What does it take to be the Diversity Diva and live your life unapologetically? Consumers Energy Chief Diversity Officer and VP Angela Thompkins tells us.
What does it take to be the Diversity Diva and live your life unapologetically? Consumers Energy Chief Diversity Officer and VP Angela Thompkins tells us.
Bill Krieger (Host)
Hello, everyone and welcome to mi u us a wellbeing podcast. It's another wellbeing Wednesday here at Consumers Energy. And I'm your host bill Krieger. Today, my guest is Angela Tompkins. She's chief diversity officer and vice president here at Consumers Energy. Many of us know her as the diversity diva. So Angela, if you'd Introduce yourself, we'll get the conversation started.
Angela Thompkins
Thanks, Bill for having me. It is a pleasure to be back with you again, having this conversation. So I am grateful to have the position of Vice President and Chief Diversity Officer for CMS energy. And as you stated that diversity diva is how I refer to myself. And I say that somewhat as a joke but that literally is my name on social media. So if you follow me on Instagram, I am the diversity underscore diva with a why. And I chose that name, intentionally very deliberate about that. I'm diva is something that I own in my personal life is who I am, that often has, you know, negative context, depending on your experience with the word Some people think it's what do I say not a nice way to describe somebody, but I fully embrace it. And so when I think of a diva diva, or what that means, for me is just really stepping out and boldly in my authenticity. And so I am one I love fashion. Fashion is very subjective. But you know, I love fashion, I love makeup, I love to live and like that creative space. And so when I think of diva, for me, it's just being bold, I wear a lot of red lipstick, I wear high heels I wear and so for me, it's just, you know, being bold and unapologetic, and who I am I you know, color outside the lines, I don't believe in being boxed into anyone else's boundaries or descriptions for who I am, who I should be. I, you know, live my life according to my rules. And so it was important for me as I do and lead this work to just own that and stand in it. And so often posts, you know, when I'm done in my personal life on social media, but sometimes I do postings that are related to work in what I do, but even you know, I live my life. You know, very unapologetic, you know, and so I just thought diversity diva, that is who I am, fully and so I embrace the word.
Bill Krieger (Host)
So those of us who know, you know that this isn't just talk, this is this is true, it's the truth. And anyone who knows, you knows that they know you like who you are. And that's why we love you, Angela. Thank you. So last year, Around this time, sort of kind of, we did a podcast, and you were the director of diversity, equity inclusion here at consumers in my goodness, what a difference a year can make, not only in all the things that have happened over the past year, but some of the great things that have happened in one of those great things is, as we said, You are Vice President and Chief Diversity Officer now. Consumers Energy So can you talk a little bit about your journey to where you are because I know this has been a passion of yours for a long time. Yeah, so
Angela Thompkins
the work has definitely been, you know, a passion of mine for a very long time. And I think, you know, I always say, hindsight is 2020 I think, you know, after, you know, I talk about standing boldly and authentically in yourself. The second thing that I say is, you know, that, you know, hindsight is always 2020. While I didn't know it, understand that at the time, you know, I was meant for this moment, my entire career and journey has really prepared me for you know, this point in time where we are socially where we are, you know, in terms of diversity, equity, inclusion and belonging at the company. I started out and I you know, I know I've shared this before, but I started out as an attorney and inspired by the Claire Huxtable from the coffee show, to be a lawyer. And again, me being who I am. I love Claire helps the ball because she was sassy. Because I love the way she dressed. She was a mom, you know, but she was also loving. She was funny, and she just so happened to be a lawyer. Right? And so I think I wanted to be a lawyer about all the wrong reasons. But nonetheless, I went law school and the study of law and the practice of law are two totally different things until after law school and practicing law I started out as a prosecutor, I realized very quickly that it wasn't something I wanted to do for the rest of my life, in particular, the research and the writing that piece of it, I did not enjoy it. But what I did enjoy is what I call the theatrical of it. I really enjoy the courtrooms I love trial. And as a prosecutor, you know, that really is job you have trial on most days. But in order to have the trial, you have to prepare, which involves the research and the writing. So I knew that was a piece of it that I enjoyed, and what I again, hindsight and reflecting that what I enjoyed about it is something happened, right, there was something and then there was two different views of what happened, right. And so it was all about creating space for each side to present their version of what happened. And so it's always been important for me, throughout my career, the various jobs that I've had is to be that voice for the underdog, or for you know, people that are