Awakened Anesthetist

[PROCESS] Walking Through the Fire with author Kate Novinc, CAA

• Mary Jeanne, Certified Anesthesiologist Assistant • Season 5 • Episode 79

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In this episode, we trace Kate’s path from engineering to CAA, the messy middle of finding her voice, and the work of turning loss into a children's book about anesthesia. Along the way, we unpack her New Mexico CAA advocacy journey and what it means to live by design. Hear Kate's CAA story and be expanded in this Season 5 PROCESS episode.

and a HUGE Thank YOU to our Season 5 PROCESS sponsor, Harmony Anesthesia Staffing.

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SPEAKER_00:

I'm honored to introduce our season five flagship sponsor, Harmony Anesthesia Staffing, a locums company founded by CAAs and for CAAs. Like this podcast, Harmony is rooted in the belief that our work and our lives are most fulfilling when they align with our values. Harmony exists to help CAAs shape careers that truly support the life you want to live. A life by design, not default. Throughout season five, you'll get to know Harmony more deeply, their origin story, their growth, the CAAs behind the name, and what it's really like to work with them. I think you'll find their vision and mission resonate with the same themes we explore here on Awakened Anesthetist and in this process series. And knowing that, let's step into this expansive process episode. Welcome to the Awakened Anesthetist Podcast, the first podcast to highlight the CAA experience. I'm your host, Mary Jean, and I've been a certified anesthesiologist assistant for close to two decades. Throughout my journey and struggles, I've searched for guidance that includes my unique perspective as a CAA. At one of my lowest points, I decided to turn my passion for storytelling and my belief that the CAA profession is uniquely able to create a life by design into a podcast. If you are a practicing CAA, current AA student, or someone who hopes to be one, I encourage you to stick around and experience the power of being in a community filled with voices who sound like yours, sharing experiences you never believed possible. I know you will find yourself here at the Awakened Anesthetist Podcast. Welcome in. Hello to all my fellow CAAs, AA students, and those dreaming of becoming one. I'm your host, Mary Jean, and this is Awakened Anesthetist Season 5. Welcome to our process interview series where we go behind the title of Certified Anesthesiologist Assistant to discover the truth of what it takes to build a life with meaning and integrity as a CAA. These episodes expand our understanding of what a CAA can be and do, and they move us closer to living by design, not by default. Sometimes a guest finds this podcast at just the right moment, and sometimes it takes a couple years. And now I know without a doubt that Kate's story is meant to be shared right here and right now. I had met Kate two quad days ago in Orlando, Florida, and we bonded over our shared out-of-the-OR interests, and I wrote down her name as a potential podcast guest then. And then life happened. So when we reconnected just before Quad A 2025, and she mentioned she was on the verge of releasing her first children's book, I knew this was the right time to bring her on. Kate is a CAA, a curriculum builder, a lifelong learner, and someone who has turned her grief into purpose. She's the assistant didactic program director at the University of New Mexico's MSA program and a practicing CAA who has helped shape the evolution of AAs in the Southwest. In this conversation, Kate shares what it means to walk through the fire. From divorce to advocacy to the recent loss of her mother, Kate emerges more grounded, more intentional, and more in love with the power of education than ever before. It is my honor to welcome Kate Novens to the Awakened Anestis podcast. Okay. Well, Miss Kate Novens, tell us how a CAA, a practicing CAA, gets their first children's book on a New York Times billboard.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I thoroughly appreciate you highlighting my book, which you can see in the background. And it's definitely a labor of love over the past year, almost a love letter to my mom who taught me the love of reading. And I was very grateful for the opportunity because the book company that I was working with called Digital Book Labs. And they helped me with all the publishing, helped on the illustrations to kind of bring my images to life. They were the ones that actually knew of the billboard and had a connection based upon how my book was worded and who they thought would like it. So they're the ones that helped me compile the uh video trailer and then get it on a billboard, which my husband's son and I had a travel to see. So I was very grateful for the opportunity to kind of see my vision turn into reality and see it up on a billboard, especially with my son who saw it and recognized my picture. But very special memory.

SPEAKER_00:

I love that. Yeah, we'll share in the show notes because you posted on Instagram, which is how I knew that. I was like, wait a minute, she's on a billboard, folks. I was like, what? I need to know more. And I knew we were having this conversation. So I I'm very interested as a CAA content creator and entrepreneur. I'm very tapped into those CAAs who are doing something different outside of the operating room. And I love to hear sort of the messy middle of all of it. Like being on a New York Times billboard is kind of the amazing end and having your book published. But when did that first idea of having your name on a children's book come to be? And like why writing, why children's books?

