Tonight I'm a Bitch Babe (#191)

In this raw and unfiltered episode, Mike and Doug dive deep into the emotional whirlwind of the recent election results, expressing their frustrations, disappointments, and hopes for the future. They navigate complex topics like voter turnout, the power of social media echo chambers, and how political figures shape—and sometimes divide—our perceptions. 

Key Topics:

1. Election Reflections:
   • The impact of voter turnout and explores why many eligible voters stayed home this election.
   • Doug vents his frustrations about the current political climate, particularly about how the media and social media algorithms feed polarized views.
   • Kamala Harris’s campaign and the barriers faced by women and people of color in politics.
2. Echo Chambers and Social Media:
   • Mike opens up about getting swept into TikTok's echo chambers and reflects on how quickly it feeds confirmation bias.
   • The importance of staying aware of these digital bubbles, how they influence emotions, and their role in elections.
3. Tripping with Men:
   • The importance of spaces for men to connect, find camaraderie, and be wild.
   • Sometimes, all we need is a safe space to let it all out, to howl at the moon, and reconnect with ourselves and each other

Transcript

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I mean, lately we've just been doing the podcast and just kind of like doing it at our kind of whenever we're available type of thing, you know? Yeah. huh. What do you think about doing like a, what do I think about doing like a live one where people can sit and hang out with us in this setting right here? I like that we can share the link, right? All we do is say, it's going to be such and such date at such and such time. You know, you buy a, you know, pay a buck and get in, you know, type of thing so that people can like join us, ask questions, tell, give their input, you know, that kind of thing. Would that be a thing or am I, am I totally fucking crazy? It's the thing that Riverside does too. we can have, yeah, then we see the comments when they join. I think it'll be super fun. I think we should do it. How do we, how do people, now that we don't have an Instagram. I think just via, I think we just like decide on a day, announce it here. And then, I mean, I guess we what? Create an, like probably through Eventbrite we could do a thing or, or through, I mean, really through text or signal or we really, we could do it anyway. Yeah. put it in the show notes. So let's talk about it and we'll put the next date in the show notes. yeah. No, think... I mean, we were just talking about like I'm I'm in such a bad mood right now. And it's not because like it's not because I'm six foot five white, privileged and male. That's not why I'm in a bad mood. Like this is a great this is this is like the this is like the greatest time in history for for us. Right. I mean, that's what we keep doing, keep doing stuff to keep us in power. Fuck that shit, dude. I've got kids, I got daughters. You know what mean? I got a wife, got friends that are women, I got friends that are queer, got friends that are sort of like gender neutral or gender fluid, I got women. what the? Dude, I'm kinda ticked, bro. Is that crazy? so, no, mean, I've been, this has been a, this has been a really, really rough one for me. Really rough day. Like, even surprisingly to me rough. Like, I knew I'd be bummed, but I've been bummed, I've been feeling dread. Like, almost like existential dread. I think dread is such a good word for a man. Existential dread. yeah, it's like, I've had to keep reminding myself all day. Like, don't let your mind, I'm in grief. Don't let your mind go to the stories. Like, you know, don't fuel the stories that your mind's feeding you because any, you know, if bad trips have taught me anything, it's that don't feed the story in your mind. You know, calm, like, take deep breaths. Be with the feeling, be with the sensation. Sit with the sensation. And then the trip will change around you. But if you feed the story of the bad trip in your mind, go, just, it's constant. You're just feeding the loop, you're feeding the beast. And so I've had to keep reminding myself. All day, Mike, you're feeding the beast right now. And so you kind of just sit back, take some deep breaths and yeah, feel terror and dread. you know, I know that in moments like these, triggers old shit. You know, it triggers like, probably something from my childhood, definitely something ancestral, you know, it's like, so it's deeper than just the election, but like the election is bad enough, man. Yeah, did. So I posted something on TikTok today. Did you see what I posted on TikTok today? I've been actively refusing TikTok today. Because I'll tell you about the TikTok part and why I've been doing that. let's talk social. We probably should talk social media in general, right? Yeah, I posted something on TikTok where I basically just said, look, I, you know, whatever you voted, like good on you, more power to you. I love you. Whether you voted for Donald Trump or against Kamala Harris or, or for Kamala Harris and against Donald Trump, like those, that's four different things that I just mentioned, right? Yeah. I also just like, maybe you voted Jill Stein, maybe you voted Libertarian, maybe you voted Constitutional, like who knows how people vote, right? People vote any way they want to. But the big problem in this whole thing was that 18 million people that voted in the last presidential election did not vote in this election. Yeah, man, we were talking about turnout yesterday morning. We were talking about turnout. And I thought it was in the bag because I thought we'd get the turnout. Yeah, man, I got no, I got, listen, I got, I have a way that I feel about people who vote for Donald Trump, but I kind of expected there to be 70 million votes for Donald Trump. I, you and I talked about it on this podcast. I was like, dude, he's winning this thing. I didn't know he would win it by getting less votes than he got last time because I thought people cared about women's rights and cared about democracy and cared about the fucking whole process. And it turns out, know, the TS Eliot that the world ends not with a bang, but a whimper. It's a great, know, TS Eliot wrote, you know, April is the cruelest month. know, TS Eliot, great poet. The democracy ends with people not participating in democracy and just being like, well, you know, here's the thing, like, I'm not, I'm I'm