Ep. 114 - Hospitality Pathways: Preparing Students for the Industry

 🎓✨ Thinking about a career in hospitality or tourism? In this episode, Dr. Joseph Tormey, founding director of CSUSB’s Hospitality Management program on the Palm Desert Campus, breaks down the two exciting pathways available: the BA in Administration with a concentration in Hospitality Management and the BA in Hospitality and Tourism. Learn how each program prepares students with hands-on experiences, industry connections, and the skills employers are looking for. Plus, learn how you can take advantage of education abroad, clubs, internships, and scholarships. If you’re curious about which degree is the right fit, this conversation will give you the insider’s view. 

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Transcript

Matt Markin  
Hello and welcome to the CSUSB advising podcast. This is Matt Markin from the ASUA Academic Advising Office, and I have the pleasure to interview today and that is Dr. Joseph Tormey, the founding director of the Hospitality Management Program at the CSUSB Palm Desert campus. Dr. Tormey, welcome.

Dr. Joseph Tormey  
Thank you, Matt. It's great to be here. 

Matt Markin  
So before we jump in and talk about majors, I thought it'd be great to kind of find out a little bit more about you. Can you tell listeners about your journey and path in higher ed and being at CSUSB? 

Dr. Joseph Tormey  
Well, I won't start at the very beginning, but I will tell you, I think it has to do with my personality and it which is part curiosity and interest and exploration. I never set out to be working in higher education or in academia. In general, fact, I've worked in three different industries and probably a dozen different organizations in various capacities and roles. You know, my undergraduate was in business and finance, and several years into that career, I decided to try something different, and I started working at a restaurant and hospitality related companies, and I loved it. And from that I was able to travel and work in a few different countries, and the last international assignment I had, I returned to the United States and discovered teaching, almost by accident, but I was inspired by my children's educators in Southeast Asia, enough to apply for a position at a community college, starting a culinary arts program. And I love being in higher education, and consider myself still very connected to industry and that that helps me to be a better educator and also mentor to the students and having and having a close relationship with industry organizations and leaders here, near and around campus is a benefit and one of the strengths of the of the Hospitality Management program that's in our sixth year now. So we just started our sixth year, and I've been at CSUSB for seven years.

Matt Markin  
That is awesome. And I think that's just a great segue into starting talking about some of the majors. So, you know, a lot of our students want to know about different majors, what it all involves? What are they about? So the two specific that we're going to talk about is, if you can kind of give us an overview of the the bachelor's degree in administration with the concentration in hospitality management, as well as the BA in tourism and hospitality.

Dr. Joseph Tormey  
So that's right, we have two undergraduate degrees, and for freshmen entering, usually they will choose the business administration degree with a concentration in Hospitality Management, which is based on a wide and comprehensive foundation and business core classes like accounting and Finance and computer science, management, human resources, entrepreneurship, marketing, whereas the major in tourism and hospitality management is, at least initially, it's geared for transfer students coming from community colleges, and the focus is primarily on on tourism and hospitality. But it's not to say that freshmen could not choose that major as well. They're certainly open to choosing either one. So one is a generalist with a strong business, comprehensive business, variety of business courses, Foundation, and the other one is a is a specified, you know, major in the content area of tourism and hospitality. So those are some of the surface similarities and differences, and as far as the student experiences, they are different, whether it's a freshman spending four years with us or transfer students spending two years with us. Which are, are the norms in general. We have a we have a quite a build out a robust professional development aspect to the to the theory theoretical education. And freshmen are able to take more advantage of that and also have the potential to get to know the faculty over a longer time horizon, and some of the students actually have interest to do research with their advisors. So by being freshman, sophomore and juniors, they're preparing for that. They're preparing to do or to engage in research. Research type of projects. And it makes it a little easier when the students have been with us for a few years and they get to know the faculty, and vice versa. And you know, some of their their goals and interests come into focus a little more, versus a transfer student, who's they're very accomplished, coming from a community college or or even four years colleges that perhaps they decided to leave and come and come finish their degree with us. It's a it's a faster pace, but it's a shorter time horizon. So that's those are some of the deeper the deeper issues, you know, more professional development, and there's more engagement of all the different resources and clubs and other activities that CSUSB has to offer, and we do the university does offer a lot of a lot of activities and a lot of enrichment types of experiences, whether it's co or extra curricular activities.

