The Other Side of Hiatus (#209)

After a few weeks apart, Mike and Doug catch up on everything that's been stirring—internally and out in the world.

Mike returns from Portugal, where he wandered the streets of Lisbon, finding a party around every corner, and accidentally discovered he may be a bit of a unicorn. He shares what it’s like to travel alone for the first time, dance with couples across cultures, and say yes to a spontaneous 2:30 a.m. tattoo.

Doug returns from a California music festival, where he camped, candyflipped, and had a surprise run-in with a childhood hero. They talk about the contrast between drinking and psychedelics, how their relationship to substances is changing, and what it means to show up fully—on and off the dance floor.

The conversation touches on:

• Letting go of needing to “know who you are” and just following what feels alive
• The various graphs and axes of bisexuality
• What it means to be a social (and maybe sexual) lubricant
• The ache and joy of being open in midlife
• Creating a new word—pleasance—for the kind of presence that invites others in

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Transcript

0:46

The last thing I wanted to tell you, yeah, that's fine if we record this part. the last thing I want to tell you, well, probably not the last thing, probably like the, probably like the middle thing. want to tell you neither the first nor the last thing I want to tell you about the. it says we're going live. I guess we're just like live on Riverside. No, but it means it means that if someone were to have this link, they would see us, but we didn't send it to anyone. So we're good. Yeah. Anyway, so the middle thing I'll tell you about the music festival is that, so you know my cool hat that I wear. So there's this, maybe husband and wife, just this couple. I'm laughing because we're gonna get to my Portugal stories in a bit, but like, there's some couples that... Anyway, go ahead. so we were kind of like circling each other at the whole like the whole three days of the festival, we would like bump into them and they were they were noticeable. They were God. Fuck, dude, you're horny as shit. I'd not fucking couples, Mike. What? I saw them. I saw them at a music festival. There was there's nothing sexual about seeing other people at a music festival. Good God. continue. And so anyway, on one of the day last, the last day, actually the husband comes to me. like, Hey, or the wife comes up to me and she's like, Hey, I want a picture with you. I'm like, okay. So we like do this fun little pose and the husband takes this picture. I think nothing of it. go back to dancing. mean, I'm on, I'm mid candy flipped. You know what I mean? MDMA and LSD. And like five minutes later, this dude hands me this black and white Polaroid of the photo he just took. my gosh, dude, look at your smile in that. doesn't that picture look like it, like that looks like fucking, it does, right? It looks like something, yeah. And the cool thing about the size of this teeny tiny little like, for those who can't see, it's uh like maybe like a quarter of a Polaroid, little larger than a quarter of a Polaroid, right? it's like, it definitely, I mean, your palm is bigger than it. Yeah. fits like here's my look at that. could like do a magic trick with it because you can't see it. So like I've ever done one single magic trick in my life. I can totally do a magic trick for you, Mike. em Anyway, so it fits perfectly in the band of my hat and it just makes me. It's perfect, right? It's like it was made for that fucking hat anyway. Yeah, like, um It's like a little feather in your cap, but like not a feather, you know? Yeah, I mean, I've already got a couple of feathers in my cap, you know? You recognize the one from Mexico, like the owl right there, right? And then the big... it. I saw five owl feathers from Mexico. They go on my altar. Yeah, dude, I'm running out of those owl feathers. Cause I put those bad boys to use. You know, got, I got a couple on my guitar and I've got like one on my, in my hat band. Like I go through feathers a lot. this, this, the one feather you can see there is a turkey feather from just my turkey. My, my dog destroyed a turkey out there. Anyway, so it makes me think of my dog because he, you know, he died. I love your um, yeah, sorry, RIP. Yeah, RIP, Harv. Anyway, you love what? I just love your... the adventures you get into when you're off. lot of good adventures on that trip, bro. Like, I think that we should probably just talk adventures for maybe this episode. By the way, it's been a while. We're just talking. It's been a while since we recorded. It's been like three weeks. I think it's the longest hiatus we've been on. Yeah. It was, and it was like an un, like it was kind of like an unscheduled hiatus. Like I had the health issues, which I am still having by the way. But for those of you who are keeping score at home, it is, I finally did get a diagnosis. It is a gallbladder disease. They are going to take my gallbladder out. So I could not be happier. Get that motherfucker out and let me get back to living my life. Cause I haven't been able to like drink or eat much food for the last five weeks. Yeah. Six weeks, I guess now. You were warning me today. You're like, just a warning that if I eat a little bit too much or drink a little bit too much, I go and puke. Yeah, it's no good, man. Like I had to, I had two. So here's what I ate today, bro. I ate, uh, like a protein bar for breakfast. I ate a protein bar for lunch and I drank water all day. And then at about three, I had to come home from work because I was like barfy and sweaty. Like, so just so you know, like I'm doing my darnedest. Yeah. Anyway, we don't, this isn't. health chat with Doug and Mike. Like, you guys take care of your gob bladders out there. They're the only gob bladder you got. Um, but yeah, so it wasn't planned and then we were going to record one and then it just didn't work out. And then I went to Portugal and then you went to the music festival and. And there and therein lies the three week hiatus, like the longest break from the podcast we've ever taken. How do you feel? Like, do you feel brimming with stories and a little bit, do you feel kind of like, uh I am going to say that I think everyone should travel alone from time to time. Like I have never, that's my first time. I I've traveled through work and I've traveled where I've like traveled and I met people for work. I'm not sure if I've been on a work trip alone. If it was, it wasn't a very long one. Um, but I've