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Unpopular Celebrities. Learn all about leadership, finance and life - and a lot more. Follow your hosts of the UPC Squad along with guests as we take a deep dive into different topics. Our focus is on leading people! Come take a journey with us and discover how you are also an unpopular celebrity. "I may be not be everything to everyone but I am something to someone."
Unpopular Celebrities Podcast LLC
What Your Commander Wishes You Knew About Trust
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We explore the dynamic evolution of military leadership with Major General Thomas "Tank" Sherman, who shares insights on commissioning sources, mentorship impact, and the critical commander-chief relationship from his 30-year career.
• The significant legacy of Chief Master Sergeant Sal DiMatteo, who established NCO academies in Europe and mentored a young cadet who would become a general
• Differences between Air Force Academy, ROTC, and OTS commissioning sources - each providing unique strengths to the officer corps
• USAFA's four-year development model progressing from followership to command positions
• The vital role of Academy Military Trainers in exposing cadets to NCO leadership before commissioning
• Why the commander-chief relationship must be built on mutual trust, vulnerability, and respect
• How transparent leadership during stressful times builds stronger connections with subordinates
• The importance of focusing on current responsibilities rather than career advancement
• Sherman's upcoming role as AFIMSC Commander and excitement about contributing to installation support challenges
Show Introduction
Speaker 15, 4, 3, 2, 1, GO.
Speaker 3Let's go, let's go, let's go. Unpopular celebrities, as everybody's getting in the building for a Thursday night podcast Cheese. Oh, I ain't got my stream labs up.
Speaker 2You got caught short. You got caught short partner.
Speaker 3That's crazy. Why my stuff not up? That's crazy.
Speaker 2Everybody got to have all your gears squared away. Partner.
Speaker 3There you go. There you go Thursday, thursday or Wednesday. Shoot today's Wednesday, Wednesday podcast. I got to get my days together. Every day seems like a Friday, maybe for me. What's up with you? That's so funny.
Speaker 2That is true.
Speaker 3Anyway, won't delay any further. We got this guest for a little over an hour today, so I won't want to delay it any further. Uh, if y'all read as y'all coming into the show, uh, we'll get a lot more people, as we always come on as per usual, waiting for the algorithm to catch up. But uh, we have a special guest. Uh, two time, two time, two-time, two-time. I ain't got my echo together or nothing. Two-time Guest to the show of Unpopular Celebrities.
Speaker 2You know you should have. Let me just do it, man.
Speaker 3Okay, go ahead, go ahead, you can do it All right.
Speaker 2Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Unpopular Celebrities the podcast that is for you. We highlight shows every single week, or every other week on Sundays. You catch us on YouTube. You catch us on Facebook, instagram, all your social media and Apple Podcasts. But enough about that. We got a special treat for you today. We have a two-time guest in our midst. I'm sure you know him and, for those that may not know him, you're going to get to know him. Today we have the one and only Major General, thomas Tank Sherman, in the house.
Speaker 1Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to the building. Welcome to the building Right on General.
Speaker 3That's why he's on the show to pick up where I, where I fumble at sometimes I fumble. I need somebody to pick up.
Speaker 1That's what he's there for welcome, sir, welcome great being here with you guys again oh, I love to have you back.
Speaker 3It's excellent to have you back. Appreciate the time that we're taking out for our day to bring you back. First of all, we got to talk about the background, because it looks immaculate and before we got on I thought it was an ai background. I really did.
Speaker 1The background is phenomenal yeah, this, this is pretty good living out here on the united states air force academy. So this is, I mean, housing is set up, dynamite, I mean. We're just right in the middle of a forest and so I would like I was telling you before. I was sitting having coffee the other morning and probably a 300 and something pound bear just came walking on the other side of the fence just minding his own business, just cruised on by. I just watched him go. There's just all kinds of stuff we got out here Wild turkeys, deer, elk, bobcats, mountain lion bears. It's a. It's a fantastic place.
Speaker 3And it lion bears, it's. Uh, it's a fantastic place and it sounds like the weather's beautiful, because out here we're we just hit 120 today, so we're a little warm. We're a little warm out here yeah, today is today.
Speaker 1Is that perfect colorado weather? I mean it's it's dry right now at this time of day I think we're like not even quite 80, but we're getting close Very jealous. Yeah, it's pretty dynamite, right.
Speaker 3But, like we said, second time on the show is great. First time was phenomenal. We learned a lot about you and everybody can go back and rewatch as we move into the second version of you Having you on here.
Welcoming Major General Thomas "Tank" Sherman
Speaker 3So, like we said, we appreciate you coming on Unpopularpopular celebrities as we still try to keep this train going so I'm proud of you guys and glad to be a part of this yeah, but uh, first thing I'm talking about, I know, uh, you said that you are only going to be here for today and then you're taking a trip tomorrow, kind of a trip that nobody really wants to take ever. But, um, you know these things happen and you know, just kind of want you to go ahead and talk about what kind of what happened and sorry already for the passing and kind of just going from there.
Speaker 1Yeah, thanks, pete, I really appreciate it. So I think people have have heard me before when I've spoken and anytime any folks that have seen me kind of out and about you know I oftentimes really talk about how incredibly proud I am to be married to a chief mass sergeant's daughter. And you know I'm kind of sorry to inform and we've been living through this for the past couple of weeks my father-in-law, chief Mass Sergeant Sal DiMatteo, passed away here a couple of weeks ago after a pretty long battle with Parkinson's disease. And you know we at least inside feel a sense of peace that he's not suffering anymore. And the reason why they made such an incredible impact on me is, first off, my father-in-law was the first chief I ever knew. Lori and I dated while I was at the Air Force Academy and so all the mentorship that was taking place around the DiMatteo dining room table helped to shape me and in a great part her mom and dad helped to guide me into the security police career field, because what they were instilling in me was like the, the value of the enlisted force, and you know if if you'll permit me to just kind of share just a just a couple snippets on just the contribution he made. So he started out as a CE guy at a strategic air command base in Salina Kansas, you know, working in the CE squadron at a B-47 base. He ended up doing two tours in Vietnam one tour there with Red Horse and the other tour with Prime Beef and I mean they were at places like Tan Son Nhat building revetments and, you know, fortifying the base and obviously anybody in our career field knows the importance of Tan Son Nhat. What was wild is when I took my dad back to Vietnam in 2016 and we landed at Tan Son Nhat because that's the international airport and, no kidding, like the revetments were still there and the Vietnamese Air Force still had fighter aircraft parked in it.
Speaker 1But I think where his contribution was really laid in is he got into PME completely and when they were stationed out at Sembac Air Base back in the 1970s, he was working at the leadership school there doing what would have been equivalent to kind of ALS right now. It was a little bit different back then, but I'd say equivalent to ALS and Chief Gaylord was the chief mass sergeant for USAFE at the time. So he was the SEL for USAFE and he went and pulled my father-in-law out of the leadership school and said, sal, I need you to put an NCO Academy together for me. So, no kidding, chief Gaylord gave my father-in-law like a line of accounting. He got a team together and my father-in-law set up the Kissing NCO Academy up at Capone in Germany in the 1970s. So the buildings that you guys are, that the people have been in the location, everything was all a part of his doing back then. And he opened up a second NCO Academy at RAF Upwood in the 1980s, right by Alconberry, doesn't exist anymore. At RAF Upwood in the 1980s, right by Alconbury it doesn't exist anymore.
