Episode 2: What in the Real Estate? #848

We're back in another episode of What in the Real Estate?
This week Joey is joined again with Bruce and Craig.
They talked about:
-Housing market trends and mortgage options
-The increase on the Social Security Benefits
-The new California law on selling ADUs: AB 1033; and
-The impact of inflation on homeownership

Hope you enjoy!

The Norris Group originates and services loans in California and Florida under California DRE License 01219911, Florida Mortgage Lender License 1577, and NMLS License 1623669.  For more information on hard money lending, go www.thenorrisgroup.com and click the Hard Money tab.


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Narrator: 0:00

This is The Norris Group's real estate investor radio show the award-winning show dedicated to thought leaders shaping the real estate industry and local experts revealing their insider tips to succeed in an ever -changing real estate market hosted by author, investor, and hard money lender, Bruce Norris.The Norris Group proudly presents our 16th annual award winning event I Survived Real Estate. Industry experts join Bruce Norris to discuss the evolving industry trends, real estate bubbles, inflation and opportunities are merging for real estate professionals. All proceeds from the event benefit Make-a-Wish and St. Jude Children's Research Hospital. We want to thank our Platinum Partners. Inland Empire Real Estate Investment Club, San Diego Creative Investors Association, White Feather Investments, Wilson Investment Properties, uDirect Ira Services, MVT Productions, and Realty411 Magazine.

Joey Romero: 1:12

All right, welcome, everybody to The Norris Group, real estate radio show and podcast. Bruce, can we still call it a radio show if it's not actually on the radio anymore? Or should we just go to podcasts from now on?

Bruce Norris: 1:22

Yeah, yeah, I just say podcast because that was on the radio for a long time. And then it's obviously a lot less expensive to do podcast. That's what everybody does. So yeah, this is the podcast.

Joey Romero: 1:37

So here again, we are with our bi weekly, you know, What In The Real Estate you know, we're we're just gonna talk about what's in the news in real estate in the economy. We're joined by Craig Evans, CEO of Douglas Brooke homes, Trinity Building in Zion and DBL Capital. And also with us today is, as you've just heard, is Bruce Norris, President of the Norris group. So let's jump right in. So, the first story I want to talk about is from Fox Business and the headline was'Homebuyers are looking to adjustable loans, as mortgage rates continue to rise.' You know, the rates went to I think I saw 792 this week. You know, there's different ones but you know, mortgage applications increased for the first time in three weeks pushed higher by a 15% jump in ARM applications. That's according to the MBA the Mortgage Bankers Association, President Bob Brooks Smith, he went on to say that with rates well above 7%, some prospective homebuyers are turning to ARMs to lower their payment. In the short term amidst these high mortgage rates, the average contract interest rate for five one ARM right now fell to 6.33% this week, down from 6.49 from last week. So here's my question to the both of you, do you think this trend is going to gain momentum? And then the second part of that question is, would this likely lead to some bad news in the future?

Craig Evans: 3:05

Oh, that's an interesting question. So gaining momentum, I do believe that it is gaining momentum in what's going on, in the economy is seeing a pinch in a lot of points. Even though inflation is ticked down a little bit, the interest rates are still pinching the purchasing power of the buyer, you know, when you're saying a house that sub 400 you know, when you get a one point move on that that's a that's a three $350 move on a payment. That's a significant change in affordability for the housing market. So you know, people are definitely, what we're seeing is people are definitely looking towards ARMs. From a new construction perspective, you know, we're starting to do right by downs for permanent rate by downs. So, yeah, I think that the gaining traction, I think we're going to start seeing a lot of that, you know, the I'm glad to see there's some longer term products that are coming out of it and for the last six months or so a lot of it has been like a two one bite and things like that. I think there was a lot of hesitancy out of that because just of some of the uncertainty and now with the five ones becoming a little more prevalent, people can breathe a little out of that. If we go back into the 06, 07s where everybody was doing an ARM but they were doing it because they were just trying to buy 17 houses at once. We get back into some longer ARM for people have a little breathing room, I think people are going to go to a lot more of that just because it puts them back in play of being in the market period.

