Let's Get Canceled (#195)

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The conversation delves into the captivating saga surrounding the murder of a healthcare CEO, exploring the complexities of the suspect's manifesto, media portrayal, and societal implications. The hosts discuss the nature of violence, personal boundaries, and the influence of women in society, while also critiquing the current state of woke culture and the importance of intention in representation. The dialogue reflects on personal experiences and the evolving landscape of societal norms and expectations.

• The saga of the adjuster is multifaceted and captivating.
• Luigi Mangione's manifesto reveals deep-seated thoughts on the healthcare system.
• Media portrayal can significantly influence public perception of individuals.
• The complexity of violence is intertwined with human nature and survival instincts.
• Boundaries are essential for personal identity and self-protection.
• Pacifism and aggression coexist within individuals, creating internal conflict.
• The influence of women in society is powerful and necessary for change.
• Secrets can shape personal relationships and self-perception.
• Political dynamics often reflect deeper societal issues and personal experiences.
• Intention in art and representation is crucial for authenticity.

Chapters

00:00
The Captivating Saga of the Adjuster

03:35
Unpacking the Manifesto and Its Implications

06:46
The Arrest and Its Aftermath

09:48
Media Narratives and Public Perception

12:34
The Nature of Violence and Human Instincts

15:36
The Role of Secrets and Boundaries

18:45
Kinks, Nature, and the Human Condition

21:49
The Evolution of Wolves and Humans

24:46
The Political Landscape and Division

27:44
The Power of Public Opinion

30:42
Rationality vs. Animal Instincts in Voting

32:38
The Flaws of Perfectionism in Women

36:45
Challenging the Patriarchy

41:47
The Complexity of Masculinity

45:35
The Dilemma of Corporate Ethics

50:41
Woke Culture and Authenticity

01:00:34
Resting in Intentions

01:01:57

Transcript

0:47

No, the only thing I have to talk about is the saga that's been captivating me for the past week that I can't. Yeah. fuck yeah, dude. Sorry. Yeah, go ahead. The saga that's been captivating everyone. I mean, I'm talking about the saga of the adjuster. can't, I can't turn away, man. I can't, this, this story has so many layers to it. And I don't know. I just, I, I get excited, but to read news about it, get, I've been on TikTok reading people's comments. I've been, yeah, I don't even know where to, I don't even know where to really, really to begin with it. Have you read, so there's like a lot of like, I mean, who knows kind of like what's verified, what's false, what's real, but have you read any of these, you know, quote unquote manifestos or posts from this dude? Luigi Mangione, I think is his name, right? And of course we're talking about the guy who's been accused or they're being held for the murder of the United healthcare CEO in New York. no, I, I mean, I've read, I read a review that he had written on Ted Kaczynski, the Unabomber's book. And that, that review got me thinking. Right, dude, he's not, This cat is well versed and he's well read. He presents himself as being thoughtful, I guess is what I would try to say. Do you know what I mean? There's times when it's like, somebody does a school shooting. and you get there through back channels or fucking stupid channels, stupid channels I would say, like Reddit and stuff like that. You find somebody's manifesto and it's just kind of whining. Mm-hmm. This dude is like, you he's talking about like the second amendment makes me the, something about like the second amendment makes me the personal CEO and leader of my own private militia. And therefore I must decide using the second amendment, I must decide what is mine to defend and what is an act of war and the healthcare industry is an act of war. dude, he, He does not like go lightly into this whole thing. It's pretty interesting. Which is interesting because he fits the bill as far as like, you know, the potential suspect. And at the same time, I'm like scratching my head because as calculated and like, so we know that he was killed in like broad daylight in New York City. And then the guy took off on an e-bike, slipped away, slipped away from everyone. They only have like this grainy footage of like CCTV footage of it. And, you know, took the time to use or like engrave the bullets with defend, deny, what are the three D words you did. I'm still trying to figure that out. Like what? There's a lot to this plot that is unseen so far. mean, we're still in the early stages of what the hell this whole thing is, You texted me last night. This is like the cold open. And I think it is. right. It feels like the cold open of a thriller, of a spy thriller or a... Eh, spy thriller's not maybe the right word, but like a drama, right? It feels like the cold open. Well, feels like the cold open of a potential like start to the French revolution or something. Cause he, and so it's just, I'm, I'm scratching my head at the fact that, okay, it seems so well planned and orchestrated. And then they find him a week later, kind of wearing the same clothes with the gun still in his backpack with fake IDs and. Yeah, bro. Like, tell me more about what you're... Listen, I don't know shit about this thing. And to speculate would be, to me, like, I would for sure get it wrong. But this dude, like, you've watched the video of the CCTV, right? Yeah. The dude steps out of nowhere, fires, something jams with his gun, fires again, something jam, like maybe a third time, and then just like, pedals off, like pedals off into the early morning light, right? Leaves a backpack full of Monopoly money in Central Park, disappears into Central Park, a week, literally eight days goes by, and then like, We're supposed to believe that they find this guy in Pennsylvania with a manifesto and an actual like, like, I mean, you know, they call it a ghost gun, but basically a gun that can't be traced. Like he's got it on him. The guy who did that shit in the video is now like. hanging on to all of the evidence and being like, I hope nobody catches me here in Pennsylvania. I hope some McDonald's worker who, Mike, there's so much to talk about with this thing. A fucking