Compassion-powered Resilience w/ Gary Baker

In this episode, we explore how a passion for helping others was shaped by an unconventional childhood. Gary Baker, President and CEO of Undivided Wealth Management, shares candid stories about growing up with young parents in a chaotic environment, and how the unwavering love he received became the foundation for his resilience and people-centric leadership style. Together, Lisa and Gary reflect on the power of embracing adversity, the importance of community, and the life-changing impact of servant leadership. Tune in for inspiring insights on turning life’s challenges into your greatest strengths and discovering the “something extra” within us all.

Guest Links:

• Gary’s LinkedIn
• Undivided Wealth Management

Credits: 
Host: Lisa Nichols
Executive Producer: Jenny Heal
Marketing Support: Landon Burke and Joe Szynkowski
Podcast Engineer: Portside Media

Transcript

Lisa Nichols  00:02
Chromosomes, little strands of nucleic acids and proteins are the fundamental genetic instructions that tell us who we are. At birth, most people are born with 46 chromosomes, but each year in the United States, about 6000 people are born with an extra chromosome, making them a person with Down syndrome. If you've ever encountered someone with Down syndrome, you know that they are some of the kindest, most joyful people you will ever meet. They truly have something extra. 

My name is Lisa Nichols, and for 30 years, I have been both the CEO of Technology Partners and the mother to Ally. Ally has something extra in every sense of the word. I have been blessed to be by her side as she impacts everyone she meets. Through these two important roles as CEO and mother to Ally, I have witnessed countless life lessons that have fundamentally changed the way I look at the world. While you may not have an extra chromosome, every leader has something extra that defines who you are. 

Join me as I explore the something extra in leaders from all walks of life and discover how that difference in each of them has made a difference in their companies, their families, their communities and in themselves. If you like this episode today, please go to Apple Podcast or wherever you listen and leave us a five-star rating.

I am thrilled to have Gary Baker on the show today. Gary is the president and CEO of Undivided Wealth Management. Gary Baker, I am thrilled to have you on the Something Extra Podcast today. Thank you, my friend. Thank you for making the time to be with me.

Gary Baker  01:37
Absolutely! This is something I've been looking forward to a long time. So, thank you very much. 

Lisa Nichols  01:42
Yes, me too. Will you and I go back way back to 2013 Do you remember how we met?

Gary Baker  01:51
I do. And there's just a mini story before we even met, which, you know, takes us out of the country and me meeting your son and all of those things. And so, if, if, if you want to, I can take a little trip down memory lane and kind of share that story because I love talking about your son. 

Lisa Nichols  02:06
Absolutely! What was the trip for you can maybe tell our listeners a little bit about that organization, if you can, because they may not be familiar.

Gary Baker  02:14
Sure. So, one thing that I realized earlier in my career is, you know, of course, I want to help people. I want to understand cultures, different people. And so, we were connected with a group called Opportunity International through one of our mutual friends, Rich McClure. And they were doing what they call an insight trip, which is where you go down and kind of visit the culture, understand their business model, what they're doing, etc. Just so you can start to understand what your contribution is and you know what you're what you're trying to do to help them. And so, you and Greg were supposed to go on the trip. And I was excited, because Rich kept saying, wait till you meet Lisa Nichols, she's this dynamo person. You know, which, which? I was excited. And then, obviously, unfortunately, something was going on with Greg's father at the time. And so, you guys decided to substitute your son, Jordan, who was, who was, how old at that time, do you think?

Lisa Nichols  03:01
Well, that was 2013. Oh, now I have to do math. He was early 20s, like maybe 21-22.

Gary Baker  03:08
So, at that point in time, Sarah and I just had our first son. And, you know, you always wonder, when you have a baby, like, what do they turn out to be? And Jordan is full of life in many ways. I mean, he's a great looking kid. He has a great personality. He has all of these interests. It's one of those kids that has the possibilities to do anything. And so, when I first met him, that's my initial reaction. And then over time, throughout the trip, I felt like I became like, we became like surrogate parents, like Jordan, I know your parents aren't here. I don't know if I would do that if I were you or make sure you're home by 10:30 and he's probably like, Who the heck are you? Like, I just met you. So, I became like, his like, older brother and but he is just such an awesome human being and person. And so, when I got back, I just, I said, I have to meet these parents. I have to meet the person, the people who produce this great human being. And so that's where we met, in your office. 

Lisa Nichols  04:00
Yes, I remember that. And we had talked about this. We had never met Dr. Tom Hill before, and you brought Dr. Tom Hill with you, Gary, and a lot of people know Dr. Hill. I have traveled to Denver, I have traveled to Dallas, and people know I've got a good friend in Michigan. He's like, Hey, do you know Dr. Tom Hill, I said, I sure do you know it's just crazy. But Opportunity is a great organization. Greg and I are still on the Board of Governors. If any of our listeners want to learn more about that, I will tell you the one thing about that organization. Jordan came back. So, these, Opportunity really helps with micro financing for entrepreneurs, right? In developing countries, Gary and but what they do that's very different, are trust groups. So, if you have got a loan from Opportunity, you are in a trust group with 10 other people. And Gary and I are in a trust group if I renege on my loan, Gary has to pay my loan back. Well, guess what? Everybody pays their loan back. It's incredible.

