Episode 3: What in the Real Estate? #849

Episode 3 of What in the Real Estate?

This week Joey is joined again with Bruce Norris and Craig Evans.
They talked about:
-Real estate market trends and predictions.
-Interest rates and the economy.
-I Survived Real Estate 2023

Hope you enjoy!

The Norris Group originates and services loans in California and Florida under California DRE License 01219911, Florida Mortgage Lender License 1577, and NMLS License 1623669.  For more information on hard money lending, go www.thenorrisgroup.com and click the Hard Money tab.


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Narrator: 0:00

This is The Norris Group's real estate investor radio show the award-winning show dedicated to thought leaders shaping the real estate industry and local experts revealing their insider tips to succeed in an ever -changing real estate market hosted by author, investor, and hard money lender, Bruce Norris.

Joey Romero: 0:21

Alright, welcome everybody back for another round of What in the Real Estate? So, we're going to briefly touch on a couple stories that have been going around. The one that we're not even gonna touch with a 10 foot pole is going to be this major, major lawsuit that NAR just lost $1.78 billion on the class action suit in Missouri. So maybe, we'll see how that shakes out or after the two years of appeals, where it ends up. But that's what's been dominating the stories here yesterday, for sure. There was a couple of things that one that came up and I Survived Real Estate was when we talked about Commercial to Residential conversions. The panel briefly touched on it, I think Doug was the one who talked about a little bit but there was a story this week that CDGB the, there's going to be government grants that are going to be given now. So the government is going to be involved in they're going to issue about $10 billion for the acquisition for the rehab, and land to convert some of these, we'll see how that shakes out down the road a little bit more. But the other, the other story I was going to tell you guys about was the story about moving back home to save money to buy a house, but it's a different spin, this story actually talked about actually purchasing the homes with family members. So maybe I'll touch on this a little bit quick. So it said 37% of respondents consider purchasing a home to live with a child or a sibling or a cousin? Is that a trend that you're beginning to see people actually getting together with family members to actually buy the house?

Craig Evans: 2:04

That's a good question, matter of fact, we are doing a build right now for a couple out of California, they are building a house for their mother is going to be moving in with them. And so we're starting to see a lot of that, especially with different races, different nationalities are, they're big in family. And so, you know, we've got a lot of houses, some of our larger houses with more bedrooms, we are seeing to where they are, they're bringing families with them. And you know, moms, dads, things like that. They're moving in with him. So we are starting to see more of that, is it a prevailing process and what we do especially from retail, no, but but we are starting to see it.

Bruce Norris: 2:50

Florida too you have you the biggest number of seniors getting older. So that could definitely be in be in the future your your senior grandpa moves in, he's got dough, you don't own a house, you know, let's put us both together. So, you know, he's safer, and they have a home. Makes sense.

Craig Evans: 3:12

You know, in that I mean, you know, with some of the stuff that's going on with my parents and their health, you know, we're prepping for them to potentially move into with us. So we, you know, we built a suite for them that they will have a suite and, you know, I praise God, we're able to do that. But yeah, I mean, it's, I would rather have my parents close to where I could help in their, you know, the last years of their life versus trying to do something else. So it's definitely a process. And I think what Bruce was saying, you know, with the age of what a lot of our seniors are in the Florida market, there are a lot of families that are starting to move together.

Joey Romero: 3:55

Well, that was, there was a story about a year and a half, two years ago that this was something that people were suggesting to put around schools, like have have a senior coupled with students and instead of paying rent, they would actually just do chores, you know, do the shopping, you know, clean the house, things like that. So it's a changing dynamic the other day that today is today's fed day. Today, the big announcement, are they going to, the rates gonna go up? So let's let's get into that story because I think it's going to it's certainly something that we talked about a lot at I Survived Real Estate, but so unchanged for the second straight time. They're gonna assess again in December, the additional tightening tighter credit conditions were something that was weighing on the economy and and that's what they took into consideration. And then they will continue to assess, you know, the information and what they're talking about is labor, right? It's There's still too many jobs available. The labor still was, you know, strong, GDP strong and then the financial credit, tightening, or it's tight. So that's why they they didn't feel that a rate hike should be in the works for this meeting. But one of the things that they're not calm, they're still not confident that they've raised rates enough that they're going to get back to their target of 2% inflation. So that's it's still their target, even as as I listened to Jay Powell, do his press conference. Now, Bruce, or Craig or whoever can, you know, we have some new listeners that maybe don't truly understand that, you know, what the Fed funds rate is, and how it affects so many sectors? So can you explain that for a little bit?

