Creating Safe Inclusive Spaces in Rotary with Shirley-Pat Gale

Meet PDG Shirley-Pat Gale, my friend and mentor. In this episode, you will learn about our paths into Rotary.

We talk about leading innovatively to create safe, inclusive spaces for the diverse voices in Rotary.

Content warning: The following episode discusses suicide and may be distressing for some listeners

Transcript

Rotary Ad: 0:00

Hey. Welcome to this episode of Talking Rotary. I'm Peter Tonge, and I'm a member of the Rotary Club of Winnipeg Charleswood, and I am Andy Kwasnica, past president and also a member of the Rotary Club of Winnipeg Charleswood, we are so happy you have joined us. Peter and I are so excited for this new podcast and thankful to our many listeners. Let's start talking rotary!

Peter Tonge: 1:07

Hi everyone. I'm Peter Tonge. Welcome to another edition of Talking Rotary. Now today, I'm lucky enough to be here with my friend and mentor, Shirley-Pat Gale, who's asked to introduce herself. So Shirley-Pat, welcome to the podcast, and I'm gonna let you introduce yourself.

Shirley-Pat Gale: 1:24

Thank you. Peter so Situ Z, Shirley-Pat, my name is Shirley-Pat. I am proud to be adopted not once, not twice, but three times. And I just introduced myself in the language of the beautiful Chico people of the interior British Columbia. And I currently am on the beautiful equipment territory just outside of seminar in British Columbia. Yeah, it's very nice to be with you.

Peter Tonge: 1:55

Peter, very nice to have you here. What's your weather like today?

Shirley-Pat Gale: 2:01

It's a beautiful, gray, foggy fall day, a little bit crisp. You can almost smell the snow. We're up in the mountains. So yeah,

Peter Tonge: 2:11

We're a couple of days ahead of you, because we had, we had a pretty good dump of snow last night. So

Shirley-Pat Gale: 2:21

You are. You are in Winter peg. So, you know, we do affectionately refer to it as such across the country, for sure, yeah,

Peter Tonge: 2:29

and and we are. We're living up to that name today. Now, you and I talked a little bit before we started to record and say, What are we going to talk about today? And I mean, I think we both sort of had diverse paths into Rotary, and maybe we should talk about that a little bit today, about Rotary and the Rotary experience for maybe folks that aren't typical, whatever that is.

Shirley-Pat Gale: 3:03

I love it. Seeing as I, you know, often refer to myself as neuro spicy, I appreciate

Peter Tonge: 3:10

and I do so. I mean, I don't know what typical is, but

Shirley-Pat Gale: 3:13

No, I think normal, isn't it not a setting on the dryer, if I So, understand correctly. Um, for me, I was voluntold by my mom, so my mom, my late mom, Nancy Gail, was was a rotary and so service was always part of our life because of my dad's family's relationship and path through colonialism and being Canadians, and, you know, being forcibly enfranchised under the Indian Act, when an indigenous woman marries outside the community, and then her kids, right and grandkids, and then I'm adopted. So it it, it's all of those kind of lessons around service to your family, right, service to your community, service to your kin, service to the space that you live in, wherever that is. And so that, for me, was my path kind of leading up. And my mom became a rotary and because in small communities, Rotary or service clubs, that's where the leaders are, right? If you want to know what's going on in the community, what's happening, what's shaking, who's getting stuff done. You go to a service club, and you go to a rotary meeting, you go and you find out, and you sit with them, and they're leaders from as you know, you've been in many clubs as a past district governor, as I have, they're diverse, and they they have this beautiful cross section, if done in a good way, of what the community represents. And, you know, I was told when I was in grade Oh, I was eight, eight or nine, that I was stupid and I'd never amount to anything. I was in grade three, yeah, and I would, quote, unquote, this is a quote. I'd be lucky to be awake. And he said it in front of my mom and my grandmother. My grandmother ran a roadhouse and was a nurse at night like you don't insult waitresses like you don't he. There wasn't a physical assault, but it was pretty close. And I was taught that I was going to make mistakes, and that was okay, and that making mistakes was a way to also learn. And so my mom, she, she started to include me in in service, even before she was a rotary and but then, when I moved home as an adult in my early 30s, she I got voluntold. I had a badge that said volun, told by Nancy Gale. And then, well, if I'm gonna be voluntold, I might as well join and so I was inducted into the Rotary Club of Williams Lake daybreak. And thankfully, because of who my mom was, she's exec she was executive director of a child development center. They made space for a neuro spicy kid, and I will always be a kid, even though I'm now 50 in rotary because the demographics of the clubs I find myself,