SPEAKER_01:

Wonderful question. So I actually spoke about it with my mom. Um, I say two people were the ones that I share the idea with. My mom and then uh Cassie Langles, who was our program director and one of my dear friends. And years ago, when I had my first son, I remember just read learning the love of reading children's books. Like I read a lot of Dr. Seuss, so you can see that whimsy in how I speak, especially the one, oh, the places you'll go. And I just I love books, and it really teaches me how to see. Kind of my mom always said, when you read it in a book, you can imagine it. And what you imagine is so much more brilliant than in a movie. So I always wanted to one day write a book, and then I think having a son and just conversations off the cuff with like people that I have around me that inspire me and motivate me, I was like, I can do that. I have a story to teach, and especially around anesthesia, because kids are so frightened, they don't know what to expect. And I do more and more pediatric anesthesia here just over the years, it's found me. And if a child, and this is kind of the message that I can empower a child through education so they understand, but also not making them as afraid of healthcare workers and the procedure. So just kind of, I'd say a myriad of experiences, and I definitely like being a trailblazer and thinking outside of the box. So when I saw an open in opening in the market and something that I don't think a CAA has written a book, and I was like, hey, I can I I'll be the one to do that. Um I like being given a challenge, and I think it really pushed me to want to do that because it found me. And when you do something that is authentic and that, I'd say that entrepreneurial spirit that I have now, especially with my everything my mom taught me and her not being here, it's a good gusto and a good push to want to finally do something and put it to kind of put pen to paper and write down something you had been thinking of.

SPEAKER_00:

I love everything you just said. I wanted to highlight a couple of things for people who are listening and maybe have their own little seedling of an idea or hey, this inkling keeps, you know, niggling at me. And maybe one day is that you had said you let people who believe in you sort of speak into you and tell you that it's possible and that you should, you know, pursue this dream like you can do it, and being around people who have also done their own big thing, like all of that changes your mindset to think, okay, well, if they can do it, I can do it. That's one of the main messages of this podcast is like, here's Kate Novens, who's written a children's book. Do you have something that you want to do? Like you can do this too. And then I just love hearing that it's not something that happens overnight. Like these are things that we see on Instagram, you know, in the 11th hour, but you've been thinking about and building towards and working towards little by little. So let's get into the little by little, like before you were even a CAA. Take us back to your childhood, your upbringing, maybe who you were as a kid or experiences that you feel like really shaped you so we can kind of get to know you a little better.

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely. So I grew up in Cleveland, Ohio, um, very suburbia, Midwest. But I grew up with two parents who were very um, very headstrong, prided themselves in education, but prided themselves on teaching me kind of the learning lessons of life. Kind of what do you really need to know to have EQ, IQ, but really how to take advantage of life. So I remember being a total tomboy growing up. I played a lot of sports. Um, I played as much as all the guys could play. And my mom definitely taught me that tenacity to kind of want to keep up but be exploring and adventurous. So a lot of the memories were outside, kind of my girlfriend and I would collect rocks in our backyard and put them in purses, like very much a tomboy experience. Um, but I was an only child, so I grew up kind of quicker. Um, but my parents wanted to teach me how to live life. So we would go out to dinner, learn the love of math from them. That was kind of the language that we spoke. Um, in fact, if I didn't do engineering, I probably would have done math. So they taught me the love of numbers, love of science, but love of asking questions. So a lot of my upbringing was being empowered to ask questions, step outside the normal box, kind of create my own life. And that's why I remember the Dr. Seuss book, All the Places You'll Go. My mom never wanted me to be reliant. She wanted me to be empowered to be my own person, but really enjoy life. She taught me that if you want to go, you know, to Napa and go wine tasting, we'll we'll go one day. So we did a girl's trip to Napa and went wine tasting. We did a mom and daughter trip to South Africa. We went and explored. She saw her baby elephant and I saw my flying shark. So she taught me kind of love of enjoying your life and really living your life. But it's it's wonderful lessons that I have for the rest of my life.

SPEAKER_00:

She sounds amazing. I was really lucky for the by the way I have. Wow. And you had said briefly that you would have gone into math, if not engineering, which then um lets us know that you lived in one of the hubs for CAAs and you did not go to CAA school right out of undergrad. So give us that sequence. When did you first find out about the CA profession? When did you first hear about it?

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely. So my background was my parents were both engineers. I did naval architecture, marine engineering, and I moved uh from Michigan at graduation. I moved to California. So worked in a shipyard, did have had a very different trajectory. Even though I grew up in Cleveland, I had never heard of the program, had never heard of the profession. And not until I ended up going back to Cleveland after I lived in um Southern California for a little bit, um, did my post back pre-med stuff there, because that's when I went into being like, okay, medicine is the right path. But I think my parents were a little bit worried about the long path to get there. So I was following the family footsteps of engineering, which an engineering degree, you can open up many doors with that. And that was one thing my mom taught me. So once I had my degree, worked a little bit, it wasn't the right fit, I knew medicine was always my calling. And what ended up happening was I had volunteered in uh Santa Monica in the like a volunteer internship program you would apply for. But I worked in various parts of the hospital and found that I loved anesthesia. When I observed in OB anesthesiologist, it was so technical, which was engineering and the numbers and all the calculations, but I liked the, you know, you never knew what was going to happen, the continual challenge, the personal kind of pull that helped me. It was all of the things combined. So I was like, well, I guess I gotta go to med school. I wish I would have known earlier. But in that moment, I moved back to Cleveland. And when we moved back to Cleveland, my ex-husband and myself at the time, it was nice because we're able to spend time with my parents. But that's when I realized that the CAA profession existed. After working some, I'd say regular jobs. I worked as a uh EMT. Uh I drove ambulances, I worked as a quality assurance auditor of a Benvenue uh pharmaceutical filling line that actually used to make propofol. And when I was there, I made Vecuronium. So I did different things. I mean, I worked at a sandwich shop. I did all of this as I was trying to apply to medical school. So I was kind of working my way up. And then how I found out about the CAA profession was one night I was taking an MCAT review class and I drove all the way into the city. Ironically, it was at CACE. So I was actually taking an MCAT class at CACE, which is where I ended up going to school, and class was canceled, and I was rewarded by another girl and I just showed up and we said, We're here, let's grab a cup of coffee. And she told me about the MSA program. No, and she and I was looking at anesthesia, I was from Cleveland, I had moved all these things, had a lot of yes, and then when she told me about it, part part of me honestly was like, that sounds too good to be true. I didn't really believe it at first. And I went home, I slowly did a little bit more research, you know, I was taught to ask questions, and when I looked into it more and more, I was like, this sounds too good to be true. So I scheduled a shadowing day and I shadowed actually uh Michael Patrick, who I remember going on to be one of my instructors, one of my favorite instructors at Case. And I shadowed him um ironically up in the pediatric ORs. And the moment I saw what he did during the day, because that was the thing in engineering, I love the learning, I love all the stuff. But when I got out in the field, it just didn't fit. And I wish I would have known that sooner. So if I saw the day-to-day, that's why when I was helping us set up the advisement services of our program, I really highlight shadowing because that's when you know if it's this is gonna work or this is not. Yes, it's not right for everyone. And the moment I saw, I was like, I can do this. I fell instantly in love with it. And at that moment, it was like, okay, this was all like you said, meant to be up until this point. I just had to open my eyes and be a little bit more cognizant of what was happening around me.

