you know? You know, you know, any doubt that anything we will do next will be something better than what we are in right now? That's what my thinking always
joe solway:so you, you go to New York, yes, and you, you speak almost no English. I
Sonam Choeden:know we went to English medium school, but speaking was in not practice. Yes, and we don't know, and you didn't
joe solway:have much money in your pocket. What happened after that? You walk the streets of New York trying to start. Trying to sell your carpets. Can you describe what happened?
Sonam Choeden:I know to this day, I still remember. I have 107 US dollar, and you know so with me, I know I have brought in some sample carpet, so carrying that, and I walked around, and I think it's 34th Street in New York, there are, I think, tippet Richardson, or there are carpet, few carpet stores, right? And when I went in there, I was kind of shocked and surprised at the same time, you know? And also I was like, Okay, this is bad news that I'm not going to make it because the carpet they're selling is cheaper than the wages that we were paying to the weavers. You know what I mean, the quality that we have. You know, my carpet was pure Tibetan wool in a hand wash, hand clean. Hand, dyed hand, you know, rolled it up to thread to hand, hand weaved, right? And, and it's, you know, I couldn't do it because there's no comparable to the price that they have, you know. I mean, what they're selling is, you know, not the one that I'm selling. You know what I mean, and, and it's, and at the same time I could, if I have the money and knowledge, and, you know, market to do that, ability to do that, right, I could have a niche market of upscale carpets, right? But at that time I have, I'm lacking all that, no fund, no education, no knowledge of any marketing to look for that market. So what I did is I put those carpets with me to a consignment sale, to those carpet shop, and I went to do look for working. Yeah, I went to work.
joe solway:In the meantime, your children, it must have been heartbreaking for you to leave your children. They're back home, I know in India, yeah. Can you talk about their situation and how that how that played out? Yeah,
Sonam Choeden:I left them with a heavy heart, but I have to sacrifice if you want a better life for your children. You know what I mean, which is, you know, a life of refugee, you gotta do something and to get to the better place, right for your children. And it was fine until my husband was there, because he was running the carpet, as well as looking after the three kids. But he passed away within a two years, and and that was the difficult time, yeah, so that's when my oldest sister come in, you know, took care of my three children and put them in a boarding school, yeah,
joe solway:and you ended up in upstate New York,
Sonam Choeden:yes? So, no, I lived in Brooklyn for, okay, close to five years. Worked near Franklin and Broadview. And you know, when my husband passed away, and a month later, my my father passed away, and that's when I found a nice temple in upstate New York through one of our client and that was very, very, you know, what do you call it? You know, relief and refuge for me, to, you know, to pray, to please, to cry. And I could do 108 butter lamb. And you know, that saved me from going to depression, I guess.
joe solway:Yeah, yeah, that's a lot for a young woman to have to handle. 2002 you end up coming to Canada, and that that too, didn't was not a straight line. I mean that, you know, many things happened. You know, to to bring it here. Can you talk about what happened and how you eventually ended up crossing the border?
Sonam Choeden:You know, everything happens for a reason. I believe in that, right? You know, our books has been written. We're just flipping the page. So what happened was, you know, because my immigration paper didn't go through, because you know us, immigration said, Okay, lady, you're you are not tortured, you have not been raped. Your life is not in danger. So we don't know where to put you you know, I mean, I, you know, I will not get a status there, because I have not been tortured physically, right? So, because of that, my paper didn't get processed. And after 911 and the US government is cleaning up all the undocumented, you know, personnel, so I have received the deportation letter from you know, the immigration US immigration, right? And that's when I went to seek some support and help and guidance from the Office of His Holiness, the Dalai Lama in New York. And that's where I met one of the lawyer from Toronto in that office. And she have suggested that I should leave it as soon as possible, before the border get closed, you know? And that's when I do crossing the border, and I'm at the Peace Bridge when I found out that, you know, I haven't, I have missed the welcoming center where I'm supposed to go and end up at the Peace Bridge in mid, almost close to midnight,
joe solway:and the weather wasn't perfect either. Oh my, the
Sonam Choeden:weather was knee high snow. You know, I didn't feel much cold, but I knew it was hard to walk around, right? But thank goodness the you know, Peace Bridge. Border security officers were so kind. They asked me to come inside, do all the due, diligent questionnaires and paperwork and everything and that let me place to stay a piece of sandwich and some drinks, and they asked me to come tomorrow morning at 7am Yep, and you
joe solway:came and yeah, ended up in Toronto A few hours later. Yep,
Sonam Choeden:at 7am I was interviewed, and 10am I met King and Jameson area where most Tibetan lands, you know, landed. I am one of the lucky ones here.