never really been on vacation. I've definitely never been to Europe alone. And it's an experience I think everyone needs to have. think, um, well, you know, I'm, trying to get out of the thing of, everyone needs to do something, you know, like the Lehigh fruit of the tree kind of thing, but everyone, everyone needs to go travel up. is that we're both more than willing to recognize, you know, privilege here. Like we can say like, Oh, everyone should take a motorcycle trip, a 2000 mile motorcycle trip and go to a music festival in California. Everybody should go travel alone in Europe. Like we understand that like, not everybody can do that, but if you can do it, you should fucking do it. You know what, Mike? Okay. I'm taking back the habit of saying like, Everyone needs to do this. I'm saying, I know you're saying like, no, I'm getting away from saying everybody needs to do it. Not everybody needs to do it. I'm saying if you have the capacity and the opportunity to do that shit, you definitely should fucking do it and stop being a baby. Stop being a baby and go to Europe. And you know, I met, I mean, I met a ton of people in Europe. I think I could go to Europe now, I think, and stay for maybe two months couch surfing in different cities and never have to pay rent. Dude, your updates and your stories, let's just fucking get into it because I had the time of my life living vicariously through you. So I think we should try to like, give that same opportunity to anybody who's listening to this podcast to live vicariously through you. Cause it was a fucking cool trip. And I think that you should talk a little bit about it. So you're there for a wedding. Go to Portugal. Tell us, it give it set us the stage here. Well, I mean, on the way there, let me talk. I remember I texted you and I'm like, Doug, think I'm a, I think I would make a good unicorn. Yeah, this is from the airport, by the way. Like this is on, so your trip has kind of started, but you're just doing that thing of sitting in the airport, having like a meal and a drink, right? Yeah, well, I had several drinks and so I was kind of tuned up and I meet this guy and I'm not gonna give too many details, but he's also traveling to Europe. on his, uh he's engaged. He's on a second marriage, you know, to a much younger woman. And, you know, we were just talking about life and life's ups and downs and he's excited to get married again and that he found love again. And, uh you know, just how people do. That's all we, that's all we chatted about. then I'm walking to the bathroom and all of I get these texts. Hey, I hope this doesn't sound weird, but my fiance and I are kind of like open and, and I think, I think she'd be really into you. So like, and then he starts just sending me pictures. Just wait, clarify, he starts sending you all kind of pictures. Well, they're, you know, compromising pictures. I'm being very complimentary. I'm like, this is, oh because yeah, they're, sexy pictures. He starts sending me sexy pictures. And I'm like flattered that this guy met in the bars all of just like, Hey, invite me to a threesome, which by the way, I haven't had a threesome. But then I got thinking, cause I was tuned up enough. That's when I was texting you. I'm like. I've been in like almost threesomes. You've had a couple of close calls haven't you? Like I was thinking about that. Like you've had some... That's funny to hear you say you've never been in a threesome, but you've had some close calls. Like that's a pretty good way to say it, right? And just in two years, in two years of being single, I've been really close several times. And then that just kick started the trip. And so I get to Portugal, I'm going to a wedding and I'm out on the coast town. think that the world wants to know, like, is there a chance of this couple, their dreams coming true, this couple that you met in the airport? And you didn't meet the fiance, by the way, you just met the guy, right? And you've seen the fiance naked. here's the thing. For a unicorn, I wish I was into guys more. Or at least consciously. Can I ask you a question, flat out? Am I just like... uh Because, you we all have those gay friends who... You're just like, I'm just waiting for this friend to come out. Is this too much putting you on the spot? But I'm genuinely curious. Am I like um a clearly bisexual person who just hasn't realized it? Yeah, am I? Yeah. I guess my answer is like, that's for you to like explore and decide and tell us. I think that probably you're finding a little bit of your answer in the asking of it. I guess so, but I guess where I get confused... No, because he... you're still, and you're still like digging your heels in and being like, well, yeah, it makes sense that I would ask someone else who I'm attracted to. What the fuck? Well, because I guess the reason why I asked the question is because I wish I felt it more. Well, then you're not, then you're not, then you're not gay or bi. Like if you're not attracted, if you're not a trait, let me, let me tell you something. Like, I'm going to give you like a cheat code for this kind of stuff. You ready? If you're not attracted to people, uh, that identify as the same, uh, sex and gender as you, then you're not, you're not gay. If you are attracted to people who identify as the same sex or gender as you, might, you might be gay. I mean, is it, but is it really that simple? Or is there stuff that's repressed? But like, I'm, but I'm 45 fucking years old now. And you know what mean? Like, you're still kind of trying to outsource like, like as if you're going to get it wrong on the test. Yeah, I think I still kind of do that sometimes. Yeah. kind of do that sometimes but Mike no one there's no fucking answer key to this particular test It's you're right in the key as you go Well then here's where I, here's where I, because it happened at the wedding a lot where it's like, I'm, there's a lot of couples there at the wedding and I'm dancing with a lot of them. And I felt like I'm really good at like getting couples to like vibe with me, but like not, not distract from what they got going on. You know what I mean? I, that's why I think I, I make a good unicorn, but here's my thing. It's like, it's a game of like, if, that, uh, elusive threesome ever happen. It's a game of like, how much is the guy going to offset the, you know, it's like, it's a scale of attraction and like the women, okay, how much am I attracted to her and how much is he going to offset that? Right, I would say that that's like, OK, you were pointing kind of an up and down