✨“It's really about humanizing your brand”💫
Recently I was a guest on “International Expansion Explained”, a live show hosted by Kathryn Read, an international sales and marketing consultant to discuss about the new truth of global branding and the ways brands are becoming more personal.
💡We dive deep into
✨"Strong brands like to collaborate with other strong brands, but there's always the people behind it to start that.”💫
Watch us: 📹 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijENgkgcq6M
Get in contact with Kathryn Read:
Get in touch with Brigitte Bojkowszky:
Get in touch with Brigitte Bojkowszky:
👉 Download Your Entrepreneurial Branding Starter Checklist: https://courses.bridgetbrands.com/f/entrepreneurial-branding-starter-checklist
✨“It's really about humanizing your brand”💫
Recently I was a guest on “International Expansion Explained”, a live show hosted by Kathryn Read, an international sales and marketing consultant to discuss about the new truth of global branding and the ways brands are becoming more personal.
💡We dive deep into
✨"Strong brands like to collaborate with other strong brands, but there's always the people behind it to start that.”💫
Watch us: 📹 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijENgkgcq6M
Get in contact with Kathryn Read:
Get in touch with Brigitte Bojkowszky:
Get in touch with Brigitte Bojkowszky:
👉 Download Your Entrepreneurial Branding Starter Checklist: https://courses.bridgetbrands.com/f/entrepreneurial-branding-starter-checklist
Good afternoon and welcome to episode five of international expansion explained. My guest today Brigitte brickowski is a global branding strategist. She's a podcast host, a speaker, a published author. Her boutique branding strategy agency, Bridget brands helps companies craft meaningful strategies to effectively elevate their brands to the next level. With her academic, practical and personal brand experience, Bridget helps personal and organisational brands to unleash their full potential and to shine authentically. Her experience includes 22 years of teaching global branding and marketing management at universities around the world. And she's done projects with dozens of brands named companies such as the European Investment Fund, L'Oreal, VW, and Porsche. Bridget, thank you for joining me today. It's a real pleasure to have you here. Thank you, Catherine. It's a real pleasure being on your show today. Thank you for the invitation. Now, before we actually get into me interrogating you on all of these different questions that I'd like to know more about, maybe you can just tell us how it was that you actually got into international business in the first place, and what was it that drew you to branding? Okay, so that's actually a long story. And then interesting fashion, but to cut it short, I slipped in without thinking much about it. And this was at a very early stage in my life, and I was working as a flight attendant at Lauder air, you know, when being on the go and flying 24 days a month, to all the different continents as I did, then you get to know other cultures, mentalities, their desires, wants, needs, and likes, and also what brands they buy, they use they admire and they value. And I can see that having been on that many long haul flights during a month, then serving people from all of the different countries and making them you know, feel comfortable and bored, no matter where they come from, what nationality they are, and what they need. And what they desire, is somehow international business is international marketing, it is international branding, you are offering a service in the best possible way. So as a flight, face of the airline onto you in that moment, represents louder, or Thai or whoever you're flying for. Exactly, you are the representative of the brand, you do your job. And people disembark the plane, they walk away with an impression with an experience they just had, or good or bad memories, whatever, you know, how you made them happy, and whatever service you provided for them. And that creates a perception they have about the brand. And you need to consider yourself basically as the last element in the value chain. And it's right there where you get in touch and in contact with the final customer. So it is you as a person who is the last and the most important in that value chain who can make or break it when it comes to branding. And that experience makes the customer decide then whether or not to fly with you again, whether to come back and choose you over another airline to get from A to B to C. And very often against all odds because sometimes you do go with that airline even though it means longer flying times or adverse departure times or arrival times. Yeah. So no matter whether you are Starbucks barista, or an airline flight attendant, a waiter at the Cheesecake Factory or wherever you are, or the Amazon delivery person, or you are a bank clerk, you are endorsing the company you're working for, for that specific brand. And when you see that the aggregate every single person that is working for that particular brand is contributing to the strength or well being of that brand. And that's why also the customer is then when the brand is perceived as being strong, is willing to pay a premium for that particular brand. Whatever their brand identity is that they are contributing through all the people that are working for that brand. And that makes a perception in the market. Oh, it certainly does. I mean, just to go back to the to the airline analogy I I know how often I can I can tell you have several specific, very bad experiences that I've had on airlines. American, let's say on United Airlines, for example. And I can also tell you if really amazing experiences that I've had with