Bruce Norris: 5:40

Joey I'll deal with kind of interest rates in general, first, go back aways.

Joey Romero: 5:44

Okay.

Bruce Norris: 5:45

And the accuracy of the Fed statement. So let's put it that way. So from 1975 to 1980, interest rates basically doubled. So you had, you know, mortgage rates go from seven and a half to 15, in that time period, what was interesting is affordability at the starting point, was 55%, in California. And that was the reason you didn't have price decline, because you raised it for five years and got the 17% after five year journey of raising rates. Okay, so we were never in 17% before. And so this isn't the Fed funds rate, necessarily, this is the mortgage rate doubling, but the Fed funds rate went crazy during that time. Okay, what was really interesting and 2022 and 2023, when we started raising rates, we went from where we were 22% to 17%, in four months. So you reach that breaking point for real estate payment, in four months of you're raising interest rates. And that's why you're kind of buried at those numbers. So when we do that moodometer. You know, every time you do that chart where it's 70%, right? Well, that's completely a ridiculous payment that usually is accompanied by a euphoric buyer. And this time, it's really a math quotient. In other words, that's just where we are. And the only reason we're able to maintain that price is there still more buyers than people willing to sell. So you don't have to be a foreign buyer, you're just want to be a buyer and you're butting your head up against, there's really no available inventory from the guy that's got a two or 3% mortgage. They just want to sit there and who can blame them. So that's an interesting thing. But let's talk about the accuracy of the Fed for a second. So I mean, these guys all have PhDs in economics, their ability to see forward isn't so hot. So just to give you an example, in 2007, the fourth quarter prediction for GDP growth, for 2008 was 1% positive, and it was minus four. So that's a big spread to get wrong. And the federal funds rate went from wherever it was to zero, basically, because they completely misjudged the catastrophe that was about to occur in the current situation, we heard the word transitory constantly, until we didn't, and then they raise rates faster than any other time in history in a very short period of time, we went up about five percentage points, and got to the point where we're at now. So it's hard to look at people with PhDs and think, Okay, why are two as as accurate as, like a common? I think, like Craig, Craig is out his he's got his boots on the ground watching the events, you know, sometimes that's a better teacher than a PhD, apparently, because you have a sense of the market. So, I can tell you the other thing, though, when they do a policy shift, so okay, well, we've we've overdone it, let's say and now you have unemployment, and you have negative GDP growth, the decline of interest rates is not, it's not small, and it's not slow, historically. So that'll be a really interesting play on this real estate market when, whenever that day occurs, where it occurs to them, okay, we've misjudged the downside now. It'll be very interesting to see the reaction of the buyer and seller in real estate. So Craig and I had talked about this, you give this market a five and a half percent mortgage rate, who comes off the sidelines the most the seller with the three or the buyer that's been looking at eight? And I think it's the buyer looking at eight. This is maybe their last chance at five and a half and the seller still going. And that's almost twice as high as what I've got. And so maybe they just stay. So you still have that really odd thing going on. You've got more buyers than sellers and the benefit, who benefits this is the new homebuilding because it can land on the he's the only plane it can land on.

Craig Evans: 10:23

So the interesting thing, or one of the things that I thought was very interesting that Powell said right before I jumped on, he had not, and their committee had not taken into account any recessionary issues. There was a question that came from her own reporter believer that CNBC was asking they could be wrong with who asked the question, but they were questioning about what all had taken into account, you know, in this determination for that? And did they take into anything into account in relation to any recessionary issues in the current economy or in the future economy? And he stated that they had not. He said, You know, I know...

Joey Romero: 11:07

The word recession wasn't even in their decision.

Craig Evans: 11:11

Exactly. And that's what he said, I hate to say, these, everybody's gonna see it as soon as they read it, because it's in our it's in our wording. So he was dancing all around that.

