Welcome to the another episode of the TNG Real Estate New Roundup, it's previously What in the Real Estate. Today we are joined by Craig Evans and Bruce Norris, and Joey Romero. We're still about the latest headlines in the real estate industry.
In this episode:
-Builders outlook in 2024
-Real estate market trends in Southern California.
-Office Space Vacancy in California
The Norris Group originates and services loans in California and Florida under California DRE License 01219911, Florida Mortgage Lender License 1577, and NMLS License 1623669. For more information on hard money lending, go www.thenorrisgroup.com and click the Hard Money tab.
Video Link
Radio Show
Welcome to the another episode of the TNG Real Estate New Roundup, it's previously What in the Real Estate. Today we are joined by Craig Evans and Bruce Norris, and Joey Romero. We're still about the latest headlines in the real estate industry.
In this episode:
-Builders outlook in 2024
-Real estate market trends in Southern California.
-Office Space Vacancy in California
The Norris Group originates and services loans in California and Florida under California DRE License 01219911, Florida Mortgage Lender License 1577, and NMLS License 1623669. For more information on hard money lending, go www.thenorrisgroup.com and click the Hard Money tab.
Video Link
Radio Show
Welcome to The Norris Group real estate podcast, a show committed to bringing you insights from thought leaders shaping the real estate industry. In each episode, we'll dive into conversations with industry experts and local insiders, all aimed at helping you thrive in an ever-changing real estate market. continuing the legacy that Bruce Norris created, sharing valuable knowledge, and empowering you on your real estate journey. Whether you're a seasoned pro or a newcomer, this is your go-to source for insider tips, market trends and success strategies. Here's your host, Craig Evans.
Craig Evans:Welcome to our podcast. I'm your host, Craig Evans. And joining me today is none other than Bruce Norris, we're back again with our bi weekly real estate news roundup, where Bruce and I will just sit back and bat it back and forth about what's going on out in real estate. So, Bruce, how are you today? It's good to have you on today with us.
Bruce Norris:Craig, I'm great. How are you? How about you?
Craig Evans:I'm good. I'm good. It's always a good day, right? You had a chance to present a couple of days ago, I think last week to a couple of Florida real estate investment clubs, couple of region New York, Sarasota REIA, and southwest Florida REIA. How did that go? And what was different between the two clubs?
Bruce Norris:Well, one was the length of time. So I was, you know, I had about an hour and 15 minutes and then 35 minutes. So the same presentation, which was probably over 100 slides. As far as the audience, that' an interesting question. I thought the first audience in Sarasota was probably more experienced. And but that, what they had in common was probably a more of an interest, there's, there's always a concern that we're on the brink of the next crash. And so, and that was the gist of the of the presentation, because that to have a crash, you'd have to have something statistically repetitive. You know, there's really interesting over 50 years, that's what's fun about learning charts, and compiling the charts. When you go to a 1980 and 81, when you have 22 months of inventory for sale, and 16% interest rates, and 10% unemployment and you have no price damage to real estate at all. It's a hedge shaker, man, you go, Okay, well, what the heck, then you go to 2008, your interest rates are six, your unemployment is 10. And your price crashes by 50%. So you have to find out what was different there. You know, and that's what was different was the, the foreclosures were a dominant player in 2008. And in 2000, excuse me in 1980, and 81, they actually were one in four sales. So actually, I don't know if we did this in the second club, but it wasn't a lot of time. But in the first club, we actually looked at the stats for Florida, as to what percentage of the participation in the market is a combination of REOs, and short sales. And so when we divided that into the number of sales, it was not even 1%, it was a half a percent. So there's a history saying that if your market is 25%, of motivated sellers by the lender or short sale, you can sustain that without price damage. When it goes to 40%, you have some price damage when it goes to 70%, you crash. Well, now we're not 1%. So it's literally not a factor in the Florida market at all.
Craig Evans:Interesting that in that process between the two clubs. You've got one in Sarasota one here. And really it kind of shows an inch, the the mindset of the investor that they're all kind of asking that question, is that where we're headed, you know, so.
Bruce Norris:Yeah, I think it's, you know, we had, we've had a really good run. And okay, now let's talk about the statistics that say, is there an upside from here? And I would have to say, that's probably unlikely. So there's a chart that we made, it's just the percentage of income you have to use to buy a house. So Florida, historically, is close to its peak of it forever. So that would be equal or higher than 2008. So that means that the buyers really kind of priced out on a monthly basis. Well, one of the things about Florida like we're building homes in Redondo, 60% of their transactions are cash. So that's a kind of a helpful thing to have it to remember. Okay, well, that guy doesn't care what the mortgage is. He could still be a buyer.