Bruce Norris: 4:46

What also can happen is an ARM can do the other thing can go down. So that's we kind of forget that because we always think okay, when you get an ARM it goes up after the, you know, like after the five years. Well, I've had ARMs that went down So I got I had an ARM in 1982. And I was delighted because that thing kept on going down like a percent a year for quite a long time. So the question about being in trouble later, so let's go out five years, my bet would be that they will have a chance to refi at a lower fixed rate than the adjustable rate. And I think that's probably what's going to occur that on their own, they'll take out that five, one ARM a fixed rate, because that's kind of where they want. But they probably will do that once it gets into something that starts with a five. Another thing that's really interesting is the spread right now, between the mortgage rate and a 10 year T-bill. So the 10 year T-bill spread usually is 1.5. It's right now three. So and it's because the fear is the interest rates are still not headed down when that sentiment changes. And you think, Okay, now we're going to go down, and we're going to have a recession, that margin can go back to normal, and your fixed rate will go from eight to six and a half, without the tenure doing anything other than just normalizing the spread. So that's a big thing. So if if the 10 year T-bill went down, up by a percent, and the spread came back to normal, you'd be at five and a half. What's really a good question is okay, all these people that have fixed rate mortgages between two and four, would they come off the sidelines in masse with product? Or would the buyer come off the sidelines to buy? And my guess would be the second part would be true. I don't know how many people will be motivated to change a three into a five. But I can see the buyer that's been dragging his feet getting off the sidelines and getting a fixed rate. So interesting times, definitely.

Joey Romero: 6:54

And, it wouldn't necessarily have to be the five years, right, if, let's say, two years down the road, it's, it's at the same, like, you know, I go in right now at six and a half, or let's say, 6.33. And then two years from now 30 year fixed are at six. I mean, I could always just pay the prepayment and get out and get into my six right there at that point, right.

Bruce Norris: 7:16

Yeah, that's right. I think that would be the the mentality, and you'd then you'd have a fixed payment, you know, what it is forever. I think that's where most people would land. But right now, they want to own a home, and they can own it at a fixed rate, so.

Craig Evans: 7:32

I was talking to a homeowner the other day that just happened to be in our cell center. And they were in and we were talking and they were specifically looking at the newer five, one product. And it was interesting, because the gentleman said, you know, and this is the first consumer that I've kind of heard through this, that said, 'Listen, I'm betting on that, I'll take the five one, and I'm betting on that within the next six, eight months, the rates gonna go down', he said, and then for me, it will be the play of the unit, because I've got a one time adjustment, or I would have a one time adjustment, do I let that play out and go down more before I lock it again? And then wait to see what happens to go to a fixed. So I think it's interesting that even you know that person was playing that kind of working through that process, I think a lot of it comes down to trying to, especially in the affordability side, trying to educate the buyer on understanding what this market means for him. Because we've built, our community has become so accustomed to a two or three, I think a lot of people have forgotten this time. We got to work this.

Bruce Norris: 8:38

That's right. I was just gonna mention that, you know, I was watching a YouTube presentation last night, by guy this has quite a following. He was talking about foreclosures are going up and all that. And so I looked at the numbers. So historically, I'm pretty familiar with the percentage of the market that has to have foreclosures, you know, actively participating. And so last month in Florida, the total number of foreclosures represented one half of a percent. One half.

Joey Romero: 9:10

Bruce, but that's up 300% from last year.

Bruce Norris: 9:14

That's right. So, but you know, people are so susceptible to that stuff, because they don't know the history of it, you know, that's just and short sales were like way less than that. So the motivated seller in mass is not, does not exist right now. Probably won't be existing for quite some time because they have a tremendous loan in place, and it's probably the payments less than rent. And that's what causes price damage. inventory that has to sell and controls all the comps of everything. We do not have that this time.

