Elisabeth De Dobbeleer - Head of Sales Partner Organisation, Europe, Middle East, Africa & Russia at Cisco

Elisabeth, a Harvard educated lawyer, now leads Cisco's Partner Sales Organisation for Europe, Middle East, Africa and Russia. Starting her career amidst the Y2K bubble, Elisabeth developed her skills watching leaders in action. As someone who embraces technology, Elisabeth who started her career in Europe, has also lived and worked in Asia and Africa. With her core leadership values driven by authenticity, Elisabeth looks for eagerness and ambition in the leaders of tomorrow.

Transcript

Leadership in the Digital Age

Elisabeth De Dobbeleer – Head of Sales Partner Organisation, Europe, Middle East, Africa & Russia at Cisco

[00:00:01.460] - Matthew Smith

Welcome to our series, Leadership in the Digital Age. I have the pleasure of welcoming today, Elisabeth De Dobbeleer, Cisco's vice president and leader of the sales partner organisation for Europe, the Middle East, Africa and Russia, EMEAR. In this role, Elizabeth is responsible for developing strategic growth initiatives and transformational programs to positively impact Cisco's partner business as Cisco evolves its portfolio and invests in customer lifecycle management. Elizabeth moved into this role from her previous post as Cisco's vice president and deputy general counsel for EMEAR.

[00:00:40.220] - Matthew Smith

An experienced international leader during her nearly 20 years at Cisco, Elizabeth has held a variety of regional and global roles across its legal, business operations, and services teams. In addition to her role leading the EMEAR partner organization, Elizabeth is also the executive sponsor for several key customers, as well as the Kenya East Africa region. Originally from Belgium, where she's currently based. Elizabeth also spent eight years working in international roles from both Hong Kong and Egypt.

[00:01:13.110] - Matthew Smith

Roles that included the head of operations to Cisco's Middle East and Africa business and the head of legal services for Cisco service provider business in Asia Pacific, Japan and China. A graduate of Harvard Law School and a Fulbright scholar. Elizabeth also speaks several languages including English, Flemish, Dutch, French and German. Welcome, Elizabeth. 

[00:01:35.440] - Elisabeth De Dobbeleer

Thank you so much, Matthew, it's great to be here with you. 

[00:01:39.610] - Matthew Smith

So getting right to getting right to it, early in your career.

[00:01:44.670] - Matthew Smith

You're a fresh graduate from Harvard Law School, starting out, wanting to change the world. What were your goals? What did you want it all to go?

[00:01:53.760] - Elisabeth De Dobbeleer

Well, thanks, Matt. Well, often people ask me if you need to have a plan. And I will always say I didn't necessarily have this long term plan on where I want to end up or who I want to be. I do remember that about 20 years ago when I started my career, I was very motivated to work really hard and I was very committed to what I was doing. So I started as a law firm in Belgium. It was the last few years before 2000.

[00:02:23.850] - Elisabeth De Dobbeleer

So in the middle of the I.T. bubble that didn't burst and worrying about Y2K. So I loved all of that. And I was very passionate, very committed and very hardworking.

[00:02:35.130] - Elisabeth De Dobbeleer

I think in those days, also, I was very inspired by the people I worked with. So I liked learning from people. And I liked watching leaders in action.

[00:02:47.280] - Elisabeth De Dobbeleer

So no specific plan, but a lot of ambition, a very committed, very open minded. And yes, I think that's a summary of how I felt and what I was thinking about 20 years ago.

[00:03:03.710] - Matthew Smith

Great. And so you mentioned that you Y2K, the technology bubble. I mean, looking back over your career, there's been quite a few technology trends. I mean, we've seen the mobile phone go to the smartphone, the fax machine, go to email, go to small phones, go to digital business applications. Can you look back and perhaps give the listeners some views on the impact that these technological changes had at the time and as they've matured? Has that changed?

[00:03:34.500] - Elisabeth De Dobbeleer

Well, thank you, Matthew. So I actually was thinking about that yesterday, preparing for this, and I thought I had my first email account when I studied at Harvard Law School, which is 97, 98. And from then when I started at a law firm, we were still using fax.

[00:03:53.120] - Elisabeth De Dobbeleer

So I think in those days, most of our communications with our clients was over fax.

