🚨 In this episode, John & La'Fayette are joined by special guest Dr. Lloyd C. Williams. They have a thought-provoking conversation about overcoming depression. As leaders, we can easily become so externally focused that we dismiss the needs that we have internally. When was the last time that you had a conversation that wasn't centered around organizational goals, company-growth, or climbing the corporate ladder? But instead the conversation was centered around the state of your mental, spiritual and physical well-being? Depression goes beyond sitting in a dark room, not desiring to live another day. Many of us as leaders are "functioning" while being depressed! Your life was never designed to live in a state of depression, but you were created for more! Hit that PLAY and SHARE button to hear more of how you can overcome depression!
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Welcome to the Unscripted Authentic Leadership Podcast. A podcast where we are seeking to lead change. While also seeking to understand. We're also here to provide a platform for leaders to come together to you unite, develop and empower other leaders in the areas of business, family, faith and community. I am your host. Lafayette Lane, joined by my co-host, John, LeBrun and today we are joined by special guest Doctor Lloyd C Williams those of you that will watch this and even listen to this, put those hands together and clap for Doctor Williams. Put those clap emojis in the comments section. Here's our special guest today as we discussed a special pertinent topic, especially may being mental Awareness Month. Today we are going to talk about overcoming depression before we get into the topic and we introduce Doctor Williams. He tells us a little bit more about himself. We want to say thank you to all of our followers there that are. Part of our YouTube channel that you see on the bottom of your screen that have subscribe to our YouTube channel. Unscripted, authentic leadership. For those of you that are part of our various social media platform pages from Facebook, unscripted authentic leadership our Instagram handle there at unscripted leadership, you can also follow us on LinkedIn. Unscripted authentic leadership and those of you that are not a part of our watch family, but you're part of our listening family. You can stream our platform, our podcasts on any major podcast platform from. Apple to Spotify to Google Podcasts, iHeartRadio Stitcher, and so much more. Those of you that are interested in connecting with us and even being a guest on our show, you can check us out on our website unscripted-leadership.com. As I said today, we are joined by special guests Doctor Lloyd C Williams. A little bit about Doctor Williams. He is an organizational psychological consultant who focuses on the issues of healing the rift between people and systems with particular focus on the integration. In collaboration of organizational and clinical psychological solutions for people, is system issues. At this time we're going to hand it over to Doctor Williams to tell us a little bit more about himself where he's from and what he does. At this time. Doctor Williams. Were good afternoon everyone. Originally I'm from. Alabama I grew up in Tuskegee Institute. Well, my father was Dean of the School of Veterinary Medicine for 25 years. I am an organizational psychologist, a clinical psychological consultant. A professor and author. In a variety of venues, I have a PhD in clinical psychology with an emphasis in depth psychology. Every PhD in organizational psychology with an underlying interest in ethics. And a PhD in theology, personality and culture. I've written seven books and working on an eighth book now, and I'm the Chief Academic Officer at Transcontinental University. Senior consultant at brucetech.com. Anna consultant production rates. Williams consultants. Amazing those of you that will watch and listen to this as you've just heard, Doctor Williams is more than qualified to talk on this amazing topic of overcoming depression and we want to get right into the topic. I think I want to start with Langer Foundation Doctor Williams of what is depression? Because I think we all have our various definitions when we hear this word or we get a picture in our mind. And what that is. Can you just kind of give our audience foundational principles are foundational definition rather. Of what depression really is. Before we get into the topic of how we can overcome it and deal with it, what is depression? A depression is basically the inability of an individual. To maintain pleasure and joy and a sense of loss in their lives where they begin to decompensate and go downhill based on those things that are occurring for them. Uh. It takes on from a clinical perspective multiple diagnostic labeling so a person can either have a disruptive mood deregulation disorder. Or they can have a major depressive disorder, or they can have. Within their behavioral theories around depression, and they can have. Persistent depressive disorder, which is called this timea. And they can have postpartum depression. And all of them are different perspectives in terms of how people. Address changes in their lives that don't make a lot of sense for them, and it happens easily for most persons. Depression sort of begins around the age of 20. An existing males in many ways more than females. But people find themselves having. Significant challenges around preoccupation and a sense