Joey Romero: 9:56

All right, let's move on to our next story. Yahoo Finance had a, story on the Social Security benefits will increase 3.2 Next year, the Social Security Administration announced that 3.2 cost of living adjustment for 2024. That's a little bit above the average for the last 20 years is been 2.6. But what's crazy is that last year, it was 8.7. So it's a lot less. Now, if you look at, you know, we're we look at long charts. What was interesting, I did see that, in the 80s, coming out of, you know, the 70s inflation, the cost of living adjustment for the Social Security Administration in 79, was 9.9, 1980 was 14.3. And in 1981, was 11.2. So what can you do at, here's my question, what can you do as a senior if you're already stuck relying on Social Security? And do you think social security will be there forever? Is that a promise that will be upheld through future generations?

Bruce Norris: 11:00

I'll go first. Yeah, I think it will. But what's interesting about when you get raises during inflation, you don't have net gains. So, when you take a wage earner, we paid attention to people that work in construction, their wages doubled during the 80s. Well, it's actually a seven here. So while the homebuilding boom was going on, say, from 70, to 1980, their wages doubled. So if you're a plumber, making six bucks, you made 12, their buying power went down 28%. So it's sort of a senior got a raise this year at 3% or more. He hasn't had a net gain. He's buying less than he was before. But to your bigger question, yeah, that's a promise that's going to, that's probably going to stay but doesn't mean you can't adjust for the future. So Social Security did that and I think when Ronald Reagan was president, trying to make it more solvent, so you know, they didn't expect people to live to 90 when they created social security. You know, the the age at the time was 65. And that was about the living age that you thought you probably pass away. So that was, it was interesting, now that we've expanded our life by a couple of decades, we haven't expanded the date you start Social Security, but by a year or two.

Craig Evans: 12:22

That whole process, you know, I mean, the, my parents are in that age of where, you know, they were available for, you know, I praise God, that they're not on a fixed income, and that's not the position that they're in. But my father and I were talking about that about three weeks ago, that exact aspect of just seeing that listen, okay, yeah, it's showing that there is a, an increase coming in. But when you you take into account what the what the economy is doing, and where we're at as a whole, it's their buying power, for someone on a fixed income is actually decreased. So it's a tough process for someone on a fixed income, you know, that's, you know, from that, you know, I would say you got to look at, while there are some that are still in investment modules, things like that, even though they may be small, you know, they want to look at things that are conservative, they want to look at things that are safe, you know, some CDs, things like that, that may not be generating much return, but know that, hey, if they've got that little bit of like and put it in a CD, it may not return them much. But it's something that's going to be safe, I think, from a process of how does a senior start to protect themselves, I think they've got to look at safety. And it surprised me, I've talked with some friends of my parents. And they're 78 and 80, respectively, from the wife and the husband. And they don't have a budget. And it kind of astounded me that, you know, they grew up through that age of, of coming through, and budgets are tight, and you got to work through your money. And, and here, it was this family that did not have a budget and did not want their spending. And I think that's one of the things that would encourage, you know, seniors that are coming through this, it's just know how to plan and getting with friends, family, people that can guide them through that, I think, to your question of, you know, what do they do? It's, it's a different thing for them.

Joey Romero: 14:12

Although the average monthly benefit is$1,848. And so this cost of living adjustment adds $50 to that. So it's not huge. Bruce, I've heard you talk about like retiring as a homeowner makes a world of difference. Can you talk about even just owning a home how that can be a huge difference for retirees?

Bruce Norris: 14:34

Well, you know, depending on the state you live in your your property taxes in California are actually pretty well fixed to the what you paid for it in Florida can float more but you know, not having a payment is equal to not having a rent. And also there's no escalation. So can you imagine being a senior renting? In the last two years your rent could have gone up what? 40 plus percent while there's no security additional He's gonna go to pay for that. So, you know, ending up being senior that owns something free and clear allows for life, you know, to be honest with you.

