John Sebree joined the CALIFORNIA ASSOCIATION OF REALTORS® as chief executive officer and state secretary in early 2022, overseeing the association’s objectives, business development, strategic planning, legislative policies and creating products so that real estate professionals can remain at the center of the real estate transaction and succeed in today’s rapidly changing real estate market.
Sebree previously served as chief executive officer of Missouri REALTORS® for more than seven years. Prior to his move to Missouri, Sebree served as Senior Vice President of Public Policy for Florida REALTORS® for 11 years. Prior to that, he worked in the Government Affairs division of the NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF REALTORS® (NAR) in Washington, DC for 13 years. Sebree was a Senior Legislative Representative working with the congressional delegations of eight states. Prior to NAR, Sebree worked for two years for the U.S. House of Representatives Committee on Banking, Finance and Urban Affairs.
A native of Kentucky, Sebree received a bachelor's degree in Business Management from Northern Kentucky University, where he was Student Body President. He earned an MBA from The George Washington University in Washington, DC.
In this episode:
The Norris Group originates and services loans in California and Florida under California DRE License 01219911, Florida Mortgage Lender License 1577, and NMLS License 1623669. For more information on hard money lending, go www.thenorrisgroup.com and click the Hard Money tab.
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John Sebree joined the CALIFORNIA ASSOCIATION OF REALTORS® as chief executive officer and state secretary in early 2022, overseeing the association’s objectives, business development, strategic planning, legislative policies and creating products so that real estate professionals can remain at the center of the real estate transaction and succeed in today’s rapidly changing real estate market.
Sebree previously served as chief executive officer of Missouri REALTORS® for more than seven years. Prior to his move to Missouri, Sebree served as Senior Vice President of Public Policy for Florida REALTORS® for 11 years. Prior to that, he worked in the Government Affairs division of the NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF REALTORS® (NAR) in Washington, DC for 13 years. Sebree was a Senior Legislative Representative working with the congressional delegations of eight states. Prior to NAR, Sebree worked for two years for the U.S. House of Representatives Committee on Banking, Finance and Urban Affairs.
A native of Kentucky, Sebree received a bachelor's degree in Business Management from Northern Kentucky University, where he was Student Body President. He earned an MBA from The George Washington University in Washington, DC.
In this episode:
The Norris Group originates and services loans in California and Florida under California DRE License 01219911, Florida Mortgage Lender License 1577, and NMLS License 1623669. For more information on hard money lending, go www.thenorrisgroup.com and click the Hard Money tab.
Video Link
Radio Show
Welcome to The Norris Group real estate podcast, a show committed to bringing you insights from thought leaders shaping the real estate industry. In each episode, we'll dive into conversations with industry experts and local insiders, all aimed at helping you thrive in an ever-changing real estate market. continuing the legacy that Bruce Norris created, sharing valuable knowledge, and empowering you on your real estate journey. Whether you're a seasoned pro or a newcomer, this is your go-to source for insider tips, market trends and success strategies. Here's your host, Craig Evans.
Craig Evans:Hey, everybody, glad to have you on board. This is Craig Evans and today we've got a very special guest with us. We've got John Sebree. John is the CEO of California Association of Realtors. John joined the California Association of Realtors as a CEO and state secretary in early'22, overseeing the association's objectives the business development, strategic planning, legislative policies, and creating products so that real estate professionals can remain at the center of the real estate transaction and succeed in today's rapidly changing real estate market. John previously served as a Chief Executive Officer of Missouri Realtors for more than seven years. Prior to his moved to Missouri, John served as Senior Vice-President of public policy for my state the Florida Realtors for 11 years. Prior to that he worked in the government affairs division of the National Association of Realtors, NAR in Washington, DC for 13 years. John was the Senior Legislative Representative working with the congressional delegations of eight states prior to NAR, Sebree worked for two years for the US House of Representatives Committee on Banking, Finance and Urban Affairs. John is a native of Kentucky and received a bachelor's degree in business management from Northern Kentucky University where he was a student body president. He's earned an MBA from George Washington University in Washington, DC. Well, John, man, that's a mouthful, and you have had a career.
