Triple Bottom Line
Business for the Revolution
Laura Hartley is a coach, writer, activist, and founder of an online school for changemakers—empowering forward thinking business leaders how to live their most meaningful lives while simultaneously creating their deepest impact. She teaches ways to build a business beyond capitalism, overcome eco-anxiety, burnout, and how to embody collaborative and regenerative forms of leadership.
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Laura Hartley is a coach, writer, activist, and founder of an online school for changemakers—empowering forward thinking business leaders how to live their most meaningful lives while simultaneously creating their deepest impact. She teaches ways to build a business beyond capitalism, overcome eco-anxiety, burnout, and how to embody collaborative and regenerative forms of leadership.
See our private video lessons, join our mastermind and see how our bots profit in bull/bear markets.
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
[Upbeat theme music plays]
Female Voice Over [00:02]
Welcome to the Triple Bottom Line, where we reveal how today’s business leaders are reaching a new level of success with a people-planet-profit approach. And here is your host, Taylor Martin!
Taylor Martin
Welcome back to the Triple Bottom Line. I am here today with Laura Hartley. She is an activist, a writer, a coach, and she has an online school for change makers. Laura, can you tell our listeners a little bit more about this school and kind of how you got to be where you are now doing what you're doing with this school?
Laura Hartley
Firstly, Taylor, thank you. I'm really excited to be on the show. My work was born out of three passions that coalesce around one question, which is, ‘How do we create a more beautiful world in life?’ I am an activist, primarily in environmental and climate spheres. I'm really passionate about a regenerative future about what a world beyond capitalism would look like. Capitalism is the leading driver of the climate crisis, so it's really imperative that if I'm doing this work, I'm starting to imagine a world beyond capitalism. I also grew up in a house that was surrounded with personal development, with spirituality, and with coaching. My mother actually founded one of the very early life coach training schools in this country, probably about 30 years ago. My earliest memories are listening to Tony Robbins or Dennis Waitley. We had Florence Scovel Shinn and the Game of Life growing up, so I became really interested in what our inner worlds are. What does it mean to create change within ourselves? What does it mean to be alive at this time, to create meaning at this time, to be human at this time? I have these kind of two intersecting loves of outer change and inner change and then this combined with my love of business. I think business is an incredibly powerful force, that it has the possibility of revolution in what we do. And that's at every scale, whether it is for small, micro solopreneurs or whether it is big, global fortune 500 companies, I think there is huge potential to create change within them.
[02:09] Out of this, my school was born. I run an online school for change makers, really empowering them to live meaningful lives while they create change. We have programs around healing burnouts and embodying anti-capitalism within business and then also doing this inner work of dismantling supremacy culture and internalized capitalism because it's not just something we're doing on the outside, it is also something we're doing within us. And this has kind of led us here to this conversation today.
Taylor Martin
Those that are listening to her wonderful accent, it is from us Australia, if you've been trying to guess. That's where she's from. She is from Sydney, Australia to be specific. With your online courses… You and I were talking before the show… We were talking about a new class that you have coming up: Business for the Revolution. Now, anytime I hear the revolution word, I'm always concerned. You already mentioned beyond capitalism, and I think that is uneasy for people because they don't know what that means and it's fearful to them because if you're anti-capitalism, what does that mean? But I don't think you're anti capitalism. I think you're just trying think of the next stage beyond capitalism. Am I right?
Laura Hartley
Yeah, but I also think that being beyond capitalism is a little bit anti-capitalist. I think we're quite afraid of that word: anti-capitalism. When we think about it, we have all these negative connotations that have been kind of thrown at us over decades of like socialism or communism or these other systems out there. But being an anti-capitalist is really about believing in a future which doesn't quite exist yet, which is still being created, which is still being born.
Taylor Martin
Mm.
Laura Hartley
[03:52] So, coming back to what that term means, it's a very co-creative term that we can discover. I also think we need a revolution. A revolution isn't scary. If you look at the world today, we have the climate crisis. We have ecological breakdown at a scale that is unimaginable. If you look at the science, there is incredible warnings coming to us over the coming decades and the coming century of water scarcity, of food shortages. We need a revolution. And then even if you just look at how society is functioning, and there is a lot of discontent. There are a lot of people who are not happy. There's a lot of people who are just making it by. There is huge wealth inequality. Sometimes we cling so deeply to the status quo because I think it's what we need or what we think we need. It's what we know. But ultimately, there is another world that is possible and it's up to us as to what we want to create.
