Unpopular Celebrities Podcast LLC
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Unpopular Celebrities Podcast LLC
How A Documentary Reopens Old Wounds In Hip-Hop And Forces A Hard Look At Power
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The mixtapes raised a generation, but the documentary forces a reckoning. We pull back the curtain on Sean Combs’ climb from Uptown intern to Bad Boy mogul and walk through the cultural milestones that made the 90s feel invincible—then we test those memories against the stories many never wanted to tell. From Jodeci’s leather-and-Timb boots to Mary J’s raw soul, from Craig Mack’s spark to Biggie’s reign, we trace how a glossy East Coast sound took over radio while rivalries with Death Row and the Source Awards lit a fuse the industry couldn’t control.
The conversation gets real when the music stops and the power starts. We revisit the Quad Studio shooting, the tensions around Pac and Biggie, and the Vegas night that still haunts hip-hop’s timeline. Alongside the headlines are the quieter mechanics: contracts that promised fame but not wealth, gatekeeping that rewarded silence, and the uncomfortable calculus of access over ethics. “Making the Band” nostalgia turns into a lesson on control and career stall-outs; claims from collaborators like Little Rod introduce intimate, manipulative receipts that are hard to shake. The documentary doesn’t act as judge; it catalogs patterns and asks what we ignore to keep our favorite songs untouched.
By the end, we’re weighing legal outcomes against moral clarity. Did public campaigns sway the process? How much responsibility lies with the machine around a star—managers, peers, fans—who benefit while looking away? For listeners who lived the era, this is a gut check: can we separate art from artist, or does the backstory change how the music hits? Hit play for a candid, layered walkthrough of The Reckoning, the East–West fault lines, and the costs hiding in fine print. If this era shaped your playlists and your memories, you’ll have thoughts—subscribe, share your take, and tell us: what do you believe now that you didn’t before?
Warm-Up, Shoutouts, Housekeeping
SPEAKER_01What's good? Chillin', man. Chillin'. Good. I can hear you. Everything's good.
SPEAKER_02Happy Thursday.
SPEAKER_01Happy Thursday. Daniel says I like the video. Shout out, like the SpongeBob. Like the SpongeBob joint. Uh, everything looks good on my end. I don't really need to set anything up. I think everything's good. Looking good. Getting levels. Thursday night. Well, evening. Afternoon? What would that be considered? Afternoon?
SPEAKER_02Nah, it's evening.
SPEAKER_01Evening. What time does it was supper time? Thursday? Supper time? Supper.
SPEAKER_02What do they call it? What was that show back in the day? Um, House on the Prairie type stuff. Supper. What are you talking about?
SPEAKER_01Supper time. Supper. Is my wallet? Is me is your wallet what? Is that a joke? I don't get it. Is my wallet? Is my wallet.com? Is my wallet.what? Uh Tony Renee. Look at y'all. Like y'all. Look at look at y'all looking like y'all. Okay. Okay. Uh all right. Off to you, man. I'm still still trying to make sure everything's good. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Peace, human beings. Peace, peace, peace, human beings. Your boy, Philly DC, in the house today. Happy to be with you guys. You have my co-host, also the engineer today, Pete. You got Jessica Player and Dell Brown out in the place handling their business in the world. We are your unpopular celebrities podcast. Thank you for being here today on this Thursday. We got a great show lined up for you today. But before we get started, as always, paying the bills, make sure you like, share, and subscribe to all of our social media. We got something for all y'all each day and every day. And we're gonna have some special stuff coming up in December. Always remember if you want the real, you want a place where you can be yourself and hear some great stuff for you to laugh about and think about join your unpopular celebrities team here. You're here in this place. So we got a great show lined up for you.
Setting The Stage: Why This Doc
SPEAKER_01Yo, love the emojis, man. Y'all go ahead and keep the emojis going, man. Those things are funny. I don't know what that is, but those things are funny. There's little emojis that bounce over the screen. If you're on the YouTube, man, you can set that up. It's pretty funny. It's pretty funny. Interesting. Uh all right, let me see. All right, we're here to talk about what are we here to talk about?
SPEAKER_02Yo, we're here to talk about the Netflix special on P Diddy, The Reckoning.
SPEAKER_01I feel like The Reckoning. Uh, so I saw the show in totality about three, four days ago. It took me two days to watch it, but uh first initial reaction was it was really it is really done well. Um, and then I saw some interviews afterwards. Um we here to talk about y'all and how you snitched on him.
SPEAKER_02Yellow. I think you're talking about yellow.
SPEAKER_01Who's yellow?
SPEAKER_02I don't know. We're here to talk about yellow and how you snitched on him. I don't know who yellow is.
SPEAKER_01What's up, bud? Answer your phone. Yeah. Oh, hold on. I think I know who that is. Man, you didn't text me. I ain't who I thought that was. Head it out. I ain't watched it. Oh, well, you can come back and watch this later and uh let us know what you think. I subscribe, man. Appreciate it, man. If you just subscribe right now, we we should get it. We should have got the little alert, man. Where's my alert box at? What the thanks for subbing up, brother or sister. Yeah, yeah, that makes me mad. All right, uh, so I watched it a couple days ago, man. How long ago you watched it? Yeah, there it goes.
SPEAKER_02I watched it. I I finished uh concluded it last night. Okay, so I watched all the episodes, so I'm completely done. So yeah, it took me about yeah, two days.
SPEAKER_01Mike Tyson, the quitter, you freaking hater. Yo, don't throw this Tyson up in here, man. Okay, so I don't know why. Would you say that? Why would he say that? I need to turn on my light back there, but thank you for that. Uh is it's it's your birthday? Well, happy birthday. Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday.
SPEAKER_02Happy birthday, bro.
SPEAKER_01Said uh your screen bob is your brother. Enjoy yourself. All right, we ain't gonna get to this if we keep reading all the comments. So uh first initial reaction about this. How do we start this? Do you want to do episode by episode? You want to do just a whole like talk about the first episode and what you thought? You want to do like a whole synopsis, one thing at a time?
SPEAKER_02I think I think it would be appropriate to do a quick overview of how we got here to this to this show.
SPEAKER_01Oh well, shoot, it was kind of your idea, so I'll turn that over to you.
Bad Boy Origins And Uptown Years
SPEAKER_02Okay, for for folks that have been living under the rock um for quite some time. Don't know about you, but you know, I'm showing my age, but I grew up, you know, I'm I ain't gonna talk about how old I am, but I am old, you can tell by the beard. But I grew up in the bad boy era, right? I'm a big hip-hop fan, huge hip-hop fan. So I grew up obviously in the you know, listening to like L Cool J, Eric B, Rock Him, or whatever. But then when hip-hop changed, and then you had like Bad Boy come on the horizon. You had, of course, Craig Mack, you had the notorious B.I.G. Then you had Mary J. Blige, you had those artists. Bad boy was huge back in the 90s. I mean, everybody was dancing till Biggie, give me one more chance, whatever, dang near warning, all that stuff, and then you had the transition to Mace and them boys. So, anyway, bad boy was huge, and so P. Diddy, initially known as Puff Daddy, was the architect of it all. And Puff Daddy, I like your hair.
SPEAKER_03Okay, all right.
SPEAKER_02Um, I like your hair. Oh, good looking now, man. Appreciate it. Hey, so uh anyway, I won't belabor it. Puff Daddy was larger than life. I mean, he was known throughout the music industry and in the world, I might say, about his musical genius and making hits. He had that thing called Bad Boy, I thought told you we won't stop, and all that other stuff. So Puff Daddy for years were involved in various incidents that has um caused his name to be almost tarnished in some ways, but he's found some way to get out of it. But last year, September 24, the FBI raided his home. I can't but remember the city it was in, but they raided his home and they charged him with a bunch of things. Go ahead, I'm sorry. No, it's either Miami or LA. I can't remember either. Okay, so racketeering, sex trafficking, um, extortion, a number of charges, and then they put him in jail. And so it was for about seven or eight months, they went through the federal the trial in federal court, and then it concluded about I think it was about maybe three, four months ago or something. They came out with the verdict. They didn't find him guilty on all charges, but he was guilty of um, I believe it was uh sex trafficking or something like that, like transportation or something. What do you say? Grandpa's what? I love your street. Grandpa's meeting is going on. Okay. All right, you got some weird comments. All right. Anyway, so 50 Cent, if you know him, 50 Cent decided to make a documentary on what happened during the P. Diddy saga. And so it was aired on Netflix, executive produced by 50 Cent Curtis Jackson, and that's what we watched um over the last two days. And looking at all the reaction over social media, it was well received, a lot of information, especially from my standpoint, that was very enlightening. That I had no idea about. Sorry, I used the microphone.
