The Entrepreneurial CIO w/ Harsha Bellur

Lisa Nichols interviews Harsha Bellur, CIO of James Avery Jewelry, revealing the secrets to his success in tech and leadership. Harsha shares how growing up in India and working in his father's iron and steel business from a young age shaped his entrepreneurial mindset and approach to customer relationships. This episode is a masterclass in turning timeless business principles into a thriving career!

Guest Links:

• Harsha’s LinkedIn
• James Avery Jewelry

Credits: 
Host: Lisa Nichols
Executive Producer: Jenny Heal
Marketing Support: Landon Burke and Joe Szynkowski
Podcast Engineer: Portside Media

Transcript

Lisa Nichols  00:02
Chromosomes, little strands of nucleic acids and proteins are the fundamental genetic instructions that tell us who we are. At birth, most people are born with 46 chromosomes, but each year in the United States, about 6000 people are born with an extra chromosome, making them a person with Down syndrome. If you've ever encountered someone with Down syndrome, you know that they are some of the kindest, most joyful people you will ever meet. They truly have something extra. 

My name is Lisa Nichols, and for 30 years, I have been both the CEO of Technology Partners and the mother to Ally. Ally has something extra in every sense of the word. I have been blessed to be by her side as she impacts everyone she meets. Through these two important roles as CEO and mother to Ally, I have witnessed countless life lessons that have fundamentally changed the way I look at the world. While you may not have an extra chromosome, every leader has something extra that defines who you are. 

Join me as I explore the something extra in leaders from all walks of life and discover how that difference in each of them has made a difference in their companies, their families, their communities and in themselves. If you like this episode today, please go to Apple Podcast or wherever you listen and leave us a five-star rating. 

I'm excited to have Harsha Bellur on the show today. Harsha is the Chief Information Officer at James Avery Jewelry. Well, I have been looking so forward to this conversation. Welcome to the Something Extra Podcast. 

Harsha Bellur  01:34
Well, thank you, Lisa. I'm delighted to be here, and it's such an inspirational story and journey you have enabled through this podcast. You know, just inspiring from your daughters, and you continue that tradition. So, I'm super delighted to be here and happy to chat, be chatting with your audience.

Lisa Nichols  01:53
I just know that our listeners, are just going to benefit so greatly from all of your wisdom. Listen, we can't do this podcast without giving a huge shout out to our mutual friend that both of us love dearly, Cindy Kay Olson. She is the one that connected us, and you and I both describe her in the same way. What did you say about her Harsha?

Harsha Bellur  02:21
Oh my gosh. I wish I could get 10% of the energy that she brings to any conversation. Go Cindy. 

Lisa Nichols  02:30
Yes, go Cindy. So, thank you, Cindy. We both appreciate you so much. But there's so much I want to dig into Harsha, but I can't dig into what you're doing today without going back to what you did when you were little. So, we've done so much in technology, but I'd love to talk about growing up. I know you grew up in India, and I would love for you to tell our listeners a little bit about your dad.

Harsha Bellur  02:59
Oh, boy. No, thank you for that. You know it my dad's my hero, and he's always been the model and that I aspire to be and, and just have learned a lot from what he has done. He was a self-made man, and so he was an entrepreneur. He started his business when I was two years old. So, you could tell either I grew up with the business or, you know, the business grew as I grew. Both statements are true. And you know, he was the eldest of 10 siblings and, and so, he decided to his, his father, my grandfather was also a businessman, so he decided to step out of that business and start his own business. Being the eldest of 10 siblings, you know that he also took on a lot of responsibilities to kind of really look out for his siblings as well, but just kind of coming back to, you know, the context of me and my story with him. It's, you know, starting a business and starting an entrepreneurial journey is not all, you know, it's not a rosy road. So, there was a lot of challenges, as one would expect when he started his business. And from my perspective, you know, I'm the eldest son too. So, the traditional kind of pathways that you inherit your parent’s business, and so. He was already an outlier to that tradition, because he stepped out of his dad's business and, and so that, though the expectation was I would one day head that business. I stepped out of that business. So, that's kind of the later stage of the story. 

Harsha Bellur  04:57
But just going back to those early days, you know. So, as an entrepreneur, as somebody who just started, it's an iron and steel business that he started. It's a manufacturing facility. A lot of, you know, learnings that I observed, you know, because I would not, not when I was two or three, but maybe when I was six or seven. I started to actually go to the factory, and certainly during the summer time, and my job was really sitting in the office and man the phone, right? So, my job was pick the, pick up the phone. You know, take notes on who called, why they called, and then report that back to my dad, because we had no, he had no office staff or whatever. So, I was kind of really doing their job. But through that early exposure to, you know, business acumen and language and, you know, customers calling, and then he, you know, asking me to ask the questions like, why are they calling? So, it just kind of really started to develop that entrepreneurial mindset from a very young age for me. And so, as the years passed, I got more and more involved. And, you know, I, I got exposed to how hard it is to find a new customer, you know, dealing with employee issues, accidents in the factory, payment problems, you know. So just, just things that a typical startup and entrepreneur would experience. 