of being grossly out of sort. They don't feel like they are in control of themselves. They feel sad they kill blue. They feel a loss of pleasure in things such as sex. Uh, they don't sense that things are going well for them. From a diagnostic perspective. There's certain criteria that have to exist. So for example, a person can have a disruptive mood dysregulation and it has to occur for them. Most days for a period of 12 months. And in that particular disorder they have temper outbursts. They become really frustrated very easily. Uh Anne, it's exhibited over a long period of time. A person can have a major depressive disorder. Which is significantly more disruptive, but it happens every day for a period of at least two weeks. With at least one of the symptoms being a depressed mood and they have. Up to five different symptoms that can exist for them so they can have fatigue. Loss of energy. Feeling of weightlessness or excessive guilt. Diminished ability to think or concentrate, recurrent thoughts of death. Or recurrent suicidal ideations or suicidal attempts. So there are lots of different things that can drive someone to feel depressed. But you know, as I think about it. We've just gone through a year of kovit. Yeah, it's good. And then in that year COVID a lot of persons have become depressed where they feel like they don't have control over their lives. They feel a lot of control out of sort. Very sad, very blue. And I guess for me. I find that a lot of that is based on an underlying issue that most people never really address. Regardless to the issue of depression or other things in their lives, and that is. Most persons are externally driven. That's what I mean by that. They focus on what's outside of them and what other people say about them and how other people look at them and how other people value them. Challenge with that. Is. You never know who you are. Wow, 'cause you're always trying to. Live up to the perspectives of others you know rather than living up to your own. So persons are less likely to become depressed if they are internally driven own beliefs, their own values guide, who they are, what they do, what they say. So when you look at persons from. COVID they have value themselves based on their careers based on their jobs value themselves on being an amazing provider for their family. But it's about the. Extras not about who they are, it's about what they do. And so they become depressed because how they evaluate themselves and what they do no longer works. So it's changed. There's not the same degree of interaction between people. They're not in the office, they're not there making connections to people on a daily basis there at home, there, on Zune. Soon. And they don't feel like they had the level of connection that they used to have with others. They feel sad and out of sorts because they can't provide for the children the way they used to. They can't do the things for their lives the way they used to. They may find themselves becoming uncomfortable in the workplace. I mean it at home because the sexual intimacy, the emotional intimacy, the affection and intimacy that they used to enjoy is no longer there at the level that they once experienced. And it changes. So let's say you're you're Asian. Asians don't historically express their depression in terms of emotional psychological perspectives. They express it in terms of semantic perspectives. They have problems in their body, stomach aches, different types of paint. So. Men sometimes express depression through anger. Are they just not who they used to be and they get really excited and upset very easily? Women may express it in the traditional way. Uh, being sad, being being blue, having a sense of loss, feeling out of control children. He historically not talked about is having depressed moods. Began to have a level of sadness because they can't connect with their friends that they only had as they always said they're not in the classroom as they used to be. So all of them have specific challenges. They began to create real changes for them, but what's really going on is a sense of significant distress and a sense of impaired functioning. And so those are the types of challenges that exist around depression. That's that's so good because as you said, that was kind of the direction. I believe that we wanted to go in dealing with this whole pandemic situation be cause of the isolation element. We talked about people that are externally driven, and now you've come to the place to where you have to find out who you are and it's kind of forced us to that place. We didn't have a choice because we're inside, we're indoors, everything's locked down. If things locked down, it's no. What can we take positively from that time of isolation? Instead of using it for a negative thing, how can we turn that into? OK, this is the time that I have to evaluate with myself. Internalize self, assess. How can we manage that to better ourselves instead of using it to drive us to a dark place? Probably the the. Best thing is to recognize that you're in control of your own destiny and you don't have to rely on others to to dictate who you are and what you do. So let's see if I can talk about that in a different way. Sure, my 8th book that I'm writing is about admission theory. And it's about the challenges that people have when they rely on everything outside of themselves rather than who they are. So one of the things that happens around depression is