SPEAKER_01He's trying to type, he's trying to type, but he's using the microphone.
SPEAKER_02That's why it's I gotcha. That's all right, bro. It's all right, my brother. But it was a lot of cont, it was a lot of it was well received. So, anyway, that's what we're here now. So it's shown pity, showing P. Diddy Combs, The Reckoning, and it was produced by um Curtis Jackson. So let's start with the beginning in episode one. So I'll do a quick synopsis and then you can jump on. It's number one on Netflix. Appreciate that, bro. You're right. It's it's well reserved, it should be number one. So it did a quick highlight of P. Diddy or Sean Combs as he was coming up. You know, they talked about his mom, they talk about his father, who was wasn't around really, but was known as a well-known figure, potentially like um, they referred to his father as a gangster for some reason. Um, they showed pictures of him, but he wasn't really around much. But his mom, I can't remember her name, Janet. James.
SPEAKER_01Something like that. Yeah, Janet James. Something like that.
SPEAKER_02But he was she was very very involved in his life. You're gonna see it really impacted him over the years, obviously, being his mom and such. But growing up in um in Harlem and being involved in the kind of my dad is in the hospital, um, portraying his ability to really be ambitious as he was growing up. He was getting involved, he was going to Howard University for a while. His mom was working like a bunch of jobs to support him and stuff. His father worked for Frank Lucas. Man, that's a good man. Appreciate that. I missed that part.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I missed that.
SPEAKER_02So, anyway, Sean Combs kind of developed that same type of personality as his father, a go-getter or whatever. And he went through his upbringing, and then he ended up at Howard University. Then in Howard University, that's when hip hop started to take off. He was getting interested, he was starting to dance and stuff like that. Pause funny part, she and Sean Combs were a gumby. Man, that was funny. Sean Combs is a funny looking dude anyway, but that's another story, you know. I'm saying, no, no, not digging on, but he was a funny looking dude, especially back then. But anyway, so he had the gumby, whatever, so he was dancing, so he drops out of Howard University and he decides to get into the music business hardcore. So he appeared in a couple of videos. There was this one video, I can't remember the girl group name, it was old school, but he played the pimp and old school Volkswagen with a drop top, and he was sitting there with his tongue, all like something like that. It was mad funny, man. He drove off with his joint, his finger in the air, whatever. But anyway, I thought that was funny, man. And so, anyway, I'll pause there and let you jump in.
SPEAKER_01Now, I think that's a good synopsis at the start. First of all, uh he uh I was it AR Records where he worked, or was it Universal where he got his first like induction into uh music?
SPEAKER_02Was it no AR? You mean uh Arista? Where where the uh he's still looking for? I can't remember the name of the first record, but I think are you talking about when he was with Andre Harrell? Yes, was that Universal? I can't remember, I can't remember what it was. I'll look it up. Oh, Uptown.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, Nikki, Nikki coming with it. I appreciate you. Yeah, so uh he started with Uptown, and um he was under the wing of a very known producer at that time, and he was kind of the gatekeeper for everybody getting into uh you know music industry at that time, and uh I guess P. Diddy was very adamant about getting this job and doing what he did, and they were just like, Well, you need to sit behind the bench and all this. And then uh the guy who he actually moved in with, what was his name? You just said his name a minute ago, Andre Jurell. Yeah, Andre Horrell. Uh, he moved in with him, and they started, I guess, learning the industry through him. The best way I could say it.
Early Ambition And The Trampled Event
SPEAKER_02Yeah, Andre Jurell was very well known at the time. He produced, he was producing Al B Shore, Heavy D and the Boys, and I mean he was making hit after hit. And remember, you know, funny story. I wish my wife was here, man. She was the big I'll be shore fan. And all the girls back in the day, you know, they like them light-skinned dudes like yourself back in the day. You know, your time is over, you know. I mean, thanks to Wesley Snipes and such. But that's another story. But anyway, he was all over the walls of most young girls. So, my my let's see, it's the fourth day of Christmas. It was a lot going on back then. Yes, it was. But anyway, so when Sean Combs went and he he went to Andre Harrell, and I love the part, it kind of reminded me of you, to be honest. He was like, yo, like he pretty much was saying, Hey, I want to learn the music business, I'll do whatever I gotta do to do it, you know, I'm a go-getter or whatever. And he was very ambitious. And Andre Hurrell was like, you know, amazed by him, like, hey, this guy's interesting. So he started working with Andre Horrell, and then Andre Hurrell gave him like the ability, uh, we gave him some stuff like an AR job. So, like an AR job, I remember when I was listening really in the hip hop in the beginning, they kept talking about ARs and stuff. So, AR guys like artist development, they're the ones that most of the artists try to get to to try to get a deal, and that's who Sean Combs of P. Diddy was. So, he was responsible for developing all the artists and stuff, listening to tapes and all that. And so over time, Andre Horrell trusted him even more, and then he's like, yo, I want you from this point to just just do development for all our artists. So then he Sean Combs ended up getting like groups like Jodice and Mary J. Blodge, and I can't remember this other group now, I never even heard of them, but it was huge. That was the first eye-opening thing for me. Was like, wow, like this dude, I knew he had something to do with Mary J, but not Jodicey. But they went talking about how Jodice was like dressed back then with the high tech boots and the and the baggy jeans and stuff. That was all Sean Combs.
SPEAKER_01I was very impressed. Yeah, super impressed by that. Uh, I didn't know he had anything to do with Joe Dicey. I never knew. And uh, for those of y'all that don't know who Joe Dice is, uh, Joe Dicey is a very well-known uh RB group from man, when did that start? The 90s 80s, yeah, it was the 90s. 90s. Uh, so back in the 90s, he started this group. Uh, well, the group got introduced, and it was Joe Dicey. And uh, some people know Casey and Jojo, who are a little bit more famous now. Uh, but they're in the group, and then there's a couple more other people in the group, but they got hits after hits after hits. Uh, and if you ever look up Joe to see, man, you ever want to do some baby making music, uh, put on some Joe Dicey, man. You turn your girl out. Uh, and this is why rap is dying. Oh, we'll get to that. We'll get to that. But um yeah, so I didn't know he was all in that, and then uh it was funny because I forgot all about the Mary J. Blige stuff. I forgot he had anything to do with Mary J. Blige, and I remember now that she was on a couple of his records later on, and now it makes sense why she was on there, yeah. Um, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02But yeah, uh so I I I've I've I did skip a part. I wanted to quickly go back before getting with Andre Harrell. Remember, P. Diddy started doing record well, doing promotion, like party promotions. So he was promoting all these parties around where he was at and stuff, you know. He was hanging out with like heavy D and all this other stuff. So he he did this big party at a basketball court, like a celebrity basketball court court game, and like all like a lot of like A-listers was there, like Dougie Fresh, Heavy D, and whatever. And so he overpromoted the party, and it was so many people that went there that gym could not handle all of the people, and then something happened. I can't remember if it was gunshots or whatever, but people were trying to leave and they didn't have enough exits, and people were getting trampled.