boomer age McDonald's worker called in the tip to the feds. Yeah. and is currently not getting the $50,000 reward, is fighting for the 50,000. Dude, is there anything more she, she is trying to the reward and they're like going through all the hoops. So just so everybody knows out there, the rewards that are offered at like the post office or like in the old Wild West, that's not a real thing. The feds don't pay out on that shit. They, it's it's it's a, it's a portion of it and it's fucking taxable income. It is taxable. Imagine, imagine what kind of a fucking world we live in when it's like, hey, there's a murderer afoot and we don't know how to find him. And we're going to the public and we're saying, hey, at first it was $10,000 for any information leading to the apprehension of this suspect. And then it became 50,000. I think for a minute there, was like 60,000. There's this money available for any information that leads to the apprehension of this suspect. So your home girl, you're a, you're a boomer who by the way, can't afford your own fucking healthcare who works at McDonald's and you call the, you call the authorities cause you're like, that guy looks like the pictures of the, that I've seen on the internet. This guy who's eating breakfast at our McDonald's here in Pennsylvania. So you call the feds and the feds come, everybody comes like storming in, the local police come in, they arrest him and they transfer him to a holding facility and the holding facility there. we get there, before we get there, what's the process of that? Because I'm assuming they're getting those type of calls all throughout the country on every white guy with good eyebrows. Mike, this story is just beginning. I'm telling you, this story is just beginning. Who knows who this motherfucker that they've got in custody right now? Who knows? Maybe he did it, maybe he did not. But the always thought the eyebrows are one of my better features. And I bet I've been called in based on this. Honestly, Mike, if you were to put a mask on and a hood, you have the eyebrows to be who I consider to be the most eligible bachelor on planet Earth right now. Like, right? Yeah, I know, might go. They're gonna have, they're having the look-alike things everywhere. I might, I might go. I might win. Same. mean, when I say same, I'm agreeing that you should go cause you'll win. You have great eyebrows. don't have, I got the biggest old forehead anybody's ever seen. I look like a bridge troll or like a forest troll who like, who like comes out of the, I demand that you answer riddles and give me gold coins. But you have that look of somebody who could be the times most eligible bachelor. Type of thing, you know with your eyebrows and your face and your fucking nose like give that look at your smile like he is becoming, he is the most eligible bachelor in America right now. For sure he is. And you know, it's funny. god, Mike, should we just get into this thing? I've interrupted you. I've yeah, cause you were going on that. Cause I, I, but I wanted to, cause I'm assuming they're getting tips all over the place and then they, zero in on this guy. And it's interesting, you know, like, look. It's just, guess ever since the election, I've had this whole, you know, we had our election rant. Dude, our election episode is my favorite episode of the podcast. It's got the most hate. The election episode has got the most hate and it's like in my personal life really affected me. It's still my favorite episode. Well, Doug, maybe can we top it this one? Can we just get canceled in this episode? Well, so, geez, yeah, dude, honestly, I was gonna just say that. You sent me the greatest text today where you were like, let's talk about this shit and let's get canceled. honestly, Mike, we probably won't get canceled, but I love that energy coming into like this kind of a conversation. Do you know what I mean? Well, cause I think there's some shadow elements that we need to start fucking owning in America. And, it's, was a wake up call. The election was a wake up call for me. Cause I was so much in the left camp and this is a wake up call again of like, it's not left and right. That's not what we're fighting here. And so same thing. on a Tik TOK video I was watching, they're like, look over the next couple of days, don't, don't fall for what the new, how the news is going to spin. this guy that they've got in custody. All the news sources are owned by the oligarch and it's going to be a smear campaign on this guy they have in custody. And sure enough, they had some video of him today being escorted in the police station and he tries to speak to the press and the police slam him against the wall and he's yelling trying to speak to the press. CNN, unhinged. Fox News, this guy's unhinged. No, he walks out of the, and so if you just see the screenshot they take and just see the headline, you're like, yeah, this guy's unhinged. You watch the video, no, he walks out of the police car, tries to say something, gets slammed into the wall and escorted and not allowed to say any fucking thing. By the way, you're not allowed, like, where do those rules come in about like when, like, I mean, right now he's being held for, I think the biggest charge he's being held for is second degree murder. You're not, you're not allowed to speak. You're not allowed. You're not allowed to like, are the rights at that point? We have the funniest understanding because we've all seen like, you know, law and order SVU, right? Like all of us have seen every police drama and we've all listened to all of the like murder podcasts and stuff like that. The whole thing, like the whole Miranda rights thing is like anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. This motherfucker can and is saying whatever the fuck he wants. And yet he's being He's being shut down and we're seeing clips of it on the news that are like, this guy's unhinged, this guy's a killer, this guy's it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, So far all we know is that the police have arrested a person of interest, whatever happened to our legal system of innocent until proven guilty. Meanwhile, Donald Trump is literally convicted of crime and was elected president of the United States. Yeah. We have a very different legal system on this planet, and especially in the United States