Peter Tonge: 6:12

I think that's something that we share, but not necessarily because of my physical age. But somebody said to me the other day, I can't believe how old you are. You must have a great skincare routine. He says, Not my skincare routine, it's my immaturity.

Shirley-Pat Gale: 6:34

It's the heart, right? I

Peter Tonge: 6:36

So how can you figure out how old I am?

Shirley-Pat Gale: 6:46

But so yeah, how did you come into Rotary? I'm curious.

Peter Tonge: 6:50

Um, it was very interesting. I had, I had, I had just come out of a marriage, and I was really pretty miserable, and I ran into a period a group of friends that said, we've started this new rotary club in in the area of the city, and I think this is something that's going going to provide you with some friends and some support that you need. And that's exactly what it did. That's exactly what it did. They sort of took me into the fold and and got me doing things in the community. And it was fantastic. It was really what I needed. You know? It was interesting, because at the time, this was more than 25 years ago. Now, it really was a club of relatively young people. There were a bunch of people in their 30s and their 40s, and they all became friends and and a lot of them are still very much in robberies to this day, I'm I'm halfway across the country from there now, because that was in Ottawa, but that's where it all started. They just sort of saw something that they needed to take in. They were like, maybe for the first little while I was probably a Rotary project!

Shirley-Pat Gale: 8:09

That's okay, too, right?

Peter Tonge: 8:14

Peter is okay,

Shirley-Pat Gale: 8:16

yes, make sure the kids okay. I got that a lot as well.

Peter Tonge: 8:22

It was good. They did a lot of things in the community, both, you know, as a group, to bond together and whatever, and we even got them doing a lot of international projects. So they grew really quickly out of a brand new club still around today, it's morphed into all kinds of different versions or whatever, but they're still around today. And you were mentioning earlier, one of the things that I think is really neat, as you say, as pastor, Governor, you visit so many clubs in Oh my I'm always amazed on how unique every Rotary Club is. I have Rotary Clubs in my city that meet on the same day in the same location at different times, and the two clubs are completely, totally different, have completely different personalities,

Shirley-Pat Gale: 9:07

oh, yeah, yeah. And feel a different need, right? And probably attract different kinds of members in the community their own kind of service, right? Yeah. And I love when your story is that it's also about the opportunity in Rotary, even to this day, that if a space, if the space you find yourself in in Rotary, oh, you just giving me people bumps because you're reminding me something it doesn't fit or isn't the best fit anymore, you can create a space that could be not just a fit for you, but for other people that might be looking for what you're talking about right to be able to do, to do those opportunities. And that was, that was some of the like, the innovation for me, in the way committed human beings find to serve in their community is also just. So that that what you see right when you have the beautiful opportunity to be district governor, it comes with gray hair, causing challenges as well. I will not sugar coat it in any stretch of the imagination. It'll stretch you in all kinds of directions. You didn't even know you could stretch. But it also has this. You get to you get to visit, right? You get to visit these amazing human beings that are giving their greatest gift, their time. This year has taught me that our time, we don't even know how finite our time is. It is literally our greatest gift, and we choose, freely as volunteers to give it and that that is a gift and a treasure. For me, that is a as a leader who makes mistakes, I try and make the most out of that time, right like so if a mistake happens that it becomes an opportunity to learn, an opportunity to grow, an opportunity to do better, so that that gift that time is is not, is not squandered in any way,