people begin to experience, fear, blame, and shame. The shame is 'cause I'm not the image that I used to be. The blame is because I'm not doing what I knew needed to do. And the fear is I don't know who that can get back to where I was. So persons began to decompensate and go downhill, and that's the first level of enmeshment which is around that fear. Blame and shame. The second level of Enmeshment, however, is around isolation. Alienation and a sense of chaos. And so what's happening for a lot of persons over the past year has been the isolation and feeling alienated from others. Feeling alienated from family, feeling alienated from friends, and they experience their world as a chaotic world. And they don't know what to do with that world. So the first thing is to look at. Who am I? What drives and makes me the person that I am? What do I value? Would I believe in what's important to me? My father used to say if the whole world falls down around you, you still have to have you. And that's the challenge from depression. The whole world is. Falling down around them and people don't have themselves, and so they they experience that sense of loss now. Clinically if you have major depression. People say you have what's called a chemical imbalance. And that that chemical imbalance has to be repaired and people talk about varying types of medication like Cymbalta and other things like that to help you or they take Prozac Wellbutrin other types of medication that lift them and put them on an even keel. Also they can begin to think differently therefore to act differently. So the first thing that I would suggest to a person is they. Pay attention to who they are. The second thing is to look at. What is what exist in their life in a realistic way? No job ultimately dictates who you are. Yeah, you know. But people pay so much attention to the job, but they pay so much attention to their friends. Or they pay so much attention to things that they have the material things and all of a sudden that goes away and they don't see a sense or an anchor of anything about themselves, so that the goal is to create a new anchor. The goal is to create an anchor that's based on who you are, what you value, what you believe, and how you make a choice about what you want to do in the world. Rather than feeling that the world is done it for you. So you have to be in charge of you rather than at the world be in charge of this. The second thing is to look realistically at. Weird challenges exist. So men have to pay attention to. What is the side he said to them about what they're supposed to be? Versus what they themselves believe they're supposed to be. Sometimes men have grown up to be competitive. Men have grown up to be the provider. Men have grown up to be strong. Men have grown up to not cry. Men have grown to not show weakness. All of those things are detriments for men. Being able to survive in a world of depression. I have to look at the. Fact that I can be both strong and weak. We can look at the fact I can be provider and sometimes I need assistance. Should we look at? They can look at the fact that yes, I get angry, but I can also be sad. I can cry. So men have to recognize their humanis. Rather than their sense of superhuman, this because we're not superhuman, but we were raised to be superhuman, right, right so that that becomes really different. Women have to look at. Learning to see themselves as competent and capable as they are rather than believing they have to have a man do it, or they have to have parents do it, or they have to have friends or they've gotta find it within themselves. Children have to look at their parents, and children have to look at themselves. Children are often driven by what their peers say rather than who they are. Umso a child has to discover where they are themselves and what about their peers. Do they like in need? Versus what about themselves? Do they want to grow and shift and make make new changes for themselves? Does that answer what you asking? Or absolutely absolutely. What's that I? Said I have. I have a lot more questions but I will let. You ask a few. Yeah, I got a couple sitting here. I have to pick something. Active pick one to keep it within a time frame, so you'd mention I wrote this down if you see me looking down, I'm just taking a lot of notes so you mentioned the meds get you feeling differently. Therefore you can act differently. And then ideally I would think that would start you acting in the appropriate ways to move out of that. I would assume to back to the I'm in control of my destiny. Get out of my depressive state type of thing. Do you find that? When people are diagnosed OK, you have this type of depression. Here's some medications to help you get to that level spot where you can. Now I think you said. Think differently, therefore act differently. Should that be coupled with some type of counseling or coaching. Otherwise, I would think in my head if the person fell down the depressive like sort of into this depressive state. Yes, the medication could help them. Feel better moment for awhile but without the proper. Maybe counseling therapy would. I don't know the right words. They could potentially fall back down there or just stay on medication for a very way longer time than they would need, right? Shouldn't it be used more as an aid rather than? Like a vitamin like they just keep using forever. You know what I? Mean you're actually sharing the age old issue. That