not into that whole thing. You're not into that whole thing. Motherfucker, it's your whole fucking life. You fucking idiot. You're not into it. You're not into it. I mean, like for me, I guess I'm okay. Like living under an oligarchal rule where billionaires decide how I can and can't live my life because I'm just not into democracy. All you have to do is go fill out a little box. All you have to do is go fill out a box. It's the easiest thing ever. now they mail it to you, fill it out at home and you can drop it off. I mean, that's what I did in California. Like I had my mail-in ballot that I dropped off just at a ballot box on a random Friday and got to just fill it out from my own home. But that shocked me, especially when we were hearing the early turnout numbers and everything. And then I just thought... Yeah. So speaking of like the TikTok thing, man, because yeah, you did say, I think Donald Trump's going to win it. And I was with you for like most of the election. You know, I would check the betting markets and it's kind of my thing, right? It is, but even then, you know, the betting markets were 80-20 for Hillary that night that, you know, in 2016. it's like, it only goes so far, but. But then we know when our Mormons on Mushrooms Instagram got shut down. I've been on, I just, we've talked about this like either last episode or the one before, just like how much I'm into TikTok lately. And I got sucked into a TikTok echo chamber. I was like, someone told me to check out this one woman's account and she gets on and she talks about she's been tracking politics all her life and she's a... strategists and all this and with so much confidence said, Kamala's got this thing. We got the numbers. I'm looking at early vote numbers. I'm looking at like, which just was so much confidence. I was like, damn. She's like, don't look at the polling. The polling's not capturing enthusiasm. There's things that polling can't capture because they have to determine a likely voter. And those assumptions change so much, especially in like times like this. So they're like, you know, so I let, I've been, I started listening to her and then all of sudden the algorithm starts feeding me more like that. Right. And so over the last couple of weeks, I've accumulated like six or seven people who were all saying the same thing. And they're all like, don't look at the polls. Like, even one was commenting because someone had commented on one of his videos that like, but what about every, any given Sunday? And he's like, yeah, that analogy. Well, they were kind of just like, look, you say Kamala's got this, any given Sunday, you know, using a football reference, like you don't know what's going to happen. he, and the guy responded, he's like, no, but it's, it's not any given Sunday because we're already in the middle of the fourth quarter. We've seen the early voting numbers. We're seeing what people are doing. We're seeing, he's like, we've won all we have to, it's over. So I was like, I believed it man. And I was in it. To me they were making good points. I was like, so clearly I found myself in a TikTok echo chamber. Yeah, you and I talked about that today, should we? I like, I... I mean, is social media... destroying us as human beings. I know, I think we're getting sucked into it. think it's new. I think we're in the adolescence of all this, of the internet and then especially social media. And I think we're going through, we're learning in cycle, know, cycles. Like at first, like with Facebook, you know, eventually we're like, you know, maybe it's not a good idea just to keep, type in all caps and posts and get in arguments with all your aunts and uncles and their friends. And then we moved on from Facebook. people are still on Facebook, but you know what I mean? We've moved to these different platforms and we're learning different things. And is that too optimistic to say? That I think we're learning about echo chambers and I don't know. I don't know if we are. I mean, it's just you and me talking here, Mike. Have you and I learned from inserting ourselves into echo chambers? No, I just got into one. I found myself in one. me too. Me too. Yeah. Sorry, go ahead. I was just going to say, I noticed it yesterday too, when, cause someone, one of these people I was talking about posted some tweet that like, whatever you call it now on that fucking platform, posted like, kind of like all men get out and vote and kind of, you know, a request for all men to get on vote. And one of, one these Trump guys and the lady I was following on, on TikTok was like, Look, they're melting down. They're already melting down. They know they don't have the vote. So I decided to go over to X to see for myself. Found that post, but no, he had so many other posts of like, it was like the flip of what I was seeing. So I was seeing all these videos of women crying after they voted saying, you guys won't believe it. I was there in line. I've been the reddest county in Indiana and People were giving me thumbs up, people were wearing blue. I've never seen women get out and vote like this. I've never seen that. And then I'm over on X and this guy's posting pictures of men in line, like lines just with like mostly men in the line saying kind of, look, look at this guys. got this. But by the way, if you are a white man and you are excited because so many other white men are voting in an election, Fuck you. but for me it was that I'm like, shit, I'm seeing the other side of the echo chamber right here. So I spent a big portion of last night and this morning talking to my talking to the women that matter most to me in my life and talking about to the queer people that matter most to me in my life. And that's a pretty tough conversation because like, I'm gonna be okay. Nothing's being taken away from me, you know? Even in the most, even in the most... wild speculative world of the Republicans won the presidency, the House, the Senate, and they have control of the Supreme Court, which is currently accurate. Even there, whatever they want to do, I'm okay. You know what mean? The problem is the way we've radicalized the idea of wokeness, the way we've radicalized the idea of the fragile male ego. the way that we have access to things like X and TikTok and Snapchat and Instagram. Like here's the thing, bro. It used to be like, I've used this example before. I'm gonna use it again because I think it's important. Like it used to be when you were a kid and there was no internet, there was like