Peter Tonge: 11:12

Absolutely, and even when you lost your mom earlier this year, so you had the most concrete example of time

Shirley-Pat Gale: 11:22

Time, it can just be done, and that's, it's unfair, and it's, it's heart wrenching, and it's a roller coaster, but it's given me this shift in perspective that is, it's very freeing. I have said no more since my mother has passed than I think I ever have cumulative in my whole life, and I'm okay, it's no where, and there's no explanation. Just know,

Peter Tonge: 11:48

What a great lesson, though, what a great lesson to decide that you have an infinite resource and you're going to use it in the best ways that are best for you, and I know as an extension of that, knowing you, it's not a selfish what's best for you, it's what's best for me and what I'm taking forward in my community, because you do that, you

Shirley-Pat Gale: 12:07

How do I make the best impact. And what do I want to do? Right? Knowing perhaps that it's a little more finite than I assume given family the bit of family history I do know, right? Yeah, that okay. So I would like to still do these things that are, that are more for my own, what I fill my cup with, so I can continue to give. But also, like you said, How do I make the best a better I don't want to say best a better impact with my time, with my best gift?

Peter Tonge: 12:42

Yeah, I like, I like to use it better, because I agree with you completely. I don't do anything perfectly. Hopefully I do some things well,

Shirley-Pat Gale: 12:53

We're not the creator. Peter, I like, nobody's perfect. Like that. Elders say that all the time. Are you the Creator? Why do you keep trying to be perfect, try and be better, right? Know better, do better. That's kind of the teaching

Peter Tonge: 13:07

I like better. I'm a lot more comfortable with that I was I was at an awards presentation the other night, and they were describing this fellow who's had lots of accomplishments in the disability community and some of his traits that made him a great leader in the community. But the one that I took away, that I loved you, said that this person genuinely sees disagreement as an opportunity to find a better solution.

Shirley-Pat Gale: 13:37

It's an opportunity to do better, right? So you have, oh, I can hear mama. So Mama would say to me and her lessons come. Every decision you make right, every action you take has a consequence you choose, if that consequence is good or not. So if there is a disagreement, right? There's consequence and disagreement, but there's an opportunity, as you just said, for it to be better. So you can choose better or bitter. Do you want better or do you want bitter? I choose because it's also like you the end of a marriage, the end of an abusive relationship, the death of my mom, all kind of within a small period. You You have a choice in all of the overwhelming grief and the growth and the change and all that, to be bitter or to be better. And really helped me be better,

Peter Tonge: 14:39

and I'm going to carry that one with me for a while, and I'll be I'll be frank, it's going to be difficult for me to put into practice, because I often go into situations thinking I know what the solution is.

Shirley-Pat Gale: 14:50

This is a lesson for me. It is. It's a beautiful lesson for you. And. What a beautiful thing to bring into all the practice and all those processes that you're involved in and the many hats that you wear, right?

Peter Tonge: 15:07

Yeah, instead of going and going, Okay, well, we know what this is, you know. So I say it really jumped out of me, and I will carry it till I learn how to do it.

Shirley-Pat Gale: 15:19

Fair, right? Very fair, very fair. Yes,

Peter Tonge: 15:24

I gotta say to you that it's gonna be a straightforward because it's not for me, but you know,