Gary Baker  05:08
And I take it even a step further, if you don't mind, but correct me if I'm wrong, too. But the majority of their trust groups are actually made up of women because women want to provide for their families. So, if they're making extra money, they know what's going to go to the family, not towards, you know, whatever else it can be spent on. And one of the stories that they shared with these trust groups is that one of the ladies actually had her loan payment, but the husband took it and went down to the local bar or something, and he was spending it. So, these 10 ladies as a trust group said, Nope, we got a loan payment to make. They went down to the bar and got the money back from him. I mean, that's how powerful these trust groups are. I mean, the courage, I should say so. Not only is it leveraging knowledge and insights, etc., but it gives them a branded collaboration around courage. And it's powerful.

Lisa Nichols  06:00
It is so powerful. And I just remember Jordan coming back and saying, there was a major difference. He saw the entrepreneurs that were part of Opportunity and ones that were not. He said there was a big difference, you know, in the success of those. And so, it's a powerful if any of our listeners want to learn more, Gary and I can definitely connect you.

Gary Baker  06:21
You know what? And if you don't mind, let me, because I think this is important. Since you're taking me down memory lane, one thing that I noticed about Jordan, which was profound to me, is I'm one of those people who likes to get involved, but I kind of sit there and watch and listen and learn, and then eventually I will engage. He was friends with everyone on the first day, as soon as he walked in. I mean, of course, you know, they're talking to him. They're playing soccer with him. He's sharing, like, clothes with them. I mean, he has zero fear to immerse himself in the culture to learn. And they accepted him, which was awesome. And I just remember thinking, how does he do that? Like, how does he have the courage to just step out of his own comfort zone, language barrier, cultural barriers, you know, monetary barriers. I mean, there's no barriers with someone like Jordan, he just immersed himself in what's right. And that probably was what now I think about stands up to me, stands out to me. The most about him is just how comfortable he was immersing himself right away. And so, you do learn a lot about cultures. And to your point, if you're going to take a trip like that, you know, don't be afraid to truly immerse yourself in there, because that's how you really grow and learn.

Lisa Nichols  07:29
That's good. Well, thank you for that, Gary. I'll make sure that I share this episode with him, because I know that that will fill up his tank. So, thank you for that. You know, but I just remember you, Gary, I mean, from the time that we met, you are this passionate, humble, incredibly, brilliant servant leader. We've talked about this. You're very people, you're a people centric leader. You know, I want to dig into all of that, but before we do, just take me back to a day in the life of Gary Baker as a young boy. Now, you were you a match mischievous boy, kind of like Jordan and Jack? Or were you a studious boy?

Gary Baker  08:09
So, how far do you want to go back? Do you want to go to like, you know, junior high, high school, kind of going back that far?

Lisa Nichols  08:15
What would you like to do? What kind of, what kind of, were you a good student? Were you, you know, tell me a little bit about you. 

Gary Baker  08:21
So, it's funny that you bring this up, because I've just done some writing about this aspect of my life. And so, my parents actually had me when they were 18 and 19 years old. And so, they were very young parents, and my dad actually owned two bars. So, I grew up in this environment that was uncertain, chaotic, not what I would call like a normal childhood and so, but it was normal to me, and I had a lot of adult conversations. I got to see a lot of humanity, sometimes, at the worst, sometimes, you know, just, just the realness. And so, you learn how to navigate those things and understand where people are coming from, and how to navigate conversations, in quotes, or, you know, a lot of different kind of unique environments just say the least. 

Gary Baker  09:07
But what that did was it taught me a lot of you know, just how to be resilient, how to be persuasive, how to understand, how to seek with empathy, how to live with empathy, to realize that, you know, not everybody has the plain vanilla, white picket fence. You know two story you know when a you know four kids and a dog, or four people in a dog kind of scenario. But I never knew the difference because one thing that I have come to believe, and I try to not that I'm some great, wise old parent, but I'm 48 now, and my kids are getting older. One thing that I never doubted for a second was that my parents loved me. And so, I realized that regardless of circumstance or environment, if you feel love or appreciation or support, you could literally endure anything. And so, in high school, I became very outgoing, and I but I was outgoing in the sense that I was curious about other people's lives, and I just wanted to get to know people. 

Gary Baker  10:00
So, I didn't hang out with a click, even though I had my little, you know, sports group, and, you know, I was a baseball player and all of those things. I literally got to know everyone, or tried to get to know everyone. And I as a kid, you don't do those things because you're trying to achieve something or get something. It's just who you are. And so, I realized at a very young age that I definitely was a people person, but I cared about people and hearing their stories and getting curious about. You know, what they want to do and how do they want to accomplish things, or whatever it may be. But this is what the difference was, because I grew up in an environment like that that caused me to have, you know, unquote kind of, you know, grit. You know, just that level of grinding and resilience and all those things that we need to be, entrepreneurs, etc. I learned that at such a young age that it became like one of my superpowers in my 20s. 

Gary Baker  10:49
Because most people, if they live a normal, plain vanilla life, they're not used to disruption, they're not used to chaos, they're not used to uncertainty. And so, when they have that dropped in their lap for the first time, they're dealing with it sometimes for the first times in their 20s and 30s. And I'm thinking, like, this is a Tuesday for me growing up, so this is nothing. And so, I just realized, like, what, what arguably, could be something is my, you know, someone would call a setback, or, you know, drawback, or whatever it is of this kind of, you know, chaotic childhood. Actually, I'm grateful for it, because it helped me learn a lot more about life. So much so that I actually wanted to be a psychologist, because I wanted to help more people understand they can overcome adversity no matter what the circumstances.