this weird guy in your neighborhood who might've been a pedophile, might've been like a sort of like homebound couldn't actually get a real job. There was this one guy in your neighborhood. who was just weird, you know? And every like little, every few months this guy would write up a manifesto. He would like type it on his fucking typewriter. know, he'd clickety clack up this little manifesto and he'd make copies of it at the local Kinkos. Remember Kinkos? That doesn't exist anymore because we can all print our own fucking shit. And also who's printing paper anymore? Do you know what I mean? You just like send it out on email. But there used to be a guy who did that shit guys. Like everybody who's listening to this. There used to be a guy in every neighborhood who printed out a weird newsletter and it was like kind of his manifesto about like, I'm crazy. we, you know, the work, earth is flat and, here's some other real crazy shit I've, I believe. And he would go door to door. would, he would like leave it in your like door jam, you know, and everybody Republican Democrat and everything in between in the eighties and nineties would be like old Brad. What a crazy motherfucker. That's what we would say. We would just be like, that guy has no say in American politics. He's just a fucking nut. But the internet brought together every single Brad in every single neighborhood and they created a community about it. They created 4chan and they create Jesus Christ. Elon Musk is the richest guy on planet earth and he is the Elon Musk is the king of the incels. He's the king of the conspiracy theory nerd who still can't bro you are the richest person on planet earth and you still can't get a girl you are a fucking dork you're a fucking nerd is what Elon Musk is I Elon Musk I hope you're monitoring this shit I hope you have like robots that are monitoring this you are a fucking nerd bro sorry like good job on PayPal way to make your money using your mom and dad's emerald mine that they that they seized control of in South Africa during apartheid and then made you rich, gave you this opportunity to come to America. illegal immigrant, cocksucking bastard who is partaking in American politics. You're a fucking nerd, bro. You use that money to invest in PayPal. You haven't ever written code in your life. You haven't ever done shit in your life. You made your billions because you said Tesla is going to be like, the green energy solution. You made your billions because people believed in you when you were talking about like, let's actually change the world. Let's actually try to make the world a little more efficient. Let's try to make the world a little more convenient. Let's try to save the planet Earth. You sold your soul so you could do jumping jacks as goth MAGA. You fucking dweeb. Holy shit, I'm embarrassed for you. You're the richest guy on earth and I'm embarrassed for you, bro. Dark MAGA hat man, like what the, that was just... am Natalie Maga, I am Darkgoth Maga. You're a fucking geek. Like leave me the fuck alone, you weirdo. Is what I feel about Elon Musk. And I, by the way, I hate on the internet people who go on Twitter and shit on Elon Musk. Get the fuck off Twitter, assholes. He owns it. Get off Twitter. B, I deeply deeply have a problem with this part that I'm about to say. all the things. So people that call him Leon or Elmo or any other version of his name, it's that same thing that I feel like Trump did to like Kamala. Calling her Kamala, calling her Kamala, like intentionally using the wrong name to like somehow, somehow like, I guess, insult her. People who on my side of the aisle who call Elon some version of his name, Leon, Elmo, blah blah blah blah blah blah, you're not clever, you're not cute, you're not doing anything. Call him by his real name, he's a fucking villain, his name is Elon Reeves Musk. You're a villain. You're a James Bond level villain. You're the richest guy on planet Earth. Tell me a version of a dystopian future that involves the richest guy on Earth being on the right side of history. Tell me a version of that. Tell me the matrix. Tell me Mad Max. Tell me, tell me anything. You fucking idiot. Sorry, Mike. I know I'm like, I'm pissed tonight, but like Elon Musk paid for votes. His criminal mother went on the fucking circuit and like talked about the American political system. I don't need South Africans who yearn for apartheid. The good old days of separate, like of, of, of racism. like legal racism, I don't need them influence American politics. And I certainly don't need them influencing the, the marginalized 18 to 30 year old man who can't get a girl because they stink and they don't know how to like interact with women. Therefore voting against women's rights. I don't need those. I don't need those motherfuckers, dude. like, I, sorry, dude, I like they, they, I got, they got no value to me and that's what the world, that's who's voting and all you, all you motherfuckers that didn't go vote, you're the problem. You're part of the problem. Man, I might be, this might be our last episode. maybe, but it's the fall of humanity anyway, Yeah, so how do you really feel, Doug, about everything? I'm sorry, dude. I'm so sorry, Mike. Should we just cut the recording and just chat you and me to do a therapy session? Or is this okay to? No, I think this is great to have on there. I'm not saying we should not do it. just, yeah, I just, it's, I'm, I'm confused. I'm baffled. and I, and maybe it cause I was expecting, well, I got swept up in the moment of, you know, Monday night I'm watching, her rally. Kamala's, Kamala blah, blah, Kamala blah, blah. Yeah, you're very cute everyone who pronounces her name wrong. It's super easy. Everyone on the planet Earth knows how to say the word comma, comma-la. Like it's easy to Motherfuckers who want to intentionally insult her are just expressing their A, sexism, and their B, racism. I told you, dude, Mike, I don't mean to, I never mean to say I told you so, but I told you that this election was gonna prove how deeply sexist slash racist America is. There's no other reason to vote for Donald Trump. No other reason. People who want to get into economics, go ahead and text me at my fucking phone number. I know economics better than you do. Sorry, I got a master's degree in it. Like don't talk to me about the economy. You fucking idiots. Sorry, Mike, I should shut up. Go ahead. You I go ahead. was, I lost my train of thought. What was I talking about? I feel like I am such an