Taylor Martin
Yeah. It’s safe. It’s what we know, so it’s safe.
Laura Hartley
Yeah. Exactly.
Taylor Martin
We were talking about… You have basically kind of five pillars of what you like to address and think about in the world. Can we go through those because I thought those were really interesting? Starting with the first one, which was beyond profit and growth.
Laura Hartley
When we're starting to imagine what a world beyond capitalism would look like, we need to start to imagine what business beyond capitalism would look like. Now, business and capitalism are not the same thing. Business is simply trade or exchange about goods and services, which has happened for a centuries and millennia. And, obviously, capitalism is just a way of organizing that commerce, a way of organizing our business. We want to kind of detach business from the idea that it's always going to be about the capitalist idea of pursuing growth at all costs. What I have here are these five pillars of what I call, ‘Business for the Revolution,’ or to create a business beyond capitalism.
[05:56] Now, the first of these is called, ‘Beyond Profit and Growth. There is an environmental activist, Edward Abbey, who once said, “Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell.”
Taylor Martin
Yep.
Laura Hartley
And that's the ideology of capitalism- infinite growth on a finite planet. In business beyond capitalism, growth is only important to maturity. Instead, we learn to measure success also through impact, through joy, through meaning, through connection. And we follow nature, embracing cycles and seasons in our work. This could be cycles in how we're working in the actual attention and energy we're giving to our business. It could be cycles in the way that we're producing our product but looking at ending this need for a constant linear extraction.
The second principle is that everything is relational and connected. All injustice, all life is connected. Very often in the old paradigm, there was this idea that there was business and then there was home. There was work and then there was pleasure, and these things were completely separate. You went to work and leave your personal life at the door. But we are full human beings. It doesn't work that way. We really understand that our business, every decision in it, is part of co-creating the world together. It's part of our full humanity. We're not separating it anymore.
[07:18] The third principle is anti-oppression, because capitalism has upheld and perpetuated classism racism, sexism, supremacy culture in all of its forms since it began. You cannot fully separate capitalism from colonization. As entrepreneurs, I think we need to be embedding anti-racist, feminist, anti-oppressive principles into our business. Not just our hiring decisions, but our supply chains, our marketing really examining all the way that these decisions can be impacted by unconscious biases.
The fourth principle is moving from sustainability to a regenerative culture. We live in an age of ecological breakdown. That is a fact, and it's not enough to be sustainable. To be sustainable is to kind of maintain what is without degrading it further, but we've already gone too far. So, we need to be embracing regeneration, really being part of a circular economy but giving back to the world. It's the embrace of life-giving principles.
Lastly, in going beyond business beyond capitalism, the fifth principle is vocation. That business is not just about filling our outward needs. It's the expression of our inner gifts. It's something that we are called to, and it's something that we're helping our employees, our team members also feel called to in their jobs. We're moving beyond the means to an end in that section. It's really coming from an inner, from a sacred, from a more internal place in what we do.
So, we have beyond profit and growth, everything is relational and connected, anti-oppressive, from sustainable to regenerative, and vocation as our sacred callings, as these five principles.
Taylor Martin
Sign me up! I think it's great. Those are the things I think we wish we had right now. I think there's really little pushback for the majority of business-minded people, thought leaders, but the only problem is just we have a big ship to redirect and that's not easily done.
[09:28] We were talking about your new class that you're doing, the Business for the Revolution. When does that start? When are you going to open up that program?
Laura Hartley
That's starting in a couple of months’ time. It's a five- month container for entrepreneurs, both solopreneurs and small business owners, who want to learn to really adjust their way of working in their business to a world beyond capitalism, to dismantle all of the ways that that turns up and occurs in their business. It should be starting, I would say, in about May now.
Taylor Martin
What's it like for when you're having- I know this is a new class but other classes you've had- when you're trying to educate people and lift them up, educate them, get them on their path, and get them going, what are some of the commonalities that you find with people in terms of either getting them unstuck or bringing them around to a new understanding?
Laura Hartley
This is such a good question. I think so much of the work that I do is around culture change. I deliberately say my work is about dismantling. It’s the inner work of dismantling supremacy, culture, and capitalism. So, when we start to look at the big, overarching culture that we live in, that seems overwhelming really.
Taylor Martin
Yeah.
