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Awakened Anesthetist
This podcast is for Certified Anesthesiologist Assistants, AA students, and anyone hoping to become one. As a CAA, I know how difficult it can be to find guidance that truly reflects our unique perspective. I created Awakened Anesthetist to be the supportive community of CAAs I needed on my own journey.
Every month, I feature CAA expanders in what I call my PROCESS interview series. I also create solo episodes that weave in themes of wellness, self-discovery, and mindful growth - offering insights and reflections that resonate with our high-pressure, high-responsibility lives. Through it all, you’ll discover the power you hold as a CAA to create a life by design, not by default. I know you’ll find yourself here at the Awakened Anesthetist podcast.
Awakened Anesthetist
Enneagram for CAAs ft. Dr. Jodi Jackson | Wellness Wednesday
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START HERE -> 2-part FREE Enneagram Test
Whether you are new or old to the Enneagram, I am honored to introduce you to Certified Enneagram Teacher and my personal mentor, Dr. Jodi Jackson.
CAAs, have you ever searched for wellness resources that truly understand what it means to be a Certified Anesthesiologist Assistant? You're not alone. Wellness Wednesday are candid conversations about the unique challenges and opportunities facing CAAs in their pursuit of sustainable wellbeing.
Whether you're a practicing CAA, AA student, or prospective applicant, this episode marks the beginning of a community-centered approach to wellness that finally names and validates your experience. Welcome in.
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- IEA
- The Enneagram Institute
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- In Person 2-day Workshop (KC locals)
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Welcome to the Awakened Anesthetist Podcast, the first podcast to highlight the CAA experience. I'm your host, Mary Jean, and I've been a certified anesthesiologist assistant for close to two decades. Throughout my journey and struggles, I've searched for guidance that includes my unique perspective as a CAA. At one of my lowest points, I decided to turn my passion for storytelling and my belief that the CAA profession is uniquely able to create a life by design into a podcast. If you are a practicing CAA, current AA student, or someone who hopes to be one, I encourage you to stick around and experience the power of being in a community filled with voices who sound like yours, sharing experiences never believed possible. I know you will find yourself here at the Awakened Anesthetist Podcast. Welcome in. Hello, Awakened Anesthys community. This is Mary Jean, your host. I am a 18-year now practicing certified anesthesiologist assistant. I am a longtime AA educator, really focused on emotional intelligence as the art of anesthesia. And the episode you're about to hear is with one of my mentors. She is a neonatologist, a physician here in the Kansas City area where I live. Our paths have crossed and almost crossed several times as we're both very invested in bringing mindfulness to our physician and CAA communities. We both graduated from the Mindful Practice in Medicine course training, which we talk about, I talk about a little bit in the beginning, and Dr. Jackson kind of puts a little bit of finer point on and what that is. But that's definitely where our paths initially crossed. And then because she's local and she graduated from this program that I graduated from, I reached out as I am always looking for expanders and mentors to really like bounce ideas off of and just open my eyes and heart to new ideas and things that I'm passionate about. I'm always looking for people to kind of help elevate me and what I believe is possible, hence this podcast for all of you. But our interview today is really talking about not so much that part, but the Enneagram. Dr. Jackson is a certified Enneagram teacher. And in our last meeting, she just mentioned that she has that certification. And I was like, ooh, I want to have you share that on the podcast. So this is our conversation about the Enneagram. If you are completely new to the Enneagram, um you can choose. I will, in the show notes, have a free Enneagram test, which Dr. Jackson talks more about, how to utilize that resource. But if you want to take it and then listen to this episode, you can, or you can listen to this episode and then take it at the end when you've sort of absorbed more of the perspective from Dr. Jackson on what that test, what that information is going to mean for you and to you. Um so you have free reign there. Um you can go to the show notes, take that free assessment to receive your Enneagram number. If you've heard anyone talk about, oh, I'm an Enneagram three or eight or nine, um, that's what they're talking about, and you'll get your number. And then listen to this episode or re-listen to this episode. This episode's also going to be on YouTube, and I'm just really excited to bring these conversations from my mentors to all of you. I hope you enjoy this conversation with Dr. Jody Jackson. This Wellness Wednesday is brought to you by CAA Matters, the first comprehensive wellness and professionalism curriculum designed to truly support the AA student experience. We all know AA education is streamlined to produce competent providers in a fast-paced program. Meanwhile, wellness and professionalism often get overlooked, lumped in with medical students, or addressed too late to help. CAA Matters fills this gap, centering student anesthesiologist assistance and equipping them with the tools, resources, and mindset shifts to succeed in school and build long, fulfilling careers. It's a turnkey curriculum, fully prepared, facilitated, and supported from planning to delivery. Program leaders and AA educators can learn more, read reviews from early adopters, and explore piloting CAA Matters at awakenedanest.com or by clicking the link in the show notes.
