Soggy-Handed Deacons (#220)

*Fixed an audio issue in the previous version where the guitar playing was silenced / trimmed

A hilarious, stoned wander through smoke alarms, old drafts, and Mormon boyhood that somehow morphs into Mike and Doug opening up about how music saved their asses. From first songs to personal meltdowns to the magic moments when melodies just “arrive,” this one’s a messy, heartfelt love note to friendship and making art together.

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Transcript

1:23

What? keep going man, I was gonna, I hit record. ah that too. I was just fucking around before you got here, yeah. Dude, um, how's that one come along? I think it's ready. I think it's ready for the world. I think it's ready for planet Earth, you know? Really? Do you have like, do you have all the lyrics? Mike, look how fucking high I look right now. I look at yours as fucking... I think there's a chance there's a chance I set off the smoke alarm in this apartment complex. If it does, we'll just, you know, deal with it. It's a sensitive one. I've done it with Send it. I say send it. If we get a smoke alarm today, it's just the way it goes. We've been cruising for a bruising. We've been aching for a break in that long, and it's time to get that thing going. I should have brought something to like flick this thing in. Hold on. Can you give me like one minute, one second? I got it again. go, hey, take care of it. I'll talk to the listeners. Hey listeners, might've noticed that, you might've noticed some changes at the podcast, the intro song, we're taking, hey, send in what you want. Something just happened in my, you heard it on that end. I can't see what happened, but I did also hear the same crash boom bang that you all heard. So yeah. We're loving everybody's take on the theme. So the music sounds good. We've got Beatles versions. We've got heel, Billy, hootenanny versions of it. We're just loving every version of it. And also you might have noticed that our catalog, like our backlog of episodes is now behind a, I'm throwing up air quotes here behind a paywall. He really did set off the smoke. He really did set off the smoke detector. Just so you all know, that's what that's Mike is a smoking weed and he got caught by the man. You know, the government, the government is putting that little tiny smoke detector in the walls. And Mike got caught. Just so you all know, this is not the first time that I've been around Mike when he didn't have a plan and just sort of like started smoking weed and set off the smoke. So it's gonna be fine. Jesus Christ. I open up a window, so hopefully that will help. So I'm not gonna like stop smoking this thing. No, dude, I was just talking about how, uh, I was just telling the listeners about how we've got like, we're, we're, literally, our backlog is literally behind a paywall and we have new versions of the theme coming out every week. It's kind of fun and cool. Huh? Oh dude, it's so fucking sexy. I love it so much. So one, the Spacer would send us one, but I haven't gotten his full, like... um talking while Mike's coughing. We've got lots of versions of the theme. Space Druid has sent us a few, Mike's made a few. Go ahead, Mike. Well, what are feeling? Are you feeling like a Motab version or like Ferry Children version or a Van Halen version, a David Bowie version, a Main Street electrical parade version? Dude, I kind of liked the one that sounded kind of like Christmassy. The one that you, you know, the one that we did on the previous episode, it was like, it's, it's the holiday season. Like Mormons on mushrooms. do do jingle bells. Do do do Santa Claus. Do do do do do. It's time for Christ. Yeah. Dude, that could be a good Christmas tune. A little jingle, yeah. So yeah, look, um can I just tell you how much I love that like, I don't know, I just love that we're doing more episodes. Yeah, hey, listen, if you're listening, if you're out there, reach out to us. But just so you know. This is actually an episode that should have been a third in a row, but we had to make some changes from last week because the vibe wasn't quite fitting. But we're trying to put out some more episodes for y'all because I, listen, we get it. We're a little bit head in the clouds and we're not being very consistent, but it's time to drop some episodes on y'all motherfuckers. I was listening to this podcast series. Have you heard of Beth's Dead? Okay. Well, it's a podcast series that just came out. think it's kind of a popular one, I guess. But, um, you know, it's like a story of podcasters who had to shut down their podcasts because like, like someone reached out and it was like a whole drama that I don't know the whole story to cause I haven't finished. But a couple of things they said that one really resonated with me is they're like, yeah. All of our archives, like in a paywall now, we don't deal with that shit. We did like. And I'm like, my, it was just validating. this, this, I heard this, this was this week. I'm like, oh, because I text you after we put the stuff behind the paywall. I'm like, Doug, feel like I took off a backpack of rocks. That's just. dude. I've loved surfing this wave with you, Mike. I love when you get down these little rabbit holes and I'm like, okay, let's do it. Let's do it, dog. I'm in. Yeah. I love it so much. And the other thing that they said on that podcast was, Oh, and everyone knows that the key to podcasting is consistency. uh We have also found that to be true, that the key to podcasting is consistency. Get yourself some hosts, get yourself a plan, have a weekly format, have a plan, have a itinerary, have a thing, have an agenda, do it regularly. We have found that that's the best way to be podcasters. Right Mike? Hey. we're just cool, consistent Joes. That's how we're the juiciest cats on this side of the Mississippi. Well, let me start out with that Huck Finn song. Sorry, I keep coughing. should stop smoking. mule your mic when you're cough, Mike. Mike's coughing. His mic is currently muted because he's coughing from smoking uh earthbound cannabis. Yeah, this one's, yeah, it's all earthbound. But I wanted to smoke one those fairy joints, but um I got a roll some more. thought I had some rolled, but I didn't. um Doug, now that we're here, can I ask you some questions? Please, interview me, bud. Interview away. Fire away. Nothing's off the table. Okay, truth or dare? I'm assuming you're saying truth because