of America, that cares about what the powers that be want us to care about, right? mean, it's on display right now. is on, they can't fucking, dude, they can't spin it fast enough. Like they've done the job of spinning it for the last like million years. They can't spin this shit fast enough because we've got TikToks and CCTVs and live videos and we've got this guy's Amazon book review history and his tweets. We have a live front row seat to the revolution. Yeah. And people are not watching on at CNN and that anymore. They're going to the TikToks and social media and all these sources. And as problematic as that is, it's definitely problematic if you are part of the people spinning the fucking narrative. And so it's just kind of waking me up and waking me up to the fact that like, we are not owning the fact that We're not as rational beings as we want to claim we are. we are, we still are animals. We have animal instincts. And to think that like, the rule of law has kept us in like this very rational, you know, everything, like, I guess I said it, we're not as rational as we think we are. And think that was one of the things I really liked about his review of, it was, was a little chilling, but his book review, he, he made a quote, he quoted someone else in that review and it talked about how, I wish I could remember what I said. You had a thought. I'm going to pull it up. I have it actually right here. Yeah, so like, I'll just do filler while you're pulling that up because like, what you're saying is it matters. Like what we believe about the law and the concept of the rule of law and order, it just does not apply. It doesn't apply to anybody. there are different rules and different laws. that are applicable to different people. And the example, I'm gonna use an example here. Do you have up what you wanna read? Okay, yeah, let's turn it back over to what you're looking at, yeah. to, to, to just say what you said, how many black people have been shot in the streets in similar fashion? And there's nothing, nothing, nothing fucking done about that. Nothing. So. many school shootings, Mike? we got shit to talk about, bro. Go ahead. Go off, King. All right. So this, he's quoting someone else here. And so have the balls to recognize that peaceful protest has gotten us absolutely nowhere. And at the end of the day, he's probably right. Oil barons have listened to, haven't listened to any environmentalists, but they had, but they have feared him. They're talking about Ted Kaczynski here, the Unabomber. When all other forms of communication fail, violence is necessary to survive. Now, this is not like a promotion of violence, but I'm trying to talk about how we need to come in contact with our own violent animalistic nature and we can't pretend it's not there. And also why we have been violent. We talk about this thing about violence as humans is something we should get rid of and evolve from, but violence in protection, we evolved. to be violent for, I mean, there's a reason for this instinct. So this is a part that really hit me. It says, these companies don't care about you or your kids or your grandkids. They have zero qualms about burning down the planet for a buck. So why should we have any qualms about burning them down to survive? We're animals just like everything else on this planet, except we've forgotten the law of the jungle and bend over for our overlords when they... when any other animal would recognize the threat and fight to the death for their survival. Violence never solved anything is a statement uttered by cowards and predators. Damn dude, violence never solved anything. Quotes, violence never solved anything is a statement uttered by cowards and predators. It's such a fucking line, dude. It's such a line, right? it hit me because it made me think of like, you know, growing up Christian and turning the other cheek and growing up Mormon, and then just growing up trying to be a good little boy. And how it turns you into the perfect sheep as well. And it's similar to the conversation we were having a couple weeks ago when I went to that concert, I'm like, Doug, I've got the answer. Let's set the music industry free. Let's just put our music out there for free and say, Hey, riff on this, do it, do a cover of this, do anything you want with our music. And Doug, you're like, Mike, you don't realize how many, like this, how much people have had to defend, like fight for their rights to music because of people exploiting them. And it. I don't know. It opened a lot up in for me or for me when we talk about that snag term of like sensitive new age guy. sensitive new age guy. Snag. And how we have to recognize that both internally and externally there are wolves. And we have our own internal wolves as well. And you don't, a wolf doesn't care if you love them. A wolf, you need boundaries, you need fences, you need to protect yourself from the wolves. man. And then you can admire them from afar. Like wolves are beautiful creatures. But dude, let's use the wolf. Okay, let's keep going down this path of the wolf, right? So you're talking about like snags, the concept of a sensitive new age guy, the left leaning straight white male who's just trying to like, we're trying to topple the patriarchy. We're holding this together. Let's do this shit. You know what I mean? And by the way, I've been there. am still, I'm, I am him. Are you kidding me? Mike, I'm gonna come back to the snags and the wolves thing, but I'm gonna say this, because you know me in real life. I am a fucking proven pacifist. what I mean by that is it's like people can say they're a pacifist, but until you keep your hands in your pockets multiple times while you are being. physically violently attacked You ain't no fucking pacifist. I've done that multiple times. You know this about me. I am a I am a pacifist I Got scars to prove it. I got fucking a broken face about it But it's making me rethink all that shit Mike all of this is making me rethink all of that shit and what I mean by the I just want to get to the real quick I just want to Go on your point about wolves and sensitive new age guys, right? Because you talk about how wolves are beautiful. are nature's apex predator. They hunt in packs. Also a wolf that has been domesticated for the last 10,000 years can show up in the form of a barking Chihuahua that