Joey Romero: 11:20

Well, he opened up that answering that question by saying, I don't want to answer your question, but I'm gonna have to.

Craig Evans: 11:27

Exactly. So the interesting thing going, if I'm looking out today, Bruce, and I've been talking about a few strategies on some stuff of properties, that he's got some of the stuff that we're moving things like that. Interestingly, you know, and Bruce, I believe you had talked about this quite a bit, we touched on on the panel, but you were talking about this last Friday, in the aspect of ARMs, and, you know, back in, 05,06,07 ARMs were being used and kind of thrown out as, as candy for anybody that just wanted to buy 10 properties, but the tightness of which people are writing mortgages now is very tight. But the you know, while the 30 year fixed money right now is about, eight and eight, eight and a quarter. Right now, let's see 5/1 ARM right now is 6.04. And 10 is right at about 6.4 or 10.1.

Bruce Norris: 12:28

The cost to the seller is what?

Craig Evans: 12:30

So on a 10/1 ARM they're gonna pay an annual they're gonna pay an APR on that of 6.4 with 10 points, origination.

Bruce Norris: 12:40

Okay, but what are you what are the seller paying in points?

Craig Evans: 12:45

So if, no that's, that's the cost of two points, origination and 6.4 on an ARM.

Bruce Norris: 12:53

And for 5/1 ARM, it's no point other than two points rather, there's no...?

Craig Evans: 12:59

No, there's no, this is not a buy down, right? This is just an ARM.

Bruce Norris: 13:03

I need your lender.

Craig Evans: 13:07

Well, that's exactly what we're looking at you and I were talking less last Friday at lunch about looking at some of the rate buy downs, why would I buy the rate down and when they can go and get two and a quarter point discount from this and they're going to save 650 to 675 on their payment on a 10.1, they're going to be locked for the next 10 years. And they can get the rate drop if it drops over the next two years without having to refi?

Bruce Norris: 13:30

Yeah, you know, I forgot about that. That actually happened to me after I I refinance my house at 17 and a half. It went down to 12. And I kept on getting reduced payment. I was like, yeah. That's hilarious. Well, that is interesting, because we were quoted some stuff today. And it was much more aggressive in points. If the numbers are right, 5/1 ARM . Now, you know, this is interesting about the mentality of a 5/1 ARM to me as a long time, in the sense of, you know, especially in recent history, and even myself, do I think we're gonna have a chance in the next five years to have that be a lower rate? And I'd have to say, Yeah, I think there's no doubt about that in my mind. So I think the buyer who can get an a 5.99 instead of an 8, and has five years to improve their position is probably going to think that's maybe a no brainer. If they really want in, and that's like you say that's a big difference in a you know, the price point that we're talking about, say 700 grand that's a lot of money a month, not have to pay.

Joey Romero: 14:52

Well, recent histories has told you that these the velocity of both the rise and the fall has been not something that takes a long time. It's well within. I mean, you just see rises and falls within that five years.

Bruce Norris: 15:07

Oh, absolutely. No, there's, you know, I think, I don't think there's an appetite to go back to, like the 0% fed fund rate, but the world doesn't look very stable to me. You know, so you can look at other things that cause decisions, right? Or cause recessions, caused concerns, so.

