50. Student Back Talk: How to Deal with Disrespectful Behavior in the Classroom

When students back-talk the teacher or engage in other disrespectful behavior that disrupts the classroom, it can leave you feeling even more overwhelmed and exhausted, especially as student behavior issues increase right before Spring Break. What should you do when students do or say things that hurt your heart and throw the class off task? In this 50th episode, you'll learn why kids back-talk and act disrespectfully, a plan of action so you can keep control of your classroom while correcting the behavior,  and a script for how to address the student behavior that allows you to keep your rapport with the child while also being firm and adhering to consequences. This episode will help you get through those tough times in the school year before breaks and at the end of the year when emotions run high and regulation runs low!

Get your copy of Teachaholic: The 7-Day MindSET Shift to Conquer Burnout, Build Life-Changing Boundaries, and Reignite Your Love for Teaching at www.erinsponaugle.com/book. 

You can download the Teachaholic Action Guide to begin your journey back from burnout here. 

Are you watching our NEW YouTube Channel on Teacher Burnout and Classroom Management? Watch the latest playlist and SUBSCRIBE to Next Chapter for Teachers on YouTube here!

Download your FREE checklist, The Great 88: Rules, Routines, and Expectations to Go Over and Over, and feel confident establishing classroom management. 

For more resources on classroom management, time management, and preserving mental well-being to avoid teacher burnout, visit www.erinsponaugle.com.

Find more upper elementary classroom resources by visiting Next Chapter Press on Teachers Pay Teachers.

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/next...