Meet Dr. Jodi Jackson
SPEAKER_00Today I am joined by Dr. Jodi Jackson, who I actually know from one area of my life, but we're here to talk about kind of a whole new area that she uh just told me she was interested in. I was like, ooh, that's what I want to talk to you about on the podcast. So um Dr. Jackson and I both graduated from the mindful practice in medicine training. Dr. Jackson um has done the advanced facilitator training, and I stopped just at the facilitator training. And in that um program, I had said, Hey, is there anyone in my area that has also gone through this program? And I was given your name. And so that is how I first emailed you and reached out and just wanted to chat about the experience in mindful practice in medicine, um, which we're not here to talk a lot about, but it's a program that is very important to you and your work and something that I was kind of dabbling in. Um, and so that's where our paths crossed. You are a neonatologist among several other titles here in the Kansas City area. Um, we also kind of ran parallel lives through the UMKC, the University of Missouri Kansas City School of Medicine, where the AA program here is housed in Kansas City. And then you worked in the MD program there in the wellness arena. So we have many things that have brought us close together, but in our one time that we've met in person, um, I went to your work. We had some coffee and met and had a conversation, and you told me that you were really into the Enneagram and actually were attending a conference. And so that is what we're here to talk about today. Um, and I'm so excited to bring your voice because the Enneogram can get a little bit kind of, I think, a bad rap. And so I'm really excited to bring it from your perspective, really the science-minded, grounded perspective. So after that long intro, hopefully everyone feels like they know why you and I are here together. I'm just really excited to have you on the Awaken Annestis podcast. Is there anything I missed, Dr. Jackson? On thanks for the intro.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we had a very lovely meeting that could have probably gone on for all day, but I think we both had to do something else.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_01Um, but let's recognize our mentors our mentors we have in common, Mick Krasner and Ron Epstein, who have started the mindful practice in medicine program in the late 90s, published in JAMA about this wonderful program, that first literature-based program showing that this teaching can help healthcare providers flourish and be more resilient and make less errors and really mitigate burnout. And we that's the the training that's our the our mentors in common, and that's what I'm teaching at the medical school. And um, so I'd like to recognize that's a huge part of of why we know each other and what we have in common. And yeah, and I've been training in Enneagram kind of alongside of that. So I was I started that training in 2011, and I started training in Enneagram about 2017. So not as long, but um but they the teachings and the wisdom of those two bodies um overlap so profoundly that I can't find myself teaching or even talking about one without bringing in the other. And at this point, I don't even know sometimes which is which, because they're both a part of my language and how I see the world and how I approach uh wellness and flourishing and in in medicine and also just in life. So I did want to share that. Like that just there's so much overlap. There's not like, oh, I'm an Energram teacher and I'm a mindfulness teacher. I'm like a teacher of consciousness and those are the two things that and a physician of twenty thirty-five years, and so that also informs how I show up. So um, you know, healthcare provider for all these years, um, neonatologist, as you said, but a huge amount of what I do is support families. So, you know, you know, yeah, I'm a critical care doctor and I do things to little babies who need help and um help them live. Um, but I'd say at least half or more of what I do is is support families through what can be the worst things ever happened in their life. And so I think being in that um space has been a big part of why I've been exploring these ways of supporting human beings in general. Yeah, I didn't anticipate saying any of that, but but that's how it all comes together. I love it for me.
SPEAKER_00I love it. That's why I love podcasting. I love kind of asking something and then like whatever comes out ends up coming out.