Harsha Bellur  06:28
But having seen that and being through that without necessarily having to deal with that, so to speak, really shaped my thought process. Really shaped how I approach, you know, my own work today. And so, the trajectory and the journey was always about, you know, me eventually going into the factory. And so, my dad was so I, when I finished high school, you know, he was adamant that I at least get a degree. And said, Hey, this you always want to get a degree. And that's partly cultural, because there's a lot of emphasis on, you know. And then it's also partly like, there's no need to rush like this is here, you know, just get some basic education. And, you know, just give you a good foundation. So, I did my undergrad in telecommunications. And during that time, this was probably in the mid-80s, he actually, so by then, you know, the factory had started to get some traction. He had a lot of customers, so he introduced computers in the in the factory. 

Harsha Bellur  07:51
And so, suddenly, you know, I was more excited to go to the factory because I was fascinated by this thing. And, you know, in the course of my time, I was, I don't I don't know if people can relate to this, but before the computers came into play, it was all books and registers in how accounting and financials were done. So, there was a vendor ledger and payment ledger and this and that. So, there was a point in time, I recall, when he said, I want to do a, you know, an outstanding payment report, or get a list of outstanding payments. And I'm like, Okay, how do I do that? He's like, here's the vendor ledger. Go look at all the vendors, and here's the cash register. Go look at all the receipts, and then see if there's any vendor that has not have a receipt. And I'm like, what? So, anyway, so when computers came in, you know, all of this started to get automated. And while we had I had access to computers, I also started dabbling with it, you know, doing my own thing. And it was so fascinating for me. So, in addition to kind of, really getting early exposure to business and entrepreneurship. I also got exposure to computers, and you can start to see how that shapes up.

Lisa Nichols  09:10
It may have changed trajectory of your life. 

Harsha Bellur  09:12
Exactly.

Lisa Nichols  09:13
It completely changed, because we'll talk about this. But you've been a serial CIO, and so I love it, you know. And I'm thinking too, Harsha, you know, when you're six and seven, you're getting an MBA, six and seven years old.

Harsha Bellur  09:31
Exactly, and that's the that's the interesting thing. And then, you know, 40 years later, when I reflect on it, the specific challenges of running an operations and a business and 40 years ago, and how you do that successfully to what it is today has not really changed a whole lot. And that's to me, you know, having that experience such early on, and being able to apply that throughout my career has just not only reinforced my learning, but also made me such a huge believer in some of those principles. In how you truly operate and, you know, take care of your people and take care of your customers, listen to your customers, you know, establish an adhere to some real core values. I mean, those things just are true and timeless.

Lisa Nichols  10:26
That's a great way. That it's a great way to describe it; timeless. That's the perfect segue, because your dad read something that you wrote and you said that your dad told you know your customer and build relationships. You know those principles, and those are basic principles, right, Harsha? But you said that you believe that's part of the secret to your success in your career.

Harsha Bellur  10:53
Exactly. And you know what's, what's interesting is that, so after I did my graduation undergrad, I they pursued my master's because now I got fascinated with computers. I pursued a master's in computer science, and part of the curriculum is a capstone project in the last semester. So, that was a time when I actually had to go work in a actual technology company and do some real tech projects, though, though I already had a lot of experience. So, kind of applying that principle, right, knowing your customers. While I was in, and this was in Wipro Technologies, which is one of the largest tech behemoth services company, and I'm talking now mid-90s. So, when, when I was doing my capstone project, you know, I wasn't focusing necessarily on the technology itself. Because I was still, I was so kind of wired into thinking along this, know your customer and, you know, build relationship, that I this was a, they were working on a large ERP project that that was a global implementation. So, when I was part of the project, you know, I'm just a young college grad trying to do a six-month project, and, you know, really more focused on getting my checkbox on my academic goal, as opposed to, as opposed to supporting the company. 

Harsha Bellur  12:22
But yet, I, when I was there, I spoke to the specific customers that were recipient of this project and understood kind of their anxiety and their feelings about this project. I really developed the rapport with them, and then, so in my report, the final report, I presented that as one of the risks, and nobody in the company had really thought about it. And you know, I got my project done, I came back. I, you know, I was going to go back to my dad's business. And two or three months later, the VP of the company called me and said, We read your report, and you know, we would love for you to come and join us and run this project. So, in my first job, they offered me to run an implementation I think I had about six direct reports and my dad was like, Hey, that's what you want to do that's exciting, go do it. And so, that was my first step. 

Lisa Nichols  13:24
That's incredible, you're probably 21 or 22 years old and managing people. That's incredible.

Harsha Bellur  13:32
So, that was, that was, it seems very abnormal to kind of speak to that, but then you would also wonder whether I was ready. But then I it just seemed like it was a very natural fit for me. I understood how to work with people, I understood how to manage change. I understood how to deal with problems. While I had not had any kind of direct experience. I grew up knowing and learning about it. 

Lisa Nichols  14:05
I was gonna say, you've been doing business since you were six. Oh, my goodness, that is so amazing. Well, I know that you spent a few years at Wipro, and then you came to the US, and you spent 12 years at Bowlero, right? And the last six of that as the CIO, what were some of your key accomplishments there, Harsha?

