What in the Flying F**k? (#221)

Mike and Doug revisit the Mormon mythos and the Book of Mormon, from headless Shiz gasping for breath to Utah’s mission-call pageantry and the culty performance of modern Mormonism. Doug reads from the book of Ether while Mike keeps interrupting with memories and myth, and somehow it all circles back to Jesus, ayahuasca, and The NeverEnding Story. A mix of laughter, rage, reverence, and the strange beauty of waking up.

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Transcript

1:28

Yeah, better clear that out before the whole thing starts recording. Yeah, live. Welcome. Hello. Hello, everyone. um Hey, can I start, by reading to you from the Book of Mormon? mean, the more I'm on mushrooms, what else would we do? You finished it. What number is that for you? you been keeping count? it's in the double digits. I mean, like I was a stalwart dude, you know, I hard, you know? Um, but this was my first time reading it with this, with, with, you know, I wasn't, I wasn't faithfully reading it. wasn't pondering and like searching, reading it. And I wasn't angry reading it. I was just curiously reading it this time, you know? And dude, it's fucking bat shit crazy. But is it kind of good too? No. I'm wondering how it holds up. I think after we recorded, I think it was last episode you were bringing it up, I was thinking back on some of the stories. like, you know, some of the stories are pretty dope. I'm gonna read, it's gonna be little clunky, but I'm gonna read to you from the book of Ether. yeah, I remember that one. was, yeah. to remember, this is the selected parts that were translated by the Prophet Joseph Smith because of the importance to our modern time, to these latter days, right? getting the- he's already edited it. He's already had it. is, mean, Moroni is, this is Moroni kind of doing this, uh, you know, Moroni pops in once in a while in the book of ether to be like, Hey, just so you know, here's kind of what I'm, here's what I'm feeling about this whole thing. Right. So it was like way long after the brother Jared and Mahan Ray, Mori Ankom or all that kind of stuff. It's like the prophet ether born in captivity. He starts preaching day and night, blah, blah, blah. King Coriantum or his reigning supreme and, uh, people are rise up. talked about, sorry to cut you off, have we talked about Jared and Mohan Ray Mori Ankomar on this podcast yet? don't think we ever have, it's the fun. It's one of the funnier things in the world, right? Like, like the whole thing is like, yeah, there's this guy, Jared. And then there's this guy that brother Jared. Now the brother Jared is the one that's a little more righteous and speaks with the Lord. And the Lord came down and touched the stones with his fingers and stuff like that. And it's like, it's like, imagine, imagine going to their wedding. It's like, oh yeah, this is, this is my son, Jared. And this is my son, more Hanrai, more Ancomer. Uh, and we call him the brother of Jared. It's like, are we doing here? for some reason we gave him a name that's way too long and I don't know why. First baby, first baby comes out and they're like, he shall be known as my hundred money on Khmer. Second baby comes out and they're like, fuck it. Jared. His name's Jared now. We're just calling him Jared. We don't got any more names. Sorry to all the Jareds out there, like, you know, my name's Doug, so I don't feel too bad for you, you My temple name is Dan, so I have double, like, I have a double lack of sympathy for any of you Jareds out there. But you have to face it, Mahonrai Moriankumer is a way doper name than your name, Jared. I mean, it's so much better. it's like, did he just run out of creativity? But that's where sometimes with, that's where sometimes when I was faithful, I was like, well, clearly no one's going to make that shit up. It's got to be. jot this down. there's a guy, Jared. Well, really it's actually the brother of Jared is running around building submarines, talking to the Lord, touching stones. And then later on, and by the way, we don't find that out in the Book of Mormon. It's like, think, I think the story goes that Joseph Smith like was giving a blessing and said the name of Henry Moriankomer. And then later it's like, by the way, that's the name of the brother of Jared. It's like, what, what, what are we talking about? What, what is going on in this whole little. religion we're building. Oh, so it doesn't say it in the Book of Mormon. Oh, okay, that's like a, okay. All right, well anyway, I cut you off, continue. All right, so that last couple of chapters of the book of ether, I'm going to be real brief, but I'm going to read this to you because it's important that the world got this information. Okay. That's what I was reading. I was reading. was like, wow, this is fucking crazy. You ready? I'm ready. And it came to pass that the people began to flock together in the armies throughout all the face of the land. And they were divided, and a part of them fled to the army of Shiz, and a part of them fled to the army of Coriantimer. And so great and lasting had been the war, and so long had been the scene of bloodshed and carnage, that the whole face of the land was covered with the bodies of the dead. And so swift and speedy was the war that there was none left to bury the dead. But they did march forth from shedding of blood to the shedding of blood, leaving the bodies of both men, women, and children, strewed about upon the face of the land to become a prey to the worms of the flesh. And the scent thereof went