What The Enneagram Really Is
SPEAKER_00Tell me a little bit about how you came into the Enneagram in 2017. I was trying to remember how I first heard about the Enneagram, and I know it was on a podcast, but I can't remember why, what, or who. So tell me how that entered your world. Because this very likely will be the first time people hear about the Enneagram in my audience. So Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Well, interesting. A lot of people lately have heard of it, but and I'm glad you're interviewing me about it because what they're hearing really isn't, I think, the full opportunity of what the Enneagram has to offer. So I'm glad that you're asking. But I've noticed really actually, even the last four years that I've been teaching mindfulness, I periodically be like, Have you heard of the Enneagram to some of my students? And and now almost everybody has, and they're fascinated by it. So um, so a lot of people have heard of it and are interested in it. Um, I started, I actually just accidentally picked up a book probably before I started formally being taught, maybe 2015 or 16, read the book, thought it was really fascinating, didn't do much with it. And then um I happened upon a group at Unity, the Unity Temple on the Plaza, which is a local kind of um inviting place for for spiritual growth. And the minister there was teaching it. And I got into a community of people learning it and kind of saw the value and started getting more educated and then joined groups and online groups and then formal education. And um, it just seemed to, as I kind of just said before, fill in the gaps of some of the knowledge I I cultivated through the mindfulness work. You know, one of the things about the mindfulness work, teaching the mindfulness work is basically learning to put a space between stimulus and response. Or this figure I show is a little stick man, and there's stimulus and response, and the spaces where we have our power, where we can choose, we can't affect what comes to us when things come to us, and then what we can affect what we do with that, and then how we respond. And the mindfulness work is about kind of that space and noticing, and noticing is a huge part of the mindfulness. What the enneagram does is gives us kind of a map of how to notice. And so that that's a biggest part of the mindfulness work that I'd already been studying and doing by that point by eight or nine years. And but the Enneagram really gives us that map of what are we looking at? What are we noticing? And um what we're noticing is this kind of mantra of how we show up that may be not voluntary, that may be what we call in the enneagram language our fixation, where we're stuck. Um, and those are all Enneagram words, um, fixation stuck. Sometimes Enneagram is taught in a very spiritual sense, and people call it um our vice, our virtues and our vices, but but it can also be taught completely secularly where we just talk about where we're stuck, like how we show up. And so it just floats so beautifully because it's like, yes, a space. What do we do in that space? We notice. Enneagram's all about noticing and how to notice and the inner observer and the inner critic. And so when we start to have this map of, oh, like I've identified my type, and my type shows up like this, and I'm showing up like this every time. Is that really me or is that a place I'm stuck? And so that's what the Enneagram does for us. It's teaching our personality types, which isn't the greatest words to use to define the points, because it's not really who we are, it's where we're stuck. But when we start to see well, there's stereotypes typical ways of doing there's nine stereotypical ways of doing that. And I fit in one of those. And so this way of showing up and surviving that I thought was like paramount to me really is a fixation that other people share. And maybe it's not the only way to show up. And I mean, that's one of the greatest gifts, I think, of the Enneagram is that idea, even that there's other ways to show up or experience. Um, and and like I said in the beginning, noticing, like, oh my gosh, I'm doing that again. And I understand better how people perceive it. Um so that's kind of how the Enneagram came into it, and that's why it stuck so much, and that's why it continues to stick.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you you actually unlocked something for me as you were talking about the noticing piece because I was been thinking, like, what why am I drawn to the Enneagram? What is it about it? And that piece that it allows you to notice better. Um, and you know, of course, we have a mutual interest in mindfulness, and mindfulness like is it means a lot of things, kind of, especially when it's in the zeitgeist. And there's like a slowing down piece in order to notice, which can be part of the mindfulness process. And then it's like, okay, the Enneagram helps us notice. Then you have the space between stimulus and response. And I just had a guest
Inner Critic And Type Patterns
SPEAKER_00on um another pediatric ER physician, actually, who was talking about neuroplasticity and how in that space she wants her students to choose compassion. So she was really talking about what to do in that space and that that offering with self-compassion. And then, of course, the response, you know, how to respond and how to act compassionately was her kind of focus. So it's just, I can see how it all flows together, just exactly like you said, how one leads into the next and offers more like a window into clarity, which I think, as science-minded people, research-based, evidence-based, we want more clarity. And that's exactly you're right, why the Enneagram is so fascinating. Um, and and dare I say, to people like us, uh, and lots of other people as well. But I'm, I guess I'm I'm interested now. Maybe my audience is really familiar with the Enneagram. I found out about it just a few years ago. So um I'm suspecting this will be kind of an eye-opening conversation. And I wanted to go back just briefly because when you said inner critic, I I could hear my audience's ears perk up. Talk a little bit about how the Enneagram helps us maybe notice or name our inner critic. Like, what's the link there? Thanks.