asshole dude. I'm sorry like I am I am tirading and I don't mean to I I just I guess a lot of things are still built like pent up inside of me about About not like like like people who are like open about like here's the thing I think that there should be a patriarchal order. I think that Christ is king I think that women are our secondary citizens to men. I think that minorities, especially of skin tone and color and ethnicity, are secondary to white, imperial men. Fine. Vote the way you need to vote to like to to like make up for your small dick. Like, I get it. You got to do what you got to do. But like the people who are like, well, my parents raised me to be a Republican. like, what do what do you think that even means? Like, what do you think that even means in your mind? Was that mean? Same. My parents are the same. was, I was bred, born and bred to be a Republican and a Mormon. And then I had an experience where I'm like, wait, the world isn't like I was taught it was. And instead of like, wait, this world is different. And instead of doubling down on that shit and being like, wait, no, I'm going to like, blah, blah, blah, blah, put my fingers in my ear. I'm like, let me get curious about this because this is clearly not how I was taught the world exists. And, and ironically that occurred to me on my Mormon mission. So I was on a Mormon mission, but I went to Brazil and found, I was in these dirt poor areas and they were, so much more content. And here I was preaching happiness and I was depressed as fuck, anxious as fuck, not feeling happy, doing everything right from a wealthy white family in Utah, privileged family. Here I am and their lives are more full and rich and here I am being like, hey, can I teach you the plan of happiness? All of sudden, it's called that. So, hey, you guys, see you guys are happy. You've got friends, you're loving life, you know. And here, let me tell you how to be happy. Would you like to know how to really be happy? I know you have like literal carnival. You're like a pretty fucking happy people frankly. So when that happened to me, instead of just doubling down and being like, well, no, you grow the fuck up and you say, this world's a big place. And maybe I should get a little curious about this world. And yeah, it comes with like, it's completely disorienting. Your whole world flips upside down. But like, Yeah, grow up. What? You're laughing over there. dude, is such a good... Mike, I just feel like I want to get more detailed about my critique of the American political system. May I? Yeah, I think get into the nitty-gritty. I mean, it's it's who cares now. So maybe I shouldn't talk more. Should I just shut my fucking mouth and let's talk about doing drugs? No, I've got no, yeah. to talk about a couple of things because there are people that say like, listen, I'm not a racist, I'm not a sexist, I'm not a bigot, I'm just voting on basic economic principles. I'm voting on Indian inflation. Things are more expensive now than they were today when they were in Trump's reign, the economy, blah, blah, blah. Here's the thing. No, no, that's true. If you use the market, which is a really bad indicator of economic prosperity, the market is at all time highs right now. When I say the market, I'm talking about the stock market. I'm talking about like the S &P 500, the Dow Jones Industrial, the NASDAQ, like every indicator. And that includes precious metals. mean, every indicator is at all time highs under the Joe Biden economy, right? But that's not a very good indicator of economic growth and stability. Things that are good indicators of economic stability are the metrics that we use for gauging inflation. those are things like GDP. When I say GDP, mean gross domestic product. What I mean by GDP, for those of you who are not economists, that is what we produce. that creates value in this country. That's what GDP means. So if you sell something that you produced and generated from this country, that adds to GDP. The other thing is employment. We have historically low unemployment numbers, historically low unemployment numbers. To the point where we need to have a better accounting of unemployment numbers because that doesn't really truthfully reflect people who have become accustomed to having a side hustle and being partially employed or people who are not looking for employment and have removed themselves from the job market and are doing gig economy type of things. When I say gig economy, I'm talking about like DoorDash, Uber, Lyft, that kind of thing. So those are pretty fairly accurate indicators of economic development and people who want to say like, well, the economy was better under Trump. You're just wrong. You're just wrong. It's not an opinion, it's not a subjective thing. You're just fucking wrong and you don't understand how markets work, how a free market works. People want to talk about, I like laissez-faire free market economics. Okay, that's cool, man. Let's do it. Let's see how the free market treats some of these capitalists who cheat the American consumer. Well, we have backstops in place to protect these fucking cheaters from defrauding. the American consumer. But we're going to still get into it and say, what about how the price of groceries, what about inflation? What about inflation as a thing? Cool, man. Inflation, a lot of people think the price of my gas and groceries has gone up. The price of my gas and groceries has gone up. No, inflation measures the value of the $1, like the value of the United States dollar. That only counts here in America because that's the currency that we use as our national currency. It can be something different in Russia, Brazil, Taiwan, China, know, inflation exists. Now, global inflation has been a problem ever since our whole global economy shut down because of the COVID-19 pandemic. Whether you believe that that was a thing or not doesn't matter. It does not matter at all, actually. Like, good on you. If you believe that it was a hoax, if you believe that it was a whole thing, fine. Good on you. I love you. You're my best friend. You can't deny that it shut down the economy and that the American political system, under Donald Trump actually, by the way, issued what we call stimulus checks. Remember the whole thing, where you got stimulus checks? I got some. So there's a thing that happens when you just inject new money into the economy. When you create more dollar bills, you devalue the number of dollar bills that are out there. That's just