Austrian with LM, and Chinese airlines where people have really gone out of their way to make you feel like if not just, you know, not just a number in the system, who is who is causing a lot of work today. So yeah, exactly. And that time as a flight attendant got me interested in brands, and every time I was in a big city, that was very often during a month in Singapore's Park, la Miami, you name it. Yeah, I followed this friends over time, I kind of did my window shopping tours. And I also watched the people, why do they consume? And how do they consume particular brands in that culture? So I was a cosmopolitan from a very, very young age. And, and I think I will always be so travelling and getting to know the world is really interesting in broadening the horizon and get an understanding of the world. And yeah, so that's, that's how I got into into training. Ya know, I mean, it's always very interesting, because everybody's story is so new, unique. But there are also so many of us who got into international business somehow, maybe not completely unintentionally, but let's say we kind of slid in and didn't end up where we thought we were going to be when we started out, for sure. That's, I think, yeah. And at that time, I didn't know that branding is, is becoming something so important and huge for me, and actually working in that specific area. And that was the time and I thought, Okay, now I'm 24 years old, and what do I do with the rest of my life? You know, and then then, with 36, abouts was this time where we were actually our contract ended. And I needed to think, what do I do next. And I also was not intellectually challenged that much anymore. So I decided to study and I started international marketing and management, and also business education. So I also became a certified teacher with doing so. Yeah. And then yeah, I also did my PhD in international marketing and management after some time being in the Thredbo. The financial crisis peaked in 2007. Then I went, went back to continue teaching at the university, what I did as a sideline, before and then started doing, basically as a full time thing, and I taught until 2022, full time. And in 2022. In February, my contract ended that I had a temporary contract. And I knew after that I want to start my own business. So here I am, having started my own business, going through COVID, and through this turbulent times, and finding my way and having to pivot. And yeah, it was a really interesting time for I guess, so many other companies, whether they are a small, whether they are big, we all learned, and if we have seen the pandemic more as a opportunity to grow, then there's always a silver lining, right? And those companies that could mostly take advantage of that, and redefine themselves and rejuvenate their brand. And there are others, they're more or less left behind because they thought okay, let's wait and see what's gonna happen. Yeah, that might have not been such a good idea because they were left behind. Yeah. You know, I interviewed our mutual friend, Katherine Busman, about 18 months ago. And at that time, she gave really many tips for companies who were starting out in the international brand building journey. So for anybody who's not seen that interview, you can find your channel or you can read the summary posted on the blog. So today, I would like to go a little bit deeper and to talk about how global branding has changed in the past, let's say three years. How is it now post pandemic and whether or what is the CES for personal brands on the International Corporate stage? See Change, change in the way that companies are globalising their brands, especially, like I said, since the start of the pandemic. Yeah, I mean, this pandemic really has made a huge impact on companies, companies really became vulnerable on a completely different level, something happened that was not even, you know, expected to be possible. So it really there was really a standstill, and we didn't know how to go forward. So the pandemic has changed brands and Tao brands are moving forward. And they are the so called new truths in marketing and branding out there. And the first thing I would like to talk about is, as we all know that marketing really begins with you, knowing your customer. And I mean, really knowing your customer, inside out and outside in, we really need to understand what customers true wants and desires are, and what is relevant for them. And that I think that was what has changed is in very local and precise terms. You know, in earlier days, it was all about globalisation standardised as much as possible, you know, and having a global appearance, this global look. And there was this focus on local touch on his localization. But during the pandemic, it was really more so critical to look at, at, let's say, at strategies that are so specific to adjust communication strategies, like from SIP code to sip code or from store to store. People started to purchase from local stores, fresh, locally grown produce, and people's want to more support local stores because they're different motives behind you know, it's about leaving a green footprint. It's supporting a local retailers, farmers. And that is a trend. That is, yeah, it's going to stay. Yeah, it's going to stay through all the after the pandemic, people started getting comfortable with being more local. And at the same time, there is also this trend of shopping more online. There's a lot of people like in Austria, we know that they're very hesitant when it comes to shopping grocery online. And but there was no other way sometimes to just go online. I mean, this shift is not so huge in other countries, like in China or South Korea, but purchasing online is just a state of the art. It's just it