Matt Markin  
And yeah, so there's variety within both of these depending on students and interests. And I guess you probably get the question too from students about like, maybe what industry trends that each of these programs might address specifically?

Dr. Joseph Tormey  
That's a good question. I will tell you, ChatGPT is on the front of our mind now, and artificial intelligence, so that's certainly a trend, I think, in academia as well as industry, where we're just starting to figure out, but we're also seeing some implementation and the helpfulness of these tools. But certainly technology, more technology industry, I think this speaks to the consumer, speaks to guests, customers. You know, they have certain expectations and whatever devices they use in their own personal lives or in their business. This is, this is, it's, it's a relationship or spill over effect and and some of the experiences that they look they look to take advantage of recreation, leisure or business slash Recreation Leisure. So we're teaching a course. We have a few, a few new courses that we're teaching that are using, that are starting to integrate AI and other other technologically advanced tools, including it's called Customer Relationship Management, and some of the components or modules of Salesforce are being taught, which is a CRM program, that's that's a global program that industry uses. And so it's not only relevant in the classroom in theory, but it's also relevant in industry and practice and application. And we have other courses in the areas of sustainable sustainability, sustainable development, not only environmentally, but economically, but also socially. And I think using tools like like AI are helping students to become more informed about about some of the some of the trends or the expectations or practices of of in organizations, but also with the consumers. And so these are the things that we try to mirror in the curriculum and align, align ourselves with an industry, and here in the Coachella Valley, we have, it's a world class destination. It is globally known in my travels, especially to East Asia students. Everybody knows about the Coachella Music Festival, but certainly the big resorts. We have a lot of large resort property, hotel properties, and that attract a lot of a lot of different varieties of guests, whether it's, you know, in the summertime, your family's coming here, especially on weekends, because the resorts have these really big pools, and they are cooled in the summer, They have cooling devices, because the heat is is is, is one thing that attracts some, some leisure travelers. But during the seasonal part of the year here, because it is a seasonal destination, and in the Coachella Valley, or greater Palm Springs area, you have a lot of fortune, 100 companies that come and they book these conferences and they'll buy out the resort for a weekend or for three or four days, and it's quite a large group. Won't mention names, but they're famous, and they'll fly in from all over the world. And certainly they have a different expectation in terms of of of services, and you know, that's another example. Again, we try to stay very close to what industry is doing, especially here locally, but also nationally and globally. And we do have an advisory board of 30 leaders from the valley that give us input and. Then, you know, we survey them from time to time about curriculum, about, you know, what courses or what, what topics, what areas should we be teaching the students, or what, what certification should they have? And we try to match, we try to match this as closely as possible, especially with the larger international brands like like Marriott, like Hyatt, like Hilton, and many others that that have established, you know, businesses in the destination here,

Matt Markin  
Yeah, so it's very much you're saying ahead of the curve and staying up to date, and, you know, even updating the as trends change and definitely that area is also a destination spot, as you're saying, for a lot of different companies and just even individuals, to vacation there or whatnot. I'm sure you also get this question from students, and now we get it a lot as well. Is the career question, the what skills am I learning? Kind of thing. Can you talk about, maybe the skills that students are developing within the industry today, or even within both potential majors, whether it is the concentration hospitality management or the major in tourism and hospitality, the career opportunities that might be available for students?

