Caspar Herzberg, President Middle East and Africa, Schneider Electric

Caspar has lived and worked in the Middle East for most of his career. Now President of Schneider Electric’s business for the Middle East and Africa, Caspar, who thought hard about becoming a full time army officer, eventually decided to look at the business world and started his career as a consultant with Accenture. With his core leadership skills focussed around doing the right thing, Caspar continually seeks to innovate, using a diverse, multi-generational approach within his teams to ideate new ideas on how to disrupt the status quo.

Transcript

Leadership in the Digital Age

Caspar Herzberg, President Middle East and Africa, Schneider Electric

[00:00:00.860] - Matthew Smith

Hello, all as part of our series, Leadership in the Digital Age. We're joined today by Caspar Herzberg, Schneider Electric's, president for Middle East and Africa. Caspar manages Schneider Electric operations across more than 70 countries with more than 10000 employees throughout the Middle East, Africa and Central Asia. Schneider Electric's Focus is delivering integrated efficiency solutions, combining energy, automation and software in power management and industrial automation systems. Prior to joining Schneider, Caspar was vice president of Cisco's consulting services for Asia-Pacific.

[00:00:42.960] - Matthew Smith

Having previously held executive positions within Cisco and Accenture. With more than 20 years experience in the industry, Caspar is recognized as a thought leader in smart cities, digital transformation and the Internet of Things. He's a published author of the book Smart Cities Digital Nation's. And recognized by Forbes among the top 100 executives in the Arab world. Caspar is on the board of trustees of the New Cities Foundation and served as an advisor on the city of Chongqing's  International Economic Advisory Council in the People's Republic of China.

[00:01:25.740] - Matthew Smith

In addition to his career in technology, Caspar has also served as an officer in the German army and holds a master's degree in international politics from the University of London. A bachelor's degree in Arabic and modern Middle Eastern studies from St. Anne's College, University of Oxford. Having grown up in Egypt, in addition to being a fluent Arabic speaker, he's also fluent in German, French and English. Welcome, Caspar. 

[00:01:55.230] - Caspar Herzberg

Welcome, Matt. And thank you for having me.

[00:01:58.610] - Matthew Smith

So getting back to the start of your career, you've just left university, setting out in the world. What were your goals? Where did you want it all to go? 

[00:02:09.510] - Caspar Herzberg

I had at the very beginning actually quite limited goals. I wanted to join the Army. I actually returned to the Army after university and spending one summer in the army again as a reserve officer made me rethink that. As I realized that the more senior you were to become in the military, you would in the end be serving in a massive bureaucracy, which at the time wasn't that appealing. So I looked at business. I wasn't as clear cut or clear focused as one would expect. I initially looked at banks until I realized that my mathematical skills needed brushing up.

[00:02:59.450] - Caspar Herzberg

And then I looked at consultancies. And Andersen Consulting at the time was the first where I struck a chord with the people interviewing me. And I then kind of almost by accident, fell into the world of technology. So that was not really my goal from the very beginning. It was more chance, really, that led me to Andersen, which of course was to become Accenture and become a a global consulting powerhouse.

[00:03:33.770] - Caspar Herzberg

So that's how it started. 

[00:03:35.470] - Matthew Smith

Throughout your career, there's been a lot of new technology trends. We've seen the mobile phone go from a brick to a smartphone. We've seen dial up Internet, go to broadband, go to Internet everywhere. And even smartphones go to now digital applications. Can you look back and perhaps give the listeners some views on the impact these technologies had at the time? And as the technologies have changed, how that impact has changed? 

[00:04:04.210] - Caspar Herzberg

Absolutely. So when when I started with Andersen Consulting, it was really the time of the large process re-engineering projects and the roll-out of enterprise resource planning software such as SAP or JD Edwards and others at the time.

[00:04:23.650] - Caspar Herzberg

And the predominant architecture was, client and server, which in a way is not that different from the cloud architecture that we have today. At the end of the day, clearly, the technology industry morphed into a very powerful force in business for business. A driver of companies adopting business change. Yet at the very basic good companies, good leaders have always looked at what do they want to achieve and what tools do they need to achieve that? And the goals, I mean, have always been the same. They have been to, of course, make money. So turn a a decent profit and do that with as little resources as, as you need to apply. So the technology industry, in that sense, the different the different technology transitions that we've had over the past two decades have always been seen or sold as a way of of making people reach their goals faster.