SPEAKER_01I think people were trying to come in and they didn't have enough uh security, and so it was like a$15 event. But like they said, like, yeah, some people were like, Hey, just bum rush the door. So they started bum rushing the door, and they said the doors open this way, not that way, and everybody started pushing into the door and they started getting trampled on.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so yeah, I missed that. I must have missed that part. So it wasn't gunshots, then thanks for the clarification. Yeah, apparently, everybody was trying to get into the to the event, and they it wasn't enough room, so people started getting trampled. So I remember something about a lot of people got injured, but I think it was like four to five people got killed. And then I thought was interesting they were showing video footage of of Sean Combs walking around. He liked he was bewildered, like he couldn't believe what was going on because they had all these people that was dying or dead in the event, and so obviously he ended up getting like having to go answer for it. But what I thought was interesting is when he was in front of the microphone, he said, we need to find this way, we need to find a way where this will not ever, ever, ever, ever happen again. And I I don't know about you, man, but I thought to myself, was like, this is the first start, and as the series went on, I want to get too far ahead. This really illustrated his mindset. Because let's because like I think he's ultimately responsible for what happened. But he kind of flipped it as if it wasn't him, it was the venue, or it wasn't enough security. But last I checked if you hold an event and you promote it, you really Reap the benefits of how much it makes, how much fame it it generates, you should also be responsible for the safety too. Right. But he kind of flipped it as if it was like somebody else's fault.
SPEAKER_01Uh do you think if you're putting on an uh event and something happens, it's your fault, especially something like that.
Artist Development: Jodeci And Mary J
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah, absolutely. Especially like it's just like I look at it as at your house. If you hold something at your house and it snows and it's ice on the ground, they leave and they slip, you're responsible. If they're in your house and there's a power outage, and I don't know, the chandelier falls on somebody, you're responsible. So when you hold an event at a place and you're having people come there, now is it automatically a fault? No, but you're gonna have to answer to it and prove you did everything you could to ensure there were safety protocols in place. But he even said himself there wasn't enough security and there wasn't a process put in place. I mean, think it was at the time was what the early 90s, late 80s, where you had enough people to usher people into the event in an orderly fashion. He didn't even have that, so yeah, I think you're ultimately responsible.
SPEAKER_01What up, Freddie Kincaid in the building? Uh, but yeah, I I agree. I think that was tough back back then, especially if it's his first event and uh something like that to happen. Why it's very sad that it happened, I ultimately agree with you that you're responsible with how the success and the failure of the event, and unfortunately, that failure cost people some lives, so that's very unfortunate.
SPEAKER_02But and like I said, I don't want to get too far ahead of the of the of the show, but uh it to me especially they showed different they showed that wasn't the the last time they showed clips of that event, and I think there was a reason for that, but anyway, moving on. So back to Andre Hurrell. Sean Combs gets so it gets is very is so good at the job, he trusts him with full artistry, artist development of Joe DeC, Mary J. Blige, he produced them and all that, and he becomes a hit, right? He and I think Andre Hurrell even mentioned he's like he's a he's like on the rise. It's like he can't believe how good this dude is. And then over time, it started to show or portray Sean Combs' um thought process when it comes to things. Like if he wants something, he wants it. So there was a woman, Kim Porter, who was his original wife. She was like working at the front desk. Apparently, she was going out with I'll be sure at the time, and so I guess he was telling somebody like he wanted to get her, and they was like, yo, that's I'll be sure girl, whatever. And he said, I'm gonna get her. So I guess he was wooing her and stuff like that, and he eventually got Kim Porter away from I'll be sure. But pause, what I'm a little disappointed in, and my wife included, I thought they were going to talk about how he was able to rust away um I'll be sure's son, sign all his rights over to um Sean Combs. I thought they were gonna talk about that, but they didn't.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that didn't come up at all at all. Uh, first of all, Daniel, your comment uh wish you could send us money, but my mom said no. Listen to mom, have mom come on the show and then see if she you can send money then. But yeah, don't be hey, you can do this one better, help by promoting this show.
SPEAKER_02Thank you. There you go, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, but yeah, I didn't know anything about his son and Diddy and their relationship. I just I didn't know that Kim Porter was dating, I'll be sure, and all that thing happened. That was that was new to me. Um interesting point about how it sets up with Diddy and how everything is his mindset, and I guess he was always like, If I want some, I'm gonna get it. Where I admire that type of mentality, but this shows when it's used for bad that stuff can happen, and we'll talk about it as we move on. Um, yeah, as he moved on, uh, so it seems like he got fired from working with what's that guy's name again? Andre Harrell. Andre Harrell, Uptown Records. So he fired him. I can't remember what it was for exactly. Yeah, I'm trying to remember too. I want to say because he was sad he had to let him go, but he said, Yeah, I had to let him go.
SPEAKER_02Oh, they wasn't getting along. I think Sean Combs' head was getting too big, they wasn't getting along. It was like kind of arguing all the time. I think that's the reason why he let him go.
SPEAKER_01And that could be true, and that and that could be true. I'm trying to look it up as we say. Uh, Diddy was fired from Uptown Records for being overly passionate, lacking an understanding of workplace policies, and crashing with his boss or clashing with his boss, Andre Harrell. Yeah, so yeah, there you go, right on point. Uh, it's kind of crazy. Uh he immediately started his own record label. It's like he never missed a beat. Oh, I think in the firing, he gave them was it to Biggie. Biggie gave him Biggie Smalls towards B.I.G. So if you didn't know, Biggie was supposed to sign with Uptown Records, which now opens up a bigger envelope. What would have happened to Biggie's life if he would have gone with Uptown? Because he was just hardcore rapper that was not really starting to be a thing, but wasn't really a thing. Most rap back then was what what would you describe rap back in those days?
SPEAKER_02Uh, rap at that time was like um new jack swing type rap.
SPEAKER_01New jack swing, yeah.
Fired From Uptown, Birth Of Bad Boy
SPEAKER_02So more or less you had like Father MC was big back in the day, heavy D. Um, they just started getting the hardcore rap because at that time when notorious BIG was just coming on the scene, the hotness was coming out of the West Coast. They had Dr. Dre, they had Snoop and Ice Cube and NWA. That was the hardcore rap. And it's kind of on topic, but off topic. But that was a huge pivot in hip-hop. When at that time, when the West Coast came on board, they were saying stuff that the east coast weren't. Now, don't get me wrong, the east coasts weren't soft, they were talking about a lot of street life and stuff, but not like the West Coast. The West Coast was like in your face, talking about the police and all this other stuff. And then when Dre and Snoop, when Dre and Snoop got together and they came out with the chronic album and stuff, the East Coast was like put on the back burner, which was rare at that time. And so I remember now in the show, Sean Combs before he got fired, when he went to Andre Harrell, he said, Look, you're trying to make like hip hop music for young people. I'm a young person, I know hip hop, let me do it, whatever, blah blah blah. And so when he got fired, and he says, Huh, I'm sorry, man, hold on, go out there and sit down. My bad, my other co-host, my dog. But when he got fired, he said, Look, I will let you have notorious BIG. Yeah, and that's huge because to your point, he could have signed with Uptown. I'm gonna pause here because I'm gonna have to put my dog up, man. He's tripping.
SPEAKER_01He says such a dog, yeah. Yeah, I'm sorry, y'all. Golden Doodle life, man. I'm sorry, man. But anyway, go ahead. Yeah, I agree. Uh, it's amazing to see that he got selected or he was able to get Biggie and what happened with Biggie's life, as we'll talk about in a second. But um, I think from there, Bad Boy took off. Well, I'm sorry, it didn't really take off. Bad boy started, I should say it started, and he was producing notorious Big, and that was like his main dude. That was like the dude he was gonna make big. And um that was probably the end of the first episode. Towards the end of the first episode, we might miss a couple things, but nothing really key. All the key stuff we kind of talked about, but uh moving on is when he really started Bad Boy, and he became I don't even know how he changed his name to Puff Daddy. I don't think they talked about that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, he um well, he I don't remember the daddy part, but they say they call him Puff because of something. He always had that nickname Puff. I can't remember. It was like when he was young, you know. I mean, it wasn't like when he became bad boy, he was Puff Daddy. I don't know when they added the daddy part, nor did he part, nor the brother love part. Oh that we even won't even get in that yet. Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_01So one thing he played football at the academy, his team won the division, and comb said that he was given the name Puff as a child because he would huff and puff when he was angry.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I remember that one, okay. Yeah, um, but when Bad Boy started, the first artist that was out of the pipe was really Craig Mack.