Speaker 1What was pretty cool is when I was a training group commander at Lackland, chief Gaylor was talking at our wing awards banquet and he's got a memory on him like a steel trap. So I went up to talk to him and I said, hey, chief, I'm going to throw a name at you that you have not heard in a long time. And I said do you remember Sal DiMatteo? And in typical Chief Gaylor, of course I know Sal DiMatteo.
Tribute to Chief Master Sergeant Sal DiMatteo
Speaker 1He did blah, blah, blah and like goes through his whole biography and I said hey, chief, I just wanted to let you know I married his youngest daughter. I remember you when you were just a little girl, I mean just the whole nine yards. And where I thought it was really neat was the testament to the Air Force family, and so he actually had Lori stand up and said, hey, I want to talk to you about an Air Force family, and just kind of recounted the story of my father-in-law and mother-in-law, and Lori is now, you know, married to a training group commander here and the legacy of that family just continues. And so, you know, those are the kind of things that just really warm my heart, but really just wanted to kind of give my father-in-law, who was just so, so important to me, just a little bit of tribute here on Unpopular Celebrities as we go forward, and thanks for permitting me the time to do that.
Speaker 3No, thank you for being vulnerable and sharing those moments and, of course, my you know my condolences to yourself and, of course, miss Lori, always a member of my heart and my family. So for Miss Lori as well, I really feel bad and for you as well, I have to go face that. But, like you said, got to move on and moving on from it and hopefully he's in a better place.
Speaker 2Definitely in a better place, Absolutely yeah, definitely he's in a better place, definitely in a better place and absolutely, yeah, definitely, yeah, chief, you know it's. It's what a way to leave a legacy like that behind. I mean, oh yeah, you are bob galer. I'm sure everyone knows as a defender himself. They call me a security policeman back in the day, but they get the cosign from the bob galer who also passed away about a year or two ago yeah and then to set up a enlisted professional military education center to help enlisted members get the type of education they need to be better leaders.
Speaker 2And, to this day, to still have folks go in and out those facilities, oh yeah, so what a way to leave a legacy behind. So so again, my likewise my condolences to you, ms Lori, and we're going to celebrate his memory, the things he's done while he was here.
Speaker 3Yeah, thanks, safe travels, definitely to Kansas and everything. Yeah, as we're moving on with this, it's kind of hard to transition to. Moving on to the academy. So that's where you're at now. Right, you're the vice superintendent of the academy. Uh, so that's where you're at now. Right, the vice superintendent of the academy? Uh, you said you went to the academy academy graduate and I just want to share me personally, growing up in modesto california, I never heard of the air force academy except for the football team. That was the only time the air force academy came up was the football team, so I didn't know how to get into the air force academy or anything. And now, being in the military for more than 20 years, I learned a lot about Academy grads and the Academy grads that we bring in. I just want to hear kind of the differences between the Academy and the OTS route and how to get into either one.
Speaker 1Absolutely yeah, I'm happy to share a little bit of that. First off, wow, what an high and high school to get here. This place helped to give me the foundation that I needed to be the officer and the leader that I am right now, and it was because of how it was set up, the exposure to stress, the fact that they would give us challenge, sets and scenarios and even just life that was beyond what you thought you could possibly do and they take you all the way up to that point where you think you are at your breaking point and then all of a sudden you go past it and it just the sense of encouragement that it gives you self-confidence, courage, those things like that I mean. For me, this was absolutely a pivotal part of my development, both as an officer and as a person, and so, obviously, getting a chance to be back here in this capacity, lori and I have been trying to come back here for 20 years because I just really had this obligation to want to come back and be a part of the development of these future Air Force leaders, and we can get into that development a little bit. But let me get to your question future Air Force leaders and we can get into that development. But let me get to your question.
Speaker 1I really think the three commissioning sources that we have the United States Air Force Academy, officer Training School and Reserve Officer Training Corps all three of them are incredibly important Because what the three of them give us is officers that come from a slightly different perspective in that developmental process. So if we look at the Air Force Academy, it is really, you know, to use the term all-consuming might sound a little bit negative, it's not. You are vested, immersed in this environment nearly 24 by 7, you know, with a little bit, you know, occasionally, on the weekends or passes or things like that, but I mean you are immersed in this and the opportunities that you have here that are available to you that the taxpayers are helping us to utilize to fund soaring, and we have, you know, cadets have an opportunity to soar, get a chance to go out and you know, free fall, parachute out of an airplane and get your parachute wings to learn survival skills and so forth. So a lot of opportunities that you are immersed in. That is a part of the training design when I think sometimes the feedback comes back. You know, for those of us that have lived it or people that are receiving these officers, is that where they've got a really great foundation in professional and experiential development. Where they might be lacking is on personal development, because you are in such a controlled space that a lot of the life lessons that you're learning at a place like Reserve Officer Training Corps so if you're going to ROTC you're immersed in a more traditional university environment with an Air Force detachment that helps to do that training, but you're not immersed in it every day all day long, and so what that does is it provides a little bit of a difference in balance in that a lot of the life maturity that is being developed by those particular cadets coming out of that program I think sets them up in a different way from their academy counterparts, in that they've gotten a chance to understand the experience of life, how you're living on your own and just maybe kind of how you're interacting on a human level in the world.
Speaker 1Where OTS I think is incredibly important for us is that OTS is often a venue for people that served and then they come in through officer training school already with a degree in hand, maybe some professional you know experience on the outside or even some you know some of the skilled trades and things like that that they are now transitioning and carrying that into the Air Force and Space Forces.
Speaker 1So what I like about this triad of commissioning sources is you get a very unique experiential difference between the three that when you're coming together and bringing these lieutenants at the place they need to be at the moment we put those bars on them.
Speaker 1I think the important aspect of that is that now we've got not just a cohort of officers who've all had the same experience, but now we've got officers that can relate to our airmen and our NCOs at a very different level and each of them brings a unique skill set with them.
Speaker 1Now, to get into those locations, officer Training School has its own application process, which you go through AETC and you can actually work through your Air Force recruiter on that. The Air Force Academy conversely, by actually just accessing the website for our admissions office, there's a whole process by which you'll go through to send in your initial letters of interest and then that opens the door to communication, because for the academy you've got to get a congressional nomination prior to getting accepted to the institution. So there's a multi-step process that you need to go through to get here. And then ROTC as well has its own particular websites and apps that you can access. The part of getting that application turned into the ROTC offices, going through their screening process, getting accepted to both the university and ROTC, and then that's how the scholarship process works for them.
Speaker 2Right. So, I have to ask. In my travels I've always heard the stigma between Academy grads, ots grads and ROTC grads. Is there a stigma or is it like just a perception? What do you think?
Speaker 1So I think that it was more so, probably 30 years ago. I think our Air Force has matured considerably from the time that I graduated and so, by the way, I just hit 30 years a couple of weeks ago.
Speaker 3Congratulations.