Lisa Nichols  11:35
That's so powerful. Oh, my goodness, Gary, that's so powerful. We could peel back the onion. There's so many things in there you talked about, you know, it may be a little bit uncertain, you know, a little bit a non-traditional type upbringing, but your parents loved you. And there are studies out there that say even if a child has one parent or one person in their life that loves him, it makes a world of difference in their life and who they become. So, you know, I think love and a goodness gracious boy, I mean, we could do a whole podcast on the mistakes that I made as a parent. I've made so many mistakes as a parent, but I have said to people at the end of the day, just make sure that you're loving your kids. Love your kids, because I feel like your kids, no matter what it is that they're that you're that they're going through, they've got to know that somebody's in their corner.

Gary Baker  12:30
And the beauty, I know sounds kind of cliche, but love is free, so it doesn't matter what school they go to. It doesn't matter that you can buy them a car at 16 or, you know, whatever these things are. And of course, you know, I want to do those things for my kids. But on the flip side, I realized, as a foundation, as a human being, that's all they genuinely need, and then they can figure out their own lives. They can accomplish things they want to. But to your point, we've also seen, when you have the absence of that, you will fill that in with something else. And that's where, you know, that takes a lot of unwinding. And so as much as the world was chaotic, I will always be grateful to my parents that I never doubted for a minute that I was loved in chaos.

Lisa Nichols  13:11
Yes, I love that. Well, I think that's gonna give people hope. And then just, you know, talking about, I love too, Gary, just that you had lived in chaos and you had learned how to navigate that at a young age. So, we may have a listener out there that feels like they're living in chaos right now, but don't despise that. Is it hard? It absolutely is, you know, and sometimes just literally it sucks. You know, life can suck sometimes, but don't despise that piece, because something's being worked out in you that I think will eventually come out to possibly help you in the future and to make you a stronger person. So, there's just so much about what you said that I love. But you went on to Mizzou to study personal finance, and then received your MBA from Wash U. Now you're teaching there as an adjunct professor. I want to talk a little bit about that. But what, Gary, drew you to personal finance, you know? And what has kept you in it for over 25 years, or however long you've been in that?

Gary Baker  14:22
So, there's, I'm starting to develop at least my own personal formula. I don't know if this necessarily applies to everybody else's life, but there's a personal formula. So, you have the love foundation, and then with that love foundation, you can kind of get this encouragement from your parents. I got a lot of encouragement from Dr. Hill. That's what I refer to him as the great encourager, because that's what he does. He tells people, like, dream as big as you want to and, and he's right from that standpoint. And so, so you get love, you get encouragement. But then I wanted to help people, and so I told my grandfather I wanted to be a psychologist. And he said, Well, you know, there's a lot of ways you can help people. And I would go to his place, or his house on the weekends and do like chores and things like that, and we'd always talk about the stock market and business and leadership and things along those lines. 

Gary Baker  15:07
And so, he said, Well, maybe you can be a financial advisor, because you like numbers and you know the markets and all of these conversations we've had. And he said, Why don't you have a call with my financial advisor? So, at 18, I'll never forget, I was staying in his kitchen. He handed me the phone and he said, Gary, you know, I appreciate the fact that you want to be a financial advisor to, you know, because you like the markets and the numbers and, you know, all of those kinds of things. But I just want you to know that most of the days I feel like I'm a psychologist, not a financial advisor, and I'm like, home run. This is it. This is like, if I can merge those worlds together to where I can help people with the math and the numbers and, you know, the markets and the economy and all the things that I find interest in, but I also can still help people at a, you know, even to a certain degree, to a psychological level. I'm like, this is a, this is perfect. 

Gary Baker  15:57
And so, I am so grateful that you know that he was available. And this is where it just goes to show you like I hope people become mentors and reach out and have these conversations when young people reach out, because you just don't know the impact that you could have, I mean, but that was a true trajectory changing moment. And so, my pathway became easy learn about the markets and investing and learn about people, and just keep on following those two engines, and here we are, 28 years later. So, the personal finance was easy.

Lisa Nichols  16:27
Amazing. That was a pivotal point for you. Your Path became clear at that point. I love that. Well, you've worked in a lot of big, big institutions, and we'll talk, I've got a question about that. But you founded Undivided Wealth, and I just want to know, like, what sparked that leap? And I think you know, I know what it is, but I'd love for you to tell our listeners, and it goes back to a lot of what you just talked about, and being able to help people.

Gary Baker  16:57
And so, what, what you'll hear a lot of financial advisors talk about when they meet with their clients is they say, we talk about the markets or what's going on their portfolios, etc., for about 10 minutes, and then we start talking about their life for the rest of the time. And that's a very true statement. And the reason why you only talk about 10 minutes is because most people think, well, I don't know that. I don't care to know that. That's why I'm actually working with you, so you guys can figure those things out. And I don't want to be bored for the next 60 minutes or 90 minutes, or whatever it is. But then what happens is, this is also a unique factor of being a financial advisor, is it's one of the occupations that you actually meet with a client, at least, you know, on a quarterly basis, over a long, extended period of time. So, when you meet somebody over a quarterly basis, over a long, extended period of time, and they're talking about something that's about something that's very private and sensitive to them, their money, they're also open now to talk about everything else that is going on their life. And anything that they want to do that has real significant meaning at some point in time is going to cost some level of money. So, it starts to bridge that gap, you know, funding education, you know, just whatever it may be. 

Gary Baker  18:01
And so, what I realized is, well, what our industry is missing is the people part, the human part. And so, if back to that time, we're spending 10 minutes on the financials, great nail that be a black belt in that understand it. But then also nail and be a black belt in the things that matter most to them, which is the other 60 minutes. So, if you can get become skilled at understanding who they are, why they exist, what they want to accomplish, where they want to accomplish it, what do they want to leave back, you can actually become a guide on that side of the equation, in addition to the monetary guide. Well, to me, that's the dream. To everybody else who's like, whatever, God, you're happy doing that. But I mean, that's been my dream since I was 18, and thankfully, I've just spun it into what it is today. 