Dr. Joseph Tormey  
Definitely and so socializing, I think, is really important. It's, it's it's interesting that we have this conversation today. I think when I were, when I was a student in college, many years ago, maybe we did not give it much thought, or we didn't think about it. Certainly, the internet, with social media, I think, has impacted, you know, everybody, especially students and and then the pandemic didn't help. So I think because of these two, you know, seminal moments in history, we're still living, living in it, or living through it, you know, it's it, it's impacted, you know, in not a positive way. So there's a lot of socializing that that we do that's intrinsic, that's already embedded with club activities, where students are organizing guest speakers or reaching out and networking with some of the contacts that we have, and they manage these, you know, learning to create relationships, manage the relationships. And you know, the curriculum is all about interpersonal skills. You know, many of the students work. Many of our students work here at the campus, and many, many in hospitality work because they have to, they have to help support their families and and that makes one more mature. And I believe working when you go to school and you participate in clubs, but the curriculum, the extra, the extracurricular activities we do, it's a lot of role playing, you know, in different, you know, learning, learning about active listening, the ones that work, we discuss some of the challenges they have in the in the delivery of services, in their in their particular job and it and which may, may or not, may or may not, be hospitality. It could be working for a large company like WalMart or Target, and that is valuable because you're interacting with a guest, you're you're trying to deal with sometimes challenging situations, different expectations, perceptions, with guests. And sometimes they're not happy, they're angry, or they they want things, or they demand things. And it, you know, this is, this is where emotional intelligence comes in, or trying to come up with Win Win solutions for the company and for the guests. So the fact that they're doing this all the time, and then we're discussing it theory in the classroom, and then we're engaging in clubs and trade show trips to other cities, and we have an annual trip study abroad as well. I think this helps broaden their horizon, their mindset, but also it helps, it helps their deeper learning and understanding of different, you know, different of different areas that if they were not working or engaging in socializing, I think it's going to be harder for them to to come up to speed when they graduate. And so a lot of the students already have the package, if you could call it that, they have the full package, and we're just letting them go. I mean, they're just really smart, hard working, and it's a it's great to see them, you know, making decisions together as officers of clubs and, you know, planning itineraries together, or planning guest speakers. And we have, we have the annual gala too, which is a student volunteer event. It's a fundraising event where students have a lot of, you know, parts that they're accountable responsible for different aspects of it. So all of these different exercises lead up to developing their. Skill set, you know, the soft skills, and the skill set that's really missing, I think, today, when you go on a job interview, you know, looking somebody in the eye, shaking their hand firmly, having confidence, you know, and even your tie. Or we could help, you know, we help students with, you know, getting a tire if they need help with that. You know, we have a big department store that has a special discount this month and and certainly that's very helpful, you know, but we'll help. We'll help them overcome any economic obstacle that they may perceive, so that should not be a worry to them. And the most important part is showing up on time. Is file on their face, manage, you know, communicating, expressing, you know, engaging, you know, being able to answer open ended questions that an employee may have. These are things that we're already doing in the program that are embedded in different courses.

Matt Markin  
Very cool, because, yeah, as you were answering that question, I was just thinking that, you know, there's definitely different types of majors where many of the classes are just very lecture based. So it's kind of just theory, but within what you all are teaching, it's their students are able to put that theory into practice?

Dr. Joseph Tormey  
Yes, that is correct. And I think it's the nature of hospitality. It's very hands on. It's very much an applied, you know, theory applied to practice. And, you know, hospitality is a word that some people know what it is. There's no like one correct, you know, universal definition. It can represent an industry or a business, type of business. It's also a characteristic of customer service or guest service, or or passengers or clients or consumers. And, you know, but as an industry, you know, we all have a favorite restaurant. We all may have a favorite vacation destination, and that's, that's how we could, you know, see this word as being warm and fuzzy, you know, because it it, it brings to mind a pleasurable experience. You know which? Which? Most cases, I think it's true. But sometimes you may not have a pleasant experience, but you know it. As far as the learning aspect, where we are fortunate, because there's a lot of experiential activities that the program, you know, is known for, an annual gala, you know, fundraising gala. We're teaching the students how to fundraise and actually to execute a themed event for 200 people. We have an annual study abroad to to a country or countries in Europe. This is our fourth year. We're planning the trip. The students plan the trip. They they design an itinerary, and they budget an operating budget also. So that's that's very practical and hands on, and that's in the classroom, and then we take the trip in the middle of the semester. So that's like, really immersive learning. Now you're now you're learning, or you're living what, what you what the research you did as a group, as a team, because it's, you know, that's another example of mirroring, you know, real world practices, because hospitality is very, very labor intensive. It requires a lot of individuals doing a lot of things right on a daily basis to deliver a lot of great experiences, you know. So it's very much team, group oriented, you know, the projects that we have in the program.