you're coughing too, but. I would say truth and dare. I'll take whatever you throw at me. How many girls did you make out with before your wife? 48. So the reason you asked that, or not the reason, so it's funny that you asked that. And the reason I answered so quickly is because everyone gave me a hard time because I was a little bit of a makeout slut. Yeah, I would, I think that considers it. Yeah. And so when I made out with my wife, she was number 49 and I was like, dudes and bros, let's make an even 50. Number 50 is going to be my wife. She's going to be the one I marry and wed and take to the celestial kingdom. But turns out number 49 was just so fucking dope. I had to take her to the celestial kingdom dog. So 49. So, so the answer to question is I made out with 48. ladies before I uh settled in. That's a good number. um What about you? What's, what's your number, bud? My number before, like, uh, pre, I think I didn't get on my second hand. I think I was, wait, that's a lie. Hold on. Mike, you are hot shit. I know, but I really was probably the six or seven. And maybe I'm even exaggerating with six or seven. Really? it's a similar, similar thing that I have now where I feel like as soon as I make out with them, like, I have to like marry them. Yeah, dude, I'll tell you like I, you know, the make out thing's funny because I did get kind of a reputation as a little bit of a make out slut at when we were, when we were in college together, you know what I mean? Um, yeah, cause so I had a, a girlfriend when I was in ninth grade, that was the first girl I kissed was in ninth grade. And we were voted most likely to elope at like our, because we were like, uh, we were inseparable for a while, right? But, um, she was going to move to New York. And at first I was devastated that she was going to move to New York. Um, but then, you know, after we, you know, I don't know. just, we were, when everyone started knowing about us and it was like, we were a thing. I, I all of sudden didn't want to be a thing anymore, but I didn't want to break up with her. So I just wait, I just waited. This is where this is like a pattern in my life. It is. mean, can you see the parallels now? Right. With that. Yeah, because like, honestly, Mike, that's a thing that you still have, right? Keep going. a, it's a thing I still have that if I ever feel like I'm losing my autonomy or freedom in like, uh, any situation, like a coupling situation, I immediately just lose interest and I want to, uh, fly away. I immediately want to fly away. Well, dude, I asked you that quite, is it cool to talk about this? I asked you that question last week where I was like, hey, Mike. Are you just like addicted to the chase? I think I am. And then, yeah, and I said that, right? And this goes all the way back to, yeah, ninth grade. That's so funny because like for me like maybe I'm this like, you know, we were talking about this makeout slut or whatever Sorry everybody if I'm using the word slut, but I'm talking about myself. I'm saying I'm a makeout slut I'm slut shaming myself. Everybody can slut shame me pour it out. I can take it every if you hey people if you're gonna slut shame slut shame me Motherfucker don't slut shame people out in the world that are like just trying to live their lives slut shame me we weren't slut shaming. were just sledding. I mean, we weren't shaming you for being a slut. We were just calling you a slut. I didn't feel, I didn't feel any shame about it. I just was slutting around. But yeah. But my point being, I think that's also the personality types. Like you are this hunter, like you're chase, you love the chase. You'll have the thrill of the hunt. Like you're doing it. But I'm just like sitting in my, I'm just sitting in my business. Like, and if somebody comes in, I'm like, of course I will kiss you on the face. Do you know I mean? Sure. Come on in. What's the problem? Is there anything, is there anything wrong? Like come in. Why would I say no? Yeah, that's interesting. is right now. Life's happening. We might as well live it. And so I'm just thinking of like, uh, yeah, it's interesting. Even just the numbers, uh, or like our, our make out numbers and like how we, it goes all the way back to when we were little priesthood holders. Yeah. little little little little soggy-handed deacons. Oh shit dude, soggy-handed deacons is good. I think this is the title of the episode and it might be the name of our album. or the name of our band, maybe we just change our band name to that. I love it so much. go from Bombadilio, like we've had so many names of podcasts and bands and projects, like Flavor Country and yeah, Necesito Amigos, Bombadilio, and now it's Soggy Handed Deacons, which I quite love actually, just saying it, it's fun, right? And I just think the merch is going to be so cool with that, you know. So now let me get to my real questions here because we started out and you were playing a tune. And I've already called you the most like when it's all said and done. I don't know many things. Like I found that I'm not so good at reading the futures. I thought I was, I thought I was pretty good at that. But I do know that when it's all said and done, Doug is going to be up there among the. most prolific songwriters of our time. And I'm not, I'm, I'm chuckling because I'm just looking at your reaction to that, but it's a. I it's true. I mean, you haven't been at this for very long, man. That's what I want to get at here. I don't know, man. Mike, that's hard praise to come back from. Do you know what I mean? Because obviously, I love my songs. I love your songs. We love our songs. you and I are not on the same page. I'm one of the great songs. I love the songs I write because they come from deep, deep, deep inside of my cute little guts and heart. Yeah. Um, and yeah, you don't, don't have to, you don't have be on board with my, I'm just, I'm just telling you wisdom. Just prophesying, man. I'm prophesying. Can I prophesy for a minute? You know what? Go off, Prophet. Prophet's gonna prophesy. but I'm curious because so I've actually realized that in all of our times together, I've never, I don't know. I don't know this story. I'm not asking this as like a, now it's finally tell this on the podcast. This is me being like, I really don't know your origin story with music. So I just had a few questions about that. Cause I remember, so. In episode ah two, that was our first one we recorded this now in the