2025 AAAA Diversity Scholarship Winners On Code Switching and Belonging [AA STUDENT PROCESS]

In this AA student PROCESS episode, I sit down with 2025 AAAA Diversity Scholarship winners Brashe' Webster and Lindsey Glenn to tell the truth about underrepresentation, code switching, and what it costs to “perform” in the OR. We talk through access, mentorship, program fit, and the practical questions pre-AAs can ask so they choose AA school with their eyes open.

Follow Lindsey Linkedin or glindsey.1010@gmail.com

Follow Brashe' Linkedin or w.brashe@yahoo.com

Key Links

• 2024 Scholarship Winners PROCESS episode 60
• Email the 2025 Diversity Committee Chair
• Join the AAAA (must be AAAA member to apply for Diversity scholarship)
• DONATE NOW Diversity Scholarship - AAAA
• LEARN MORE Diversity Scholarship Requirements

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Transcript

Welcome And Podcast Mission

SPEAKER_00 1:55

Welcome to the Awakened Anesthetist Podcast, the first podcast to highlight the CAA experience. I'm your host, Mary Jean, and I've been a certified anesthesiologist assistant for close to two decades. Throughout my journey and struggles, I've searched for guidance that includes my unique perspective as a CAA. At one of my lowest points, I decided to turn my passion for storytelling and my belief that the CAA profession is uniquely able to create a life by design into a podcast. If you are a practicing CAA, current AA student, or someone who hopes to be one, I encourage you to stick around and experience the power of being in a community filled with voices who sound like yours, sharing experiences you never believed possible. I know you will find yourself here at the Awakened Annesotist Podcast. Welcome in. Hello to all my fellow CAAs, AA students, and anesthesia colleagues. I'm your host, Mary Jean, and welcome to our process interview series. These process episodes are meant to expand our collective understanding of what a CAA can be and do and move us all in the direction of creating our own life by design rather than default. A quick recap today because this actually is a student process episode. These two women have won the 2025 Quad A Diversity Scholarship. And just to give a bit of a recap on that scholarship, let me read you what the Quad A says about it on our website. The Quad A Diversity Scholarship enhances opportunities in the anesthesiologist assistant profession and aims to develop an inclusive profession for people of all backgrounds to pursue their passion for patient care. In this student process episode, you'll be meeting the two diversity scholarship winners, Brishea Webster and Lindsay Glenn, and you'll hear them reflect on their unique challenges and triumphs that led them to success. Together, we'll uncover the difficulties navigating the demands of AA school as a student with a diverse background and what's needed to break barriers in a predominantly homogeneous field. Briset and Lindsay reflect on their motivations and navigate broader themes of underrepresentation in order to foster meaningful change and craft their own lives by design. I want to welcome Lindsay and Brishey, the 2025 Diversity Scholarship winners to Awakened Anestitus. Welcome, you guys. Thank you for having us. Thank you. I'm so excited. Yes, I'm excited as well. We had a little bit of technical issue coming into this episode. So we're actually we're all bonded in like the trauma of trying to get uh tech to work. So I'm excited to kind of move past that and into your stories. I am so honored to collect stories from our student AA community, our practicing AA community, and the pre-anesthesiologist assistant community. It is such a little pocket that you can get really siloed into only hearing stories from your, you know, three or four immediate connections who are CAAs or in this journey. And so it's so important for me, and it is such a love language to bring all stories to the podcast. Um, and last year I, for the first time, interviewed the 2024 Diversity Scholarship winners. And we're actually gonna include a little bit of an update from them at the end of your episode. But I wanted to start your episode in the same way, just really getting to know you individually, who you were before all of this AA school stuff. Miss Lindsay, you want to go first?