[00:05:48.500] - Caspar Herzberg

Business leaders reached their goal faster. And now the issue, of course, has been that the technology industry itself then very quickly became a very self-serving industry, meaning that they they wanted to sell more technology to more companies and more people. And with a very, very strong marketing spin, that means that we've talked about endless technology, inflection points, some real, some not real over the past two two decades. Clearly the ones that really have changed visibly, people's interaction with each other, companies interaction with each other is the mobility revolution, which happened when you could put the processing power or an enormous amount of processing power into someone's palm, into someone's hand, and create a way of, of empowering individual contributors to to a level that, you know, was really impossible or to to even imagine  15, 20 years ago.

[00:07:00.320] - Caspar Herzberg

So for me, that's probably the biggest change in technology. Ultimately, cloud is nothing but a logical result of of the mobility revolution, because ultimately, as you are mobile, as a person, as a businessman, as a contributor, as an individual contributor, you need to have access to the data that is stored somewhere else. So what I think we're going to see over the next 15, 20 years is probably a continued expansion of the infrastructure that allows people to continue interacting with each other, interacting with their businesses this way.

[00:07:44.010] - Matthew Smith

You talk there. I think quite clearly that it's an enabler for leadership. Now, people talk a lot about leadership traits and management books keep developing new formulas. You've been in the military. You've been a consultant. And now obviously you've worked in industry for quite some time in senior positions. What do you feel makes an effective leader? And has your view on leadership changed over your career? 

[00:08:11.440] - Caspar Herzberg

It definitely has changed. At the beginning, when you start, you believe that one believes that leadership is about forcing people to follow you, exerting strength, exerting power. As as you go through life, you realize that it is really about convincing people to follow you. Convincing people to put their fate, the fate of their business, the fate of their family, of providing for their family into your hands. And what grows in one is the sense of responsibility, the sense of responsibility for your own family as you have one, but then also for the family of your of your employees, of your customers, of your partners and the ecosystem that you ultimately lead and are responsible for. So I think that takes some time to.

[00:09:11.400] - Caspar Herzberg

To understand, which is also why I mean, many people say that empires tend to be won by young men but successfully managed and grown and grown to prosper by men and women in their middle age onwards, which is somewhat at odds with the culture of youth that, for example, the the US digital industry likes to likes to portray.

[00:09:41.580] - Caspar Herzberg

Now, you asked me about what are what are my values? I think authenticity and and honesty as a leader are probably the most important traits. If you combine them with strength, strength of your convictions. In other words, you have to, of course, first of all, have a plan and you have to whether you build that plan out of experience or out of listening to others, but then you have to be very honest and very, very clear about what it is you want to achieve and why and why that is good and bad for the people that that you lead.

[00:10:27.210] - Caspar Herzberg

And I think if you are not able to articulate that, clearly to yourself and to others, then, you know, then you  are not a good leader. And then, of course, you have to have the strength to carry it through the strength that your convictions are right. While keeping in mind that only fools persist with errors. And the strength of yourself, the physical strength and the mental strength to resist the pressures that will try to to force you to to change course.

[00:11:04.800] - Matthew Smith

Leadership can obviously be sometimes a little bit of a lonely business as well. I mean, you've been managing and leading people for quite some time now. Obviously, decisions have to be made, sometimes really hard decisions. Can you give us a couple of examples of really hard decisions that you've made and how you've managed their outcomes? 

[00:11:27.500] - Caspar Herzberg

Well, I think taking responsibility for something that hasn't worked is probably one of the hardest things to do. Doing so publicly, resisting the temptation to sweep it under the carpet and articulating what, you as the leader has been learned from the failure, articulating that publicly, or at least to those that that need to make decisions is is very, very hard.