Matt Markin  
So you were mentioning about, like, study abroad. You were mentioning about assisting students, like, let's say if they need a tie or whatnot. We know money can can be an issue, you know, paying for tuition, things like that. Trips. Do you offer any grants or scholarships that are available for students?

Dr. Joseph Tormey  
Yes, the program is very fortunate. We have, you know, from the gala, the annual gala fundraising, we have corporate sponsors, and then ticket sales, those are the primary means to to generate revenues. And usually we'll, we'll have an area resort host us, and, you know. So we make a profit on that. And sometimes there are other external grants and scholarships available. And students at this campus in hospitality have received over $100,000 from outside entities directly to them. The program is awarded in five years, about $150,000 so from grants and scholarships that that we that the program itself has applied for or raised on its own. You know very much our philosophy here is, as educators in Hospitality Management is, of course, the academic side, but the professional development is important. Important that will bring them closer to their you know, ideal interview, potentially job pathway, you know, if they have professional development experience under their belt as well. But we're also concerned personally, and this is where, you know, student needs financial help, we are able to, you know, we have, we have done some fundraising. We've had some very generous benefactors, and with endowments set up where we could help the student like directly and quickly. And then the community here too is wonderful. I mean, there are, there are organizations that have, it's almost like Thrift, really nice thrift stores, where, if somebody needs a suit or a dress or a skirt, you know, in almost brand new condition. You know this, these, these types of services or stores are available too. So, you know, it's all about having a student like feeling confident to express that and coming, coming to ask for help. So one stop shopping in the way, you know, to develop them into and ready, ready when they graduate, to get the best position they could possibly get. The generosity of of of our university, you know, in talent and the resources, the generosity from our industry supporters here and also stakeholders in the community, generosity and spirit and in time and in wallet, it's it's enabled us to pivot quickly to help students quickly, if there is, if there is that, If there is that need so and these are the resources that my colleague and I, Dr Michelle russon, are, you know, we're always reaching out and relationship building and, you know, meeting with Students on a weekly basis and sometimes every other day. So we're very hands on in the program. We're very hands on in terms of, you know, things that anybody needs help on or needs assistance with. And we're also very thankful to the community. We're thankful to our supporters, and we make sure that we're good stewards of their of their generosity to our program.

Matt Markin  
Yeah, it definitely sounds like that. And you know, I know this recording. You know, with these talking about these programs, that this is at the Palm Desert campus, but let's say a student is listening to this, and they're attend the San Bernardino campus. Is this something that they're able to take part in as well?

Dr. Joseph Tormey  
Yes. So San Bernardino is an hour and 15 minutes away by bus, and there's a really nice bus that comes between both campuses. It's free for students and San Bernardino students could absolutely enroll in Hospitality Management. You know, face to face classes are taught, are taught mostly in Palm Desert. However, students from San Bernardino County can take any of the courses through web campus, you know, online, you know, and synchronous and asynchronous. So we encourage them to do that. You know, at some point in the future, we may start offering courses in the program and to campus locations. That's, that's the ultimate goal. As we grow, and we're growing, so we've grown since starting, we've grown 300% and, you know, and that's, it's a miracle to me that we survived pandemic. That's when the program launched during lockdown. But it's no surprise that we've grown because, you know, it is the number one workforce and employer in the Coachella Valley, greater Palm Springs. You know, 25% of the jobs in California, it's probably 10% globally, it's 10% of the workforce and hospitality and tourism. So San Bernardino students, if there's an interest, they definitely should look at majoring or minoring in Hospitality Management. And we do have several students who are currently from San Bernardino, and some take the bus, and some drive down, and some just take the courses, you know, on web campus, on webcam and, you know, say synchronous and asynchronously. 

Matt Markin  
Yeah, I mean, just hearing that like grew by 300% I mean, I think that just also shows the like. It's a testament to like you and your colleagues and the dedication that you have for the programs and for the students and for the industry, earlier you were mentioning about potentially clubs within the program. Can you talk a little bit more about the student clubs or organizations available?