Harsha Bellur  14:27
No, it's interesting, because, you know, the two years after I came to United States, I did went through a lot of different companies. I was not just getting that, you know, satisfaction, because every job I went to it was so narrowly defined. I was a programmer. I was a DBA. I was a project manager. I'm like, No, I can offer a lot more than that. I've already done that. And so, when I got to Bowlero, that was kind of really where it's interesting, because I was there consulting with them on a Y2K assessment. And one day, I was trying to pick up something at the printer, and I saw this job description that says global CRM implementation. And there was, you know, I think a project lead or some role. And I was like, oh, CRM customer relationship. I'm like, okay, that speaks to me. And so I went to my boss, and I said, Hey, I don't know who is posting this job, but, you know, I would be very interested. And my boss says, Yeah, that's exactly we are looking to implement a global CRM. And Bowlero was a global company. They had operations in 17 countries at that time. And so, he said, If you want this job, it's yours to take. And I'm like, Okay, I got it. 

Harsha Bellur  15:47
So, that was, this was, like late 90s, and so, I got to implement, or lead, a project of global CRM implementation. And again, applying the same principle of build relationship, know your customers. So, the CRM we were doing was for the sales teams. And the sales teams are almost always on the road, and we are talking about a bowling company. And bowling alleys are all over, you know, little towns and, and I'm like, Okay, we're doing a solution for them. Yet, the only way they can get to this is when they're at their desk, and then they're mostly not at their desk. So, this thought process of really looking at things from a customer point of view got me to innovate and be creative when I actually developed the first mobile application that it was Palm Pilot. I don't know if you remember Palm Pilot? 

Lisa Nichols  16:43
Yes, I do. 

Harsha Bellur  16:45
So, there was because there was no iPhones in late 90s. So, I built an application where they could sync up all the customer data on their Palm and then have that handy when they go visit their customers. So, that innovation and that creativity was primarily because of the learnings and the principles that I applied. And obviously that got a lot of attention and press. And it was, I think, we won an award as the best CRM implementation in the year 2000, global implementation. So, obviously that got me, you know, on the forefront.

Lisa Nichols  17:22
Notoriety there.

Harsha Bellur  17:25
And from then on, I had a very accelerate path, because people started to, you know, kind of noticed the my potential and the value that I bring in. So, I quickly moved into a director of PMO, heading all the projects, into, you know, director of technology itself, and then ultimately the CIO. So, in a six-year window, I went from leading a global implementation to becoming the CIO of the company. And, and I was 32 Lisa, when I first got the CIO job. So, it's been an amazing journey. And I think, you know, kind of, really the underlying principle that I've been operating remains the same.


Lisa Nichols  18:11
There is so much goodness packed into what you just told me. First of all, the first thing I think about, Harsha, is I'm so glad that you saw that posting, and then you went and said, hey, I'm interested in that, right? People can't read your mind. We need to raise our hand and go, That is something I think I might like to do. So, there's the first learning I just and then the emphasis on, I've got a good friend, another CIO friend, she actually just took another job in Georgia. But Bhavani Amirthalingam is her name, and I'll never forget talking to her. She said, you know, Lisa never worried about building my resume. She said, every place I've been, I just look and go, What can I do to bring value? And she said, if you will have that mindset, your resume will build itself. And you putting yourself in the place of the sales people you know that are on the road. They don't have access, they're going to have to, you know, print off sheets about their customer interaction and things like this. I mean, now it's just that creativity comes, I think, when you have that mindset of putting yourself in the place of the customer.

Harsha Bellur  19:35
Correct. And, you know, it's, it's a while I have been thinking about or applying that principle from a customer perspective, as I've evolved as a leader myself. I think that that concept of empathy, right, empathizing really, now comes to even your teams, the people that you work with, and so it transcends, you know what I developed as something that I was applying with our customers as I evolved in my leadership journey. I'm like, Okay, that's a universal principle that I think applies to more or less everything. And that's part of, you know, what I see as a key ingredient in kind of, really developing teams, and, you know, retaining those teams and for a long time as well.

Lisa Nichols  20:26
No doubt, no doubt. Well, I was going to ask you to explain your leadership style, but you're probably, you know, you're probably a servant leader, empathic leader. You know, is there anything else that you'd want to say, I mean, obviously an innovative, visionary. Anything else you'd want to say about that? 

Harsha Bellur  20:47
I think those are big superlatives, but, but, you know, one of my personal take on leadership is that, obviously there's a natural style that, you know, we all probably are comfortable with, or most comfortable with. And I would say that servitude and servant leadership is the way that I think is natural to me. But over the course of time, I've learned that, you know, leadership is like you need a big toolbox, and you need, you know, different types of tools in different situations. And sometimes I have to be that assertive leader, and sometimes have to be, you know, kind of the negotiator. Sometimes have to just be the, you know, the servant leader. So, while there's a natural trait that I think I'm most comfortable with, you know, one size does not fit all. And fortunately, in the environments that we work with, and you know, people have different motivations. They have different and, you know, backgrounds and circumstances, so really helping to. You know, understanding those personal traits, and then applying the right technique of leadership to help them, help elevate them to where they need to be, is really what I've come to learn. And so, you know, when you read a lot of leadership books and you go through a lot of leadership training, there's a lot of new terms and principles that are that you hear and learn, but you know, bottom line, it's all about, you know, taking care of your people, making sure you, you listen to them, making sure you understand their motivations and aspirations. And, you know, help everybody grow and be heard.