SPEAKER_03 5:49

Great. Thank you for having me. Hi, I'm Lindsay. So I was originally born in Denver, Colorado, and I have, you know, a very small immediate family. Um, I identify as African American. I was born to um a mother who came from Birmingham, Alabama, um down south, and to a father from Denver, Colorado. Being born in Denver, I was in a very predominantly white community. Um, but I was able to kind of find my comfort and community with other people that looked like me. So that's kind of like the benefit of growing up in Denver. I was able to be able to switch around with different communities, but it also taught me how to code switch and also be able to navigate different areas and spaces that I might not be used to. But when I graduated, I decided to attend the illustrious Suskee University, which is an HBCU, a historically black college university. And that was kind of an entire shift for me just because it was completely different from what I grew up around, but it felt more honing into me and what I identify with. And I felt like I blossomed a lot there. But I knew I wanted to go to medical school or just be in the healthcare medical field from a very young age. So as I started trying to get into spaces to shadow or get more exposure, I felt like I wasn't getting the necessary access to those spaces just because of where I was located locally. Um, it could be because of my race and also just because of my age, you know. So eventually I had to really fight to get into different spaces. Emailing, networking, I really had to get my foot in the door, and it was never handed to me. Um, so then once I graduated, um, to get more healthcare experience, I decided to go work at Grady Memorial Hospital in Atlanta, Georgia, as a health equity access coordinator. And I was able to work in the emergency department through the social work department as well as the mother baby floor as well. And basically I was just hired to give patients access to care that they otherwise would not have access to because they don't have someone advocating for them. So it was almost like I'm giving back to my community and giving them the access to different resources the hospital provides that I was not granted access to and I had to fight for. So it almost was like I was serving myself in a way through my community. And through that, I would gain a lot of exposure through the healthcare field and you know, medically being able to now I have a spot to shadow. Now, because I have a badge and I have healthcare experience and people now know who I am. Now I'm able to shadow and get the exposure that I really needed when I was an undergrad. So I decided to apply to anesthesia school, and I got in and I finally felt like I was making my way through life, and it just kind of goes to show how kind of having to fight for my spot to get into certain spaces and also making room for the people coming behind me who also want to get into these spaces as well. It can be kind of difficult as a person of color getting into predominantly white spaces or spaces where we don't necessarily have that access to, and we have to work 10 times as hard to get into these spaces, but it is worth it. It is worth it to get through. So I'm happy I made it here, and that's where I am today.

Brashe' On Code Switching Early

SPEAKER_00 9:28

Thank you so much, Lindsay. I have so many things I want to, yeah. Brishe is clapping you. Snapping. Um, so many things that you said that I want to dive further into. I want to give Brishey her voice as well. Um, Briset, same question to you, except for Lindsay mentioned the um what, the idea, the the necessity of code switching. And that may be uh a new idea, especially for someone who's white or has not had to do that before. So I don't know if you have any extra comments on how that felt for you.

SPEAKER_01 10:09

Absolutely. Um, code switching is something that I personally had to learn how to do very early on. I'm from Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. Um, I'm African American, and both of my parents are from Oklahoma. I would say we actually had a pretty diverse upbringing in terms of like my high school was divided probably in fours, like with Asian, African American, white, and Hispanic. So I was more used to multiple cultures, but where I went to school in Denver, Colorado was very difficult for me where I went to AA school. Um, so code switching um is where I might be more myself in another situation. I have to kind of conform to the standards of who I'm interacting with. And not just in a professional sense, but um I have a very strong country accent. And it seems like a lot of people in the Denver metro area haven't interacted with black people at all, especially in the hospital. And so it just made it very difficult for me to be in certain spaces, and I had to kind of put myself in this box that I normally didn't have to do back in Oklahoma.

Getting Access And Keeping Doors Open

SPEAKER_00 11:17

Can you all talk about um maybe whoever wants to go first, how you got that first opportunity to break into a space that you felt like wasn't designed for you, wasn't welcoming of you, whether that was getting your first shadowing experience or maybe getting into um under undergrad or getting accepted into AA school. Like where in that journey was that the hardest? And how did you overcome that? How did you get seen?

SPEAKER_01 11:44

Um, I got blessed by um my boss's name, it's Janice Newton. Um, she's a clinical nurse specialist. She gave me a job as a research assistant at OU Medical Center in Oklahoma City. Um, this was in 2015. It was my first healthcare job, and she would give me time off to go shadow. She um helped connect me with different physicians that she knew. She encouraged, she let me adjust my schedule so that I could go to class. So if I had like a 3 p.m. class, she would let me work like six to two so that I could go to class. She was one of the biggest blessings that I had in undergrad, having someone who is on your team and championing for you. Um, and then even when I left the organization, she wrote me a recommendation letter for medical school. And when I went to surgical tech school, she um gave me a card and a gift card. And so having someone who sees that light in you and sees that potential in you makes all the difference.

SPEAKER_00 12:37

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm The power of someone truly seeing you and how that propels you is such a compelling story, I think. Lindsay, anything else to add? Um, do you agree? It was it different for you, experience differently?