Shirley-Pat Gale: 15:30

no, no, and for me, it's a roller coaster, right? So, good days, bad days, and in and in, the realization that it's okay not to be okay. And more and more, there are small pockets of those kinds of spaces. I would say, in our organization, I would say, you know, individuals like Gordon McNally and others who have been authentic yourself, right? Authentic in their leadership. I cried, right? I made people cry like and not on purpose, but we're going to feel. We're going to feel the feels, because telling hard truth requires that you feel the truth so that you can act in a in a better way. You do the same, right? So it's that authentic leadership that you show up. So when mom volunteered me into the organization, I remembered pretty quickly. Wait a minute, this is the organization I wrote about when I was 15 to get out of poetry so that I can either still can't write poetry. Peter, so compare. There was a $500.04 way essay contest. I'm like, What the hell is that? I didn't know. So I compared the the there was this article in Maclean's magazine about a judge grappling with when is the age that children should be able to choose their parent in in children or whatever, like a separation in those so that was what I compared the four way test to. Wrote it. I won the Rotary Club of salmon arm sent me on a step on a rose. It was called the Rose program back then. So I went as an exchange student to Japan as a neuro spicy kid who was bullied. That trip changed my life and probably saved my life.

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Peter Tonge: 17:50

Tell me more about that. I want to know more. Talked about it in passing, in the past, but

Shirley-Pat Gale: 17:56

So I wrote the thing. I went to Japan, but it was a time when I was really, teenagers can be knocked so nice, right? So there was, there was lots of bullying, especially because I was different, and I I thought differently and and, you know, the I, I thankfully didn't succeed in my attempts to commit suicide, but those mental health and mental health struggles being able to be chosen by a rotary club to see right as neuro spicy kids, we also have this innate sense of justice because we have experienced exclusion and injustice because of right. And for you, you have multiple intersects with your amazing magical abilities, but also how the world intersects with those so you're you have layers that I will never experience, but the ones that I did, you know, the where there were those thoughts, and I had my mom who sent me to therapy, and grateful for the mental health practitioners that helped Me and this rotary club that believed in this kid and the way she saw the world and sent me off to Japan. And I got to experience Japan for almost four weeks, and then had a Japanese young girl, Miko, we're still friends. She came and spent time with me, right? So I always say that that was the first time rotary saved my life. And as you, as you know, when we were I was coming home from Australia, just about to be inducted as district governor, my 17 year relationship, which unfortunately ended in not the best way, and with lots of different layers of abuse that led to PTSD, I was I went rotary saved my life a second time because it gave me purpose and connection and the group of the most beautiful aunties and uncles that I didn't have. But. Blood, but as you know, they go like this around you and your district governor and you have this amazing support team, right?

Peter Tonge: 20:08

Well, I find it, I find it so interesting that our stories interact in so many ways, because at the end of a relationship, Rotary, in many ways, did save my life. It gave me something to focus on it gave me. It gave me a community that I didn't have, and I didn't care. I'm going to join rotary because I have a community. I joined rotary because there were some friends there, and that's what I needed. And then it turned into a whole thing. And the the other thing that I think is is neat as you're telling your story, is we when we go through Rotary, and we throw out Rotary, and we do our public image in our social media, and whenever we talk about, you know, projects that we do, and fire trailers and water wells and whatever you've never heard anybody say, And we saved the young woman's life by giving her community.

Shirley-Pat Gale: 21:07

This is why I said to you, you know I I am blessed by a gift to be able to speak. That's also the thing that rotary helped me hone. Is this gift that I have and a space to do it, but I get the chance all the time to talk about my projects, and they're great. Check them out. They're fabulous. We do, both of us do great service, but how often, Peter, do we get to have a chance to have a conversation about inclusion, and what does that really mean, and what is the fragile gift of a community like Rotary, when people get caught up in the bureaucratic BS that, quite frankly, it doesn't make our service and our clubs any better. Nope, sorry, I'm gonna be blunt. It's what drives many people from clubs. It's made my relationship with Rotary, especially in the last year with everything else, a very fragile one myself and because of that, right? But it also gives me a place to be better, not bitter. So I've said no, a lot more in rotary in the last year than I have, and I'm like, No. And people like, What do you mean? No? I'm like, No. They're like, why? I'm like, there is