Lisa Nichols  22:44
That is so good. Okay, I'll add a couple more superlatives in there, because I'm thinking you got to be agile.

Harsha Bellur  22:51
Oh yeah.

Lisa Nichols  22:53
And to adapt, adaptable, you know, to other, you know, situations. And then the other one that I would put in there, Harsha, is discernment to know when to use these different tools correct, you know? 

Harsha Bellur  23:08
Well, actually, it's interesting that you, you brought up discernment, because in the technology space that I operate in as a CIO, that probably is one of the most you know, underappreciated traits. Because certainly of late, you know, there's always so much hype that comes out in the technology space. And you know, sometimes it's very difficult to understand what's real, and you know what. So, the ability to discern that and be able to articulate that to my peers in the business or and do that with a degree of confidence without, you know, being a fool, making a fool of myself. That is, as I said, is a very underappreciated trait, because it's so difficult to get caught up in the hype and then you really, you know, don't know how to apply that hype that we're talking about, or you don't know how to make sense of it. But yet you're like, you know you don't want to be to, you know, you're dealing with the fear of missing out.

Lisa Nichols  24:16
You don't want to be left in the dust either.

Harsha Bellur  24:19
Exactly. You don't want to be the, you know, feel the FOMO, as they say, the fear of missing out. So, the ability to discern, I think, is a very underappreciated trait. And I thank you for bringing that up. Definitely a good point. 

Lisa Nichols  24:33
That's good. All right, I'm going to talk to you about one more thing, and then I want to get into what you're doing today, because, you know, I'm excited about what you're doing today. You know, I know that mentorship is important to you. I read something that you wrote that you were mentored by a CHRO that really helped you mature as a leader. How do you think about mentorship? How do you get your people? Do you have you implemented any kind of formal mentoring at, you know, the place, and we're going to reveal it in a minute, where you're at right now, Harsha? How do you think about mentoring, and how important is it?

Harsha Bellur  25:10
Oh, absolutely! Very, very important. And I can, I can, you know, tell that to my own experience. And while I haven't used the word mentor with my dad, certainly, in hindsight, that's really what was happening, though he was necessarily not playing that role, nor was I kind of, you know, in seeking that mentorship. But it just happened organically for us, but along the way, you know, you mentioned the CHRO, so that was during my first job at Bowlero as the CIO. And it's a funny story, because when I was offered the job that I actually didn't take it, I declined the job.

Lisa Nichols  25:48
Oh, you didn't tell me that.

Harsha Bellur  25:52
And to everybody's surprise, and obviously the CHRO at that time, Tony, who is actually still in Richmond, Virginia, and he came to me and said, Oh, what happened, that was a big surprise? And so, there was two components. One was, I didn't feel the compensation was fair, so I told him. And the argument they made was, well, you're just getting started, so we just had to, you know, tailor, I said, Are you going to expect anything less from me? Because I just started, and they said, No, then I'm like, okay, then, then how, why wouldn't we then compensate appropriately? The second, probably the more important one, was I was pursuing. I decided to pursue an MBA. So, I had enrolled in the school in Richmond, Virginia, and I told the CEO who was hiring me. Hey, I just want you to know that, you know, I've enrolled here. And I just, you know, would love to get, get your support on that, because I will make sure that you know nothing is, is going to be, that it's not going to affect or impact my job here, and he said, No, that's your problem. That's got nothing to do with me. 

Harsha Bellur  27:05
And that, that statement didn't kind of sit well with me. So, I said, Okay, if I don't feel that support, kind of going back to understanding people and building relationship, I like, Okay, that didn't connect with me. So, I said, Okay, I don't think I can see myself working with this individual. So, after all this transpired, the CHRO came to me, and he and I had a chat, and, you know, he convinced me that that was, that was not what was the intent, and so on and so forth. So not only did everything work out okay at the end of the day, Bowlero also sponsored part of my MBA, which was not part of the original deal. So, which so it all, it all turned out, turned off wonderful from then on. And certainly, success begets success. And then it just developed. So, not only that that little incident, and what I learned later on was the CEO was so appreciative of my conviction that I knew what I bought to the table, though that was my first job, and anybody would have just grabbed it. I was very clear in my mind, if I didn't work, connect with you and I, you know, you didn't understand my perspective then I didn't see a path forward for us. And he appreciated the conviction, which is why they decided to even support me in my, my pursuit of education after that. 

Lisa Nichols  28:33
Well, I know that they got a return on their investment. Because you took them to the next level, I believe, and we love Bowlero. Well, we do need to take a quick break, and we'll be right back on the Something Extra Podcast with Harsha Bellur.

AD  28:50
Hey, there, in a challenging business climate like this, savvy leaders look to technology to find an edge. This can mean the difference between staying ahead of the curve or playing catch up. It's time to collaborate with the highly skilled experts at Technology Partners. Our team of technologists draws upon decades of experience for your project, with each bringing a passion for solving problems and a track record of success. How can we help you overcome your biggest technology challenges? Visit technologypartners.net to book a free consultation with one of our leaders.