[00:03:58.290] - Elisabeth De Dobbeleer

But thinking about it now that I rapidly changed into e-mail and then almost to only e-mail and then now I think we are at the stage where we don't use email that much anymore. We are using collaboration tools.

[00:04:12.290] - Elisabeth De Dobbeleer

Obviously, I work for Cisco, so we use WebEx as a platform for everything.

[00:04:17.750] - Elisabeth De Dobbeleer

And then I also was wondering, especially in the last few months, thinking about the impact of Covid 19 and everyone going virtual, that my my full days right now are very much about video calling.

[00:04:31.820] - Elisabeth De Dobbeleer

I probably spend most of my working hours just on video talking to people.

[00:04:36.950] - Elisabeth De Dobbeleer

So I think that's probably the biggest shift in terms of how I adapted to it. I think it all went quite naturally and smoothly. I remember that the biggest shift was going from fax to email, but after that, I can't remember having ever had any issues going along with the technology. Obviously, I do work at Cisco, so we've always been very fortunate working with and using our best in class technology.

[00:05:05.320] - Matthew Smith

So if we take the technology side and obviously technology is an enabler. But, you know, you've been leading and managing people for most of your career. And people talk a lot about leadership traits and management books keep developing new formula. When I started out, it was all about actual incentive orientated leadership. What do you feel makes an effective leader? And what's your view on leadership change throughout your career? Yes and no. I think initially when I shifted from being an individual contributor, as they say, to managing other people.

[00:05:42.200] - Elisabeth De Dobbeleer

I do remember very clearly that the basic principle of treat other people the way you want to be treated is definitely a very, very effective guidance. And so I've I've kept that with me all along the years and I think trust, respect for others listening.

[00:06:01.640] - Elisabeth De Dobbeleer

Also, I think listening goes a long, long way. Authenticity as well. Obviously, as a leader, you sometimes have to make really tough decisions, including letting people go or helping them to move to other roles.

[00:06:14.900] - Elisabeth De Dobbeleer

And all of that assumes and requires authenticity and trust. So I think that's a huge thing that that is essential to any effective leader.

[00:06:26.300] - Elisabeth De Dobbeleer

But then beyond that, I think in terms of what I've learned along the years, is that when your gut feel tells you that something is not right, you should just follow it. I think sometimes I've hesitated or I've taken too long to take certain decisions that actually I knew quite early on were the right ones. And so I think this this idea about not hesitating to make tough decisions, that's an important one as well. You need to have the guts.

[00:06:54.510] - Elisabeth De Dobbeleer

I think leadership does come with guts as well.

[00:06:57.230] - Elisabeth De Dobbeleer

You have to have the guts and the courage to take the decisions when you have to take them. And I think that's really important. And then finally, people often ask me, how can you be successful in your career? And this is something my grandfather used to say, which is actually a Greek saying, I noticed Neotel. Right. So no, yourself, the more you know yourself and the better of, you know, what your talent is and what your strengths are.

[00:07:25.970] - Elisabeth De Dobbeleer

And the more you enhance and develop those and look for opportunities that allow you to excel based on what you uniquely can do very well. The more successful you will be, because the more you will enjoy what you do and the more you will be good at it as well.

[00:07:41.840] - Elisabeth De Dobbeleer

So I think knowing yourself and being true to yourself is also very important. No, thanks, but I think particularly that authenticity, that lack of not hesitating and following your instincts. I think obviously those are key things that people really take to heart. But building on that, I suppose, a little bit is that you have been managing and leading people for quite some time now and obviously in different scenarios as well. You've worked in Hong Kong, you've worked in Cairo.

[00:08:11.370] - Matthew Smith

You've worked across completely different segments of all of operations. Obviously, with that comes hard decisions. Could you give me a couple of examples of really hard decisions you've had to make? And at the time when you did them, how did you manage their outcomes?

[00:08:29.050] - Elisabeth De Dobbeleer

I think hard decisions are the ones that impact other people. So I've had to along the years when I took over a team of when I was managing a team, sometimes decide that a certain person in the team wasn't the right fit for the role or for the team. And then I think that's typically quite tough because it talks to you as a human being and you are aware that you are impacting another person's employment and hence livelihood. So doing that, I think those are probably the toughest decisions I've had to make.