can do no harm. Beautiful little boy. Sit in my lap. be like the good little boy and sit with your mommy and sit in my little bag and be Paris Hilton's little fucking chihuahua or poodle or goldendoodle or whatever. All dogs descended from gray wolves. All dogs. 10,000 years ago were apex. All dogs 10,000 years ago were apex predators. But because those some of those wolves recognized the value in domestication. We now have little teacup Bernadoodles and the tiny little rat sized fucking Chihuahuas and little rat terriers. all those dogs, they're cute. They yap. They're fun. I love them. I got one. I love dogs, but just keep in mind. The point of this whole thing, Mike, is that all dogs used to be gray wolves. So that song of mine that's like, I remember when you told me to bury all my guns, so I buried everyone, but I know where to dig them up. And then we start fucking howling in that song. Yeah. And man, I've never howled in my life up until recently. Up until that. I don't think I've ever tried to howl until your song. And it feels so fucking good. and so look, I'm not, I, I'm not saying pacifism isn't the answer anymore. I don't know. don't know. Yeah. Same, same. So I guess what I'm trying to say here is I'm not promoting violence, but what I'm trying to, but what I'm also trying to say is if we can't keep Pretending that that instinct isn't inside of us and we can't pretend that there isn't a moment when the anger, well-expressed anger and boundaries are needed, especially ex-Mormons who grew up. There's no boundaries in Mormonism. The home teachers come and knock on your door every week. The bishop randomly interviews you at random times and asks you invasive questions, invasive secrets. There's no privacy. There's no boundaries. You grow up usually in a big family. Sometimes you don't even have your own room. Sometimes you've never really had, stayed in your own room your whole life. Because then you go on your mission, you have a companion, you get home, you get married, you have babies. And then it's like when you're two twain shall be one flesh or whatever, then you don't, then now you have someone that you can't keep secrets from and you're not even supposed to keep secrets from God. We don't know boundaries in Mormonism. Getting in touch with your anger is also getting in touch with those boundaries, which is like, no, fuck, fuck, no, enough's enough. And yeah. I'm just thinking about the concept of what you just said of keeping secrets. Because I mean, listen, man, you know secrets about me. I know secrets about you. Everybody has secrets, right? We talk pretty openly about the importance of secrets, but I'm starting to think about that in terms of this concept of pacifism and that kind of thing. Is a secret just simply a, please don't tell anybody about my true nature? Please don't tell anybody about how wild I am. Because if they knew that, they love me? then would they pet my belly and pet behind my ears and tap my head and give me food? Probably not. They'd send me back out to the cold and I'd to be a wolf. I had this thought at a concert when I was high and crossfaded soon after the election. I think I talked about this concert on the podcast, like there's one with like the three or four female singers. I was thinking about, you know, kinks. And how we all have kinks. We all, I mean, we're living our kinks. know, that the whole book, you know, with our episode with Carolyn Elliott on her book Existential Kink, part of the nature of God is kink. Part of the nature of the universe of nature is kink. And we all have these kinks that we kind of hold in there and that like, we don't want people to know, but if we're all one, Mother Earth, we're not fooling Mother Earth. Mother Earth knows our kinks. And so if she wants to put them on blast, everyone, you know, she can if she wants to. But yeah, we hide from each other like, yeah, like put on our clothes and just like, if anyone saw that kinky side of me, what would they think of me? If anybody saw my true nature, like I put on my shoes and my little hat and my vest and my pants, and hopefully no one will notice that I'm a fucking wild animal. That like kinks, kinks, kinks. Do you mean like how we come? How we get turned on to orgasm? Like Mike, just real quick, I want to like just in the moment recognize something. I love our energy right now. Both of us, I don't know if I'm so, we seem both sober, right? I'm totally sober, yeah. I love our energy right now. Like I am loving, we're bringing like some, me too, dude. I'm feeling like we're bringing some kind of like, we're bringing the heat, dude, to just to this conversation. It's kind of fun talking about this shit, right? Cause it's like, it's like, dude, I don't, I don't love the idea of murder. I don't love the idea of cold blooded murder, but do you know what? There's a tweet that's been going around for like probably a decade. It's like one of those like, It's a tweet that shows up on all the other socials, know, on Reddit it shows up as white people Twitter and it shows up on Instagram. It's that tweet that's like, someone better remind the elite that in 18th century France, we decided that peaceful protest was how we would bring our problems to the wealthy. and that they would acknowledge them because the process before that was dragging them out into the street in front of their families and beheading them. Like that used to be the process of like, hey, things are getting to be too much and so revolution looks like beheading. And then we all just decided as humans, like, hey, but by the way, we can't, that's barbaric. Let's not be beheading people. I completely agree with that. Let's air our grievances, let's have a peaceful protest process, but then some fucking black guy kneels down during the National Anthem. Not on my watch! That, that pregnant pause fucking black guy. You know what I mean? Yeah, well, and that's a perfect example because that's such a non-issue. But the news has been using issues like that, transgenders in bathrooms, whole Colin Kaepernick thing, whatever, name the list to keep us divided from each other. the biggest moment where I felt the spirit this week was reading Ben Shapiro's YouTube comments. You and Matt Walsh, the usual suspects, right? Charlie Kirk, Ben Shapiro, Matt Walsh, these like right-wing pundits who, where