thing. So let's call that the y-axis of your little gambit here, right? I think also the x-axis is how much uh physical contact and how much participating in the physical act of sex with the man is expected. Right? So if it's like, do you see what I'm saying? So if it's like you're in a, know, what they call the devil's three way to, two, two men and a woman. Um, you know, you could, you could be like, well we're performing an Eiffel tower, you know, one, one's one's fucking her doggy style and the other one's it's like a spit roast, know, fucking her in the mouth. but it's not expected for the two guys to start like licking each other's balls or, or, or, or kissing on the lips or whatever. in between, you know, but if you're saying that the expectations are also it's a, it's a, uh, two men and a woman, uh, threesome and the man wants to like, you know, kiss your neck and tickle your butt hole and do all that kind of stuff. Well, then that's, yeah, those are two different things, right? There's one where you're just like part two, you're like tag teaming. Uh, you know, it's like, you're, you're, like, it's on playing defense in basketball where you're like double teaming, you're helping your buddy out, right? Oh But the other one could be like, no, this is a full contact sport. Like you're in there. He wants you getting up in there. He wants you rooting around deep in there. So it's up to you. so I guess I was in my long way of saying, I don't think their dreams are coming true unless it's like, I don't know. I just wasn't, but I was, I was very flattered at the, I was flattered. left the interaction flattered. What if it's like, um, who's like your, who's like hot shit. What if it's Timothy shallow may and, the whatever Kardashian he's dating. What if those two come up to you they're like, um, we both find you irresistible and we would like to invite you into our bedroom to fully participate in a threesome. the, the, the, participation scale is all the way to a hundred. I mean... Chalamet says to you, I want to uh put my tongue in your mouth and kiss you deeply and tickle your taint with my middle finger. You know, that's not a no. uh I might need wine and dine first on that one. But I'm also wondering if, you know, I'm thinking if it's in my spectrum of guys, I think it's not soft guys. If you said Jason Momoa, I would maybe... Yeah. he seems to be dating. Is he dating this cardigan? I don't think he's dating a Kardashian. Who? this is a this is a hell yes. The girl the woman in uh Andor, I forgot her name. um And she's also in that rom com with that guy who's in all the movies now he was in Top Gun and um Glenn Powell. Glen Powell, she was in a rom-com with him. No, let me just look it up. We've got the internet. Jason Momoa girlfriend. it's a hell yes for you if those two approach you. Adria Arjuna Okay, so there you go. You see, you know her, do you? She's a total babe. Yeah. Yeah, I would, would, that's a full participation. I'm in. So now we're seeing that. See, see that it's important. Look, Mike, I hate to like make this too, uh, nerdy, uh, because, because sexuality is a spectrum and, just like the colors of the rainbow, there's every version of every, every option on the, on the spectrum. And remember I'm yes. And in us and remember, remember like five years ago when we started this podcast, we talked about stop. We're going to stop saying, but, so this, this opportunity is for me to say, and. um it's important to create uh graphs because because did you notice how that that that real simple little quadrant graph we just made helped you identify a little bit more clearly where you where you sort of stand on the on your sexuality. Isn't that isn't that a wonderful thing? It's wonderful, Ling. And you know, if it was just Jason Momoa, if you strip out the way, if you strip out the fact that I would just get bragging rights that I fucked Jason Momoa, it would be a no. But I would probably do it. one-on-one with Jason Momoa, you're saying no. If it's a guy who just looks like Jason Momoa but is not Jason Momoa, it's a no. But if it really were Jason Momoa, I mean, fuck, I'd probably do it because it's Jason Momoa, you know? So bragging rights take, so we have to create another, have to make this chart three dimensional now because we have to add bragging rights as providing some depth and dimension to this. that's not a deal. We can't we can't pretend that like, I'm just gonna, you know, like, I'm gonna kiss and tell. uh Jason Momoa, your secret is not safe with me and Mike. No, I'm gonna spill the secrets. um But okay, now that we've got that sorted and I've got my sexual... Well, but... still in the airport talking to this guy, or at least you're in the bathroom looking at pictures of his wife. Well, I've gotten to the wedding and I'm just saying that like I've vibed with a lot of I met couples all over the world and I've vibed with a lot of them and like vibed and just like a well, I found that in Europe and this is where America we've got it. We've got to get our act together. Guys, I mean, bars don't close at 12 and one. They're open all fucking night. And people are so friendly drunk. Why are Americans so angry drunk? and Europeans are so it's just because we're just living in a repressed country. And I guess that's what it is, huh? Because I go out and I'm just every night I would meet friends. And I'm a I'm a friendly drunk. You're a friendly drunk. They they match that or more. And ever, ever, ever when you meet. I'm not sure everyone, but yeah, pretty much everyone. And so, I mean, and you meet people from all over the world. You go there and you know, you're meeting Germans and French and I mean, at least all over Europe, Europe, and then some Americans too. Um, so yeah, I found myself, you know, the night before, the night before the wedding, I don't know if I've had, I mean, I drank a lot. I ended up getting, uh, my second tattoo. Yeah. Let's, can you, I guess you, I was just about to say show it, but I've seen it and there's nobody watching. yeah. So um I guess there's a few things to address there. um You asked about like, ah OK, you're connecting with couples and um you're at the wedding and you're bringing people out and they're dancing and stuff like that. There's an answer to that. I can give you an answer to that. Like you, you, you are dancier than a lot of guys and you dance more flamboyantly than guys who just like do that little two step. Do you know what I mean? Like, you know how to get your, you're good at getting your hips and shoulders and body into it. You