Lisa Nichols  29:20
Well, welcome back, everyone, to the Something Extra Podcast with Harsha Bellur. We have been having so much fun talking, but I'm bringing our listeners up to where you are today, Harsha, and you have been for the last 12 years, and you and I talked about that. I mean it speaks a lot to you, character wise. I think it speaks a lot to this company and the culture, because it's kind of unusual for a CIO to be somewhere for 12 years. But I look at that as a real positive. But you're at one of my favorite brands, and that is James Avery. We had an office, I don't know if I told you this Harsha, but we had an office in DFW back in the mid-2000s for about six years. And one of our colleagues there, Amy Roberts, introduced me to James Avery, and I have been a fan ever since. I absolutely love the brand, and you are the CIO. Can you give our listeners? Maybe our listeners don't know the story of James Avery. Can you give our listeners just a little bit of history, because it's a fascinating story.

Harsha Bellur  30:24
Absolutely! You said you love James Harry. We allow our customers too. It's a mutual relationship. But yes, so, James Avery, you know, 2024 we celebrated 70 years and the company was founded by the namesake, Mr. Avery James Avery in his mother in law's garage in Kerrville, Texas, this little town about 45 minutes outside of San Antonio. And you know, he was an industrial engineer by trade, and so he was trying to, you know, pursue his passion of creativity and artwork, and made some crosses initially, and he just, you know, handed off to his friends. And of course, as the story goes, they all loved it. It's like, how can I get more? And so, you know, the beginning of something big started there. One of the interesting components or aspects of the companies, what we refer to as vertically integrated. So today we are in about we have about 140 retail stores. We obviously have E commerce. We do wholesale business with the likes of Dillard’s and Von Maur in the Upper Midwest, Army and Air Force Exchange, you know, few of those facilities as well. 

Harsha Bellur  31:45
And so, in all of this, when I talk about vertical integration, what that really means is that we have actually a staff of designers, kind of this. This is kind of the trade that we continue from what Mr. Avery did. He was an artist by interest and passion. So, we have designers who are professional artists, and they start with an inspiration of a sketch, right? Whatever products that we're looking to make, they start and that inspiration can come from seasons. Can come from personal experiences, faith, market trends, whatever it could be inspiration from anywhere. And so, when they create those sketches, that group of designers are on staff, that from there, we do what is called prototyping. So, we take this hand sketch and we have to create a prototype in metal that looks like a piece of jewelry that our customers will wear, and it's durable, and it's affordable, and so on and so forth. And once we get past that, we do our own manufacturing. And I say manufacturing, but it's really, we call those craftsman centers, and we have one to four craftsman centers, and so all of these operations are in Texas, and we do the entire cycle. So, once it's in manufacturing, we then have our own distribution center, and then we have our own retail and E commerce. So, the entire experience of what we make and what we deliver and how we serve our customers is managed internally end to end, and it's all managed here in Texas. So, I think that's one of the unique aspects of our business, that we control, the entire product life cycle and the customer experience end to end.

Lisa Nichols  33:43
So, quality, you know, it's going to be consistent, right? And customer experience, and I know that customer experience is so important to you guys, you know, and, and we've talked about the story. So, you know, there are, I guess, three anchors, you know, is faith, family and heritage, and that kind of remains part of the brand story today. I kind of laughed, though a little bit Harsha, and I know you guys still do print this, but like in 1957 he printed his first catalog. It took me back to when I was a little girl in the Sears and Roebuck catalog that was about this big, you know? And, of course, now so much of it is, is digital, right? And you've got a very big E commerce platform. I love it. It just for our listeners, just, I mean, this is remarkable to me. You know, since Harsha has been there, they've grown the business four times 4x increased revenues by quite a few percentages achieve 50% reduction in manufacturing lead time. Which is awesome. Team attrition, Harsha, and this one is amazing to me, is less than 5%

Harsha Bellur  34:59
Less than five percent. I mean, what I've been blessed with is, you know, when I came on board here, part of my mandate was exactly that is to really enable technology as a competitive advantage to the business. So, when I was hired by the then CEO, Chris Avery, who was the son of Mr. James Avery, and Chris, interestingly, is a medical doctor. He's certified MD by profession, and so he was a practicing physician and anesthesiologist. And then, you know when the business needed him to be here, he left that practice. And so, when, when he and I spoke, he said, Well, you know, I don't know technology. I don't understand technology, but I do know tech. If we are not competitive in our application and use of technology, that, that's a detriment to business going forward. So, I need a leader that can really cast a vision and really help James Avery become a, you know, use technology as a competitive advantage. And what was that, that was music to my ears. And so obviously, that's why I'm here. 