SPEAKER_03 12:53

Um, it really takes a village for African Americans or any applicant or any student that doesn't come from a traditional background to get into spaces like these. So you really have to be intentional, persistent. You have to make sure you communicate well. So it's not only finding that one person to give you that access, but also maintaining that access individually. And I feel like that was the hardest part. Once I got in the door, keeping the door open for me, keeping the door open for the people behind me. And yes, it kind of gives you like a guide, having a person to open that door for you, but maintaining it open is the hardest part. And that goes back to the code switching part because you have to make sure that every space you walk into, you're able to read the room. You're able to understand, am I able to be my authentic self in this room? Or do I have to put a mask on? And sometimes, you know, it's a benefit to putting a mask on. Sometimes it doesn't feel like a mask. It's just, you know, being friendly, being nice, you know, smiling a lot. But also sometimes, what if I don't want to smile? You know, what if I'm having a hard day? I don't know how that'll be interpreted by people. So it's almost as if I can't be too quiet. You know, I have to smile. I can't have a bad day because that could be interpreted as oh, you are not grateful for this spot that we gave you access to. That's the hardest part. No breaks.

SPEAKER_00 14:27

I have another question, but Brashey, tell me what you're feeling right now. I see you're reacting to what Lindsay's saying. Tell me your opinion on all of that.

SPEAKER_01 14:37

Um, I wholeheartedly agree that a lot of the time you walk into a space, and if you are not smiling, if you are not at 100%, if you're any type of outside of this box that they want you to be in, then it's, oh, you're an angry black woman, or you're not grateful, or you're not taking this seriously. And I'm like, well, no, I'll just have a migraine, or I'm a little hungry, not I'm not grateful to be here. Um, especially with the code switching. I didn't have very many African-American patients in Colorado, but when I did, I would speak to them in more of my authentic words and tone. And one of my preceptors even mentioned, like, well, why were you talking to them like that? I've never heard you talk like that. And it's like, I was making the patient comfortable, and that's how I normally talk. And they're like, Oh, well, I don't really think that was appropriate. I'm like, I didn't say anything inappropriate, and the patient felt a lot more comfortable. They were literally scared they were gonna die. So, what I can do to make the patient comfortable is making you uncomfortable. That doesn't make any sense.

SPEAKER_00 15:37

Yes. My heart is really heavy listening to you both share your experiences. Like that is a truth that's really hard to carry for you, for you, and it it really sucks. I'm really sorry that that's what it's felt like for you. I know, I know that's true. I want to, you know, it is not your responsibility to educate the white community, but I also think this podcast is about saying up front the reality of like your experience as African-American women in AA school as AA students is not well understood. And so I really just want to put the real out there. And Brishea, you just kind of mentioned a very specific example, how you feel like you were um, you know, maybe even given a negative eval, like your preceptor was thinking, gee, she's really not being professional when you were just showing your authentic self. And I I would love to hear if um uh Bruce, there's kind of like a big bomb that I don't want to like just drop for you, but um I know that there's something that's just recently happened. Um, so maybe Lindsay, maybe you kick us off and just uh share how it feels to be an AA student. And does the AA community like, do you feel like it is mostly a certain way, like mostly white, or you have to show up in this particular way and how that feels for you?

SPEAKER_03 17:06

So I will admit I was incredibly nervous preparing for anesthesia school because you know, I knew what it would be like, you know, looking up, you know, who was in the anesthesia field. I barely saw anyone that looked like me. But to be honest, maybe it's because of, you know, my program or the people I surrounded myself by, they welcomed me with loving arms. And it almost shocked me a little because I didn't feel like I really I feel like I didn't have to overly prove myself in a cultural way. Yes, I do need to smile, yes, I do need to make sure that I'm friendly, but it was almost as if that they were welcoming because they knew that I would be able to reach a certain um amount of people or a certain demographic of people that they could not reach. For example, if you know I'm in clinicals now, I mean for example, if I encounter a patient that looks like me, she's incredibly nervous, she's freaking out. Um people walk into the room, we have the surgeon, anesthesiologist, nurse, you know, my preceptor, and they all don't look like her. I can see straight through her. I see the fear, I see the the almost like I don't know what's about to happen. But as soon as I present myself and I walk into the room and I introduce myself, it's almost kind of like the shoulders untense. And I feel like the room, which goes back to reading the room, they can see how our unspoken interaction kind of softens the room a little bit. And once I notice that I have the permission to really switch a little bit, turn off that close switch a little bit and speak to my patient in a way that I would speak to a family member, then that's when they kind of step back and give me the space to let them um interact with me the way that I want so that it calms the patient down. So I would say that's kind of like a different perspective to where they kind of allow me to go into my space and how I truly am with the patient because that just improves patient care and patient outcomes. But when it comes to professional, that's where it kind of gets sticky because that is not as welcomed professionally.