math. If there's 100 dollar bills and you create 10 more dollar bills, you have devalued those 100 dollar bills by 10%. That is just how that works. And we did that a bunch of times. We injected cash into the free market, not only into people's bank accounts, but also we did this thing that's called, it used to be called quantitative easing, but that's illegal under the United States government. So now we just call it a different thing. We don't call it quantitative easing anymore. We just call it repos, which is the Federal Reserve buys stocks. They buy them nightly. They inject cash into the market using in invented money that doesn't exist. just buy stocks and then they resell them in the morning. That props up the value of stocks. Is this the most boring? This might be the most boring conversation we've ever had on this on this podcast. This might be the most boring conversation we've ever had on the podcast. And I'm OK. I'm OK owning that because so many people have tuned out or don't care or don't listen because of how boring it is. And yet this is the thing that motherfuckers wanted to try to vote on. And you're fucking wrong. You're dead wrong. You're just wrong about how how it works. so I was even on CNN this morning and they had two things that really bugged me. One was it was the economy, stupid. Kind of like that was the reason. Like the reason Trump won or the issue that he won on was the economy. No, that's just the excuse the exit voters gave. Cause what are they supposed to say when they, I'm scared of women. I'm sexist, I'm misogynistic, I'm a racist. They're not going to say that in an exit poll. So they say economy. And then the second one was what, where did Kamala Harris go wrong? Did she ran a flawless campaign? from, I mean, joining the race in what July to there to like, I mean, it was flawless. Where she went wrong was she was born with the wrong set of parts. That's the only place she went wrong. Wrong skin tone and the wrong fucking thing dangling between her legs. Yeah, that's it. Okay. If that's so I didn't click on the article because if that's what it's going to say, then I'm like, okay, yeah, that's where she went wrong. And that's what... Yeah. That's what I to say. I know. of Listen, I just went on a I get it I just want an eight-minute tirade about how the free market works Like I'm not I'm not trying to pretend like I'm James Madison or Adam Grant like I'm not trying to be some kind of but like please go on about About because there's a thing here Mike about the expectations of Kamala Versus the expectations of Donald Trump Donald Trump our expectations are in the gutter about that Because he can just say True, true nonsense. He can just say truthful, like he can just say the most crazy bullshit anybody's ever heard. And because we expect him to lie, we're just like, that crazy old Donald Trump, man, he just does, he just says weird shit, doesn't he? He's shaved weird. He does weird things with his hands. His face is painted. He bullies. listen, Republicans should be standing up and saying like the first coup that this dude accomplished was a of the Republican Party because if you'll remember, he bullied and insulted and made negative comments towards Republicans back in 2015 and 16 and they have been acquiescing to his bulliness for the last nine years. He doesn't represent conservative value. Are you fucking kidding me? Donald Trump represents conservative values about like family and no gays and fucking abortion and fuck. You think Donald Trump represents that shit? Are you dumb as shit? Do you want to like, can I sell you shit? got, please contact me if you believe that Donald Trump represents any of those things, cause I want to sell you the most expensive. I'll shit into a bag and send it to you and tell you that it's Happily, gladly, please. If you believe Donald, if you believe that Donald Trump is a representative of Christian values, you might want to check yourself into a, into a, into a, an actual like facility cause they need to study you. You're, you're, you might be dumb. Sorry, Mike, should we end this? I'm so, I'm so, I think so many of us are feeling this way right now, I don't know, are we or is it just, are you and me just in our own, do you and I have our heads up our own asses? I think at least 70 million people are filming this way today, That's what I think. Yeah. But guess what? 73 million feel differently. 73 million people! How does anyone watch January 6th? And that's just one thing, just one aspect. How does that happen? They watch the events there and then vote for the guy. I don't know. I honestly don't know because listen, I hate to admit this, but like you and I are on a text thread with, I mean, it's a text thread that I started and it's you, me and 10 other of my very, very best homeboys, right? There's 12 of us on that thread. Half of them are Trump guys. Half of them. And a few of those dudes listen to this podcast and so they're gonna like contact me and be like, dude, you called me a fucking moron. Yeah, I love you guys. Listen, I love you guys. Like honestly, let's hang. Let's go do something tonight. I'm down. Listen, you guys have always. You can't say that you don't pay attention, you don't care about this shit, and then vote the other way, and not expect me to be like, I think that you might be dumb as shit. I lost where I was going with it. Ha! Mike, this thing's off the rails. It's just me on my soapbox. Should we talk about spirituality for a minute? Do want to talk about some of the experiences that we've had recently? Because we've had some cool experiences lately, and I think we're going to continue to have some cool experiences. Well, one of things I wanted to talk about with. Why didn't this bring us back to Trump? I was just talking, I want to talk about the, just the lyrics to your song were coming up. The one that we then posted on. Yeah. But the, him pedaling Bibles and you know, the upside down Bible in his hand is even know the words of the anthem. Do you even hear when you say that? Like I know those are lines from a song I wrote but like even thinking about that like listen all the things I said negatively about Trump are true but like the dude is good for comedy like standing there literally holding an upside-down Bible and then he he doesn't know the right words to the star spangled like how do you not know the words to the star spangled banner even if you're just like even if you're just a casual person who doesn't give a shit about