Comparing Different Officer Commissioning Sources
Speaker 1That is something else. I think our air force has matured because I think that the stigma was more so than with the whole ring knocker mentality and things like that for academy graduates and, and I mean some of that still exists today. But I but I think that that stigma was a little bit more prevalent and I think that there was very much a little bit more of a I would say it was a little bit more of an adversarial approach than it was maybe nowadays a little bit of healthy rivalry. I think that post 9-11, and I think that our conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan, where officers had to depend on each other, oftentimes working various sectors I mean think about Bagram. At Bagram I had a complete mixed bag of officers I had OTS graduates, I had ROTC graduates and I had academy graduates and they had to work together in their sectors and they had to work together inside and outside of the wire and I think the important part was is that they saw themselves as brothers and sisters leading the fight and I think that those experiences helped to bring down, I think, the negativity of the stigma. Nowadays, I'd put it more in that healthy rivalry and I think that's OK. We can, we can all have a little bit of fun with each other, you know, make some jokes here and there. I think that's all goodness, but I think that that stigma has changed.
Speaker 1Now what I will say because people say, well, which one's, which one's better than the other. At the end of the day, my heart's here because that's my experiential journey but what I will say is that it comes down to the character of the leader. It comes down to the character of the leader, and that character that that person will carry with them is going to determine which commissioning source did right by them and how are they using the skills to help be the best, most sincere leader they can. For the airmen and guardians that deserve them and I use the term deserve very deliberately it's not just the leaders that they need, it is the leaders that they deserve and we have an obligation at places like this ROTC detachments and OTS down at Maxwell we have an obligation to give them our absolute best. Fair, I get a little fired up about, clearly. I get a little fired up, yeah.
Speaker 3Love it. So if anybody has any questions in chat, please fire them in there. If it's a good question, we'll ask them. If it's not, we'll ignore it, but move it on.
Speaker 1And our viewers are dropping. You can't are dropping for anything but being on oh, and then chief jackson's in the building.
Speaker 3The first one, of course. But a real quick question. You said about, uh, people in the academy. They might not have the personal growing up. Uh, as far as the academy grads, uh, in that aspect of the OTS, you know, maybe came from the enlisted side and in basic training. For me it's all about teamwork and building each other up and, you know, kind of breaking us down as a unit and then building us up as a unit. Uh, I know you had an amazing father-in-law that you just talked about. That probably helped you with a lot of those analogies as far as enlisted and how we handle what's going on in the academy now to try to bridge that gap with personalities and try to relate.
Speaker 1So I think let me kind of define that a little bit more. I think, when I'm talking about maybe some of those life skills, I think is what it's more about.
Speaker 1Almost kind of like you know how we've got. You know you've got A1Cs that are in the dorm and they're on a meal card, and so they've got a roof over their head, they've got a meal card that they can go to the dining facility with, and so a lot of those things rightfully so are taken care of for them. Likewise for our cadets they've got we've got the dormitory complex here, both at Vandenberg and Sijon Hall. We've got Mitchell Hall, which is our dining facility, and so those things are at their fingertips and it's a part of the program. They're provided for you and so it's about okay. How do I make sure I'm paying my rent properly? How do I set automatic payments up on my bank accounts? How do I make sure my insurance is getting paid, and all of those kind of things? That's the area where we see some of the biggest learning curves when they're out. Now, from an interpersonal skills standpoint here, that is a pretty important foundation on what we're trying to teach them through what we're developing as a four-class system. And so when you're looking at a four-class system, you're looking at what we call our four degrees, which are our freshmen. What we want them to focus on is followership. That's it. We've got to build that foundation of what it means to receive an order, execute the order, circle back around when the order is complete, ask for questions or clarifications if they're not clear, and learn how to have the humility to learn how to follow the next year.
Speaker 1In our sophomore year, our three degrees, we're focusing them kind of think of it as like the ALS kind of time frame for them is that we're focusing them on how do we teach you to be a frontline supervisor and you are responsible for one individual. That individual is one fourth class cadet, one freshman cadet that you are responsible for. So what we're now trying to teach them is okay. How do you deal with managing both? You know corrections and accountability standards, helping them if they're having a challenge with their homework or whatnot. How do we get them to the right resources so that we're teaching that really a 19 or 20 year old like legitimately, how do you care for the life of one human being?
Speaker 1Then we go to what we call our two degree, our junior year, and we're starting to teach them about NCO and senior NCO ship. How do you start having responsibilities for programs like the squadron stand of our program, you're the stand of our NCO. Let's say you're the squadron first sergeant, let's say that you're an element leader or a flight sergeant, and so now we're teaching you on a grander scale. How do we start teaching you team sized leadership? How do we start teaching you program responsibility, program responsibility? And then how do you manage that so that you are educating as an NCO, educating your sophomore, your three-degree cadets, how to be a frontline supervisor?
Speaker 1Meanwhile you're also looking up the chain to the first-class cadets, the seniors, on legitimately in their officership roles. What do they need to be provided for? Advice, guidance and support? And then that transcends to the last year in which we've got our first class cadets, our seniors, and that is about officership and command. And so we're looking on large scale leadership, squadron command. Our NCAA division one athletic teams, like our team captains get squadron commander credit for that because that is such an important aspect of leadership on those fields. Uh, you know large club leadership and stuff like that, like that's how we start to teach this officership level at that place. So that's kind of like the developmental model that we've been working through over the last year here. And so I'll pause if you've got any questions or if I could do any clarification.
Speaker 3No, no, spot on Perfect. I didn't know about the credits that they get for being D D one college captains. That's spot on.
Speaker 2Yeah, that's spot on so how do you get selected for that position? Does it? Do they just select you, or is there a process?
Speaker 1The coaches have a process. So we've got three main pillars here at USAPHA. We've got the military training pillar, which is focused on the professional development side Almost think of it as the session training, the PME side of the house. Then we've got the academic pillar, which think of it as the university side. So every cadet that graduates graduates with a bachelor of science degree in one of about 30 different academic majors that we offer and what we need. What we're trying to do in that aspect is like how do we teach academic prowess and critical thinking skills here? Because the better that we can expose them to critical thinking skills, the more agile they're going to be when we have them, you know, when we commission them and send them out to the field. And then the last area is our academic pillar, and so you want all of these pillars to be more or less equal. At different times some will raise and lower. But the athletic pillar what I like about it is the athletic pillar teaches a couple important things. Number one it teaches a lot of self-confidence.
Speaker 1The athletic pillar teaches a couple important things.
Speaker 1Number one it teaches a lot of self confidence.
Speaker 1Number two what the athletic pillar teaches is it teaches people how to go from one second to being a leader on the field if you're running the play, to immediately having to go into a support role as a follower and switch back and forth.
Speaker 1And I think that's important for them to understand is that the reality is, while the play is in progress, you can't always be the leader, because sometimes the leader is going to avail themselves at the moment because they're at a critical point in the play and they either take the ball, kick the ball, you know, hit the puck or whatnot, at the right time that it's needed, and so that's how switching back and forth, I think, teaches them a little bit of humility and it also teaches them some leadership agility. So for our ncaa teams, our coaches are an important part of that, our athletic department staff is an important part of that, and the players are an important part of that, and so that's how those team captains get availed in one of our about 30 ncaa teams that we have here wow, very interesting yeah, I didn't play ncaa while I was here, but I probably the favorite intramural sport that I played, because every cadet's gonna have to do something like there is.