SPEAKER_01Really Craig Mack. And Craig Mack wasn't really a good artist to me.
SPEAKER_02No, he was, he just didn't have so it was a side story they didn't cover, but when Craig Mack started and Biggie came out, Craig Mack felt like he was pushed to the wayside. Oh, okay, because his first hit, Flavian, it was hot. I mean, it was banging, but then you know, I was telling my wife the other day, man, his album was trash, man. He only had like two good songs, but he it his um he kind of fell to the wayside because when Biggie came out, he was doing all these mixtapes, and then um he wasn't really giving the same push as Biggie. And what was interesting, too. I'm kind of getting ahead. Get down, man. I'm sorry, man. Groupies over here, but at one point, he Craig Mac was trying to go to death row, man. I didn't know that. Yeah, trader.
Craig Mack, Biggie, And A New Sound
SPEAKER_01I think he was trying to go to death row because of what you said. East Coast wasn't really pushing gangster rap like that, and the west coast was with death row, it was with just with Snoop and Dre at the time, and it's really just those two, and then you had a couple one-off people that you, if unless you're real big on rap, you didn't know. But then Diddy started signing 112, uh, and then SWV. And it's really weird when you think about Diddy's career, he just had hit artist after hit artist after hit artist, and the only miss he had was really Craig Mac and that other dude that we don't even know who the heck he was. Who was that other dude that was on one freaking song that he said he was writing for Diddy? Oh, Mark Curry. I don't even know who that is. Yeah, yeah. But who's that dude? I don't know. Then he had Shine, he had the locks, he had uh, I'm trying to think of who else, but that's really the main people that he had. But uh it's incredible that he got yeah, you good. It's incredible he got artist after artist after artist to come on. Faith Donovan, my homie, how are you? It's good to have you, good to see you. Uh Cliff, yeah, Black Rob had one hit. Yeah, for sure had a hit. Uh, what was that hit? Oh, whoa, like whoa, yeah, y'all looked that up, man. That joint was bumping back in the day. Hey, somebody showing the age, but yeah, Black Rob for real. But um Gene Harrison in the building. What's up, big dog? Uh, but as Diddy started, and as we go, uh it became crazy that he started beefing with uh Suge Knight. And I don't I think it was because Suge or uh P. Diddy was trying to take Suge's girl. Forgive my doll, he just wants attention. Uh yeah, that's my dog breathing in the mic. Uh, I'm gonna make sure I kick him out, but he just wanted some attention. Uh, but yeah, so uh I don't know what y'all starting to look like. Oh, look alike. Hell no, I'm finna cut my beard off today. We is not looking alike. You're gonna have to go lay down, big dog. You have to go lay down. Go. Um so yeah, so I think that was very interesting how that happened with uh Diddy started beefing with Sug Knight because of a girl. And that's where it all started at. And uh Diddy was pretty big back then, but if you remember the Source Awards, there was a big beef with the East Coast and West Coast rap, and that's where that all started. And the only one good on the East Coast was Biggie back then. Now they started getting a lot better rappers now, but back then and the West Coast was really dominating quote unquote gangster rap. Uh, and they were moving into that area of taking over for gangster rap back then, back in the day, back in the early 90s. Um, and then Pac was cool with Biggie, and it seemed like Puff was jealous over their relationship, like Diggy was or excuse me, yeah. Biggie was two, or excuse me, well, Puff's only artist that he really had. And Cliff brought up another one, we brought up a couple more, but really at the gangster rap phase, that's all really was. Uh, after the documentary, I'm starting to believe if Diddy had something to do with Pac being shot in the studio, I think Biggie didn't know. Yeah, we'll get into that, Cliff, for sure. But um, so he started getting jealous over the relationship. And as Cliff just pointed up, I think this uh brings us right into the next point. There was a spot that Tupac said the same way as they said it, and we'll never hear from Biggie's standpoint. But basically called Pac and was like, Come to the studio. And was it Lil C's? Uh, there was another artist named Little C's, got a call, was like, Hey, Tupac's down here, he's at the studio. And he's like, he told Biggie, and Biggie was like, Yo, bring him up. That's the big homie. So as he as Little C's tells it, as he went downstairs in the elevator, some dudes were there, and they were like, get back in the elevator, had a gun point at him. As the story goes along, Pac got shot, I think one, two, three times, something like that, at the studio. And that's what really started that East Coast, West Coast beef, especially with Bad Boy and Death Row. And I'll say here first, I think that was the start of Bad Boy really being relevant, was during that time when Tupac got shot, and that beef really kicked off. I think that was catapulted Tupac, or excuse me, catapulted Bad Boy to really be relevant. Because at the time, and I'm a West Coast dude, I was from Cali. That is all we list to was West Coast Death Row, and they were all over the place. But I think that's what catapulted Bad Boy and being relevant was the shooting of Tupac in the studio. Uh, and that's kind of where Tupac was just like, I'ma join Death Row. And then he made that song. Um, was it Hit Hem Up? I think it was Hit Hem Up, where he talked about Biggie, talked about he had sex with his wife and blah blah blah. And Biggie made that song. Uh man, was it Warning? No, what was that song called? Uh Cut Your Beard, Big Bro. Just promise that you'll never wear them stunner glasses live. I done it before. If I had them with me, I'd put them back on, but I won't wear them. They're saying that we're starting to look alike.
SPEAKER_02It's it's called Who Shot Ya? That was the song.
SPEAKER_01Who shot you? And they didn't want that performed uh during that time. And ironically enough, thanks, thanks, Cliff. Ironically enough, uh, I'm from Cali and Philly is from Philly or born Ben, born. I thought it was born, Ben. I I could read, but anyway, what's your thoughts? I I know you just got back, but we're talking about when Pac got shot. Cliff says he thinks Diddy had something to do with that. The first shoot.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah, that oh absolutely. This, you know, I at first years ago when I heard that, I was like, Yeah, that's convenient, you know. And then over time, I heard more people like the dude that actually shot him kind of alluded to it. I was like, nah, man. But after seeing this series, I think he had something to do with it. Absolutely, and we can get into that in a second. But back to your other comments. Yeah, thank you, girl. Hey, what's up, babe? We miss you, girl. What's up, fave? Konichi Why? Konichi Why? I know anyway. Um, no, Big Bad Boy was huge even before Tupac was shot. Okay, so because at the height of the at the beginning of the East Coast, West Coast World on war, um, remember, Notorious BIG had his album release party. He even sent him Tupac a sample of it, like uh, you know, and then Tupac was listening to it. He's like, I like this dude, whatever. And he's like, I'm gonna come support you with his party. So they showed pictures of him and Tupac together. And what I thought was one of the best parts about the series is when they showed them both freestyling, and I could see the admiration in Tupac and in Biggie for each other, and I thought that was pretty cool, man. It made me fully, it made me feel real bad. And I know don't spare me for this, y'all, but they kind of reminded me of Malcolm, uh Martin Luther King and Malcolm X in a way. Because they both believed in the same thing but different ways, they had different visions. I know somebody's gonna kill me for this, but just hear me out. They're both good or big in their own way, but they had a deep admiration for each other, and ironically, both of them got killed, and then Biggie and Tupac got killed. I'm not saying Biggie and Tupac and Martin Luther King Malcolm X, it's just kind of reminding me because good two good brothers, two talented brothers, Tupac already was established, and he saw Biggie coming on the scene, and at least by the way to betray it, Tupac wasn't jealous of it. Before I go any further, something just popped in my head that blew my mind, too. There was a couple of things, but this blew my mind. So you remember when they were saying how bad boy was just coming on scene and they were trying to figure out a because at the time BIG came out with juicy and juicy, thank you, man. I appreciate it, Kenny. But they came out with juicy, right? You know, it was all a dream. We used to beat up water magazine, some peppers, and then the magazine, right? It was a hot hit, but it wasn't that huge. At the time, Tupac had get around, right? And they showed Tupac get around. They was having fun at the party. So it was like, yo, we want the same thing. It really showed how the West Coast was and how they was having fun. Well, we want the same thing. So they turned around and they did a remix. Of one more chance, and it looked almost just like we get a you know, I get around, and it blew my mind. I was like, yo, because that was really beyond that. Was the hit, that one was ringing throughout the radio. That one, I remember my wife and I, we were in New Mexico when I came out, and man, that was back then. We had tape decks, you know. I had a cassette cassette tape deck and my Volkswagen Jetta. We ran that in the whole man, true player for real. That's Puff Daddy. Yeah, I'm like, yeah, that was a joy. I wasn't even from New York, but it was hot. But that blew my mind. That blew my mind.