Harsha Bellur  36:07
But what really that competitive advantage meant was as a company, you know, 50-60, year old company, at that point in time, everything just grew organically. So, we have, we first started as a manufacturing facility, and you know, everything was about making products, and as our retail footprint grew, we transitioned from being a craftsman manufacturer to becoming a retail company. And when you when you are a retail company, you know you have fixed costs with retail shops and stores, and you have a much more dynamic customer expectations. You know, the shopping patterns change, consumer habits change. So, our need to adapt to that became more important than our ability to just make products and so that's really where the enablement of technology came into play. Because we are vertically integrated. If our if, you know, if you do make a product and our customers love it, and it's going, you know, flying off the shelves, well, we have to be able to get those signals as quickly as possible so that we can make more of it, and vice versa. If something was not selling as well as we thought, we need to get those signals to stop making more of that, because it's all part of the management. 

Harsha Bellur  37:27
So, until we actually were able to kind of apply and leverage technology to what I refer to as connecting all these disparate parts of the business, because manufacturing and manufacturing dynamics are very different than retail. And retail dynamics E commerce is its own beast. And then in between all this is kind of supply chain, so being able to connect all these disparate functions and different technology stacks and provide a seamless and harmonious flow of information. And you mentioned agile early on and in an, you know, you know, in a fast and adaptive way, is really what the value add we bring. So, from my team's perspective, you know, I cannot hire somebody with just retail experience. I need somebody that can understand the true customer and then really map those customer journeys and say, Okay, how does something affect a customer journey and customer experience? You know, is it about shipping times? Is it about knowing when they get the product? Is it about knowing you know where their service status is, etc, etc. So, bringing all that together was really what, what the value add that we bring to my team. 

Harsha Bellur  38:44
So just kind of coming back to your question about, you know, what was it then, and what is it today that was kind of really the journey and the transition that we might, and in all of this, as we continue to, to mature our technology, I hired people. So, when I came on board, we had about nine people on the team. Today, we have a little over 50, and everybody that we hired, more or less have remained on the team and as it is. The company has high tenure and but much of my team. I live in Austin, and much of my team lives in Austin, so for us to have that retention in a tech heavy market like Austin, where you know, you could work with all the big tech names. I think is a remarkable testament of how we operate as a company.

Lisa Nichols  39:41
Agreed, agreed. I love it well, and that's the employee experience. But you know, this is remarkable to me. Your net promoter score from a customer experience is 90% that, ours is 88%. Technology Partners is 88% so you got a couple percentage points.

Harsha Bellur  40:03
You have a new benchmark now, Lisa.

Lisa Nichols  40:07
Exactly, but you know, for anybody that follows NPS scores, the industry average, we're, we're both way above industry average, right? But you guys have done a remarkable job on the customer service, because Newsweek listed you guys, added you as one of the most exceptional customer services so, just so awesome. Well, I've got, oh my goodness, I've got so many more questions, but I know we're kind of getting a little short on time, and you've already answered some of these about, you know, the customer experience, you know, what do you see, Harsha, what are some of the biggest tech trends that you see right now that are shaping the retail industry, in the manufacturing industry?

Harsha Bellur  40:59
I mean, obviously the, you know, the obvious response is, AI.

Lisa Nichols  41:06
I was going to say, it's AI.

Harsha Bellur  41:09
It's, it's, it's really AI, and all the different, you know, byproducts of AI. So, in manufacturing, we see robotics as a key opportunity, but here's the thing, though, Lisa certainly in James Avery, and in our company. I mean, we are so proud of our heritage of craftsmanship and, you know, people actually, you know, making the products, and not machines and robots making the products. So, it is important for in my role as you know you, we talked about discernment. So, this is kind of another application of that discernment is not only tracking all the tech that's out there, but also making sure that the application does not dilute the brand value and the brand promise. And so, it's easy for us to get excited about robotics and say, oh, we're going to do all that. And but then we have to ask ourselves, like, does that align with our brand value? So, I say that because that's an important consideration that doesn't take away the opportunities to leverage technology, because, as I've already noted, we have done a lot of that, but we have to always, you know, the litmus test is that it should not dilute what has developed as a brand promise and brand integrity for the last 70 years. 

Harsha Bellur  42:34
But, so with that said, you know, AI is definitely a big part of how I think a lot of things will change and evolve. And I, to be honest, I think it's still something that's developing, while we hear a lot of you know, headlines and excitement about it, it's very few known published cases of true ROI that's been generated yet. So, for a company of our scale, we're going to, you know, kind of wait and watch to see how that evolves. But beyond that, you know, one of the most important aspects of having any AI be successful is really the data, because data is the fuel for AI. So, really understanding the data quality, the data integrity and kind of really all of the data sets that we have available in the company, and how best can we organize and manage that to harness what might be out there from AI is also an important opportunity for company because I know you can you can't run if you can't crawl, right? So, so you have to really understand that there are some building blocks and but the advantage with data is that you can start to generate value once you understand, you know what you have and how you drive derive insights, even without AI. AI can just kind of really boost what we can do in terms of speed and efficiencies. 

Harsha Bellur  44:15
So, so those two things come into my mind. But then, of course, there's always, certainly in retail, there's a lot of virtual experiences, like virtual try ons and, you know. And I think there, there's that has had mixed response in terms of how that has panned out, but I do think as immersive experiences continue to evolve with. Again, you know, AI and the cost efficiencies of compute, because these, these immersive experiences require, you know, powerful computer resources. And as the cost come down, I think those can become more and more. I think consumers probably might appreciate that, because, you know, they don't have to worry about how something might look. And because online shopping, that was always the challenge with online shopping is you can't quite tell, because you don't have that tactile.