John Sebree:So hopefully, hopefully, no one was adding up those years as you were talking.
Craig Evans:Oh, man, well, listen, first of all, I want to say welcome to the show. It's good to have you it was a pleasure meeting you last year and getting to know you and so, you know, I guess one of the first question is, first of all, you know, family is big to me, and our company. So how did the New Year treats you? How did your holidays treat you?
John Sebree:The holidays are everything. I spent them I have a farm in Kentucky and so I host the entire family, all of my nieces and nephews.
Craig Evans:Wow.
John Sebree:Interestingly, all of my nieces and nephews only have boys. So we have 10 Little great nephews running around at my big barn. And I host everyone there on Christmas Eve and just really had a blast and then came back to Los Angeles to celebrate the New Year and some of my family came back with me. So, it was fun to be here with siblings and nieces and nephews celebrating the New Year on the West Coast.
Craig Evans:Because you're originally from Kentucky if I remember, right?
John Sebree:Yes, I grew up there.
Craig Evans:So you know, I'm a southern boy. So growing from rural Kentucky, going into the nation's capital, working your way through that Tell, tell me a little bit of that process.
John Sebree:It was pretty fascinating, because, you know, I really am from a small town. This is a town halfway between Lexington, Kentucky and Cincinnati, Ohio. There's not much there, except the interstate goes through there. And so I went to college from a small high school there were 25 in my high school graduating class. And, you know, I was very shy. I, you know, probably TMI, but at my freshman 101 public speaking class, if I thought I was going to have to talk in front of people that day, I would probably be sick that morning. Just nervous thinking about talking in front of people. But fast forward. By the end of my college career, I was the student body president. Something just changed in me college was such a wonderful experience. And I learned so much from those around me. And so that's what led me to Washington DC being a student body president. I was invited to the inauguration of President George Herbert Walker Bush right after my graduation while in Washington for his inauguration, I interviewed him and got a job. So I went back home packed up and moved to DC and when you are young, right out of college in DC, everyone, I mean, so many people are in your same situation, and they become your family, you know, we're all like orphans, spending Easter together and Thanksgiving together, because you can't afford to get back home to where you're from and meeting people who are now all across the globe. From that 30 plus years ago, it was just a really wonderful experience, and I was ready for it. So I think, that was the thing, I was craving something different. And I got it in Washington, DC. Well,
Craig Evans:I was actually just going to ask you, you know, growing up in small towns, and coming into what you are now, you know, as a dad with two daughters, you know, I'm always trying to encourage them in areas to look in, like, I mean, when you're a kid growing up in that area, what did you want to be growing up? I mean, you're talking about you're nervous and shy? And, you know, what was your thoughts growing through them?
John Sebree:So I first thought I wanted to be an architect. And I looked into that University of Kentucky has a great program. And then, you know, then I started thinking, you know, I'm sort of interested in public service. And to be in public service, you sort of need to make a little money first, maybe, so maybe I should go into business. And so I honestly looked into my major in college, I feel looking back, I wish I had had a little more direction. But then I'm glad that I lucked into what I did. I chose business management. And within business management, you had to choose a track, I chose organizational behavior. The interesting thing about that is organizational behavior helps you understand what makes people tick, how you get the most out of employees to reach success. And that experience as an undergrad all those years ago, has helped me in every job I've ever had. And just one quick story, being in organizational behavior as an undergrad, and, you know, reading the textbooks and hearing from your professors about how you should be treated in a business environment. My very first job on Capitol Hill in Washington was for a member of Congress who shall remain nameless, who screamed at everyone every day, and who loved being the bully. And, you know, people left crying each day and, and something inside me knew that wasn't how you treat people. And I stood up to him here, I was a kid who needed my paycheck, you know. And I stood up to him and said, you don't treat people that way. No one had ever done that. He respected me so much more after that. And here I was 21, 22 years old, standing up to a longtime member of Congress, because he was the textbook example of how not to treat people. So I think I learned more from that, if I had left college and worked for the nicest person who treated everyone great. I would have just thought, well, this is how it is. This is what I read it was supposed to be and so they're, you know, instead I learned more and I it's sort of a baptism by fire.