SPEAKER_01You know what? I didn't know that part until they said that, and then they said that um Puff watched that video and was like, oh man, that's what I want. And I think you remember it was funny because they showed a perfect clip where Tupac had a bunch of girls around him, and then go to the One More Chance video. You had Puff sitting in the uh the uh jacuzzi with a bunch of girls around him, like almost identical. It was funny. If if it was nowadays, he would have probably got sued for copyright infringement, but I mean, back then, who knows? Uh, you both are great. Hey, thanks, thanks, appreciate it.
East-West Tensions And The Source Awards
SPEAKER_02Thank you, man. I appreciate it. Um, I don't know about that because you know, people were biting off people for years, man. I don't think, I don't think they, at least from my perspective, my opinion, I don't think they would have had a case if they would have sued them for copyright infringement. I mean, all they did was took the same theme from a video and they flipped it into the East Coast way. Now, think about it, right? Those were two popular videos, two popular songs. I had no idea. I never thought to this day until now that that was a playoff of that video. Never, and in fact, the roots did the same thing to Biggie Smalls on their video, what they do. They did a parody of it the same way with the wine joints or what they did the so people were doing it for a long time. I thought was cool how, like, in they they did it um a recreation to the very finest detail, right? Because you remember in Tupac's Ville, they had Shock G in it from Digital Underground and some other folks, and then Biggie Small's video, you had Buster Rhymes was in it. Um, I think LL was in it, and it was just like just cameos. So anyway, I thought the I thought their video was better, you know. It was it was a different time anyway.
SPEAKER_01So what about Tupac? What about Tupac Trickord?
SPEAKER_02What you mean? Tupac's dope. Yo, you know, I will say this. What I don't understand is how they got away with shooting the guy. Oh, we're not gonna be. That's later on.
SPEAKER_01That's later on, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah, we'll we'll get to that part. Um, what I was gonna say, anyway. So that boy was huge then. I think the start of the East Coast war started when Tupac got shot, and I honestly think I can't say for sure Puffy ordered him to get shot. I think because of what happened in the club, because of his jet because you know, one thing we didn't cover, thank you, Rashonda. One thing we didn't cover is how they portrayed how Sean Combs was jealous of the artist, and he was jealous of Biggie and Tupac's relationship. I talked about it. He was like, Yo, wow. Oh, you talked about that? Okay, my bad. No, you're good. But and so one would one would think that Sean Combs got jealous of that because he had a lot of influence and caused him to get shot. But I can't say that for sure. But once Tupac got shot, it's like almost Tupac whole mindset on Biggie and East Coast flipped. Crazy, you know. I mean, man, I couldn't believe the time Tupac is from New York. Like, you know what I mean? So, anyway, um, but that's what the East Coast started.
SPEAKER_01Once Tupac got shot coming out of the elevator and stuff, and so uh they started a little beef and their little war, and then you had the source awards moment where if you don't know what the source is, that's uh a magazine started off as a magazine, and then they went to the source awards, kind of like the BET Awards, but it's just for it's supposed to be just for rap. And uh basically Def Row and Um uh Bad Boy were basically winning all the awards. And Suge Knight came on there and basically said, he didn't basically say it, he said, if you don't want your producer dancing on the video and getting on your way, come to Def Row. And Puff went back on there. He said, Yo, it's not about East Coast, like he was trying to be the peacekeeper, like yo, give it up for everybody, like clap for everybody. And Suge Knight was like, Nah, hell no, it's all about us, but uh it's interesting because then in the documentary, they said that Biggie or Puff was pissed at Suge for saying that, and he started messing around with gangsters, like Crips, like real life, what they do in the street gangsters, because he knew he needed some support from them to take down Suge Knight or to be able to handle Suge. Uh, and then we fast forward to the Tyson fight, the big night in 1995, where uh Mike Tyson came out of jail and he had his first fight, and Puff was there, Tupac was there, Suge was there, like every anybody who anybody at that time was at that fight. I remember watching that fight uh when it happened. That tells you about how old I am because I remember that fight actually happening, uh, and then the backlash of it, where basically what happened was Tupac was shot and he died, and there was all this controversy over who did it, and to this day, they still don't know who did it, still don't. And there was some backstory about how this dude who was a gangster of Crip uh did something to Pac, and Pac saw him at the fight, got into a fight with him, basically beat him down, and he was the cousin of some big known Crip guy. So that's how they think that the hit was called. But they think the hit was called by Puff, who paid, I think it was a hundred thousand, five hundred thousand, half a million, five hundred thousand to have it done. That is the story behind it. Your thoughts.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that um I think that's what happened prior to Tupac getting shot. There was uh something about one of the the members of the the Crip gang was at the fight, and that same dude they saw at the fight apparently had some beef with one of Tupac's crew. They tried to steal his chain or something like that.
SPEAKER_01There you go.
The Quad Studio Shooting And Fallout
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so they told Tupac, like, yo, he here at the fight. And so I remember they were saying, like, yo, Suck Knight was like, yo, we came where we we came and we saw what we wanted to see. Mike Tyson knocked it out of somebody, and then it was on that night. You know, we was ready, everybody was ready to fight after that. You know what I mean? So they saw the dude and they showed the video footage. Tupac was walking up there with his crew, and they just start kicking the stuff out of this dude, right? And so after the fight, after that skirmish, they went and they went back, got back to the dude who is the um friend of Puff Daddy's friend that introduced Puff Daddy to the Crip dude who was the lead, and it was like, yo, this was happening to that dude, cool. And so, right after that, um, later on that night, um, they had Pac and Suge Knight in the car, and then that's when they got shot up in the car and stuff. So um Suge Knight got shot. He ended up he got injured, minor injuries, I believe, but Tupac got the worst of it. He got shot several times, he got killed. So they said, I remember later in the show, they said after he got shot, man, like Puff Daddy and the son were just walking around like nothing happened, like it was all good, you know. I mean, which was weird, you know. Yeah, and um anyway, that's part of the reason why I think he did it, but anyway. Um, so anyway, Tupac gets shot, and then the the war just explodes after that. And what I thought was interesting, it showed the side of how Sean Combs could be very calculating because um before Tupac got shot and he came out with that song Hit Hem Up. And you know, Sean Combs is like, Biggie was like, Yo, I don't even want I remember that time too. Biggie was like, Yo, I don't even want to deal with it, I ain't got no time for that. And Sean was like, We got it, we gotta do something, man. Blah blah blah, blah, blah, blah. You know what I mean? And so, you know, he came out with Who Shot You or whatever. And so after Tupac got shot, they wanted to do some kind of promotion in the West Coast because that's when Biggie's second album, his double album came out, ready to um, Life After Death. One of the best. So they was gonna go to West Coast permitted, huh? One of the best albums, but go ahead, yeah. Um, but you know, his friends was like, Yo, don't go down there, whatever. They was trying to convince Biggie not to go down there, but Sean Combs like convinced him to go down there, and so you know, they went down there to promote the album. And I remember they was at some award show and they were getting booed over there, man. People were booing them and stuff like that. And so, unfortunately, um later that night, same thing, weird Puff Daddy and Biggie in the vehicle, they leave, they get shot up, Biggie gets killed, Sean Holmes doesn't get shot, and now Biggie Smalls is dead.