currently has existed for the past 25 years. OK, and the issue is. Can mental health be treated with medication alone? Or can mental health be treated with talk therapy alone? Or is there some combination of the two? Yeah no. I'm of this school of thought that says talk therapy is more important to medication. I believe if I can get someone to understand what the dynamics are that are going on within them. There are historical as well as current. That they can learn how to shift who they are based on what's inside of them rather than. Absolutely having to have a medication. Now there are some individuals in terms of major depressive disorders who actually need the medication to to create an even keel for them to be able to address issues, however. I'm not one of these that people need to be on medication forever. I am one of these that they need to be in the therapeutic process with with the clinician either the trickle psychologist and organizational psychologists in terms of executive coaching. A marriage and family therapist or licensed clinical social worker and LPC licensed professional counselor to address those types of issues that exist for them. And I don't necessarily believe that medication is is the end all to everything? Uhm? I probably wouldn't have that for. Probably get in trouble if I said, you know, insurance companies look at the best way to treat and at the same time make a profit and cost. So the reality is, if an insurance company can treat you buy medication. That's cheaper for them than treating you by psychotherapy. Sure, they would prefer for somebody to be treated by the medication rather than by the talk therapy, or some combination of the two, because the end of the insurance company has to pay for both the therapy as well as medication with the insurance company doesn't like to do that. They'd like to pay for. One or the other, but the medication may not actually be treating them, it just may be a temporary treatment. Absolutely, and it could be a masking effect, or it could be an actual helping effect and it depends on the individual and their psychological makeup and what they've experienced in their lives, so. I'm not one who is a big fan of medication. If I can do as much as possible in a second therapeutic venue rather than with the medication itself. Sure, OK, you mind. If I throw one more out there Lafayette. Doctor good alright? And then OK. You had mentioned that males is higher than females, which OK, I never thought about. Either way, it doesn't surprise me though. Do you think that would have anything to do and this is way out in left field? Little bit, but there's been this sort of epidemic of so many mails not having proper Father Hood for not saying dads are some, some have dads around, but we've all had friends who either have not had a father. Or they just were kind of. Emotionally absent, would that have anything to do with the fact that male men have so much higher rates of depression that they just don't understand how to properly act? 'cause you mentioned that they don't understand how to be in control of their not in control of certain ways. Therefore they get mad easy or something you. Know I'm not, I'm not sure I would make it that explicit. Sure, by that I mean. There are many who get. Depressed because of a lack of a father. There's some. There's some who get depressed because of how they were treated by fathers. But they are also impacted by how they are treated by mothers and how they treated by society. So. So it's not that easy then. Not easy, but it's also important not to. Exclude any of those issues. Yeah, So what the psychologists? Usually has to do is to. As a part of the history, taking with the client, the first two or three sessions. They want to try and understand as much about the clients background as they possibly can. Now, having said that, there are differences. I'm a psychodynamic therapist. Some persons are cognitive behavioral therapists. So cognitive behavioral therapist is going to look at what needs to be done today. And how do I change you so that you can function more effectively in society today? Second, dynamic Therapist says, well, that's important. However, your history and how you grew up and where you grew up is also important. And so one has to understand the historical makeup at the individual and how that's impacting the current makeup with individual and what needs to be shifted so that it doesn't repeat itself and changes and creates a different future relationship about who the person is so. He changes significantly. I think. There are challenges of fathers. And challenges of mothers. But we also have to recognize. Most fathers and mothers didn't have Rd maps about. How to beat yeah. So they make their own mistakes as they go up and it impacts the child. So let's say there's a mother whose young. And she had a child out of wedlock. And now she's raising that child and then all of a sudden she still wants to go out and party. But she can't afford a babysitter, so sometimes she leaves the children at home by themselves. When our society says that's wrong, society wants to punish the woman. But the other side of the impact is the child sometimes feels left alone, isolated, unable to know what is supposed to happen, what didn't occur, what is something wrong with them for the fact that their mother wasn't around all those things feed into a sense of loss. A sense of aloneness, a sense of isolation. So some people are depressed