Craig Evans:Right.
Bruce Norris:Um, but as interest rates go down and his wages go up, what that'll allow you to do was get back to some percentage of your income that's more in a normal range over time. And I think that's what we're in for. I don't think we're gonna go from, like we did from 2020 to 2022. I don't think we're going to go up 40% for any reason, I think we're just going to, I think we're going to maintain our price level, which is a big blessing, really is, you know.
Craig Evans:Listen, let's get on because we've got some good stories that I want to go over with you today and kind of talk about some headlines. So our first story is from USA Today headline reads like this “Rent or buy a house? The gap is narrowing for affordability in the US”. So again, directly from USA Today, article says, "yes, the rents have soared in the past year, outpacing the gains in home prices. But it's still more affordable to rent than own a home in nearly 90% according to a new report by ATTOM data solutions." You know, some of the biggest findings that we saw to this was the biggest gap from renting to own or renting or owning, like biggest gap in, is in Brooklyn at 72% for renting and 136% of income going to owning right. So in California, Oakland is at 51% is for rent, 108% is for owning, San Jose is 29% for rent 83% for owning. So you can see the difference in Orange County talking about in California 88% for rent 136% for owning the least affordable, interesting, we're just talking about the Florida market. The least affordable rental markets are Fort Myers, Florida, and Santa Barbara, California. So my question to you after this headline. My question to you is the homeownership is still the American dream. Does this article speak to the housing market in a crisis throughout the country?
Bruce Norris:Well, I'll tell you what, from my opinion, first of all, I'm big into homeownership. So I want my name on a deed where I close the door at night. And that's just part of what I have always dreamed of and I didn't give up when I wrote the California crash, and said prices are gonna go down by half, I sold everything other than my residence, knowing that it would go down by a lot, and it did. And I would repeat that decision. So I would try to find a way to own home, if I was on the buying side, whenever they come up with these statistics, you know, it's really geared to today's statement. Okay, a lot of people are priced out of the market. That doesn't mean the current owners suffering at all right, because they got a mortgage of two and a half or 3%, the price went up by 50%. And in two years, but their payments less than rent by far. So it you know, statistics are sort of made for headlines. And I think ATTOM is one of those companies that come out and go oh my god, you know, oh, my god, foreclosure is going to be horrendous here in just a little while because they count foreclosures supposedly accurately. But then you show the close sales in Florida, they're not 1%. So how do you have the statement over 'Oh, my gosh, we're into all kinds of foreclosure.' It's hard to have foreclosures, when your payments less than rent, by the way, which is really true for most people. Which also gives you the flexibility, let's say you did, in fact, lose your job. You could migrate to another area and rent your house because it may be the most valuable asset you have as a loan on the house, not the house.
Craig Evans:When the interest rates start to come down, it's going to make that a lot easier for people to start getting back into that marketplace.
Bruce Norris:So it's also mental to because you saw it reach eight, and now it's going to be let's say five and three quarters. That's pretty enticing on the buyer side, but not so much the seller side. So that's the thing you're looking at, where's, who's going to get off the sidelines? Is it the owner that has the two and a half percent mortgage or the buyer that couldn't get in at eight but now can get in at five and three quarter? I think the buyer side moves harder to a transaction than the seller does. I think the seller, you know, a lot of decisions were pretty permanent over that two year period where interest rates got lower, lower you refied over and over again. And I think there was a lot of projects that were taken on the pool or the office where you did that and you couldn't you did it at no expense monthly up, you kind of got a 15 year loan at two and a quarter percent. And your payment was you know, it didn't go up even if you put a pool in. So a lot of people made a permanent decision. Okay, we're doing this edition. And now we're staying. So that home is not available. Because of, you know, two and a half or 3% mortgage rate is really a valuable asset that no doubt about that.