joe solway:Yeah, that's, that's quite a story. What
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joe solway:well, you have luck and you also, you know you bring kindness and and people are kind to you as well. I think that's kind of what happens when you spread kindness? So I want to jump ahead you you to let's talk about rotary you make yourself a life in Canada, your kids end up coming here. You get a degree, and you find yourself being asked to join a rotary club, or you were asking to join a rotary club because you were working where they were holding their meetings. Can you talk about that? It was Toronto Forest Hill rotary
Sonam Choeden:Yes. Sure. Sure. So, you know, I was working at a place where a Rotary Club of Toronto Forest Hill meets every week, and I have the, you know, privilege to serve them and prepare for their meetings every time they meet. And that's how I knew them, three years prior to joining rotary in 2010 and, you know, they and after that, they found out that, you know, once I finished my you know, university from Ryerson. And now that metropolitan Milo, the president at that time was Milo vasallo, you know, and he found out that he, I have left the work and started my own business. That's when he have invited me to join the Rotary Club of Toronto for a sale. So I have no hesitation, and I was I said yes, you know, thank you, yeah.
joe solway:Why? Why did you want to Why did you say yes with no hesitation? What was it about rotary that made you want to join? You
Sonam Choeden:know, I, you know, being a refugee all my life, you know, I have always carried a deep curiosity and sometimes painful about the power dynamic and dominating nature of humanity, right? Growing up those questions often left me wondering why inequality and suffering exist. You know what I mean. But through those challenges, I have always anchored myself in the teaching of His Holiness, the Dalai Lama, and particularly his profound guidance of living a meaningful life, right for me, meaning a living full life, means contributing to something, something that is greater than myself, that when the opportunity comes when past president milovi invited me to join the Rotary Club of Toronto Forest Hill. You know, I quite didn't know at that time how transformative that initiative would be, but at that time, I knew this is where I belong, and I knew that I'm in the right place with the right you know, you know a group, yeah. What does that
joe solway:mean? A place where you belong, you
Sonam Choeden:know, being, you know. So as a Tibetan, you know, we have been, you know, receiver of the kindness, you know, all our life, right? Everyone has looked at refugee as a needing some sort of help. And I thought, okay, joining our, you know, the, you know, joining rotary means, you know, I have given the opportunity to give back to the society, you know. I mean the rotary principles deeply resonates with me. Uh, you know what I mean. In fact, you know, I always thought the rotary four way test. You know what I mean, truth, fear. You know fairness. All you know, everything you know the rotary four way test, right? Feels like you know Mister Paul Harris had consulted with His Holiness, the Dalai Lama, when he was writing it. You know what? I mean, even one of our member mentioned that too, yeah. So you know it. So you know universal value that are so close to me, you know, the rotary four way test, right? And Rotary has given me the platform to channel my compassion into action and bringing kindness, compassion, service and connection to the people who need the most, right? So Tibetan people are, you know, in some way, there is always wanting to give back, you know what I mean, and that way, that's why I think it was very meaningful to me when Milo have invited me here.
joe solway:So you became the president of that club in 2015 that was five years later. You went on to be, AG, Assistant governor, yes. And then in 2023 or I guess you'd started it earlier than that, but it was chartered March of 2023 you started help to start the Toronto Tibetan Rotary Club. Why did you want to start a rotary club for Toronto Tibetans,
Sonam Choeden:so see being in a rotary I have learned so much, right for me, Rotary, what do you call it? I am, you know what? I'm being a little bit emotional. Sorry, it's okay. Yeah, you know,
joe solway:perhaps I can read something that you put you posted this on Facebook, actually just yesterday, and I just want to read it. Maybe this will help you put it into words. Through the wisdom of His Holiness and the support of countries like Canada, I have been able to turn my strength and my resistance into action. I carry my Tibetan identity with pride, and I strive to ensure that my children and all Tibetans never forget where we came from, even as we build new lives in this beautiful, welcoming country. And when I read that, I thought, wow, this is this kind of encapsulates her. You know what you feel about, about making Canada your home, and why and and why, what that has to do with starting the Tibetan Rotary Club?
Sonam Choeden:Yes, thank you. Thank you for reading that, because it gives me a chance to breathe. You know who you know who I am today has so much to do with how Rotary has shaped my life. You know what I mean, the value I gain, the connection I have made, the opportunities to serve, to serve, have all been so transformative to me. You know what I mean. So the main reason behind you know, working on to chartering the Rotary Club of Toronto Forest Hill, I mean, Rotary Club of Tibetan. You know, it's as simple as I wanted my fellow Tibetan Canadians to have the same opportunity that I have received. You know what I mean? I wanted to create a space where we could come together, you know, guided by the rotary principle, to contribute to the world in a meaningful way.
joe solway:That's wonderful. And you know, I sense that when I see you and your fellow and club members at events. It's always wonderful to see you all. I just want to go back to his holiness. You've mentioned that a few times, and you were the subject of a film a few years ago in which you went back to India. And as part of that film, you had an audience with His Holiness, the Dalai Lama, can you talk about what it meant to you to have that happen?