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:08

Being a teacher isn't what it used to be. The good news is you don't have to figure it out on your own. If you're looking for truth, inspiration, and tips for success, in the classroom and beyond, you're in the right place. It's time to turn the page to the future of the profession. This is the next chapter for teachers podcast. Hello everyone, I'm Erin Spinagle. Welcome to the next chapter for teachers podcast. This is episode 50. Wow. I am so glad I've been able to share these 50 episodes with you. It's been a long time working towards number 50. So here we are, and for our 50th anniversary episode, we are going to talk about back talk. I know great topic or a very pleasant topic, huh? But it's that time of the year where we're in the long haul to spring break, and everybody, whether it's your students or your coworkers, everybody's just getting a little tired. Tired of each other, tired of the grind. And sometimes it comes out in how we speak to each other. We're going to focus on how the students are speaking to you in particular. Back talk is never a good thing. There are reasons behind it, but the reasons certainly don't justify the actions. It's very hurtful when our students are disrespectful to us, when we are putting so much time into our jobs just to have it not feel appreciated or not feel that we're being respected by our students. But as I just stated, we're tired, we're getting sick, we're getting overstimulated or just overwhelmed with all the test prep. I like to refer to the upcoming month as March Madness for not basketball reasons, but because it just seems like it's a different kid every day of the week that's having a problem. It's not necessarily something that you're doing. It's just the nature of the beast this time of year as we head into spring and we're just getting a little fatigued or a lot fatigued rather by the school year. So when your emotions are running high, whether you are 13 or 30 or older than that, even, uh we say things or do things that are out of line. Are, you know, we usually don't do do as well as we know. That goes for kids, that goes for adults. But disrespect from your students is one thing you do not have the time or energy for this time of the year. It can really wear on you, and if you are feeling like you are about to burn out, it's not going to make things any better when that kid rolls their eyes or says something back to you that is inappropriate or hurtful and disrupts the class. But it's inevitable. Even if you have a great class this year, there's probably been at least one child in your room, in your classes, that has rocked the boat once or twice, or way more than that. And it doesn't even mean that you have a classroom management problem. You can have the best classroom management, you can have very good rules that you adhere to. Your communication, your community in your room can be excellent, and someone's going to flub up. But it's not necessarily a reflection on your ability to teach or manage your classroom or on your effectiveness as a teacher. But it is going to happen, and like I said, it could have been going on all year, but right now, it's or in the next couple of weeks, it's going to really feel like it is coming at you all at once. So it kills your joy. Kills your joy at a point or at a time of the year when you are running very close to nothing in the tank as far as what you're going to need to get to spring break or get to your next extended break to get a hold of yourself or get to a point where you can relax and rest for a moment before you hit it head into the sprint that is the end of the school year. So let's talk about why kids do this. Why do kids back talk? Why do they get disrespectful? What is behind these actions and words that come out of our kids' mouths, even when we are not doing things or we feel like we're not doing things to instigate it or to make our classrooms anything but a welcoming, positive place to learn. Why is it going on? Why does it happen? Why, why you? Why me? All right. So let's get to it. Sometimes it's acceptable outside of school. That is why they back talk to you or or they respond to you in that way. When they are out of school, it's okay or they don't have a consequence if they speak a certain way to their parents or the adult in their in their home, they're not corrected for it. Or if they do get corrected and it's not acceptable at home, they get a reaction when they do those things. They get attention, they are having the resources directed at them. So when they come to school and things aren't going their way, or they're not happy with something in the classroom or a choice that you've decided for your class, it's going to come out in a way that they are wired to get a response from. And it's not going to feel very nice. But they're looking or seeking that reaction because they have learned that speaking or acting that way gets them connection. And we all want to connect as people, but there's a right and wrong way to go about doing it so that you are uh doing the right thing or doing something that does not disrupt the learning environment. Another reason why disrespect, back talk, rudeness happens and you're in the line of fire of it, kids are getting overloaded this time of year. Whether it's the test prep or the test or the projects, a lot of times this third quarter of the school year is when the hardest concepts are taught or the most work is thrown at them because the end of the year we tend to tend to taper off as we