archive. Number two, we talked, we talked about our first mushroom trip and it was at a reggae festival. And before that we were at a fantasy football draft and we were, we were going to go down the drunk route and we were getting drunk. We were getting high. We were going to go and spend the night like at the red lion and solid. The, uh The year before that at the draft, we ended the night at Denny's with our shirts off. And everyone there loved us. We made all the friends. Denny's gave us Denny's branded shirts. Like they were like, we just love these guys and here's some shirts. So that was us the year before, exactly one year before. Also the BDSM conference was going on. Mr. Leather, wait, King Leather of, what do they call? King leather daddy of the BDSM conference, like regional conference was being held in Salt Lake city and we stumbled upon it. And he invited us into his, his. rode the elevator with the guy who had been crowned King Leather Daddy of the conference, like, which is like King of the fools, you know, type of deal. And we rode the elevator unbeknownst to us. We rode the elevator up with him and he's like, you boys better come in to my executive suite or presidential suite or whatever and get a drink at the Red Lion in downtown Salt Lake. And we're like, yeah, fuck yeah, we'll go get a drink with you guys. And so we walk in on this like scene from ice wide shot, dude. We're like, oh, we're just Mike and Doug. We were so, and the funny thing is, is we didn't look like Mike and Doug today. There's there's, you might've had some tattoos, but you, not the long hair. didn't look like, uh, yeah. even like a shaved head. You were like gym shape? Gym Doug. Yeah, Jim Doug. But we were, you were a clean cut Mike. We were just a couple of squeaky clean cuties that were just drunk off our asses and chasing down the BDSM regional like conference. I'm just saying, think today, don't think even though like we wouldn't be, I mean, I still haven't seen you in like leather like that, I don't think we would be wearing leather, but I don't think we'd look that out of place today. And we're just like, yeah, two other weirdos just walked in. I, you know what, honestly, Mike, think that here's, it's so funny. We're talking about this. I think that if we tonight showed up at the, regional BDSM conference to crown King leather daddy and people saw us there, they'd be like, I'll bet those guys are bringing the drugs. That's what I think would probably happen. think then they'd probably be right. uh that was crawling there was that lady that was crawling she had like a like a dog collar and leash and she was croc dude it was a real full-blown conference dude it was not like somebody was fucking around it was like a real shit there was mirrors there were mirrors I'm just laughing back at this. So that's crazy. a year before, a year before our mushroom journey, that's where we're at. Now we're back at the draft and we're thinking our night's probably going to go down a similar path and we're going to keep doing that. It's going to be an annual tradition. We're going to be 70 years old and this every year around August, we would go out and, know, just kind of felt like what's going to happen. But anyway, then we, you know, go on the mushroom trip in the rest of his history. But, um, I remember being at the draft and our friend had a guitar where we were having in, and I was picked it up. I had just started kind of like fiddling around with chords again. And you're like, Mike, play me a song. And I got really self-conscious because I was like, I don't know any songs. And I had this thought of like, oh, I know Doug's not going to believe me, but I really don't know how to play a song from start to finish on the guitar and sing with it. that was, I know where I was at. then, so, but I'm curious. Where were you in that moment as far as guitar playing, writing music, you'd written a song or two. you not like, where were you with it? Well, had, yeah, so I didn't play an instrument. I had learned a couple of songs as like a party trick. You know, I had learned a couple of songs on the guitar, somebody else's songs. And my buddy had said, yo, you should, you should try writing music. And so right before it was, it was that summer. I had bought a guitar. For the first time in my life, I owned a musical instrument. my whole life, I had a life where I was a writer, because growing up, my mom demanded good writing. Adam and I had to... Sega Genesis, had to write an essay about it. That's really cool, your mom did that. And my mom would say, this is not good enough. Uh, you can say it in less words. My mom's like a, my mom was a believer in the Ernest Hemingway school of thought where it's like, use eight paragraphs to say what you can say in three sentences? Yeah. I overcorrect it and I tend to be a little bit verbose. Adam is a better writer than between the two of us. Adam is a phenomenal writer. But growing up, I would write short stories and poems and essays. uh He and I would write, I mean, we wrote professionally. And so for me, something clicked that summer and the mushrooms helped. It was like all almost like part of God's plan. Or was like, oh, you should write your own music. I was like, well, I don't, don't play a musical instrument. I was like, but you got this guitar and instead of writing funny blogs about sports, Which by the way, it was a really good sports blog, which I loved. It was really sad when you guys stopped doing it. thank you I agree I you know, you can still go back and read those things but it was like instead of reading funny like blogs maybe get Yeah I've tried to go back through my life and Edit out the parts. I don't want everybody to see you know, but it is that thing of like music has been the saving like just a savior to me of like something I never thought I could do because I never did choir and my dad told me, stop singing, you sound weird. Like I get it, but writing music and opening up that conduit of truth, like of real honesty is the thing that kind of feels like, we talk about like the medicines that we do and the meditations and the ecstatic dance and the yoga and the modalities, but and sleep, mean, getting like regular sleep, that's a big one for me. But really writing music is like my stress relief. honestly, Mike, when I'm, the more emotions I'm feeling, the more music and words just flows out of me. That's, that's what it comes down to. Yeah, I