most of their lives. I just don't get help for that. They do different things people self medicate. So you have lots of alcoholism. Well, a lot of the alcoholism years away to. Mets etiquette. Self medicate around the depression. You have persons who do drugs, same issue. Or if they've had any significant emotional event that is created, paying us or sense of loss or stress or trauma. They may self medicate. So you have comorbid issues that exist for the individual, the actual clinical diagnosis, and the drug or alcohol issue that's that's built on top of that. So you have to work with both of those issues in order to create some significant change for the individual. Now. I don't know if you intended to do this, but. We're talking about it from an individual perspective. It also happens in a corporate respect. This is the org site part of me. Let's say you. Work for a company and the company does what's called the Almighty fit. Everybody is the same at the same beads. Same thing the same such smell. The same walk the same talk, the same. And you come in, and you're not that way. Yes, you become isolated. You become a checked, you become the enemy, you become the person who is wrong. And in that process, there's also organizational depression. And that depression is driven by how companies? Tend to operate as well as the histories that you bring to the organization as an employee. You have unresolved conflicts, unresolved pain, unresolved trauma. That sense of depression may be with you within the company. Depending upon who your supervisor or boss is and how they treat you. How they say things to you, how they help you be successful can impact whether or not there's a sense of organizational depression. Organizational anxiety that that impacts your ability to to be you, especially if you grew up and you're supposed to value who you are based by what you do yet, what you're experiencing. The organization is the lack of success. So those things create levels of organizational depression. So a lot of what? I end up doing in companies. I'm asked to be an executive coach. I'm asked to look at organizational change. I'm national asked to look at organizational restructure policies, procedures and practices. Human resource policies. Anne, in all of that. Often I find. Depression. Often I find anxiety. We need to understand that anxiety is the other side of the coin of depression. Usually a person is. Depressed and they are also anxious, so they have boats so often a person gets diagnosed with major depressive disorder or persistent depressive depressive disorder. This timing, as well as generalized anxiety disorder. So we have both of those things so. From a medical perspective, depression. They're looking at serotonin and dopamine and how to increase those things within the body so that the person feels better about who they are. OK, but it doesn't mean that it's always helpful. So one has to look at. How do you help somebody work through who they are to become more of who they want to be? Come from an internal perspective rather than an external one, and so we do that all the time. You know, there's just lots of different ways to do that. Uhm? So we do that. In executive coaching. We do that in clinical counseling. We do that in organizational change and restructure efforts. We sometimes look at some of those issues from training and development process is. Look at it sometimes in an educational process. For example, Transcontinental University is just created a masters program and inclusive leadership. And it's different. It's only programming is type of its time of its type in the country, and it's designed to look strategically. And how does an individual truly honor a known who they are as well as honor and phone who everybody else is? So that they look at how to build collaborative modeling processes rather than competitive modeling processes, because competition also breeds depression. If you were a young child. And everybody around you competes, and you had a basketball game. And the game everybody picks who's going to be on their team and you get left off the team. You're sitting on the sideline. That can be the beginning of depression. Because you feel like you're not valued, you're not cared about, you're not wanted. So you feel that isolation, that sense of loss that can occur at a very young age. Girls experience it at parties. You go to a party. She's not the girl picked to dance. No, you go to as you get older basketball teams sporting events. The band, all these other types of things where you get left out and feel alone. Those things begin to create create levels of depression for you in terms of the experiences that you have. It happens in the workplace. Lafayette is a black gentleman. So Lafayette has to look realistically at. Can he be fully himself when he goes to work with somebody? You you're talking about? Yeah, I was going. To be a nice day. Oh add note. Let's say John is is an openly gay man. I wonder if you are, don't don't tell me if you are, but they say John is an openly gay man and he goes to work in a company that's run by Mormons. He is likely to have Hello reels. Or he is working with the company and it's mostly women. And they see him as a good looking man. But he doesn't want to date any of them. So the pressure that they. Put on him becomes extreme. He begins to feel totally isolated in the workplace. He doesn't feel like they value what he does, they just feel like they