Speaker 1There is an important leadership aspect that's learned there. I love rugby. The the first season I played rugby while I was here. I had no idea what the rules were or what I was doing. I just listened to the direction that I was given. And then the second year I was playing it I actually got a little bit more finesse for the game and I had. I had a really great time with it.
Speaker 2So since you play rugby, I would assume you're a fan of the coveted tush push play.
Speaker 1Wow, that is just. I'm not sure that play was around back in the early 90s. I feel like that's like an early thousands play. Honestly, you know what, Jerry?
Speaker 2Quickly I want to ask you. You said now you know your call sign is Tank. Yes, but you said you didn't play Division I football when you were in the academy. Is that correct?
Speaker 1Right.
Speaker 2I did not. So how did you get tanked Like tank I'm thinking linebacker Right. What happened there?
Speaker 1So you know, I think it's a couple it's a little bit of a play on words and a couple different things. So I actually got the call sign of tank when I was in Afghanistan as the Defense Force commander out there in 12 to 13. And it was actually the wing commander and vice wing commander that gave me this name. So I think it was twofold. Number one it's a little play on the Sherman tank.
Speaker 1Number two I think there was a little bit of personality involved because at the end of the day there wasn't going to be a challenge or a problem that if I just need to, we wasn't going to be a challenge or a problem that if I just need to, we're just going to roll through it, and so I. So I think they kind of saw a couple sides of that, you know, from the personality side to a little bit of a play on words. But I'm proud of that because. Number one I got it from a couple of pretty respected aviators that I had a chance to work for, so getting a call sign from them was a big deal. Number two for the reasons that they gave it and what we were doing in Afghanistan, I think the name really applies even more so to the squadron than the individual, and so I'm happy to carry that around with me, and the funny thing about it is like that's how everybody in the Pentagon knows me.
Speaker 3No, that's cool. Yeah, we have Alexis Oliver. She's one of my lieutenants in my squadron. She's an Academy grad, I think 2022, I believe she's going to kill me if that's wrong but yeah, 2022 Academy grad. So I always like to talk to her about the Academy Because, like I told you, for me it's a foreign place. This thing is like the Wizard of Oz, like I didn't know it existed and even what goes on there. But I got to ask what's the percentage of people that come in there that want to be pilots or that have the aspiration to be pilots, thinking that it's the Air Force Academy? They're probably thinking, oh, I get the five planes or be pilots.
USAFA's Four-Year Leadership Development Model
Speaker 1You know, I think we've got a pretty high percentage. You know, and as we talked last time, you know, even from my journey, like that was, that was what brought me here, and we we understand especially, you know, especially during those times, what puts the Air and Air Force. But I want to put a fine point on something this isn't just the Air Force Academy, it's also the Space Forces Academy, right, and so we are. We are graduating both Air Force officers and Space Force officers here, which I think is an important piece. You know, I would say so just kind of, you know, if I was just to kind of give this a wag and just kind of using anecdotal on how many cadets I talked to and things like that. I mean I think we're looking at at probably 60% or so coming in or are having aspirations of going to pilot training. What's interesting is that when I came in back in the nineties it was probably, like you know, 95% Right, what, what I and that goes to that whole maturing part that I talked about that I think that there has been. The Air Force has done a very good job on sharing the importance of leadership in a variety of different roles and I think what we've also done is we've done a better job on highlighting the leadership of our combat support officers and our combat service support officers and how they play in to the fight. I also think that, again, the post-9-11 environment was a place that our leadership could be showcased in a way that I don't think it was showcased during the Cold War, and so, because of that, we've got cadets that are coming in even more informed. You know the Internet and a variety of different apps and environments that they can gain from, I think is helpful. So they're looking at things like you know acquisitions, scientific career fields, engineering, things along those lines and they see their place as contributing to the fight by being a part of one of these career fields that was lesser known in the years past.
Speaker 1Matter of fact, we just brought on six security forces officers this year. We actually had them over the house and had local commanders and chiefs and stuff like that from the front range area. Lori and I cooked up a big meal for them. We actually gave them their first berets. Oh, that's so cool. Yeah, we gave our first berets and told them hold on to this. This is our gift and faith to you, and you take this with you to tech school, because that's the beret we want you to put on your head Right, and what we wanted to do was to welcome them in as a family and have them understand like that is probably our career field.
Speaker 1Superpower is really having this aspect on, like family trains together, they fight together, they have a great time together, they bicker together, like all of the things that families do, but at the end of the day, you're family and and you'll do anything for your family. And what was neat was seeing cadets coming into the house. That may have been a little bit apprehensive. Some asked for it and and we had a couple that had a little farther down on the list they still put it and then they left and they were glowing. And we got feedback from the squadgers who were like hey, you know, cadet so-and-so came back and she is just motivated now about getting into the career field because the things that you were talking with her about she had, she had no idea I'll say you know, in a lot of career fields officers are important, especially lieutenants.
Speaker 3But in security forces, the importance of that officer, especially as a lieutenant, to ride around with the master sergeant or flight chief and get to know what we do on an operational level and learn from the bottom and then make their way up to commanders and be able to command. They already know what it's like to be on the gate as we tell our airmen. We tell our airmen like I didn't just grow up in this flight chief role, I actually had to do the stuff as well.
Speaker 1I think lieutenants, especially in security forces, very vital, very, very vital and and that's I think I think it's so key and that's why I am a huge fan of our lieutenants going to security forces groups out the gate, because getting a chance to be that flight commander and have like that level of leadership responsibility right out the gate is huge and it ties directly into kind of. Our charge here at USAFA is that the Air Force has told us is that we have got to create lieutenants that are ready to lead on day one, and day one is literally the day after we commission them. That is day one. Day zero is the day we commission them. Day one is the day after that. Now are they going to have the technical skills of the specialty they're going into? No, but did we at least train them, did we at least give them the foundation of leadership so that if put in a situation, they would at least not be unfamiliar and have a little bit of self-confidence, a little bit of the character, a little bit of the courage that they need to have that, should they be placed in that position, that at least they've had the exposure on leading through the four years that got them there, and that's something that we really hit that drum hard with the cadets that are here.
Speaker 1And I'll jump in with one more thing real quick I forgot to mention. There is a program here called the academy military trainer, the amt. These are ncos and senior ncos that are picked to come here and be helped be responsible as the command team to a cadet squadron. When I was a cad I was fortunate because I was dating a chief's daughter, so I was getting some of that mentorship around the table.
Speaker 1But not every cadet has that, and so we didn't have NCOs in the squadrons and so a lot of cadets were leaving having never experienced what the NCO Corps does, let alone the value they bring to the force, what the NCO Corps does, let alone the value they bring to the force, and so unfortunately, they're getting that exposure after they're commissioned. Some of them may not even get exposure to NCOs until well after they're into their first unit, you know, at a flying squadron or something like that, and that is way too late to understand the value of what the NCO Corps brings. So now, having an academy military trainer in every single cadet squadron means that cadets are getting exposure to the NCO Corps right out the gate. We also have MTIs that are here. They'll come out of an assignment at Lackland and then they'll come here to USOFA and the MTIs help bring that professional edge to things, especially during basic cadet training. So having this incredible cohort of NCOs that are here, I think it makes the academy a much, much better place.