SPEAKER_00:

I am gonna be that person who asked you how old you were when this all happened, because I think there's a lot of pre-AAs out there who are coming now from a different profession. And so would you mind sharing how old you were when you got into AA school?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, absolutely. So I was born in 84 and I started in 2012. Got it. We'll let people do the math. There you go.

SPEAKER_00:

So uh I was born in 84 as well. Awaken and S's community. I'm jumping in here real quick to share something that hits really close to home. Our season five sponsor, Harmony Anesthesia Staffing. When Harmony started, it was just a few CAAs who wanted what most of us want. Certainly I wanted more balance, more respect, and more say in how we work. What's so cool is how they've grown, not by chasing contracts or scaling quickly, but by earning trust over time. Almost all of Harmony's growth has come through word of mouth from other CIAs who've had great experiences working with them. And honestly, that says a lot. It's proof that growth doesn't mean losing your values. That's something I'm really inspired by, is I'm building my own mission-driven work in this CAA space. Harmony continues to be clinician-founded and clinician-led with the same goal they started with, to give CAAs more opportunity, more flexibility, and more transparency in how we design our careers. So if you're craving a little more control in your work life and don't want to leave the profession you love, Harmony might be the right choice for you. You can grab a free 15-minute consultation call with one of Harmony's founding CAAs through the link in the show notes. It's an easy, no pressure way to explore what's possible when your work and your values are actually in harmony. And now back to the episode. So, okay, so you got into AA school right away. Did it take a couple times? Did you know for sure I wanted to go to Cleveland MSA program?

SPEAKER_01:

Great question. So I was I was living in Cleveland at the time. It was nice because my parents were in Cleveland. So I was able to see them, spend time with them, and I had jobs there. So I was able to at least sustain myself for the time being, but spend quality time with my parents when I was in California, I didn't have. So I thought about primarily staying a case and going to um case Cleveland. Um, but I will say my dad, my dad is a tough cookie. He's like 6'5, 6'6, and Russian, and he he says little, but he has high expectations. But he the whole time was like, oh, you're not gonna get in a case. And he, I don't know if he was trying to like give me realistic expectations, but he grew up in Cleveland and like going a case even in Cleveland was like a big deal. Yeah. So he secretly, I think, wanted me to. He just didn't want to get his hopes up. So that's where I wanted to stay. I had a good support system, but I applied um elsewhere. So I applied to multiple different schools, and at the time there wasn't as many as there are now. So I applied to UMKC. I no, no, I didn't because they were a different newer program. I think Emory, South, Nova, Case, I think those were the ones that I applied to based on what was open at the time. And um, I got acceptances multiple places, but I got into Case Cleveland on the first round, and I was very grateful. Um, and I was actually working, I remember ironically, at the same job. So that girl that told me about the AA profession when we ran an MCAT review class years later, we were both working at Benvenue, which was a pharmaceutical company. She was in the microbiology lab. I was in the quality assurance area. So we randomly ran into each other and found out we were both in the process of applying. And I if I bless her heart, I felt so bad. I think I got in and she didn't. And I felt so bad. I felt so bad because she told me about the profession. So I I hope she got in later on because I haven't seen her since. But it's um ironic how kind of in life you have these weird connections and how things just happen. So yeah, I was very grateful I was able to stay at Cleveland and end up learning from Michael Patrick, who I shadowed with. And but yes, I have a case Cleveland grad.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay. And how was being a curious question asker, how did that serve you in AA school? Was AA school like a breeze for you? Was it horrible and it was like super overwhelming? Like, give us a little behind the scenes.