Lisa Nichols  18:46
I love it. I love it. Well, let me ask you this, you created the Undivided Experience Center from scratch. I've been there multiple times for events. What was the vision behind that, Gary?

Gary Baker  18:58
So perfect. So, what I've always envisioned is I don't want to help people think about life. I want to have people live life. And so, you know, if you think about our building, you know, 10,000 square feet, 2500 of it is the wealth management part. So, we cover their investment plan, we cover their financial plan, and then in their financial plan, they start to give us the things that they want to accomplish in life. Well, great. How do I do that? How do I start my business? How do I sell my business? How do I change my career? How do I, you know, you know, lead, lead my company better. How do I give back to the community all the how do I do and live the important things of life start to come up? 

Gary Baker  19:37
Well, then I said, this is great. Let's build an Experience Center that allows them to have a taste of that experience of something they want to do. It becomes like a catalyst. So, if they want to try something great, let's put it to the plan, understand it, but then let's just literally walk out of our wealth management doors and into our experience center doors and put it into practice. Make a connection. Launch a business you know, change your career. Meet with of our life consultants, or, you know, business consultants, or what have you. Let's put it into action. So, I care more about people. I care more about. I do care about how much money someone has, of course, right? And I want to grow that, of course, but I care 10 times more what they can do with it, and what that money can do, frankly, for others. So, it's not even just what it can do for them. That's the first step. That's the success part, but the fulfillment part is, but what can that success then do for others? And that's when the fulfillment comes in. So, if we can do all of that in one place,

Lisa Nichols  20:35
That's amazing. I love it. Well, you know, let's talk about this, because you just talked about starting a business. So, I mean, you really did step out, you know, with courage, you know, to start Undivided. Because you, I think you were like at some big brands like Merrill Lynch, Wells Fargo. What was it like, Gary, to step out of those roles and start, I mean, what, what kinds of things were going on in your brain and your heart? I mean, was there a fear there at all? Or were you like, you know, what's the worst that can happen?
Gary Baker  21:08
So, it's funny, they bring that up. So, one while I was at some of those larger firms, of course, they helped me become a great investment plan or financial planner. But it's just not their focus, because of the training development that has to go into relational planning, life planning, business planning, etc. So, it's just not a focus of what our industry does. So, I realized at some point in time, we can create a difference, you know, for our own value, of our own firms, and then hopefully take it to the industry. And so, but I realized I couldn't do it on our own or on my own, so we have one heck of a team. So, they were all courageous enough to say, Yep, let's, let's go do this together. But the main impetus for, for starting our own firm was so that we had the freedom to really open up this whole other lens of services. 

Gary Baker  21:49
And the problem is, it's, I mean, like I said, some of these larger firms do great at investment planning, financial planning, it's just they don't have the infrastructure, the training, development, you know, the, the, the lab, the innovation side. They just don't have the capabilities to do this real-life development stuff that that, you know, we were focused on. And so, we had to create our own kind of company to basically show that, one it's possible, which we've done, which has been an exceptional right. Over the last five years, but it's all because of the team that we have and that they all believed in this vision. And so, they used to tease me. I used to use this acronym called FIR, F. I. R. that everything, every conversation, needs to be financial, intellectual, financial value, intellectual value. And then relational value and relational value, to me, is where the experience of life starts. So, if you could relate to a client and then start to build a plan that relates to all of their, you know, monetary, you know, means etc. Now you're helping them do something with their money and live the life they want to. 

Gary Baker  22:44
So, it's been absolutely a team effort from day one, and I'm just grateful for a million things that we're doing here, but that's one of the things I can't thank our team enough for having the courage to go do it. Because now back to my point, when I was a child and going through all of that. I mean, yes, I'm scared of things. I'm nervous around things, but I just don't have that fear of, you know, I don't have a fear of going from a one deviation, normal, you know, predictable life, to an uncertain life, because I've already lived that, already have that armor, that gear. So, and that's where all the change happens. So, for me, it was a no brainer to go do it. I was going to do it anyway, regardless. But I know with certainty it would have never happened without our team. And so thankfully, we had some courageous team members that went on this journey with us.

Lisa Nichols  23:35
I mean, the, the, the thing that really makes you guys stand out. I love the whole FIR, you know, the financial, intellectual, relational, that whole, I mean, the way that I look at it, Gary when I think about it, it's a holistic approach to serving someone, it really is. It's a holistic approach, you know.

Gary Baker  23:59
And I will say this, and I do mean this, and this is something that's like most people that know me, like, there's certain hot buttons for me. I agree with you. It is a whole person approach. It is a whole life approach. But this is the thing that I am, I am like, most passionate about and protective of is this is back to the FIR. You can lose money and go make more money. You know, you can go to school and learn a new you know, you can the industry can change or whatever it is, and you can learn a new skill set, whatever it is. But relational means that you're getting someone's heart and you cannot, I can manipulate money. I can manipulate intellectual things. People do it all the time. You get into the business of manipulating hearts to make more money or create intellectual processes, and you're going down a dangerous path. 

Gary Baker  24:47
Because if you break someone's heart, they will remember that forever. But on the flip side, if you, if you inspire someone's heart, if you motivate someone's heart, if you care for someone's heart, and you genuinely can show that that's a whole different level of relationship. And so, I am overly protective of humans’ hearts and our clients’ hearts and what they are. Because my point is, if you're going to give me your greatest fears, your greatest dreams, your greatest visions, your greatest passions, your greatest doubts concerns, whatever it is. One, I want our team to be experts on helping you with that. But two, I don't take that lightly.