Joey Romero: 15:10

All right, this next story I thought was kind of interesting. Bruce, did you did you know that the California is gonna allow to sell ADUs like condos. So you can, you know under law AB 1033, which was signed into law last week, property owners and participating cities will be able to construct an ADU on their land and sell it separately following the same rules that apply to condos. You know, as with new condos, homeowners, building ADUs must notify their utilities including water, sewer gas electric, creating the separate, separate convenience of the unit. Now, question, how do you feel this is creating opportunities for homeowners from lending from selling, flipping, you know, in your own backyard, and for seniors staying in the ADU?

Bruce Norris: 16:00

I think it's a nightmare waiting to happen. I really do. Okay, so it's one thing to have a tenant that you've chosen, gone through a process, okay, you're selling a property and something could change within a year they have, oh, we got married, they got four kids living in a one bedroom, whatever. They need laws against that. Now they have three cards instead of one and he logins that, no, but you're stuck with them. They don't have to ask you for anything. They own something they own your garage is now a house behind their house.

Joey Romero: 16:37

You can't evict your neighbor.

Bruce Norris: 16:40

It can be above the garage, right?

Joey Romero: 16:44

Yes.

Bruce Norris: 16:45

I just I think it's I think it's a density nightmare. And okay, so now your, the ADU that you sold is now in foreclosure. And I just think at that process, you know, I mean, you know what, why, it's funny, Craig about this. This is why we're going to this in California because you can't get a permit to do a track of homes. But the ADU law, they will have you can have an ADU without the approval of the local government, that's approved by the state. And if it's not approved, within a certain timeframe, it's approved anyway.

Craig Evans: 17:26

Wow.

Bruce Norris: 17:27

It's just, it's a wild... waiting to happen, man.

Craig Evans: 17:30

And if I remember correctly from reading on this law as it was coming out, the each individual property has to have its own HOA.

Joey Romero: 17:43

That that was a little weird to me to, you know, like, you have to create an HOA.

Craig Evans: 17:49

So does the...

Bruce Norris: 17:50

Who do you pay?

Craig Evans: 17:52

Well, so I guess the original owner is who's the HOA manager. And I just...

Joey Romero: 18:01

I mean, Craig, some of these places that are big enough, you can put three and four units back there. So imagine like you got, four. I mean, Bruce was just talking about just one imagine multiplying that by three or four?

Craig Evans: 18:16

Well, so you know, here's the interesting play. Does this mean that you've got the grandmother and grandfather that are on fixed income and have owned their house since the 1960s? And don't own anything on it? Can they now create a an ADU and sell that to their and recreate their HOA that it has to be owned by someone in their family? And does that start to help them on a fixed income? I still think it's a disaster waiting to happen. But they I guess in the short term, maybe a senior could take advantage of it and help them through a fixed income status. But I agree, I think it's just a disaster.

Joey Romero: 18:55

Bruce, do you do you let me ask you this because you were here longer in California, you've been in California. Is this another one of these things that are just created by you know, lawmakers that truly don't understand the housing market and how you know, it would affect everything else? And they're just seeing Oh, we're just kind of fix it?

Bruce Norris: 19:16

Yeah, I think so. San Bernardino had a fourplex area. That's quite interesting, Craig, they had, you know, need for affordable housing. And so they built I wouldn't know. Like, I'll just guess 204 plexes in a tight area. Yeah, within 15 years, they tore them all down, one at a time. So the best listing statement I ever heard. So we were buying these things at 40 grand fourplexes in California fixing them and selling them for profit. But if you didn't do everything correct, they bulldoze your fourplex while you were under construction of fixing it. No joke. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, it was, it was the craziest thing. So eventually they tore them all down. But during that process, there was plenty of scattered inventory. The best listing comment ever was a lady that I knew listed this fourplex. And her comment was not many on the block like this one, which mean that was the only fourplex left on the block. I just, I bought that fourplex. But I had the laugh. I said, Oh, that was that was perfect.