SPEAKER_01:

Great question. So when I was in AA school, it was challenging. I mean, it definitely changes you as a person. If you look at it not just from the science like the book smarts, you look at it from the whole taking care of a patient and then learning about yourself and going through grad school. And it's a big process, it's a big transition. And when I was in AA school, asking questions, I think helped me sometimes because when I I would think of things from a very critical thinking, problem-solving fashion. I wasn't just a memorization person. It had to make logical sense. So for me, when I would learn something, I'd see it in clear, it was like didactic, simulation, clinical, and it just the constant flow made sense. And when I saw something I didn't understand, I'd ask why. So it helped me sometimes, I think, absorb the amount of knowledge that and it helped kind of with these encoding kind of these what if statements as I would kind of go through things. Um, so on one side, very helpful. On the opposite side, I will say asking questions, sometimes too many questions to be a little um glass ceiling, a little glass ceiling-ish. Because sometimes you may ask too many questions. You may get some more things that shouldn't be asked about, or some people don't, they've been doing it this way for so many years, they don't like rocking the boat. So sometimes questions got me in trouble. So I'd say maybe 60% good, 40% questionable as a good ratio.

SPEAKER_00:

You have to say more about how asking questions got you in trouble because that is such a nuance of medical education um and and learning as an AA student live in the OR with people, with CAAs who are not necessarily trained to educate other AAs, um, but it's just part of the medical education system. And as you said, sometimes you can ask questions to maybe a longtime CAA and they don't actually, they've never put into words in the last 20 years why they do it that way. And so it becomes this tense moment of you almost like testing people with questions. And I'm only saying this because I am also a curious question asker and have felt this. And it is um what's the word? I mean, it's like a catch 22. Like it's just a really hard way to learn. So can you maybe give us an example maybe from your experience now as a preceptor or of like maybe most memorable in school when asking a question, you know, was too much or went over a line. Super set.

SPEAKER_01:

I will say now that we've been doing curriculum building and I'm part of a program, I have had a lot more edu training as an educator. So what you're saying was lacking. So I got my um postmaster's educational certificate and educational leadership from UNM in the College of Education. So I took some classes on adult learning, conflict management. But more than that, we have trainings within our MSA program. And I am very proud to be part of a program that our leadership in Dr. Fortner, Dr. Langhol's, very much prides themselves on educating us on how to be educators. So we have workshops. So for instance, I just went to a feedback workshop. When you look at feedback, it's there's a way to create a safe learning environment. So I say all of this to set the structure. And when I as a student, I did not understand that. I was used to the you grid it out, like I was a female engineer, like and I came from you just grid it out, you figure it out. So I came from more of the hard knocks, tough, tough love way of having to fight it out. But now that I'm in education, I can see how beneficial it is to create a safe environment and then how you give feedback. So you validate the person, you make them feel heard. There's a certain way to structure feedback and not squelch the students or the learner's curiosity and question asking, but you want to guide it in the right way. Like I remember one time when I was in school, probably one of I don't want to say, and I won't say any names, but when I was with the preceptor, apparently I asked too many questions that they um they were a little rude and abrupt to me. Let's just say that. Um blank. Yeah. So, but things like that happen and you know you move forward. And it got me in too much trouble because I asked too many questions. And I think part of it is because as the preceptor, if you're not empowered on how to teach, you feel like the learner's questioning you. You feel like they're questioning your skills. And yes, in hindsight, I see how people take it the wrong way. They get very defensive, they um there's more work on them to do something that they're uncomfortable doing, that they already have their system in their way.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

And now in education, it's so much more about listening to the learner because usually they have a valid point, but it makes you grow as a provider to become able to explain something. So we offer opportunities that if you want to be comfortable giving the education, it makes for a better learning environment for the student. Because then the student knows that they're in a safe space. The feedback is going to come from a good place. It's not going to be a knee-jerk. How dare you ask that? It's going to be, okay, help me understand where you're coming from so we can create a good learning environment for the student. Because the question can be great. It's just, it's knowing the right place, the right context, the right person, and and feeling okay to ask it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. You're gonna get me started talking about CAA Matters, which I am going to um just ask you another question so I don't get talking about it. Okay, you've mentioned a lot about New Mexico. You're uh practicing CAA in New Mexico, and New Mexico has become a part of who you are from me knowing you and learning about the culture of New Mexico. So why don't you tell us how you got from uh AA school in Cleveland, Ohio to New Mexico when you graduated in 2014?

unknown:

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01:

So when I graduated, I had done a rotation out here, my second rotation of my second year. So third rotation of my second year. So it was pretty early on. I pushed to go back out west, which back then, based on what was open, now I hear my age, back then, um out west, I was looking at Texas, uh, New Mexico, Missouri, um, because Colorado had just opened, um, but they were only hiring practice, like experienced AAs. And that was about as far west as I could go. And because I had lived in California and I loved the lifestyle and I love the outdoors, the accessibility, I love going skiing, I just wanted to be further out west. So I did rotations and basically I had done one in St. Louis at Mercy. I was going to rotate in Houston and I had taken my rotation here. And I, from being out here, the moment I was at the hospital, it just felt like the right fit. It felt like someplace I could be myself. I could be the best version of myself I could be, I think was the best answer. And I liked the fact it was a university hospital. I liked they prided themselves on academics, on open-mindedness of trying different things, a lot of different types of anesthetics. Like I felt like I could grow as a provider. And it was that culture because I wanted to work at a hospital where I didn't have to take a lot of extra call. I hate to say the words work-life balance, but I could work a 40-hour a week job with like almost a shift schedule. But there was certain like I'd have to work some holidays, I'd have to work some other stuff, but I like that balance and the mentally stimulating part of it. But I really fell in love with the group here because the people seemed very nice. They were actually going into work in the morning, they weren't bitter and just that was my big thing. It's not every day is gonna be good, but you want to go into work and like have people that are like okay to be there, they actually enjoy being where they are. And you could just tell that it was a good group of people. They had a they enjoyed their life outside, they also enjoyed being at work, but you learned a lot. There was a lot of autonomy here, and there was just it was nice people, it reminded me of the Midwest, but I love the outwest adventures. It kind of I the line I always say is New Mexico is a very interesting place if you're braver brave enough to find out who you really are, because it really does allow you to be that person.