Craig Evans:But you know, it's a culture matters, doesn't it?
John Sebree:It sure does, oh man.
Craig Evans:So well, that's, it's cool. So let me ask you this did housing just strike a chord? Or did you kind of fall into that process?
John Sebree:You know, I've had a lot of dumb luck in my life, haven't I? And now that you're you're raising this, I'm feeling like I'm falling into all these things. So the year...
Craig Evans:Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good right now.
John Sebree:That's true. So this is what will date me if you didn't already with all the years that you put out there. So my time on Capitol Hill with the US House Banking, Finance and Urban Affairs Committee was 1989 and 90, this was the savings and loan crisis. And that's all we did. I was on the general oversight and investigation staff and we traveled the country, working on credit crisis issues, having field hearings, talking to homeowners, bankers, you know, real tours even. And so it was during that time that the realtors were spending a lot of time in our office as we're Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and others and one of them came to me and said, hey, the National Association of REALTORS has an opening for this lobbyists position we think you'd be great based on what you're doing here. And so I interviewed for the job and got it so after two years on the hill, in AR hired me away to do housing issues. And so that's how I fell into the realtor organization
Craig Evans:That's pretty cool. So...
John Sebree:It could've just as easily been the bankers or the mortgage bankers or some other group that hired me away from the hill, but it was the realtors and I stuck with it.
Craig Evans:So that was 88, 89. When did you move into Florida then I'm trying to remember?
John Sebree:So, I was within AR 13 years, I moved to Florida at the end of 2003.
Craig Evans:Okay, so you were there that would put you you were in Florida during the recession?
John Sebree:I was yeah, these kinds of things tend to follow me as well. So I have these baptism by fire moments. Everywhere I go, it seems well, I got there and things were fairly quiet. Let me tell you a quick story about that. I've been at that point. I've been in Washington, 15 years, I'm lobbying the White House government agencies, all these congressional offices. George W. Bush was president at that point. You know, fast forward all those years, my friends at the White House said you're moving to Tallahassee, Florida, the President's brother is the governor, we got to set up a meet, like right after you get there. So I sit down with Jeb Bush within a couple of weeks of being in Tallahassee. And he said, did you know I was a commercial realtor before I got into public office. And I was a little embarrassed that I hadn't done my homework, I guess. But Jeb Bush had been a commercial realtor in Miami, that knew our association incredibly well. And he said to me, you're about to wake a sleeping giant, the realtors can do so much more in the public policy arena than they're doing. And I'm going to work with you on this basically. And so we had a really good relationship, I went with Jeb Bush on his trade missions, you know, had great success in making the connection between real estate and economic development. And I've created a passion for that, that I spend a lot of time on now, helping Realtors understand the role they play in the larger economy. So yeah, a lot goes back to those first few weeks in Florida.
Craig Evans:So I was gonna say, tell me, tell me about your experience of that kind of leading up to the kind of the crash in 08. And, and you're kind of gearing and heading
John Sebree:Yeah, so at that point, you know, I'm in through that, but especially from a real estate side of Tallahassee, I'm not the CEO of the state association in things, climbing out of a weight. Tell me some of those processes and what you experienced with that. Orlando, I was running the political policy operation. So I immediately went into this mode of educating legislators and the governor, the governor came to me and said, he asked what is a So, let me ask you this. And I don't know if you had if you short sale? Because suddenly, he was hearing about this in the media. And, you know, I don't blame a governor for not knowing what a short sale was in, you know, early in that crisis. But I educated and I was in touch every single day, because I knew there would be legislative policy positions that could be taken to help get us through all of that. And so working directly with the House, the Senate, the governor's office, federal government agencies, we were able to really help our members were able to see an effect change in this. But, you know, be at the center, and help the public pull through something as traumatic as all of that. So that was a really important time for me from a policy perspective. Florida is a legislative state, the foreclosure process takes longer in Florida that it doesn't traditionally or things like that. How did you see that affected the recovery? And were you able to affect those processes from Tallahassee?