Dr. Joseph Tormey  
Yep, so the hospitality fine. An technology professionals club, hftp, it's a national organization, and we have a local chapter here. There's a there's a professional chapter, and there's a student chapter. So where my colleague, Dr Michelle russon initiated the student chapter, and she's also on the national board, it meets once or twice a month, and we have several club officers. And not only do we have events on campus with the local chapter here, but we have events off campus. And, you know, we've had events with bankers, with certified public accountants, and now we're trying to this year, it's the year of technology, so we're trying to accentuate the tech side of the hospitality finance technology professionals club. And it's related to hospitality, but not necessarily related to hospitality. We have students from accounting and finance, from cybersecurity, that are in the club. And then, usually once a year, there's a dinner at a maybe a steakhouse that's sponsored by the local chapter, and we have a student a special student rate, which helps. There's also a convention this year that four of the students and Dr. Russen are traveling to Orlando, Florida, to attend the convention, and we received money from the community. And there was some fundraising that the that the club did, and they raised, I think they raised about $5,000 to help pay for airfare and their hotels. So, you know, the club is is popular, and it's growing. And you know, regardless of if they're a hospitality student or not, I think all, all students should join a club activity, and, you know, and build a network while they're a student in campus, on campus in this time of their life, because they probably will never have an opportunity in life where they'll be with so many of their peers in a setting such as this, where they could, where they're they're exposed to so many different, you know, methods and and thoughts and different opinions and information and and hopefully, discourse. And I think that the socializing aspect of hospitality is it's our small contribution to get them more engaged, and whether it's in the classroom, you know, confidence to ask a question or to answer a question, or to get them active in the club as an officer, or first a member, then become an officer. I think these are important growth, growth moments, and I and I and arguably more important today than ever because of the anti social nature of social media.

Matt Markin  
Yeah, no. Excellent points, and I think this is a great segue into the next question that I have is, you know, because you're talking about this is like the one time they have, you know, access to, you you know all these other students that that are just like them in the program, but also access to you and other faculty, and you were mentioning earlier about mentoring. So I guess a question would be like, how do you help students with the advising or even the mentorship? How are you supporting them?

Dr. Joseph Tormey  
So we again, we have an open door philosophy and, you know, but make an appointment within reason. So, and that's a that's a time management skill of teaching at the same time. So yeah, you could drop in if my door is open, but it's better to make an appointment. So set an expectation. Make an appointment online. Make sure you use your school email. Let's learn to value somebody's time and but certainly we're here for their success, because that's our success, indirectly, as a program, as a university, and to champion them and to support them wherever we can. So you know, some some of it is a duplication, like career. Services is a wonderful on the Palm Desert campus. Is a wonderful service that I request students meet with the Career Services person here who is very connected locally, and, you know, ask them similar or different questions, but get to know them. Get comfortable with them, you know, get to know your professors. Ask them questions, you know. And certainly, you know, I serve on about 12 different advisory boards and high school community colleges, but also some businesses. So you know, we have an active network. And in in, in rare cases, I've had students who, you know, graduated for community college, served the military, came back, got their four year degree. These are exceptional human beings. And. A very mature, great students. They have work experience in addition to military. So I will, you know, for these types of students, I will pick up the phone and call, you know, a leader at a property or a leader in a business, and say, Listen, I think you should meet this person. You know, I'm going to send you their resume. And in some cases, you know, it's a little unorthodox. Companies don't always do that these days, but sometimes the students have an interview within a week, you know, and the organization wants to meet them. So there's that would be, you know, that's the best case scenario. But more often than not, you know, again, I said, I mentioned, most students work. It makes it easier for us to guide them, have them look at a website of a company they want to work for and see if a position is posted that they would like to, you know, apply for. And if that's the case, I recommend they apply for it. And then I will contact the property, if it's the HR person that I know. So being active in in the in the businesses, in the business segment here and an industry, and being visible, I think it's kind of an obligation I have. I have to be visible in the community, through all to all the different organizations. Because most of the time I contact them, it's on behalf of a student and, yeah, but you know, my door is open to students who are not hospitality students too, and if I if I could ever help them, that's my attitude, and that's what I share with them in courses that I've taught that are not hospitality related, whatever degree they have. Because, as I mentioned, one in four jobs here are related to my background and our program. It doesn't mean they necessarily have to be a hospitality major or minor. Chances are one of their family members work in hospitality, or have worked in hospitality, in tourism here that includes, it could include government, because, you know, there are tourism departments and some local governments here. There are educators in high school and community colleges here in the county, in tourism and hospitality. That's all. That's another part of industry, or that I never considered when I was a student, undergraduate student, country clubs. It's another type of business model, and it could actually be a very good career. I do not play golf. I try, but I'm not that good. But if students have an interest, you know, we've sponsored the program has sponsored golf lessons before at a country club here, PGA Country Club, and the PGA golf instructor gave lessons to 12 of our students, 1212, Palm Desert campus students. It's not only hospitality, because I thought that would be a good idea to bring them a little closer to you know what I see is a gap, because this is a game and a privilege I'll never really be able to take advantage of. But now the door is open. So you know, if and they're young in their career, so this is the time to think about it. Think about maybe just working there. So that's that's another example of mentoring, where you're literally bringing them to the source, you know, bringing them to the organization. Or occasionally, we may have lunch with different leaders in the Coachella Valley, and invite students to sit at the table with us and get to know these, some of these individuals, these influential individuals who could, who have a network much, much larger and longer than I do. 