Laura Hartley
That is such a big ship to turn around. How on earth do we do that? But we also all exist within small microcultures: the culture zones of our organizations, of our families, of our communities. And these are cultures that we deliberately participate in, that we have direct influence over. I really work to encourage people to start small, to start where they are, to start in their organization, start with their colleagues. Then when there is enough change here at this kind of micro level from enough people, I also believe that that starts to influence and change the wider sphere that we exist in. So often, we are conditioned to look for a change from outside, from this: ‘Something's going to happen in the big outer governmental, political, or economic sphere and then that's going to change me and what I can do.” But that's not how change works. It starts here. It starts with us. It starts in our microcultures and then it spreads out up into the macro.
Taylor Martin
Yeah. Not coming from the mommy/daddy complex. It has to be with you. You're the one that's going to make the change. You are the change makers we've been waiting for. [Laughs] That kind of thing.
Laura Hartley
We are the culture makers. We are the change makers. Exactly. It's not coming from anywhere else. This is the time. Now is the time, and it is up to us.
Taylor Martin
[11:54] I never thought about doing a podcast until I was with a business coach, and he brought up the idea because of the certain things that I am passionate about and knowledgeable on. And he goes, “You should really do a podcast based on those passions you have,” and here we are. I think we are the change makers.
I want to dive a little bit deeper in what you said about trying to paint that picture of what is post-capitalism. I feel like that is just something that I hear more and more often these days, and, like I mentioned earlier, I think it's fearful for people because they’ve always felt like what you said. They've always felt like, “Oh, instead of capitalism, it's either socialism or Marxism,” or whatever ism. But I feel like there's something else that is brewing, like you mentioned, that is coming, but we don't know what the name of it is yet. But we know like the structure of it because you're five pillars, I think, covered that. I named this podcast The Triple Bottom Line because I love the three-legged stool concept of people, planet, and profit because we have to have all those things working together, but you're definitely going a lot deeper than that. What do you see right now from your vantage point? How would you paint the picture of how you’re seeing that post-capitalistic world coming to be?
Laura Hartley
Again, I have to say that post-capitalism isn't created yet. It is something that we are all co-creating together. It's being born right now, but there are two standout features that I would probably recognize as being pillars. These are, first, the acceptance that infinite growth on a finite planet is not possible. It’s that shift away from growth because even conscious capitalism, which has been such an important steppingstone and such an important movement, sometimes it's still pursuing growth for the sake of growth. We need to examine why that is and start to break that down a little bit. The second is the rejection of artificial scarcity. Scarcity is embedded into capitalism. It is a driver of capitalism, and we are starting to look at the ways that a world without scarcity would look like. What would it be like if we removed it from our mindset, from our marketing, from our production techniques? Planned obsolescence is just one example of how scarcity shows up in our production techniques. It shows up in our marketing all the time with, “five seats left,” or “you need to sign up in the next 32 minutes or you won't get this thing.”
[14:29] There's legitimate scarcity, especially for real, in-life. Past workshops is an example. If you’ve got five seats left in the room, that's legitimate scarcity. You should use that. There's also artificial scarcity when we're using it for Evergreen and webinars and thing. It’s not real. All of this, the post-capitalist world, is removing this idea of scarcity and instead replacing it with a sense of authenticity and with a sense of abundance that there is enough. And that it’s oaky to be where we are.
One of struggles, I think, of capitalism is that it doesn't know what it is to be satiated. It doesn't know what it is to be satisfied. And that's because there is a constant production of scarcity within it. Removing the scarcity gives us a chance to understand what is enough. What does it mean to have enough, to be enough, to give enough, to do enough? And that's what I'm seeing in post capitalism as it's future is it's kind of evolving right now.
Taylor Martin
Mm. I've been reading some things, and one of the things- you just kind of made my memory flag go up- is there was this statement that said, “If all of our energy was sustainable tomorrow, we would still have a problem because our processes are all using too much of our resources.” So, we would need to scale back. And this number is going to freak some people out, but 75%, we need to scale back 75% of our consumption. I had to like stop, and I read it a couple of times [laughs] because I'm trying to find how I can fit that round peg in a square hole. What are your thoughts on those kind of numbers? Does that sound right? Does that sound over or under?
Laura Hartley
No. I mean, realistically, those are the type of numbers that we're looking at. We do need a radical shift in how we're living. But I think what often scare as people when we look at this is we think, “I'm not going have enough then. That means that I'm going to be struggling, that I'm going be suffering. That there's never going be enough for me.” That's not necessarily true. This is about redefining and re-understanding what a meaningful life is, what a successful life is, what an abundant or flourishing or thriving life is. It’s not about more, more, more. We are so conditioned to pursue growth. We are so conditioned to believe that we always need to be growing and doing and becoming bigger. That includes us as business owners, that our business always needs to be growing or else it's kind of like stagnant or stale or it's not doing very well.