marginalized, underrepresented, don't have a seat at the table. So you know, I left the prosecutor's office, I worked in automotive and labor relations, I was a lobbyist. In the automotive industry, I was a adjunct professor. Um, so I've done a lot of things. But when I look back, every row that I had one, I definitely worked in my passion, being that voice for people who didn't necessarily have a voice. And so it was when I was working for the Fair Housing center of Metropolitan Detroit, that I realized that diversity was it for me. And so, you know, it was the law that I was doing, but, you know, litigation against financial institutions that were engaged in predatory lending, redlining practices. And so that is really where my diversity journey began, I helped those companies build diversity programs, as a result of settlement agreements for those losses. And so again, hindsight is always 2020. I say, no path is linear, nobody's experience, you know, to practice, diversity, equity, inclusion is going to be the same. But that's my journey where it began for me. And what I know is that every role that I had, that I enjoy that I loved, it was one where I could stand in my passion for being that voice for other people. And so all of that prepared me to be in this row and do this work today.
Bill Krieger (Host)
So we've talked about this a lot, outside of the podcast, for sure. Is that there, we don't believe anyway, that there's instances everything happens for a reason. And so I think that's a great example of all of the things that you do along your path, bring you to the point that you're at right now, for whatever reason that is, and what what a great story. You know, when you talk about being a prosecutor, or, you know, being in the courtroom and how that's the utricle I kind of see maybe a little bit of diva Ernie side of you as well.
Angela Thompkins
Yes, I you know, actually, I think that that comes out. Oftentimes, when I am, you know, having discussions or conversations with people, especially when you're trying to understand a different point of view. I think that attorney does come out with questioning and you know, people may I really have to watch for this, because it's a learned skill. And so when I you know, I when I am leveraging that skill, people sometimes feel like you are interrogating them and I'm I'm honestly curious. And so I do sometimes have to watch that when I am seeking to understand a different perspective.
Bill Krieger (Host)
But I get that as a former police officer and a former military police officer, specifically, I know what you're talking about there. So let's talk a little bit about some of the changes that you have seen take place, I would say specifically over the maybe the past year to give you hope in this DNI space.
Angela Thompkins
Yeah, you know, there are a couple of things. One that you know is really top of mind for me as I reflect back on the last year and you know, I will consider it you know, a success and accomplishment for us Wow, for some it may not feel like it but we have I've had a lot of courageous conversations across the organization over the last year, many of them difficult. And you know, the difficulty why I see it as a success is the difficulty brings growth. You know, when you're never trying to change people's beliefs are perspectives. But you know, there's growth in those tension points when the conversations are difficult when maybe sometimes it even gets heated. When we move in that space of debate versus dialogue, we always want to keep it in the space of dialogue. But we are humans, right, until sometimes it does enter into debate, but I am hopeful and happy that we, as an organization have been having these conversations, because what it signals for me is a safe space, people would not open up and even begin to have the discussions if they didn't feel that it was a safe place. And if you think maybe two, even a year ago, we were not having the conversations across the organization at the level that we are today. So it shows a lot of growth, it shows safety. And what it also shows me is that there is a shift in behavior and people's willingness to even learn and engage. And here's something different. So I'm hopeful that we can continue what I also am very grateful about that, you know, I've seen over the past year, even though we have a DDI strategy, where we are looking to embed diversity, equity and inclusion into everything we do across the company, which means we're looking at, you know, all of our processes through that dei lens. There are many, you know, there's 1000s of processes across the company, we there's no way we can review all of them in year one, right? It's a multi year strategy until we get through every single process. But what is happening is people are doing it on their own. Before, before we even have, you know, the formal dei process review, people are looking at their work, they're looking at things differently there. And so that just gives me great hope, too, that we are moving together at a rate faster than we probably realize that you know, people really are understanding the Ei beyond representation. And our co workers are starting to see themselves as a part of our dei journey, no matter how they self identify, it's all of us. We're all in this together. And before we can move forward, we must all start at the starting line together. And so that, you know gives me a lot of hope, as I look back and reflect over the last year of where we've come and what we've accomplished.