Matt Markin  
I love that. Yeah, you are, you literally are bringing them to the source, which is amazing. Now, I know you don't have a crystal ball, but with your experience and what you've seen, how do you see the hospitality and tourism industries evolving in the next, I don't know, five to 10 years?

Dr. Joseph Tormey  
I remember a slogan that a motivational speaker said, this is probably 25 years ago, and I was a general manager of a restaurant, and we're working on the corporate side, high tech soft touch. High Tech soft touch. I think no matter how technologically sophisticated we become, I think the soft touch people will crave at some point or some way, and perhaps this is this may speak to, like, why so many people have pets, you know, that's something that they could express this soft touch with a lot easier than humans. You know, in the pet industry is like massive now, you know, billions and billions of dollars. So again, I think leisure and recreation will always be here. It's, you know, it goes back to the classics, the Greeks and the. Ancient Romans. And, you know, few in society would travel because there's a curiosity and a motivation. Most people could not back then, but they were indentured servants for the most part. But the one percenters, or the 10 percenters, you know, they that was, that was a function of human nature, you know, wanting to venture far beyond their their normal, you know, domicile region. And I think you know, if anything, we're going to travel more. And I think we're starting to see travel come back at or even higher than pre pandemic levels, and globally, it's growing. You know, right now, we're not seeing that immediately, but, you know, the next four or five years, we'll start to see probably more more tourists coming to the United States, but other countries, I mean Asia, you know, East Asia, especially India, China, Indonesia. These are like three of the top five six countries in terms of population and wealth generation. So there's going to be a lot of traveling and staying at hotels, eating at restaurants, visiting cultural heritage sites. So I don't think the business will, the business model will change fundamentally. I know luxury segment has really grown, and there's a lot of the luxury segment here, but everybody wants to, I think experience a nice destination, and the greater Palm Springs area is, really, is an oasis. There's no place like it, and but I also think that every, every country you know, many cities in different countries, have beauty and really interesting things to visit. And you know the idea of a sustainable experience, I'm not sure Americans in general are willing to make that type of a sacrifice. You know, I've stayed at a sustainable resort where there's no hot water. There's no hot water heater. Uh, electricity is really minimal solar, you know, I didn't mind it, but my my I was traveling my wife and my children time they minded it. I forgot to tell them there was no hot water. Hot water. But we played cards at night by candlelight and but it was very rural. You know it was. It was a group of huts, I don't know, like, how, how far beyond, you know, the current expectation we're willing to go to give up some of our creature comforts, you know, and but there are, you know, camping is, is, is another segment, you know, national parks, you know camping there are, there are a lot of campers and hikers. I grew up in the scouts, so I camped when I was younger, and I do think, you know medical technology, you know for some segments of the population where it's a it's an experience, you go away, but also they're monitoring you. And you're, you have a private chef, you're eating really organic, holistic food, and then monitoring all your vital signs. And you know, medical tourism is has grown. It's that's been around for a few decades at least, and I think that will continue to be a to be a it's not a fad, it's a trend. It's a segment of of the industry. But really, at the core, I believe people want to travel to see experience new things, you know, and that, and that could be defined as somebody traveling within their own state and never wanting to travel outside their home state. And that's totally fine, you know. I think it really depends on the individual. But for others, they want to go to Latin America, country in Latin America, or they want to go to a country in Europe, or long haul travelers from the States, from LA, they may want to to learn about Asia, East Asia or Southeast Asia, and travel to one of those countries. You know, looking for more of a cultural experience. 

