Awakened in America
Awakened in America
S1 Ep #5: Religion
Hosts Z and Jess discuss how even areas where we would normally expect inclusion, like religion, are also lacking.
Hello, awakened. Thank you for joining us today. Today's topic is a sensitive one. It's called religion. And just remember these are expressed opinions and we are coming from our hearts and it is not intended to offend anyone of any faith. Thanks for listening. You're listening to awaken in America, two minds on a journey to create dialogue about diversity inclusion and optimism. And today we are discussing a real life example, something we were just having a sidebar discussion about and Z, I just wanted to get some feedback from you on a sermon you were listening to today that resonated. Yeah. So, um, you know, with this whole COBIT, I'm still trying to, uh, stay in tune with church and trying to, you know, start my week off. Right. So I decided to listen to an online sermon, um, of her friend's church and I've listened before, and it's a predominantly white church. I'm not going to say where it's located, but it's a predominantly white church and I have attended a predominantly white church in the past, um, actually in Arizona. And I really liked the church. It was not a nomination. People were friendly. Um, they would confuse the very few black people that were in the church, but, you know, um, yeah. Um, but you know, but people were, um, you could tell that they were good natured and you know, they were, they were trying to be good Christians. So, um, you know, we took it, we took it for that. And anyway, so the sermon that I listened to today was similar. I noticed when the pastor was talking about Keith, the pastor was talking about keys and how Jesus can give us access to that, which we desire, um, or that which we've set our hearts on, or, uh, what have you, um, because the words of the Bible are power and when we speak certain words, um, it can bring certain things to life. And, you know, some people may interpret this as like, kind of like the karma thing or kind of speaking manifestations into your life. It's a similar principle. And honestly, I was listening and I was engaged and I was learning up until a point where the pastor went to mentioned something about access. I can't remember exactly how he said it, but it immediately made me think about a missed opportunity now, for those who, you know, aren't in church, this may not seem very relevant, perhaps it isn't, but it speaks again to the, to the general undertone of what America is lacking. It's the, it's the empathy towards one another that we're lacking. And I ended up having a chat with a person that was related to a, that was a coordinator of the ministry as a sidebar that was going on simultaneously with the live YouTube session, uh, sermon and my feedback cause they asked, Oh, do you have any feedback? My feedback was, it was a missed opportunity that when the pastor discussed about, um, those who don't have access or what have you to have brought in other cultures,
Speaker 2:Real life relevant topic happening right now, make it inclusive.
Speaker 1:Exactly. And, um, and then, you know, there was some back and forth on the chat and it kind of led to, you know, uh, the white fragility. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right. And our sidebar, as soon as you said, you know, I, I put in this comment, this chat, and then I think it might've gotten escalated. And then the immediate response was basically defensive. And then I think you were going to tell me, they even went so far, this person on the other end of the chat is the same. We just had a diversity sermon or something like that, which again, I'm going to cite Robin DeAngelo's book. But this defense mechanism that we have created and this, one of the things white people tend to do. And I will say, I am guilty of this as well is proximity. So saying I'm not racist. I have friends that are multiracial or I'm not racist because we want to believe that about ourselves. So I can, you know, be honest with myself about that as a defense mechanism, because it kind of protects me. It makes me feel like I don't need to do any more inward introspection. I don't need to educate myself any further cause I'm not racist. And it kind of shuts down the conversation,
Speaker 1:Which is what I mentioned in our previous episode about just dismissiveness. So if it's going to be dismissed and to come up with some excuse or, you know, whatever, denial, whatever it may be, then it immediately shuts the door for communication.
Speaker 2:Exactly. And just to clarify, I'm not saying, um, I am racist, you know, I mean, I think Robin de Angela actually comes out and is forthcoming with that because she's white and inherently, we're living in a society and a culture that is white supremacist, you know, based. So I'm not saying that that's not the part I want to focus on. The part I want to focus on is that is in response to racism that keeps us from as white people learning about it and being empathetic, like you said, and understanding the other side of this systemic problem, you know, it gives us protection from that by saying that's not me, you know? Right.
Speaker 1:Right. And, and, and, and when, when she said that, Oh, when she typed that, um, I got the feeling of, okay, you're telling me that I'm making this a racial thing and I wasn't approaching it from a racial perspective. I may have used the word black in there, but what I was trying to do, and I did end up chatting that there were a universal truths and why it escalated is because I said plantation owners would go to church on Sunday. And then on Monday they would rape murder and lynched people. And I put that in there because it's to say that it's not okay to go to church on Sunday and do your whole there, then that house. And then on Monday, snuff out the life of your brother, air a home, a safe place to live air. The whole, I can't breathe. It wasn't just that George Floyd's life was snuffed out. It was that every black American could picture their own life being snuffed out under the weight of this constant oppression. Basically, this is why churches are still segregated. I think you're right. That's what I said.