SPEAKER_00:

Hmm. I've heard so many good things about New Mexico. I am like intrigued. Um, one of my other friends is doing some locums out there, and she's just like, it's magical. Like it's a mystical, magical, wonderful place.

SPEAKER_01:

There's uh, I will say up in you were saying the mystical part of it. So up in Taos, I did a ski week. I did two ski weeks, but one of them when I was going through my divorce up there, and going everyday skiing on that mountain, there's a magic there. There's a mysticism, and you just feel this, you feel this empowering kind of fun, but there's also a lot of brainiac because we have, you know, Los Alamos, you have Cindy Labs. So you have this very heavy science part, but New Mexico is a state. There's a lot of um undeveloped, so it's just it's a very cool, it's a very unique place.

SPEAKER_00:

There is, there's two ways we could go here. I would love to hear more about New Mexico developing as a CAA state, and there has been a lot of battles that you guys have had to fight, and you've been on the ground floor of many of those battles. And then I would also, I know around this time you were walking through a divorce, and that was really impacting you. So I'll let you choose which one do you want to talk about first? And we're gonna get to both.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I will say instead of going with the survived, we'll do the thrive. So I will go with the uh helping to um helping to deal with the 2015 to 2023 uh shifts in the New Mexico CAA culture is my choice.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. Okay. Well, let's start there because basically when you got there, there was this big clause called the Sunset Clause that was passing and then also like being revised over those years you just mentioned the 2015 to 2023. Talk to us about your involvement in the legislative process, coming right out of school into a state that basically needed you to get on the ground floor and make a difference. Because I think that's many practicing states. Experience, especially in this new wave of all these states opening. So, like, how did that come to be and and how did that feel?

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely. And I think it is important for different states to have their story told. So the new SAAs and CAs that are coming about actually don't have to redevelop things from scratch. Like we're here to help. We've all gone through gone through our own experience. So when I came out here to New Mexico, at first, honestly, I didn't realize how drastic and dire it was because I I always kind of like was taught you donate, you get involved, but I thought I was too young just in the beginning to really start. So when they had elected a board in the beginning, 2014, I had just been here a couple months and I was like, I'm not, I'm not qualified, I shouldn't be doing it. So I didn't join in the very beginning. And then right after that was when there was a push for the um House Bill 54, I believe, yeah. That was the bill that went through and ended up getting passed, but I wasn't on the board, so I didn't have as much of a platform and a voice to contribute. And some of the decisions were being made to get that bill passed, which I give the people who passed it credit, but there were some compromises made that enacted, for example, the Sunset Clause, which was a bit of a hat trick because if another legislative bill hadn't been passed in the next 10 years, the opportunity that was granted by House Bill 54, which was to practice only at the Class A counties, which are five of the larger cities. So that was a compromise made to basically have us respect the rural areas and the practicing CRNAs, but it gave us an opportunity. But if anyone knows about the New Mexico uh landscape, it is very challenging to get a legislative endeavor passed. So giving us 10 years of a sunset for it was like, ha, here's a chance. Good luck if you good luck if this turns into anything. And some of the people who were in the leadership positions after that bill passed left our state. And I don't know if they were invested long-term in the state. It was just a short-term credit, but it made such an impression on me, my first year out, being like, I wasn't on a board. My voice didn't have a space. I could, I spoke to people, I tried my best to ask questions, but I kind of got, I'd say, shot down, which that's what it is. You know, they did what they thought was best, and I have to believe it was in the best intentions, but there were these compromises and these questions, and there was a lot of interesting things that I heard that happened, but we were left with this opportunity in 10 years, but the people who were part of passing it left. So I saw this opportunity of I felt, I'd say maybe this is a hierarchy story you see in multiple places, is when I see something that isn't being done right, or in my opinion, or I if I see a situation where someone's too afraid to do something, or if someone needs help, I feel compelled to want to step in and help and do. And when I saw all of this, I love the group that I work for here. I I love the variety of cases I do, the challenging complexity of the comorbidities. Like I was like, this is going to be my home for a very long time. And I felt invested and I felt that then qualified me to be involved. So in starting in 2017, I was an alternate delegate. I what I served as PR chair, then an alternate delegate, and then now I'm treasurer. So I kind of served in different roles over the years. And I was part of the group in 2023 that passed SB35, which basically removed the sunset clause and bumped our ratios up to be comparable to the nationwide average of four to one from three to one. And we're still had the class B county restrictions, but it took away that timeline.