people get their news from, question mark? Like I still don't understand how people. qualify where they get news, right? I mean, I'm sitting here watching interviews where Mike Johnson, who's the Speaker of the House, is literally saying with his own words, like he's literally the Speaker of the House and he's literally saying with his own words, I would like to get rid of PBS. PBS. You PBS So yeah side note, but like dude you're talking about Ben Shapiro's like trying to make it a he's trying to make the the United Health Care CEO slaying He's trying to make it a a political thing And so he had this, the YouTube thing was, the evil left celebrates murder. But if you go to that thing and you read the comments, I had to double check because I saw it on TikTok and I'm like, I've got to check this for myself. So I went to the source and sure enough, I couldn't find a comment that agreed with him. You scroll down and everything was like, Ben, you're so wrong on this. Ben, you're so wrong. My grandfather died because he was denied the treatment he needed. This is a right issue as well. Another person like, yeah, me and my uncle, I tried to pull it up, I couldn't find it while you were talking, but my uncle and I could not be farther across. My uncle's a conservative, I'm liberal, we can't agree on anything, but we can agree on this. And you are wrong and you're trying to divide us and we see you for what you are. You're trying to profit off division and fuck you for trying to that. More than anything, fuck those people. Fuck them for trying to divide us all these fucking years, Well, it's turning my eyes to like, so now when I go to CNN, I can't unsee that. I can't unsee CNN's fucking spin on things. And you know what, there was a comment someone said to me when I was trying to process the presidential election. And they said, look, it wasn't someone who voted for Trump, but was someone who was talking to someone who voted for Trump. And they said, look, If there's two, if I have a choice between two snakes, I'm going to pick the snake that doesn't pretend to have the moral high ground. And I was like, damn. And you know, clearly I voted for Kamala. I would still vote for Kamala today. And yet I have to agree that like, we don't vote with our, we think we're so rational. We vote with our animal bodies. We decide with our animal. if a candidate is making us feel safer because. For what I'll give Kamala a pass because with women, have to, in this society, they have to be flawless. Right? If they make any mistake, they're like crucified. But yet because of that, they come across, they kind of give the sense of what are they hiding because they're not showing the human frailty and weakness that makes them relatable. And it's a, it's a, it's, it's a. byproduct of the system, it's not their fault, it's this fucking system we're in. It's the system's fucking fault. And so fuck you for trying to uphold this system. Dude, I'm loving where you're at. I'm loving where you're at, Mike. Listen, you know, I sent you that thing today about like liberal straight white guys. I sent you that thing today, right? About like... here, you're looking at him. That's who you and I are. Straight white liberal guys, right? Let's topple the patriarchy. Let's honor the mother. Let's do all this, all that stuff. But not only have you and I talked about this, that we're wrong in thinking that the way to topple the patriarchy is to replace the patriarchy with patriarchy plus women, like patriarchy but women instead. It's literally like, this is all this stuff we're talking about. is what the patriarchy leads to. And for me, I have been... neutering, is that the word I'm looking for? Or maybe like diluting some of my, because I want to be sensitive new age guy. want to be, understanding, in touch with the feminine liberal white straight guy. I'm, I'm, I'm not being honest about who I am. I'm not being honest about my masculinity. And, and, and, and by the way, Mike, The way that this is showing up is like you just compared like Trump and Kamala are two snakes, one of them is not trying to take the moral high ground. I think that that's a result of the patriarchy trying to convince us that it's like the lesser of two evils and it is not the lesser of two evils. It's like saying a fucking serial killer and a shoplifter are both criminals, lesser of two evils. no, I get it, no. but what, but, what I'm here, here's what I'm trying to say is, is that I'm getting a little bit like, Hey, we need to do this a little bit differently because I know that, the power of women is in full effect. And you know how I know that it's because wicked, which is full blown dog shit is the biggest movie in the history of the world because, because chapel rone and Sabrina carpenter and Taylor Swift are the biggest acts of in music ever. all like selling out stadiums, TikToks, doing the Juno pose, doing the Pink Pony Club, doing the Hot to Go. Like I go to a football game and everybody's doing the Hot to Go from Chapel Row and stuff. I know that the influence of powerful women is felt everywhere. The problem is those powerful women need to put their fucking money on the, on the, on the, the, the, the, where the actual governing happens. And, and it's not, it's not, it's not black and white. It's not Latino. It's not, it's, it's white women who love wicked, need to vote for their own best interest. That's who needs to be that. That's who needs to be toppling the patriarchy. You and I are doing our fucking best over here. But we can't... But we can't topple the patriarchy, we're a couple of fucking dipshits! By the way, I saw. from that last comment, it made... I, we are getting canceled. That's whole thing. We're getting canceled today. by the way, I went, went and saw Wicked last weekend, fully expecting to go in there and like, I'm going to go in there and I'm going come out and I'm going to disagree with Doug. Man, that movie's dog shit. I'm sorry. such... Come on, people. Come on. Are you serious about this thing? It's not good. and the musical, I remember seeing the musical on Broadway and it was fucking, it was great. The story is good. The songs are fine. The movie is too long! It's got too much shit in it! it dragged. was just waiting for it to like, it just lost any momentum. felt like it was just dragging the whole time. And, yeah, the