Lisa Nichols  25:30
That is, that is good, you know. And as you were saying that, Gary, the thought just occurred to me, you know, you can inspire, you can break right? And in both of those scenarios is a ripple effect to that. There's a law of multiplicity that comes into play, and that can either be for good or for bad.

Gary Baker  25:56
Now you're gonna make me tear up, because you Lisa, of all people on this earth, you get exactly what I'm talking about. And you know, the core of it, because you lead that way, and you've seen both sides. And as a business owner and people, we have to make these decisions, and culture matters, and people matter. And this is why people trust you and follow you and all of those things. I hate to say it, and I know how smart Greg is too. So, Greg is very smart, so maybe he's the brains, you know?

Lisa Nichols  26:21
He's the brains, he's on another level.

Gary Baker  26:24
He's on a whole another level. But here's the thing, they wouldn't follow you if it wasn't for your heart, and that's where trust comes from, because that's where empathy comes from. That's where authenticity comes from. They follow you, I follow you. We've been friends for, you know, 15 years now, or whatever it's been because of your heart.

Lisa Nichols  26:41
Well, I appreciate that. Well, I tell you what. I've got lots more questions for you, Gary, but we need to take a quick break, and we'll be right back with Gary Baker on the Something Extra Podcast.

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Lisa Nichols  27:23
So, welcome back, everyone to the Something Extra Podcast with my dear friend Gary Baker. We have been having so much fun. It's just been amazing, Gary, just to hear your wisdom, and we've been talking about a lot. You know, your firm is really designed to help their, your clients live exceptional lives. And we've talked about FIR, you know, all of those, the intersection of all of those. But let me talk to you a little bit about leadership in your team, because you do have an amazing team there, and you guys have received lots of accolades. Innovation firm of the year, humanitarian service award, and I know that you were Titan 100 so congratulations on that. But let me ask you, what is your philosophy when it comes to building high performance teams, Gary, how does it start?

Gary Baker  28:15
Oh, wow. So, you're asking a great question at a very interesting time in my life. So, I'm going to break down my life into kind of two components. So, the first half of life was this kind of entrepreneurial person that takes a different type of skill set. A lot of those childhood skill sets that I needed, the you know, resilience and just focus and drive and ambition and all of those things. That's, that's what helps, I think, an entrepreneur like just get through all the stuff that they need to get through to get to a point to where they feel like they're a business owner. And once you become a business owner, it changes the dynamic to where now to your point, which is dead on. It's not about you anymore. It's about the team, and it's about what the team can do, period. 

Gary Baker  29:05
And so, to create a high performing team, and that's what I love about where we are now as an entity. And so, I may have shared this with you, but we recently launched our life leadership and business consulting firm called Evolation. That is led by a gentleman named Paul Hott, which has been a phenomenal experience for me alone, because he is actually the one that is still training me on how to be a better leader, how to lead a high performing team, but ultimately how to build a better company. And so, it's great to have somebody that is right next door, that is taking all of my kind of life, planning, relational planning principles, et cetera, but turning it into this overarching business model. 

Gary Baker  29:44
And so, to be brief, what I have learned in the last probably 12 to 18 months is that first you definitely have to have a sense of purpose and drive so that people can rally around it. The second part is, once you have that in place. Then the next part is you have to the team has to have a personal connection to the purpose. Meaning, it can't just be the CEO's purpose or the entrepreneur's purpose. It has to be some way you have to understand your team members purpose and how their purpose is found in the overarching purpose. So, there has to be like a center, and then all circles around it kind of have to overlap, because that's what you want, is consistent. That's where engagement comes from. That's where passion drive all of those, you know, working later, working harder, etc., because you all want the same thing. So, there's the next part. 

Gary Baker  30:33
Then you get into that, you know, that notion of psychological safety, which means that it's a whole different environment than being an entrepreneur. An entrepreneur is about going fast and making a lot of pivots. A business owner is about going slow so you can go faster and arguably bigger, which means you have to voice concerns, questions, doubts, worries, all of those things. And so, I'll give you a perfect example. We just had our strategy meeting two, three days ago, and one of the people on the team openly shared, this is what I'm fearful of. This is what I'm concerned with. This is what's bothering me. And I told her afterwards, I said, I am so grateful that you shared all of those things, because now I know what you're thinking on the inside, and now we have to figure out a way to alleviate those concerns. So, she was seen, she was heard. We got better from it, but that's what you need to slow down to make sure, like, it's like you're building a foundation, because you want the bricks in the mortar to stick. And in order for it to stick, then you have to create that environment that you can make sure that you're properly setting the right brick at the right time without any hesitancy, because everybody's on board. But you have to create the environment that allows that to happen. 

Gary Baker  31:41
And then last but not least, you got to get into accountability and responsibility. And accountability and responsibility is because we have a purpose, because your purpose is embedded in this. And because we have this zone of psychological safety to air out any of your concerns, any of your questions, any of your doubts.  Well, then we all have to go to work and get our stuff done, and that's where a level of accountability responsibility takes hold. But if you're feeling the sense of purpose, you feel like you're connected to where the company's going, and have the same kind of vision, etc. And you feel open that you can share your concerns. Accountability and responsibility should almost be easy, because the only reason you don't take accountability for something, or responsibility is that you didn't do something in the first three tiers.

Lisa Nichols  32:26
That's so good. That is so good. Gary, I mean.

Gary Baker  32:30
Paul's good. Paul is doing well.