[00:12:05.310] - Caspar Herzberg

And in 2009, I was leading a large business development initiative in Saudi Arabia, going after the what was called at the time, the new economic cities, a set of mega projects that the then government was building or intending to build. And because of a number of self-inflicted mistakes, but also some other outside forces, I was not successful. The team I led was not successful. And I had to make a choice, whether I would clearly say that and withdraw from this opportunity. And clearly say that to a leadership of the company at the time,

[00:12:55.080] - Caspar Herzberg

It was Cisco Systems that was themselves very heavily invested in making it work or sweeping it under the carpet, potentially spending more money, more time in the full knowledge that it wasn't going to work out. So I choose  the former. I was very clear and I probably, as a result, took a lot of egg in my face, but also saved the company a lot of future issues.

[00:13:23.370] - Caspar Herzberg

Now, that was not an easy thing to do in a in a culture that was not necessarily very forgiving to people who make mistakes. I did get another chance to be successful and I was then successful in a similar project in Korea. So it all worked out well. But net net, that was a in retrospect, quite a brave decision to make.

[00:13:52.680] - Caspar Herzberg

Now, this is one where I made a decision myself about ultimately me. I think that's probably where one needs to start. Clearly, later, you make a lot of decisions on other people. And frankly, one of the hardest things to do is performance management. And it does not become easier, the more experienced you become, performance management, fair performance management and separating the positive or negative personal feelings towards an employee, a group of employees from an objective analysis of their results is always difficult. And I think being aware of that, year after year, month after months and acting accordingly and acting with fairness is frankly a big responsibility that a leader has.

[00:14:55.680] - Matthew Smith

And obviously, you know, as you said, it's a lot to do with strength of character and believing in yourself. And, you know, having talked a little bit about leadership and also a little bit about your thoughts on how technology has changed. Let's talk a little bit now about the intersection of the two. I mean, do you see, as a leader of more than 10000 people across 70 plus countries, that it's a critical element? Technology is a critical element for today's leaders? Or is it just a tool or perhaps somewhere in between? 

[00:15:27.840] - Caspar Herzberg

It is a critical tool. Technology is a critical tool, but it is a tool. It ultimately serves, you, it serves the people, it serves the business, it serves the community to bring you together like telepresence, like video conferencing, to connect you. To connect you where you need to be connected to. Now, there are a number of risks, I believe, that come from the overuse of technology and over-reliance on technology. And I do believe that increasingly technology lends itself to micromanaging. And also for employees delegating responsibility up. And that's not what you want. You want to have empowered leaders on the ground. Empowered leaders making decisions while understanding the bigger context and the strategy of where you want to go to. The more you micromanage them, the more you interfere and you can, today with technology, I mean, be with your team almost 24/7.

[00:16:47.510] - Caspar Herzberg

I think that, that just leads to concentrating decision making, concentrating authority, in your hands. And ultimately, especially the larger and more diversified your business is, not just across many countries like in my case, but also across many different business models. The more likely you will make mistakes. So I'm a big believer in, Yes, in connecting, in being there when you need to be there. I'm a big believer in those interactions that you have to have them on video conferencing to have them in high definition to have them with immersive technology to really get a good feeling for the conversation. So I prioritized quality over over the quantity of of interactions. But I'm also a big believer, and this is actually the philosophy of Schneider Electric to be a global company, but at the same time, to have very strong local leaders, local operations and local champions. And you are there to support them using technology, you are not there to make every decision for them. 

[00:18:05.530] - Matthew Smith

And that bringing people along, local recruitment, local management. This brings us a little bit on to the talent of tomorrow, because today's entrants into the job market, well, they're all digital natives. You know, they speak languages in emojis and short sentences that some of them, some of us who've been around for a while might not even understand. When you're looking at new managerial candidates, whether they're fresh out of school or they're promoted into leadership a few years down the road. What exactly do you look for? 

[00:18:42.650] - Caspar Herzberg

I look for common sense, first and foremost. I mean, you're very right that many younger entrants into this industry, into the workforce in general, are extremely digitally aware. And I think that's a you know, that is a good thing. And that is also increasingly a given. At the same time, what you really look for, what I at least really look for is, as I said, common sense, the ability to solve problems. Solve problems by thinking outside of the box. Solve problems while being able to operate within processes. So this does not exclude what I just said before about thinking out of the box and the ability to work with other people. And in teams and teams, in person and in teams digitally. 