only thing was like, I loved Ariana Grande. She was great. She's great. And then the movie's dog shit. Like, Ariana Grande, every- all the actors and all the singers are great. Like, all of them are great. It's the fucking production of it. It's too long. There's too much shit in it. Right? much. Yeah, totally. You're trying too hard to make me feel something. I'm already gonna feel something. The story is good enough. You don't need to drag it out to try to make money, dude. I can tell when people are trying to manipulate, you know what I mean? When they're trying to pull the heartstrings and try to get, it's like, like earn it, earn it. Don't just like try to pull up my heartstrings like that, whatever it doesn't work. And I'm a very emotional sensitive new age guy. if I didn't... motherfucker that ever lived, you know? Dude, I cry watching Game of Thrones. so if I don't cry watching Wicked, I mean, I'm bred to cry during movies like that. I'm bred to cry during musicals. I've been tamed. I'm not a chihuahua, but I'm somewhere in between a chihuahua and a gray wolf. in. That's just it, right? We're a couple of... I don't know, Mike, we've got doodle in us. Do you know what mean? I think we both have some doodle. We both have a little bit of doodle. Like, like we might be half something, but we're also half poodle. you know what? Both of us are, dude. And so look, take me to, take me to Wicked. I for sure I'm going to cry. Take me to Les Miserables. I'm for sure going to bawl my eyes out. Like, come on. I am, I am a, I am a fucking doodle. But guess what? The other side of me is a fucking Rottweiler. I'm like, I gotta, I gotta stop denying that part. And I gotta stop being like, don't worry, guys. Don't worry about the Rottweiler part. It's the doodle part. I'm gonna cuddle and I'm gonna snuggle and I'm gonna topple everything and we're gonna be cute and cuddly. No, fuck that shit, dude. Enough's enough. And, I know we can't speak on behalf of women here, but women don't pretend that you don't like the Rottweiler too. Like, I think a lot of the outrage with, and everyone's like, a lot of the, young men of the young men, the young men, like, yeah, the, the youth, the young men voters went to Trump. and, you know, we were talking in that episode about incels. and involuntary and you have a generation of men who've tried so hard to be good little boys and all it gets them is friend zoned and because there's no sexual charge there, there's no sexual tension. And so, yeah, yes, women want to feel safe, but they also, that Rottweiler is fucking sexy. Well, it's just the thing. I guess I'm sounding a little bit like misogynist. I don't know what I'm sounding like. I'm definitely not trying to blame women for the Trump thing. That's maybe what it sounded like. But what I am saying is that this whole thing of like, no, men need to lean into this and we need to like, know, toxic masculine. Look, I was raised by women. I, all of my teachers growing up were women. My mom is a woman and did a lot of the raising me. The people in my ward were women that were raising me. And we still elected Donald fucking Trump to be the president of the United States. A guy who looks like a, he looks like a shit filled diaper. That's what he looks like. Like if you asked me to like describe to a blind person, what does Donald Trump look like? He looks like a full, a diaper that's full of shit. Like that's full of baby poop. Or if you were to have someone who, knowing no context of the myth of Donald Trump, to sketch him, that's how they would sketch him. They're like, yeah, the shape is kind of like round, but bubbly and bulgy. And the hair kind of like... yeah like you know how date babies have I love I shit dude, I Just a side note as a dad. I kind of miss having like babies and toddlers. Don't you I can't wait to be a grandpa Yeah, I can wait, but I am excited about being a grandpa. excited about it. Like I like having little, I like having little, you know, cause toddlers, like, they walk funny and they like kind of like every step looks like they're about to fall down. And they got that like sort of like really thick looking midsection cause of the diaper and it's kind of full. And you're just like, what? They're just cute. You know, they just like, and it, and it's like, that's what we just elected to be president United States is a guy who kind of looks like he's about to fall down when he walks like, like, He doesn't look like he's walking. He looks like he's not felt falling down a bunch of times. Do you know what mean? That's really weird. you know, I'm loving this. so what's coming up for me with this and we have, or talk about one of that Boofolks trip last weekend was, or that I did last or two weeks ago. So much of one of the, was all about tribe. It was about fucking tribe and in tribes, the boys would be raised by the men. They'd be taken out and raised. mean, they were in the presence of other men. And that's, we're missing that in our culture. We're missing it. And they were taught to be wild, but then also to be gentle when they need to be gentle. They were taught how to fuck and fight and feast and, and be men. be fair. And look, this story that we've started talking about, we saw a podcast talking about it, is so fascinating to me because I can also relate to, so I looked up the CEO who was murdered and he started his career in public accounting, was there for seven years. And I know just, I know how that happens. You start in the public, one of those big four public accounting firms. You get assigned to an industry and that's basically your industry. Like you go and you get assigned to whatever. So he was probably, I don't know this, but he was probably assigned to health insurance, to work on a health insurance client. I jumped around for a bit, but if I would have stayed in Utah and Salt Lake and kept working for the big four, I would have either been in health insurance. I audited some health insurance clients. Or I would have been in oil and gas. Those are like what I was destined for. And I was like, fuck no. I hate accounting enough as it is. going, I'm, I'm doing something else. And so he was probably there for a few years, made his way to his health insurance company, worked his way up. Just was the good corporate soldier. And so I can empathize with that guy. I can