SPEAKER_00 19:15

Mm-hmm. Yeah, it seems very almost the culture of your school either supports your authenticity or puts your authenticity further and further further in a box. And it seems like you're having um like two different experiences. I haven't even said where you guys go to school. Do we want to say yes? We absolutely should say. Lindsay, do you want to say where like where you go to school and what part of school you're in right now?

SPEAKER_03 19:41

Yes. So I attend um VCom Bluefield University, and this is in Auburn, Alabama. I am a first year at Vcom as an SAA, and I'm currently doing clinicals.

SPEAKER_00 19:55

And yes. Where are you right now in the world? I see that you're in a uh maybe a room, a bedroom.

SPEAKER_03 20:01

Yes, this is not my bedroom. So I'm actually in clinicals. I'm in Atlanta, Georgia. Um, and I am, you know, getting some of my clinical experience until I return back to school.

SPEAKER_00 20:12

Brochet, where are you? Where are you going to school and where are you right now in the world?

SPEAKER_01 20:18

Well, what had happened was, no, I'm joking. Um I'm currently in Oklahoma City with my family. Um, so I attended the University of Colorado AA program. Unfortunately, I made the very tough decision to withdraw in good standing and I'm looking for another program if you guys would love to have me. Um, I had a very difficult experience there. There were a lot of cultural things, there were some racism, some discrimination. Um, I had a lot of personal things going on. And so I think that overall it just really wasn't a good fit for me. And I think another program might be a better opportunity for me to learn and grow as an AA.

SPEAKER_00 20:59

Hmm. Wow, that is that is really unfortunate. And like on the heels of you winning the diversity scholarship.

SPEAKER_01 21:08

Yes. So I just finished my fourth semester. Um, and so this January, let's see, the 15th, this this week, uh, we would have been starting our senior year. So we would graduate December 26th. So I'm bummed out about it, but I am looking forward to my next steps.

SPEAKER_00 21:28

Yeah. How does that work to um can you transfer credits to a different school? Have you investigated this? I know this is pretty fresh.

SPEAKER_01 21:37

Um, as far as I've seen, no one really offers opportunity to transfer. Um, it really depends on how the programs are structured. So, my program, we had kind of a hybrid type of model. So we had clinicals from the first month of school. And so another program might be structured where they don't have any clinicals or limited clinicals during the first year. And so, depending on the next school, we may or may not be aligned, or they may have more didactic versus clinical. And so, I don't know if transferring is even a viable option. I would love that. Um, but I'd be happy to start over as well. I mean, I'm pretty prepared.

SPEAKER_00 22:11

Wow. Wow. How do you know you want to continue being a CAA despite how misaligned it feels like that program was? Like what is keeping you going?

SPEAKER_01 22:25

Because I know that I did a great job being an anesthetist as a student, and I know that everything that I had going on negatively contributed to my experience at that school, but um I had great clinical evaluations, and I know that I'm more than capable of doing this job and being able to care for my patients and advocate for them and keep them safe. And so I think that the yes, I've had a big financial deficit because of it. And but I think that investment is worth it. Um, I've also considered, you know, going to CRNA school or even going to medical school, but I feel like the AA path is the right one for me. And I think that the right program and I are gonna find each other.

The OR Stage And Extra Masks

SPEAKER_00 23:07

What a crazy amount of emotional intelligence and resilience it takes to even utter those words, to say, I've lost a lot and I still see the value in continuing forward. Wow. That's really impactful, really powerful. And hopefully someone listening to this episode hears it, hears it and feels the same because wow, what an incredible asset to our profession you'll be. Well, after that, maybe let's uh Lindsay. Let me ask something about something you've said. Lindsay, you talked about wearing masks. And I want to dive in a little further because I think. That there is a general need to wear some type of mask in the operating room. And it sounds like you all, both of you, agree with that. I feel like I oftentimes have to wear masks in some situations. I'd love for you to just put a finer point on the difference between the way maybe I have to put on a mask as a white woman who's been a CAA for like 15 years and how that is different for you, Lindsay, as an AA student who's African American.