SPEAKER_01And different types have a louder, more difficult inner critic. Every type has an inner critic, certain types, inner critic is is super busy. And then some types they call it the inner committee. So it's uh all the different, like you did this, the you know, like it's it's from all different viewpoints. Um, but all types have that. And it's really interesting how as humans we oscillate between kind of trying to support ourselves and also criticize ourselves, and a lot of the times the way that we show up is actually defense against the critic. And and we don't always know it. Like, you know, we just we feel really strongly about something and come forward um and don't realize we're actually combating this inner critic who's somehow thinks maybe we're not good enough, maybe we're an imposter, maybe we don't really know, maybe we aren't really deserving. Um, and how do we deal with that? And all the types of different ways to deal with that. Some lean into it and and some hide from it, some try to please to to quiet the critic, some self-correct to the point of being paralyzed. Um and so it's it can show up so differently, and part of the gift of knowing one's type is like recognizing that, and then saying, Oh, like when I do that, that's my inner critic. And it's not always obvious. You know, some types turn off, and so it's different. It's you know, all the types are different. Yeah, and I'm glad you brought up also um like people like us who are science-minded. Uh, one of the the other things I find so um um intriguing or kind of validating, I guess, about Enneagram. So there's all different takes of it. Like I said, there's spiritual takes and it aligns with all sorts of spiritual teachings and mathematical teachings because it's all these triangles and they line up, and people who are into pure math talk about how it's aligned with Pythagoras' theory, and it was um but there's literature from the 70s about temperament that was completely separate from Enneagram teaching or knowing or knowledge. And there's a publications talking about nine temperaments and babies, and they really align with the nine enneagram types. So one of the things that I find validating is this kind of idea of temperaments was there separate from this idea of the Enneagram. And when the Enneagram kind of found its way in the 60s and 70s in Berkeley and and um kind of that milieu of um being open to those things, and then medicine and psychologists and psychiatrists started to see, oh, it does align also with some of the things we're teaching. So depending on a person's interest and entry point, it could really mean very different things to different people. Um, you know, it's not meant to be a tool for productivity, right? It's not meant
Using Types On Healthcare Teams
SPEAKER_01to help us do better in the workplace or to get along with people better necessarily. The the initial purpose is kind of a a growth tool to see where we're stuck. It's not about pigeonholing people. In fact, one of my teachers, my main teachers, Russ Hudson, who's kind of considered the biggest name right now. He is the big textbook that he teaches on. And um, I've been learning kind of at his side for a number of years. Um, he says it's not about putting ourselves in a box, it's about seeing the box that we're stuck in and how to release it. Now we never change our type. We're never not gonna be our our type or we be kind of that's our home base. And that's good. I mean, the world needs all nine people and all nine ways of showing up, have beautiful gifts that are essential for the human experience. Um, and so it's wonderful that we have these gifts and we bring them for our of our type. And um really what I would encourage people who are interested to do is to do the the the discovery. Like we can take tests, and I gave you a um free test, uh a link to a free, it's two free tests and one. And what I like about free tests is we're not too invested in them because they're free. And so we're we're you know, we're not like, oh, I paid money for this, it must be right. And what the tests do is they'll give you the likelihood of all you'll Or and um to hold that extremely loosely. So it's not a diagnosis, it's a like it's an entry point. And to maybe start looking at the top three, I also gave you two um really nice websites, the two areas that I'm certified to teach through the institute and through narrative, um, which are different, really different teaching, but they have really nice resources. And so I encourage and also the little free test has free um free resources. So what I encourage people to do is start reading about the types, like see their entry point, it gives you a point to kind of be interested, a place to start reading and start reading. And it's the journey of reading and discovery that is the growth tool. Like just being said, you're a this doesn't help a person grow because then they're they've been, you know, pigeonholed. And so they may or may not agree with all the things, but if they just believe it, they're they're not going to grow. And so all of that is a journey because the goal isn't to neurotype, our goal is to have space and understand how we show up differently from others and how that and as important how others show up. So, like when I present, often people are like, well, just get to the whatever, I'm a five, I want to see the five. I'm like, no, you don't, because it's not just about you. And it's not, and we don't live in isolation. So even if like you I clearly identify what you are, and you're like, oh, that's exactly what I am, it doesn't help you to know that if you don't know how that's different from the others. And so I really discourage kind of diving in and just trying to define the types and pick where I am on that. Um fact, some people spend months finding their type, like to open that space up to like this might be a journey, this might take me months or weeks, months, years. Some types have no trouble, some types it's really, really obvious. So it's all needs to be held really loosely with the goal of learning discernment and compassion. And this, all these tools not to to pigeonhole us, but to allow us to open and flourish.