Craig Evans:Give me your thoughts on as people are getting into an age of retirement, on either being a renter or a homeowner as they start moving into a retirement
Bruce Norris:I think, you know, I think I guess that would age. depend on how much of your wealth is connected to equity in a home. So let's say that you lived in California, and you thought I could move to Florida. I mean, you know, we've seen this where you have a $1.3 million home in California, that happens to be in a decent city, Costa Mesa, but it's 1200 square feet built in 1930. And so you call Craig up and say, you know what, we'll half of that by me. And you end up with, you know, a 2500 square foot house with a little water behind you on a canal and have a whole bunch left over that's very enticing. Why Florida attracts all these people. But you could also see this scenario where somebody says, Okay, I'm using this tax free game, and it's going to be my retirement. So I'm going to find some place to rent. You could also see somebody making that decision. And maybe they go into like a Leesburg area where they rent something, but they have all these goodies with it. You know, you got all the crowds to go dancing with every night and on and on. That you could see somebody making a decision. Okay, I maybe I got all the goodies out of homeownership, that there was. And now I'm just going to rent because I've got this pile of money. And I'm just going to leave that because that feels pretty secure. So I can see somebody making that decision that would make sense.
Craig Evans:Well, let's jump through. The next door I want to go over with you actually comes from Yahoo Finance. So here's how the headline reads "Existing home sales sank to slowest pace in 30 years in 2023". From the article it reads, "the sales of previously occupied US homes slumped to the worst level in decades last year as elevated rates and rising home prices deadlocked affordability. Year over year, sales of previously owned homes declined by 6% and came in weaker than predicted by economists polled by Bloomberg." Existing home sales fell 1% less than last month from November to a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 3.7 million National Association Realtors, NAR said Friday, that that's where that rate fell in that mark the lowest sales activity since August of 2010, when 3.6 8 million were recorded. Some of the findings I'm looking at on that. So on an annual basis, existing home sales fell to 4.09 million, so lowest level in 30 years. And they're 19% lower than in 2022. With demand starting to pick up in 24, with rates going down. Actually, we're in a historical norm from 1971 of 7.74, so when we're actually below that needle, when we're coming into the mid 60s, we're below that historical norm now, that's an interesting thing that we pulled through. First time buyers now are struggling to get in the game, the cause of the rates still kind of coming down. But we're starting 2024, we're starting to see those bones starting to move and more first time buyers coming onto on the market. But just with what you said sellers are still kind of holding firm to their pricing, and a lot of sellers on retail stuff on their resale product or their homes that they own. They're not wanting to get off of them because of what they've got them. So what we're seeing is, is creating a supply and demand imbalance it's kind of carrying forward into this year. So my question to you out of what we read from from Yahoo, and then what what we're kind of seeing out of some of these key takeaways. So you predicted in California, that sales would be half of what they were in 2022. And it came in just about that. So I'm kind of putting you on the spot here. Where do you see sales in California and the rest of the country for 2024?
Bruce Norris:I think they'll go up because partly because of people getting off at the sidelines as buyers. But once again, it'll be landing on a small amount of inventory. I don't know that the owner is going to be enticed, unless they're going to be a cash buyer when they sell to put up a property that's got a great mortgage and exchange that for a mortgage that's got double the rate. So in what you were quoting was they kept on saying previously on Tom's so what's interesting is the builder is got a much bigger percentage of the market. And then historically, than ever, so new home sales to existing home sales naturally, usually a 15 to 85% ratio. And right now, builders are about 33% of the market, which is kind of a surprise to them. Because their consultants did not tell them that was coming. They told them there was going to be price. It's by and large. And well, yeah, that did not happen. And because of, you know, one of the things I did talk about the club is that, okay, let's wrap this around a foreclosed home in mass quantity becomes a motivated group of sellers, if you will, the banks that dominated the price, could Florida specifically have a group of properties that acts like that, and it doesn't happen overnight. You have a lot of people in Florida that are elderly. So you have a group of homes that will come onto the market every year due to somebody passing. But fortunately for Florida, that number of houses is dwarfed by the demand that's showing up at the boundary of Florida every day, you know, saying I need someplace to live either to buy or rent. And I don't see that changing. That's the thing about Florida is I think that that's going to be a consistent growth pattern for quite a long time. So you know, it's interesting, what do you think the attitude of the builder is, you know, you guys, you guys hang around together? What is the mood of the builder going forward for this year?