know what I mean? Like you're a good dancer, you know? So add that. And you know, Mike, you are very friendly and you're being, um, like gentlemanly in that your friendliness, which can come across as kind of flirtiness. You're flirting with the guy in those couples because it's uh harmless, right? You're flirting with the guy because it's safe and then you're not presenting yourself as a threat and you are presenting yourself as friendly Mike who's out here making friends and getting people on the dance floor. But for couples who have experience with like, hey, we've explored different versions of sexuality and we've explored different, you know, partners and participants, you come across as exactly what you're describing, as a unicorn that's like, hey, look, he's dancing pretty flamboyantly and he's flirting with my husband. So maybe he'd like to join us in the bedroom. Like that's a thing. So to answer your question, yes, that's how you come across because that's what you do. And that's what maybe that's maybe what I partially am. Maybe I'm a good unicorn. Maybe that's what we hear. No, because I feel like it's fun and I enjoy at least dancing with them. And I feel like I'm a good like, I haven't called myself a lubricant. To like, to where it's like through Dancing they're finding like new love for each other and we're having a good time. Does that make sense? Yeah Look, man, it's a, there's high praise here is, like everything I just said, is, I stand behind. And also it doesn't have to mean that you are a gay straight or something in between. It doesn't mean anything. It can, it can simply mean that you are really good at enjoying dancing and you know that dancing is most of the time fun with more people. Like I know Robin said, I'll be dancing by myself, or dancing on my own, but like, there's also fun and joy in dancing with multiple people. And, so I'm gonna keep saying and here, and traditionally, uh women are more apt and more willing to get out on the dance floor. And most men, when you get them out on the dance floor and they start dancing, they open up and they have fun. And so Mike, you are a good social lubricant. and maybe a good sexual lubricant and maybe a good marital lubricant. I don't know man, you could be all the lubricants. I know. I just found out a lot about myself on Portugal. I found out, I got my second tattoo. With... It's like a sun with a moon in the middle. And, you know, I could have done much worse for a 2.30 a.m. tattoo, you know? And I got matching tattoos with uh a Brazilian woman that I met there. Tell me more about this Brazilian woman, Mike, you Portuguese-speaking son of a bitch. we just had we had lot of fun. She was great. Is this the second time that your mission got you laid? yeah, think yes, it is for sure. mean, the first time would be your wife who you lost your virginity to. Oh, but how? Oh, because because she's married to return missionary. Oh, yeah. So this is probably the third time because I. There was a Mexican woman that I met here in Los Angeles at a concert, and but I was speaking to her in Portuguese and she was speaking and she really loved the fact that I was speaking Portuguese, you know. percentage of uh comprehension if you're speaking Portuguese and she's speaking like Spanish, like Mexican Spanish, what's the percentage of comprehension? Well, if we're going to graph it, it depends on... Fuck you, I'm not trying to make everything math here, Mike. Quit throwing me under the bus, like, call me a dork. because I'm saying it depends, you know, like if I go to a Spanish speaking LDS church, the retention is like, even though they're speaking Spanish, I bet I pick up like 60, 70 % of it. But if it's just like everyday conversation, um but you know, she asked, she spoke pretty good English too. So it was like, so we cheated, you know, she, I would speak English and sometimes she'd say something in Spanish and I'd speak Portuguese. And you know, there's the language of love that's universal. uh You gave me that whole long answer and you didn't answer my fucking question, which is like, how much do you comprehend back and forth with her and you? Like when you meet this girl, you're out on the dance floor and you go say, let's go have a drink and like get to know each other a little bit. And you're like sitting there chatting it up and you're speaking Portuguese and she's speaking Spanish. What percentage do you two understand? Cut out the English and the language of love, which is body language. I'm just curious and I'm getting less curious. gonna say, I'm gonna say the half 40%. Yeah. Yeah. Is that, is that good number? Yeah. yeah, cause like, mean, I, you know, like people who live in Taiwan speak Mandarin Chinese, but there's also like Taiwanese as a language exists. But I would not, I don't speak any Taiwanese, like not even 1%. Like I can understand, I can understand like an old lady say hello in Taiwanese. That's it. Yeah. No, Spanish and Portuguese are pretty similar. They got the same rhythm. And, you know, I guess there's a part of me that I picked up a bit of Spanish too, you know, living in America and California. Yeah, so. Anyway, so you two like hit it off and then you went and got matching tattoos. Like tell me everything. I think that's all I want to share about that part. We got matching tattoos. was good time. And then, yeah, but you know, here's one more thing I'll say about matching tattoos is that like I I've been circling around my second tattoo for a long time. And I think it was good to just finally fucking break the seal, you know? Just get out of the way. Because I think I've overthought it way too much. And so there was something. It wasn't like this thing of like, I'm so drunk. I mean, I'd had plenty to drink, but like I was... It's weird. I drink a lot there, but I never really got hungover. And I never got, I never felt like super drunk. Like I, yeah. Like I was with it. So it wasn't just like a... Um, it was, the drinks were enough to push me over the edge to finally just fucking do it because I'd been circling around it for a long time. Um, and then the rest of the trip I was in Lisbon by myself and it was just, that's where it's like, I don't know, you go through waves of loneliness. Um, but I'm going to concerts, I'm meeting cool people at night. I'm going to listen to this like traditional. Portuguese, they call it fado music, which is like this music of longing, which is like tavern music. It's it's like improvised. So I'm going to these I went there two nights to the nights. It just went to