Taylor Martin
Right.
Laura Hartley
So, we need to decondition ourselves from that idea and start to reimagine it. The problem with sustainability is I don't think sustainability is possible when we don't know what it is to be satisfied.
Taylor Martin
Mm.
Laura Hartley
[17:31] When we start looking at bringing our consumption back like that, what we also look at is very likely having more time because we probably won't be producing quite so much. Hopefully our working hours are shorter, our working lives are shorter. We have more time in our communities. That means we have more time to make meaningful connections with our friends, with our families, with our community, more time to find work that is meaningful to us. This pillar of vocation is there because what are we going to do with our time? What are we going to offer to the world?
It’s not as scary as it seems. A lot of our economies will become much more hyper local. We'll still live in a global world, but the food that we eat, the products that we consume will be made more locally
Taylor Martin
Indoor farming. Yeah. That's one thing.
Laura Hartley
Yes! Urban farming. Absolutely. That's a huge one. And so, it's not that we're going to be like stripped of 75% of our belongings and we're going to be homeless, and we can't buy anything, and the shelves will all be empty. That is like an apocalyptic world and that is the world that we easily imagine.
There's a quote… I don’t who says it. If anybody knows, please write to me and tell me. But that it's easier to imagine the apocalypse, the literal end of the world, than it is to imagine the end of capitalism. When we're imagining this stripping of 75% of our production, we're imagining apocalypse. But it doesn't have to be that way. There is a future with more meaning, with more contribution, more connection, more purpose that actually awaits us. Ultimately, when you look at the world today, you look at the rate of burnout that exists, the rate of mental health conditions of depression and anxiety that it exists. We're not a very happy world. We're actually a highly dysfunctional world. I'm not sure that this is entirely a bad thing. I think we'll find a lot of good in it as well.
Taylor Martin
[19:28] Oh, my God. There's so many things to unpack at what you just said in terms of disparities between the have and the have nots. That's a chasm that's growing and that causes a lot of problems that causes anxiety and that causes stress, which causes all these other health problems. I always think about how people are wanting to do the things we're talking about, but they have these stressors in their lives, and they have these responsibilities to manage. I always think how do they easily move their lifestyle into something like this?
Laura Hartley
This is an excellent question, and I think that there's a couple of different answers to this. I think it's, one, actually taking the weight off personal responsibility a little bit. I spent a lot of years really being very, very passionate about being zero waste, about making my business as environmentally friendly as possible, which we should as business owners- we have that responsibility- about never using a takeaway coffee cup, recycling, this big thing on personal responsibility. Ultimately, we need wide assistance change. The change we need, it’s not enough to just do it in our own lives, to just shift incrementally. We need shifts in our government, in our policies, in our communities.
I think taking it all off of us and looking at the wider picture can really help because then it actually gives us a bit more imagination to work from. “Okay. It's not this other burden that's sitting on me that I need to do it on top of raising a family, having a job, running my business, everything else. It’s okay. I work with other people. This is a co-creative experience.” And this is where I think we come to communities. There’s a quote, I think is Rob Hopkins from the Transition Network, who says, “If we wait for government, it will be too late. If we work as individuals, it is not enough. But maybe if we work as communities, it will be the space that we need.”
Taylor Martin
I like that.
Laura Hartley
And all of this exists in communities, and our businesses exist in communities. One of the ways that we should be measuring the success of our business or the value of our business, is by its relationship and its impact in our community. Is it contributing to our community's flourishing? Is that well regarded? How is it perceived? Are we an active participant with our business in our community flourishing? The community might be an online community. It might be very niche. It might be the actual physical location of a brick mortar store, whatever it might be. This coming back to this is work we do together. And how do we start to have these conversations and talk about what a future might be like?