Craig Evans:So I was actually talking with a couple guys yesterday, we had a conference call with, there's three other guys on the call. And it was interesting. I'm very, very positive about this year, I believe in what's coming this year, I'm very excited. One of our other friends with a another regional builder was fairly excited as well. I've got a there's another gentleman on the call that's from a statewide builder. They're in more markets that we're at, but we actually do about the same amount of inventory each year. He's actually very, very nervous about the product, because our about this year, just because right now, they're still not moving product. Now, you know, we went through that and kind of talked about some of the strategies that we employ voice versus some of the stuff that they do, especially from a sales strategy, and also a a product delivery as far as what do we deliver to the market. So it's been interesting to see that some of the guys are thinking some of the builders are thinking 2024 is going to be fantastic. And I think some of them are thinking is going to be you know, just on the whole, our whole home, so to speak. But what's interesting of that is, you know, from for me, especially, you know, as a builder, but also as a business owner that I love. That's why I love to talk with you. And and I think why you and I get along, I love looking at data because I've got a forecast what are things go. And unfortunately, I know a lot of at least smaller, smaller regional builders that don't do a good job forecasting. They just kind of ride that wave and they build into stuff. But it's amazing some of the smaller rental operators try to forecasts more than some of the builders do because the builders are just wanting to throw product on the market and keep trying to sell they they're not interested in looking at a forecast of what's coming. They just look at the back end of what just happened.
Bruce Norris:A lot of times, you know, I've talked to John Burns, he had me debate, the top builder analyst of UBS. I think it was 2006. And it was interesting because he made a comment that as a consultant, his clients did not want to hear the truth. So you know what, so what you're experiencing in 2006 is euphoria. If you're a consultant and say this is going to crash, you got to get the heck out of all of your projects. They're gonna look at you like you have a hole in the head, because you're not telling them what they want to hear and you're not matching what they're currently experiencing. Okay, well, that's what I was happens at the top of euphoria, right? That you just think it you're just you're the greatest thing since sliced bread. That one they paid a huge price for it because it ended with a bunch of properties being foreclosed on because all the people had a chance to lie about their loans for the previous two years. So that's not the case this time. You know, so we we've had a price boom, we're at a very high percentage of income required to buy a house. But a lot of people have loans in place where their, their house payment is less than rent, that's a big safety thing for the marketplace, the new buyer is the one that's challenged. If you're in a state where a lot of cash buyers occur, that's a big help for that state. And, you know, I think the inventory that people buy, you know, you have to tone it down, if you know, if your payment has to be this, then you buy that three bedroom instead of a four, or you buy in a different city. You know, we've all been there at the beginning. And I think the builder is much more likely to understand the game of buying down rates, that's probably not in the vocabulary of the private seller very often, where the builder couldn't put that into work as a policy.
Craig Evans:Well, it's interesting, even from our side of it, we've had to take a view over the last year, year and a half and look at some of things that we need to do as a business to be continued to be viable and profitable to continue to not just exist but continue to grow. And we've had to look at, you know, because of what's happening with the rates are what do I need to develop and create as a product that the consumers want? But that now starts to fit the mold?
Bruce Norris:What's your sense of the urgency to be a buyer or an owner versus a renter?
Craig Evans:I will say this since January, the 2nd and 3rd, I believe that that were I was starting to look at, you know, are people just settling in, in the south Florida market to being renters. You know, we saw a lot of renters moving into the market. It's been very interesting, since literally January 2nd or 3rd, the the amount of calls and thing transactions that are starting to take place on the buying side are increasing dramatically. And we're seeing a lot of people move out of that waiting time period and starting to move on. I do believe it's because of the aspect of interest rates, not just the cost.
Bruce Norris:There's some recent memory of an eight mortgage and now a five and a quarters or whatever. Sounds like a bargain. And maybe we're growing far enough away from the 3% mortgage that the five is starting to feel better.
Craig Evans:Exactly, exactly. Well, let's let me jump into the next one. Because this is something that's interesting. You know, I also own DBL Capital, a private equity firm and, and with that we focus on residential, single family homes, multifamily homes, we stay out of intentionally, office space, retail, space, industrial that type of stuff. The last story that we're going to talk about today is talking about vacant office space. It comes to us from the San Diego Union Tribune, specifically in Southern California. So here's the headline “20% of Southern California offices are empty. Where are the most vacancies?” So what I'm reading through the article is this Southern California finished 2023 with enough empty office space to fill a landmark Los Angeles office tower 58 times. The five county region had 81 million square feet of vacant offices out of 398 million square feet of supply, a 20% vacancy rate. According to my trustee spreadsheet, the totality of the year, for the year in office leasing states from Cushman and Wakefield. The vacancies would fill up 58 US Bank towers, a 72 storey downtown lelling landmark with 1.4 million square feet of office space 58 times that would fill that building up. That's a massive amount of space out of that. So what I'm looking at some of the key takeaways that we took out of that you got 51 million square feet of vacant or 24% in Los Angeles, Orange County itself, there's 18 million square feet vacant 19.6%, San Diego had 10 million square feet, which is about 14 and a half percent. Inland Empire has about 2 million square feet vacant, which is about a nine and a half percent vacancy. So I'm very specific it with our fund and how I how my participation within the commercial retail industrial space, that type of thing. So my question to you is, you think that trend is going to continue? And if so, really bigger moreover, is if it does continue? What do you think they're going to do with all the space?