[00:19:44.050] - Caspar Herzberg

One remark I have to make on on the use of technology is that it works well to manage the status quo. But that when it comes to ideation, it is good to have people physically together. To have them physically together across different generations. And to what we do, what we in the company call multigenerational boards, where people at the end of their working life, people in the middle of their working life and people at the beginning of their working life exchange ideas, try to solve intra company issues or business issues. And I think it is the mix of experience and youthful energy and questioning that is really successful.

[00:20:44.570] - Matthew Smith

That multigenerational boards idea. I know, I know personally, throughout your career, you've been a big champion of diversity. How do you feel that diversity has really paid off in helping you as a leader, make better decisions and also have just better personal outcomes as well? 

[00:21:05.380] - Caspar Herzberg

Well, I I grew up in Egypt and I went to a school where the vast majority, I think it was more than 90 percent of the of the students were Egyptian. So I was the I was the diversity at the time, if you like. And what that has taught me throughout my, my career, that different viewpoints, different cultural backgrounds, different ways of looking at problems, even at life. Yeah. Ultimately, together can become very, very powerful in coming up with new things and in solving problems, even in resisting stress, provided that they are well led. 

[00:21:53.660] - Caspar Herzberg

So, I mean, for me, diversity is, of course, gender diversity. But it is it is more. It is diversity of, of backgrounds of socio economic background. And the more you mix up, people that way. Provided that they operate in an environment and provided you as a leader can create an environment for them in which everyone can express themselves without upsetting, you know, his or her colleagues, then that is a very, very powerful tool, right.

[00:22:33.570] - Caspar Herzberg

Actually, if I look at it, I'm not an expert, but when I look at the tech industry in California, I always had the impression that part of their global diversity is one of the reasons for  the many, many new ideas hat have come out of this, out of this industry.

[00:22:56.640] - Matthew Smith

Very interesting. Now, a quick thought. One word answer. Leaders made or born?. 

[00:23:02.950] - Caspar Herzberg

Made.  

[00:23:07.540] - Matthew Smith

And I suppose a final question. It's difficult, obviously, we're doing this remotely, we're not doing this face to face. Difficult not to bring up Covid 19, you know, the workplace of tomorrow. How do you think what we're seeing today is going to influence your leadership style, how you would use that to mentor other leaders and just business in general?

[00:23:31.770] - Caspar Herzberg

I think that one of the lasting impacts of this pandemic on all of this, all of us is is rediscovering the concept of mortality. I think that especially in the West, we have lived a long time, fifty years more or more without major wars, without without mass mortality. And I think that that has has somewhat relegated mortality, to the margins of peoples consciousness, I mean, when you look at advertisement, people are always young when you see most movies are with actors who are young.

[00:24:27.850] - Caspar Herzberg

I mean, is the celebration of the continuous celebration of youth as the center piece  of much of the business and general thinking in the West? And I think what this pandemic has done, is I think it has really shattered. That for me is a lasting impact of it.

[00:24:48.700] - Caspar Herzberg

I think that when it comes to more that the restrictions that we currently are living, I think, you know, looking at the past experience of pandemics of the last three thousand years or so, when they are recorded, they tend to last two years on average. And afterwards, people more or less return to doing things very similar to how it was before. Pandemics tend to accelerate already existing trends. So I think that some of the technology trends or adoption of technology trends, such as digitization, such as video conferencing, are going to accelerate of course , clearly, supply chains are going to change across the world, are going to come closer to where the where the end product is going to be consumed, both for political reasons and for probably for managerial reasons as well.

[00:25:46.590] - Caspar Herzberg

But if you're asking me what is the one thing that remains. It's a new respect for mortality. And as a result, probably a stronger, a stronger feeling of of being close to one's fellow humans, to one's fellow employees and to one's own family. I think that's what made a lasting impact. 

[00:26:17.240] - Matthew Smith

Thank you. I mean, obviously, I'd like to thank you for your views, your time, and I also wish you great luck coming out of all of these issues that we're having at the moment. So, again, thank you very much, Caspar, for your time today. 

[00:26:30.860] - Caspar Herzberg

Thank you. Thank you, Matt. It's been a pleasure.