this like photo tavern and just listened to like this music and met cool people and just felt my own longing come through as I was there alone and just I don't know. I just came back. It's just. I think travel just opens you in a way that I think, you know, we talked about, we, you know, we talked about plenty of stuff on the podcast, meditation, breath work, psychedelics, but I think travel needs to be added to that list. Yeah. mean, there's something because it does a thing. It does a thing that like psychedelics are good at doing, right? Which is putting you into like unfamiliar, like into an unfamiliar setting, right? Where, you know, like sometimes you're, you're, you're like doing a psychedelic and suddenly you're just like disoriented a little bit and you're like, like you're having like new observations of yourself and how you are reacting to like certain emotions and stuff like that. Well, travel does the same thing, right? You're You're in a, you're a stranger in a strange land and you're like, what the fuck is this and how do they do it? And what's the fucking culture and what's the, like, what's, how do you be polite? How do you be courteous? And so by doing that, you're having like an out of body experience. Like you're having like a new, fun, cool, different mic. Like, like Lisbon mic is a, is a, is an entity that now exists, right? he's a legend out there. People are still talking about Lisbon Mike. call it the legend of Lisbon Mike. they call it, it's like you're creating mythology everywhere you go, bro. Like you're just running around like creating new myths. Well, isn't it also fun because I mean, to have I mean, It was like I didn't I didn't plan much on the trip. Like when I when I arrived, I knew I got the hotel where the wedding was going to be after the first two nights. And after that, I'm like, I'm not booking anything else. I didn't have any like Airbnbs booked or because I didn't know what city I was going to go to or what. And so I decided to go back to Lisbon. almost went up to Porto, too, but I didn't want to spend the whole time on trains. So I'm just like, I'm going to go to Lisbon, found an Airbnb. That was great. And then just every day, it's like I didn't look up places to go in the city. I just kind of wandered and found places and you kind of just let your gut lead the way. And it gets kind of weird too, because I was walking around the streets in Lisbon, I was like, oh, everything, you know, there's a lot of hills, like this feels like the San Francisco of Europe kind of dough. just feels, it had a very San Francisco vibe. And then of course, the second day I'm walking around and they have a Golden Gate Bridge. You're like, maybe I am tripping, just in San Francisco. What the fuck's going on here? It was like remind me of a what was that Disney movie big hero 6 where they have it in San Fransokyo It was like San Fransokyo of Europe and then I was like then like did I And then it's kind of like well my just in an alternate dimension or an alternate timeline of San Francisco That's so funny. And while you were there we were we were worried that we weren't gonna be able to communicate we were like do we have to learn how to use whatsapp do we need to like download these international but we were texting just fine like you're iMessaging me and we had the Like you and I had the agreement like you know what? Let's get off some of these fucking drugs for a while Right, and I've been pretty happy about it like I am too. I've, it's been good to be, I've had a lot of like sober and you know, I think there's something too. Like I'm grateful for drugs. think they helped me get in tune with things they wouldn't, you know, we talked about plenty in this and that podcast, on the podcast, but I also think there's something about sometimes you have to just reprocess things sober. like maybe you know ketamine helps you get or the mushrooms or whatever helps you get in touch with the help surface these things that you wouldn't be able to access it'd be really hard to access otherwise but then that integration is like okay now now fill it sober and so you know i came home with waves of grief and like i was i was processing all that when i got home And my dog is just, can tell he's about to do that shake. You know how you every once in a while lately, you can hear that stupid like shake that he does. And this caller goes, he just was looking at me just now and I could tell he was just about ready to do a full blown full body shake. Uh, anyway, so having said all the things that we just said and taking into consideration, uh, your, your sort of like call to re-experience things and re-integrate things with a sense of sobriety and clarity. I did spend three straight days at the music festival doing MDMA and acid. So I probably didn't completely go totally sober. know what I mean? And by the way, it was the best decision I could have ever made. But you didn't have a drink of a sip of alcohol when you're out there. I didn't have a sip of alcohol, is uh doubly cool because it takes place in Napa, California, which is like wine central for America. You know what I mean? It's like the wine country. uh usually at this water, or at this water, at this music festival, they have like crazy amounts of wine. You can buy these fun little cariffs of like, it's like a full bottle of wine and you wander around the festival like some, you know, drunken Lord, like, like you're just like, like Bacchus himself, you know, wandering around like sloshing. You're like sloshing wine. Like, I don't need a cup. got the whole bottle here. So that's a, that was my, that was my impression of me for the past 12 years going to this, this music festival. But this year I did not have a drop of alcohol hit my lips and probably had the most fun I've ever had. So I was pretty happy with that. Um, can I ask you question about that? Cause when we went to the reggae festival, especially the second time and we did mostly mushrooms when we were there and you could clearly, when you're on mushrooms, you can tell, you just pick up the vibes. can tell who's drinking, the people, a group walks by and you're like, oh yeah, they're on alcohol. They're drinking. These guys are on something else. These guys are, Ooh, I don't know what these guys are doing, but it sounds, fun, you know, but like the different vibes of it. mean, could you pick, could you pick that up pretty well on? hell yeah, dude. Like, I mean, you know how it is. Like everyone's kind of surfing like a little bit of a different wave and like, you know, it's