get closer to uh when there's least things going on in the year that are fun. And so it's not this is the last nine weeks or the last quarter of the year that's going to be this intense. And that's a lot for some kids, especially if school is not their forte. When when you're overloaded and your executive function is running amok, something comes out of your mouth that probably shouldn't. But just like we all get frustrated sometimes, or we're not happy with somebody at home, and we might yell or say things loudly, or maybe don't use the right tone. Adults do it too. Come on. Uh, our big feelings get in the way of uh what we know is right and how we know how to regulate, but in that moment we don't choose that. And then another reason why this goes on, while we get the back talk, this time of the year, especially things going on outside of school. Maybe it's not you, maybe it has nothing to do with how you teach or how you conduct your classroom. It could be something totally unrelated to what goes on school, goes on at school. It can be events at home, it can be an interaction that they're having with a parent or a sibling or a friend or a family member. Something can be amuck in their life, and then when they get to school, something happens and they erupt because it all just feels so heavy. It there we are more alike than we're different. And even a child with a developing brain has goes through the same stuff that we do when we're not having a good day, they just don't know how to process it like we do, or as we should know how to do. But it doesn't make the behavior acceptable. You can't just erupt and yell and be a smarty pants to people when things in your life aren't great, or that's what goes on at home, or that's how you get what you want at home. You gotta have a different way of doing it. And yes, we can correct the behavior and show how to respond or give them time to cool down and regulate. That's what we're for, because we are the adults in the room. But we do need to handle this in a way that we can keep teaching, we stay regulated because we're in charge of the classroom, and also do it in a way so that we direct them in a manner that helps them choose differently next time when they don't like a decision or they get called out on something they didn't do, or or the list goes on. I don't need to tell you because I bet you're just thinking of things that have happened this year and how you've had to deal with it. So, what do we do when we have this back talk nonsense going on when we need to be teaching and getting things in before spring break and test time? The first thing we have to do is we have to not take it personally. And this is something that is, I think, something we have to work on throughout our entire careers because teaching is very personal. We have connections to these kids, our schools, our work. It feels very personal when we are not treated with kindness and respect from the young people that we are trying to help. It can gut you and make you feel like nothing that you do makes a difference. I understand. I have felt that way many times, but we have to learn to separate our feelings from their behavior and how they choose to react to things. It is hard. It is something you have to practice with, like lifting weights, honestly. But these kids have developing minds, they do not have the same level of regulation that we do. Like I said, does not make what they're doing right. But we have to look at this as we're collecting information about where they're at and what they are choosing at this time. When things are not going their way, or when they don't like stuff, how are they choosing to respond to you? It's not necessarily that they don't like you or they want bad things for you. It's just this is how they respond when things don't go their way or when they are overloaded. Look at it as collecting information, not a personal attack. And it's something you just develop with practice. You can't just flip a switch and say, Oh, I'm not gonna take it personally anymore when they roll their eyes at me. You have to just get used to thinking, oh, this is what they did. Now, how do I need to respond to it? Not, oh my goodness, they did this to me, this hurts me, I don't like how they're acting. We have to step out of that so that we don't let our energy get tapped out by every negative connect uh communication that these kids have. Because the kids, the kids, they're learning. We have to stay calm. Think of it this way. All right, I think it was that there's two different energies in the classroom. There's the kid energy or the kid interaction, and then there's the adult, the teacher energy in your interactions that you're gonna have with them. And we've got like these two bubbles that are kind of existing in the classroom, and sometimes they touch. And when they touch, we want it to be in a way that allows us to connect and not have our bubbles burst. Now, will the bubbles burst sometimes? Yeah, because we're human. But that being said, we've got to stay calm. We are the adult in the room. It's your room, it's your space that you've created for them, but you're the adult. You have to re keep your regulation in certain circumstances in these circumstances, not certain, all the time. Drive, go for, aim for all the time, y'all. But we stay calm because we don't want to give the key, the the keys to the kids. Like you wouldn't give them the keys to your to your car or to the school bus. You don't want to give them the keys to your emotions because they don't know how to drive yet.