value what he looks like. What's he going to do? How's he going to address those challenges? So what begins to occur is what's called the theory of learned helplessness. And he doesn't feel like that he has any out. He's helpless and there's no way out, and there's no one to help him. That begins to breathe. A behavioral theory of depression. So we have depression in our society as a significant challenge. And it gets worse and worse each and every year. In this past year has created so much so people in my profession end up getting more clients than fewer clients because of COVID. You know, and if they still have their insurance, then there they have their insurance paid for pay for it. Otherwise you have to look at how they're going to do it on their own. Sometimes it can't do it and they become worse, because if you isolated unable to do not making the resources that they used to, they can't take care of themselves. It can take you there, take care of their family and they're just totally stressed and traumatized. Does that make sense? Yeah, it's quite the rabbit hole. Absolutely I doctor Williams. I wanted to go back to the point about the talk therapy. Yes, because I wanted to address this whole concept about the multi generational trauma woo as a black man. What I've seen in our culture alot of times is this whole thought around. What happens in this house stays in this house and from that it has created the stigma of. Especially as black men or just black people's in general that we feel that if we talk we look weak or we don't believe in therapist, or if we see someone else in our culture that goes to a therapist or admits that they need therapy or they're in a mental state to where they are dealing with struggle, then they are frowned down upon normal speaking from my culture. And that's just something as a black man that I've always wondered. I'm so glad that we have this platform to happen, so let's. Talk about that, yeah? Multi generational trauma for black people. Is 400 years old? And it's continued generation by generation by generation by generation. Yeah, it was initially created. Because of slavery. Anne. By that, what I mean is. Black persons males females children. Had to learn to survive, not live. Yeah, and so the the challenge in slavery was. Uh, dis about these this dismissal of black males. And an elevation of black females within the slave tradition. So black folks became what's called a matriarchal society. Let it Rip was driven by the women. OK, the women maintain the family so forth and so on. In the 1950s, when America decided it was going to do AFDC aid for families with dependent children. Black women could get money to take care of their children only if the man was not in the household. Black male out of the household and it continued. The trauma black young male children keep looking around and they didn't see Dad. They just saw Mom and grandma. And so they began to have a sense that. There was nothing valuable about who they are. Multi generational trauma and multi generational depression has existed in black culture for eons. You go to Asian culture. Let's say you came from a traditional Chinese, Japanese, Korean family. And their historical values and perspectives about how you're supposed to be a. As a Korean child, but you came to America? And all of a sudden you have to balance Western culture with your own culture, and that often has created depression because the child wants to act in a certain way, but knows that's not going to be acceptable within the family. So the challenges with that. So if you come from an immigrant family or you come from a Muslim family, there are differences in how you must behave versus how you behave in a western society. So multi generational trauma has existed in all cultures. The challenge is that multi generational, trauma stops the ability to live and focuses only on the ability to survive. So when you look at black young men, black. Children today. Multi generational trauma continues to impact. Him in a significant way. And it creates depression. It creates anxiety. It creates a variety of other types of dysfunctional issues. We were talking about depression here, so so they are challenged to try and figure out where is joy. Where is beauty? Where is the sense of value? Where do I belong? How do I say I am a man? I am a boy, how do I see I'm a girl who doesn't have to manipulate to be who I am? Did you think about in black families we always hits historic, her Uncle Johnny's? A little touch? Don't worry bout him. You know Johnny had a mental health issue. But the family didn't look at that. They would always say go pray about it. So you had to go to the Black Church and sometimes the black pastors were not trained. To address mental dysfunctional issues, wow or you come from a rural family in your life. They don't look at that issue either. So middle health historically was designed for white folks. Even though there are significant challenges to. All other races and ethnicities. For example, in America. There are these groups that they worship snakes and they handle snakes and is considered by many in America to be a sickness. Whereas in India it's considered to be sacred. You know so. The different ways in which people. Look at the things that exist in their lives and how they're going to address it. Multi generational trauma continues to be a major issue within our society. Actually, for persons of color. So we have to look at