patriotism like watching watching the Super Bowl, watching the World Series, like everywhere. The Starswingle banner is like everyone knows that song. It's like I'm a child of God. Everybody knows that song. I think it was Trevor Noah or some comedian who made fun of us because he's like, you guys sing the national anthem at all your sporting events, even when there's no other countries there. It's like, that doesn't happen anywhere else. Like, yeah, if France is playing England, we'll sing the national anthems, but like, we don't sing it when it's just our own country is, I mean, that's what his bit was, but we sing it all the time. Dude, we sing the National Anthem. I can't think of a song, Happy Birthday, okay. Happy Birthday is the song I know better than the National Anthem. Although, frankly, not really. Like, Happy Birthday only has like, what? Happy Birthday to you. Like, Happy Birthday only has like six lyrics you have to remember, right? Happy Birthday to you, Happy Birthday to you, Happy Birthday dear. Insert name here. Happy birthday to you. Okay, easy song to remember. The national anthem has a bunch of lyrics. I know that shit by heart. I know it by heart. I know all three verses, Well, I did when I was Mormon, because I used to read the Mormon hymnal and get inspired about all the different verses. felt I was so patriotic, so patriotic. when our cause is just, what's that whole line like? Then, then. then conquer. must win our cause. must when our cause it is justice. Like dude, that is a war anthem, bro. Like that shit is crazy. And this be our motto in God is our trust. Holy shit, do know, dude, you do know the national anthem word for word, man. Francis Scott Key would be proud of you, Mike. I hope he would be. That's all I wanted to do is make him proud. But yeah, so bring that up because we've had some cool music experiences and doing Dragon Cat music. and just talk about some of the cool shit we've done lately? Please. I'm sorry that I, Mike, I'm okay if we start the recording right now. bow on the election talk. just want to talk about and just hit on again. Like if you're it, like be it's a grieving process. Like don't let your mind get caught up in the story of it and the millions of different stories it's telling. Fill it. And then you know what? Yeah, we can worry about those things, but. it just gets some clarity. And I don't know why I'd give advice, but I was just giving advice to myself there. you know, so when I listen back to this, I'll be like, okay, yeah, Mike, that's right. Don't, don't spin the story you're saying right now. We, we, dude, one thing I love, one thing that I love that the podcast has become is like just this thing where you and I, you and I just use it as like a way of like, yeah, you know what? Encouragement to each other. We have been trying our, our darnedest haven't we? I know shit's crazy, but we've tried hard for the last five years. but you know what? That's I think that's all it kind of is man. Like like when we when we were tripping together last weekend. man, I love tripping with you, Mike. You're my favorite person to trip with. I have some people that I love tripping with. Literally, I have some people that I love tripping with. You are my all time number one favorite. I'm glad we're mutual in that, Doug. Well, because I can be, I've never, I don't, I can be my weird ass self with you, man. I'm just, get weird. And part of it was like, I felt like I could just vent any fucking thing and just say, look, it's hard right now. It's fucking hard. And it's hard because of this, hard because of this, hard because of this. Even voice stuff that like, I would be canceled for saying out loud. You know, but to have a safe space to voice that shit. You know what mean? Yeah. that's the other part of that. The other end of that shit is like, you can say whatever you want to say. Like, who cares? You know what mean? point. But what I'm trying to say was the safe space and it was good to like to get wild and weird. Yeah, which part do you want to talk about? I want, well, I want to, truthfully, I want to talk about our first night, where it just you and me. Like, I think we should talk about each night, but I think we should start with the first night. that first night. We got weird with it, Mike. Like we were... Like we were very weird. reality bending for me. There was a time when I was like, I had that experience of waking up from the dream of this life and then being disoriented and being like, okay, am I, are there gonna be people here? They're like, finally Mike just woke up, know? Finally, you know, I woke up from my pod or whatever that I plugged into to come experience earth. And you guys are all back there laughing, Mike's here, Mike's here, guys. How was it? It was weird. good. Like we should tell people. So we went and we had a thing where we did a kind of a group, you know, get together one night and then we did like a sort of ceremony that we were asked to be there for the second night. But that first night when you flew into town, it was just you and me. And so we got, we tripped pretty hard and It was reality bending. Like we were kind of in a weird space and I just want to say like all the things that like you think about when you're tripping and you're being and you're feeling weird. They all happened. It was awesome. We had the time of our life, but there was one moment that was really super great. Like Mike and I were playing a lot of music and we listen, I'm going to just say the words to this song because it doesn't, it's not a real song and we haven't written it yet and we're still kind of like seeing what's up with it. But that, that night, we were playing some music that had like sort of like this vibe that was like this driving beat that sounded like that sounded like the hooves of a bunch of horses, know, but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but I'm feeding horses Dude, and so I'm playing the guitar, like kind of playing this thing, and I'm not going to, I'm going to tell the whole world, like Mike has his shirt off and he is doing this like sort of dance kind of thing where he is literally like, he's literally galloping like a horse. Like, like, I don't know how Mike, is there a better way for me to explain it? Like you're literally running in place, but you were running in a way that sounded like a galloping horse. Like you were kind of doing like that. Yeah. can hear me banging on my desk, but like you were doing that like sort of