Lisa Nichols  45:25
If it looks good on you.

Harsha Bellur  45:30
Because, particularly in the industry that we are, it's very tactile, right? It's not just about looks, it's about how it feels and how it you know, kind of. There's the, there's a tactile emotion that that we have to feel, and that's always going to be a challenge. But on the other hand, though, which is, which is kind of a counter intuitive, is that there is also been a resurgence in customers desired interest to actually be in the stores. And what is interesting about that is that that's, there is a clear distinction between stores that do well in terms of how what that experience is. And hence, you know, customers are more inclined to go there, and then there are stores that haven't quite figured out how to do that. And those experiences can still be frustrating. 

Harsha Bellur  46:25
And so, we, for us, James Avery, we clearly can tell that our customers love to go to our stores. And we, you know, even though we have online sites, you know, 50, close to 50% of our online business is actually pick up in store. So, the customers really want to go to the store to pick up the product. So, it's, it's an interesting dynamic there. And so, one of our focus in as it relates to retail is also to look at the store experience and how we can enhance that. And when it comes to store experience, what's it what another interesting angle is, because we are we have people, store associates who assist our customers. We also have to focus on our associates experience, because if they the tools they have and the things that they need to do are seamless, they are able to then translate that into better experience. How many times have you heard when you call a call center or wherever, saying, oh my gosh, my computer is so slow today? Okay, obviously, if that's what they're dealing with, that directly translates to how the customer's experience was going to be.

Lisa Nichols  47:37
No doubt, no doubt. It's fascinating, though. It is really fascinating. Let me ask you this question. I read an article that you wrote because you write a lot for the National CIO review, and it was titled, unlocking business value with technology, and you contrast that with rather the traditional technology and business. Can you unpack that just a little bit? And I have a few more questions for you, and then we'll talk about something extra.

Harsha Bellur  48:07
Yes, you know, and this is really what I see as kind of, really, what the potential and the opportunity for tech leader CIOs, is that historically, you know, it was always thought, technology was always thought as kind of an efficiency enabler, like we would, you know, implement an ERP, because it makes more sense to have everything in one platform. And we would implement HCM, or, you know, CRM, what have you. Never was technology thought to be a tool or an enabler for top line revenue or customer experience. Like it was never an outward looking business growth strategy. It was almost inward looking. How can we make things better? So, to me, that was really the, the point that I was trying to make is that, you know, we should stop talking about, you know, technology in business, like, you know, hey, well, what are we doing inside? But really talk about technology as a business where, you know, if I want to, you know, improve 2% top line growth. Like, oh, can technology help? That's kind of really the narrative that I think I was suggesting opportunity for leaders. And what's important for us to do that was not necessarily, it's not a statement and suddenly things change, but it also required us to have an intimate understanding of the business, right? We needed to understand where the potential was to improve our margins, or where the potential was to improve our top line growth, or and work with those partners. You mentioned manufacturing. 

Harsha Bellur  49:54
So, one of the things that that we had a challenge was that the signals of inventory sell through as the term we say is how much was actually selling we were we were not getting that in a timely manner with the manufacturing. So, if something went off the shelf in retail, it would take eight to 10 weeks before manufacturing, can, you know, refill the stuff? So, that's what's called cycle time. Well, from the time I get the signal, how much time do I need to refill the coffers, if you will? That was about eight to 10 weeks. So, by if I understood that. And okay, if you think about something like this, in the month of December, we lost significant revenue because we didn't have inventory. And we didn't have inventory because we couldn't send the signals fast enough. So, if I were to have a dialog with our manufacturing teams along those lines, and say, by the way, what if we find a way to get you information more real time? What do you think? How do you think that would help you manage your cycle time? And so, and they would say, oh, oh. If the problem that we have today is that it takes two three weeks before we understand something, okay, so if I could get you real time. So, are you telling me that you can cut two three weeks of your cycle time? They're like, so, then we figure out how to help solve that. And so now we are back down to three to four weeks, right?

Lisa Nichols  51:39
And your throughput, your throughput is going to be better, right? You're throughput is going to be better. Your, your top line is going to be better, because you're going to be selling faster.

Harsha Bellur  51:48
Exactly. So, to me, this is kind of really the principle of the technology, the business of technology is like, Okay, we have to think of the how we use technology in the true context of running the business, not in terms of how we kind of make something that's going on today more efficient, but that's still important, that doesn't go away. But my point there was, was kind of around that.

Lisa Nichols  52:17
Right. Oh, my goodness. Harsha, there's so many things we can talk about. I know you're part of I know you were a CIO award winner in Austin. You were voted as CIO of the year there. I think you're in part of Inspire, right, because you were an ORBIE finalist. We were the founding underwriter for inspire in the St Louis chapter. We've got that connection. But let me ask you just one more thing, and then I we need to talk about something extra. We don't need to, but we get to, we're privileged to talk about because I cannot wait to hear what your something extra is. But I know you're a huge reader. You're an avid reader. So, am I? You can see from behind me with all of the books. You know what, I know that you've said that there are some books that you really like, you love. Simon Sinek, I do too, "Start With Why," "Courage," what other books have really inspired you? Are you reading something now currently that you could share with our listeners?