mean, I can relate to that in that I'm glad I'm, I don't know the last few years with some of the stuff and the grief that's come up, you know, around death, around separation. I really don't know how I would have got through it if I hadn't been playing music and writing songs and be able to put that into, create art and my art was through music. write about it, paint about it, sing about it. There's something about art making, putting it out. It gets it out. You express it. um You get some distance from it too, in a way, because it's like now you realize your story is, I don't know, you kind of feel the archetypal nature of it. And like, oh, you know, then you hear other people's songs about heartache and heartbreak or whatever. And you're like, oh, yeah. I'm not so alone or people resonate with my song and I'm not so alone. um So yeah, what was the first, what was the first, was, how did you, I want to talk about your first song. What was the first song you First song I wrote. I think it was the song, I've never really talked about it here, but like it was the song about rolling into Reno. Cause I had been, I had been, on a motorcycle trip through the desert. And I rode through a couple of mountain passes to get to Reno, Nevada in like storms and then thought that that was like my, you know, my saving grace and spent a lot of time thinking about love and thinking about my wife and thinking about the world around me and kind of dealing with like whatever. And I thought that there was like, like, geez, cool. Bob Dylan, you know, I there was shelter from the storm in Reno. then no sooner did I get to Reno, but then I got robbed in Reno. And I mean, that kind of writes itself. That becomes like a song, right? It's like you rode, you ride your motorcycle through the desert. You're thinking about love and you're thinking about yourself and you're thinking about your life and you're looking at the stars and then you're riding through a storm. You're wet and you're cold and you're miserable. And then at your lowest point, uh, you get robbed by some like, uh, meth doubt junkies who just steal your bag and clothes to sell for meth, you know? And it just kind of makes you so undone. makes you feel so strung out and undone. That that's the first song I wrote. Doug, don't even think I've heard that song, uh Maybe I have, maybe back before. think you've heard it. It's a pretty simple uh song. um I'm not gonna play it right now. Well, I guess I could fucking play it right now. Anyway. ah Do wanna play it? Can you play it? I could play it. Maybe I could give a little taste of it. How does that sound? yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know, forgive me everybody if you can't hear this or if it sounds kind of weird. Rollin' Reno, ridin' lightly from the stone Lost love three days ago but the whiskey keeps me warm Anyway, I don't think there's a podcast about me singing this whole song, but it's like that kind of deal, you know? Yeah, I just like Want more? Or we can just give it, we can give it that. Maybe we can add a little, we'll figure it out. about like good dogs sleeping in sand. This is the... around. That's all just bullshit. No, this is the first song you wrote. Yeah. You've heard that song, Mike. I've played that for you before. Where it's like, I miss the smell of your hair, slow dancing in the midnight air type of thing. then maybe I just, I'm blown away. First song I wrote was uh the Wood Elf and the Sea Wizard. Dude, by the way, that, by the way, that song needs to make a comeback. Cause you know, every time we hang out, I'm like, dude, let's fucking sing. I'd picked it up again because I feel like there's a way with like the, I'm, I'm like, there's the, the, on the, cause you know, the first song you write, you just don't, I mean, it's kind of clunky and the rhythms all over the place. No, but you, that's what I'm saying. Yours didn't sound like that. Yours sounded like fully formed and sounded like a hit. What else in the sea wizard is a hit bro? but so, uh, you know, similarly a year after the mushroom journey. I was like, I want to go back to the reggae festival this time with our wives. And I'm like, I'm going to learn a guitar song and I'm going to play it for you and Eric. Remember the song can I do you want me to guess at it or do want to reveal it? There's a Tim Minchin song Yeah, fuck yeah, Yep a good song and not an easy one to learn. I'm not to like, no wonder. Like I thought songs were so hard to learn because I would like pick these ones that like, instead of like, there's so many songs out there where you're playing two, three, four chords and you know, the, the, some of, sometimes it's the same chords over and over again. Sometimes it's just like the verses are one progression and then the chorus is another and that's it. oh but that, that song was, it's not a, you know, I, but I loved that song. I want to play a song that I really resonated with. And so I sing it for you guys. Like I was so nervous. Like I was sweating. I remember, yeah, yeah. And I played it for you guys and it felt so good to play it. Um, and then I think it was, at the reggae fest that you had told me the same advice. Like if I want learn to the tower, you gotta play your own stuff. And I was just like, yeah. And I was like, that's just never, um, I'm never gonna play my own stuff. And then. 25, 30 songs? Yeah, I mean, it just like I said, it's been my eh I don't know if I've loved anything more and that's been more therapeutic. You know, we talk dreams, talk drugs, talk therapy and breath work, whatever. ah Nothing's been more healing for me than just writing music. And so, um but I never thought I could do it. You know, so like, guess I'm being a little bit dishonest here because like, uh first song I ever wrote was in high school for my girlfriend Angie. Are you wrote a song in high school? Well, but I never put music to it, so it's just a poem. Look, I hate this conversation, Mike, because I used to write poems for girls. I mean, that's why I mean you made out with 40. I assumed you were, I assume you were doing something. I was writing poems, yeah. Not to say they wouldn't just come, I'm not saying that, but I'm just saying that like, you know. early poems were kind of like informed by some combination of like the poetry I was reading and also kind of like do-wop oldies. Like I used to write some real weird poems, you know what mean? But it was like, know, you're in