SPEAKER_00Such an opportunity. I mean, of course, I'm thinking about this for myself, but as I, you know, take the bird's eye view on my profession, which works in a team. Like I am part of an anesthesia care team. I will always be working with lots of personalities. I'm sure there's like particular personalities that work in a NICU, and the same can be said for an OR, and there's all of that triangulation that you have to do with personalities. How can a CAA or someone who wants to become a CAA or an AA student like start to learn how to use the Enneagram to understand that relationship that will happen every day in the OR?
SPEAKER_01That's a great question. Um, and I I'm not sure that any specific types gravitate toward any specific professions. People will do the exact same things for very different reasons. And so we don't necessarily say, oh, more doctors are this type, or more nurses are this type, or more anesthesiologists this type. I I don't think you can say that because, like I said before, it's the same behavior for very different reasons. And so we see usually a pretty even distribution of types just around, but you may see a behavior that's
First Steps To Find Your Type
SPEAKER_01more common. And that's where it gets confusing because you just assume every time you see that behavior, it means this. Um totally you know, for example, surgeons can seem very sure of themselves and sometimes aggressive. It doesn't mean they're all the aggressive enneagram type, it could be that's their the way that they are safe from fear, or that's the way that they've had to develop in order to fill a role that they thought they needed to fill, or are really protective of their inner energy. They're the type that doesn't have a lot of energy to give, so they have to have this barrier to protect themselves. So there could be all different reasons that people show up a certain way. I think as a member of a team, you know, what's the best thing is if everybody can learn it, we can have common language, but that's kind of maybe never gonna happen. So the other thing that's helpful is to know as a member of a team where I'm coming from, where I'm stuck, and what my triggers are. And like certain types are triggered by other types and and for very very specific reasons. And so when I know my type and I know what triggers me, we can say to ourselves, like, that energy feels like a whatever. And I know that triggers me in this way. And I may be assigning motivations to somebody that don't actually exist, but the first thing I need to do is modulate my response. And so if I know when people show up this way, it triggers me in in this way, then there's that stimulus and response thing. Like I can say, okay, they're coming forward with this kind of energy, and this makes me feel this way. And I know that because I've done the work, and I know when I see this kind of energy show up, this is what I do. And um, it might be I become more aggressive, or I shut down, or I'm people please, or I study more, or you know, it might be any of those things. And it might be different depending on the different energy that I see. And so that's really helpful because I know then I can notice that myself and say, okay, I know how to deal with this kind of energy because I've seen it before and I know what it does to me. So now I'm armed with the ability to not do that if I don't want to. The other thing that I can do is to start asking questions offline about why and how. You know, I noticed when we were in this case, this was what happened, and I'm just wondering what you were thinking when you said that. And if if it's an environment, hopefully it's an environment where those questions can be asked, can be that kind of curiosity, which is the mindfulness work that beginner's mind, which we don't talk about in Enneagram, so this is another overlap, but the the mindfulness work is the beginner's mind or critical curiosity. There's a whole module about moving from furious to curious. How do we move from being angry to curious? So um, using that mindfulness language and that kind of um teaching to be curious and really say, you know, give it a name, like, you know, I noticed you got impatient in this situation, and I'm just wondering what was going on for you. And being able to do that in a way that's curious and not like, hey, what the hell is wrong with you?