Craig Evans:I'm giving you flashbacks. So let me ask you Yeah, we, you know, we created toolkits for our members so that they could easily find things on the website, and then we would this because you know you're in a state now that I am kind of populate it and change it constantly through our, you growing into and got a love for obviously we've got a presence know, coalition partners and meeting with banks every day to talk to them about the pain points that our members and the public were having and trying to create new systems and that kind of thing and put legislative pressure on banks to maybe there and a longtime presence here with The Norris Group. You change the way they did things or appraisers, appraisal management companies, you know, it's hard for me to remember back now to everything we did at that time, but we hired an outside consultant to come in and do studies for us on those pain points and how to help the public get through those. easier and better. And yeah, it's, I'd almost forget about it. But thank you for bringing all this up. know, Florida is my state that I currently live in. I've been here for 18 years, something like that. So for that, and I'll be honest, John, that's why I really enjoyed meeting you and get to talk to you because, you know, you've had your feet in both states. So, but with you being in Florida, what do you think was your proudest accomplishment? The biggest wind that you had in Florida?
John Sebree:You know, there are a lot of things I look back on. But one was after the Gulf oil spill, it really impacted five states, but the Gulf Coast of Florida was incredibly impacted. And people have probably forgotten about this unless they've watched the movie with is it Mark Wahlberg or someone, is in this movie about the Gulf oil spill? But or maybe it's Matt Damon. But anyway, we jumped into action immediately because home sales completely stopped along the gulf coast all the way from Pensacola. down to south of well, I mean, even around to Naples, like the entire Gulf coast was impacted. The President of the United States implemented a Gulf oil spill Claims Facility. For those that were impacted. They were not going to consider real estate as a as an impacted class. Maybe they thought it was too big or something like that. So we jumped into action. And I went directly to Ken Feinberg. If that name rings a bell, Ken Feinberg is who was in charge of the 911 Claims Facility for all those who were impacted by 911 the families and he led that. So then the President of the United States called on him to lead this effort because he had done that one. So I worked directly with him became very close to Ken Feinberg. And we had a carve out for real estate, real estate professionals. Because of the work I had done in Florida. On Property Insurance at the time, you know, I was traveling the world meeting with Lloyds of London and, you know, other major reinsurers to try to get Florida in a better place with insurance. Now I see history has repeated itself in Florida, because all this is coming back. But I can't be blamed, I've been gone, you know. But, but at the time, we dealt with those insurance issues, I had all these connections. So we created the call centers, we did all of that, and got millions and millions and millions of dollars into the pockets of those who are impacted. And it's something that, you know, you're not going to read a lot about, but we made a huge difference for those who needed it at the time. I remember Ken Feinberg came to testify before the state legislature. And he called me and said, I'm not walking into that room unless you walk in with me, because they. And I walked in with him and sat there right behind him and supported him because of the work that he had done in Florida at that point. So that was something pretty specific. But it's...
Craig Evans:Yeah, and that was a big deal for the state of Florida. That was a huge process. And like you said, all five states are affected. But, you know, living here and going through that, that was a big deal. That was a big deal. So well, listen, let me jump into a few headlines real quick, if I can.
John Sebree:Sure.
Craig Evans:In early 2023. You know, kind of the, the whole thing of real estate was about it was interest rates, right? I mean, everything was interest rates for 2023. You know, I remember in 2022, so many people were saying, you know, the markets gonna drop 20, 25%. And here's what interest rates are doing process is, we didn't see that much of a drop, right. We didn't see price, damage, things like that. We did see a drop in the volume of sales, especially in California, you've been in California, now. There's, there's a considerable drop in California, with with rates now that we're seeing them, you know, what, they're, they're down a point and a half or so in the last 90 days. You know, they were a couple bibs yesterday, but I mean, you know, we're really kind of seeing that that downward trend. What do you see, I'm not asking for you to whip out your crystal ball. But what do you see what are you projecting? What do you look at for 2024? Yeah,
John Sebree:so just first answering the 2023 part quickly. Our members and the public had a really tough 2023. We had, we ended 2023 with the lowest home sales numbers in California in 16 years.
Craig Evans:You know, that decrease in sales volume?