like junior high and high school, you know? So that was my inspiration, you But you asked me like the first song I wrote. You know, not like change the words to, you know, like didn't, I didn't pull like a weird Al Yankovitch and change the words to a known song, but like the first song I wrote and put music to was that one about Reno. I, um There's a lot to say to that, but I'm getting a little high. Sorry. I had a high moment where I was trying to be less high for the podcast right there. I tried to, and I had the pause, right? Because the listeners can't see my crossfade. Dude, you're like, honestly Mike, this our best episode of all time? Like. I'm like, I'm loving this. it's hilarious. had some drunk. I've had some episodes where I've been a little too tuned up. Like we shouldn't like talk about, but like this might be our highest episode of all time. Okay, good. thought it was just me because you're doing a good job of like not being high. Yeah, you're doing a great job of it. shit, I feel like I'm answering all the questions and you're asking them. Like I'm like, how's Mike coming up with these cool questions? Cause I'm like trying to think of a question. Do you know what, do know what I was thinking just now? Holy shit, Mike, this will give you an idea. It has nothing to with music, has nothing to with podcast, has nothing to do with being high. Do you know what question I was thinking about when I was like, cause I was like, man, Mike is, Mike is like asking good questions and having good conversations. And I'm just trying to keep up. Do know what question came up for me? Uh-uh, what? Do you know the dome light in your car? Yeah, yeah. Specifically my energies in general. any car, you know how they have like the dome lights. I know, I'm aware. Were you raised, were you raised to believe that it was illegal to have those on while driving at night? Is it not? I still thought it was. I don't keep them on very long at night because I don't want to be illegal. what is the scoop with those things? So like recently I've been thinking about that. why, why can't you have your dome lights while you drive? Like it's fine. Like my son wants to like, my son wants to like start digging into his little fast food while he's driving, while I'm driving and he's like in the car. And I, and like my natural instinct is to be like, we're going to get in trouble. The police are going to come. It's dangerous. It's dangerous to have these dome lights on while I'm driving in the dark. But then I'm like, wait a minute. Is it? I can see just fine. I'm still driving. Everything's going to be fine. Is it? What's the scoop? it makes a reflection, right? It makes it harder. yeah, cause you're like, when it's inside, you're getting a little bit of the reflection inside reflection as well as the, you're not, you know what I mean? So you're saying that the driver has less visibility. So it's illegal. It's illegal. I thought it was illegal, but maybe it's not illegal. And I've also been like thinking it's very dangerous. But then a few times I've been driving. Oh, lately someone was like, was that with you? Or someone's like, uh, I just remember recently someone's like, is it distracting for me to have the light on? I'm like, no, I'm good. Yeah, I feel this is just a recent thing for me. Yeah. But I just realized in my whole adult life, I've been probably overly anxious with the kids with that. Same dude, honestly growing up, if the dome, if that light came on in the back of the suburban, my dad was like, he's like sort of panicking as if like the SWAT team was going to like f****g descend from a helicopter and be like, do you have your dome lights on here? Get out of here, bud. So anyway, this whole thing, this whole conversation is me being like, this is the thing that I'm thinking about when I'm high. You're thinking about like, oh, having these really deep conversations and like getting me to open up and getting you to open up. And so what I'm trying to say, Mike, is that you're doing a pretty good fucking job here, compliments. it? I trying to get to like the. don't turn this into, what are you doing? I'm trying to compliment you, I'm trying to praise you. because I like, I like getting them. I like, I like having deep chats on high because it gets like you. to talk about music and to be honest with you, I feel like... Writing music has probably been the thing that has um saved me from myself. It's a way for me to do stress relief. It's a way for me to pour out my emotions. It's a way for me to be a good father and friend and coworker and husband because I can sweat out a lot of my emotional pent up rage and frustration, I can sweat that out in my guitar and sing it out through my words. And sometimes I sing gibberish and sometimes they come out as cool words, but like thank God for like pentameter and rhyme. You know what I mean? Like I can do that shit. It like makes me feel alive. Um, like for me with, uh, that, uh, hold on, I'm trying to, there's a feeling I was feeling with that is the, like, you know, they kind of say, you know, you have to feel it to heal it, whatever. Like, uh, and lately, you know, I'm going through some scary shit lately. Um, that I, I, I hate alluring, alluding to it on, but you know what I mean? But like, I just, that's like, if it was more, if I. Just to allude to it, but it's been scary shit. Yes. But I I'm saying I wish I wouldn't have even alluded to it because I hate that. But like I'm just talking about how much. I guess it gives it some context though, because. How much um you know, leaning into the as above so below and feeling my emotions fully that like when I'm feeling a certain motion, the entire my entire worldview is colored through a lens. And. It stays that way no matter how much I try. But if I just take the time to sit down, feel the emotion, cry it out, scream it out, whatever, feel it out, then it's like, oh, I'm seeing the world through a whole new lens. And it tends to kind of respond to that in some, it doesn't have to be a mystical way, it's there or something. It's just the energy you're putting out. Like all of a sudden, You're, getting it back. And I felt that a lot lately and it's, it's been, it's carried me through. Not just this period, but it's carried me through some hardship over the last few years. Um, and nothing for me. It gets it out more like it gets me to feel that depth. Then writing and playing my music. Music in general, but