how. We're going to address that. And create change. Now. I don't know if you wanted me to go down this path. But let's keep going part. Of the multi generational trauma. In cultures is based on the culture not having a sense. Of who they are. So there is what I call psychological invisibility. And that is at the individual. He's invisible to himself. Because he's trying to live up to a stereotype that was created by somebody else. Wow, so that's what my book is about and so that the. The challenge is. If society is said you supposed. To be like this, do you like Mike be like Johnny but you don't look like Johnny. You don't look like MM, you don't think like that, but that's what you're supposed to emulate. You lose the sense of you. And you always trying to live up. To the stereotype that somebody else has and you never have a sense of who you are. That creates a depressive state. So you're in that depressive state until you begin to say. I don't have to live up to that stereotype. I can be me. I can pick you up right now. Great if you have young gapers since we're trying to come out. Their entire historical. Perspective about being who they are is initially living 2 lives. I like that everybody thinks they know. In a life today, they're trying to understand about themselves. And only when they get to the. Point that they can be comfortable and have enough ego. Strength to say I am who I am. Can they come out and begin to shift the paradigm statement with all their lives now the church is often been anathema to their families, have often been anathema to that his family say, Oh my God, what did you do? What did I do? I didn't create this chat. I will address that. All those types of things begin to occur so. In terms of the topic that we're talking about repression. Is an unbelievable challenge for all of us. And we have to look at how do we overcome that? By focusing on ourselves, we talk therapy medication to combinations of the two. Three groups of persons will be worked through and talk to the challenges that we have with one another. I mean. In different types of things. Sometimes it's about exercise. People are able to break the depression cycle by exercise, swimming a mile, a day running, doing exercise at the gym where they keep themselves feeling better about today are. All those things are steps that persons have taken to try and address depression. And it's it's just a really, really, really difficult challenge that people have to try and understand who they are. At the worst part of it. If one can't handle their depression, suicide becomes a challenge. And so psychologists have to look at a suicide assessment. From individuals to try and determine what's really going on so they can prevent. Some of those things that exist. Honey. For example, 68% of the people who commit suicide. It's not their first attempt. They tried it multiple times. Initially they tried it as a sign of help. Help me. Well, that didn't work. That sense of focus misses helplessness takes over. And then perhaps succeed. So we have to look at all the things that exist around depressing mood disorders that make our lives more difficult or more difficult to understand and participate in. Anet as you talk about it from a leadership perspective. Organizations change effectively because they are able to balance cognition and emotion. If you don't pay attention to the emotion of your people. You lose them. So you have to be able to not only understand what's going on cognitively. But what's going on emotionally? And how do you balance the two? The leaders job is about empowering. The manager's job is about completing the tasks. So in doing so, the manager has to realistically look at. What do I understand about my people that I'm asking to do things often they don't do that. The leaders get uncomfortable with the managers are not doing and they step down to a management role and they lose their leadership process where they're supposed to empower people. Help people be creative. Bring out the best of each and every person to provide success for themselves. An successful the organization. So we struggle with that type of issue. In today's marketplace? He is concerned about diversity, inclusion, equity, equality and belonging. The real issue there is belonging. And the challenge becomes. In businesses. Do we create a space for people to belong? When we create or do we create a space for people only to perform? What's important, what do we value? In families, do we create a space for individuationis? For the person to be who they are and allow them to be different from the family, yet still valued and loved by the family. You're gay kids were thrown out all the time, each and every day by their parents because they're not with their parents believed. Your black kids who don't have parents saying you need to be home. You need to do your homework. No, you don't need to be on. The street corner. So you don't need to do this set of the other. We have black kids who raising themselves when he raised by other kids and so. The ability to be successful to see themselves as whole and complete is often stifled. By the lack of. Effective parenting and depression begins to sit in. So in all of these situations, whether it's a company. Whether it's the. Family, whether it's the community, whether it's the school, the same types of issues arise for children and for adults. Men, women, boys and girls all have the challenge of depressive situations, and