SPEAKER_00:

And I just want to really drive a point home. I'm sure probably most of the CAAs in the state of New Mexico did a little something here and there for the bill. But give us a sense of um, like when you were saying the board, you were talking the about the New Mexico Academy of Anesthesiologist Assistance. It's the state component society of the Quad A, which is our national academy. And that's the group that was on the ground in the state of New Mexico, really fighting the fight to remove that sunset clause and make real change with the bill's wording so that people who are working there could stay working in the state. Give us a sense of like there's this many CAAs in the state of New Mexico, and this is how many of us were working, you know, uh hours and hours and hours every week to do that. Because I just think that's I just think it goes to show it's a few people oftentimes like working really hard. And if we can expand our thinking, thinking like, okay, if it's not just a few people, what if it's half of the CAAs? So I'm I'm talking too much, but tell me those numbers.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm nodding because I am in agreement of you. So yes, yes, and thank you for clarifying when I said the board. So our our NMAA board, because we like saying that we all work together, trying to think. So maybe myself, five, six, seven, eight. Um, so less than 10 were the were the people who that's why I say we had our main board and then we had a couple people who were very helpful to us. But I'd say less than 10 of people who were really making the day-to-day efforts. Yes. And as far as the number of AAs that are in our state, I'd say roughly 70, maybe. Okay. But you had this small fraction who was trying to be as strong for this larger faction. And I think it's a David versus Goliath uphill fight because when we are trying to pass a legislative endeavor, you have us, you have the New Mexico Society of Anesthesiologists, and then you also have the CRNA component of the anesthesia group in our state. So the legislative body is looking at all three of us as representing our profession within anesthesia to the legislature. So when they're looking at it, it's it's hard to make some of the groups comparable in size. And we try our best, and it takes a lot of follow-through. A lot of a lot of the biggest parts are just calling a legislator up and calling talking to them on the phone, or just going to their office and sending them a letter, or just making them yourself very available. That was the change that we saw was when we would look at where all of us lived and have someone reach out to their legislator, they were more willing to listen to us. When we went to not expecting them to come to our events, we went to a legislative town town hall and we just were available and said hi and asked questions. So when you put yourself outside of your little box and you're more involved in the community, uh makes a big difference from a legislative perspective.

SPEAKER_00:

So valuable for so many people to hear on different levels of their own legislative efforts. Just the fact that 10 people out of the 80 people in your state basically passed a huge bill and made all this change that's gonna affect CAAs forever for the rest of time in that state, you know? And there's so many more people now who are becoming CAAs that if we have this growing ability, if we're not scared, if it doesn't seem completely outside the box to go speak to your legislator, because in AA school, you've been exposed to it as part of what it means to be an AA. Think of what we could do. Like I just think that's really inspiring and super cool that um the UNMAA program is doing that. So kudos to you guys. Okay, let's shift gears a little bit because I could talk about that for a very long time. And actually, I will link in the show notes now that I'm thinking about it, the episode I did two seasons ago with Lindsay Diaz when that bill was just passing, so that you guys can go back and listen. We explained the legislative process there, which that conversation with Lindsay was really me learning in real time, the state legislative process. So this is not something that everyone's gonna um, you know, if you don't know this, if you don't know this language, if this is all new to you, you're not alone. And there's still time to learn and to make a difference um in whatever way you're wanting. So, okay, when we were speaking in your discovery call, um, which are the calls we do to kind of uh for me to get to know you and sort of set up the storyboard of sharing your experiences as CAA, you said this phrase um that you really felt like you walked through the fire of life and kind of came out the other side. And I'm just curious, um, me saying that back to you, like what resonates about it and what experiences really stick out when I say um when and how have you walked through the fire?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, you can see me nodding and I'm remembering it's like, oh, yeah, I want to. So it I'd say it's a it's a good phrase to describe me because I am definitely a headstrong, stubborn individual where a lot of times I have to find stuff out my own way, my own accord, and come to my own resolution. That's part of that asking questions bit. Um, but it has created a life where I think I make things a little harder at times because I am a perfectionist. I do try different things. That's another thing my mom taught me like be willing to try life, experience life. Like you're gonna learn more when you when things don't work out than when things work out. Um, they always say a CV of all your failures is almost as interesting as a CV of all your successes. So I've never I've never been afraid to try different things, but by doing that, sometimes I've walked down, like I keep quoting Dr. Seuss books, but you know, you sometimes walk down, you know, those dark roads that you shouldn't be, but I'm curious. I want to figure it out. And so it's led me to kind of, I'd say, walk through the fire and some of the hard times. And we've kind of talked about my um my divorce and how that greatly shaped me. I think AA school was something that opened up my eyes for independence and personal choice and owning my own voice. It made me become stronger, but it made me outgrow my marriage. And looking at that as if it was a failure instead of just an experience was very hard on me. But looking at it, I had married someone who was 24 years older than me. And looking back, we were just the two different places in life. I met them when I was 22 years old, and I am a completely different person now at 40. So it was part of my growing phases. But by doing that, I was I never settled for anything. I always was taught to kind of go out and search the world, find the world. That's how I've been in my life adventures to go from engineering to finding out that wasn't the right fit for me. But did I just accept it and say, well, I'm just gonna be an engineer for the rest of my life? Because that's, you know, that's what I was trained to do. I was like, no, I want to be happy. I want to find my happiness. But walking through the fire is having an engineering degree, but still working a menial job as I was transitioning. Um, it wasn't too fun, I'd say, making sandwiches when I had a bachelor's degree. But you know what? I did it and I was willing to do it because I knew what I was working towards. So I think I never really took the cush side. I walked through the fire by always wanting to not really make the harder decision, but make the one that's going to make me grow more eventually. But it could be hard in the short term. So it was kind of like getting into AA school. But then when I graduated, I came, I moved out to New Mexico, but that's when my marriage was not doing too well. And we ended up getting separated. And it was ironically when that happened, I grew so much as a person because being an AA, I had found that voice to be financially independent, to take care of myself. But also, I going through a divorce is very hard. You you kind of hang out with some people that are not the best people, that are not in friendships for the right intentions. And I was around some people that were not good influences. Like we said before, is now I want to be around people that inspire me and make me a better version of myself. Versus at some point I was with people because I didn't have as high a standards for myself. Cause when you're going through a divorce, you just it's it's a very challenging thing. Kind of like you feel like it's a death, like you're mourning the death of that person who you were, who you're growing into. And I ended up seeing some of the, I'd say, health struggles that some of my patients dealt with. Um, for instance, here in New Mexico, we have a very high patient population for chronic pain. Um, substance use disorder was actually a very big issue. So a lot of my learning is because I see people around me or I grapple with trying to understand things. So I kind of go through the fire because I make things harder, but it's because I want to, in the end, come out a stronger person. But sometimes choosing the road that's not the easy path, you learn more about yourself as you go through the path. I could have just been in an AA and not have gotten involved with any of the legislative stuff. I could have not been the inaugural chief and done that for two years to lay the foundation for that, because being middle management is rough. It's rough. You kind of deal with pushback from people who are years beyond you or new people. Like, but I'm willing to, if I know the long-term end goal of what I'm going towards is worth it, is meaningful, I'm able to deal with the short-term turmoil. So sorry for the long explanation, but I love it. Going through the fire is really it's being willing to take the less waffle, darker, maybe harder path, but knowing my investment is worth it in the long haul.