Craig Evans: 20:35

Oh, that's good.

Joey Romero: 20:37

So...

Bruce Norris: 20:38

That's a, that's a well intended plan. That went totally disastrous. And they had to tear down all those fourplexes. And I'm sure they had, how many millions of dollars involved in the construction of that. But there's too much density. And so that's what these ad user doing. is creating density, actually inside the same yard? I mean, wow.

Craig Evans: 21:03

Well, from a infrastructure perspective, if you if you look at, you know, as I'm sitting here thinking about, are they even taking into consideration that, okay, you're going to have to increase water size, you're gonna have to increase sewer size to that lot. So now let's, if you put three more units on the property, you've got to quadruple your your service for water and sewer. And so now, you know, if you do that on the entire street, you're increasing, and there's 10 houses on the street, you've increased your sewage by 40%. The infrastructure is not, was not designed to handle those types of things. And that's a lot of times that's government people just saying, hey, this sounds good to fix a problem, but don't understand what the the density can do to an infrastructure.

Joey Romero: 21:56

Now, to be fair, there are people doing it right, you know, that, you know, are thoughtful and mindful that they're not just becoming cram lords. And, you know, just creating, you know, bad situations for the neighborhoods, there is places that if done, right, can be profitable for the investor and can serve a purpose. So don't want to just skew too much on one way or the other. All right. And the last, the last story I want to talk about is just there's been tons of this in everything we've talked about that story, unfortunately, had the the CEO of Bank of America warned in March that consumers were going to get pushed to the point of pain. And it looks like, according to him that they're there, you know, so I won't get too much into the story. But basically saying that, you know, household savings are being depleted, because everything costs more. So everybody stacked up this war chest and in 20, and 21. But now they're having to spend it because inflation is catching up. So Bruce, and Craig, I don't you know, you and I are sort of the same age. So we didn't really have too much familiarity with the, you know, the recession, the 70s. But, Bruce, do you see any similarities on how inflation in the 70s recovered how things are going now? And what is the light at the end of our tunnel, you know, coming out of this one?

Bruce Norris: 23:22

Oh, from my perspective, and I became a homeowner in 1972, and took that journey upwards of price. That made all the difference, because I had a fixed payment, my equity grew, when I sold it, I had another fixed payment, my equity grew, at the end of that little stretch, I owned a home free and clear, had I rented that same property, my rent probably would have tripled during that time. So that's what you know, we're talking about the wages going up. But everything else went up. So there was really a big, it was a big deal owning a property. So when you had a chance, in the last few years to get a mortgage rate, or two or three, that story for those people is very different than the people that didn't get into own ownership and now have all the inflation on the side and the rent, that is definitely going to be a burden for them. That's hard to overcome. I mean, that's why owning a home and getting a fixed rate loan is important. If you're not in a market, you can get a fixed rate loan, then get an adjustable one and maybe get to a fixed one as soon as you can. I'm a big fan of free and clear and stuff to you know, because life throws curves so there'll be a there'll be a day that you'll make your last payment or a lot of people want to refi it and I just think owning something free and clear is something about something that gives me peace.

Joey Romero: 24:47

Thank you employ, you know, quite a few folks in Florida. Can you talk to this specific topic from their perspective? You know, are you are your employees feeling the pinch, you know, people asking for more weight, you know, raises the normal, you know, like, how does that land for you?

Craig Evans: 25:07

Yeah, it's our cost of wages has definitely increased that's been a major driver. And actually one of the sustainers of price holding right now from the cost of construction is wage because we've got to pay people to where they can at least live, but the reality is, their buying power has greatly decreased right now. So it's a, big thing. I've got people that, you know, a year ago, we're at $15 an hour, and now they're at $23 an hour, and they're worse off now than they were two years ago. You know, it's definitely a struggle out there for him right now. You know, and when they didn't own something free and clear, and just like Bruce, it's all about when they're, they're seeing the pinch of rent, they're seeing the pinch of, of trying to get into homeownership. It's a tough battle for them. But that's, unfortunately, that's the economy we're in.