Craig Evans: 15:33

Yeah, I was speaking to a group this morning. And Bruce in that aspect of zero money, you know, they were they were talking about do I think that we're going to start seeing 3% money in two in 2024, 2025 again, you know, I don't know that we see 3% money again, in my lifetime. I mean, you know, maybe, but that was a, there was a lot of extenuating circumstances that get us to 3% money and 2% money. Do I think we're gonna see that five and six, you know, six, pretty good, do, I think we're gonna see low fives over the next year, I think we could, I think that's a good potential that we see low fives and 24, maybe first quarter 25, to get down to low fives. But as you were talking earlier, once they start to fall, they typically start to fall a lot faster. And I love the charts that you brought out Friday night showing the cyclical value of how fast things drop, which, you know, within that market, and then you know, where what was happening within the right side of that. But then once the rates started turning, again, you know, that was one of the things I was asked this morning, what I think is going to happen from a price damage. And, you know, basically, it was laying straight out just what we talked about Friday night that, that rate issue doesn't necessarily mean price damage. And quite frankly, if we start to see a rate drop quite pretty frequently, we've been very fortunate, our the price of everything is pretty much flatlining right now, we're not seeing massive drops in pricing at all, we see just a little bit of movement down. And in this situation, you start getting some products like ARMs that start to make things affordable, again, that we can we can put Mr. And Mrs. Smith in there that are you know, like we showed a house this morning, our sales team told us that we had a house showing this morning to a young couple that was pregnant, baby in the belly. And so that's encouraging to see that. And they were specifically looking, they've been reading and they're looking at an ARM product. So here's a young couple, pregnant baby in the belly ready to start their family. And they're looking at, you know, this, this looks like a good time for them to buy. Because of what could happen with rates and especially with an ARM product now that that is affordable to them. They could get into that product, and knows that they can at least be solidified for five or 10 year period, whichever one they chose.

Bruce Norris: 18:05

Yeah, and the average length of time ownership is you know, it's good. It's grown a lot. But still at five year journey is a fairly long time to own something. What you know what's interesting about the 50 years worth of charts that we looked at, at the I Survived event. We had a methodical slowdown between 1996 We had a crisis crash in 08, and no price crash of any kind and 80 and 81. And the charts in 2008 were much better than the charts and 80 and 81. As far as the inventory for sale was like eight months, not 22 months. And so the difference was what was that inventory made up of? And so when you unpack that, it looks like they have really big price damage, you have to have an urgent have to sell pile of inventory that dominates the value of every other property. And we don't have that you're not going to have a bunch of foreclosures on houses that have payments, less than rent. And the other factor about that is the timing of that price boom. That happened in a very tight timeframe. At the end of 2019 prices were kind of flattening. They weren't going anywhere. Also you have the the Coronavirus hit, and by the time you hit April, all of a sudden you're off to the races for a year and a half. Well the price in California went up 50% in that 18 months. So if you were a buyer, you had a very big equity position really fast. If you were just a buyer at the end of 2019 you had a 50% equity because there are 50% price rise. You were had a big equity position and you also had a chance to refi. So how was that pilot property is going to turn into a giant pile of foreclosures, it just is not. At the same time rents went up. So your payments keeps on going lower, because you're refilling it, and the rents explode. And you now your payments less than rent. So the you have the back end safety valve is saying, Well, if I get if I lose my job, I get transferred, I have a positive cash flow rental, I'm good. So I don't know how inventory is going to show up. And then where's the half to sell inventory gonna show up is that the unemployed. So if it's the unemployed they have, they either don't own a home, which that isn't going to produce inventory. Or if they do own a home, they have enough equity for it not to be a foreclosure and they may have so much equity, and the loan rate is so good. That's a cash flow rental The heck with it, I'll come back, I can move back right? I'll go do why do whatever I do over there. And I come back in may live in my house two years later. I don't think you could ever read that sentence before. And now we're here.

Joey Romero: 20:59

One of the things I've heard you talk about is the spread between, you know, the fed fund rate and interest. Now, let's say for some reason, we get to eight and a half, and we're still pushing high. Is that going to drag? Is that going to force pals hand and say, Well, you know, what we got to get, you know, we got to increase. Because you've talked about the spread has never been this big. You know, so which which is going to pull the other, you know, is the Fed funds rate gonna pull interest down? Or is interest going to pull the fed fund rate up?

Bruce Norris: 21:37

Well, I think what was interesting that was sort of above my paygrade was the discussion that was had about who buying that. So that was artificially low, because the Fed was buying that paper. And now they're not buying that paper. And so that spread as ever been as high because you're having to have, let's say a buyer that think that's in their best interest, as opposed to the Fed backstopping an industry that they just want to have interest rates lower. So I think the question really is, do you ever see an event where they step in and do that again? Are they going to come in and rescue real estate because it has an 8 and a half percent mortgage? No, I don't think so. But I don't think we're headed. That way, I think you're going to have some factors kick in, where you have less inflation, some more unemployment, definitely have wage. Now, you know, you do have these big union contracts that are making, you know, bigger salaries. But Craig, correct me if I'm wrong, but over time, they have less buying power. So you can get a wage raise of 25% from McDonald's over the course of four years. And I will bet you money that during that cycle, you'll be buying less at the grocery store than you were before you got the raise. So that's not really a functional positive.