unknown 13:26

That way.

SPEAKER_00 13:27

Then they don't know how to drive the vehicle yet. You have a better handle on how to drive the vehicle, even if you don't get it right all the time. So if you stay in control of your emotions, that helps them out. That helps the entire class out because it's not just you that's affected by the back talk and the disrespect, it's everyone in the room that hears it or is experiencing the interactions that are going on. Meet the crazy with the calm. The rest of the class needs it too, so they can continue learning. So, what do we do when there's when this happens? Somebody says something smart, somebody mocks you, somebody rolls their eyes, huffs, throws something on the floor. I could make another book about all of this. Maybe I will. Who sees? Who knows? Things that you can say, first of all, we do not want to get emotional about it. We do not want to yell. We do not need to have a quote unquote meet their energy response. That's not what this is about. This is about remaining the calm, regulated person in the room because you're modeling to the rest of the class and to the student how it's gonna be. So these are some things you can say. And we say these things, and you don't have to say them all, obviously, but we say these things in a very even, firm tone. You don't have to yell. You can be firm without yelling, but we are stating facts. We are stating facts based on the information that we are collecting from how they are behaving. So when a student does something that is disrespectful or says something that they shouldn't have said to you, that's hurtful. Do you think she can say that's unacceptable? We don't do that here. That is my favorite one to say, by the way. A good one to say is I'll talk to you later. And say it with like pause, look at them, and then say that full stop. You don't have to say anything else about what's what you're gonna talk about later, just I'll talk to you later. If you need to phone the office, if it's a situation that's out of control, you can say, excuse me, I need to call the office. If you need an administrator to step in based on the severity of the issue, they're expecting an eruption from you most of the time. They want to see you pop off, they want you to meet them in their crazy, but you gotta meet them somewhere else because you gotta keep the rest of the kids on track and you need to get rein them in as well. So when you meet them with silence, conciseness, and firmness, showing that you will not be deterred, it kind of neutralizes the situation and often helps them realize the severity of what they've done. Because they might in other circumstances and other environments, it may not be a serious thing if they smart off, but it might be something that you take seriously and you can make that known by saying less because they're expecting you to explode. You can also say things if they're just refusing to do something instead of getting into a back and forth with them about no, get started, no, you need to do this, and no, no, no, just that whole, you know, contradicting nonsense. You just need to say you need to start your work and walk away, continue what you're supposed to be doing with the rest of the class. And if they sit there and they're not doing it, you can make a phone call out, or you can just say, I'll talk to you in a moment, and just don't give any more attention. It is not gonna be an attention grabber if they are the back talker, three uh disrespector. Just make that known with less saying less, keeping it simple. Something else that also works when something does happen and the class is like oh what I like to call the care bear stare. Now, maybe I'm dating myself here as an Oregon trail millennial, but I was all into the care bears growing up. If you just look at them, and if the class is tithering a minute, look at them. Again, they are expecting an eruption, their nervous system is you know, f wired for something's gonna happen. Stare, look, watch it, get quiet because they don't know what to expect now. They are expecting fireworks, but if they are met with crickets, they're not quite as used as uh ready to, they don't know what to do with that. Lots of adults don't know what to do with that if you meet them with silence like that. So they're some, you know, we're not all perfect people. But this that's how we keep them from hijacking the class or hijacking the lesson, okay, because the show's gotta go on, you know. We're not going to jump in the pool of their emotions, we're not giving them the keys to the car. We are going to stay in control of things by saying the bare minimum to make our point known and so that we can continue teaching, because that matters. Which goes on to my next point. We need to proceed. You handled the incident, you've said you're gonna talk to him later. We're gonna keep teaching, we're gonna stay on beat because that's what we're here for. And we want the kids to know that's what we're here for because kids get very caught up in the social stuff this time of year. You know, so-and-so likes so-and-so, or so-and-so isn't talking to so-and-so, bus trauma, yeah, the whole shebang. They are really into it in the spring. So we come to school though to learn, and we gotta stay back on that because we have things to accomplish by the end of the school year. And like I said, they like that attention, they like that. Ooh, everybody's off track. Oh, we didn't get to that today because so-and-so said to the teacher. No, we're stopping that. We're going back to business, we have work to do. Show them what we need to do, what needs to go on. And the students that are used to possibly seeing reactions out of teachers and staff members or people at home, they're seeing something different now, and they're gonna be like, oh, oh, so when so when that happens, it's not a we we just keep working. Oh, it's not something we focus on. Oh, we you you are teaching them how to handle disruptions by your reaction. And it's hard. I know, especially when you do not like what they said, if it just really rattles your cage. I get it. If you gotta take a breath, or you gotta look at the board for a minute so you can readjust your face at the moment. That's what you do. Hey, we're human. We are human. Teaching is in the humanities for a reason because we are all human people beings. Yes. So we all said