see how his career path was taken from him and, and he got caught up in the system. And every promotion, what are you, you're not going to accept a promotion? What are you going to turn down your $10.3 million dollar salary? You're going to turn that down? by the way, it was 10 million, $10 million salary that he was getting. And so there's a other part of me that's like, or did we freeze? Are we back? okay. there's another part of me that's also, fuck that guy. Cause also like you get to, you get so high, like, like $10 million to be like, to be the one deciding life or death on a lot of people. So I also, I can relate and also be like, fuck him. And it's both and I don't know how to sort through it. Other than that. I... Gosh, this is where like talking about our personal lives would really come in handy, it? We've spent the last five years not talking about our personal lives. Yeah. I'm going to tell you, that I know what it is to turn down large amounts of money in order to share that with employees. I know what that is. I know exactly what that feels like. Not conceptually. I know the very exact thing what that feels like. And I know what it's like to feel like to be I know what it feels like to be enticed by more money. And the fact of the matter is this guy with his like Provo elders quorum pose and his Arms folded looking like he's hot shit He did not know what it's like to turn down money and he did not know what it's like to Have a real impact on people's lives not just the people that he worked with but the people that he worked for which are you know people who are having health claims denied. So fuck the guy, fuck him. That's what I say. Not, not, not I'm torn. I say, you know what? At some point you went down and down and down and you kept marginalizing and you kept marginalizing and you kept compromising. And then you suddenly had $10.3 million as a salary and you were declining people, life-saving healthcare. Go fuck yourself. You were slowly led down. You compromised, compromised, compromised. And then you... you just compromise and then you can still fucking sleep at night. slowly led down to hell, right? slowly led down to hell and you can somehow still sleep at night making these types of decisions. Whereas if people like him would be like, look, how can I make this decision? This is not right. I do not want to be in this job. I don't care if I make less money. I don't care if I drop my salary. I cannot be the one deciding life and death and killing people based on my decisions. And I can no longer be a part of play this role in this system. And if people like him started doing that, that's when change would occur. So fuck him. It's interesting, isn't it? Because like, mean, you and I are on record as being like, sort of like, hey, this is what capitalism creates. Like, fuck capitalism, right? But in the same breath, I have friends and homies that are fucking rich, dude. I got friends that are millionaires. So do you. And I don't think that those people are like bad people. think they're cool. I think they're good. Like I got some, got some of my closest friends are fucking rich. But at some point there has to be a thing of like, you know, you having too much is at the expense of people suffering. You having too much is making other people have to make choices about their existence, about their life. And if someone continues to choose themself over and over and over again at the expense of the greater good, at the expense of the tribe, at the expense of the common shared consciousness, fuck that person. If you're the one who started the pandemic goes and buys out all the toilet rolls at Costco, toilet paper rolls, because then your family's going to be safe. Yeah. Yeah. We never did. mean, I think I was scared to talk about it. I was worried about being canceled. But now that we're not worrying about being canceled, I do want to, I guess, talk a little bit about woke culture. And I hate even saying, I even hate saying that word because like, woke. People, like this is where also talking about our personal lives would help a little bit, but I'll just kind of say that like, how can, how can I say this? It's not. I think I'm waking up to the fact, talk about being woke and waking up to the fact or whatever, that when people get up in arms because Disney is casting the Little Mermaid Black. Yes, there's an element of like racism in there and unconscious racism for sure. And there's also the thing of like, Disney is not being authentic. fully authentic in that decision. And they smell a rat. And so it's not coming across as authentic. so like I contrast it to kind of, know, like for example, speaking of like Disney and like Star Wars, like the acolyte dog shit of a series, so shitty. And, you know, they had lesbian space witches in it. And by the way, Lesbian Space Witches, that sound, you fuck that up. But I found myself rolling my eyes in that point when they came on because it felt so heavy handed and so disingenuine. And look, if there was an HBO series titled Lesbian Space Witches, that's my number one show of the year probably. But Call anything. Call anything. Call your book Lesbian Space Witches, call your album Lesbian Space Witches, call your TV show Lesbian Space Witches. Guess what? I'm going. I'm there. And I rolled my eyes at that part in the acolyte because it was so cringy and clearly, we're doing this to ruffle feathers and this and that, but you're really not ruffling any feathers because the whole series looks like it's a Disney Channel movie and it's dog shit and the writing's terrible. The acting's horrible and there's no script and no plot and... You want to just like put some lightsabers in there and do think your fans are going to watch it? Yeah, like I think representation is super important. And also you nailed it when you said that there are people who can smell a rat. Like it's one thing. Here's a, dude, a perfect example of the thing that we've been talking about is what's lady's name? Cynthia Erivo, is that her name? That's that's Elphaba, that's the wicked witch of the West. name right. I haven't heard anything about like, they cast her as a black lady. I haven't heard anything about that. The internet has not said anything about that. Because she's a fucking star, man. Like, she's like that, her music, the way she sings is