SPEAKER_00I just exactly yes, uh, yes.
SPEAKER_01It's not gonna, it's not what were you thinking? It's I'm interested, what were you thinking? You know, very different, same words, very different um energy. But um, if we can be open, truly open to knowing what they were thinking, where it came from, then we can know more about what their type is. And, you know, when somebody's aggressive and I'm like, I'm just wondering what's going on for you, you seem really aggressive. If they're like, you know, I was really worried because we weren't following the policy or procedure, that's you know, one, or I became afraid because I didn't know what to do, you know, or I wasn't expecting that, that's a different one. Or, you know, I felt like people weren't respecting me enough, that's a different one. Or um that we can have a better idea of at least of that person's motivations and what it means when they behave in a certain way, and then develop a little bit more compassion and also be able to respond in a way that might be more helpful. Because if we really know what the impetus for that behavior was, we can give the response that's gonna help it. How can I understand better what's underneath these behaviors from other people?
SPEAKER_00I'm having lots of bells go off because for whatever reason in my life, um as I'm kind of diving deeper into what really draws my interest and passion, I'm really drawn to defining and teaching how to teach this thing in my world that we call the art of anesthesia. And maybe there's a link in your world as well, but it's exactly what you're talking about, like being able to read the energy in the room, being able to modulate your own sympathetic nervous system because anesthesia sets the tone in the OR. Like the Enneagram can be a tool for a CAA to learn about themselves first and foremost. And then as you get, you know, more understanding of yourself, you can use that knowledge to learn more about the room and that art and anesthesia, which is kind of this like ethereal thing everyone talks about, but it's like, no, I I'm pretty sure I'm finding some things you can actually do to learn the art of anesthesia. And the Enneagram feels like exactly one of these places you could go to learn.
SPEAKER_01One of the super cool learning instruments. I agree with you, absolutely. There's a lot of podcasts and interviews where people do panels of different types, and then you can listen to different types talk about how they experience things, which is a great tool. But I mean, what you're saying is like how to how to it's the art of people. Like you're talking about the art of seizure is the art of people.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_01And what I'm priming myself to figure out how to do is undergram for healthcare providers. Like that's not a thing. Um, there's mindfulness for healthcare providers. Um, there's no book, website, retreat, um knowledge, you know, that doesn't exist right now. But I mean, I'm open to forming a community um and figuring out how do we integrate, how do we purposely integrate this into the art of medicine, period, maybe anesthesia specifically. But yeah, everybody, every all of us who are conscious and providing healthcare come across personalities in patients and in colleagues. And it's probably the hardest thing we do besides the electronic medical record.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_00We don't struggle with that. You I feel your world, that's more of a burden. Our world, I would say it is the people, it is the interactions, it's the operating room setting and that culture. Yeah. So it's just an it's such a powerful tool. And as I'm talking to you and I'm thinking of people listening who are like excited right now or they're interested or they have that curiosity. Of course, I'm gonna put the links in the show notes. But when you're looking at a lifelong journey of self-understanding, of maybe diving into the Enneagram, there has to be a first step. Um, can you just lay out really plainly like what should someone's first step be who's listening? And maybe, you know, like how to approach the the next few steps?
SPEAKER_01Well, I think hold very loosely the free test I gave you. But take the free test I gave you. There's two tests. One is really quick and easy, one is a little bit more involved. Um, hold it extremely loosely. Like just don't even think you're getting a diagnosis, just do it. And then read about the top three in either that website or the other websites I gave you, and see what resonates. And if none of it does, just keep reading, read about all of them. And see if anything resonates, and then start diving deeper. And in those sites, you can dive deeper. And then I provide um interviews, I provide uh typing interviews, and in the interview we get underneath things to motivations, so it's not about behaviors, it's about motivations. And they're really therapeutic in themselves because you know people feel like, oh, like I've discovered things about myself just from this interview. It's very prescribed, it's 50 minutes. It doesn't end with a diagnosis, but it ends with three top, and then um why. And um, I haven't figured out a venue to actually do that and charge for a professional age video. It sounds like you should. I got my certification in that about I think maybe 18 months ago. And to get the certification, I had to do like a hundred interviews. So I did a lot of interviews, and um, maybe it wasn't that many, but it felt like a hundred. Yeah.