Harsha Bellur  53:24
The first book I picked up, you know, in 25 is book called "The Coming Wave." It's, it's really about AI and, and it's from an author called Mustafa. He was one of the founders of Deep Mind, which, which, was, I think, got acquired by Google. And I, I'm reading that just because, obviously AI is now the headline everywhere, and I wanted to get some of the perspectives from these thought leaders. Because this is a space where, As I said, there's a lot of noise, and it's my responsibility to kind of really on this, you know, clear the noise and understand the matter. So, I picked up this book, which, honestly, Lisa, if I was going to read this 10 years ago, I would have probably qualified it as a fiction. But, you know, for good or bad, it's reality that we're dealing with right now. So, that's the book I'm currently reading. 

Harsha Bellur  54:33
But you know, one of my interests over the course of time has been in behavioral psychology and it's just, I don't know, somehow it energizes me. Makes me very curious to understand why people are the way they are, why people you know, behave the way they do. And it's deeply reflecting as much as it's. You know, kind of learning, and it also aligns, I love travel. Love to travel. And I, my criteria on how I choose travel are combination of nature, culture and history. So, I pick spaces. So, when I from that experience, I look at history and see, oh my gosh, how much of history kind of really is manifesting itself in current times, culture, as much as we think there are different cultures when you kind of remove the facade and look underneath, it's humanity everywhere. I mean, it's so that travel that I've been doing from a very young age has really as I've, you know, in where I am today, in my professional career and personal life. I'm more reflective now on and so behavioral psychology has really helped me, kind of help reinforce that thought process and perspective. So, I read, I'm not reading a lot of books, books I subscribe to Blinkist. I don't know if you know Blinkist?

Lisa Nichols  56:09
We love Blinkist. My husband, Greg is a Blinkist evangelist.

Harsha Bellur  56:16
So, between podcasts on Spotify and, you know, little snippets in Blinkist is how I'm consuming a lot of material today.

Lisa Nichols  56:27
Good. I love that you and I could probably do a whole podcast just on books that we've read and that we love. And, well, okay, so that brings us to this question, Harsha, what is your something extra? And I would love for you to not just tell me what it is, but maybe why. If there's a story that you can relate to, why you think that something extra is what every leader needs. What is your something extra that you believe every leader needs?

Harsha Bellur  56:59
That's such a great question. Lisa, I know this was gonna come, but I, you know, I was giving this a lot of thought, and I was thinking about it. But you know what really came back to me over and over, again, and again, this could be just kind of my experience. And I find that a lot of leaders are very good in vision casting. They know how to kind of help present the future and paint a picture. But and then a lot of leaders that are really good at, you know, okay, getting the job done. I think that that combination of the two, right is not common. In my experience, I haven't seen a lot of leaders that can not only paint a vision and a future state, but also kind of map out how to execute and get to that. So, it kind of goes back to the strategy and execution. So, to me, if you know, if somebody's got that, you know, sense for okay, I know where we need to be, but I also have a general direction on how we get there, and let them kind of allow the teams to figure out, you know, the mechanics of it. In my experience, you know, perhaps this comes through that kind of that entrepreneurial lens, because when you're an entrepreneur, you obviously have to cast that vision and also figure out how to get there. So, however you want to characterize it, you know, whether it's the blend of strategy and execution or maybe it's in a kind of a dose of entrepreneurship, I find that to be like a perfect asset, if somebody can bring that to the table.

Lisa Nichols  59:01
Yes, I would say that that would be a major competitive advantage, right? If you have it. Because really, as you were talking Harsha, I was thinking you had the vision, but you don't really understand how to get there. I mean, you can surround yourself with people, right, COOs and things like that. But I'm thinking it's just a dream. It's a dream and it will go nowhere, right? So, I think you're spot on there. I love that. I know I'm not had in our 330 almost 330 episodes, I've not ever had anyone say that like that. So good. It resonates with me. It truly was so. Gosh, Harsha, this has been so much fun. I appreciate you making the time so much, because I know that you're really busy, but I appreciate it. And I know that our listeners are going to appreciate learning from you.

Harsha Bellur  59:55
Lisa, it was such a pleasure just sharing my experience and talking with you. Thank you for having me on the show, and hopefully you know your audience will find you know at least some, one thing that that might inspire them or get them to think. 

Lisa Nichols  1:00:12
Absolutely! Well, I am looking forward to our next interaction, Harsha. So, thank you so much again for being on the show. Have a great rest of the day.

Harsha Bellur  1:00:21
All right, awesome, Lisa. Thank you so much. 

Announcer  1:00:24
Thank you for listening to today's show. Something Extra with Lisa. Nichols as a Technology Partners Production Copyright Technology Partners Inc. 2019. For show notes, or to reach Lisa, visit tpi.co/podcast. Don't forget to leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Google Play, or wherever you listen. 

*Please note, the preceding transcription has been automatically generated and should be used for informational purposes only.