SPEAKER_01Well, were they were they in a vehicle together? Because I thought in the story that uh they convinced Biggie to stay in LA for another day. They were supposed to leave and go to uh London to get some kind of an award. I remember that, but I don't remember them separated. I thought Sean Combs was with them. Okay, uh, somebody gonna have to clarify. I could be wrong. Yeah, yeah. But I could be wrong, but yeah, so yeah, Biggie gets shot, and uh it was on like March sometime in March because they call it Biggie Day, March 9th or something like that. Yeah, uh the interesting thing in the thing in the clip that Puff made Biggie pay for his own funeral. Oh man, that like when you call about the demise of P. Diddy, like he said, this is gonna be the best, biggest funeral ever New York has ever seen. And then he was like, But basically, the money that Biggie made off the album, he basically took it and made him pay for the funeral.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, man, when I heard that, man, ooh, never knew that, did not know that. That I mean, yeah, I mean, I guess they're not gonna you know tell us that during that time, but to hear that was amazing. I'm sure if Sean Combs was responding, he would probably deny it or come up with something. But oh man, like I feel for his mom, man. Like, I wonder if she knew all this, and then she still had to maintain you know allegiance to him, whatever.
SPEAKER_01You know, yeah, I guess to get to continue getting money. That was probably the only way.
SPEAKER_02Well, let's I think one part I wanted to talk about that we might have not covered yet was Sean Combs' best friend. I can't remember his name, but when they started Bad Boy, he went in bad. Sean Combs went in with this other gentleman who was his best friend, and so they both were the owners or created bad boy. So when they created bad boy, Sean Combs gave his friend 25 of the company and gave the other 75 to his mom. Which is bad, yeah. So which is when bad boy continued to grow, something about Sean Combs had to go do something. He came in his best friend's office with a baseball vet and was like, Yo, I gotta do this thing, whatever. I need 25 of your company. And he was the dude felt like he was being threatened, man. He was like, Yo, I want to keep my 25. So he kind of forced him to sell his 25 off. And so later after that, he gets fired, just thrown down the street, yeah. You know, and that's supposed to be his friend, man.
SPEAKER_01Anyway, his name was Kurt uh Burr Burroughs, B-U-R-R-O-W. But yeah, yeah, uh, he's been there since the beginning. Like he said, he had 25 in his mom had the other 75. So I'm like, well, how much did Puff have?
SPEAKER_02He never, he never maybe there's a reason why, because I mean if something happened to him, they can't touch the company.
SPEAKER_01I mean, that's what LCs are for, but yeah, that's still that's still kind of wild that that happened, but uh yeah, that is an interesting part, and it looks like that dude Kurt when they showed him that dude looked like he's homeless. He was homeless at one point. Yeah, I don't know if that's just how he wants to look, but I'm like, man, that dude look homeless as hell. Like, what the hell? Uh yeah.
SPEAKER_02So anyway, after Biggie gets shot, you know, they um somewhere in the episode or several episodes, they kept portraying how Sean Combs secretly was jealous of his artists. He says something about he don't think is fair, like if he had their talent and his know-all, you know, he would be huge, is being wasted. So when Biggie died, and I thought about it at the time, but it really hit home after watching the series. It Ken says it was because all those people died at the celeb game. They didn't want to come back, they didn't want them to come. I see, yep. That makes sense. Okay, yep. So anyway, um, but I always thought to myself, I thought bad boy is over. Once Biggie got killed, I was like, Bad boy's over, right? There's no way, you know what I'm saying? Because at least Death Row, Def Row was Def Row had plenty. They had Dre, they had Snoop, and when they lost Pac, Pac was a huge loss, but he still had Snoop, right? Right, bad boy, who they have total, yeah. One Craig Mac Craig Mac was trying to jump to Death Row, which I'll touch on that real quick. Craig Mac was going to jump to Death Row, but after he what he saw with what happened to Biggie, he was like, he changed his mind. He said, No, forget that.
SPEAKER_01It was interesting because his wife was saying that they were having hit albums and not getting any money for it, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And you know what? And pause, man, because I tell you, man, the music industry is hella grimy, man. You how many times do you hear stories of people in the music industry make these hits like TLC? You know what I'm saying? They don't get paid, yeah. It's crazy, man. And I don't want to get ahead of my overall thoughts of the of this show, but anyway, that was just crazy.
SPEAKER_01We'll talk about that because you remember when he made Danny DeCain, the girl said that she had a lawyer. They said that you have 24 hours to get this done, to get this signed, or to sign this. That's all they gave him was 24 hours. And in that 24 hours, uh this girl brought it to a lawyer, and the lawyer started laughing at and said, This contract basically says that you'll be famous, but you'll never be rich. And he was, she was like, Yes, bad boy. Yep, I'll still sign it. She's bad boy at that time. I think putting myself in that situation at that age, at that time, I just went through this whole contest and everything. I would have signed it too. Like, did you be honest? Did you have you heard of this group? Yeah, Danny Kane. I never heard of him. Oh, yeah, Danny Kane had one or two albums. Uh, but the whole uh making the band was that's the MTV era right there. That's some that's when I was a teenager.
SPEAKER_02I mean, I've heard of making a band like Babs and Dialogue. I heard it up, but I never heard of the other group, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. No, no, the other day 26 and Danny DeCain are like the big groups that happen, and maybe it's just my age. Uh, I don't know Craig Let Mac died from AIDS. I looked it up after the yeah, I didn't know he died from AIDS either.
SPEAKER_02Sure, I'll have to look it up.
Vegas Night, Tupac’s Murder, Street Ties
SPEAKER_01Yeah, Cliff just said he looked that up after the documentary, anyway. Uh but yeah, so yeah, we'll try to move on and try to keep this uh under an hour and a half because we're already at an hour. So we'll try to keep already, yeah. We'll try to uh kind of wrap this up. Oh, he did have AIDS, my bad HIV AIDS. Wow, but yeah, but uh so uh man, it's hard to figure out where you move to from here because I think the next big thing was Cassidy, Cassie, Cassie. I keep saying Cassidy, Cassie, uh, and the sex scandals start, and that's when people started realizing uh or started coming out to who he was. And if you remember back when you were talking about uh there was a couple girls saying some things that Diddy was doing that was kind of weird, but like somebody said earlier in the comments, he was the gatekeeper for hip-hop back then after the biggie died, and he came out with mace, and you know, bad boy was jumping because they I think were making good commercial rap and some kind of non-commercial rap because that's when no way out came out. When I I guess that's P. Diddy's album. I don't know, it was trash, I don't know whose album, but they had making or or uh all about the Benjamins on that, which is probably one of the biggest songs. They had Lil Kim at that time, been around the world, yeah, yeah. So, and then Mace at that time, so they were really big, and then it's funny because all these videos came out with notorious on it, like No Way Out, All About the Benjamins, Mo Money, Mo Problems. What was that? Was that that song? More money, more problems. That was on Biggie's album, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But all these videos after Biggie died came out, and so like bad boy was huge, so he was like gatekeeping the industry, and like people said, Diddy couldn't walk out of the studio without somebody saying, like, oh, here's my record. Hey, listen to my rap and start spitting bars from him. So they said his head started blowing up, which I can I mean, with fame, yeah. I mean, just like money, it doesn't make you it doesn't change who you are, it just makes you a bigger or whatever else you were gonna be. I think fame does the same thing, and uh a crucial part, I think, uh, was when he was really big, he went out to Harlem to go meet with the people, to go what they said, be with the people. And he was trying on coats and giving hugs and taking pictures, and then they went inside the car. He was like, Man, I need some hand sanitizer. I need I need to go take a hot flaming shower, boiling water to get all this off of me, talking about people that he was interacting with. But while he was interacting with him, he was acting like he's from Harlem, like he's a part of them. Very, very, very interesting how that happened. And it's interesting to me, like how many other artists do the exact same thing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, when I heard that, man, I was like, man, that was that was very disheartening for me, man, when I heard that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02You know, it somebody mentioned something about only when he got to his lowest point, did he decide the only people that would still love him was people from Harlem. And that's when he went back. You know what I mean? He went back to where it started. You know what I mean? Because I was wondering, like, why is this dude like riding in the streets, whatever? But that's the only place he knew that people weren't going to turn their back on him. And it worked because we're kind of getting ahead, but um, when the um the trial happened, which I thought was brilliant, but messed up at the same time, how they were using public opinion to kind of influence the case. You know, they had people out there with free puff shirts on and all that stuff.