Free Courses, Workshops, Next Steps
SPEAKER_01You know, practered and there, you know, there was a lot of interviews. Um, but that's something that is available either. I mean, there's other people who do that who know how to who have websites and are doing that professionally. Like, but that's another way when people are really stuck, and it's actually a really nice um way if somebody's really getting interested to be heard and seen and and explore and have a partner in exploring.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01The other thing to warn about, I guess, I don't know if it's a warning or educate. There are lots of teachings out there. Like the Enneagram people are are teaching a lot, and you don't have to be a certified provider to teach, you can just say I'm teaching. Like anything else, you know, that's it's can be biased or it can be confusing. And um, the IEA, the International Enneagram Institute, has um certified providers on it. I'm a certified provider on the IA IEA. In order to get that, you have to have trained a certain amount, you have to have taught a certain amount, you have to have letters of recommendations. So if people are interested in teachers looking at the IEA, it um is a place to look. So I don't know, to answer your question, there's lots of.
SPEAKER_00No, you absolutely did. And I just really want to name that I think like how you just answer that question is one of the reasons I'm drawn to you and generally drawn to people who are in a mindfulness space because they are so there's so much humility in what you claim to know and what you, you know, will always say you don't know, and like always coming from this position of a curious learner. I just think anything framed in that reference, I'm so much more drawn to um to have my own experience and learning than someone who says, like, it has to be this way, and this is the truth. And like that's just a huge red flag to me. So I'm just I'm really grateful that if my audience is new to the Enneagram, that you are their first voice in learning about the Enneagram. And of course, I'll put all of the links in the show notes. Um, any uh opportunity for for people to follow up with you. I know you said you don't currently offer the narrative interviews, but maybe put your uh if you give me your email and people respond to you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I imagine collaborating um with a group who do have like a platform, and I'm I'm trying to figure out where I fit in in that. And so interesting. Um yeah, and I'm I'm open to whatever unfolds with this. I mean, that's kind of what what's happening for me over the last four or five years, and the teaching at the medical school has just kind of unfolded, and then this has kind of found its way in really through the students. Like I said, I never even mentioned it in a mindfulness discussion. I wouldn't have even mentioned it until two years ago. And I probably wouldn't have mentioned it with you. Yeah, Mary Jean, except I'd kind of been given the permission.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So I I am open to co-creating whatever happens. So I will share my email. Like I said, I've got this um group I'm kind of collaborating with. Something else we're doing, um, that maybe I'm interested in two things actually. I'm glad you asked because I totally forgot. Um with this group I'm working with, we're doing a course for parenting in the end of February. It's a it's a two-day, like I think nine to four. Lunch is provided. It's a pilot, so it's free, um, free lunch. And it's about attunement parenting in the Enneagram. And that's what we're focusing on. Well, we're specifically focusing on prenatal moms because that's my people I have access to. But it's really open to anybody who can get away for two days at the weekend. I mean, we're just thinking people who have little kids probably aren't gonna take away from nine to four Saturday and Sunday. Um, but I'll I'll send you the brochure. We are open to anyone in the community. This is, like I said, the pilot, and it's an Enneagram introduction. So there's that. Also, as a prelude to that, I'm teaching two kind of introductory courses. Um, one January 23rd and one sometime in February that hasn't been established yet. Um, where I'm just gonna kind of run through the types and talk about the gifts and the places that we're stuck as an introduction for those who are taking the February course, but it's really open to everyone.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_01And the one in January is gonna be virtual both virtual and in person. It's gonna be hybrid. And the idea is it's a little bit of background for those doing the class in February, but it's also just for anybody.
SPEAKER_00Amazing. Well, I really appreciate your time and I'm excited to get this episode out to my community and just have it start creating its ripple in the world. And you know, I will be in touch because you're now on my mentor list. So I'm like, let's check in with Dr. Jackson, see what she's doing. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01Um, yeah, it just feels like actually that's a big part of my future calling is to mentor. I mean, that's where I want to be now, too.
SPEAKER_00That space is to very interesting. Yeah. Well, you got me. Um, so thank you so much. And um, yeah, I'll talk to you. I'll talk to you soon. Yeah.
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