Bill Krieger (Host)
And I want to go back a little bit when you say safe space, because when you when you were talking before you said it was popping into my head that you're right, people aren't going to come forward and have these difficult conversations, they don't feel safe. And one of the things as a team that that started out, was our open office hours on Friday, the dei Open Office Hours, I'm gonna be honest with you here. When we first did it in like one or two people would show up, I thought, what are we doing? Like, what's the purpose, but this thing has really grown. And people come there and they talk about things that I know, in my 27 years, we have not talked about before and they've gotten resolution on it. And whether or not they got the answer they wanted. Right got the answer they needed. Yeah. And they do feel safe in that space. Are you getting good feedback on that?
Angela Thompkins
Oh, my goodness, I can't tell you the number of you know, people who are grateful for the opportunity to and a lot of people refer to it as I had this stupid question. I had this dumb question or, you know, I was embarrassed because I didn't get it. Right. And so that is what I hear a lot is that, you know, I had this I'm to your point, you know, 20 years was I never would have asked anybody to do something I never would have even talked about or discuss that work. And beyond that, you know, taking it outside of work. People are having some aha moments at work that they're taking home and sharing with their families and having different conversations even at home with their families. And so, I am hearing a lot of feedback from our co workers just across the enterprise around you know, they're grateful that they have the safe space and the opportunity to ask the questions and there are right no dumb questions. I leave this work. I'm responsible for executing this strategy across the company, I still have questions and I still make mistakes. And I still so right, it's all, we just have to give each other grace and learn and grow in this together.
Bill Krieger (Host)
Yes. And I think giving each other Grace is such a great way to say that. Because we are all learning in here you in the position you're at can say, honestly, hey, I don't know all the answers, that really helps a lot of other people out who are not quite as far along in their journey. So I'm sure that they appreciate that. Something else I wanted to talk about, though, is that when this airs, we will be in October, and that is disabilities in employment month. Also, our capable employee resource group will be having their abilities in Action Conference. So I did want to talk a little bit about dti and how that's tied into disabilities or other abilities.
Angela Thompkins
Yeah, so great, I'm so glad you bring this up bill, just for a number of different reasons. But oftentimes, when people think about diversity, they instantly think of a race, or gender, maybe veteran status. But there's so many dimensions of diversity, beyond race and gender and ability is, you know, one that I think may be lagging in the discussion behind some of the other diversity, demographics. And what is so important, I think, as we think about ability, again, even in this space, if we are thinking about ability, people tend to only think about visible what they can see, right and diversity, we often no matter the demographic, we get stuck on what we see. But when we talk about ability, there's also those invisible challenges, right that people have, and I myself have an invisible disability, and I just, you know, share a story. My mom has an invisible disability as well, and is partially this able, because of that, and my father has been ill, and he typically helps with the care of my mom, with him being ill, he wasn't able to do that until my mom had been staying with me for a couple of weeks over the summer. And it really, you know, was an eye opening moment for me, because I typically see my mom, as, you know, um, you know, my mom, right, and we hang out together, we, we talk we share, but being in the space of caring for her, um, with something I could not see was very difficult and challenging. Um, you know, it wasn't, you know, prop your leg up, and you know, you'll feel better or, you know, it's something that I could not see and very difficult to understand. And so, it just for me, you know, again, I believe everything happens for a reason, there are no accidents, there are no coincidences, everything, you know, happens. And so I think for me, what that allows me to do is have a lot more care, empathy and understanding of invisible disabilities, although I have one myself only say, from the lens of me and what I need, right? But how do you care for someone that has an invisible disability? And so I learned a lot about you know, not only myself, but how people suffer through and visible disabilities. And so she was afraid to ask for help and afraid to express what she was going through because of the label that may have been placed on her and so I had to go to the doctor's appointment with her and I had to verbalize to the doctor what she was experiencing what she was feeling. Although she was going through it, it was hard for her to even say it because she was afraid of what label may be placed on her. Now when we have a stomach ache while we have you know, something that hurts we're never afraid to say it right? We we want to go get it taken care of. And so when you have that invisible disability, particularly some emotional challenges, we've got to you know, work collectively as a society to create that safe space and to help remove that stigma because it is an illness and it needs attention and treatment. Just like you know, you stub your toe or anything else that may have physical pain. We've got to create that space and help people, you know, have that safe space to say, ouch, I need some help with something that's invisible.