Joey Romero: 23:10

Yeah, in the last three months, we were spending more than we're earning. And that's just data. Now, the only the only way people really, so one of the stats that came out of this story was folks who stayed in their jobs got a 5.7 pay increase, the ones that left for new job, got an 8.4 increase in their wage, because they left you know, our dollar is is stretched way too thin. And, you know, it was a recurring kind of theme on the panel. And I don't want to get too much into it because, you know, I want folks to hear it for themselves as well, because it was a great night. So let's transition into that, you know, I Survived Real Estate, was another great event, well attended, and just the feedback that I've gotten from everybody has just been tremendous. So I wanted to get your guys's thoughts on a couple of things, you know, and either one of you guys can jump in. But I want to hear from both of you on this. Was there anything that you heard Friday night from the panel or from people that you spoke to that surprised you?

Bruce Norris: 24:17

I'll step in and say I didn't realize why the interest rate spread was short with was so narrow, that that part, you know, was an eye opener, which is, you know, is it's fun to having a panel members that are smarter than I am for sure.

Joey Romero: 24:36

And willing to dish and willing to tell you.

Bruce Norris: 24:39

Yeah, no, just I think what's been great. That was kind of neat, because there was a lot of back and forth on the panel. And I think that's from years of trust, that we can disagree with each other or bring up different, you know, scenarios and that makes it fun. But you know, when Some of those people with a lot of experience, started saying things, you know, Doug Duncan had me in front of Raphael Bostic, who's one of the people that's, you know, a big name in the Fed. So I had a one on one meeting him with him, you know, that was pretty cool. But that was over my paygrade. That was because of him. So I think that there's some things that he knows in his mind that I probably don't. So that's what's fun to batted around with him. And him knowing that there was no buyer at that level of, you know, the spread was so big because there wasn't a buyer at a less of a spread. Okay. That's interesting to know. So then you have to think, Okay, well, when is that going to change? You know, and so.

Joey Romero: 25:50

Craig what surprised you?

Craig Evans: 25:54

I think the biggest thing that surprised me was, despite all that we've talked about with ADUs. There's a lot of people talking to me about ADUs, and how to finance them. And, you know, despite talking with Cornelius on the panel, and then even beforehand, he and Bruce had a good conversation about the that nobody is really even thought through how to implement what is going to take place because of the ADUs and where's that going? And so, I was, I was honestly, I was quite surprised to see how many people were ready to jump in, despite kind of some of the uncertainties and the unknowns that are in there with ADUs, you know, that's coming out? That honestly, that surprised me.

Joey Romero: 26:46

It's gonna be a culture shock coming from Florida.

Bruce Norris: 26:49

You know, I just thought I just thought of sort of a correlation. So, Craig, have you ever dealt with leased land?

Craig Evans: 26:58

Yes.

Bruce Norris: 26:59

Okay.

Craig Evans: 26:59

We've done some of that here in Florida.

Bruce Norris: 27:00

Okay, so in Palm Springs, this could happen, actually did happen. So I bought 50 building lots. But I had a sub leasehold interest. So I didn't have the leasehold interest. I had the sub leasehold interest, but there was also somebody that had fee simple interest. So when my title policy showed up on the fee simple interest, there was a$13 million first trustee. Did that affect my level of ownership? No. It did not. You could have had a loan to the land, the land lease that would not have you could have had three loans. You could have Bruce Norris on the subject of leasehold interest, and I would not be impacted by the other levels of debt because they could not pursue my level of interest. And the reason I'm bringing that up, can you imagine this scenario? I have a free and clear house or let's say have been boarded house in Riverside and somebody builds an ADU and now we can deed that to them. Well, that means they can borrow money, so you can have a first trustee does on the owner's portion of the house and you can have a first trust deed on the ADU in the garage. And they don't conflict. But that's that's weird stuff, right?