like weird pitter patter skip move where it was perfectly timed with my guitar. we were like, dude, we weren't, we were not singing like literal literal words. We were just like, why do angelic courses, courses sound like stampeding horses? sleep on those lyrics, man. They were some... I'm not sleeping on the lyrics, like they're fucking dope as shit, but like, you know, it was just, it was just coming out of us like in the moment and we were just having the time of our life. Picture like, you know, stampeding like a horse. And it's like, stampeding horses. No, that's what it is. stampeding horses, filled with wonder and sounds like thunder. Like we were doing all sorts of weird shit, like it'll come out. We'll, we'll, share the songs as they come out. like that first night. It set the tone for the whole weekend because we had a great second night and a phenomenal third night. had like all of our people that we love. You know what I mean? Like all of our, like I wish that more people were there, but they just couldn't make it. And, also we don't know some of your phone numbers. So send us your fucking phone numbers, assholes. why don't we know your phone number? Then we could just text you about like coming in, joining us for these recordings. Yeah. Man, I just had a thought though. This gets us back to, just, I'm going back to where I was, felt like I was waking up from the dream. You know, people, think when we die, you know, people get in this like image that. of the painting of your grandparents hugging you or something or Jesus hugging you in the sky. And they're like, welcome home, you made it. No, you know what I think it is? It's like I am plugged from this machine kind of thing. Whoa, and wake up. I'm covered kind of with slime because I've been hooked up with this thing and living this life. And you and a few of the people over there, Mike's waking up. Okay, guys, you guys are laughing at me as I'm waking up. No one's laughing at you. We love you. We're like, yes, Mike. No, yeah. I mean, I know. Go ahead. mean though, but I think it's, I just feel like it's much more, it's not so like, it's a little more comical and a little bit more like trickstery than the love and light thing you have in your mind of the afterlife, you know? But you know me that I kinda like that trickster stuff, you know? Like can't help myself. Like I like getting down with it. I've been warned against it, I get it. Like people tell me like, there's dark fucking energy there. Okay, fair enough. But there's too much comedy going on. to take any of it seriously, right? It's just too fucking funny. it's, the only option is to laugh at how fucking funny some of this shit is or else it's cry and cuddle up into the fetal position, right? Which is also, there's time and place for that too. But that's what I was feeling. So I would cycle through, was just, it was wild. We went deep, man. We went so deep. We did go deep, like the whole weekend. One of the things I love about us is that like, you know, I don't think that we are in a constant, I don't think that you and I are in a constant state of altered consciousness. But I do think that like every few months you and I get together and we go fucking hard. It's kind of fun, right? And then that second night it was just like. people swapping stories, people swapping songs, singing each other's songs, just having the time of our life. And then that, and then it was, it was my favorite crew. And then that third night was so epic, like the backdrop. was also my favorite crew. Bro, that might have been like one of the all timers that night. You know what mean? Like we were like, we were weird with it that night. but that's what I loved about it. And even said it as we were mid-trip, because, you know, I was laughing at the, how this, you know, I got invited to go to a retreat in November and, you know, I was like, I've never been to a men's retreat. Maybe it's time for me to go to a men's retreat, you know? Maybe that would be good for me. And I look it up and I'm sure it would be good for me. I'm sure it'd be healing on so many levels. But I look it up and it's like way of the warrior. it's like, we're getting back, you know, and they've got like, like, you know, it's just like, so like we're warriors, you know? And I love that. And man, we had plenty of warrior moments over the weekend, but I'm not just a fucking lawyer, man. I'm also a stampeding horse. And I also want to dance like a, like a, like a. I want to like it with the drum and get all weird and dance like a fairy king sometimes, you know, or like, Mike, your calling in life might be dancing a specific dance called the Stamping Horses. Cause I don't know what you were doing that night, but it was perfect. Like you looked like a horse. I don't know how to tell you that in a way that's complimentary. It was the best compliment I could give. I think it's the new rain dance. think people will dance however I was dancing will become the new rain dance. to like, I mean, that's, is that hubris to say? Okay, good. Frankly, I think that you're downplaying it a little bit. like, so everyone will be doing the stampeding horse. It'll be so great. you know, it's funny because like, like one of the things that comes up for me in those things is like, I, I, started, I started, I started putting pressure on myself to like, make sure I'm healing and learning. But then one of the things that I, one of the things I learn while I'm like super like stressed about trying to heal and learn is like, by the way, allowing yourself to really dig into this and laugh and have some fun. is a huge release. It's a huge part of like the whole way life works, man. And sometimes like, especially in like the, listen, if you listen to the first 45 minutes of this podcast, like if you listen to me tirade about literal, like basic economics, it's like the only thing I can do is laugh at this stupid motherfucker because he's off his rocker. I am off my rocker, but I, you know what? I like to laugh about some of that shit and I like to have a good old time about it. So. I also like get crazy. I haven't said this to you on my first night. I'm like, isn't it just great to have a space where you can just get fucking crazy? And I'm twitching, I'm dancing, I'm flowing, I'm yelling. kept whooping, whooping, whooping, whooping. Yeah. dude, you were fucking go- Dude, by the way, you were like- Yipping and whooping doesn't quite cover it. You were like making guttural, ancient sounds. It's a sound