has become very common. I know students that were here on an exchange semester from Korea because I taught on an international level. So in my in my classes I had about, let's say 14 different nationalities and my Korean students, even a bottle of water was purchased on the way back home online on the go, you know, so when they arrive at home, the bottle of water or the bottle of Nick or whatever it is, is already sitting in front of the door. So you wouldn't you wouldn't get that in Austria because you would be looking biller would say to you, you can have a delivery slot in six weeks time. Exactly. And a lot of companies I know for example, L'Oreal did that they flew out to South Korea and checked Yeah, they did their market research. Yeah, well, how do they live? What's their behaviour, but what are their desires? What do they want at the end of the day? And it's really about how I feel like with the brain, so if biller says it's coming in five days, how do I feel if I need my milk now and I have no other way? I need to find alternatives and I will find alternatives of course, but if then another supermarket like spa says, I can do that within the next 24 hours and it's guaranteed that we will deliver Of course then Spa has has a different leaves a different perception, you know, so I will go for spa Of course. Yeah, so that has changed. You also are more open to purchase online. And also, as a result of COVID. All this re online read to the platforms such as Amazon and Alibaba and you name them. They experienced double digit revenue growth from just people doing that. And there's an interesting study from study star. It shows that the generation millennials, those the Generation Y born in 1981 To 1996, so between 26 and 41 years old, are purchasing most online, followed by the Gen z's, they're younger. And it's also interesting that more than 20% of the baby boomers, so like 58, or 60, plus are also purchasing online. But they are also the ones that like to go into the store most. So we have to also differentiate here between generations. And that is, has slight differences across different country markets, depending on first of all the living standards. So you have a lot of factors that that have to Yes. to that. Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of let's say, if you if I look at the the way that ecommerce is integrated into life, in some way, like China, it's also because it has to be because when you see how China locks down, when China when there's a COVID, you know, you can't you can't go outside the door of your apartment except for a COVID test. So that's different to the situation we had in Europe, where you could always go out to go physically to the supermarket if you wanted to. So there's a completely different level of necessity into do I have to buy online? Or do I? Am I just restricted to my local district? Or do I, you know, or can I travel a little bit further? I mean, this is also driving this lead, isn't it that that brands have to really think about where, where are people truly able to buy now, it's not just where do they want to buy? It's also where are they able to buy? Exactly, and we still have the consequences. And when you just think about Shanghai right now, there is still this huge bottleneck, the shipping volume has dipped since January, again to this new lockdown measures in Beijing, they're afraid to have another lock down, because I think they have 51 cases we have in Austria. And then when you also you want to a friend of mine who wants to purchase any car, you know, electric car waiting time, two years. So because there's so many components, you know, sourcing different country markets, and because of COVID. And because of also the Ukrainian bar, all these components cannot be delivered, they go into a finished product, you know, so we have to live with that consequences, I think for a longer period of time. Do you think that that companies have already started to build this into their corporate into their corporate branding policies? Or is it something that they're observing more on a, let's say, on a sales level, rather than actually driving it consciously with the actual branding at the moment, I think at the moment, it's more about integrating into their sales practices, too. I think it's not about brand building, per se. It's more about okay, telling the customer we can deliver in eight weeks, we make sure something like to soften, falling back on the reality front, you know that on a purchase. Now, a MacBook or an iMac, or any other electronic device or a car, just that the communication strategy is tailored around that, okay, we have to deal with these problems. But in a very, let's say, rather charming way. But but because what can you do, there is nothing much that you can do. And I think companies are starting now to tailor that into their whole branding strategy from the beginning from, let's say, creating awareness in the market and what we stand for, and this local sourcing and trying not to depend much on specific country markets where they have to, actually facilities. So I think it's coming now. Yeah, I think also that, that companies are actually starting to hopefully adjust and improve their customer service responses as part of the, let's say, as part of their corporate branding, because there's only a certain amount of time that you can say, I have no you can't get me on the phone because all of our staff are in home office. You know, please send us an email and we will answer it if we feel like it in about two months time. Yeah, I mean, companies have worked around that already so that there is this remote or this hybrid forms of working There are some days you are in the office and the other times you are working from home