SPEAKER_03 24:26

Yes. So it's a few masks that you have to wear. Um as an African-American, number one, African-American female, number two, and also I feel like due to my age as well, um, being younger, it just, you know, it's it's a lot of battles that I kind of have to internally try to work myself through, but also professionally. I will say, like, for example, in the operating room, all eyes are on you. And I did not know this, you know. I when I went to, you know, my first week of clinicals, I thought, okay, you know, I have my own space to do my own thing, handle the patient how I want to. But then I turn around and I realize why is everything so quiet? Everyone is staring at me. Everyone is staring at me. Everyone is waiting for me to intubate this patient, everyone's waiting for me to push these medications. It's almost as if I'm on a stage. And when you're on a stage, you have to perform. You have to perform. And the first few with the clinicals, that was a big adjustment for me because in my head, I was not used to the pressure and the tension of the room while they're waiting for me to perform, right? So as a new student who has never done this before, who might have messed up or might have, you know, maybe not have gotten my intubation correct. And then I hear, you know, the size or the oh, you know, because they have never seen a black female student doing this in a very long time, or even be able to have access to the space. So it's almost like I'm predetermining their thoughts that are circling through my head, or she does not belong here. I wonder if she's gonna get this or she's not gonna make it. Are they making bets in their head on whether I'm gonna make this intubation or not? So it's almost as if I'm taking on the tension and pressure of the room while I'm on that stage and performing, and it affects your confidence. It really does. So then you really have to just kind of get used to the fact that, yeah, they're gonna stare at me. They're, you know, they might not tell me to my face, but I can see in their face that they don't see it in me. So it's almost as if I have to make sure that I'm taking notes, that I'm listening intently, that they know that I am here to work, I'm here to prove myself. And even if I have to wear a mask, it's worth it. It sucks. It really does because sometimes I want to let, you know, my precept know, hey, like I'm not confident in this right now. I'm about to have an anxiety attack. Or, you know, but I can't. I I don't have the space to because I have to work 10 times as harder. And they hold me to a certain standard that I have to prove every time. And walking in in the nervousness of pushing the patient back into the operating room, knowing I'm about to get on stage and perform right now. Working through that, you you kind of have to just get used to putting that mask on. And that can be completely different from your experience where you know you've been in your career for a long time, you know. Um, they see people like you all the time. They expect you to know what's going on and what's happening. They don't have to stare at you the whole time and watch every single thing that you do. But for me, everything is wash, every, you know, syringe I might accidentally drop on the floor. Every, you know, my hands are shaking and something might not go right. It's just something I have to get used to.

SPEAKER_00 27:39

I what do I want to do? I I I'm debating between asking how this gets better. Like, I mean, I I would say um there's a whole bunch of systemic racism that goes into you feeling like that and that being a reality and not discrediting that at all. But, you know, okay, how does how does next generation of Lindsay not have to deal with that? Is it because Lindsay, Glenn, will be her preceptor or his preceptor? And that helps to start break that cycle of um every non-white person having to wear this additional mask because, you know, again, it is a stage for everyone. It it truly feels like what you just described, I felt as well. But there is a difference that is that I have never experienced as a non-white person on that stage in that operating room. And so I just want everyone to really hear if they're like saying, well, that's how it feels for me. And I, you know, you just can't understand because there's just a whole bunch of other stuff that's gone into Lindsay having to put on an additional mask. Okay, so that was like a I started to rant, but but let's actually go back to the question. What is the thing that's gonna make that better for the next generation? Do you have any thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_03 29:04

I would say what makes that better is, you know, people like you are A's, like you providing the spaces for us to share our experiences because people won't know unless we voice that. But I also think that having more people of color in these spaces and seeing how they navigate that benefits as well because we have such a low population of diverse backgrounds in the anesthesia community, it almost puts a higher responsibility on us that are making it through to be able to mentor um younger professionals going through the same thing. And I've also at the same time, even though I'm freshly a student, kind of feeling a lot of these people looking up to me that I was not expecting. And it feels a little intimidating because I don't have it all together, and I don't know what advice I can give you because I'm the one that needs advice. I'm the one that that is still trying to figure it out, and it almost is, you know, because I'm an older sister, I'm an older sibling. We know, you know, how that goes. You're always expected to kind of pave the way for other people, but you don't really have anyone to look up to to kind of guide you through that. I've been really blessed that ever since I've been on my anesthesia journey, there has been quite a few people that have been willing to make space for me and provide me guidance, but also kind of the inherent okay, even though I don't have it all together, I need to make sure that I figure it out so that I can make the way for the people coming behind me. So providing spaces like these, having scholarships like these, you know, being able to give us a voice is what's most important because, you know, it's not intentional. You know, people, the stares, the the eyes, it's not intentional. And they'll never say to your face how they really feel. But I know for me personally, what has helped me in the present moment is building a relationship with the people that, you know, I precept with or the clinicals. I make sure I'm extra friendly. I ask them how their day is, kind of breaking that ice because it kind of breaks that barrier of, oh, you're being quiet because you're irritated, you're upset, no, I'm shy. I don't know what's going on. I don't, you know, so kind of having that, which goes back to the mask, having that extroverted personality has its benefits because then that's when they start breaking down those barriers, speaking to you more, having more conversations. But where does the conversation go if you don't have anything in common? You know, where does that conversation go if you don't have anything else to talk about because we're from different backgrounds, we don't look alike, so it kind of hits this wall of okay, what do we talk about now? So it's it's a whole bunch of layers to how you carry yourself as a person of color.