Joey Romero: 28:22

So creative.

Craig Evans: 28:24

... a foreclose on the garage, can they come after your main house?

Bruce Norris: 28:28

No, it's a different ownership, just like that's why it took a lot we were selling these lights trying to explain you don't have to worry about that $13 million first trust deed, it's not on your level of ownership. That's a lot to tell people, you know.

Joey Romero: 28:46

So, my other question about I Survived what was the highlight for you? And you don't have to say it was my speech.

Bruce Norris: 28:57

Of course it was, you know what? It touched so many people. So that was the highlight coming in, maybe a distant second was the gentleman from the military that, you know, gave a heartfelt talk and he was nervous. And he what was crazy is he apologized to me for doing a bad job while he's getting a standing ovation. And I went no, no, no.

Joey Romero: 29:22

I must. I must have run into him five more times at night. And every time. I'm so sorry. I went over Joey. I'm so sorry. I went over.

Bruce Norris: 29:29

At the end, the standing ovation. It was very kind. I think that was kind of a thank you for all the years of us bringing value to an industry, you know.

Joey Romero: 29:40

Yeah.

Bruce Norris: 29:41

That was very cool.

Joey Romero: 29:43

Craig, what was the highlight for you?

Craig Evans: 29:45

Yeah, I definitely think the the gentleman that spoke from that was from the military. You know, we I've got a lot of military and my family and military background from our family and my wife's family and a lot of friends. So it was, it was very sombering to hear and see him trying to keep his composure to get through that, but to see his heart for his brothers and sisters that are, are going through something that most people will never know and understand. And it's easy to talk about and have talking points. But most people don't understand the demons and the wars they waged in their mind. I, you guys have gotten to know me enough over the years, I wear my sometimes, I wear my emotions on my sleeve some and it was I enjoyed, you know that he got his time, he got the opportunity and the time and everybody listened with bated breath to hear what he had to say, I appreciated Bruce that you brought him up. And obviously I know the backstory of that. And that meant a lot because I've known that story for me for four years now of how you even came to know this gentleman that was there that night. But that whole process was very special. For me, I was excited to see that knowing it was coming. I did not know all of what the gentleman was gonna say. So it was a great moment.

Bruce Norris: 31:11

I've been carrying around the other coin or medal for about 10 years. So I gave that to his daughter. So now I have his medal. I just can't get rid of these things. Well, for him it was a top on his list. So I've given that some thought, you know, yeah, really have I? Like what am I doing with this?

Joey Romero: 31:34

Yes.

Bruce Norris: 31:35

It means that much to him.

Joey Romero: 31:37

Yes, absolutely.

Bruce Norris: 31:38

Next time I in California, I may chase him down and give that back to him. Because I,you know what? Who knows? Man, he could be looking at this someday and save his own life, right?

Joey Romero: 31:48

Yeah. Yeah.

Bruce Norris: 31:49

That occurred to me. It's like, so yeah, I thought about that. That way, we thought I thought I had lost it. And I'm looking over I'm calling Joey, do you have it? I found it in my, in a part of my bag that I had looked at and I was like, I gotta find this. Oh, God.

Craig Evans: 32:10

The thing that meant a lot from you know, Bruce, when you told me about the first instance where the gentleman gave you his award and and of course the gentleman giving you that the other night you know, my wife's grandfather actually has purple heart superstars. Lot of awards that we actually didn't even know about until probably three years ago because he doesn't speak about a lot of the stuff that he lived through and you know, the demons in his mind and stuff. So knowing what those things and the privateness that is to a lot of these guys and ladies in their life that thought that was very special and show you know his heart for you and what you're bringing to the forefront of this that I thought that was very special moment