basically. Yeah. Yeah. But this is already in the in the making. And yeah, so the customer is really true. And it's really about knowing your customer. And also, and that's what I've what I've started out with is giving them the perfect experience a customer churn is key. Because it's, it's, you know, it's also key when it comes to competition. And the new form of competition is not only with your competitors, the competition for companies is nowadays, to compete with the last best experience your customer had before, with either you or with another company, it's really the way of how they feel about you, when they consume your products and services that you have to be continuously levelling up. You mean absolutely. You have to provide them a customised, personalised, unparalleled experience through the whole customer journey that is smooth and seamless digital journey. It's not only about the transaction, it's really about how you also integrate them. It's about entertainment, it's about having them participate, it's about co creation, it's about the community aspect, that you as a brand want to offer your customer. And so in the end, if what I'm understanding is correct, they're having to focus much more intensively on really what the customer wants, not just something that they perceive that the customer wants, and that they identified five years ago, and they still keep doing the same thing. But now they have to really keep going back to that assumption, what is it that constitutes an ideal experience for our customers? And how can we create that, recreate that and improve on that? Exactly, because we get all the data. So every working with data, you have performance measurements, and you always try to level up to improve your performance, improve your relationships with your customer. So it's all about relationships that matter. It's really about driving and fostering these loyal relationships with your customers. But I think not only with customers, it's also with all the other stakeholders, your suppliers with everyone in the value chain to really make sure that the processes in the background are also smooth. So you can deliver the service at the end of the day. And the customer is not provided with empty shelves the customer is not provided with you have to wait for another two months to get this. So that delivered you know that you really start at the beginning until the end, and the customer journey is kind of within it and to provide the solution that the customer wants to have at the end of the day. That is that is of utmost importance when it comes to customers insight. And this is all and then really breaking it all down to the local levels. Because as we know that cultures are different that people from different country markets have different ways of doing things and different expectations based on their prevailing environmental factors. So you have to here also make sure that you localise to that extent that you can do this customer's expectations. Yeah. And I think that this has become as people have been, in some extent, during the last three years they've been shut in in their own borders. And so they've been somehow much more in their own minds, even if they could, let's say travel virtually. As far as marketing is concerned, I feel like marketing became much more let's say I beat Philly became much more localised and it was pre pandemic because people were not travelling so there was not not this need for these internationally recognisable, huge campaigns on billboards in Times Square because who was able to go to Times Square? I mean, you know, yeah, yeah, no, it's more so that it's, it's, it's a global look, because you want to be recognised as Coca Cola, you want to be recognised as Apple, you want to be recognised that that brand, but you have this local touch, you connect on a visceral level also, it's not only the local touch, but it's really of getting the customer from the inside getting an understanding what they really want, and that is meant to be I local touch is also the stories that we tell me we tell stories, for example with endorsers, or with influencers who are from that local market, because they can much better connect with that specific stories, because it's one of them, they can much better relate to that story than if we tell a story here in Austria, from someone in the United States, who is the hero there, but it hasn't come over yet. You know, it's who is that? you resonate with someone who is within our society, within our habitat within our surroundings? What we used to like every day, you know, yeah, and I think that I mean, we spoke also a little bit before we started the livestream about this becoming more personal and about how, at the moment, if you look at marketing trends, there's a lot of discussion about personal branding. And I think that for many big companies who are working internationally, they find it very hard, how they should, how to integrate this kind of idea of personal branding into their global strategy. Because also influences are a kind of using personal somebody who has a very strong personal brand to integrate with mine. But of course it brings, let's say, it's, it's a two way street. And it also brings risks, it brings opportunities, of course, but it's not an easy road to navigate. I think it's especially on an international level, it's not so simple. Yeah, yeah. So I mean, personal branding is a huge thing. And you can look at it from different perspectives. And there is this space for personal branding into international corporate stage. Shan. So I really believe so personal branding is not only important as a business owner, but as we just said, also, within the context of corporations and across organisation, as a personal