Speaker 3Yeah, such an awesome position. I actually wish I would have got that AMT position, but just Simon didn't line up. But everything works out, yeah.
Speaker 2Yeah, it's good you didn't.
Speaker 3I knew you were going to say that I couldn't see it. I couldn't see it and I was like, why did I suck myself up?
Speaker 2They gave you your call sign. What call sign? Since you know him so well, you're about to do his retirement. Shameless plug.
Speaker 3What call sign would you?
Speaker 2give him.
Speaker 1I had too many calls. So there's so many calls, but the one that comes to mind and this may come up back back in the when, when we get a chance to do his retirement he's like does he work in this office? Yeah, is he working? Does he work here? No, no, he doesn't.
Speaker 3I thought you were going to say ubiquitous that's Is he working? Does he work here? No, he doesn't. I thought you were going to say ubiquitous.
Speaker 1That's what I remember. That is a good one, Because you were ubiquitous Whether you asked to be there or not. Yeah.
Speaker 3I was just like yeah.
Speaker 1I'm there, I love it, I love it. It's crazy. I mean you got to ask. You got to ask Mark Velasquez. Oh yeah, is he up there too, mark Velasquez?
Speaker 3He did say that a couple of times. When we first met he was like does he work here? I just love it.
Speaker 2I see your confidence is not going to be very long about Pete sir doing the ceremony that's crazy.
Speaker 3Luckily, chief counsel will be there, yay.
Speaker 2Right off the bat, I'll be tame.
Speaker 1We'll get the shout out from the crowd.
Speaker 2Okay, but seriously. So I want to. I want to circle back to earlier. You said you were married to a, your lovely bride, who was the daughter of a chief, and so it's clear that everything you learn from her father as the chief affected your career, different lessons, you learn around the table, things of that nature. And so you also said in the academy they bring in senior NCOs and NCOs kind of intermix or help train the cadets to get them exposed to the enlisted. So two part question yeah, tell me, in your thoughts and your time of travels being in 30 years, what, what makes a chief important to you? And then two, what do you feel, if any, is something Chiefs are missing now that could make them more effective for airmen today?
Speaker 1So I think the thing that has always resided for me is that in anybody in the squadron, the group, the wing, there is nobody I should be able to trust more, there is nobody that I can be more vulnerable to, there is nobody that I should be more open to than my chief above anybody else, above my commander, above anybody else, that chief for me is the most trusted person in that organization, and so for me that's. That chief for me is the most trusted person in that organization. And so for me that's I mean for folks that know me, know, I mean Chief Steve Arbona and I at Wright-Patterson oh man, I mean what an amazing, amazing human being to have as your chief. And what was great is that you know, steve, and I went back, you know, 15 years before we were serving in that capacity, and I knew that Steve was going to have all of those, all of those qualities. And I think it's just like if you can't have a trust relationship with your chief, the entire organization will see it and they will feel it. And so I think that that's the important part is both like, the commander needs to have the humility to be vulnerable to chief, the chief needs to be able to have the sincerity to be honest to the commander and be the chief. To be able to have the sincerity to be honest to the commander and be the chief but also know that if that chief isn't helping to foster that relationship and if that chief is building their own kind of fan base in the organization without taking in consideration that, like when the chief and the commander together, holy cow, it is amplified by a magnitude of 10. Because that visible image of two people together that like each other, that the organization knows they get along, that when they speak there is power in what they say together and power in what they say individually.
Speaker 1I think that where it's often a challenge is you have got to have enough self-confidence in that role to A know your value but also know how the value is vectored and how your relationship is important. And I think sometimes, just like anything else I would make the same criticisms of a colonel who's looking for one star, or like an 05 who's really looking to get colonel or so along the line is that you become so target focused on what that next position is either. Hey, I'm a baby colonel, I need to make group, I've got to do whatever I've got to do to make wing, or I've got to do whatever I've got to do to make command chief, and now I got to be at a tier two. And then, pretty soon, you start getting consumed by what's next and you stop paying attention to the people that need you, that are right in front of you. And I think that's where both senior officers and chiefs will fail is, all of a sudden, their vision comes from the point where they're focused on what their responsibility is and what they're being asked to do and next thing you know, their eyes are well up over the horizon saying, yeah, but what do I got to do to make tier two? Or what do I got to do to get on the candidate list? Or what do I got to do to become a wing commander?
The Commander-Chief Relationship
Speaker 1And you start asking the questions. If you have to ask the question, what do I have to do to be a wing commander? What do I have to do to be a command chief? You're asking the wrong questions, because how it should be is I am. How can I be the best I can for the people that need me right now? And if I don't care what happens after that, then my sincerity and my leadership will be seen, and that's how you get to. Your next assignment is being dang good at where you're at and caring for the people. That where you're at and knowing what your responsibility is, because the moment that you're trying to look a step to two steps ahead and that's where your focus is that's the moment you will let your people down at the worst possible time.
Speaker 2Facts. Hey, concur 100%, I agree. I think you made a good point. It's hard for folks to get in those leadership positions and not think about what's next instead of concentrating what's in front of them. And what you said was so key. I tell chiefs all the time. A commander and chief's relationship is similar to Jordan and Pippen.
Speaker 2No matter how good you are, you are not Jordan, you're Pippen, you're there to support. So in the end, when you leave out that door, you should be able to tell your commander, like your thoughts, like hey, I think this is the wrong thing to do, sir, or ma'am, and things of that nature, but in the end the commander gets the, gets the, the photo, finish across the tape and when you go outside that door it's like your commander's idea is your idea, it's the best idea in the world. This is illegal or immoral. It's going to get somebody killed. It's totally different.
Speaker 1But yeah, great great thoughts, sir, and I see that being a two-way street.
Speaker 1You're absolutely right, chief.
Speaker 1If the chief comes in and gives their best not just military advice, but their best human advice, and then when they leave, you bet they're in accord and the expectation is the chief's not going to go run into the CSS and start running his mouth about what the commander decided. Conversely, as a commander it is also your responsibility to respect the person who gave you the advice, and don't you run out of that room and start talking with your vice or start talking with all your group commanders if you're a wing commander, saying guess what harebrained idea the chief just brought me. Because this respect is this has got to be a two-way street, because respect can't just be one way flowing down. It cannot just be the fact that you know the subordinate has got to give the respect to the superior, but the superior never has to have the gumption or the maturity to be able to have that respect work in the opposite way as well. It's a two way street and if you don't, then you are abdicating. You are truly abdicating your leadership responsibility on a very human level.
Speaker 2Great thoughts Amen.
Speaker 3I hear you.