that's been coming out of me lately. There's like a Banshee element to it even. It's weird, but it feels so good to do. And you know what it reminds me of is that the last night when we did your howling song, your gun song, dude, we've never howled like that before. have not. No, we have not. We, man, we, I haven't played that song for a long time to the point where I forgot a couple of the words, which, you know, that happens. That's fine. But like that crew was howling in a way that growling, howling, yipping and yelping in a way that no one ever has during that song. It made me feel alive. Yeah, you know how usually when you sing that song, know, the first couple yelps, people are kind of getting into it. And then by the end we had, you know, people are yelping and howling from the very get-go on that one. was, and it was so cathartic. So like, and you know, maybe they do this in the way of the warrior retreat. Maybe they do like a howl like a wolf, but. the whole thing is that they're yelping and howling way better than we could ever like plan for, but I don't think so. That was the best thing ever. It was the best thing ever. And so, I just loved doing music that night. I was just... That was a pretty amazing Yeah. Well, like, one of the things, I guess I was having a little bit of a full house moment there. like, okay. The lesson that I got from that weekend is that just like, you know, I, was fucking multi-dimensional man. And it was like, just lean into all of it, lean into like, okay. I wanted to dance like a, almost like a ballerina at one point. Yeah, let's do it. then I wanted to like. be a warrior with my shirt off and like grunt. Yeah, do it. know, go and, and I don't know, there's just a freedom to do that, to be in a space with other men just doing that, man. So to even tie it back to the Donald Trump thing, I think men are craving that. So you talk about, you talk about the, you talk about the incels, right? I think what they're really craving and is a space where they can voice all their weird shit and be with other men and just like have other, you know, because then you get it out and then you don't need to, you don't have to have a woman validate you to that point. Does that make sense? Dude, I'm honestly feeling a little bit, I don't know, man, I'm feeling a little bit, not chastised, but just that I wanna kinda walk back some of the insults that I spewed at the beginning of this thing, because it's like, yeah, I think people are just desperate for a connection. They're desperate, right? God. found that online and they found that, if I spew all this awful shit, then I do get some connection. People are listening to me now. I have a platform now. I have connection. I think if it's like a deeper connection, you know, in person, not validating that, like, what they're saying is right. but validating that the feelings that they're feeling are okay. Right, validating their existence and the way they're feeling, the way that they're feeling marginalized and unheard is okay. The way they're feeling that, you know what, I am, maybe I do like hugs from guys, maybe I am a little gay, maybe I am all the way gay, I don't know, you know? Or maybe, or maybe I just need some, maybe I just need to feel valued. Yeah. I'm trying to give all these different like scenarios of what I think what men need. And I think maybe, maybe that's maybe we just solve the world there, man. If get guys together and doing that shit, then they'll stop spewing their hatred on the internet and voting against women. maybe we can finally be a part of this awakening of the feminine and the divine feminine rising and whatever and we can do that shit instead of tearing it down. maybe men need other men. Maybe we do need men's groups and men's retreats. But you know what? want to do it. If we're doing a fucking men's retreat, let's do a men's retreat, Doug. Let's do a men's retreat. Let's do it like in our way like we did last weekend. I mean, that's kind of did. Okay, let's, let's, hey, do you know what? Let's, let's, let's plan one. Let's put a date out there for the world. Like let's do a, let's do one of these recordings live. Let's put a date out there in the show notes and let's do a men's retreat and put it in the, let's, you and I can go offline and figure out what day that works, but let's fucking do one, man. I'm down. I am so down. men's retreat like that, but in a way of like, you guys, we're just going to get fucking weird and warrior-y. But there's no pressure to do that. We're just going to be us. I realize how much, I guess that's one of the things. The first night I loved you and I doing it. I loved having more of our people like on the next night and it was coed, you know, it was a group. But then the last night, It was just guys and I've never I've never tripped with just guys like that. And for me, there was something so freeing about being with other guys and being weird. Guys, listen, I know that we talk a lot about the divine feminine, but also guys out there, you're valid, you're real, you're true, we see you, we are the same. Let's fucking hang, bro. Come on, let's do something cool together. Let's do this. And I should say, because we're talking about a guy's retreat, that includes trans-gendered men. If you identify it as Mel, I think it's straight. Yeah, man, anyone who's like, want to go to the like, here's the thing. Anyone who's like, I want to go to the guys retreat. OK. All right. Fine. OK. There's not going to be any like. You know, we're not going to try to do any sexual tension or anything like that. It's going to a guys retreat. We're going to take our shirts off and howl the moon. OK, let's do it. Amen. Ah-ho. I think maybe that's it. Is that it? Any last parting words? let's, no, I mean, I feel like I talked too much. Dude, we're gonna listen back to this thing. I'm gonna send you a text that's gonna be like, sorry that I talk so much and I talk so vehemently. Like, I don't mean to be that way, man, sorry. I'm just pretty butt hurt today. I'm pretty butt hurt today. you're voicing a lot of people are butthurt. My only thing is I feel like, I hope I just can't have a hard time keeping up with you. I have hard time keeping up with you sometimes. I don't know what you mean by that because like I feel like I probably just talked over our conversation. I feel like an asshole tonight a little bit to be honest with you. You know what? Sometimes we gotta be assholes. we gotta be, you know. Ah-ho, let's do it. End of story.