brand, you position yourself within an organisation as an expert about something because you take the role, you have a position that in there, but also as an expert in your role, and that equips you with authority, it makes you the go to person or the expertise that you have for everyone within the company, and but also beyond. And the thing is that the people become so important because you're doing business, not with a brand with a logo with any other item, brand element, a slogan or something like that. You do it with human beings. And a strong personal brand helps leverage your network in that sense, it helps to build brand partnerships with other corporations more easily. So when you think about Sertoma Ciana, he started the Fiat Chrysler Alliance. And then Carlos Goshen, the CEO who started when he has Yeah, I know. The famous Lebanese guy. Yeah, yeah. But it was an alliance that lasted more than 11 years. Yeah, when it comes to the Renault Nissan partnership. So strong brands like to collaborate with other strong brands, but there's always the people behind it to start that. And in order to do so you have to have this cultural value and competence fit as a CEO that understands that these organisations only can work together if they have that. And the interesting thing that also comes along with being a CEO that consumers now are also expecting personal branding from the companies and in fact 82% of the people surveyed in a survey said they are more likely to trust the company then its senior executives are active on social media and 77% it's also interesting of consumers are more likely to buy when their CEOs of the businesses uses social media. So they are really watch their follow up and consumers want input from the company leaders. So if businesses are ignoring that they might also go out of business if they are ignoring that over a long period of time. And to think about this this personal brands such a scary we we know Gary V he He's all over the place, but we don't know really the name about his company in the background. Yeah. What about oh, Oprah Winfrey, she is a personal brand. Do we know much about her company, Harpo Productions or OWN? Oprah Winfrey Network we know about Oprah Winfrey. We know we know about this personal brands a lot. So we follow them and not the company. And then to think about Jeff Bezos, okay, we know Amazon. It's a brand that has become a household brand, but also the person who founded that, who owns that company is Jeff Bezos, or think about Elon Musk. He's all over the place now with Twitter. And he basically made Tatler to one of the rising brands last year, it was in the Interbrand ranking one of the thriving brands. And then also Steve Jobs, we associate we know Apple, right. And then also know about Nicki Lauda. Because everybody in Austria knows about Niki Lauda. An inspiring brand and who do not know him watch the movie on Netflix, it's called Rush. So it's also an interesting person, how he built his personal brand. And he left a legacy. And they all are leaving a legacy behind. These are the personal brands. And so we have the personal branding on the CEO level on the company owner level. But then there's also the personal branding that gets you in front of many more customers. It's the effort in investing in your own employees through employee branding. So personal branding is basically employee branding within an organisation. So when employees share a brand message, that's also interesting, the posts that they post, have a 561% more reach than when just a brand post a message. Yes. Yes. No, it's really what the employer is talking about the brand. They are the brands advocates. Yeah, it's wherever you go, whatever you do, you are representing your company. So I remember when I when I was still flying for Lauda air, and we were somewhere in Jamaica, or somewhere in in the bush of Australia. So what are you doing, I'm flying for love it, oh, my God, oh, my God, you're flying for the sky. And when they know about you that you're working for that company, you are leaving an impression. So they see it, what perception they have about that brand in general, with being you in the picture as well. It's the way how you behave, it's the way what you do, you know, and you're representing that brand. Definitely. And so your recommendation for small to medium companies, if they've already taken some steps about expanding internationally, and they've, let's say maybe they've done some localization of their assets, they should be then starting to build this kind of awareness. And that, at least on a small level, all of their employees who are contacting with the international markets should be talking about their experiences of working for the company. And the CEO should of course, be talking the company line, I guess, yeah. And it's really about the culture that you create. And it's also one thing that now, people want from brands is taking a stance and showing what they value their brand values, and the brand values they live by. So, all the brand values that the company is communicating has to be supported by all the employees, and you only can do that well, when you are living authentically as a person, also living that brands that that values you know, that you personal brand, you are helping the company becoming much stronger because you are aligned, you are going for the same vision, you are living and breathing the same purpose, the higher purpose that you as a company is striving for. And that makes a brain strong. And that makes a brain strong, awesome when you're expanding internationally. And they're obvious universal values that you you should live and integrate and need to be also lived and put into action in the other country market in a