Bruce Norris:Well, it's probably going to continue for a really interesting reason California at the time, from the day that you get to this idea, well, I'm going to build an office building. And the day you get the permit is probably not six months. So two years ago, you could have got this bright idea that oh my gosh, look at all the demand. And now you've got your permit, and you're building into the teeth of a 20% vacant market, but you're probably going to build it anyway, a lot of that inventory comes from that, it's probably pretty new. And so when you started, it was a great idea, when you got done with it, it was a terrible one. You know, I've only bought two commercial buildings in my life. And one of them I got at a discount of 70%, the other one at 65. And what it taught me was, whoever owns that is doesn't consider it like a residence. It's not like they're attached to it, especially if it was lender owned. So you know, the lender was into it at a million dollar loan, and sold it to me for 319. And, but you know what, that was probably a good idea because you've been to our building, there was a 16,000 square foot office building behind us, that was vacant for eight years. After I bought, after I bought The Norris group building, so we sold that building for a million dollars. So it went back to what it was. So that's really interesting. It went twice, triple back to just what it was three years before I bought it. So office buildings definitely have had their run, and now they're not. And that's what happens when you start having vacant office building comps. Because if you're not filling them, that's a check, too, right? And so these lenders are going to start getting back this office space unless they can come up with some plan to say, Okay, let's, you know, let's don't worry about your loan that came due. That's another thing, commercial real estate financing isn't fixed for 30 years. So you have a lot of trillions of dollars of that, not only in home, not only in office space, but in every other type of commercial real estate, they have the term cash in refi, not cash out refi, Oh, so you want to refi we'll just bring $2 million to the table and you can get a refi. You know, that's not a sentence, usually under in California, but that's what's being said now. So that's apartment buildings and every other type of commercial real estate, when that financing comes due, these lenders are more conservative, and the value is not not where it was.
Craig Evans:Well, so when you're talking about that much vacant office space, and we've got housing shortages, even in California with everything that's going on there, do you see that people will start to look to repurpose some of the space?
Bruce Norris:You know, that's definitely out of my league. But is that economically feasible to do? Because I mean, construction for office building is going to be way different than the structure of a residence. So I don't know how you take that on, you know, especially with California, you could think that was a great idea. And 10 years from now, you don't even have a permit to do it. That's no joke. Where you know, gentleman name Al, right?
Craig Evans:Yes. Yeah.
Bruce Norris:Al just out just had a piece of land that he was getting prating building lots. And 19 years later, he got to sell it. It was approved. 19 years later.
Craig Evans:He told that story that was that blew my mind. So yeah, I'm just I'm just looking at all of that space that's coming in and obviously with things that are happening in our economy, and especially in the workforce of you know, there's so many people that want to work at home, they want to be remote. And you know, there's big debates about that now, whether it's good, bad, indifferent, and people forward against it. And I'm not trying to turn this into that. But the reality is, it is creating massive amount of vacancies in office space.
Bruce Norris:Well, you know, what you said is important, I think you have a, you kind of have a relationship driven business. I've watched you pick up the phone and talk to the head decision maker multiple times, where you got an answer within 60 seconds that will take most people two months to go through the whole process. So I think the answer to your question is there's got to be somebody at the top of the decision making process. That was say, we wouldn't normally do this, but since you're doing this for first time owners, that they will go from a renter to get to own the space. Maybe there's some rules that they'll bend to make that happen. That would kind of make sense to me.
Craig Evans:Right.
Bruce Norris:Because, okay, well so what's the future we look at this vacant building like it served for eight years, or you get to repurpose it and have families live there. And that's functional, that to me, that makes a better sense. Wouldn't you know, again, you know, the the standards to build an office building? As far as spec? Wouldn't that be stronger than a residence or not?
Craig Evans:Oh, no, absolutely. Once you do to build in, regardless of whether it's multifamily or not, but in it, especially once you start getting into office space, the type of structure that you got to put in everything that happens there is completely different than what's taking place, even in your typical multifamily apartment or your single family home, that type of stuff.
Bruce Norris:It's beef here, right?
Craig Evans:It is. Absolutely.
Bruce Norris:Okay. So I mean, so if you had to say, Okay, we're going to move some walls around and convert windows to walls and all that, that would still be supported by a structure that's way stronger than any residence would ever be?