Speaker 2I just think we we as an you know it goes to. When you talk about lieutenants earlier, sir, I try to tell senior NCOs like how critical it is for them to groom lieutenants. You'll find the majority of good commanders as they move through their to their career. They move on and become squadron commanders. Oh, sixes, generals, when a young airman asks them about their career, they usually always say or go back to when this master sergeant or this seer or chief gave them some life lesson, that kind of sharpened them, or this senior or chief gave them some life lesson, that kind of sharpened them. And that's why I tell them like how critical their role is to set the example, and not only that, in front of the airman too. Yes, lieutenant is brand new. When the lieutenant comes in the room you stand up, because the moment you don't do that other airmen see that they just assume oh it Lieutenant, he's brand new. Well, he or she's brand new, doesn't matter.
Speaker 1Absolutely, absolutely, and you know I can't remember if we talked about it the last time, but this is, I think, a good time since we're on the discussion about you know how critical that senior NCO and chief mentorship is for the officers, and so I'll talk about a time that I personally failed, and I was the squadron commander out of the 786th Security Forces Squadron at Sembach in Germany, and it was what a dream assignment Like. That assignment developed me in so many different ways. And you know we happen to have a situation that came to play where the squadron had a couple great things that were taking place on the same day. Number one the squadron had a couple great great things that were taking place on the same day. Number one the squadron had won the you safety volunteers unit of the year award, like huge, like doing great stuff. And then we had a promotion ceremony that was taking place later in the day, and so the two events, the event in the morning with the uh for the volunteer, that was, I needed to be in service dress, my chief needed to be in service dress and the representatives of the unit needed to be in service dress so we could receive the award from the? U safety commander. In the afternoon it was going to be bdus and um yeah, we were going to be in bdus in the afternoon for the promotion ceremony and something got jacked up somehow Somehow on the calendar. They got input inversely, and so we were in BDUs at the wrong place, or at the right place at the wrong time. Meanwhile, the ceremony and service dress was taking place on another side of the base, in which my group commander needed to get up and accept the ward on our behalf because we were no shows.
Speaker 1Oh no, that was. That was a rough one. It was a rough one, and there's a whole there's a whole, you know litany of of things that we could go back to somehow somewhere that the appointments got reversed. There was no malintent on our part. We were all in the uniform, we thought we were supposed to be in in the place that we thought we were supposed to be in and we weren't. And the group commander was livid. Him and I were already having a little bit of trouble at that point in time. So this was just this was putting icing on the cake?
Speaker 1Yeah, and so he was. He was keeping the award sitting on the corner of his desk and he would not give the award until I came to apologize to him. Wow, this would be another discussion. We get it Now on the on the on the flip side. I was looking at it from this level of we didn't mean it, we were at fault, we did what we thought we were supposed to do, and so in my mind there was this justice complex going on where I wasn't able to see through the trees. I was so focused on why are we getting punished like this? Because we thought we were doing the right thing and this is where we were told to be.
Speaker 2And this went on for a couple weeks.
Speaker 1And him and I weren't talking to each other. And so, finally, at the end of the day, at the time he was a senior mass sergeant, but he was. He was my chief and later became chief Mark Marson. And Mark came to my office and said, hey, boss, you got a second. And he shut the door and we came and sat down and he goes, he goes, I need to let you know that you are failing your squadron, he said. He said I understand, but right now, because of the relationship that you are having with the group commander, it is now spilling into the squadron and our airmen or NCOs are being affected by that. And so, boss, we need you to do the right thing and just go take your licks and go apologize and let's get this back on track. And I, and you know, like in the old cartoons where all of a sudden, like the heel of a shoe, your head would turn into I, I felt like a heel, I felt like everything just dropped.
Speaker 1I felt horrible because everything that chief marston had said was correct and he he knew me like like him and I had a wonderful relationship, which is why what he said was so impactful to me, because he needed to call me out on where I was letting my own personal blinders negatively impact the squadron and I needed him to help me see. And he did help me see, and he did, and I went in that next day because it was it was too late at that point. I went in that next day and I sat down and I did exactly what I needed to do for the squadron and that was apologize profusely, take my licks and try to get us back on the right track. And things fundamentally changed after that, and so that's that's why that relationship is so important.
Speaker 2I think, if you didn't, if you didn't have the risk, if he didn't have your respect, not only as a chief but as a person, he probably wouldn't be able to to affect your you know, change your mind or have you see it another different way. But that respect there was kind of, you know, helps you get there absolutely.
Speaker 3That's a great story. I love hearing stories like that. Uh, we'll go back to the academy.
Speaker 3I just want to kind of piggyback back on that yeah, yeah uh, how do you, as a commander and any level of command, I I hate to say this, like this deal with stress, because if you're stressed like you you said, the whole squadron feels it and even myself as a first art. Now I know my commander stressed, I can feel it, everybody could feel it. How do you deal with that? With trying to navigate what we need to do for the squadron but also deal with your own personal stress or work stress, whatever it is.
Leading Through Stress and Transparency
Speaker 1You know, and I think that there's there's all kinds of great bits of advice that are out there Make sure you have a workout plan, eat right, all this kind of stuff. But but to your point, pete, sometimes it just doesn't happen that way. Sometimes the intensity is so strong that that it is you're not eating well, you're not sleeping well, you know you're not working out, and and all of that stuff does take its toll. Sleeping well, you know you're not working out, and all of that stuff does take its toll. I you know. The reality is it is not something that you can all of a sudden, as a commander, say ah, I'm not going to let stress affect me. This, this is something that you needed to be working on years ahead of time, so that by the moment you got to that place, you were prepared for it.
Speaker 1And in interviews that I've had in different scenarios, I would get asked a question like what do you think has prepared you for this job? You know, what do you think has prepared you for this job? And I would say, depending on how many years I've been in, well, the last 23 years prepared me for this job. There wasn't a single event, there wasn't something that I did. There wasn't a course I took Because, like we've talked before, like I have this fundamental belief that leadership is a human experience and so it's all of those human things that are taking place over the course of your career and how you deal with stress as a lieutenant is going to impact how you deal with stress as a colonel or as a general. If you keep yourself unchecked, and so if you're not the kind of person who is realizing that as a general, if you keep yourself unchecked and so if you're not the kind of person who is realizing that as a lieutenant, you've got kind of a hot head and under stress you'll start, you know, firing for effect. Either somebody's going to pull you aside and say, hey, lt, we need to help you with this, or you have that moment of clairvoyance where you say, shoot, I cannot live like this. Number one I'm going to have a heart attack at 35. Number two I am not doing my people a service.
Speaker 1So somewhere along the way, for some people they'll come to realization at different times than others, but in dealing with stress and understanding how important it is that a leader or an NCO or whatnot is a source of stability, we're all human beings. We're going to have bad days and we're going to have days where our fuse is short, and we're going to have days where everything is going wrong. What I always try to do is just be transparent about it. To do is just be transparent about it.
Speaker 1When I walk into the office and I was like everybody I just want to let you know you don't need to walk on eggshells, but I slept terrible last night. I got something rested on my spirit. You know everything's going wrong, so I just want to let you know like hey, I'm going to try to do the best I can, but I'm just not. I'm not in my best place right now. They appreciate it because then, at least in the beginning, you're kind of telegraphing it, saying hey, I'm a human being, I'm having a moment, which we all have, you know. I just need your help in helping me today. And likewise they'll.