incredible. Her acting is incredible. She got a script that it requires her to like have eight minute pregnant pauses and blah, blah. And by the way, she's great in it. And her voice is fantastic. And nobody has said anything about it. Yeah, including all the people who the usual suspects, the people who are complaining about the Little Mermaid and Disney and that are saying nothing about it. to Disney trying to appeal to everyone, they appeal to nobody because they're just making it hollow. Like, if you want representation, do you wanna see a shitty version of, you know, whatever it is? you wanna see a, like, do you wanna space, what did you call it? Space lesbian witches? Lesbian space witch? Do you want Indiana Jones to be a lesbian space witch? No. It's fucking Indiana Jones. He's Indiana Jones. I don't want the recast. Yeah, Han Solo. I mean, it's Indiana Jones. Dude, if they recast Han Solo or Indiana Jones and it's any which way but loose, whoever's like good at it and has that charisma and has that Harrison Ford vibe, cool. I couldn't care less who it is. But if it's like, hey, we're doing this to try to like show our, to make more money to prove that we're like spreading the love to everybody and trying to make it like it's. Latina and black and and Asian and and LGBTQ all of all of us all of us Including everybody I just mentioned and you and me as these white sensitive new age guys. We're all just like What are you doing here Disney like what's going on? It just doesn't feel... feels... it's... feels like you're kind of grossing us out a little bit here to try to get our money. It feels like you're greasing our wallets a little bit here. Yeah. Like now, now you get a whole line of black aerials and, Halloween costumes and all of it. And, and by the way, it's, it's complicated because I've seen the video of like the black girls excited when they saw Ariel was going to be black. There should be more of that. It's just the intention. It brings me back to, so I'm simultaneously promoting more of that while also if the intention was more pure. I don't think people would have complained as much. It reminds me of that book we were reading, The Soul of Money, and how that charity denied, there was a company that did something and they were trying to like save face. And so they were donating this large sum of money to a charity, the largest donation ever for this charity. And the charity's like, no thanks, we don't need to hold your guilt. And it came back up again when I was reading that creative act book or from Rick Rubin's book. And he talked about how much in the creative process, intention is everything. And so I feel like if the intention is pure, people aren't complaining about Atlanta being woke to the degree you say, you don't hear that because it's people creating, the intention is there of artists creating art. No, no, no one ever tried to cancel Larry David. Dude, what perfect example. No one ever tried to cancel Curb Your Enthusiasm. Larry David, Curb Your Enthusia- God damn it, Mike, you gotta watch Curb Your Enthusiasm. watch. I'm going to start tonight. Larry David takes a shot at everything. He takes a shot at white male fragility, which I identify and recognize. He takes shots at the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. He takes shots at Jews. He takes shots at blacks. He takes shots at women. Larry David takes shots at every, South Park, South Park takes a shot at everybody, right? But because Because it's part of like, this is the creative act. This is like a slice of life. This is like a presentation of like what people are faced with. It's successful and people love it and it's hilarious and nobody's trying to cancel it. Now, if you're Disney and you got like, not only are we gonna cast a black Ariel, but we're gonna whitewash and make sure that we have nobody doing black face. God, what are you guys trying to fool here? Who are you trying to steal money from? Everybody. The answer is everybody. Yeah. Cause I believe, dude, I believe that we should have Title IX and DEI. I believe that we should have programs that allow for equal access for unheard voices. But I also don't think that that should therefore negate everyone else's experiences. And I think there's a lot of the population and as I'm thinking of it now for me, I'll speak for me. I don't want to say, shit, I smell a rat and then be accused of being racist or sexist or homophobic or whatever. cause you know, and so. Those stick, those are real big words, dude. And they're big words. And maybe it's just like, I take the risk of being accused of that because I know my intention. I know I'm looking at my shadow. know I'm looking at... Because yeah, I've had a lot of unconscious racism and homophobia and sexism that I keep digging up. But like, I'm looking at it. I'm examining it. I'm being self-aware. I'm painfully self-aware of that. And if I'm sick of being so painfully self-aware that I block myself from saying things I want to say, risking risking someone to be to accuse me of something we'll go ahead and accuse me of it like I know where my heart is I know where my intention is with this and I'm just gonna be like rest in my intention I guess you know Yeah, that's a really, I don't wanna say anything more than that, Mike, because I think we should stop at what you just said. That was pretty beautiful. Because I agree with you. I am trying my fucking hardest to examine myself. And there anybody out there that thinks that I'm like, yeah, like. I'm anti everybody else but straight white men. There ain't a person on earth that thinks that about me. But I'm so worried that somebody might say that about me that I hold back what I really feel, like what I'm observing. So well said, dude, well said. but I like that. actually liked the phrase right there, the rest in my intentions, because look, I might fuck up your pronouns here and there. And I might, I might say homeless instead of unhoused. I might, know, like, but I'm, I'm, I'm just trying, I'm trying to live in love and be the best person I can be. that's, I'm trying to, and I'm also trying to be self-aware to look at my shit and look at my shadow and look at ways that I continue to be perpetuating a system. that is we're experiencing the death rattle of that system right now. Fuck yeah, dude. To hell with that system. Fuck it.