really interesting, especially with like LSD. like, think, I feel like LSD makes me, you know, I've talked about this before. Like, I feel like LSD take like sends me way up into the sky, like outer space type of thing where, you know, when you're in outer space, it's like, you can see like all of the solar system, you know, you're just like, I kind of get it a little bit better instead of like my perspective from here on earth, where it's just like, there's my dog getting ready to do his little collar shaking thing. And here's Mike on the screen. And also here's all my little emotions, but with LSD it's like, no, I see it all. And so, especially when you're on LSD and you got all these drunk people that are just like in your bubble and in your space and like the, you know, the longer the day goes on, the more people are sloshing around with those uh full blown caraffes of, of wine. And people are just like, dude, that's what I become real aware of is like people just like, like hanging on me. Like it's like, Hey, listen, how about a little consent before you start like grabbing my ass? You know what I mean? Like, how about a little, how about a little bit like of like reading the room when I'm like dancing, but I keep dancing away from you. Like just like, leave me alone lady. But like, it's like, but you can also just kind of pick up on where, but even the way people are like sort of like talking to each other and the way they're sort of like, almost like the way they're dancing. can kind of tell what they're working with. Right. This really true. And my buddy is funny. Like I go to, I go to this thing every year with him, same guys. mean, he's, he's like my, uh, he's the other Mike. He's, you know, he's just that guy. so. And I've worked through my jealousy there, it's fine. I feel, yeah, and I feel compersion for him, like a deep sense of compersion. like that, there's that compersion that comes from like just the both of us are just so happy and satisfied and it makes you happy and satisfied, right? If someone can light up Doug that way and put a smile on his face. So he, he described it this way and anybody, anybody out there who's been to a festival with me knows that I like to go like, um, pretty, pretty big as far as like pre flamboyant. Like I like to go kimono lifestyle. I like to wear big wide brimmed hats. looks like you got something tumbling out of your mouth right now. or a Care Bears hat. Dude, wore a full plush, it was like an actual stuffed animal care bearer and I was friend bearer everybody was like, my gosh, I love that guy. He looks like a big old fucking care bearer. And I kind of do look like, I kind of dress like a care bearer, you know? Which is to say, I just go naked and start showing my stomach to everyone. They rub your belly. I'm like, hey, do you guys need any, like, do you want me to shoot anything out of my lower belly? And they're like, no, thank you. I'm like, why? It's a Care Bear stare and it's going to make you feel better. Ready? I bet you were giving some big good Care Bear stares on the LSD, man. oh bro. I was given Care Bear stairs that were bringing people to like, like, got, I got good stories from that thing, dude. Like going back state, like we met, we hung out with a few of the bands. Dude, here's my favorite part. Oh, my buddy described me like finished this little part of the sentence. My buddy described me as a wobbly drill bit. So what he meant by that is, you know, like if you're drilling a hole and you have like a straight, like your drill bit is working, it just straight hole the exact size you want it to be. So you can put a. you can put a screw in there, right? But if you have a wobbly drill bit, the deeper you go, the wider the hole gets. Cause it's just like a, like a top that's about to fall over. Like, right. You think about like a spinning top that's about to stop spinning. That's what I look like when I'm on LSD and a music festival. Cause I'm like spinning with my kimono and he goes, dude, I love going to those places with you. Cause you create a lot of space. Like, like everyone's like close in, like sardines watching this music. we're. We're like, everyone's stuffed in there to see Benson Boone and Justin Timberlake and Caged Elephant. He's like, but as soon as soon as old Wildcat gets in there, he's like, I just stand there next to you and I can watch as this lumbering huge man in a kimono starts like spinning around and people are just like, we got to give that guy more space. He's like, he's the best. around with your coat of many colors. Yeah, I'm like Joseph of Egypt, man. like, I love my coat of many colors. um Anyway, sorry, I've kind of talked for a long time. to hear, I want to hear you say you some stories. want story time. this is going to be the dorkiest one, but it's also my most favorite one. So, you know, I'm walking from like this, like I'm kind of found this like private sort of like tunnel, the VIP tunnel between like two stages. Right. And I'm walking through that tunnel and walking towards me. I like can't believe who it is. And so I do like kind of a double take and then, and then he and I make eye contact and I can see him see me recognize him. So. try to track that right. I see him. I see in his eyes that he now knows that I recognize who he is and he can tell that I'm doing everything I can to not bother him and to not yell out his name and have a bunch of people come like ask for his autograph. And so he gives me like a, right, all right, what up? And like, so we give like, we dab each other up and do like a side, like, you know, the, kind of like the bro half hug kind of thing. Yeah. Ken motherfucking Griffey Jr. Bud. favorite all time baseball player and my childhood hero. A person who I consider to be like, I consider this to be like a real celebrity. Like this is the best swing. Like this guy has the best baseball swing in the history of baseball. And he's just like, dude, it still looks like Ken Griffey Jr. Like look exactly like all my baseball cards. Like all my baseball cards walked right up to me and gave me like, we dabbed up and broed out. And I was just like, dude, so multiply that by the MDMA and the acid that I have recently like peaked on. And I was like floating. was like a Billy goat. Like I was like a Billy goat clip clopping from stage to stage, just like no one can stop me. I have met Ken Griffey Jr. And I look at me kind of I'm galloping a little bit and I have kind of sort of got like a fun little run. Like I was like, yeah. Did you feel like in that moment that like you had