[00:09:03.160] - Elisabeth De Dobbeleer

But I still think that they are really important because at the end, everybody, I think in the workplace wants to have a sense of person's purpose and wants to feel valued and impactful. And when the job is not the right fit or the team or the role is not the right fit, then as a leader you have the obligation to talk to the person about that openly and ideally help the person to find another role. Or if that's not possible.

[00:09:31.780] - Elisabeth De Dobbeleer

Make an exit in a way that is respectful of that person. An idea, and it helps the person to find a new role. So over the years, I've had to terminate employment of people in my team, but I'm quite proud of dissent, of the fact that afterwards I offered to give them references and have helped them find rules that were actually much better for them and where they were able to thrive afterwards. Yes, and I think obviously that's you know, as you say, it's very important, it's that authenticity and that integrity of character that you've mentioned before.

[00:10:05.140] - Matthew Smith

And having talked now a little bit about that new technology and then a little bit about leadership. Let's talk a little bit now about how the two kind of intersect. Do you see technology as a tool or do you see it for a critical element for today's leaders hope, you know, perhaps somewhere in between? 

[00:10:24.680] - Elisabeth De Dobbeleer

That's a great question, Matthew, and I think, again, against the context of Covid 19. Is it a tool? Is it an enabler?

[00:10:33.650] - Elisabeth De Dobbeleer

I would say absolutely, yes. The world wouldn't have been able to shift to virtual everything without technology. And we've all been working possibly harder than ever before. I think a lot of people are saying the last few months have been really intense. So I think is it essential, an enabler? Absolutely, yes. As I was thinking about this question, I think it does come with a lot of discipline in the sense that, for example, right to the typical multitasking during a video call where it's much easier to be distracted and to do something else whilst you're in the meeting, which is not possible in a physical meeting.

[00:11:12.880] - Elisabeth De Dobbeleer

So I think technology is great. But you have to have a discipline, as in when you are engaging with someone overview. It still requires you to be present in the meeting and listen. And if you're not able to do that, it's better not to be in the meeting. Multitasking doesn't work whether you are connected with your phone or over the video or doing emails at the same time. It still doesn't work. So I think the basic human principles of interaction with people when they when they want to have a meaningful conversation, they should be all in and aware and listening to the other person.

[00:11:49.570] - Elisabeth De Dobbeleer

Then that still applies when you're on a video call are using technology instead of being in physical environment.

[00:11:57.970] - Elisabeth De Dobbeleer

But I would argue that I started a new rule just three, three months and a bit ago, which was in the first week of my company going into global lockdown and also the first week of lockdown in my home country in Belgium. So I've been doing a new role which covers EMEA, as you explained from my home office. And I would argue that I've been really successful and effective at it. But it doesn't take away that you're still, you know, the basic human principles of relationship and interaction apply.

[00:12:29.950] - Elisabeth De Dobbeleer

Also using technology. Yeah, and I think that has been a across the series has been a critical feedback from everybody, it's that you have to be present, as you said, and you have to respect the other person in the meeting. 

[00:12:44.130] - Matthew Smith

As you said, it's very easy to be distracted or to get distracted in today's kind of emoji world. And then thinking about that, of course, is that because technology's changed so much, particularly in the last three years when we think back, what are the three things, do you think, in the last three years that have told you the most about how technology has changed and how it's intersected with business?

[00:13:08.450] - Elisabeth De Dobbeleer

And I think one thing that I find really special is that things that a couple of years ago we all said would never work. Talk about talking to a chat bot when doing online shopping, are doing everything from your home office, are doing difficult meetings over video. All those things have kind of evaporated.

[00:13:34.630] - Elisabeth De Dobbeleer

I think we're all now used to talking to a chat bot when we buy things online or when we are talking to or trying to get something done in, you know, from the human resource department or downloading a forum when we're dealing with our local municipality and things like that. So I think the human behaviour has adapted quite a bit in doing a lot of things online and in a virtual world.

[00:14:04.810] - Elisabeth De Dobbeleer

And I think we we should not underestimate how quickly we can all adapt and adjust, not seeing again. And based on what I said before that it got.