Matt Markin  
So a lot happening, a lot that will continue to grow. And I guess as we wind down with this recording, you know, you might have a current student listening to this. Maybe it's a prospective student, whether they're in high school or community college, looking to transfer. What advice do you have for anyone that might, just might be interested in considering hospitality or tourism as a career?

Dr. Joseph Tormey  
I'll start with a basic suggestion. It's a great career, or it's a great job. You know, it's a great part time job through college, high school, college or even. As a side hustle when you're working Monday through Friday somewhere, absolutely it's a great industry to work in for for side money, weekend money, summer money. It's a great transition career, and it's a great professional career. So there's really parts of it that that appeal to everybody, and I know, growing up on the East Coast, before I became an educator, in the summers, we went to the Jersey Shore, and I would see some of my children's teachers there at restaurants, working as servers. And it kind of makes sense. You know, it's when you're not teaching in the summer, you're off, keep busy, make some side money, or you just may enjoy it. You know? It's a difference. If you're a grade school teacher, it's left, left side of the brain, right side of the brain kind of thing, you know, it's if you're teaching math and social studies, and then the summer, you just waiting on adults and families and just fast paced, intense pressure, you know? But short, short periods of time every day. It's a thrill. It's an adrenaline rush. You pick up some side money, so be open to some ideas about hospitality, but explore, you know, explore, consider it and explore it. I think one of the things that motivate motivated me to get into this industry. Well, you know, first when I was working as a worker, and then I was an educator, I wanted to learn a skill that would be transferable anywhere in the world and in that and that came true for me, whether by by purposeful planning or accidentally. I've worked in five states. I've worked in five countries, and I think at at the at the core of this was it's meeting different types of people, meaning meeting very diverse people and ethnicities. I really enjoyed the people aspect. And I still, I still do so so hospitality and tourism was the mechanism for me. It was, it was the vehicle that to, you know, indirectly bring me to an area that I wanted to work with, and now, certainly in higher education, I'm doing that hospitality program, as I mentioned, we, you know, it's a lot of interpersonal skills, building emotional intelligence, social intelligence, you know, active Listening and role playing and conflict resolution that transcends hotels, restaurants, country clubs, theme parks, cruise ships, because our services economy in the United States is 80% so that's transferable to non leisure recreation, types of businesses. You could work financial services. You could work in government. You could work in health care. So that's a skill set that I think is in demand most by by employers and and organizations today. And you know, you will learn a lot about that, and you'll learn to develop these knowledge skills and abilities if you if you major or minor in Hospitality Management, but pick a second minor too. So if you choose, if you study in Hospitality Management, pick a second minor, a strength that you may have. If you like numbers, maybe accounting and finance. If you like people, maybe human resources. If you like being creative and coming up with ideas, maybe marketing, or if you like coding, or if you like working, you know, with computers, maybe you could. You could double minor in hospitality and computer science or cyber security. So it's, it's a interdisciplinary field of study that I would suggest students be open to or consider, and they could always contact me, CSUSB, Hospitality Management, if they Google that my name comes up and contact information is there.

Matt Markin  
All right, awesome. Well, I definitely learned a lot in this interview. Dr. Tormey, thank you so much for being on the podcast today.

Dr. Joseph Tormey  
My pleasure, Matt, it's great. It was great being here with you.