Bill Krieger (Host)
Well, and I really think it does go back to showing grace, you know, yeah, myself, like I can understand what you're saying is, I have PTSD. And sometimes if I'm in a meeting, and I feel this panic attack coming on, I need to abruptly get up and walk out. And, um, you know, thankfully, people have shown me grace in not not even understanding what was going on. But knowing that I wouldn't just leave if you're right, yeah, reason at all. And I can see that with others as well. And it's interesting that you say, you know, we look at our disabilities through the lens of ourselves. And sometimes we don't think about there are other people out there who who have the same exact thing. Yeah. Yeah. And we don't we don't look at it that way. So I appreciate you kind of, you know, putting that out there. And, of course, sharing your, you know, personal story around that in I love the idea of, you know, DNI isn't just what we can see. You know, I think we talked about that early on in this conversation about when we'd say DNI, we immediately think of race of gender of things that we can, that we can see and not the things that we can. So I appreciate you bringing that out. You know, I was curious to, you know, we talked a little bit about your journey. And we talked a bit about some of the changes over the last year. What do you see Angela Tompkins opinion? What do you see as the future of our company, and then really, of our country in this space, based on what you're seeing today?
Angela Thompkins
Yeah, so one thing I know to be true. And there's many studies articles that are out there that talk about millennials, and Gen Z, that generation that's coming behind the millennials, and it's their expectation and tolerance, or I guess, lack of tolerance. When diversity, equity, inclusion and belonging are not present, right. So, you know, my hope and what I see for both inside the company and outside the company, I think we're moving toward, you know, just a world that is more accepting and belonging of all difference. When you just think about the, you know, next generations that are coming behind us, they have an expectation for inclusion and belonging, not a hope for it, but an expectation for it. And so, you know, I am hopeful that, you know, our world will be more caring, we'll have a lot more empathy for one another. I also see that, you know, I think as long term but in the shorter term, I also see that within our company, because as I started out, as we begin to have the conversations, you know, difficult at times, what I see is that people are learning and experiencing things beyond their own lens and experience, and that no matter what, that creates a different perspective for people, right. So I learned something and some information I didn't have before this discussion, no matter how difficult the discussion was, I can't help but be changed because of what I know and understand. And it takes everybody a different amount of time, it takes, you know, everybody has to, it's a personal journey, right? We're all going through this, at our own pace, and on our own path. And in diversity, it's always a journey with the destination never to be reached, right? We're always going to be growing, evolving learning. And so I am incredibly hopeful. And I think that you know, we are as a company going to get to a place where I think and difference is always going to be there but I think that respect and how we appreciate that difference will quickly shift and change to one of more grace and caring I would say grace in space right? Because I think Grace is you know, the the care that empathy but then you also have to offer the space once you understand different this space for different to actually come in and live and thrive. And so they this spacing Grace is something that we will see very soon across the company as people understand and engage in dei in a way that they never have before.
Bill Krieger (Host)
And I love that grace in space. I'm gonna actually have a whiteboard behind me. I'm gonna write that up there. I have all my little statements of the very real like that grace in space. Because they do go hand in hand.