Sonam Choeden:It means a once in a lifetime opportunity for me, you know, I agree to do that in documentary movie, because. And you know, as a refugee in Canada, you know who I am today, wasn't possible if Canada, government and people hasn't been open arm in supporting me and having the identity, and in ormin given to me, right? So, you know, I am grateful for Canadian government and its people, because that movie was funded by Immigration Canada,
joe solway:and the film was about Tibetan exiles, about, about, yes, yeah,
Sonam Choeden:yes. And I wanted to, you know that movie documentary was even it's a vulnerable because, you know, I'm not much so you know out, you know it's, it's, you're in a vulnerable situation when your story is being told, right? But at the same time, it's empowering for me to express to have a larger platform to be grateful for, you know, being a, you know, call myself a Canadian citizen, right? What
joe solway:did it mean for you to have that personal audience with His Holiness?
Sonam Choeden:That means, you know, that means everything that means, once in a lifetime, right opportunity, and also His Holiness, the Dalai Lama, has done so much to the people of Tibet you know, joining his two hands to the world to Get support, and being a Tibetan refugee, you know, we want to, we also want to make sure that as a refugee, you know, Tibetan people always carry a deep sense of gratitude. You know, we know what it means to face challenges, to endure loss and to build with resilience, and at the same time, we carry innate urge to give back to the society. And that's when that has been so generous to us, right? The society has been so generous to us. And Canadian, you know, Canada has opened its arm to us, providing a place to call home and for that, and being a Tibetan, being a refugee, and me and my fellow people will be always thankful for and one of that you know, having audience In front of His Holiness, the Dalai Lama, to it, you know, show his show gratitude to him, you know. And it's, it's once in a lifetime opportunity
joe solway:you were, you went back to Dharamshala again, which is where His Holiness lives, and where a lot of Tibetans are recently, and there's a picture of you on your Facebook page showing His Holiness a book and some documents about your new project that you're involved in, which is about giving back and About the Tibetan community here in in Toronto, in the Greater Toronto Area, can you talk about that project? What, what were you showing him and what, what was he talking about?
Sonam Choeden:Yes. So, you know, I have been thinking about this for many years, you know, 1015, years. But I'm lacking in experience. And, you know, knowledge and everything. Now, for last two and a half years, I have been working on to working on to build a ethnic, specific long term care facility that will serve Tibetan seniors in Ontario, where they will feel like home and their culture and spiritual and, you know, is respected, and even with the food they are familiar with, you know, I mean, and overall it will be, you know, happier and healthier when you have atmosphere that is feel like a home. So so for that project, and I went to see his holiness, blessing and request for Tibetan name, yeah, and the name is, it's called Champa. Ling. Champa means compassion, love and caring, and Ling means a place so it's a compassionate place or something. Yeah,
joe solway:yeah. Your your parents, you you talk about the fact that your parents, when they were in India, yeah? Yes, had a dream of one day going back to Tibet Do you carry that dream still? And do other Tibetans still have that? Or is there are those days, or is that not a dream that you even have anymore?
Sonam Choeden:100% you know, I think including myself. I think every Tibetan wants to go back. Want to see Tibet somewhat have, you know, human rights, freedom, freedom of freedom to express, you know, and practice their own religion and speak their own language. You know, yes, 100% we want to see Tibet free. We want us to go back. We want His Holiness, the Dalai Lama, to go back. You know, hasn't been there for last 70 years, and this is, I guess, every Tibetan stream, yep.
joe solway:Well, you know, you talk about what Canada has given you, yes, but I just want to let you know that as a Canadian and as a Rotarian, I am so grateful and appreciative of what you have given to Canada and what you give to rotary. You know it's it's immeasurable. So I want to thank you for that. Oh, thank you. Okay. Have a good day, and we will see you soon. Thank you very much for telling your story, and thanks for being a great Rotarian.
Sonam Choeden:Thank you. I want to say one last thing, Sure So Joe, I want to thank you for this opportunity, and I want to say this to anyone listening today who wonders whether they can make a difference? I want them to know that rotary welcomes you. It transforms not only communities, but the individuals who serve them. And for that, I will always be thankful.
joe solway:Thank you. Well. Said, Sonam, okay, my friend, I'll see you soon. Bye, now Thank
Sonam Choeden:you. Take care. Bye,
Peter Tonge:music.
Mandy Kwasnica:Thank you so much for joining us on another great episode of talking Rotary. We would love to hear from you. Please send us your comments and story ideas, and you can share with us easily by sending us an email at feedback, at talking rotary.org. Let's keep talking Rotary. You.