SPEAKER_01And I wonder if they paid those people to be there.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, but I think there were some people that actually was loyal to him that was doing that too. I don't think it was all getting paid, yeah. But um, you know, like you said, is a this is a long show. It's I'm trying to find a way to kind of come to a to a to an end point here, but there were a lot of other different stories that we would go forever, we could go on forever talking about, like the story about Little Rod, that producer. That was sad, yeah. You know what I mean? Let me ask you up front. Um, and when I mean Little Rod for folks who's listening, Little Rod was the producer that worked with Puff for a while, um, making some hits, and um he did his whole was one of the ones that he produced his whole last album, diddy's last album. That album was trash, but anyway, yeah. Um, he went he came forward and he said that P. Diddy apparently, like, man, when that girl asked some 55,000 for the for her custody battle, but he claimed that P. Diddy drugged him and sexually assaulted him. And he said something about when he knew that happened, he said he felt weird, talked to the manager. I forgot the manager's name, but she was like just kind of played it off. But what really struck me is when he said I just went back to work, you know. I mean, he said I was gonna be producer of the year, yeah. You know what I mean? It's like he just ignored all the stuff he was saying of hearing from Puff and what may have happened to him. And he just said, you know, just for the money, because he said he had to support his family, he had to support his family, he needed the money, and you know, anytime somebody makes accusations against somebody famous, you always think it's a payday, you know. But what was interesting is when they played all the different voice recordings from from P. Diddy, man to to you know, I mean, those are the type of recordings you don't send to another man, that's like you send it to a lover, you know.
Life After Death And Biggie’s Murder
SPEAKER_01I mean, uh, it's that's what seems strange to me, and then some of it was just like very manipulative because, like, you know, right, like if you owe somebody money, usually you duck and dodge them. He was like overly communicating, but not like, hey, I got you, man, I got you. You gotta do this and gotta do that, but I got you. I man, you gotta trust me, baby. You gotta trust me. Little, what what do you call him? Little Leroy or something like that, like Leroy or something, like, hey man, like oh very manipulating type of communication. And it's like if if he owes you money, and this is P. Diddy, you're like, all right, big homie, thanks for calling me. Appreciate it. Because if somebody's ducking and dodging you, and then you see them, you're ready to fight them, you're ready to like you don't care what they say, you're like, give my money, but it's weird, and y'all could take this for yourselves if you owe somebody money, overly communicating and dodging and ducking around the question, but still communicating with them. You could carry on that money for a long time that you want. Because, and if you're uh bigger than them, what Cliff was talking about. Um, there was a girl in his group when he made that group that you weren't aware of, Dirty Money, with the two girls in him. Uh Dirty Money, and he was looking for people to help defend him. And he was and that girl was like, Hey, cool, but I'm battling custody trying to get my son or daughter. Can you loan me five grand so I can get a better lawyer? He's like, Oh, I ain't got the money. But hey, if somebody come ask you a question, man, can you speak positive about me? It's like, bro, what the fuck? And she was even like, All right, like, that's ditty, that's ditty. And I think you reach a shame, too. But I think you reach a level where that happens, and like little rod said, like, all he was thinking about was if I F this up, I'll never get another opportunity again. So I have to sit here and deal with everything that's happening and that's going on because if I say anything, I'm done. I'm done. And you have to keep that relationship. And it's sad, man. Sad that you would do all that, but you remember he said he's working with what two years or something like that. Oh, bro, the funniest part I just thought about it. You remember when they were trying to record? And he said, Yo, a simple verse would take like three, four weeks, and they showed Diddy trying to do that verse. Oh my god, he couldn't do four words. And the funny part was he tried to help Diddy was like, Hey, do it this way. He's like, bro, don't do that, don't do that. Like, I got it, I got it. I was like, He said, If I ain't hot, you ain't hot.
SPEAKER_02But that just shows that just reinforces that stuff that he did on uh making the band and the parody from Dave Chappelle is true, that's all true.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. That that you know what it's sad that he did that to young people, and we could talk about the making the band thing, but uh he pretty much helped them and then excuse my language, but over at the same time. Because you don't, I couldn't tell you who nothing like that girl who came back on there, but she ain't never came out after that. No, no, no, no. The girl who said that the white girl, uh Aubrey, Audrey, yeah, yeah. She never heard about her again. That is the day 26 people never heard about them ever again.
SPEAKER_02Day 26 never heard of them either.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so it's sad, man. It's like Diddy the only one. Mace, I mean, he got the thing with Cameron, but he like disappeared. And is I I think I asked you that yesterday, was like, why ain't Mace ever saying anything? Because he seemed like he would have been, or maybe Mace was really distant from him. And you remember Mace left and then turned really, really religious. Makes you want to think why he turned religious. Maybe he saw some things that he was just like, Oh, shoot, I need to start asking for forgiveness.
SPEAKER_02Yep, and this it's almost similar to um all those people. That's what you know what, Cliff, you read my mind. That's what I was gonna say. All these people that work for Puff, his manager, even like Mary J, Jodice, Mace, Black Rob, you name it. Like, there were more people that saw something, but a lot of those people never came forward. It's because they really didn't see anything or they didn't want to be involved. You know what I mean? Like, who was it? What was they talking about? Um, yeah, Jerry, it was the Epstein Files, right? You know, talking about all the famous people that was at the house. You know, I've hey Puff Daddy was working with Justin Bieber, he was working with Usher. I mean, the stuff that he was talking about, man, like there are people out there who are willing to sell their soul just to be famous and give up their morals for it. Right. And that's that is a you know, and I I will I gave it a lot of thought the other night, my wife, and it kind of reminds me of it goes beyond the music industry. You know, I mean, let's just talk at our level, let's just talk about folks who are in certain positions, um, you know, because we're military folk. You talk about like generals, colonels, command chiefs, chiefs, senior NCOs, NCOs that they get put in these positions of power, and you know, either they never had that type of power or they don't know how to handle it, and they see an opportunity and they use their power to manipulate people. And sometimes they get caught, but a lot of times they get away with it, and a lot of times the people who benefit from their power they don't see nothing wrong with it because they're winning, right? They don't care it hurts somebody else or it harms their morals, right? How many times did you have the young defender who ended up getting days off all the time just because they were in with the flight chief or whatever? Right, right, right, right, right. You know what I mean? And it's like for that one person, they didn't care because they was like, yo, I just I'm doing good at my job, whatever. But from the outside, looking in, you like that's foul, man. Like you getting favored because of it. Ken Cliff says, right, like that producer, he said he woke up somewhere at times. Yeah, oh man, that was tough hearing that. I'm not selling my soul for fame money. I would get a regular job before I do that, man. But can Kenny, I appreciate that, but I tell you, man, I think we are Charles Davis. What's up, brother? Charles Davis says it's realistic that someone didn't see anything.
SPEAKER_01Hmm, I didn't know my AU basketball, AU basketball coach.
SPEAKER_02AU basketball coach was a whole drug distributor. Dang, bro. Look up Curtis Malone. All right. I'm not saying you guys would do it, I'm not saying I would do it, but I think we all at some point were faced with that decision, maybe on a smaller or a larger level. And if you're so if you're at a point where you're just trying to get in the door, that is a tough decision to make, especially depending on what they're telling you to do. If somebody said, hey, look, if you want to be in this job or this position that you've been trying to get into, that a normal person would take 30 years. For for you, I can do it to you right now, and it took you two years. All I need you to do is say this about Pete. It's hard, especially if I don't know you. I'll be like, Yeah, I'll say it. Even though I know it's morally wrong. But anyway, that was that was that's what I gleaned from the whole series. You know, one the sad thing is P. Diddy's gonna get out of jail quick. And the interesting thing is, I'm curious how many people are gonna treat him like R. Kelly. Some people listen to R. Kelly give him a pass, some people don't. Will P. Diddy be welcomed back into the fold? Me personally, they need to take his star off the dang sidewalk. Oh, yeah. That dude should be. I mean, look at Bill Cosby, man. What they did to Bill Cosby, man. Yeah, like that dude should nobody should be dealing with P. Diddy any longer. And I'm telling you, can these look? I'm looking in the camera. All you 90s era artists that I looked up to that I have memories with, can y'all please stop with this nonsense? Y'all messing up the 90s, bro. I mean, you got R. Kelly, you got P. Diddy. Now who else is left, man?