Peter Tonge: 22:27

no why. It's just No, I

Shirley-Pat Gale: 22:37

putting on the service hair shirt, so to speak,

Peter Tonge: 22:46

I have felt that at times. So I want to tell you a story about my wife's Rotary Club, and I think it's going to lead us to something else. So Nancy and I were both members of the Winnipeg Charleswood Rotary Club. And during covid Whatever Nancy said, I don't want to do the physical rotary club thing. I don't want to go to the golf club. I don't want to do whatever. So they are my club. Our club supported the development of a virtual satellite club. Now why I'm telling you about this is virtual virtual clubs, I think are great. And satellite clubs are great because you can adopt them in so many different ways. And I think there's a big future in rotary for that. But the thing that I thought was interesting is about 50% of the people in Nancy's rotary club have some form of disability, not because the club was designed for that. It was just a great way for folks to be able to contribute to rotary and be good rotaryans without going to the dinner meeting at the golf club or getting through the snow or or doing all of that. And I just, I just think there's the sort of that great side effect of opening up the world to more folks was great, which leads me into my question is, how do we create more spaces in Rotary for people who were have disabilities, or who neuro diverse, or who, for whatever reasons, need need to find the same space in rotary How do we do that? And I know that's a huge question, but that's

Shirley-Pat Gale: 24:37

We can spend some time unpacking, and maybe, if there's any rotary and whatever way you share this, right, if they want to join in, especially to this part of the conversation, I beg them to add, you know, comments, or whatever it is, I'm going to say that Nancy and I love that she has the name that my mama that's my mama's name is Nancy. I love that name. So I love Nancy's on it, right? So I am a virtual Rotarian. I don't even live in my district because of the work that I do and the safe space that I found with a group of Rotarians, they created a virtual space for me. And our club is hybrid, and half of our members are virtual, and half are in person. So it's a nice it's similar combination, right? And ours is more of a mix of those of us that work and there are diversity of work, right? Doesn't enable us to be in a single space, the same space every week. So this kind of works for us, this way, that that's one the other thing, I think, is, how do we amplify your voice? Peter right, like so, how and not in a not in a tokenism way, not in a performative way, but in the beautiful way that you did right at the Human Rights Museum, where, just by physically being in a space that you had already worked with, you showed everyone in that room. What is possible when a physical space is accessible to everyone, and it was beautiful. So I think that amplification of voice and then how do we how do we build new tables? Because, as we know, in rotary sometimes sitting at that table is a lot of emotional it's a lot of emotional labor. Sometimes it's simply and I, with all due respect to our rotary family, sometimes it's easier to build a new table, because, quite frankly, especially as someone who's who's alterability, I refuse to call it a disability, who's alterability. Refuse you have alter abilities that. How does the way I'm able to see the world, it's often not seen so I witness a lot of time people who go through life with what bliss it must be to go through life in that in that way, like I kind of looks boring, but also I don't like to not have to think about all of those pieces that an alterability forces you to consider whether you want to or not. Some of them are a gift, and some of them are are imposed upon you because of the way, right? Society is constructed,

Peter Tonge: 27:23

yeah, society.

Shirley-Pat Gale: 27:24

So we can change it. So that's the thing. How do we create so I agree with you, satellite, virtual and and I think because I was in the thick of it during the district governor year, there's some you still have some sphere of influence as a past district governor much more choice over your gift, your time. And I want to spend some more time kind of saying no, going back to right, to read my literacy, my heart project. And I want to focus on mental health so you're the first person outside of Heather mackinali and my bro star Ron, who walks his own alterability and alternate lifestyle in a beautiful way, they're the only ones that know about the suicide piece. So sharing this openly. Heather encouraged me to do it. She helped me go through it. I'm also refining it to share it in the first time, big and kind of with more layered detail and Nan, because I think it's important that we understand the fragility of the sense of community that we offer, and how it can actually save lives. But it takes, it takes concerted effort and work to make it a safe space, and when you continue to ask the same individuals to shoulder the emotional labor of that, it's exhausting, and I it's exhausting for you. It's exhausting for me, it's exhausting. For Lorelei, right? My indigenous sister, it's exhausting, which is why, often times when I, I'm asked in one of my as an adoptee, and they'll say, you do it, it. You know that's part of my responsibility is to help shoulder that emotional weight. We know better. Our organization now needs to do better. We've said it. We've talked about it for more than a decade. We know better. We need to do better. And I'm not saying that there isn't pockets of do but we need to amplify that.