John Sebree:It is, it is. So the volume way down, like you said, prices not not, you know, but that's a product of supply and demand. So, I have been talking to a lot of our members, I'm on the road almost every day, we have over 200,000 members, and I'm trying to get everywhere I possibly can. And I see light at the end of the tunnel. You mentioned interest rates coming down, I think they're going to become a more normal number to people, they're never going to be three and a half percent, again. But people are, buyers are going to start getting used to numbers that are more in the five and 6% range. So as that normalization happens, we are actually predicting about a 23% increase in home sales in California in 2024, which is huge. That is the light at the end of the tunnel. Oh, it's wonderful. Because finally, you know, there are so many out there who are sitting in their house, and they don't want that house anymore. They want to downsize, they want to upsize, but they're not making a move. And so once we get people off the fence, it's just going to create a wonderful ripple effect throughout the economy. And so there will be lots of positive sales and purchase.
Craig Evans:And even I know you and I talked about this some at the at the I Survived Real Estate event in November that you know, if prices stayed the same, and then there was no price damage, you've got a 50% cut in sales volume, in essence, you know, that's a 50% loss in jobs from the real estate. So, your members, the real estate community of California saw a loss of 50% of the their income status, everything, so that'll be a good process to see. If we can hit those type of projections, that's gonna be fantastic for the state of California.
John Sebree:It is. it's huge, you know, people don't realize how hard a realtor works and how little they make. And so yeah, the price of our members is very, very low for 2023. But yeah, that increase in volume will, is much needed. And again, I am preaching that there is light at the end of the tunnel, so hold on.
Craig Evans:Good. Well, listen, if you don't mind, I'm gonna jump in. I had a couple of things I want to address but I know over the last, you know, the end of 2023, NAR, you know, National Association of REALTORS ended in kind of a turbulent fashion, if we will with the lawsuits and everything that came to play. I was going to ask a different question. But all of a sudden, I heard that last night, there was some different news that came out in the state of California. I know, I saw that you guys have put a statement out? Can you share some of that with us?
John Sebree:Sure. Yes. As you mentioned, October 31 is a date that we will not soon forget. That's the date that the Burnett verdict came down in Kansas City. And since that date, there have been copycat lawsuits all over the United States, I think very little effort put into determining how states operate differently. If you'rea trial attorney, you're just thinking, Oh, this could be a great payday for me. So let me slap another state in AR and another state and some other companies with just a copycat suit. So that has been happening all across the United States for the past several months, and we've expected it to happen in California. Finally yesterday, in addition to NAR a number of local associations and MLS, and some companies CAR was listed as a co defendant in a copycat seller lawsuit. So we are there. But again, we planned ahead. We know California is a little different. We have buyer agency agreements, our contract that every seller signs.
Joey Romero:John, excuse me. Can you touch a little bit about what the actual lawsuit alleges?
John Sebree:Yes, yeah, sure, of course, Joey. So all of these lawsuits, for the most part claim that the seller doesn't know that part of the commission they're paying is going to the buyer's agent, and that they shouldn't have to pay for that buyer's representation. Now obviously, it's the way it's been done for many many years and, and it's possible that in some states, it's not clear to the seller that they are paying the part of the buyer's Commission, or that part of the commission they're paying is going to the buyer's agent. In California, it is clear, we have operated differently in California for many, many years. It's a special line item in the contract, that the actual amount of commission, the percentage that's going to the buyer's agents, so it's firmly there. We are a very pro consumer state. And then not to mention, in California, non realtors have been able to put listings in the MLS since the 1970s. You know, there's this thing among many of the trial attorneys that, oh, you know, you're this cartel. And, you know, you don't let anyone in, but those who are part of the club, well, we have operated this way in California since the 1970s, where you didn't have to be a realtor to are a member of a local association to put your listings in the MLS. So we're just different. So but that doesn't prevent someone from filing a lawsuit, we just know that we have a very good defense, and we will, we'll jump on that. But it will make our members nervous that we've been sued.
Craig Evans:Well, and that's what I want to make sure and get out because I knew that was coming after reading that and talking about it. And I wanted to make sure and give you some space, even with, you know, the listeners that we've got so that we can get out to the members that are that are part of our listening group to know and understand that, hey, you know, CAR is already on the ball, and they're working through that process, you know, that you were prepared for it? You know, so? So, you know, I know there was another law recently passed from an investment standpoint, that prohibits from being able to perform a credit check on prospective tenants. What is your experience of working in with California and the government? They are the state government from an aspect of housing.