Speaker 2Yeah, go ahead. No, I like that. That's that's you don't see too many people as able to do that, especially in a senior position, was able to do that, especially in a senior position. Be able to just be honest and transparent with the folks that's in their unit and just say, like I'm just having a bad day, I'm not my best version of myself. So I like that. It tells people one that you're a human being, you don't mind sharing. You didn't go into detail, but they know, and then not only only that they may try to do something to kind of help you get back on center, absolutely. Or if you're short, it's nothing against them, it's just you having you know one of those.
Speaker 1Yeah and and a lot of people, I think, see that as weakness, and so they'll keep this facade up. And then, all of a sudden, it just drops out at the wrong time and, like I said, you're firing for effect on people and they're trying to figure out what the heck is going on.
Speaker 1Yet for some reason in your mind, you felt that you would come across as stronger and more respected if you didn't just come in and say hey, everybody, this is where I'm at today. I just probably need you. Let's clear a few other things off the calendar. Let's give me a little bit more space and we'll make it through. And I think that that actually makes you more respected, it actually makes you more courageous, it actually makes you more sincere and more effective, because for crying out loud, we're all in this together, and I think that sometimes people feel like, even as you get higher and higher in rank, that somehow you have to change this appearance about yourself, and I just can't disagree with that more.
Speaker 1Yes, there is an expected level of professionalism, as in standards. People don't want a clown as a commander. But is there a time for a little bit of good natured humor, a little bit of sarcasm? Especially if you've got Pete in the room, you can't help yourself. The jokes write themselves. That's crazy. So there's time for that. There's time for a little bit of levity and time to smile and things like that, so at least it doesn't make life so oppressive. But you're not being a clown when you do that, and then, at the moment that that that they need to be serious and that you need to be serious, people know, because you've been transparent about it, boom, they're, they're on point, they're listening to what you got to say, and and I think that that investment on a very human level actually garner somebody more respect than simply trying to.
Speaker 2You know, double down on the rank and the position right yeah, I love that because you have to be aware, especially in the position you are, you're going to have so many people that it's eager to please, especially in those meetings and such. Yeah, they've got to be able to see a different side of you. Yes, because if all they can see is just one side and then that one side is a little bit more amplified because you're having a rough week or something, yeah, something happened to you. They're going to be walking on eggshells. You don't want people to feel like when they come into work it's like a time bomb ticket, absolutely to feel like now you want them to be on point because you don't want to give you any bullshit excuse my language, no, but you want them to come in as professionals and be like yes none personal.
Speaker 1Just don't bullshit me, just yeah, none personal yeah, absolutely, and and I and I, I think, I think you could get. You're a little late on the beat, but it's all right.
Speaker 3It's hard to catch up to. Yeah.
Speaker 1But I mean you can, you can do that and you can do those things and you can be a leader that people would follow to. You know where I'm back, but you are still the kind of leader that they want to come up to at a social event and just spend time with you.
Speaker 3Yeah, man, it takes a lot of humbleness to be able to balance those two together. I like that A lot, a lot. As we only got about 10, 15 minutes left, I don't want to be remiss without mentioning. Your time at the Academy is coming to the end, like you mentioned. So what is next for General Sherman and the Sherman family?
Speaker 1So Lori and I are absolutely honored that we have been selected to be the next commander of the Air Force Installation and Mission Support Center down in San Antonio, Texas, which I know Chief Counsel does pretty well. Luckily you're getting a new chief.
Next Assignment: AFIMSC Commander
Speaker 3Luckily you're getting a new chief as you arrive, but Luckily your chiefs are changing out Pete.
Speaker 1Oh man, I think chief counsel just froze up.
Speaker 2No, I'm not frozen.
Speaker 1Well, you froze in a different way.
Speaker 2You know what, sir? I'm not paying him no mind. Like you said earlier, your most trusted person is your chief Notice. You didn't say first sergeant.
Speaker 3I know we're number two. I know we're number two, we're not number one, we're number two, but we we're number two.
Speaker 1We might not be number one, we're number two, but we are so excited to go there.
Speaker 1So as a young colonel I worked in AFIMC both at the headquarters and then as a detachment commander.
Speaker 1So when I finished up the training group there at Lackland I rolled over to the headquarters and I was working as they've gone to an A staff structure but it was it was IZ working in installation support as the deputy for a great SES.
Speaker 1I worked for Mr Dave Dentino and I got a chance to just really understand the civil engineering world. I mean that that job and the exposure that I had and in the involvement that I had in CE and logistics was huge in helping me for wing command and so I spent a little over a year in that job. And then they asked if Lori and I would come out here to Colorado Springs and I was the AFIMSC Detachment 1 commander to AFSPACE before Space Force stood up and I was working with General Raymond and his team out there at Peterson and so I really got a great introduction to space, understood really the infrastructure challenges on many installations across the Air Force, but then also the concepts of base resiliency and things along those lines. All of that that really really helped me in wing command. So I think coming back to AFIMSC is huge. We are just super excited about it and I believe in what the organization does.
Speaker 2That was a great deal. We're lucky to have you, sir. I know some things have changed since you last left, especially with all the work we're doing in Atherton and across the Air Force and, like you said, they change in a staff structure. So I guess, if I were to ask you, what do you think? What I don't want to do is get ahead, because I know you're going to talk about this when you take the C. Yeah, I'm curious. What are you looking forward to the most with with coming back to AIMC after all of your experiences?
Speaker 1Something that I was just incredibly impressed with was how incredibly Are you comfortable.
Speaker 3No, this is not a cheap council.
Speaker 2I was going to say you was impressed with it. Well that's, I'm just kidding.
Speaker 1Chief, we were impressed with you a long time ago.
Speaker 1Doesn't matter what Pete says, but I just like the reach and the diversity of mission is phenomenal, and I mean, when you think of a global enterprise that has that much impact on the success of the Air and Space Force, to me it's awe-inspiring, and so I think getting into that.
Speaker 1Something that I'm really excited about is especially, you know, the direction that we've been going for, really on the focus that the Department of the Air Force has taken us, the work that we're doing in the Pacific right now, things that we're looking at from. You know all of the great power competition work that I had an opportunity to be involved with earlier. Now I'm in a place where I can legitimately be a part of the team that is affecting and actualizing it, and so, from that level, I think that's probably where my excitement is through the roof. Plus, I love the construct of getting a chance to be also back immersed with our centers. You know Security Forces Center, civil Engineering Center, our Services Center, you know Financial Management Center of Excellence, all of the centers that fall underneath the oversight of AFIMSC, that are associated with all of them and their reach that they have in affecting those airmen.
Speaker 2And so for me, I think that's a pretty on a very human level, like that's very exciting for me to get back into that Awesome.
Speaker 1Looking forward to it. So let me ask you this You're at 30 years now, yeah, how long do you think you're going to do this? So you know, laurie and I talked about this a lot and for us and for those that know us, her and I are very much a team, like we do everything together. She comes to as many things as she can. We're going to stay on the train as long as the Air Force will let us stay on, and then, when the train pulls into the last station, you know we'll start a new chapter of life. And then, when the train pulls into the last station, you know we'll start a new chapter of life. But until then, we love what we're doing and you know I'm not ready to leave while I still have this much passion and this much love for what we do and what our people do.