Angela Thompkins
Yeah, I saw that, um, somewhere in one of our company communications, it said space and grace. And it was like quoted by Angela Tompkins. I thought that was funny. But I do I say that you'll hear me say that a lot. And I truly believe you know, that that is, once we give people grace, we then have to allow the space.
Bill Krieger (Host)
Absolutely. In Um, so, you know, we've been talking Can you believe us for almost 45 minutes now? Because sometimes when you're having fun, it does it does I I'm really enjoying this. However, we do have to come to the close. At some point, we're getting close to that point. And so before I do that, though, I just want to say thank you, this has been an amazing conversation, as always, but is there anything that you would like to leave the audience with as we close out the podcast?
Angela Thompkins
Yeah, two things. The first, I just want to say thank you, Bill, for having me, thank you for you know, this podcast for allowing people to come on and share their stories give their testimonies, you really have done an amazing job creating the platform for people. And I think we have talked about this privately. But you know, and sharing your testimony, and your trauma is also therapeutic for the person that is talking and sharing, we know that the listeners often get help as they listen. But it's also I think, you know, therapy for the, the guest on your podcast. So just thank you for the platform and for allowing the space for the conversations. But what I offer, you know, as closing remarks, to all of your listeners is that this journey, as I said before, is one you know, it's a destination never to be reached. And so we all have to start, we all have to start somewhere. And don't start with the hard stuff. You know, start small, but just start have conversations with people that you are close to you don't have to start that difficult conversation with somebody you don't know and who has, you know, all these things that are different, maybe start with people that are close to you to say, this frightens me, this is why it frightens me this is why it's difficult for me, but just start somewhere is one thing. And then I always say you know, it's okay. Right? It's okay. where you are, you are where you are, for a reason. Don't expect to be in the same place as the person next to you or the people on your team. It's okay, wherever you are, whatever you need to learn. We all have unconscious bias. Be aware with that, except that understand how to mitigate your unconscious bias. There's nothing wrong with you for having unconscious bias. And then I just would encourage everybody to ask yourself every day every situation, can I make a difference? You know, where can I make a difference? How can I make a difference? Maybe where you start? is being open to a different perspective being a when you think you know the answer, you have the solution, you have a way forward with a problem, you know, in the workplace, just take an extra step and say, How can I make a difference? Maybe you don't change your perspective or your plan. But you've made a difference by giving someone else an opportunity to express what's on their mind to feel her to feel valued, that they contributed to the discussion. So I would challenge everyone listening every day is to just ask yourself, you know, how can I make a difference? That is one thing that I challenge myself with every single day, I write in a gratitude journal every day. And that's how I end my day, I try to end my day, in gratitude reflect on the day and I look for opportunities and moments to make a difference and to have encourage everyone out there to just make a small difference for someone every day.
Bill Krieger (Host)
And I really appreciate that. The two things I heard there one was, you don't have to start out with the hard stuff. start out small and work your way up. But But ask yourself every day how you can make a difference. And I appreciate that. And we'll subscribe to that and let you know how that goes for me. All right. So thanks again, Angela for taking time out to be on the program. I look forward to doing this again soon.
Angela Thompkins
Let's not wait a whole year.
Bill Krieger (Host)
Yes, Yes, we will. I will work to get on your calendar. A little bit earlier, maybe maybe quarterly or something because I think it's great for people to hear from you.
Angela Thompkins
Thank you Bill so much. You are doing an amazing job. You are truly making a difference and helping change lives. So thank you for everything you are doing.
Bill Krieger (Host)
And thank you to the audience for tuning in today. Remember, you can subscribe to this podcast on your favorite podcasting platform. And be sure to take a few minutes and fill out our survey to let us know how we're doing. That can be found at HTTP, colon slash slash bi, T dot L y slash me, dash y o u dash us. And remember to tune in every Wednesday when we talk about the things that impact your personal volume.