[00:14:13.870] - Elisabeth De Dobbeleer

It comes with discipline and continuing to be mindful of the essence of the human interaction. So as long as we are respectful of that. I think technology can do a huge amount of things and we should not be close minded of the exponential possibilities.

[00:14:30.580] - Matthew Smith

Yes. You know, thinking about obviously the development of technology we've talked about is that the talent of tomorrow is also a lot different from when you and I started and all working careers. I mean, they certainly are now born digital natives. There's many new languages. Like you said, people are not afraid to talk to Jackpot's anymore. There's a note, an emoji for everything. What do you look for in new talent into the workplace? New management positions or or those who are about to be promoted as leaders so we can never end zone for leadership a little bit down the road.

[00:15:07.580] - Matthew Smith

What what is it that stands out for you? For those people? And how would you sort of identify them as leaders of tomorrow?

[00:15:16.660] - Elisabeth De Dobbeleer

I think only one thing, really. It's eagerness, hunger to make an impact and ambition. I think that's all that matters because you can learn so many things and things change. Anyway, I had a couple of years and I had a rule supporting the cloud business in Cisco. And I happened to say to the leader, not the time. I said, well, to be honest, I've worked at Cisco for the last few years. So I don't necessarily know that much about Cloud.

[00:15:44.140] - Elisabeth De Dobbeleer

And he said it doesn't matter because even those who stacked it with cloud in the last few years, they are still being disrupted in adapting. So I hired you not for your knowledge of cloud. I have you because of your character. So I think that's really the most important thing, is the eagerness and hunger to continuously learn and make an impact. I think that that's what I typically look for.

[00:16:08.110] - Elisabeth De Dobbeleer

I don't look for 20 years of experience in whatever topic I like to look for, for that character.

[00:16:15.590] - Matthew Smith

That is I mean, I think an essential element of this is that because people said, you know, before you could have a job for life and now we might have a job every three years and maybe two or three different careers. But throughout that, of course, you're a woman in technology. And there are not that many women in technology deployment, despite what people think these days. So how do you find that diversity of teams and the diversity of views plays in sort of for the talent of tomorrow, but also and how you also look at when you build your own teams as well?

[00:16:50.740] - Elisabeth De Dobbeleer

Well, I think it's a critical and an essential thing that actually leads to what I said before, and if you want to have a high performing team with ambitious and hungry people in it, then it has to be diverse as well.

[00:17:03.440] - Elisabeth De Dobbeleer

So you have to best the best possible informed outcome for decisions and perspectives and viewpoints and to building diverse teams is really essential to have high performing teams. I think Cisco's when we had our new CEO, well, he's not so new anymore. He's in his fourth year now. Chuck Robbins, he made a very explicit statement having a diverse 50 50 gender diverse leadership team. And then my own boss right now is also the president of DeVita, and he's also a woman.

[00:17:39.690] - Elisabeth De Dobbeleer

Actually, it's the first time in my career that I am working for a woman, which tells you and but I think that diversity of perspective, not just gender, is just Canticle to be able to adapt in an agile way to the changing environment.

[00:17:57.350] - Matthew Smith

With that sort of changing environment, I'm sure that you're asked to speak at schools or to university students or to, you know, groups of young people who are sort of setting out in the world, as it were. Looking back when, you know, business leaders spoke to you when you were at Harvard. Put yourself in their shoes. And what advice would you give to those aspiring leaders today? I mean, we've talked a little bit about, obviously, authenticity and eagerness.

[00:18:24.680] - Matthew Smith

Is there anything else that kind of springs out that you would tell them as they move into the workplace how they can differentiate themselves?

[00:18:31.880] - Elisabeth De Dobbeleer

Well, I would say three things.

[00:18:33.320] - Elisabeth De Dobbeleer

I think the first one would be all of us have these kind of little voices in our heads, these mental blocks. If you want that, tell us you will never be able to do this or that because.

[00:18:47.510] - Elisabeth De Dobbeleer

And so I think the first thing you need to do is remove doors or at least be self-aware. I think it's really important to be convinced that you can do anything you want. I think this is especially applicable to women. I've had one an enlightening, in a way, career development discussion with a colleague of mine who is a very effective female account manager. And she said to me that 10 years earlier she had just decided she was never going to, quote, unquote, make a career because she didn't want to be a bad mother.