Taylor Martin
[22:10] We did a podcast many moons ago with Michael Curlin, who is a CEO of a facility maintenance company called Branded Group. I don't know if you're familiar with facility maintenance, but it just means that you go out and make sure that all the stores for a specific brand are working. Light bulbs are working. Locks are working. Glasses are clean. All that stuff. He wanted to do something different with his business. Instead of just doing that, they do all these other things for the community. I'll never forget this talk he had. It was a very important talk, and he was one of the guest speakers. They invited him to come up and give his speech. I don't know how long it was. He got up there and just, he goes, “You know what? Everybody knows what we do. What do they not know about us?” And that is what made him say, “I'm going talk about our community-based projects that we do for Habitat for Humanity, for dogs, for animals, for beach cleanup.” All these different things. He just went up there and said, “We do what we do, and you know what we do, and we do it better than anybody else. But what you don't know…” And then he went down this list, all this community-based stuff. Sure enough, he got lots of work out of it because these other brands were like, “We align with what your principles are and what you're doing, and we want to be a part of it.” It was something that he thought up on his own and realized this is what's important. He’s not a sustainable business. He’s just a regular business doing things back for the community. I think we ALL need to be doing that.
Laura Hartley
Yes. And so often when you look at corporates, their idea of giving back is to have one day a year off, half a day a year that their team go and do something for a nonprofit somewhere. But that’s not really being a part of the community. That’s kind of like, again, this ‘we're a bit separate, but we'll lend you our resources’ for this one day. Instead, let's break it down. What is our role? What do we want it to be? Especially for small businesses, this is often a lot easier than the larger ones, but it can apply at either level. Who is our community? What support do they need? What skills do we have that we can be offering, not just in a give back one day a year, but through our paid services as well? How's our supply chain here? How's our production? How are the skills of our team members all contributing to a more beautiful world? And that's what it comes down to, I think. Are we creating a more beautiful world with all of our decisions?
Taylor Martin
Yeah. That is the triple bottom line, the fourth bottom line. It’s the outcome. It’s the outcome that we're talking about?
[24:51] We have a podcast I just did last week, and we were talking about Ethical Swag, and they have to go in… Ethical Swag- it's great name of a business- that tells you everything you need to know. Everybody wants to put their logo on something and give it as a gift or their employees or business partners, or whatever. They decided to do something about that space because who knows how many a billions of a company business market a year. They have to go in and interview their suppliers, their supply chains, and make sure they meet all their standards along the way. I see them, a company like that, doing that due diligence. And that I think, “You're right.” I think every business needs to start doing that, and they need to start advertising that so people that are buyers or future partners, prospects, they can read this information, understand this information and then make better decisions because if you're going be comparing A to B.
Laura Hartley
Yeah. People want to buy from businesses that are like this. People are very, very conscious now of the world and what is happening, and they want to be a part of creating something better. People are more conscious of their purchases where they're coming from and what they're buying than ever before. So, yeah, examining our supply chain, especially for those of are who have already embraced like a circular economy, really looking in detail. What might be falling off of this? Where might I still be extracting too fast at the beginning so that it doesn't have time to regenerate? When you understand the full supply chain and then how you're treating your workers on that supply chain at every level as well and what you're contributing to, tell the world. Tell people why your product costs a bit more money because it has X, Y, and Z, and this level of care and detail has been taken. Let people fall in love with your brand because it's a meaningful brand with real purpose. I think this is so important in the world today.
And we get it on kind of a surface level, I think, but I think there's so much depth that we can still take this to, to communicate this more and to understand this more and embody this more. This is this real next step that we're talking about.
Taylor Martin
Yeah. And I would have to say, I have to give props where they're deserved, but the younger generations- I say generations plural- they do want a sense of purpose with their work. However, I'm a generation X, so we are a generation that is like 110%, give it all you got, and work long hours and all that stuff. You learn a lot by doing that, but the young generation, I think, is more mindful of themselves, I guess, than being workaholics like we are, but they do have that sense of purpose.
You had something else on your website for your online courses, The Changemaker Circle. Can you explain what that is?
Laura Hartley
[27:47] Absolutely. The Changemaker Circle is a monthly circle for changemakers. When I use the word changemaker, this really includes frontline direct activists, it includes social entrepreneurs, anybody in social enterprises, it includes nonprofit workers, community organizers. People are coming from quite a diverse background in what they actually do, but they're all in some capacity working to make a beautiful new world. We come together every month. There's a monthly webinar on a different topic, something relevant to what's happening in the world right now. It could be something like obviously looking at the tragedy that's unfolding in Ukraine right now. We can look at what we're feeling, offering some space to care for ourselves and then to work out our best response and what we can do. Or it might be another month on… Burnout is a very particular one that we cover quite a lot looking and breaking down this. Another month is on internalized capitalism, looking at all the ways we have internalized scarcity. That's often in our time. In our fears of not enoughness. In our perfectionism. These are all internalizations of capitalism. We spend a lot of time breaking that down. And there's a really good community that people get to come together and get to know one another across the world. The Changemaker Circle is a good place to be.