make sure that we follow procedures and consequences. So, yes, we are not going to give it the emotional attention, but we are going to follow through with whatever the school's policies are as far as if it's uh, you know, based on how they behaved in the classroom. Do you write them up? Do you have to fill out a form? Do you need to just do something in your room because it's part of your classroom classroom rules? If they do not uh follow directions or do things the way you have requested them to do them or say them or interact with each other, follow through with it. Either in that moment in class or afterwards, do it. They'd still need to have consequences for how they acted, even though they're learning how to how to human, they still have to deal with the fallout from it. Because that's part of life too. And you're not gonna, you know, 10 years from now, then they're out of school, they're not going to get off um doing those things or saying those things. So we do need to make sure that we follow through with that that part of it. So, yep, we might realize in the afterwards that yeah, that was wrong, but yeah, you gotta deal with the kids. Anyway, so when you have a moment or at the end of class, if you have students that are leaving, like it's a road, you have a more secondary schedule where the kids go to another classroom for each subject. So when the kid is not the center of an at uh when but when the kid is not the center of attention anymore. Woo I get I'm getting all in my fuels with this conversation today. We address it with the child. If you do not feel safe, if it's a really heated incident you might want to get an administrator or another colleague to be there with you. If you don't feel safe, I always feel like your safety needs to be number one. We don't uh value uh teacher safety as much as we should. We really don't. Teachers need to feel safe too and when they need to speak to students physically, emotionally, and you need to get people with you if necessary so that you can do that. So when you have the student one-on-one to speak to them, they're not getting the attention, they're not getting the emotional energy. By now they might have had a chance to think about oh I shouldn't have done that or oh that's wrong or oh what's gonna happen to me. And this is something they have to feel because this is life when you say or do something you shouldn't have done there are consequences and you might have to wait a minute to see what's going to happen because you did it. So maybe they're a little nervous and they're gonna have to deal don't meet them and they're nervous don't back down. We're going to remain calm remember if they don't get the keys to the car if they're crying or they're upset or they're gonna try to work the water work so this happens too come on I've been doing this for a while. That's that's unfortunate get them a tissue but don't lose your firmness that's sat sad is okay. Sad is a feeling that we all feel sometimes based on how we've acted they're gonna have to learn how to deal with it. It's not gonna be a cop-out. You've got to just I know it's hard when they're sad to not feel it in your heart too but maybe this just comes from all those years teaching fifth grade you just have to let them experience it so they know that they don't want to do that again. Because if it's like oh it's okay we're not you know you brush it off I'm sorry you're upset then it's you not the lesson's not gonna go through so when you have the student sorry got off track there because just thinking back to my fifth grade years and I had to talk anyway identify the behavior let me stay on track here. You said blank when I was talking to you you rolled your eyes at me turned your head muttered something whatever whatever it is just identify the behavior not that was wrong when you did that or you know that was you know disrupted like you just just say what they did and they might nuh nu uh repeat it when I was teaching you repeat what they did your observation the information you collected and then you say that's unacceptable or whatever you said to them that's unacceptable we don't do that in here whichever are those that you went with now and if they try to justify their answer or well he was blah blah blah blah blah to me first or well I didn't know that what was due and now you know blah blah but just repeat you said blank that's unacceptable we don't do that in here then you can ask them is there something going on because they're if the behavior is kind of out of character for the the kid you know there might be something going on and are they and they might come up with something out of their head there right on the spot because oh there's a little little bell in their kids ding ding ding you can get out of this that's not where we're going for it but seriously if there's something going on if something has happened and they have exploded like this let them let them tell you you're a trusted adult you know you can say you know whatever's going on at home or or whatever happened with your friends and give them a chance to speak we're not here to shut them down we're giving them a chance to say you know I got mad or you know I didn't understand or I forgot just let them get out doesn't make the behavior okay doesn't mean they're getting off the hook you can repeat well thank you for letting me know but how you responded or how you reacted was unacceptable then this is the teaching moment. We say to them when you feel however they were feeling in that moment angry or upset or overwhelmed you can blank tell them what they can do next time or what they need to do when they feel that way you can ask could we take a walk or you can take a breath and think about what you need to say or what you need to do the assignment or something respectful. Something give them give them something that they can do next time when they're feeling that way there's this is going to be a teaching moment here and this does not have to take very long it's maybe taking me more time to talk about it because I'm very passionate about this subject this is the final part the consequence of your actions is blank and this is where you can say the consequence of your actions is I have to write you up for this or the consequence of your actions is that you owe me whatever your pal whatever your policy or your rules are for your