Peter Tonge: 29:36

Yeah, and I have to be very open and say that. I don't think I've ever said this out loud before, either, but I've been suicidal in my life as well. So I know exactly where you're coming from, and have never been successful, but I've been in that place where I thought there wasn't another option. Um. So I get that what I guess, in and around, what you're saying by doing things like creating new tables, is finding ways to create safe spaces for whatever it is within rotary for people that need a safer space. Yeah, during quite a different year than most expected.

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Shirley-Pat Gale: 31:18

and and I think by doing that actually I don't even need to say, think I know Peter, my own lived experience. I know that when that happens, then we actually center the knowledge, the voice of those we want to serve with, and we move the antiquated on behalf of and for right to with, which creates these opportunities to participate, right? That table, build that table together to be able to then create a partnership where it's like, okay, we all have our space in this organization. It's all respected, and by doing so that inevitably shares the power, right, those gifts that we bring to our service. That's what my PhD taught me. That's what my lived experience taught me. That's what communities have taught me again and again. If you don't have that first bit though, it makes the other two they shift to this right on behalf of or for,

Peter Tonge: 32:18

Yeah, everybody in Rotary brings multiple talents to the table. I don't care who they are, and I just want to find ways to make us as an organization open enough so everybody can feel free to use all of their all of their talents.

Shirley-Pat Gale: 32:38

I agree with you. Like, how? How do we create a safe space where everyone's like, I want to give my time to that organization, and then they don't get baffled by the bureaucratic BS comes from, like, a lot of times we ask people why they left in the first couple of years. It's because of all of the baffled and baffled by the rotary BS,

Peter Tonge: 33:01

yeah, yeah. It gets

Shirley-Pat Gale: 33:02

in the way of creating that safe space and that ecosystem you're talking about, of service, right, bringing all those pieces together.

Peter Tonge: 33:11

That's it. Because I don't, I was going to say waste, and waste is not the right word. I don't want to misuse all of those great talents that are around us and either lose people or not make use of everything they have to offer because we haven't made room for

Shirley-Pat Gale: 33:28

and and it, and it's it's big and it's daunting, but I keep thinking, What can I do in the small spaces that that fill my cup and rotary And those are the ones I'm sort of focusing on. So, you know, shook up the rotary world a bit on the Pacific Northwest, and took us out of the largest bets in North America because they weren't, they weren't servicing our needs. And it was our clubs had been talking and asking for almost a decade, and so we did it, and, you know, better or worse, we did it, and we're giving it a go. So that's where I'm currently putting my my kind of, how do I do exactly what we're talking about? How do I create a safe space for presidents, secretaries and treasurers as little teams to come together in a weekend of learning together, right? To create these kinds of spaces. What do they need? What are the conversations? And then come together on the last day and sort of say, now you've heard them, district team. This is your marching orders for the next year. They've given it to you because they have said to you, this is what we would like to do, to address the joys and the purpose and the concerns in our clubs.

Peter Tonge: 34:55

And as a district leader, I would love that. I would love to have. Direction for okay, how do we support you? And yeah, there, there's certainly some of that, and there's some good communication with some clubs, and not so much with others, as you know, and I mean, but the more we can build that and mutually support, the further along we're going to get this. This reminds me a little bit, as you're saying. It of years ago in in Vancouver, the city council set up citizen assemblies to sort of support Council in making some really difficult decisions. Now I use assemblies in my work all the time, as you know, but I mean civically, the city of Vancouver did that because they didn't want to have responsibilities for difficult conversation, people. But the nice thing was, the people came back and said, Well, this is actually what we want you to do. And they did it, and it was really successful, right? So if we can do more of that in Rotary, it's like, okay, well, what do you need us for?