way that that you really appeal to the customer. You know what? Yeah, it's interesting because the the blog post that I published this morning, I was talking about food and beverage trends in Vietnam. Now post pandemic. And one of the big points that I included in this is the fact that prior to the pandemic, of course, there was always a certain number of people who were interested in brand origin stories and brand values and so on. But if people are struggling, if people, a lot of people, they were more concerned with things like food safety, or they were, you know, they were not so interested in hearing those higher value stories about branding. Now, post pandemic, people because they want to hear, they're interested in food security. So suddenly, topics like how environmentally friendly are the products that I'm consuming, because they've realised that this can have an impact on health. So this has suddenly become important. And things brand stories, brand values have also become much more of a if I say, not a commodity, but they've also become a much more valuable asset than they perhaps were before the pandemic, because before the pandemic, the consumer would have looked much more at the, okay, it's important, it has a high price, whereas now they're interested to know, okay, if there's a brand behind it, who has a certain level of prestige, then this is a kind of guarantee for the quality because they've achieved certain things. And so this brand story, and these origin stories are also something that have become much more into the foreground than they were in the past. Yeah, it's the authenticity also that brands create when they show what values they are living by, and also that the brands should really take a stance on certain issues. Globally, when it comes to protecting the planet when it comes to social movement when it comes to diversity, equity, inclusion, all that matters right now. And since you have talked about the Vietnam block that you're writing, right now, there is an interesting study by Ernst Young, and it was a study conducted in 20 Different countries during the pandemic. And they have identified five different cohorts of consumers. And that could be a really good guideline for companies what to look at, or what kind of factors to take into consideration. For example, there are consumers that want affordability first, it's really living with their means and the budget. It's really the focus on product puncture, inability that a brand can offer. And then Health First, as you said, it's protecting their health and that of their families. So it's really about choosing products and brands that they trust to be safe minimising this, this risk factor of getting sick and then planet first, it's all about minimising our impact that we have on the adverse impact we have on the environment. And then society first is working together for this greater good. And also purchasing from organisations, they find that are honest, trustworthy and transparent. And then, but not least, we also have talked about before, is the experience, the brands that can create for the customers the experience to live in this moment. And that makes them such great memories, yeah, unparalleled extra ordinary moments that a certain brand can create in customers lives. Exactly. So these these are some of the ones that consumers are having right now that companies can, can try to satisfy. And so I guess that the kind of the opposite side of that would be that companies need to avoid a situation where they don't have any clear brand values to communicate that they need to avoid a situation where they basically are a grey kind of product that nobody they need to be more clearly defined than in the past, and they need to stand up for what they believe in. I think that is the quintessence of of, of the discussion. Yeah. So know your vision, you know, your mission, your higher purpose, the Northstar, that's what you really want to what kind of impact you want to make for the people that you serve, right. And then also the values that you live by, they have to be strong, they have to be compelling. Yeah, they have to be clearly complicated, but not only for the customer, but also for the employees and other stakeholders that so that everyone knows when we talk about a certain brand And then brand stands for this and that. Yeah, I think that this has become even more important than it was always important for brands to have values. But they it wasn't always as important that they communicated them to a broad public. And now I think that if you don't do that, then you've you've let's say you've lost in some way. And you don't want it's it really doesn't matter whether you are a big corporation with 10,000 and more employees. Yeah, like Cisco and other big companies. But it's also it's true also for small medium enterprises, for micro companies, for entrepreneurs, solopreneurs anyone, it's about how you can solve customers problems. It's really creating a relationship personalised and humanise your brand. That's critical. That's what Yeah, no, I agree that from what I'm seeing, too, that it's got to be this is this is the way that the most important part of personal branding that that companies should no longer be a kind of faceless organisation that just has this kind of slick advertising slogans, they should be something that that people can actually relate to more closely, and has been recognised that they actually have humans behind them, like Stella says, People want to know about the humans behind the brands, and of course, people buy from people. And it's an emotional process to buy something, especially when it gets more expensive. Exactly, yeah. Maybe I can just go back through just a couple of questions, because