Speaker 2Well said. And then how much did Pete pay you to do his retirement?
Speaker 3Oh, my goodness gracious. Oh, my goodness gracious.
Speaker 1Listen, I can either confirm nor deny any of that. This system isn't at the right classification level for us to have.
Speaker 2Thank you General.
Speaker 3Thank you.
Speaker 1General, we may have to talk about that one over a beverage and a smoke.
Speaker 3Thank you, general. I appreciate that. I like that. It's not the right classification level, that's right. Yeah, pete, we'll talk later. Yes, sir, basically he said chief, you don't have the right clearance.
Speaker 3That's basically what he said I'm not sure it was exactly that, but I get you, sir awesome oh man uh, it's gonna be great to see you at IMSC and what you do for IMSC team. For myself, looking from the outside in, as I will be, but looking forward to it to see what's going on. Any last thing I guess I want to ask is we're about to go? Anything that you have to say for those that are about to graduate the academy, enter the academy or anything like that?
Speaker 1Yeah, I think I think the thing that I have been letting our cadets know and I've used this also for our airmen when I've talked to them for our cadets, I'm giving them a little different spin and one of the things that I make sure that they understand is that in our Air and Space Force we have got airmen and guardians that are coming to us from all parts of this country. They're coming to us with a different story, a different background, for whatever reason. There was something inside of them that had them walk into the door to the recruiter and say I want to sign up for the Air or Space Force. And so some of them came to us from phenomenal families with great backgrounds and neat opportunities and something said hey, I want to serve before I go on to whatever I'm doing, or maybe that's their calling. We got some people that grew up as Air Force brats and that term is an incredible term of endearment and pride and this is a part of the family business. And we've got some people that didn't grow up with two nickels to rub together and for some of them, like coming into the service. Coming into the Air Force is a place where they can stand on their own two feet and truly make something of themselves, and this is an opportunity environment for them to go as far as they can.
Speaker 1For our cadets, each of them have a story much like that, but what I'm impressing upon them is that when they are graduating here, they are graduating somewhere between the age of 22 and 24 years old.
Speaker 1They will have more responsibility before the age of 25 that some people will have in their entire lifetime and that is huge level of responsibility on the shoulders of a 22 to 24 year old. And say that you are responsible for the life and well-being of other human beings, you are responsible for the employment of multi-million dollar weapons systems. That is a testament to the faith that we have and what we have entrusted to them. And for Lori and I, as we're spending our time around a lot of cadets trying to do as much engagement as we can before we go, I am encouraged by the character of some of these amazing young Americans that we have going through the halls of this institution. So, as I'm in the autumn of my career, knowing what we have for people in the springtime of their career, it is pretty phenomenal to see what we're doing and I am encouraged by how we are developing to be the best they can for our Airmen and Guardians.
Speaker 3Awesome. That gets me so fired up. That's so awesome. Go ahead, Chief.
Speaker 2No, well said, I was going to say just one. Just as always, thank you for being on here. You are really you might say you are an unpopular celebrity yourself, being here two times already, Right on, and I've always admired, especially after seeing you in action at the Security Forces Symposium about two years ago, giving that one speech that you gave and nearly brought the house down. So we are excited to have you and IMSC here in August, excited about all the things you're going to do. And you're a real one, sir. I'll give you that you are a real one. So look forward to all the good things you're going to do. And again, thank you for being here on with us. And again I pass you my condolences, my heartfelt condolences. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1I appreciate you, gentlemen, appreciate it very much.
Speaker 3Definitely. One thing I want to say is it's going to leave me to my retirement speech a little bit, but I won't go into it too much. But Robert Avdaka, this was not planned, Chief. He said Sergeant Peterson is one for humor, but when we locked in, we locked in One of my favorite text arts. Back in day. I will say I learned that from you, General, when you were a colonel. I have learned from watching you that we can have fun. But I also knew when it was time for Pete to get the hell out the room for y'all to handle business, which happened often.
Speaker 2Which happened often.
Speaker 3I can realize that you have taught me. When it was time to lock in, as we did for your promotion ceremony, it was time to work and I really admire and appreciate me knowing the difference. When it was time to work, it was work time and then, when it was, we can have some fun and put and let our hair down a little bit. We could do that as well. And we're still the same human beings, the same respect, the same professionalism all the time, and I try to carry that forward. I'm sure I failed, I'm sure I'll continue to fail, but I tried to get that from you. I really, really did.
Speaker 1Thanks, Pete. I appreciate that it means a lot. Thank you. Are we?
Speaker 2sure he meant Dominic Peterson or some other Peterson, because that's like my last name this is crazy.
Speaker 3I don't know why you keep the phrases that I do, sometimes like I just glut for punishment.
Speaker 2I just can't believe sir, I just can't believe you actually. You actually was his commander, like, are you going to do a ceremony? He didn't drive you up the wall. I'm shocked. Oh, I'm sure I did as his commander. Are you going to do a ceremony?
Speaker 3He didn't drive you up the wall. I'm shocked. Oh, I'm sure I did.
Speaker 2Oh, I'm sure I did. You must have to tell him you lock it in quick just to get him out your office.
Speaker 1I needed Pete to stop bugging, so I said I'll do it Exactly.
Speaker 3I appreciate that also.
Speaker 1But, Pete, I can't fault you. I mean, it worked like a charm and also I'm happy to do it. What I have been incredibly pleased about is just is watching your growth and you being a first sergeant like that. I could not think of a better position for you to be in at the time of retirement, knowing your personality and the path to get there. Being the shirt I think is a huge honor and I think it's ideal, so I'm really looking forward to seeing you here in a few weeks.
Speaker 3General. I appreciate that, looking forward to having you. Chief, don't say a word, cause you'll be, but general, we always leave you with the last word, I guess with the last word. So, but, uh, jim, we always leave you with the last word, I guess with the last word. So, sir, over to you and, like Chief, said my condolences to you as well, as you're going to take off tomorrow, so last word for you.
Speaker 1I think I think I'll just keep it simple and just say thank you all out there watching unpopular celebrities on what you do for our force.
Speaker 1Every single one of you has an incredible impact on our ability to just be the family and the organization that we are, and please know that it is not lost on us the time, heart and effort that you put into everything you do, whether you are leaving a thumbprint on somebody's soul being a frontline supervisor, or whether you are looking up the chain, figuring out the best way that you can be the absolute best airman that you can at the time and the place that you are needed most, the absolute best airman that you can at the time and the place that you are needed most.
Speaker 1Know that you are seen, know that you are appreciated, and know that you are a part of a tremendous family, and the lineage and the things that we do together are not only writing in the pages of history right now, but they're going to be guaranteed in our future, and so I just want to let you know what an honor it is to serve with all of you and how excited I am about the days that lie ahead. Thank you very much damn hey, no more to say after that unpopular celebrities.
Speaker 3We out of here, we'll see y'all in a couple weeks or a couple days or a couple months or whenever we coming on again. Y'all see us again. Appreciate it, major general sherman. Y'all go back and watch this, watch it again, watch it again. Chief, anything go birds. All right, we're out of here. Peace.