like writing and playing it. And it's hard sometimes to do it, huh? But it's kind of like, it's a form of purge. And, and, and, you know, I've, I've had this experience and I know you have too, but like, I've, I've had this experience like on, you know, difficult mushroom trips and ayahuasca and Siri room and most of it late, like, you know, instead of purging, playing music, like, like participating and like sitting upright and forcing myself to sing and play is a form of purge. And so to get into heavy and dark and serious shit. uh Not exactly what you're dealing with, personally, I've had a six months of health, and I'm seeing a specialist for more tests tomorrow. And in my rough moments, like in my episodes, as I call them. Like I do a lot of, I do a lot of writhing in pain and laying on the floor and sweating it out naked and barfing. But also if I can force myself to get up and sit upright and play the guitar, it is a thing, man. There is therapeutic medicinal value to expressing what's happening inside of me through that form. And it's sounds maybe lame. And if you're out there listening and you're like, Oh Doug, stop being a little bit of a drama queen. Yeah, I probably am being a little bit of a drama queen, but I can't deny that that is a thing that like, if I can drag my sorry ass upright and play the guitar and sing a little bit that there does come with it. some medicinal value, some healing, some healing comes with it. And so that's why I think my fucking music is medicine and that, and that like, it doesn't matter if there's like one person out there that gets the medic, the medicinal value of it or 1000. I know what it is. I know it comes from a really pure and, and, and like liquid silver kind of place that's inside of my deeper like gut parts. Um, Doug, I'm glad like, so this, so this is why at first I never thought I could write a song because I had always in my mind about like a song is okay. I, you I learned, I grew up, uh, in choirs and, learning like, so I learned quite a bit of music theory growing up. And so there was a lot of like, well, I know they're progressions and different chord structures and different things and all the different things you can do with music. And so I'm like, don't know enough of that. And how can I construct a melody? It was all in my head. And then soon after that, week after that reggae festival, I went back to go see Xavier Rudd here in Los Angeles, because we loved him so much at the festival. And I just had like a... a spiritual moment afterwards. mean, I was crossfaded and just kind of hear these voices being like, you need to play your music. People will want to hear your music. And I'm like, well, what do mean people will want to hear my music? What music? know, it's very much a more like I feel like I was feeling the spirit and I was having this conversation with myself. Yeah. such a good question to ask in that setting? Because it's like, what music? Yeah, what music and it's like, well, you can write music like I can't. I don't even know how play the guitar. Well, you can learn to the guitar. Well, I don't have the time for it. Make the time. Well, okay. We'll wake when wake up early and do it. And then we had just finished like converting our garage to living space. So I had a place to do that. So the next three months I would just go and play the guitar, but I was, but what it became for me, how I learned it was I was during the time when I started therapy. When I had another, you know, the mushroom experience with Eric up in Oregon, and then like went into therapy, started doing morning pages, started to do dream work. I had all this emotion coming out of me. And so I could not wait to get out of bed at like five 45 every morning to be alone with my guitar. It was a sacred space, right? So it was like, It was not hard to get up. wasn't like, I'm, I'm, I'm going to get up because, uh, like I have to, I want to learn to play the guitar. know I committed to it. It was like morning therapy before anyone else woke up. I could just go and just play two chords and just like, start yelling my emotions start, you know, and so a lot of it was just at first just playing and just like making weird noises and like, dude. And just getting my feelings out to a few different courts. The fairy king song came because I was angry actually. The theme song, the theme to warmers on mushrooms came after I was, I might even still have the voice memo for it, I'll have to dig back. But I was like, uh Tracy had encouraged me to do morning pages. And the first day I did it and I just felt nothing. When you're saying morning pages, are you saying like a.m. like in the morning, right? Pages or are you saying morning like more and more and like grief like more and pages? What are you saying? Oh, in the morning pages. OK, sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt. Sorry, continue. thought, um I realized I use that phrase a lot, but it's from. um Pages is cool, like morning, M-O-U-R, Morning Pages is dope as shit too. So the concept of morning pages, I forget what book it's in, but like, it's this program she recommends that like you, you dedicate 10, 15 minutes to just writing and you don't filter anything. You just get it all out. And then afterwards you don't go back and read it. You either take, you tear it up and you throw it away or you don't, or you can leave it there, but you don't go back and read it for like at least a month or something like that. Like this is just to write and throw away. And so Tracy recommended I do that. The first day I didn't feel anything. The second day I was feeling all this anger at not feeling anything. So it like went from like, uh, numbness or apathy to anger. And I just went there and started playing, uh, two chords, the D and the A. And then I had somebody go to the, I'm just playing it angrily. And it was like, it's just like getting all the rage out on the guitar. And eventually that morphed into. the Fairy King song and the theme song from Worms and Mushrooms. uh which is like, I'm loving the renewed life of that song. Like, you know, we love that song. We played it at our thing in Park City last month. For the first time in a long time. We haven't played it together for a while. Like we even forgot some of the words and stuff like that. But I'm loving the idea of like putting new versions of it as bumpers for the podcast, Dude, yeah, lay it on me, dude. What are you doing to lay it