I'm not sure Mariona asked about whether we've seen a spike in translation and localization demand in any specific part of the world or industry. I mean, I don't have any latest data. But definitely, it's really when you want to communicate values and your vision, you have to translate because it's about the meaning that you want to communicate. And it's not really like a translation from avert, to avert, it's really to communicate the meaning that this whole tagline or your vision or your mission statement has your value proposition. So I think it's really that the company says we have to go more local, and adapt to local market needs, and have local teams working in that market, especially when they are really very, very different from your home market. You have to translate? Absolutely. I mean, I think that I haven't actually specifically seen it, but that could just be because of the projects that I'm working with. But I do believe that the tolerance of consumers for something which is either not in their own language, like in the past a lot of things they were provided for the international audience only in English, rather than in the national language of any country, I think the tolerance for that has reduced. And I think also that people's expectations of when a translation is provided, it should be a good translation. And I think that you know, even for languages that maybe in the past would be regarded as, let's say, more minor languages, that I think that the tolerance for, for that has become lower over the course of the pandemic people's expectations have risen. I think also what plays into that is not only in China, but also in other countries. Since there are more local brands now, they are also admiring and going for and purchasing and valuing you're competing with many more local brands than before. So, they have their new local standards. And now you also have to take into consideration when we talk about the industry and the industry has changed has evolved with more local players competing for the same experiences that you have to keep up with that as well. So, it does mean that an international brand or a global Western brand entering an emerging market or a less developed market is so outstanding and you know has to be so you have to sacrifice everything else to just purchased a product from that specific brand. It has changed has a lot of local brands that are are creating tremendous value and can satisfy local customers needs as well. So take that into consideration. That's why I think translation is also important to, to really bring across the meaning of your brand and what you stand for. Yeah, I think so. Well project, you know, we've been talking for really a little bit longer than we thought we would. But I just have one last question, which is kind of my standard last question. And that is, knowing what you do now, what would be the advice that you would give to your younger self setting out on your global branding that journey? Oh, my God, this is a really tricky question. So what would I tell Bridget or little Bridget it has nothing much to do so much to do with global because I was global from the beginning. But what I did with it, so first of all working on her imposture and not to listen too much to other people, what they expect from me and want from me, and how I have to design and lead my life, instead of going for my own visions and convictions. That's the first thing, then not to fall into the perfectionism trap, which makes you totally brilliant in inaction, you know, so, you know, it's to be, just do it, you don't need to be 100% Perfect. And also to invest time, and learn something very, very important much early in my life. And that is to shift from an academic respectively, educator mindset into business owner mindset. So I'm still you know, stuck in the more academic educator mindset, instead of being that business owner. Friends, you know, and also overcoming more the fear of the selling and putting myself out there. So, I have improved, I know that but there's still room for improvement. And that networking is key. So I've cultivated so many connections worldwide. And I should have even more intensively cultivated that just to you know, because we are living in this global world, and you can reach out in an instant via zoom to everyone or to message. And also when I travelled, I did do a lot of market research for for teaching my classes. And I could already have at that point in time started with a blog or something. But yeah, stalking in this educators mindset did not let me think about, okay, what's going to come up in the future as a business owner? It might have been advantageous for me. But I would like to say one more thing. I mean, it really, I want to say that we are always right there where we are right now. And we are not behind of something. And things happen in the way they are they have happened. And this is our journey. And all that if I had and if I had known doesn't really help. But looking at that, and getting this question asked, really, is good, because you reflect on it. And then the question is, what you're doing with it. And the thing is that you can then integrate it this detours or whatever learnings that were or you think I should have known in your journey going forward? So I think that's a good thing at the end of the day. Yeah, no, I agree. So the core learning is just go for it. Just do it. And and you have to also learn to live in the moment and live your own life and not what somebody else is expecting for you. I think that's a great point to to finish on for today. Bridget, thank you so much for your time today. It's been a real pleasure talking to you. Thank you for having me. It was a delightful conversation. Thank you.