John Sebree:Yeah, so I'm coming up on my two year anniversary here in California. And I will say working with the California Legislature is quite different than my previous two states of Missouri and Florida where we had, you know, majority Republican legislatures, and I don't want to be political here. But I will say the California Legislature is not a majority Republican legislature, as you know. And my biggest concern with the California Legislature is that they are in a renter nation mindset. And they are overlooking the benefits of generational wealth building from homeownership. And they're completely missing the boat on that. Now, I will say in the past year, Democrats, Republicans, independents, no party affiliation, candidates, everyone is talking about housing in California, because we're at a crisis point, whether it's the homelessness issues, or whether it's just the lack of availability. And so from the Governor and Attorney General on down, they are actively suing cities that are not meeting their minimum affordable housing quotas, because they do have those. And California Association of Realtors actually set up a separate nonprofit that we call Californians, for homeownership, where we have a team of attorneys, who are also suing cities and winning, because the cities are playing games and not they're, you know, they're engaged in the not in my backyard theory. And so we are winning, and we've got the support of many. So the tide is turning, I think you're gonna see, you know, there are a lot of issues in California where the tide is turning the you know, whether it's crime, people are sick and tired of cities like San Francisco or Oakland, or LA, having district attorneys who allow people to walk into CVS or Walgreens and steal up to$1,000 because they know they're not going to be prosecuted. You know, you might say that's not a real estate issue, but it is everything's a real estate issue. We should care about crime. We should care about education and all of these other issues. And so we are seeing the pendulum swing. Just last week, the legislature came back for are, you know the beginning of the session for 2024. And while I'm not in Sacramento, I'm following the news every day. And I get there quite a bit. There were Republicans and Democrats holding press conferences on crime and how they're going to tackle this in this legislative session. So again, I'll say it again, I think we're seeing the pendulum swing on a lot of these issues, where people common sense, California and see that, you know, elected officials are out of touch, and have been out of touch, especially at the local level. And let me just tell you one other thing. Soon after I got to California, about a year and a half ago, we work very closely with our local associations, we worked with the San Francisco Association, and we funded their effort, their recall effort of the district attorney, and the school board, and we won both. And it starts at the local level, you know, we didn't have wins like that, because unfortunately, the that elected official at the local level, who's doing these things, gets termed out and then moves on to the state level, and they become a state legislator. And before we know it, they're a member of Congress. So we've got to deal with these issues at the local level. And and we're doing that successfully as a partner.
Craig Evans:Well, John, I know as we kind of wrap this up and coming in our time, I know that you're I will say, I'm glad that your as much as I would miss you from being in Florida. I'm glad that you're there in California doing the work that you're doing. It has been an honor and a pleasure to have you on and for you to give your message to your members and to hear what's kind of going on in CAR and what you guys are doing. I appreciate all the work that you do there with, from the realtor side of things as well as the legislative and trying to affect legislative change. So I will say kind of greedily and selfishly, I want to ask you a question if I can, here we go. You were with us last year in November, and I survived real estate. Can I count on you being there again this year?
John Sebree:I would love it. As soon as you have a date, get it to me and we'll get it on the calendar.
Craig Evans:Fantastic. I'll make sure Joey gets that over. It'll be a privilege and an honor to have you on the panel with us again this year. And again, guys, listen, we want to thank everybody for being here today and listen to what we've got and listen to John and the wisdom that he brings to the table and all of his life experiences. And we just want to say thank you for being here. And everybody have a good day.
Narrator:For more information on hard money loans, trust deed investing, and upcoming events with The Norris group. Check out thenorrisgroup.com. For more information on passive investing through the DBL Capital Real Estate Investment Fund, please visit dblapital.com.
Joey Romero:The Norris group originates and services loans in California and Florida under California DRE license 01219911. Florida mortgage lender license 1577 and NMLS license 1623669. For more information on hard money lending go to thenorrisgroup.com and click the hard money tab.