on me? I know I've been saving them. I'll put one on the top of this one. Well, uh, but, um, so yeah, that's how, well, that was the second song I wrote, but the first one with the, that one, I'll just say one part of this one. It was right after that. I was thinking back on having that first mushroom journey with Audrey at the time. and. just the magical experience of doing this with someone you love so much. but she had, we both had different scary experiences there. And the trees calmed us down. And so like, yeah. And so one day I'm driving up, I'm now where I'm at. I'm like driving up from, we were going to go visit some of our ex-Mormon friends. And this was fresh off this mushroom trip. Um, and so I'm feeling the glow. I'm feeling better than I've ever felt to that point in my life. And I'm driving the family up to, we're going to go to this, pizza, pizzeria and meet up with our ex Mormon friends. And all of sudden I heard the lines come through. was like, it's okay, babe. It's going to be all right. The trees are talking to us tonight. And, and I was so excited. I was driving up. I could not think about anything else. I went into the bathroom and recorded a voice memo of me just singing those like, have that, I can find that. I'll put it at the end of this, I find it. And it's just me in a bathroom at this pizzeria, like trying to capture this tune that I just thought was incredible. And it was a weird feeling because I'm like, I must've heard this tune somewhere before. I must've played it. And so that night I'm like humming it to Audrey being like, and she's... And she's like, no, I've never heard that tune before. I was like, what? I wrote something. I wrote a melody, you know. Holy shit. Yeah. And then there was a jump that that's the yeah, this is first time you're I love that. um God damn dude, feel like I wanna go on a whole like little, I don't know. I just love, I love that song. I feel like we should dust that song off and play it more. I we should, think there's some dusting to do in the, but I'll play it for you, how I was doing it. And it's like, it was, it was sounding good. It was sounding more connected throughout and it was sounding more, it was sounding good. I'm having like a stroll down memory lane right here, know, just thinking about those days. Because there's something cool too about, I don't know. So for me, when I first started trying to play music and specifically playing the guitar, I re and writing songs, I was really trying to like, I was really trying to like, be good at it. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. I still have those. I still do it. Same, same, I'm not trying to... But I can remember my buddy and I, we would play once a week, we would go to a shop and play music together. And we never could really make a lot of progress because we were just kind of nervous around each other. And we were just trying to be perfect. It was like, oh no. And he's a perfectionist. And he would be like, no, here's how you play the A, and here's how you play the D, and here's how play the E. And we would just get so caught up in that. And then he and I tried to write a couple of songs. I remember we tried to write song about like this gypsy woman who was going to read our fortune. She was tinkling and had silver bracelets. it just never was, yeah, dude, that song is out there somewhere. And we wrote another one about leaving the church, you But uh they were just, I was just trying so hard to make everything sound perfect. And there's a point for me saying this because like, Fast forward to, and you and I have always kind of joked about how through this journey, the people who are closest to us, it's like they don't want to hear our songs. They can always hear us playing in the background or we're like, come here, sit down. I want to play this song for you. And it's like, oh, this is really weird, like one-on-one song playing. It's the hardest thing. I know part of it's like, part of it is there, think, the responding to the vibe I'm putting out with it, because there's something about playing one-on-one with people you're closest to. It's like, hey, I'm going to open up a piece of my soul here and kind of bleed in a weird way. And you're close enough to me that I really care. It's not like, I don't want you to be grossed out. I don't want you to be. just like, it's just like read the room type of stuff. You know what I mean? It's like pulling your dick out too soon or something like that. It's just like easy does it there, bud. Like just take her easy. and so I used to go through that a lot and I used to get really in my own head about like, I just want this to be like, what's the right cadence and what's the right sound. And, and I remember Eric, I remember playing a song for Eric. Remember my lame, you know, my Lamanite song, dude, that thing has gone through so many versions because I'm just like, I was playing it yesterday, by the way. That song. Yeah. This is a fucking great song. But that song has gone through a lot of versions because it was like early, early days of songwriting for me. And so I kept changing it to try to like make it right. If that makes sense. was like, I got to improve it. I got to make it right. And, and, but, but it can't make it right. It's got to make it how it sounds. Do you know what I mean? And that's so fast forward to this. This is a cool thing. Cause this happened just a uh couple of nights ago where You know, so my wife, like here we're coming into the holiday scene. Dude, my wife is like a prolific sugar, Christmas sugar cookie maker. What I mean by that is that she makes Christmas themed sugar cookies and then she does homemade frosting where she makes frosting from scratch. And then she has like friends over and then the kids friends over and then family members. And she has like multiple things where it's like, Let's play Christmas music and let's frost cookies and let's like everybody put their own little spin on it. And so we have a million versions of little candy cane shaped sugar cookies and a million versions of little, you know, Christmas tree shaped sugar cookies. And she just, she just kills it, man. So that's the perfectly, you're right. She's the, like, because when you first said that, I thought you meant she was the type, because there's the types that are like, oh, I want it to be a certain way. Here are the things, I wanna make it perfect. It has to be a certain way. has to