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_02I mean, dad, I can't, I ain't gonna have enough money, me, many people to listen to anymore. You got what you call them? Um, soul for real came out, said they were done wrong in their contract. I mean, like, come on, y'all.
SPEAKER_01I think that happened.
SPEAKER_02Can y'all stop this?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, anyway. Uh I say, uh, as we close this out, I just want to give my opinion, hear your opinion. Uh, does this make you think more that he is guilty of more things, or do you think the jury decision was correct?
SPEAKER_02Yes to both. No, no, I'm sorry, yes and no to the both. I think the jury got it wrong.
SPEAKER_01Dang.
SPEAKER_02I think they made it. I think they I think they made they as in a judge made a the wrong decision not to sequester them.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think that hurt. I think that hurt. Because they were influenced. I mean, I I agree. I don't know how you get justice for that, even if you I mean, he is a man with so much power and so much money.
SPEAKER_02Who knows how much he spent on that team of lawyers, but apparently it worked. I mean, he'll do they said 50 months, time served. He probably gonna be out in a year, maybe.
SPEAKER_01If that, yeah.
Money, Contracts, And Industry Power
SPEAKER_02Who knows? Yeah, and it's a shame. Because, like, that one girl, like for me, I'm not, I won't profess to say 100%. I know, but the producer, I believe something went wrong there. Oh, yeah, I believe that. Yeah, I believe that just by looking, I mean, unless he's a good actor. Um, old girl, um, his first the first girl he went after, I'm trying to remember her name, not Capricorn, because Capricorn's a little shaky. I'm not saying she's lying, but when the juror said her her integrity was in question, I can believe that because her stuff was kind of far-fetched in a way, you know what I mean? Talking about my wife and I had a debate last night. Remember how she said she was kidnapped?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, right?
SPEAKER_02Because of Kid Cuddy, right? So I'm like, to me, kidnapped is all right, he had a if I came over to your house and said, yo, you know what I'm saying? Uh Charles Davis acting sideways, blah, blah, blah. I don't even know what Charles did. Well, we're going over there right now. You know, did she say to P. Diddy, I want to go? And he says, get your ass in the car.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_02Then that's kidnapping. Right. But if he just, if she he got a gun, she just got in the car with him. I mean, she's his what uh business manager, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Manager, you know, that's where uh and I think Cliff is right to the point that all these people basically enabled it because they were eating off them. Yep, and they were getting paid, or some were getting paid, and like, hey, I'm not messing up. And this goes back to politicians, this goes to everybody. I'm not messing up my money that puts food on my table for other people, and it's sad, it's very, very sad. And like what Cliff said, he'd rather just go get a regular job to deal with that. But other people will just be like, I am not messing up what either is going to come to me good or what is going good, no matter what happens. And to your point, they don't care about all that morals and values and all this stuff goes right out the window when money is involved, and when money is what makes you gives you the lifestyle that you have that you probably never had, you are willing to do that. It is very, very, very sad, very sad. Yeah, uh, yo fellas, word on the street was Aaron Hall was wrapped up with Diddy stuff. Listen to some of his lyrics to his song.
SPEAKER_02No, stop it.
SPEAKER_01I never listened to Aaron Hall.
SPEAKER_02I liked I Miss You Man. Can we stop with all you 90s artists, man? Who else is next? Keith Sweat.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I never heard that, but uh, but yeah, uh, so I don't think this made me think that he did it or what they accused him of. I think if they would have put domestic violence on the table, definitely would have been there. But I think without them putting domestic violence, I think what he was guilty of was because back to the Cassie situation, I think she liked or went along with some of the things that happened. Not all of it, it's sad, it's sad, especially when you hear from the uh what do you call himself, a gigolo or basically a prostitute? That's what he called himself. But uh, I mean, man, but uh basically he's a prostitute when he said all that stuff he did. Uh he said Diddy used to watch him have yeah, that's creepy and crazy. But you know, like they said, Diddy is not, you cannot find somebody guilty for being an asshole or being a bad person or having no morals or having no values, you cannot go to jail for that. And for everything they try to hit him up with, most of that stuff was he's just the overall piece of shit. Kind of late. Yeah, and you can't be guilty of be, or you can't go to jail for being a POS.
SPEAKER_02It's difficult. A lot of stuff, a lot of accusations between um Capricorn, Aubrey, Little Rod, and the one lady in the beginning of the show. It's difficult to prove someone sexually assaulted you without a lot of evidence, especially when it's a celebrity like that. And in the end, like all he was he wasn't guilty of that. He was guilty of like sex, you know, for trafficking over state, sex trafficking over state, which really ain't that big a deal. And if you remember at the end of the show, his team was like, they won. They like like they like this is a big victory, like you know what I mean. Like, yeah, it's like justice was not served, man. Right. That dude, I what 50 Cent said he's a dangerous man. I agree with him. I agree, he's a dangerous man, and I thought it was interesting how, and I thought it was well done too, how they put a collage of each event he was involved in between the basketball court incident to the to the shootout in the club with J Lo and Sean, to I forgot the incident after that, and then this last one, right? He always found a way to get out of it, every single time. And this is the one time they had a chance to nail him, and they couldn't. They got him on a lesser one, and he's gonna be back on the street, and he's gonna keep doing it, he just gonna be smarter about it, and then people and then every single person that was on that joint, which is interesting too. Every single person on that joint was employed by him, but are no longer employed by him.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, every single person.
SPEAKER_02So one person could believe could assume they just saw it because they ain't working for him no more.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, to clear point. I bet J Lo knows so much. Oh, yeah. Oh, she knows. Oh, yeah, she was smart though.
SPEAKER_02I give J Lo credit, she was out, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? He's like, You ain't messing up my career, I'm out. Yeah, yeah, for real, for real. Yeah, anyway. It's a good series, though. Good series, real good. Shout out to 50 Cent Curt, aka Curtis Jackson, man. Like, he did a really good job. I thought it was gonna be something funny, like a parody or something, but it was really, really well done. Well done. It was real good, very enlightening.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it was really well, uh, very well done, uh, and pretty good. But if y'all ain't seen it, there's our opinion about it. Uh, go back and watch this and then watch the episode, see what we miss. Hit us up in the comments on the YouTube, let us know what it is. Uh, don't forget the contest is starting, I guess, on Sunday now. Uh, we'll start the contest for the giveaways coming up for y'all. So uh be prepared for that. Come to the live show on Sunday. If you want to participate in that, we'll put out a little note to let y'all know what time we're going on. And it'd be a regular Sunday show, but before football, of course. So maybe an hour, hour and a half before football. Let y'all know, come join December's. That we're gonna get back, give y'all some Christmas presents and stuff like that. If y'all are listening to the show, uh, I wasn't going to watch it, but both of y'all got me one. Yeah, you gotta see it, bruh. Charles is pretty good. It's long, four hours, but it's pretty good. Uh, and brings you back to a time that you probably remember some stuff. But anyway, unpopular celebrities, y'all. Philly, you got your last words?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I'll see y'all on Sunday, man. Great time to win some gifts. And not only that, make sure in order to be eligible, you gotta be in the chat. You gotta be listening live at that time. You gotta make sure you follow us on all the social media platforms. There's specific things, requirements you have to meet in order to be eligible for the prize. But just don't come for the prize, just come listen to your boys, man. As always, man, we come near the end of the year. We appreciate everybody who jumped on today. All the people on YouTube, all the people on Facebook, our regular folks. Nice to hear from Faith Donovan again, Charles Davis, Freddie Kincaid, Ken Cliff. We appreciate y'all, fam, and we will see y'all on Sunday.
Image, Harlem Visits, And Public Perception
SPEAKER_01And as always, new subscriber, Rashawn Miller. Thank you for being part of the team, the UPC squad, everybody else on the YouTube, and uh good football games this weekend, too. So make sure y'all watch that. We out of here. Peace, peace, peace.