Bruce Norris: 26:14

I should mention that during that journey, after I owned a house free and clear, I got in this buying business. And just so happened and financing at the time was 17 and a half percent fixed. So I refinance my house at 17 and a half. And with my wife crying, and she signed the loan docs, so

Joey Romero: 26:32

I just want to know, Bruce, did you siphon gas that's a bummer. Oh. in the 70s? Did you siphon gas?

Bruce Norris: 26:42

No. I work for a gas station. I didn't get a discount, as I recall.

Joey Romero: 26:49

We're getting close to I Survived Real Estate. We're just a little over seven days out. And one of the things that I created for for the program was the history of the Rohny Award. You know, we put a little, it's almost like a little year but Jack Fullerton in 2014, Ward Hannigan in 2015, 2016 was Mic Blackwell. Fixer Jay Decima in 2018. Dyches Bodiford, I believe a fellow Georgian there, Craig 2019, Peter Fortunato and John Schaub were given the award together in 2017. And last year was Jack Miller. Bruce, I mean it you can't really say, hey, which one these guys stand out, you know, but, you know, is there something you want to say about the group overall? Or, you know, maybe somebody that had a little, you know, someone who taught you a little bit different or something special? Did you want to mention something about them?

Bruce Norris: 27:49

I think what's great about the idea of the award is it was based on what Jim Rohn did for my life. Jim Rohn, changed my life in three hours. And that was awesome. He still is typical to me. If I want to motivate myself, I find a Jim Rohn talk on YouTube. And it's just like, what happened to me 40 years ago, all of those people affected people that way, what was the key to their approach, it was unselfish. They didn't need anything to happen money wise, because they taught, they taught for exactly the right reason, their reputation was spotless. And that's what that reward award stands for, you know, and that's why Aaron will be the last recipient of that reward, because, award is because that's who he was, as you know, that's Aaron's reputation is that he was as unselfish as they get and as giving as they get.

Joey Romero: 28:50

I'm getting the videos in now. And you couldn't be more spot on that is the resonating thought, from everybody who sent me a video so far is how selfless he was and wanted you to succeed more than him.

Bruce Norris: 29:04

Yeah, yeah, that was. And he's consistent with who this group is. So when you're a teacher, and you get a call from your student who's found a great deal, it's better than buying a house yourself. It really is. You realize, wow, okay, because you just you just know, you help change somebody's life and future. They become an entrepreneur. And, you know, for whatever reason that night, Jim Rohn dug that out of me and 40 some years later, it hasn't gone away.

Joey Romero: 29:38

Craig, have you had, you know, if you've been to seminars like who's your favorite, you know, speaker, teacher in the real estate world?

Craig Evans: 29:47

This will sound probably a strange comment, but honestly, Bruce Norris.

Bruce Norris: 29:56

Really. Didn't expect that one.

Craig Evans: 29:59

Uh, I, you know, I've been I've been in several different industries and you know, so you didn't know my background know that I've been on stage and, and the whole hype thing that I've been through that right so a lot of the guys that I've sat under and been through and stuff I see a lot of it is what the hype is when I met Bruce for me that was a changing process to see that there are people in this industry that are just there just as you were talking about Aaron the same thing that we've embodied, that Aaron and body in that process you know, a lot of that came from the the man on speaker with us here, Bruce from living that out day in and day out. And so with, without question, Bruce Norris is the one that I love to hear, speak and to talk because his understanding of the markets and what's going to happen. But yet on top, forget about any of the money, his care of people and seeing people succeed to me is very, very inspiring to be continue, that I got a business to grow, right, I have a business to run, I got a, Joey, as you said, I've got, you know, over 100 employees that we've got to take care of, and that we're working is still fairly a small business that I consider to, to keep growing. But it's a constant reminder, every time I talk to Bruce, or Bruce sends me a text message it at 930 at night or five o'clock in the morning about something he's seen. It's not that he's trying to brag, it's not that Bruce is trying to, he just wants to share information with me and make me better. Those are the things that inspire me. That's why I love the man on the screen.