SPEAKER_00:

Mm-hmm. Do you feel like you're on the other side of that fire now? Like, does this feel like a more settled time, or you're kind of fully expecting that there's gonna be something else that you're called to do? Um, or was the book that?

SPEAKER_01:

You know, I never know what the future holds. Um, but I will say kind of the past year and overcoming the loss of my mom last summer very suddenly from cancer, and doing curriculum building this past year and getting pregnant again, which was a dream because I never thought I'd have a second child. There's been so many things this past year that has shaped me as a person and made me aware that I'm in a good, healthy, stable spot. I am very happy, my husband and I are very happy together. We're having another son, we're building an extension in the house. Even though I've lost my mom, I'm so grateful for the life I have. And professionally, I've been able to accomplish so many things as far as helping to build a program and write the book that was from my heart to my mom. Like, I don't, I feel much more settled in a piece. So it's kind of like I I right now don't have a fire to fight, but because I have overcome the ones that the hand that was dealt to me. I've kind of risen to the occasion because I was taught perseverance. But do I know what fire is going to be in the road ahead of me? I have no idea. Um but I do know for my two sons, it is very important to me to leave a legacy for them that they they have the gut, they have the you know, the moxie. Um of like I want my son to to not to understand that you always have to stand up for yourself and you have to be a strong man by understanding things can always go right, but it's kind of having that balance of still having gusto to show them, which that's why I keep laughing. Like, I might go back to school in you know 10 years, you know. But I do I know it's gonna be happening around me? No. Do I, you know, but I'm always, I think, willing to ask the question, willing to say something if it's not an easy topic, but I'm willing to say something if I know it's the right thing to do, to be that trio blazer, to be that that person that's gonna push something.

SPEAKER_00:

And you feel like you have that resilience, that fortitude. What was your mom's name? What is your mom's name? Nancy. Nancy, from Nancy. Like, do you feel like that's really from her? The idea that um I'm I invite a challenge and I know I can handle it, and I know I'm gonna um be the person to stand up and say, like, no, I can tackle that.

SPEAKER_01:

I would say a huge portion of who the person that I the person that I am today is because of my mom. Yeah. She was a very, very special person. And I know everyone says that, but she would walk in a room and she would make everyone smile, but she would make everyone a better person. So she graduated with her bachelor's and her master's in physics from Miami University in Ohio, because we're Ohio people. But she was the second woman to get her uh master's in physics degree, and this was in the late 60s, early 70s. Early 70s, yeah, because she was born in 51. My mom was the one that had taught me the tenacity, but just taught me the love of life, and just the combination of those two is it's a beautiful thing. Because she taught me how to persevere, how if things don't go right. Um, I know the one story that always goes back to um after her brother, my uncle, was very, very dear to us. And after he passed away suddenly, kind of like my mom, my mom at first had a hard time, but then she's just like, well, we just have to move forward because that's who we are as people, and that's what he would want me to do. And she just has this this brilliance about she, my mom would like my mom would go from trading stocks to baking a cake. She just was this bit of a renaissance woman that I always felt like I was trying to live up to be. Except I just realized the beauty wasn't just being around her, just being with her. And she taught me so much about life. And I'm so beyond grateful that I had her. And that's why with the book and writing that, she's the one that when I was building a curriculum and I'm like, I don't know what to do. And she's like, Well, when I was teaching physics, she's like, and she always had something to say and some story. And she was like, Kate, she's like, You can do it. And she's like, I'm just gonna, what am I memorized? She's like, I'm just gonna sit here with you. You can do it. I know you can.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh my gosh, Nancy. So the right thing to say there.