Joey Romero: 32:57

Bruce has told that story it to transpire, you know, real estate agents, real estate investors that never forget that our business is a people business. And, you know, never forget about who you're sitting across the table with. And constant reminders that do the right thing above everything, you know, that should be your, your overall, you're the driving force in your soul is always do the right thing. That's the definition of integrity is doing the right thing when nobody's watching. For me, the highlight truly was just seeing all the sponsors that have been there for years and years and years. And then just, you know, giving you a hug and just saying thank you for doing this again. And you got to find a way to do this again, we can't let this end this can't be the last one. But the truly the biggest highlight of Bruce was the breakfast the next morning. After you had you know, left, it was just Tony Alvarez and I you know, and Sabrina and you know, Chloe, and he went on a one of his stories, and it was like the real estate Forrest Gump story was, I mean, just it was the longest story that I could have, like, I was like, each part got more and more and more unbelievable. And I was just like, Oh my God, that's Tony like we got to get that on the radio again. Because he I don't think he's talked about it on the radio show. So I'll save that for that, but that was the funnest thing that I've ever heard. I was like, Oh my God.

Bruce Norris: 34:37

But you know what happened with with a speaking in January is Buddy Rushing has this plan to do two or three things next year. And he's doing one on San Diego, and he really didn't have it, you know spoken for. So he asked me because I had participated in Vegas for him. And he said would I do that I said, How about if I get Tony Alvarez, and, and he, you know, you know, do that, if he'll do it, I'll do it. So that called Tony and yeah, so he said Yeah, so that that'll be kind of fun.

Joey Romero: 35:11

It was like, oh my god, like, you know, Forrest Gump in the movie, you know, it was like, he's part of history, you know, just by accident. And it was this whole thing about, you know, oh, like I said, I'll save it for another radio show. But it was it was amazing. And that's just what Tony is, you know, you can be talking about, you know, his his rentals, your rentals, your real estate, and then, you know, he's been in the game so long that he goes on this just story and it was just the greatest thing I've ever heard.

Bruce Norris: 35:44

Craig, do you know how I met Tony?

Craig Evans: 35:46

No.

Bruce Norris: 35:47

Okay, I spoke in front of an audience at the Apartment Owners Association. And, you know, probably four or 500 people in the audience, somebody raised their hand asked me a question on commercial property. I said, the honest way that I'm not that familiar with commercial property. So, you know, I really don't feel like I should be the one that to give you advice on that. Tony heard that and just said, wow, okay, that was all instant and automatic honesty. He didn't, you know, try to pretend anything. So that's why he came up to meet me. So when we met, he had 50 rentals, and he was going to sell them all this is 2003. And I said, I wouldn't do that. And I'll tell you why you have your rentals, nine miles away from a project, I'm dragging my feet to build until 2004. So I can get done with it in mid 2005. And I think you'll miss a lot of upside. So long story short, he made $3 million extra money. That's not why I'm telling you the story. I really like, I really love to Tony was and I said, have you ever spoken to an audience with real estate. And I put together a seminar where I had four or five different people that had very specific skills that they were going to buy in a different way than anybody else. And Tony was just friendly. He made people love him. And so I put him as his last speaker, because I knew what was going to happen. So he was kind of kind of scared about speaking. And I kind of got him to think about a different way he knocked it out of the park. And I'm telling you what, people lined up for a half hour to hug him. That was the reaction of the audience and I knew that was coming. You know, Mike, you know who Mike Cantu is? Yes. Mike Cantu, okay. He was one of the speakers but that was on a different you know, he's different how he did it. And he told me at the end of the day, he says thank you for not having me speak after Tony.

Craig Evans: 37:50

Tony I guess I met him three years ago, he has been an honor and a pleasure to know always an honorable man and everything he does, so.

Bruce Norris: 37:58

Yeah, he's a great guy really like it.

Joey Romero: 38:02

Well, guys, that's we're up against it. It's just time flies when we just start talking about anything really. So want to thank everybody for joining us again for Bruce Norris. Craig Evans. I'm Joey Romero. We'll see you next time.

Bruce Norris: 38:17

Okay, thank you.

Craig Evans: 38:19

Bye. Bye.

Narrator: 38:20

For more information on hard money, loans and upcoming events with The Norris Group, check out thenorrisgroup.com. For information on passive investing with trust deeds, visit tngtrustdeeds.com.

Aaron Norris: 38:35

The Norris Group originates and services loans in California and Florida under California DRE License 01219911, Florida Mortgage Lender License 1577, and NMLS License 1623669. For more information on hard money lending, go www.thenorrisgroup.com and click the Hard Money tab.