it's our job as as professionals to help them work through that. See that, understand that and move beyond that. And it's very difficult. Absolutely. John, did you have any more questions for Doctor Williams? You know that you had mentioned. I saw this quote once from Will Smith. He said that a parent's job is to be like a gardener with their kids and it's to create the environment for them to grow and blossom into what they are meant to be. Essentially what they are designed to be, not for you to tell them what they should do, and you had mentioned. Children who don't have zero direction as far as you know, don't you never told when to be home not to do your homework? Would you find it? I would almost be rather be overly told what to do than not, but on the flip side I've seen the opposite to where I've seen. My dad's physically like physically abrasive with their children because. Over like you know, my kid, my son plays Lacrosse an that's not, it's a. It's an expensive sport to place, but that way, so there's certain kinds of kids that traditionally play, and I get that. But I've seen dads like. They physically harm their son for not performing properly on a lacrosse field when they're only. Eight, you know what I mean, and I think to myself like my son plays. In the challenge, the challenge that you're describing. Unfortunately. Is apparent living out their dreams through their child. Yeah, child doesn't perform the way the parent believes they would have performed. The child is chastise and it's unfortunate. But it happens. That maybe? It is not an athlete. Give me an amazing engineer. One day it could. Be the role of that could be the role. Of the coach. Say to the parrot. You need to back up and here's what. This is the harm you doing to your chat which out came out here, bright and light and having fun and laughing. And now your child, who said he has his head down all the time because he feels like he's going to disappoint his dad. And it makes him sad because he can't play like everybody else please, so it gets more and more depressed. You need to back off and let your child be a child. And it's sometimes hard for parents to hear that, and they've been situations that parents have gotten into major fights on the field over what their children are doing and other parents and what they say. Uhm? It's really interesting if you go to some children's sports events and watch the parents and you just shakes. His head, it seems so silly, but it's a real thing. There states that now have laws against touching officials because so many parents have physically harmed officials because they get the felony. It's been that bad. But anyways, I would almost rather be on the side of the dead. Who won't leave me alone then never being told but at the same time I've seen. It had been both ways. That's very interesting. I think yeah, sure. Mr Parrot is prepared to understand. Raising a child is a process of creating balance. It's not just one way or the other, it's a combination that needs to occur. Where were fluid rather than static. Really assessing the child is and will fluid with helping the child develop as he needs to be rather than developing as we want it to be. Pretty good, see the child and your honor. The child that needs a child is and help instill in the child the values and beliefs. That make him a good human being. Then, given his wings and that imply always knowing that she failed, you can always come home. In two and two, often that's not the case. Absolutely. Doctor Williams, where can our unscripted audience connect with you, whether that be on social media are working? They buy some of your products. I know you had. Mentioned that you have written. Eight books in my books they can get at Amazon. Just have to put in Doctor Lloyd, Syrians in the books are coming out. Uhm? There are number of ways in which they can get in through email at [email protected] which is Orgs. [email protected] or they can get me a Doc DOC at rustik.com or OST ch.com. You know, I don't remember my email that transcontinental, but if you get it from Doctor Son, doctor, something give you a way to get in touch with me. As well, sure. Let's see. I thought the other two. There's anybody listening and they feel like they need to talk to somebody. Just reach out. We're happy if you missed an email or something. We're happy. And stay and my. Phone number is 602300. 1180 No, there you go. That's way better. Anything else about to give you? Doctor Williams again, thank you so much for coming on. This has been a thought provoking, incredible conversation, yes. Thank you so much information wisdom that you gave and I believe people are going to be encouraged and blessed by this and somebody is going to find the strength they need to continue on to make it through their journey. As always, those of you that watch and listen to this continue to subscribe to our YouTube channel. Their unscripted authentic leadership. Follow us on our various social media platforms. Stream the podcast, Leave us a review, leave a thumbs up. Follow Doctor Williams on his the transcontinental university connect with him, and he's even given his number where you can reach out. Connect with him. You could connect with us via our website unscripted-leadership.com. We thank you. We pray that you be the leader that God has called you to be. As always, we're here to build bridges and not walls bridges connect, walls divide. Until next time. God bless you. Take care.