Lisa Nichols  32:34
That is, that is really good. I like that. Well, can you, can you tell me this? I mean, you've learned, as have I lots of leadership lessons. But what is one lesson, maybe Gary, that you learned the hard way?

Gary Baker  32:52
So, you know you, you only learn by reconciling the past and taking all of you know, the hardships. And so, again, as I mentioned before, back to my childhood, I'm fine with the ups and downs. I look at downs differently now. I look at downs as absolute learning environments. Because when you're going down, you're going down for a reason. It could be external, you know, the markets, the industry, you know, whatever it may be, or it could be something going on internally. But that actually is a healthy thing, because that is where you're basically reviewing the foundation of which your future growth is going to be built on. So, in a strange way, I avoided negative situations or downturns because I thought it slowed down the process. And when I was an entrepreneur, that's probably half true, but now that we're more of a business owner kind of mindset, I am constantly seeking those cracks in the foundation, or what we're missing, and how do we need to speculate, or whatever we need to do, which means I have to have more patience and grace and understanding and go slower. 

Gary Baker  33:52
And by doing that, I actually get to listen to people, hear their opinions, hear their thoughts, which is, it's, it's exceptional here, what other people's ideas can do to fill those cracks. So, it's not even like, here's a crack, and now I have to go fix it. It's here's a crack. How do you want us to fix it? And then they take ownership and responsibility in that. And so, what I've learned is, when you go fast, in theory, you may get a little bit further, but you miss everything along the road. It's like when you're driving 80 miles an hour down the road, you know everything's just whipping by you, and you never get to see the sights or have the conversations, because you're just so focused on the destination. And on the flip side, when you're going 20, 30, 40, miles down the road, you get to slow down, and even if you get into the passenger seat or the back seat, you get to see everything. You get to have the conversations you get to learn about people and so and there's a mix of this. And it kind of gets into something that, you know, we were talking about just on the break of leading this exceptional life and I'll just liken this to also leading an exceptional company. That the best way to help live an exceptional life and build exceptional company, be an exceptional leader is the combination of success and fulfillment. 

Gary Baker  35:05
So, self-success is drive ambition. It's the accolades, it's the awards, it's the monetary value, it's the results of doing the activity. You know, success or failure, fulfillment is everything you get along the way. It's everything that you even overcome along the way or experience. And one of our good friends, John O'Leary, and I were talking about our business, and I texted him about three years ago, and I and because we joked that we're building the arch like he builds one side, I build another side, except for his side with his movies coming out is going a lot faster my side. So, I got to really pick it up. But what I asked him was, I said, you know, over the last 10 years of us sharing all these war stories, like, did you enjoy it? Did you have fun? And he said, Of course I did. And at that moment, like I really didn't, and it was because I was so focused on success. I missed all the fulfillment. 

Gary Baker  35:56
And so, this back half of life, I will absolutely trade success for fulfillment, because oftentimes, I found myself successful by myself. I found my success, you know, without other people or just what I wanted. And I'm like, I'm not spending the next 10-15 years of my life alone and just what I want. And I'm, frankly, enjoying hearing from other people and learning from other people and growing our team and watching what they can do. And so, that that exceptional part the thing, and you know, even part of your, you know, something extra, do not lose sight of the fact that fulfillment should be equal to, if not even greater than, success. Otherwise, that success will not be worth it.

Lisa Nichols  36:35
That is so rich, Gary. I mean, because success without the fulfillment part is not an exceptional life. I mean, how many people do we know that the success, they've got, all the accolades they've got to the top. You know, to the summit, if you will, financially, all of these things. But if, if you get there, and to your point, there's no one that you've brought along with you. I mean, that's, it's not an exceptional life. It's not a fulfilled. So, I love talking about not just the destination, right? But it's enjoying the journey along the way. And I think that that's what John was talking about. So, I love, love that. And could not, could not agree with you more in that. But you know, sometimes it is a little bit of an oxymoron, though. Don't you think Gary, because so many leaders, they want to go fast. It's like, charge harder, charge harder, and they don't take time. Its kind of a little adage or a little saying along the way, take time to smell the roses. And take time to smell the roses along the way.

Gary Baker  37:46
And see, and this is where I don't know this for certain, but this is absolutely what we're focused on. You know, with our companies is, if you chase success with the hope that you get to fulfillment, which to your point of smelling the roses, is they say, take time. You know, like a marginal amount of time to smell the roses, but then you miss the whole rose. So, my point is, is, if you change your mindset to say, I want to have success so I can be fulfilled, I don't know that that actually is going to happen. However, if you can become successful at being fulfilled, it is actually and I'm living it and seeing it in the last couple of years, it's actually amazing to see how you actually get more success. It's just different. It's just different. But it's so I just, I want to be successful at being fulfilled.

Lisa Nichols  38:34
I love that. That's, that's beautiful, that's beautiful. So, let's say that again, if we can. So, if you are hoping to be successful, so you'll be fulfilled. It's really about being successful at being fulfilled. 

Gary Baker  38:51
That's it. And then I'll take it a step further. So, think about it as an equation, and kind of like an infinity cycle, to where you have success on one side and fulfillment on the other. And you want that infinity loop just, just be going back and forth and kind of feeding each other. Well, the cross line in the center is your purpose. And so, if you lose out of your purpose, your fulfillment bucket starts to get siphoned off. And that's what happens. It starts to get smaller and smaller, because the purpose starts to become monetary value, you know, something else. And any person that has a true purpose of that that leads to fulfillment. This is the difference, because I can have a purpose of making more money, well, that's just more success. But if I have a true purpose of becoming fulfilled, the only way you get fulfillment is by serving and helping other people.