like summoned him from the universe like he was there just for you and like Mike, didn't believe myself. So I was like, I better tell this, I better tell this story so that I remember it. And like, so that I believe it. Like I was like, I gotta tell my friends. And so I went to, cause my, you know, my buddy that I went with had a, had met a girl. So they were like over there dancing and I was like, you guys, I'm sorry to interrupt your fun, sexy dance, but I've got to tell you what just happened. And they can tell that I'm just like brimming, like they can tell that I'm about to like orgasm. I'm so excited about this. you know what I mean? And then I tell the story. Fortunately, my buddy reacted like you reacted Mike or he was like, whoa, Ken Griffey Jr. Yes. Like we both like had a celebratory yes. And the lady he was sort of dancing with was just like, who are you more? Who are you morons? What's going on here? She's like this young, cute lady who's like, what's, what's a Ken Griffey Jr. And I'm like, what do mean? What's a Ken Griffey Jr. A Ken Griffey Jr. Is a thing that you summon when you need someone to hit a home run. My friend, that's who Ken Griffey Jr. is. Really, when you were starting the story, I was aiming low when you were, and then when you pop the top right off with that one. don't you love how I tell that story where I tell you everything that it's gonna be someone famous, you know that it's gonna be a name, and then I wait till the very end to drop that name? Because it is. It's a bigger name than you expect me to drop, huh? Yeah. XX amount. So I'm just saying because like I've had much more, so much less like mind blowing things on acid blow my fucking mind. Like this was terrible. Griffey fucking Jr. Like, it's the kid. It's the guy, it's like my favorite baseball player of all time. Maybe my favorite athlete of all time. I I can just imagine it was just like, what is reality? uh and the funny thing also, Mike is that I just, I went to this, like, I rode my motorcycle across the Nevada desert to, know, this music, three day music festival, 10 hours a day. And do you like how the only story I'm willing to tell you is not about music and it's not about, about like the food or like that I had this great wine. It's that I didn't do. I didn't drink any wine and I met Ken Griffey Jr. Those are my two big stories. My big stories are that I didn't drink and I met my favorite baseball player. I think it's perfect. um I met a lot of cool bands, got to uh witness a lot of really cool bands. There's a of people out there that are way hipper than I am, but Dope Lemon is huge and up and coming. Dope Lemon's so dope, Goose was amazing. Krongbin, which I can't even say their name, but Krongbin's so amazing. them in the Hollywood Bowl last year. So good. One of my favorite concerts I saw last year was Cronbin. Yeah, so good. you know she's like kind of looking at you and you're like am I in trouble and you're like I kind of want to whoa what up lady like come here yeah one of my more like my favorite episodes of song exploder when they were they go because they they usually don't have song the lyrics of their songs, but then they um They do one with that so we won't forget Oh we won't forget oh they yeah, okay. Yeah eh also have that one where the bass player lady just goes like this every eight count. Yeah. Do do boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Yes. uh I love them. ah Xaeli turned me on to them. Who else? Lawrence? Lawrence was amazing. They were a great band. ah Who am I missing? It's like, oh, Alan Stone. Have you heard of Alan Stone? He was incredibly. Anyway, and then the, I mean, the, the headliners Green Day, Green Day put, mean, geez, man, it's like every time I go see one of these like huge bands from my teenage years, I'm like, yeah, I'm a huge Green Day fan. You know what I mean? Yeah. I mean, it happened to me last year with, even though I didn't really listen to him much growing up as you, as you know, with like, but pink Floyd last year, even though it wasn't pink Floyd, was it, but, yeah, yeah, it was. But same thing where it's like, holy shit. So I kept listening to pink Floyd when I got after the concert. Um, where, have we, what, this is my favorite episode. It's just you and me catching up because we haven't talked for a while. no, and in fact, was like, I'm kind of mad and glad that was the first time I've heard that kind of Griffey Jr story, you know, equally mad and glad. Mike, do you know, do you know how hard it was? mean, you know, my story about like John Stockton, about like him asking me not to take a picture with him and then, and then me getting drunk and later walking up to him and hugging him and being like, have no choice. Like, do you know how, yeah, like I'm still not allowed near John Stockton, but. describe him, but he was just like a big care bear. So I'm putting out restraining order. uh Johnny stocks and I came running at him. uh But dude, like, do you know how, how hard I had to like, just like, like buckle down and focus so that I was like, okay, I don't want to fuck this up. And I can't take a picture with Ken Griffey Jr. I don't want to, I don't want to embarrass him. I can't yell Ken Griffey Jr. I can't kiss him on the lips and I can't like, I gotta make sure he can't tell that I'm like tripping right now. So I had, I was really like focusing on those five things while I was just trying to dab up Ken Griffey Jr. And then I just went clip clopping away like Billy Goats Gruff. Like I was like, okay, my life is good now. I'm going to go tell my friends about Ken Griffey Jr. no, it's been good to like, I like that we've had our journeys and we've come back and, know. Dude, love, yeah, I mean, honestly, Mike, festivals, like, I think you and I should go to more festivals. well, okay, okay, I think that we should play at festivals, play music at festivals. Let's go and attend them. Like, let's, what say we just go to festivals and do whatever people will allow for us to do? Well, and here's what I mean, to kind of talk about a full house moment, can we get to a full house moment of like, because we talked about, I'm just saying, because I'm there in Portugal. No, I learned Portuguese in Brazil on my mission. And of course, like, it always is coming up, like I'm meeting these people at a table and I'm speaking Portuguese. You know, even though I'm meeting like this, like I met this like lesbian German couple and Uh, one was kind of chatting with me. The other one just did not want anything to do with me at the beginning because