Shirley-Pat Gale: 36:00

And this is, this is indigenous, community based planning practices. These are practices since time immemorial. The answer is in the room, the answer is around the fire, the answer is within you. So, yeah, it's the shifting again, right from I'm training you, or it's, it's training, to it's a it's a conversation. And I don't, I don't know what they need in X community, I don't live there, you tell me, right? So giving, giving adults and leaders, just like you had when you were 30, when I joined, when you joined, when I joined, right? 30, like, what did we get? We got an opportunity to learn. We weren't spoon fed and handed everything. So this is my my attempt to shift back to some of those same civic democratic principles in how you facilitate leadership development. What we're doing isn't fitting the model anymore for what North America is asking us for it may still fit in other spaces and places that have different traditions, but it is clear from not just the numbers in our own organization, but civil society organizations across North America that we need to shift. Millennials have told us, right? The next generations have told us this is we. We don't want to be baffled by the bureaucracy. And I'm going to be blunt, there's not enough Gen Xers to bridge the gap. So we got to be agile, we got to be flexible, and we got to create. We got to maybe get out of the way so they can create these spaces and just support them in the best way possible, right?

Peter Tonge: 37:40

Yeah, absolutely. And right? Yeah, absolutely. I tune in on get out of the way. Because sometimes, sometimes, particularly leaders, we have this bad thing of, you know, we're leading, so we better, you know, we better be standing in the front No, get out of the way.

Shirley-Pat Gale: 38:01

Get out of the way. Mentorship has taught me that, especially in sort of the more apprentice type mentorship that happens in community, it's been delightful to it's so joyful, right? Lead from with leave lead from within the circle is consensus building more difficult? Yes, but the the whole process is like, your your lesson, your teaching, there's opportunity in the disagreement. And the opportunity is consensus, right? Is understanding the different knowledges and lived experience that come to the table,

Peter Tonge: 38:43

and with consensus comes ownership right, and it's all ultimately what we want to have right.

Shirley-Pat Gale: 38:48

Where is your accountability and responsibility, and that's another piece right that indigenous governance in many spaces has has taught me over and over, that with rights come responsibilities, and you have to be accountable to the protocol, the values, the law, to your kin and and it's a it's a different lens to look, kind of even at Rotary so again, where do my where? Where's my time, right? My finite gift best suited to make impact using, as you said, my my talents and tools.

Peter Tonge: 39:28

Absolutely, absolutely. So this, this, this is fantastic. I'm going to, I'm going to leave an open question at the end of the podcast, and that's for anybody that's listening that wants to, that wants to weigh in, how do we create safe spaces in rotary for people that need safer spaces, if anybody has an idea, if anybody wants to throw into this, I'm more than happy to listen. I'm more than happy to be part of it, and anybody that wants to share ideas on creating safer spaces. Um. Um, Rotary is wonderful. It's contributed both to our lives immensely, but we can do more, and creating safer spaces is, I think, something that we can do. So I'm I'm going to leave it open there and just say, anybody wants to wait in please let us know, because I think it's a cool thing. It was a

Shirley-Pat Gale: 40:19

joyful, a joyful way to spend an afternoon. Thank you, Peter, for giving your time, not only to me, but to these kinds of courageous conversations. They're very needed in our organization. And please anybody listening, we certainly do not have all the answers, and any idea is a good idea. Try it if you make a mistake. Heck, Mama Nancy would tell you, just learning something, try again.

Peter Tonge: 40:44

I love it. Thank you so much. You

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I thank you so much for joining us on another great episode of talking Rotary. We would love to hear from you. Please send us your comments and story ideas and you can share with us easily by sending us an email At feedback, at talking rotary.org. Let's keep talking Rotary. You you.