Speaker 2:And that's actually something I want to learn more about myself too, is religion. And the part that it plays in American society in this, you know, systemic racism. Um, but yeah, yeah, the only thing I could respond is we, white people, even white progressives have so little understanding of the root of those feelings. Um, it's unacceptable, you know, abominable. It was so formative to where we are now, you know, the way people were treated, even though it was in the 18 hundreds or 14, I mean way before the 18 hundreds. But when I see you having the pain, the level of pain that you still have today about that, it's a reminder to me of how shielded I have been from, you know, the country's history and the difference in, you know, my whiteness. And honestly, at times it gets me so down that I just want to like walk away from the conversation and like bury my head because it is so shameful and hurtful for me to have to be associated with that, you know, which is like some of the first feelings that I had when you and I discussed starting this podcast and all that, there's nothing that we can relate to. So what are we supposed to say? You know, I've seen these headlines, you know, people washing African-Americans feet and saying, they're sorry, and I am constantly having this internal dialogue. How can we make it, make it okay. It's never going to be made, right. But how can we make it so that my friend, you understand, you know, my empathy for the situation, how can I show you that, you know, I know it's not going to happen overnight. And it comes with a lot of hard work and I'm willing to do the work. I just don't know how to show you how sorry I am and you know, how badly I really want things to be better.
Speaker 1:Well, I think, I think that, you know, unfortunately it's not going to happen, but you know, if, if we could get more people like you to kind of come to the consensus and just the acknowledgement, it's just, I think the hardest part is there is a huge economic divide and no amount of black sports players or artists or producers or actors and actresses or musicians, no amount of blacks that you give money in that way will ever repay all that was lost back then. Oh, that was lost. Um, but if we could just have some laws, even that acknowledge that there was injustice and that something needs to be done, like with the statues. Yes. It's time for those statues to come down, just like the Confederate flags,
Speaker 2:The school named after Robert Eley, the final age has changed. Thank God.
Speaker 1:It's like, we're just, why is our country not crying out for these things to be done? It's not just for us. It's it's so that there can be an awakening amongst everyone to say, let's honor, all the immigrants let's honor all the people who have come to this country and helped make America. Great. Great.
Speaker 2:And I think the answer to that is because it comes with, um, accountability and acknowledging the dark history and,
Speaker 1:And now you will no longer be able to profit from it just because it admitting it, then you have to admit that you've profited from it. Yes. And that you are continuing to profit from it.
Speaker 2:And that's why I think Robin Dangelo specifically says she profits from being white and that's the way that our society is kind of built. So as long as she's partaking in that, you can say that, you know, I don't know how you stop that because we're born a certain color, you know? Um, but yeah, I think to end it on like an optimistic note, cause I know, I think what you're saying is changing, you know, the statues and the things like that. Those are positive changes. We don't have to take it down to this like negative place, just acknowledge everybody, you know, make it inclusive. And I think having this podcast is a step towards being inclusive within our own families and friends circles, and being able to have conversations like the ones you and I are having and giving people some ideas of things to talk about with their friends and family, because I've actually realized among my own family that we don't really discuss a lot of racial, racially charged issues. You know, of course we see a headline, there's a story, social and, you know, racial injustice, something that everybody's seeing. And we talk about how sad it is, but only since we've started this podcast, have I been able to kind of articulate my thoughts and feelings more specifically about the topic and the response has been so encouraging? You know, I mean, just a quick shout out to my, I think I told you he was so excited about the podcast and specifically tying it back to Obama saying, he's the one that's going to be able to make things better for this, you know, COVID George Floyd, Trump period that we're in, he's the one that's going to be able to make things better, even though he can't get reelected. You know, again, that's what it's going to take someone, you know, he's the only guy for the job basically. So I hope that he's right. And I'm excited to hear my dad speaking like that. And I'm excited to have those conversations with them because it brings us closer to our own family to have those discussions, because it's something that probably, you know, if we weren't doing this podcast, I might not have had an opportunity to have that sort of open dialogue with him, you know? And I hope, you know, to end it on an optimistic note, like I was saying, I hope it inspires other people and white people like myself who don't know exactly what they can do to make a difference or how they can make things better. Start small, just have a conversation with your family, you know, about your feelings on this. Cause if you're like me, you haven't really had a lot of reasons to have those discussions until now because we are the majority, you know, and it's not our people per se that are being oppressed. So if you're going to church, if you believe in, um, God, and in all of those things and you spend time going to church, like take it up a notch and talk about what's going on right now and how it's affecting humanity and you know, the racial divide in this country and see kind of where it takes you. Yeah. Cause we can, all we can all in our small circles do better. Yup.
Speaker 3:Well, awakens that does it for us today. That was episode five religion. We hope that you learned something and will apply truth to every area of your life. Thanks for listening. Thank you for listening to awakened in America. If you enjoy today's podcast, be sure to subscribe and leave a review. You can also find us on Instagram at awakened in America. That's awakened underscore in underscore America and remember be mindful, be grateful. And most of all be you.