Craig Evans:Correct.
Bruce Norris:So you, so you just have to have the city on board and say, You know what, that's a really good idea. We'll work with you. And that probably is what will happen, I think there'll be some people that are favored to pull that off, or the city trusts them, they know them and say, let's go, you know, let's, let's roll. Let's get this done.
Craig Evans:Well, it'll be anxious to see I know, there's a building in Atlanta, that a friend of mine is trying to work with to try to get rezoned to allow that because it's a large office space. And he's trying to get it rezoned to be able to turn that into multifamily, and turn that into apartments. Now, that would be nice high in high school, I get it, it's not, that's not changing the affordability factor of what's happening in that market. But it definitely would take a building that is sitting with just millions of square feet of space, that is not being rented by anyone, and starting to put, you know, redo that and put tenants in that and whether they're renting, whether they're selling whatever structure he decides to do with that, it starts to put people in that to where that building is now being used compared to sitting there and starting to dilapidated, deteriorate and just become an unusable eyesore within the city.
Bruce Norris:Well, I think that that decision is going to happen, apparently all over the place when you have 20 to 25% vacant office buildings. And probably the demand for that is not going to increase. Since remote work is kind of caught on, that's probably more likely to stay vacant for longer.
Craig Evans:Well, it'll be interesting. We interviewed John Sebree, the CEO of CAR California Association of Realtors, a week or so ago and he was talking about that they had prediction based off their stats that they were looking at, I believe it was a 25 or 27% increase in sales volume for 2024 for the state of California. And I've been thinking about that interview. And in that talk that we had we had a great conversation and thinking about that in the relationship of, you know, how are they going to see 25% increase again, if so many people are sitting on the sidelines not wanting to sell their houses...
Bruce Norris:...and at the California build or anything.
Craig Evans:And you can't build anything. So how are they going to see an increase of 25% in it?
Bruce Norris:Well, I think what's interesting about that statement is I think he's saying something that's factual that won't occur. There's demand enough to have a 20% increase in sales. Those people land on too few properties and have to pay more for them probably.
Craig Evans:Right.
Bruce Norris:But I but I don't know that you're going to have the accumulative sales that could have happened, because you just don't have anything for sale. You know, you just don't have a motivated group of sellers. So by the way, a typical a really good year in California is for 50,000 plus in sales. I think we're now at about 220. So 20% increase, and 20% increase would be like a 260 year.
Craig Evans:Right. So you're still well below you're still....
Bruce Norris:Yeah, way, way, way below. So wait, sometimes those percentages are a little misleading your skill stinks. Means that as an industry, you're 50% unemployed.
Craig Evans:Right.
Bruce Norris:That's, yeah, that's kind of an amazing statement.
Joey Romero:We're not gonna have a debate at I Survived Real Estate I might put a boxing ring up there for Bruce and John.
Craig Evans:Well, let's, before we start tapping out here, Bruce, I want Joey to jump in if you can, and Joey if you can jump in and just talk about all the great stuffs coming up with The Norris group and what we've got coming.
Joey Romero:All right. So obviously, well, you know, if you're looking for funding for your fix and flip, you know, you want to go ahead and call Craig Hill in our office, or just go on our website and fill out an application. We do have some events coming up this year, June 8, so save the date. I'm not going to tell you a little more than that. And obviously, I Survived Real estate October 25. I know it's way in the future, but like, look at what's lining up, you're gonna be able to ask John Sebree "Hey, in January, you predicted 20% increase in sales. Here's where we're at." And then the last thing I'll talk about is you can still, you can catch Bruce presenting to Prosperity through Real Estate on February 13 via zoom so go to our website the Norris group.com for all the information.
Craig Evans:Very good. Joey I want to remind you remember we've got our California Lending but we're also remember we've got our Florida product now as well. So we've got loans for Florida as well.
Joey Romero:Did I forget that or did I make you say it?
Craig Evans:Thanks for being here today, everybody. Thanks for listening. We'll look forward to seeing you next time. Everybody. Have a great day. Bye bye.
Narrator:For more information on hard money loans, trust deed investing, and upcoming events with The Norris group. Check out thenorrisgroup.com. For more information on passive investing through the DBL Capital Real Estate Investment Fund, please visit dblapital.com.
Joey Romero:The Norris group originates and services loans in California and Florida under California DRE license 01219911. Florida mortgage lender license 1577 and NMLS license 1623669. For more information on hard money lending go to thenorrisgroup.com and click the hard money tab.