be, yeah, yeah. hundreds of these things. Every year she makes hundreds of these things. And then like, you know, neighbor children and friends of our family and family members. we do these sessions of like, okay, now create your masterpiece. You know what I mean? And people can grab a candy cane or they can grab a Christmas tree. They can grab a, you know, like an ornament, like a... like an ornament ball or what's the other, like maybe a root, a reindeer, you know, shaped one. And they just, can decorate it however they want. Cause she's got all the different frostings and colors and, and, uh, you know, sprinkles and little balls and stuff like that. And so everyone makes their own thing. And the other night I was, I was like, wow, that's like a, that's art. Like everyone's just making their own fucking Christmas sugar cookie. You know, and some of them look professionally done and some of them that are made by my son look a little heavy on the frosting and a little gloppy and a little bit sloppy and whatever, but everyone eats them and they're great. And we give them away and we go around and you know, we, we, go around and give them away to people and everybody just loves them. And Jesus, dude, I can tie this into music too. The other, the other night when she was baking, when she was like doing the cookie part. She's in the kitchen just like crushing cookies. And so I'm in the other room just playing my guitar, just tinkering away. And I didn't have anything and I wasn't playing any of my, I was just playing something new. And I just started getting, you know how sometimes, and you and I have had this before where you just start, you find, suddenly you like, you're tinkering away and you're kind of vibing. And then suddenly you just find something and you get really into it, right? Yeah, it feels like it feels like I'm being wrapped in the like a hug of source. Yeah. there's entities and energies around you that are urging you forward and that energy is just flowing everywhere. And so I just was in the zone and probably for like, I don't know, mean, conservatively it was probably like six to eight minutes. just playing, I'm not singing anything, I'm just playing this tune and it's emerging, this melody is emerging. And I end and I'm like, whew. I breathe out some big blow, you know, some big wind, you know? And from the other room, like this is the lady who never wants to hear a goddamn song I've ever sang in my life. Right. From the other room, she goes, what was that? Ha ha ha ha. like, I just, don't know. It just came kind of, it just kind of came through at something new. And she's like, it sounded like there were three guitars in there. She's like, I thought that, I thought that the, I thought the girls, my daughters, she's like, I thought the girls were in there playing guitar with you. Cause she goes, sounded like there were three guitars. And I was like, I was like, Holy shit, babe, same. Like when I was playing it, sounded like there were three guitars playing. And it's like, this scene from Sinners. And so like there's something and I know this is like a, this is kind of a stretch, but like, like the stretch being while she's doing this thing that allows for everyone to like, she's creating this like baseline for everyone to be able to express themselves through making a sugar cookie. Suddenly while she's just doing that, her, her giving her gift, her joy is like filling the house. And so I'm just like, playing the guitar and like trying to keep up and it's just like filling our entire house and it sounds like three motherfucking guitars, dude. You're just feeding off the energy. Just moving the energy. Fuck yes. Fuck yes. trying to say is like, I, I, I'm lately, and I'm glad we're talking about our first songs and our last songs because I think, I think in my life, I've been a little too judgmental of my older songs, my earlier songs, because they're too simple or they're too like clunky or I tried too hard with them. but I've been kind of revisiting them with a spirit of like, okay, let's see what was going on in my little heart and my little life when I was doing this. And they're like coming back to life for me, dude. I fucking love music. God damn, this is a, our podcast is, we're changing our podcast from Mormons on Mushrooms to a couple of dudes talking about how much they love music. That's the name of the podcast. Couple of dudes talking about how much they love music. Who happened to be Mormons who do a lot of mushrooms? Yeah. and no, cause Doug, like, the moment I've, I've had one of those moments with Audrey that was Neverland, right? Like I got back from, uh, from where we get back from a date, get back from a date and I'm feeling it was a good day. I'm feeling it. You know, I'm in that moment of like, okay, she's brushing her teeth. Maybe sexy times happen and maybe not kind of deal, you know, but then I just start playing. I was playing like this thing to kind of serenade her a little bit, you know, but I didn't know she could hear it. Cause she's like, right. But then I just get lost in this like, I make a mistake and I like the mistake and so I lean in and then for like a few minutes I was just playing that over and over and I was just kind of like lost in this trance with it. And she stops mid brushing teeth and she looks over and she's like, what is that? And I'm like, I don't know, but I love it. dude. And so it's been like, love, mean, those are fun moments. That's a moment I'm always going to remember. And that's like, oh damn, like, yeah, it was one of my favorite little moments. That's so good, that's so beautiful. Doug, I'm loving this, Let's just end it right there. Were you putting up like something like that? we should keep that in there. But I just was feeling like, let's just end it right there. Yeah. Maybe in future apps. In the future up, Dude, we'll just turn it into song. Our new thing is just like breaking down our songs. We should do that too, actually. would actually fucking love it. I would actually like you to, so that song you were talking about, Doug, I would like you to play it and then like talk about breaking down. You know, it'll become fun. Dude, fucking love you, man. Fucking love you. Thanks for writing music. Thanks for like, you know. Thanks for being my partner in crime on this little adventure, dude. Like, I don't write music without you write music and vice versa, think, so. Yeah. Aw, more cube SDs. Love you.