Withdrawing From Her AA Program

SPEAKER_00 31:50

Yes. And um, all of that, um, like where does the conversation go from here is is a very real disadvantage in the operating room as a student. Like people who aren't in this don't realize how important it is to have a working dynamic where you feel something akin to teamwork, friendship, um, a mentorship between the student and the preceptor, confidence, like equal parts confidence in each other. Um, and that all is relational. And so feeling like you only have a surface connection with people because you're just very different from them does limit an AA student. Um wow. That thank you for sharing all that, Lindsay. Um, Bruche, talk to us about what you want to share, about um how it felt to be you in AA school and maybe what you can share about what led you to to decide it was best for you to leave the program.

SPEAKER_01 32:56

Um, so our program is small in terms of students, but the hospital we practice at is huge. It's a level one trauma center, and um they have residents, fellows, AAs, AA students, C RNAs, and then we're gonna they're gonna start having s r and a's too. And so it just made it kind of intimidating, a little overwhelming. Um, I like to say I grew up at a level two hospital.

SPEAKER_00 33:19

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 33:20

And I think a lot of a lot of it had to do with my age, my confidence as a person. I'm a very blunt person. I don't like playing games, and um, and I think it had to do with me being black. We had two black residents. I was the only black student in my program. I have finally heard that there was one other black student in the 11 years of my program. Um, I was one of the few parents. And so they are really just not used to dealing with me or anyone who looks like me. And I think that played a huge role in a lot of my clinical evaluations. It played a huge role in how I interacted with program leadership. And um, it was a very, very difficult, tumultuous experience. Lindsay was talking about the mask earlier and some of those interactions that Lindsay was talking about. Um, I'm also neurodivergent. I won't tell y'all all of my business today, but um, it makes things a little difficult sometimes as far as social cues are concerned. And me having my experience in my life as an African-American woman, my social cues are a little different than the demographic that I'm constantly interacting with at school. And so sometimes I would be maybe making a face, like a questioning face, and like, oh, she has an attitude. I'm like, no, I just don't know what you're talking about. And so it makes it a little difficult sometimes being black, being neurodivergent, being older, being a more confident person on the surface when you're having those interactions. And sometimes I think it just kind of gets misinterpreted. Like, oh, you're upset. Like, no, I just you're doing something weird. I'm trying to figure out what you're doing, and I don't want to be like, hey, um, what are you doing? And because that's not appropriate as a student. So I'm just kind of watching, but they're like, oh, you have an attitude. Well, no, I just I genuinely don't know what you're doing. So I think sometimes having all of that intersectionality made it very difficult for me in some of those interactions.

SPEAKER_00 35:15

May I ask you, maybe I want to run something past you because this exact issue is something that I try to actually teach, like teach someone's way out of these how to read the room, how to pick up on social cues, and knowing that it's not all from my perspective. Um, so let me run this past you because one of the things I tell my students is to kind of take their power back at the beginning of the day. And it sounds like Lindsay, you're speaking to this some, um, but Burchet, how do you think it would have worked if you came into your preceptor's room in the morning and maybe you started with more of a safe preceptor and just was like, listen, I'm getting a lot of feedback that my confidence and my age is kind of stepping into the room before me, and I'm really wanting to make sure that you know that I'm coming from a genuine place of curiosity and learning. Please give me the benefit of the doubt. You know, like kind of taking your power back at the beginning. Do you think that would have worked? Do you think that would work in your situation?

SPEAKER_01 36:15

I think that would have worked in most situations. Absolutely. Um, I think that's a great tool, a great idea. Um, I think there are some preceptors that we have all seen where it doesn't matter what you do, they don't fool with you like that. And it just is what it is. Get through the day, take care of the patient, never talk to them again. Um but I think for the most part, that would have been a great tool for me to have in my pocketbook to just kind of advocate for myself from the beginning. Hey, I have a little touch of stuff going on. Um, I'm genuinely curious, and I'm not necessarily questioning you. I want to understand.