SPEAKER_01:

She taught me just how so much in life, and it's just when something's that good, you just want more of it. Yeah, and I know that, and I was looking through all your questions, like I know she would look at me if I could ask her one thing, like, mom, is everything okay? And she'd be like, Yeah. She's like, I'm with your uncle, and we're watching over you. And don't she's like, Don't cry about me. She's like, You take all the love that you have for me, and you love your boys, you love your family, and you just move forward. And I'm just I'm trying the best I can to just make her proud and move forward.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Well, you're doing an amazing job. I'm super, super proud of you. Yeah. Well, let's honor Nancy a little bit more while you share about your first children's book.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

Called Anesthesia Dreamland. Hold it up so we can see and tell us how this book came to be.

SPEAKER_01:

So you can kind of see the title. You can see Night Night Sweet Child Safe Blast Off to Anesthesia Dreamland. And you can see she has her little A superhero outfit on. I'd say in my dedication, it's so the rubies in my life. So I have my mom and my son. You can kind of see it's a bit of a heart there. There he's flying. So the book came about from from enjoying teaching anesthesia, enjoying pure education. And when you have a child and you read them a book, it is just their eyes are open and they just look at the pictures. And when I when I read through all of this, um, and I even made like a little poem in the front page. So anesthesia, what's your freesia? You cause me amnesia. Um, my rocket ship ride, you are my safe guide to dreamland and back with pride. And I just the the literary it it was cathartic for me to write because of what my mom and I talked about. And that was what in the end, when I was when I was spending time with her, you know, we talk about plans and we were talking about what I want to do. And when I talked about writing a book, it was something that I had I had already created a story in my head, I'd want to say a year before that. Um, because I had thought about it, I had read to my son, and then when she passed last summer, I was like, oh, I'm I'm I'm gonna do this. I promised her this is one of the things that I'm gonna do. And then I the beauty, the beautiful thing was I got pregnant with my son the beginning of December, and I truly believe it was a gift for my mom from beyond. And when I had that gift, I was like, okay, I have to I have to write that book down. So I I think I wrote it down within like two weeks, but it basically is going through like an inhalational induction for a child and how they go to like anesthesia dreamland, but it kind of goes through the pre-op, um, inter-op pacu, so the perioperative environment. And some of the stories that I do are uh part of it. So, like for example, you can see the like the bag, the green reservoir bag here. Uh huh. Um, that is what I draw on the bag to kind of help calm a child so they're blowing a balloon up. So a lot of the sayings in here um are totally what I do. And even you can kind of see my anesthesia machine now that I teach engineering. So I was very specific that everything had to look medically accurate. So when a child came in, they said, Oh, a mask, oh, I see this, I know what this is. Oh, you're here to help me. So you're giving them this wonderful story that they can have self-empowerment, courage, bravery. Um, but learn a little something and getting writing it out, like I honestly was so cathartic. Like I said, was everything that happened with my mom? It was just like I was meant to do this. Like it just it just came together so quickly. So it's and it's been wonderful the feedback of people even just saying, like, oh, my child liked it, or it made them, you know, ask a question or feel more comfortable. And it's it's something that I want to do as kind of a passion project for me, but also my entrepreneurial spirit a little bit that I like showing that I can do things outside of directly affiliated with being in the operating room. I think it's good to show our versatility as practitioners and as people.

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely. Uh well, I'm just really, I'm really grateful that I get to hold you up, Kate, as what it is and what it means to be a CAA. And I know people are going to want to reach out to you, buy the book. So tell us all the ways, the best ways to find the book and to reach out to you.

SPEAKER_01:

I forgot that part of it. So the biggest part is, right? Um, so this is the actual paperback version. So nice big copy. You can read it, you can actually hold. I'm old-fashioned, I like books. Um, but on both Amazon and Barnes and Noble, there is a paperback. So you can do this. You can also do an ebook if that is something you would like, and an audiobook. So I did have, so the publishing company helped set me up with a very good uh narrator, and I love her voice. It's very sing-song-y, it's very childlike. Um, but there is also an audiobook out there, and you can find links to a lot of this through the website that I created, which is CAA Hyphen Anesthesia Dreamland. As you can see, there might be more, there might be a series. So we're doing safe, safe, blast off to anesthesia dreamland. There might be something maybe with an IV induction, or I, you know, my mind just keeps going. But yeah, so CAA hyphen anesthesia dreamland. And then I also have a page on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn. So I try and make myself available because I really do want to be a resource for other people if they have questions on things.

SPEAKER_00:

I am sure there is someone listening who has a book inside of them. Um so I'm just really grateful for you sharing your story. And are you ready for your one-minute rapid fire, a true rapid fire?

SPEAKER_01:

You know, I take things as they come. That's my life learning, is don't estimate, just take it as it comes.

SPEAKER_00:

Thanks for listening to Awakened Anesthetist. If this episode resonated with you, share it with a CAA friend, an AA student in your life, or a perspective, and let them know why you loved it. It's the most important thing you can do to support this podcast and its mission. You can always find more ways to connect with me and this CAA community at awakenedanesthetist.com, including an invitation to join season five Mindful Connections. These are free virtual gatherings open to anyone in our Awakened Anesthetist community. And while you're scrolling the website, check out my trusted CAA partners who make this podcast possible with a special thank you to my season five sponsor, Harmony and Asegia staffing. Talk soon.

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Mary Jeanne Roberts, CAA

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