Lisa Nichols  39:41
Amen. That's a mic drop, right there. Gary, that is a mic drop. Because that for me, I'm like, it's really not at the end of the day. It's about at the end of my life, it's going to be like, how many people, you know, did I make an impact on what's the difference that I made in people's lives, really, you know? It's going to be the currency, I think, you know, that we need to be looking at one of our life. 

Gary Baker  40:08
I appreciate that, and I take it two steps further just to, to honor you. Because I you know, I want your listeners to know that. I think they know that. I want you to know this that, I mean, Lisa in St. Louis, you like you're the example of that. I mean, I know like your business goes through ups and downs, that's the success measure. But what you do for other leaders, and I see how much involvement you have in different organizations, that's your fulfillment bucket. What people admire you for isn't technology partner success. What they admire you for is your focus on fulfillment, which, of course, leads back to success. You are running that infinity circle better than most people I've ever seen, because you stay true to your purpose and your faith. And so, that's what people are attracted to. It's like, how does she have success and fulfillment without actually saying those words? That's basically what they're saying, and you get to live it every day. And that's how most companies, I think, should be led. That's the focus of, you know, evolution of what we believe in is, is be successful so that you can be fulfilled. But the only way that you're going to do that is be successful at serving and helping other people. And that's the formula. 

Gary Baker  40:08
Well, thank you for that, Gary, thank you for that. That was those were very kind words. I appreciate it. So, you mentioned faith, and that is one way that you and I, a big way that we have connected. So, let me just ask you this, how is your faith guided you in both your business, your leadership, and, you know, the legacy that you want to leave in this world?

Gary Baker  41:46
Well, this just kind of hit me. So, I'll tell three stories to kind of summarize my life in like three phases. So, when I was younger, I did not have faith in my life, and I just had to figure out life, but I found faith in other people. And I didn't realize, like a lot of the people who took me under their wings or allowed me to stay with them, or, you know, was my baseball coach, or whatever it is that they did. I didn't realize that most of those people were faith filled, and that's why they were doing it, because that's just what faith filled peoples do. So, like those faithful people helped me grow into the person that I am today. Like every time I go to my grandparents’ house, we'd also go to church, you know, or they would talk about it in some way, shape or form. They weren't religious people at all, but it was a part of their routine. And so, faith filled people help other people. Like I just said, it's, it's the part of the process.  

Gary Baker  42:37
So, going to a Bible story because I didn't have faith growing up, didn't have faith growing up, didn't understand the Bible, didn't know how to pray, didn't understand any of those things. So, when I really came to faith, was the story of Lazarus where, you know, it's Jesus's friend, and when he found out that he had passed, he wept. And that's when I realized that when I was having my worst nights, you know, as a kid, that I would say, you know, I wouldn't wish this on their wish this on, you know, my worst night or my worst enemy. Not that there were horrendous nights, like I said, I was always fine, which is a blessing in some way. It's just the environment was chaotic. But I would say, you know, I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy. And I would think, why am I doing this by myself? How am I by myself? Well, it's just because I didn't have faith, and I didn't know that Christ is really sitting there right with me, that he is equally weeping with me, saying, This isn't right, this isn't who you are, this isn't what it's going to be about. But if you don't know him, you don't know that he's sitting right there next to you. And by hearing that story, and every time I hear the story of Lazarus, I realize he's weeping with us when we're going through those hard, challenging times. And so, faith started to become a part of my life. 

Gary Baker  43:42
Then growing, you know, in the 20s and 30s, and, you know, I started to realize, okay, this business model and quote, and when I put on my entrepreneur hat, could be successful. And every time that I lost my way, it's when the dial of purpose left serving somebody else, and went to growing the business model, or growing the, the, you know, the product or the model or the tool or the thing that I was doing that didn't have to do with people. That's when I when I took the dial off of purpose, that's when I would find myself alone. Because it was about me and what I can create and what I could do, and my ego and all of those things. And I realized, okay, I didn't know what was happening. Now, looking back, I do, and that's where, by having that benchmark of faith in your life, that would always bring me back to what this is about, which is serving people. 

Gary Baker  44:33
And so, now you get to this last stage, or this next stage, where I am now, of this success and fulfillment. God gives us all gifts, talents, all of these immeasurable, you know, things that we can do, he does not. I mean, I can say this with the level of certainty, and anybody, I think, who has you know in the sense of faith, it just doesn't make sense logically. He only gives you those tools so that you can serve other people, so you can help his people. And therefore, the more people you help, the more fulfilled you come from it, the more tools and skill sets he gives you. So, now in this next phase, I'm never going to learn lose that, that dial of purpose of serving other people, and I will always just rest on my faith that when I'm going through downturns or dealing with frustrations. Or you know, just different situations I may go through, I know that I have my faith right there next to me. I know when I'm losing my compass is when I take my eye off of serving other people. And I know that the end goal of anything that we build will be measured in how many people we've served, not in the monetary value that we've created.

Lisa Nichols  45:36
That's so good, Gary. That is so good. I always say my faith is what keeps me centered. That's what keeps me centered. That's what keeps me grounded, because my purpose is found through my faith and that is Jesus came to serve, right? Not to be served. He came to serve. He was the greatest example of that. And so, I could not agree with you more, when you when you lose sight of that, then that is when you know you get really off balance. And so, my faith is what really keeps me grounded and centered.