Picking The Right AA Program

SPEAKER_00 36:50

Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, just as like a suggestion for everyone, like you will feel like you have absolutely no power, that everyone is staring at you. And my encouragement is always the and both. Like, yes, that is true. And also in in some, maybe many situations, there might be a glimmer of you to start with a conversation like that, that that can then change the tone. And again, not on every preceptor, because unfortunately in medicine, there's just some personalities that just aren't open to that. They just are so rigid. And I believe that there's a future world where those rigid personalities are kind of weeded out and retired. And maybe we are the three personalities that are good, you know, people can be a little bit more flexible in their thinking. But all right. Ladies, I wanted to just ask where you see yourselves once you graduate. Um, and Briset, maybe where do you see yourself in terms of how long you want to take a break and and when you're applying and how you see the future for you back in AA school? Do you want to go first, Miss Um Bershey? Why don't you go first?

SPEAKER_01 37:55

Um, so I see myself, I mean, ideally being able to transfer, but I just don't know if that's a possibility. Um, anyway, so looking for a program that um that values my experience, not only as a scrub tech, as a black woman, as a neurodivergent student, um, but my experience as a student anesthesiologist assistant because I think the leadership skills that I have and the experience that I have can be a great asset to a program. Um, I want to be able to teach in the future and I want to be able to show people who look like me and have a background like me that you can do it. You are more than capable. Um, but I really encourage any pre-As who are looking for a program to make sure that this program has the support that you need, whatever that is. If you need more family support, then stay close to your family. I was very isolated from my family. We're a nine-hour drive away from my family, and it made it very difficult. As a single parent, I had a lot going on personally, and all of that is just not a good recipe for AA school. And so making sure that you have your personal life lined up and making sure that you and your program are in alignment is gonna make a huge difference on your experience.

SPEAKER_00 39:01

Brochet, thank you so much for sharing all of that. And actually, um, when you spoke about advising pre-AAs to be sure that their personal and professional life were aligned and that their program was, you know, in particular responsive to your specific needs. I just have a whole bunch of follow-up questions now about how a preAA would know that. Like, can you ask those questions in an interview or to the admissions team? But maybe think on that for a second. I'm gonna ask Lindsay. Lindsay, I would love to hear where you want to see yourself when you graduate or what your future um self really hopes uh where they hope to be. And also if you have any thoughts on maybe how you were able to pick Vcom in such an aligned or a more aligned manner.

SPEAKER_03 39:49

Yes. So I see myself graduating. I really want to stay down south just to be closer to my family. Yes, I was born and raised in Denver, but they actually moved to the south to be closer to me and the rest of my family. And that really meant a lot to me because you know, having a community that you can be close to makes all the difference. When you're going through your hardest times, the only people that you can turn back on is your family, your friends, and your community. So that kind of translates into the reason why I chose VCom as well, just because of the location. Um, Auburn, Alabama is close to Tuskegee, Alabama, which is where I went to college. Um, and I the advice I would give for pre-AA is just making sure that you talk to the students that are currently in the program. You make sure you network with the students that have graduated, and also reading the values um through their website and understanding what type of culture they are trying to set for their program. I was very nervous interviewing for VCom, but as soon as I walked through the door and understanding just the energy in the room and how they address me, how they ask me questions, I knew 100% that this is a program that's different. This program focuses on family connection, and they are intentionally seeking people that are willing to seek the same morals and values of connection, family, faith. Things that I hold really close to me. And I feel like, as you know, a person of color and someone who really values the anesthesia care team model, working with teams, I really knew that when I was interviewing with VCOM that this was going to allow me to build a personal community and relationship with the people that I'll actually be sitting in class next to. And so far, I've had an amazing experience, amazing opportunities. And, you know, translating that into being a student in the clinical operating room, being able to communicate with the team and collaborate with everyone to understand a clear goal of patient care, it makes all the difference. So my advice to pre-AAs is make sure that you fully research what program that you are applying to, speak to the people that are going to the program, and making sure that if you are a person of color, you're reaching out to people who are in that program who also share those same values and have the same background as you, what their experiences are as well. Because the worst thing that can happen is when you are on your ninth hour of studying for a test and you have three hours of sleep and you got to wake up in the morning, and the last thing you really want to deal with is you making it one minute before the test starts, and everyone's making comments about you being close to late because of the stereotype that maybe people might have on me. Um, you really want to be surrounded by people that are gonna ask you, hey, like what happened? What's going on? Not assuming that oh, you know, typical, you know, it makes a difference 100%.