Taylor Martin
Changemakers. Things that are always changing. I've been interested in how some things have changed in terms of scarcity when people are reading books like… I can't remember any of the names of them, but my brother read one of them and wanted me to read it. It was something like, ‘Reduce a Hundred Things a Year of What You Own.’ You just keep weeding things down and then it allows more space to do other things and to appreciate more of the other things you do have. It’s like trimming the fat if you will. I feel like that's another thing that's working in the right direction. It’s kind of like anti-consumerism in a way, but I think, overall, it's good for the, like I said, the fourth bottom line. The results of all our efforts. What do you think?
Laura Hartley
[29:58] This kind of minimalism approach, or this kind of idea of like shedding our things. Well, I think what that is about is about learning what's most important to us. So often, we're using consumption as this way to kind of fill a void.
Taylor Martin
Mm.
Laura Hartley
Again, it's this thing that we've been conditioned to do to grow, to consume just endlessly. It’s about keeping up with Joneses. You don't want to fall behind. You need to be upwardly mobile in your class or whatever it is. This has been conditioned for centuries and for decades. We're really starting to unpack this and to remove the fear and the scarcity that's behind it and then it has this questioning, “Well, what actually is meaningful to us? Do I need all this stuff? Does it make me happy? Do I have space in my life? Do I have space for more creativity, for more time, for more energy that I could give to the things that I'm passionate about?” For somebody like me who is a millennial and a Gen Y, that is my business. This is a purpose-driven business for me.
[31:01] Removing the things and starting to do that, does give me that little bit of space. And it doesn't mean we're removing everything. I'm not about being broke. I don't personally want to live out of a van. I know some people who d and who love it. [Both parties laugh] It's not for me. It’s about, “What do I actually need? What brings me joy? What brings me meaning?” And then that gives me energy in return to then give to things like my business and to giving me back to the world that I want to create.
Taylor Martin
I remember years ago we had like a personal life coach that came in and used our clothes as a metaphor for something like this, minimalism. And they said, “When you pick up this shirt or those pants or this whatever, these shoes. Are you going to wear that? Have you worn that in two years? Can somebody else be wearing this? Can somebody else be using this?” And the first time I went through the process, and I cleaned out my closet, I felt pretty good. But then I realized, “Man, I can go so much more.” And now, I just have the shirts that I need. I always laugh with my wife, and she'll never hear those podcast, but her closet is just so many clothes! I know women always have more clothes than men, but mine is clean, minimalist, organized, and hers is just chaos [laughs]. She's going to hate me for this one.
Laura Hartley
I respect that because mine is a little similar to her still, so I do need to work on that.
Taylor Martin
I want to call to a close. We had some really great conversation here today. My mind's going to be toying around about all these conversations, so you’ll probably get an email from me.
What about our listeners? How can they reach out to you and to follow you or maybe take one of your classes, get to know you, and link up to you?
Laura Hartly
[32:49] I run free classes every month actually. I ran one just the other night on burnout. I have another master class coming up on internalized capitalism, so anybody who's really interested in breaking down what capitalism looks like in our mindset and in our experiences, then come along to that. I also run some on eco anxiety, this feeling of being anxious about climate change in the future.
You can find me at my website, which is laurahartley.com. You can also follow me on Instagram at @laura.h.hartley or find me on LinkedIn. You'll find all of my work there and opportunities to join.
Taylor Martin
Excellent. Laura, thank you so much for being on today's show. I really enjoyed this conversation. I got to tell you, this beyond capitalism thing is something, like I said, I keep hearing more and more. You're probably going to see a future podcast about this, maybe specifically to that. I wish you all the best in your future endeavors. Again, thanks for being on the show.
Laura Hartley
Thank you. It was great to be here.
Taylor Martin
Cheers. Over and out, everybody.
Female Voice Over
Thanks for tuning into the Triple Bottom Line. Your host, Taylor Martin, is founder and Chief Creative of Design Positive, a strategic branding and accessibility agency. Interested in being interviewing on our podcast? Then visit designpositive.co and fill out our contact form. If you enjoyed today’s podcast, we would appreciate a review on Apple podcasts or whatever provider you are logging in from. This podcast is prepared by Design Positive and is not associated with any other entity. We look forward to having you back for another installment of the Triple Bottom Line. [34:29]