classroom or your school then you tell them that. And there's no and if they but they start going through the but but but you can go back to the very beginning. This is what you did that's unacceptable when you feel that way you can mm whatever it is but because you chose this the consequence is blank. Okay we are gonna hold hard and fast to those consequences and I like to end it with saying looking at them and being very firm and saying this needs to never happen again and then we let them go. And that's it. You release because we don't have the time or energy to let it drain out on an issue on a disrespect issue. We gotta teach and keep our eye on these kids keep them safe while also keeping ourselves safe or feeling safe now you might be wondering here why I didn't say I make the kid apologize. Well this is why I don't get too hung up on apologies. Sure it feels good when a kid says I'm sorry to you and that you know they're saying I'm sorry that didn't mean to hurt yeah I get it I get it we want we want them to feel remorse but I do not like a phologize or a phologize I don't know how I don't want a faux apology I'm trying to make a new word here I want them to mean it when they apologize to me I want them to mean it when they apologize to each other I don't want a sorry just to say that they said sorry. I want them to feel sorry. So if they choose to apologize that's great if they don't apologize in that moment I'm gonna put that on them. Maybe I'll get it the next day maybe I won't get it the next day maybe what I will get maybe my I'm sorry will be that they don't behave that way in my room anymore. And that's the best apology of all and the next day when they come to the room we're we've moved on. So we're not gonna rehash it we're not going to hold on to it and sometimes that is hard if it was really hurtful we've got things to do. You are modeling for all the students you're teaching them how to act not only what they need to learn. So we're moving on from it and we're not going to dwell and not going to make it a focal point of our classroom because we want the kids to learn. Treat them like you've moved on and give them a chance to prove that it won't happen again. And that's great. And if you need to talk to someone in your administr in your your administrators about what happened you certainly need to do that. Contact parents let them know what's going on with older students. I this is my take after teaching fifth grade for a very long time. I like to give them a chance to correct the behavior because they're getting ready to go to middle school and I want them to be I wanted I still want them to because I still teach fifth grade just I don't just exclusively teach fifth grade anymore. I want them to learn how to be independent and process on their own. So I felt like not every single little thing that they did that was wrong or disrespectful in my classroom needed to be communicated to the parent. I know you're probably thinking oh the shame clutch the landlord clutch the lanyards but uh no I didn't I would let them now if it was a repeating issue absolutely but if it was a one-off thing I maintained that uh rapport with the kid and let them say this needs to never never happen again I understand if it's corrects then it corrects and we move on from it because there's lots of other things we need to get to during the school year lots of other interactions I want to have with the kids that are positive and I don't want to make dealing with back talk and disrespect the center point of what we do during the day. So just to recap, this is something that really means a lot to me because I know that it's a time of the year where we are really feeling the burn kids back talk and get disrespectful for lots of reasons. It's because what it's what they're used to doing to get attention or get a reaction at home or otherwise we're on overload with all the expectations and things we need to do this time of the year it's gonna happen. There could be something going on that you don't know about and you may not even be the source of their reaction to you. It's not acceptable we're gonna find ways to deal with it though so that we keep our energy separate from theirs. We do not get on the crazy train with them and we're certainly not going to let them drive the crazy train. So we've got our firm statements that's unacceptable we don't do that here. I'll talk to you later there's always the care bear stair if you don't have to say anything at all. And we're just gonna keep teaching we're gonna do what we're there to do and not focus on the words that were hurtful in that moment. We're gonna deal with it though we're gonna follow the procedures we're gonna talk about with the kid and I think this part is very important because how we correct the behavior. When they're not the center of attention we identify it this is what you said that's unacceptable. Is there anything you want to tell me is something going on okay when you feel that way this is the lesson when you feel that way you need to do whatever it is can you do that or do you need help? That's what I would say to the child also is that something you can do or do you mean help you with that the consequence this needs to never happen again and we move on because you've got lots that you can do with these kids. You are very talented I may not know you if you're listening but you've got lots to offer this world we're not gonna get hung up on this stuff because there's a way we can handle it in a way that we hold on to our joy and our energy so that we can continue to do our jobs and be the best person in and out of the classroom. So thank you to listening to episode 50 of the next chapter for teachers podcast I appreciate your engagement if you would like for this 50th episode to make sure that you give us a rating on Apple Podcast or wherever you're listening that's greatly appreciated. Have a great week I've got lots of good content coming up for you this spring if I can keep my words coming out of my mouth and I will talk to you next time that's all for this episode of the next chapter for teachers podcast if you like what you heard be sure to rate subscribe and leave a review join us next time to turn the page to the future of the profession until then remember to be different but more importantly be the difference and I'll see you in the next chapter