[00:19:21.350] - Elisabeth De Dobbeleer

So I think and she was really shocked when she found out that I have two children and I would like to think I'm not a bad mother. So she I think those self limiting beliefs are very dangerous because they may limit the possibilities of what you are able or wanting to come to become.

[00:19:42.320] - Elisabeth De Dobbeleer

Then I think the second one is you need to be back to the being self-aware.

[00:19:47.810] - Elisabeth De Dobbeleer

And the more you are aware of what you enjoy doing, what you're good at doing, and then look for those opportunities that allow you to show and display those things and further develop them. I think that's also really important.

[00:20:01.760] - Elisabeth De Dobbeleer

And then third, find a great boss. I think there's not a process around, to be honest. You were one of them for me, Matthew. But I think that, you know, I've had I've now worked about 20 years or so and I've had, I would think, probably 18 bosses.

[00:20:19.010] - Elisabeth De Dobbeleer

I would say I've had three really good ones, a lot of average ones, and then a couple of really bad ones. So I think finding a great boss, especially early in career, is very, very important. And often when you speak to people, they will relate to that bosses in the beginning of their career and help them to accelerate.

[00:20:40.510] - Elisabeth De Dobbeleer

So I would say that's also really important. 

[00:20:44.150] - Matthew Smith

Yes, I'd have to definitely agree with you on that last for me. So a quick thought. One word answer. Leaders made or born? 

[00:20:55.040] - Elisabeth De Dobbeleer

And tough stuff, personally board. 

[00:20:58.970] - Matthew Smith

Oh, okay. Any thoughts on on backing that up? 

[00:21:05.810] - Elisabeth De Dobbeleer

Yeah, I find it very difficult, but I think there's something like natural leadership, the ability to rally people behind you.

[00:21:15.080] - Elisabeth De Dobbeleer

And I think some yes, some of that is born. I think you can learn being a manager. But the talent of rallying people behind you.

[00:21:25.800] - Elisabeth De Dobbeleer

I would. Yeah, it's a tough one. Matthew, you made me choose.

[00:21:32.450] - Matthew Smith

So an even tougher one that as a final question, you know, we've we've sort of talked around Covid 19 on a couple of the questions, but it's difficult not to bring it up as something that's really probably going to be a once in a generation, once in a lifetime experience for many people. And so for the workplace of tomorrow and post Covid 19 and hopefully that post comes sooner rather than later. What do you think coming out of this is going to influence your leadership style?

[00:22:01.520] - Matthew Smith

And and how would you use that to mentor the leaders of tomorrow, who perhaps in 10 years time, you know, that they're not even yet at university and they come into the workplace and they've gone through this, but not in in a business environment. 

[00:22:16.470] - Elisabeth De Dobbeleer

Well, what I thought about that is that, you know, we need to learn and we need to think and we need to get good at whistling past the ten troops in a virtual world.

[00:22:27.830] - Elisabeth De Dobbeleer

I think that's the key. How do we engage with each other and connect with each other in that virtual world?

[00:22:34.940] - Elisabeth De Dobbeleer

Because I think it's gonna be unavoidable in the future not to do that. Now, the good thing about the virtual world is that it does solve some other issues we have in the world today. Right, whether it's climate change or the mobility issues and the like.

[00:22:51.350] - Elisabeth De Dobbeleer

So I think the more effective we are about how to how to build those trusted relationships in a virtual world, the big tickets will be.

[00:23:01.110] - Matthew Smith

Yes, I think that is true. I do really thank you for the time today. My big takeaways have been about really treating people with respect, following your instincts, creating a well, I suppose, a climate of trust in your teams and across the organisations you work in and obviously finding a good boss early in your career that can help you along the way. So, Elisabeth, I'd really like to thank you and obviously wish you the best with the rest of what's left of Covid 19 and managing remotely, but really above all.

[00:23:35.060] - Matthew Smith

Thank you for your time today. It's been a very, very insightful. 

[00:23:38.680] - Elisabeth De Dobbeleer

Thank you so much, Matthew.