Gary Baker  46:18
And this is where, like, I'll just share, like, our individual stories. So, you see, like timing of faith and how it just shows up. So, I didn't have faith growing up, but I got, I received resilience and all of this other kind of tools. So, now that I have faith, I can utilize all of that kind of, you know, tools to help other people. You know, navigate their, their kind of downturns in life and the things that they're going through to help them kind of center to find faith or to do whatever. But the beauty is, is I also receive my faith by watching someone like you, and you know, and I do hope you really understand like the meaning you are to me and to probably all the people that you've interviewed and you're around. You were given a gift that your faith came to you early, and you stuck with it, though, to live it. That's what the courage is, is you received gift early, and then you stuck with it so that someone like me could receive the gift of faith later on in life. But then have a pathway to follow of what does it look like to live. And so, that's how the world's supposed to work, we learn from each other.

Lisa Nichols  47:20
Amen to that. I always say we were created for community, and we do, we learn from each other. That's why I love this podcast so much, Gary, because I get to have amazing people like you on and then get to share you with everyone else. We learn from each other, no doubt. Well, I've got just a couple more questions for you. You're an adjunct professor now at Wash U you earned your MBA. How does it feel now to give back in that way to your alma mater?

Gary Baker  47:48
So, I'll tell you a funny story that when I went to get my MBA there again, I was on the success track, which I wanted to get in there, get my MBA as fast as possible, and then leave. And my point is, is I didn't walk around campus. I didn't get to know a lot of people. I just wanted the degree so that I could show like I have some level of intellect, or I have some validation, or I have something I needed, something to put on my wall. And I did want to learn, and I did learn a lot from the school, but I didn't soak it all in. And so, now when I leave class, I end up talking to students for an hour and a half sometimes after class, because I'm soaking every minute of it in. And when I walk around the campus, sometimes I'll just look up at the buildings and the architecture and everything and go, I can't believe I get to teach here. It's amazing. But I also just reflect on I can't believe how much I missed when I actually was here as a student. And so back to that success and fulfillment, that's one thing I definitely remind the students in our classes, don't miss every single thing that's around you in these moments, because you're never going to get them back. And so, I'm just grateful that I have appreciation for the building and the environment and, you know, and ultimately, what I get to do now with the students.

Lisa Nichols  49:05
Well, I was gonna say, you know, what are you? What are you teaching the students? And I bet that's what you're teaching them. Gary is not to miss, you know, to slow down and just appreciate and enjoy the journey, right? 

Gary Baker  49:18
You nailed it. And so, it's a leadership class, and it's around like relational intelligence. But this is how I kind of position it. Is I really believe that leadership is taught the wrong way in our society, and this is what I mean by that is leadership is basically external. Which means you can go into Barnes and Noble or Amazon whatever, and buy 10 leadership books, and those are 10 people who are flat out gurus on their respective topics and content, etc. But they're trying to get you to believe in their version of leadership, or for you to understand, like how you can apply these different aspects you know, of their, their topics to you. Well, if you don't know who you are, you don't even know what to apply. And so, I teach leadership from the inside out. What I mean is I will spend two thirds of the class helping them understand every single thing that goes on inside their history, their generational influences, their parental influence, the societal influences, the forms of value that we're all chasing, their mindset. I want them to understand that they need to understand who they are, and then they write this in a document. It's like their own constitution. 

Gary Baker  50:28
And if you think about this, there's been, I think, 27 amendments to the Constitution. There's been 11,000 proposed. So, if our country, if our country, doesn't have a document, I'm not saying it's the best document. It's document. It's a working document. It continues to improve, but it's a pretty sound document that if we have this document, 11,000 have to go through this document or this filter, and it only produces 27 changes in someone's life. On the flip side, if they don't have that filter or that document for themselves, or our country, there's 11,000 proposed changes, and life just becomes chaos. And most people are living in chaos because they're getting 11,000 things, of ways to live their life, or 11,000 leadership, you know, tactics, techniques, or whatever it is to be a better leader. And they don't know what to apply it to, because they don't have their constitution, they don't have their leadership guide. 


Lisa Nichols  51:24
They don't know who they are. That is an amazing metaphor. That is an amazing, I love, that I won't forget that, Gary. Well, let me ask you this, this is called something extra. What do you believe is the something extra that every leader needs?

Gary Baker  51:42
That is the easiest question to answer on the face of the planet. You just have to love people. 

Lisa Nichols  51:52
Woof. I woof. I believe that you've got to genuinely love people. 

Gary Baker  52:02
That's all that matters. That's all that will matter, that's all that will be remembered. It's, it's the closest thing to Christ that we can get and live on this earth, and it's the thing that matters the most to every other human being on this earth.

Lisa Nichols  52:17
He was the perfect model for that, right? Gary, too. He gave everything,

Gary Baker  52:21
No more leadership books. Just read the Bible.

Lisa Nichols  52:23
Just read the Bible. He gave everything because of one thing, and that was love. His love for us. So, my friend, this has been so good. I appreciate you so much. And we just, we just need to spend more and more and more time together. That's what needs to happen. 

Gary Baker  52:42
Well, you need to stop doing so many things in the community and slow down just so you can, like, be, you know, in one place for more than 30 minutes. So, this is about the longest I've known you for 15 years, we talk all the time, and it's, you know, five minutes, you know, five second text or whatever. But I loved it. I look forward to it, Lisa, you are a fine human being, and I'm just grateful to have you in my world. So, thank you for being you.

Lisa Nichols  53:04
Absolutely. Thank you, Gary.

Announcer  53:08
Thank you for listening to today's show Something Extra with Lisa Nichols as a Technology Partners Production Copyright Technology Partners Inc. 2019. For show notes, or to reach Lisa, visit tpi.co/podcast. Don't forget to leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Google Play, or wherever you listen. 



*Please note, the preceding transcription has been automatically generated and should be used for informational purposes only.