I was American. But then the server, the server came over. Well, in a good way, because she's sick of Americans coming to all the countries and just like speaking English and, know, with our current state with Donald Trump, a lot of people don't like us. Unrightfully so. Then the server came and I started speaking to her in Portuguese. And all of sudden the German lady was like, wait, what's going on here? You know, and then she warmed up to me and at end of the night, we were best friends. But like, but I bring it up because, you know, she asked, okay, well, how do you speak Portuguese? And I talk about being on Mormon mission and this, and it just was a reminder that like how much I lived my life for the first 30 years, trying to prove that I was right and let the world know that I was right, that I had the truth. and how much more rich and beautiful life is when that script is flipped. When you're like, let me engage with the world and I don't know shit, but I'm here to learn what you know. I'm here to learn your music. I'm here to learn your custom, your stuff. You teach me. Like, let me just be, let me just learn from life in that way. You know, and, and at end of the day, you might, you might find that, you know, your sexuality is somewhere between straight and Jason Momoa on the way. Yeah, but only for the street cred. uh Listen, okay, listen, you're like, you're like in a moment of like vulnerability, you're going to your family and you're like, Hey, I just want to let you guys know that if I factor in, um, like person place and street cred, there's a version of me that would have sex with Jason. Like that's your big coming out story is like. And there's an equation. It's like x, y, y, multiplied like squared to the street cred. Okay. solver. Like instead of solving for X, like you're solving for like their status as a celebrity. Are they an A-lister, a B-lister? Like they get like waiting based on that, you know? Ha ha. Anyway, sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt. Go ahead. No, that was, I mean, that was my takeaway is that, you know, it just love, I love listening to your stories. love telling these types of stories because it's just like, feel like, you know, at 45, I've got a new lease on life and I can engage in life like a kid in a candy store. And, having that perspective, I know the world is harsh and awful and terrifying. And it's also at times like a candy store and lovely. Dude, I have found, and I'm glad you're mentioning our age. Now, to clarify, I am only 44 years old, for another, until our next episode. But I think it's important, that age thing, because I've found that in life, both of us had really fun adventures and we've only told the tip of the iceberg as far as the depth of some of those adventures, right? but they both revolve around this concept of access, like of getting access to cool places, getting access to cool people. like, and, and, and a big part of that is not, um, having to do with age or, mean, for God's sake, mean, I, I, I, I do lumber around like a big old fucking like moose walking around. So it's not anything about like that. What I think it's about. is a word that I've invented and I think that you're going to like this word. Are you ready? It's having a sense of pleasant. Now the word pleasant means to be simultaneously present and pleasant. And so if you have a sense of pleasant, people are drawn to that. Like there's a magnetism to it. Pleasant is a real important thing. And I've recently, you've been using that word that I made up and I really like it. kind of like it too and I feel like you're with that word it's just describing that vibe of like that yeah and it it people it disarms people and opens people and magnetizes Your dancing wild like it's only me. Like I described it earlier in the episode as flamboyant dancing and flirting with the husband of a husband and wife couple. That is, pleasance. Like you're being so pleasant and you're being so present. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah, you're demonstrating your pleasance. I kind of want to name the episode that Pleasance. The, what'd you call it though? The spirit of, you didn't call it the spirit, the sesence of pleasance. or spirit of pleasant sounds cool too bud. Hey, now let's get to some, let's get to the important nitty gritty details of some stuff, some upcoming stuff. You Mike and I are three days away from hanging out in Los Angeles, California, where we're going to spend some time playing music. We're going to spend some time. Baptizing each other and new names at the beach. you know, my, you guys, y'all know, if you, if you listen to this episode, every few months, Mike goes to the beach and rebaptizes himself. And I would like to be a part of that. So I'm going to go do that. Um, I Mike, guess it, do I come clean and tell everyone that I have officially, uh, purchased an electric guitar and I'm moving into that phase of life where I'm going to be like, doing electric guitar things or whatever that means. So I'm going to focus a little bit more on the sex and drugs of my rock and roll music. by the way, not just an electric guitar, like a beaut, a, she looks vintage and blue and, oh, yeah. that really tight, like what I would call 60s blue and that cream color, right? you saw like a race car with that like, you know, what we call paint job kind of dough. yeah, fuck yes. Fuck yeah, baby. Anyway, everyone, um, as, as, a, as a musician, I've been, uh, I've been a, I've been an acoustic guitar guy and I write acoustic guitar guy songs, which means they're about country and outdoors and being pleasant and being present. And they've been about my feelings and they've been about my childhood and they've been about my mother and I've been about my friends. And now I'm moving into the electric guitar phase, which is sex and drugs. That's the things I'm going to be writing songs about now. Does that work? Oh, no, I can't. I can't fucking wait, man. I can't fucking wait to bring that thing out here. We're going to record a couple of songs out here and that thing's going to help bring him to life. And you just sent me a couple of samples and that was like the first time you played it. And I was already just like, holy shit, this is a whole new this is a whole new level. We're when you're 40, you're you're 45 year. We're going to be off the off the hizzle off the hook off the. damn right. You all are gonna, you know what, everybody out there listening, you're gonna hear this episode and you're gonna be like, damn, I can't wait till I'm 45.