SPEAKER_00 42:53

Thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you, Miss Lindsay. Uh Brishey, maybe like what's two or three questions that you're gonna be asking at your next application interview when you're seeking your next AA school?

SPEAKER_01 43:08

Lindsay, those are all wonderful points that you made. I really appreciated that perspective. Um, some things that I would ask personally and as a PAA who's never attended AA school. Um, things like how do you handle students who are struggling academically or clinically? How do you help students who have neurodivergence? How do you help a student who is having some personal issues? All of those are going to be things that I would ask. Also, things like, what are your GPA requirements within the program? How do you handle a student if they fail a class? How do you handle a student if they um have lost a patient? Are they expected to go back to the OR the same day? Um, I would also ask things like, like, for instance, my program, we train at the same facility our entire first and part of the second year. But where are your training facilities? How soon into the program do we do clinical integration? Um, I feel like those are all gonna give you a big picture on if you and the program are gonna align or not. I don't feel like I really thought about it that in depth when I was applying. And that was the only AA school that I got into. I ended up getting waitlisted to medical school and then got accepted after I had moved for AA school. And so I didn't, yes. So I didn't really have that perspective of what I needed to look for.

SPEAKER_00 44:29

But now I do. Wow. I mean, just if if pre-As are listening right now, please take notes. Like this is the lived experience guiding the next generation to, you know, like have a better alignment. Um, dare I say make fewer mistakes or like leave fewer things out. Really, really appreciate Burchet you being honest with that. And and you two have been such a guiding force. And I just want to thank you both for being honest and vulnerable and real and bringing your real selves. I hope you feel like you were able to be your real self on this podcast and with our community because I certainly see you both and and cannot wait for you both to be my CAA colleagues and maybe see you at Quad A. I'm not sure if you're gonna be there or not, but just really appreciate you both for being here today. I know that especially pre-AAs who are listening right now are going to want to talk to you and they're gonna have questions. You've said so many truly life-changing things that I just feel like people who uh identify with you andor just want to have more of your knowledge are gonna want to talk to you.

SPEAKER_01 45:38

I'm open to Instagram, uh, LinkedIn. You can email me. I'm I'm happy to help anyone on their journey who needs some guidance or advice or just needs to vent. I'm happy to hear. It and I'm happy to support you on your journey.

SPEAKER_00 45:53

Amazing. Lindsay, what about you? Are you okay if I yeah, what's best for you?

SPEAKER_03 45:59

Yes, um, you can DM me, email me, LinkedIn as well, anything. I also am open to exchanging phone numbers, having a call. I feel like having a phone call or FaceTime really kind of allows you to really open those spaces. So if I'm a little busy, don't mind me, but I'm always open to helping someone. And like I had mentioned previously, um, earlier in this, is because I was provided the space and just one person believed in me to kind of give me that advice to kind of get my foot in the door. I feel like I am entitled as well to allow that same space for other students. So um I might not have it all together. I might still need the guidance, but I am so open and willing to making sure that other students get the same opportunities as well.

2024 Winner Post Grad Update

SPEAKER_00 46:49

You two, again, I'm just so grateful for your generosity, for your willingness to come on here and just be real. Um, this has truly been just a really, really amazing conversation. Um, so yeah, just thank you so much. Thanks for listening to Awakened Anesthetist. If this episode resonated with you, share it with a CAA friend, an AA student in your life, or a perspective and let them know why you loved it. It's the most important thing you can do to support this podcast and its mission. You can always find more ways to connect with me and this CAA community at awakenedanesthetist.com. And while you're scrolling the website, check out my trusted CAA partners who make this podcast possible with a special thank you to my season five sponsor, Harmony Anesthesia Staffing. Talk soon.

SPEAKER_02 47:56

Hi, I am Takea McLaren. I am a certified anesthesiologist assistant and I currently work at a hospital in Georgia. I work a full call schedule, so I get about 45 to 50 hours give or take a week. It feels kind of weird being done with school now because I don't have to worry about submittments or preparing for exams, but it also feels really good to know that my school adequately prepared me not only to pass the board exam, but also to perform well in a clinical setting. There are a couple things though that I wish I knew before I started working. One of those things being finances. I wish I knew a lot more about investing and saving and budgeting before I started working. I also wish I'd taken time to get into different hobbies and interests outside of anesthesia because when I was in school, I don't think I made time for anything else besides school. So those are the two things that I wish I kind of took a little more time with. But overall, I love what I do on a day to day basis, and I try to encourage anyone that will listen that this is the best job in the world.