Joey Romero: 31:45

I think the takeaway that you know, I've always had from Bruce also, is he tells people like, Hey, if you don't agree with me, that's okay. You know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna present the information based on charts. And then if you want to interpret them a different way, please feel free and challenge me because I've been at plenty of meetings, you know, we're, you know, somebody, you know, thinks they have a little different take, and he loves to, you know, banter back and forth. Not that he gets mad at anybody. But it's really cool, just to, you know, hear a different perspective. And you know, and when when Bruce, you know, I've heard Bruce say, You know what, yeah, no, you could be right, that could be the way that you interpret, it might be the right way to do it, you know. So there's, there's no ego involved. And that's what I do love about Bruce, too.

Bruce Norris: 32:38

What I love when those discussions happen is on the other side of the coin, is the same intent on getting to the bottom of what is accurate, and what is true. So they don't have a theme for their life. And they're selling constantly or something like that. They've looked at the same data. And I, I had, I started doing this with Sean O'Toole who's on the panel, by the way, Sean O'Toole and I disagree with some on some pretty major things. But because I honor his process, I'm able to set aside you know, like when you listen to somebody you disagree with, all you're thinking about is how am I going to reply? I have learned by dealing with him that I don't do that. I go on the journey with him. Let's see how you looked at these charts and how you landed on this page. Okay, now, I may at the end of the day still disagree, but that's a better process for me to go through. Okay, because, hey, that could be a better solution. You know, and I'm open to looking at that going. Okay, I haven't taken it from that angle. Now, fortunately, he's done the same with me. So then I'll do my thing. Okay. This is the journey that I took. This is why I landed on this square, we still disagree on a couple of major topics, two of them that are really major affordability and number of trustee sales, how that affects the market. Thinks he's absolutely right. And so do I. Yes. And on that.

Joey Romero: 34:11

All right, I'll close the show with this one thought, you know, the Rohny Awards, there's going to be nine of them after this year. And just put this in perspective of how many people and how many families were made better, because they knew our Rohny Award winners, like just think about the impact on real estate that these folks had. With that.

Bruce Norris: 34:35

What's so, cool about it, too. They knew each other. They knew that to each other was. Yeah. And so that's why you had three guys fly from Florida to watch Jack Miller after he passed get that award. Because it was like yeah, he's one of us, you know.

Joey Romero: 34:52

Yeah, the mentors mentor, right. That was him. Yep. Yep. With that, we'll close the show and we'll see you again in a couple weeks. Thanks, everybody.

Craig Evans: 35:01

Thanks, guys.

Bruce Norris: 35:02

Okay. All right. Let's see all later.

Narrator: 35:04

See ISurvivedRealEstate.com for event details, information on all our generous sponsors and to connect with our speakers. We'd also like to thank our Gold Sponsors, Chase Leland Photography, Fair Trade Real Estate, Inland Valley Association of Realtors, Keystone CPA, Leivas Tax Wealth Management, NorCal REIA, NSDREI, Pasadena FIBI, PropertyRadar, The Outspoken Investor Tony Alvarez, White House Catering, Windermere Tower Realty, Rick and Leanne Rossiter. ISurvivedRealEstate.com for event details, in For more information on hard money, loans and upcoming events with the Norris group, check out the Norris group.com. For more information on hard money, loans and upcoming events with The Norris Group, check out thenorrisgroup.com. For information on passive investing with trust deeds, visit tngtrustdeeds.com.

Aaron Norris: 36:14

The Norris Group originates and services loans in California and Florida under California DRE License 01219911, Florida Mortgage Lender License 1577, and NMLS License 1623669. For more information on hard money lending, go www.thenorrisgroup.com and click the Hard Money tab.