forth upon the face of the land, even upon all the face of the land. Wherefore, the people became troubled by day and by night because of the scent thereof. Anyway, so we've established this like stinky, it's like dead body corpse stinky on the whole face of the land, right? I love how many words it takes to describe that. eh to say that. And goes, and also his men, and he swore in his wrath that he would slay Coriantumur, or he would perish by the sword. Wherefore, he did pursue them, and on the morrow he did overtake them, and they fought again with the sword, and it came to pass that when they had all fallen by the sword, save it were Coriantimer and Shiz. Behold, Shiz had fainted with the loss of blood. So just pause here. In glorious epic battle fashion, just like you're watching Game of Thrones on TV, the last two fighters standing just happened to be like the leader of one side and the leader of the other side. They're all phasing off, shink, clink, clink, clink, clink, swishing their swords against each other. And it's just, yeah. Hemanus Skeletor, Coriantumor and Shiz going at it. Now Shiz has fainted from loss of blood. Okay? This is important. This is important to the nations of this land in this day and age to know that Shiz is all out of blood. And it came to pass, and it came to pass that when Coriantumor had leaned upon his sword, that he rested a little. He smote off the head of Shiz. And it came to pass that after he had smitten off the head of Shiz, that Shiz raised up on his hands and fell. And after that, he had struggled for breath. He died. So this headless torso is struggling for breath. I don't know which part is struggling for breath. Is there a gaping like from the head, from the neck wound or is this little like decapitated head laying there being like, I can't breathe. And it came to pass. Oh, go ahead. old clash of the Titans? Like the original clash of Titans? I think when he cuts off Medusa's head, I think she does the same thing. Yeah, she kind of like, it flops around and tries to get breath and yeah. Yeah, and then she like, I remember, then she like, flops down and then the blood starts oozing out her her toxic blood that like, you know, yeah, yeah. is this boring you I'm gonna read two more, okay getting images as I keep interrupting you. No, I'm actually really loving this. And it came to pass that Coriantumur fell to the earth and became as if he had no life. And the Lord spake unto Ether and said unto him, Go forth. And he went forth and beheld that the words of the Lord had all been fulfilled. And he finished his record and the hundredth part I have not written. And he hid them in a manner that the people of Limhi did find them. Now the last words which are written by Ether are these. Quote. Whether the Lord will that I be translated or that I suffer the will of the Lord in the flesh, it mattereth not. If it so be that I am saved in the kingdom of God, amen. Now that's the end of the book of ether. so Coriantumor decapitates Shiz. Shiz wriggles around on the ground gasping for air. And then all we know is that Coriantumor f**** falls to the ground as if he had no life and then they don't continue the story from there because the Lord turns to the prophet, either he's like, okay, go for it. Okay, ether, now you got to just go forth. And either is like, I guess I'll go forth. And he was going, well, if the Lord is happy with me, just kind of wandered around a little bit, that's cool. But also if he wants to translate hint, hint Lord, if you're out there and you'd like to take me up into heaven, like uh city of Enoch, I'd be down. So it's like, reading the Book of Mormon this time, what's happened to me is that it's made me sort of like breathe a sigh of relief a little bit and also be like, okay, so most of my Mormon friends and family aren't reading the Book of Mormon. They may claim that they are and they may say they're doing their scripture study and they may be doing the lessons for... You church. these players ain't reading this thing and being like critically thinking like what the hell's going on here? They're not like reading it with a critical eye and saying this isn't working for me, doc. It's it's so much more clunky than I remember as you were reading it back. uh I stumbled a couple times, but I read it pretty truthfully, right? I mean, it's pretty wild. not say I'm not calling your reading of it clunky. I'm calling them. Yeah. dude, it's hard, right? It's hard to track. And so he just like was like cast away for the rest of his life. He, you know, had to find like a uh coconut to wherever he was on the mer... And then he had, and it's such like an inception, it's such an inception thing, right? Because it's like, okay, it started out some people over in like Jerusalem came over to the new world and then started warring and got wiped out. And there was one lone prophet wandering the earth and he buried a record that the people of Limhi found when they left. you they another set of people. it's just like repeating itself. It's like, dude, don't you have any original ideas? Does God just have this like, God, I got it. I got to get people over to the Americas. Every time I send a group of people over to the Americas, they just go extinct. They keep killing each other off with these kings and wars. But now I'm remembering because, you know, the last time I read the Book of Mormon, the church, think, was still in the thing with like, they are the principal ancestors of the American people. And now they've changed it to say they are among the ancestors. Yeah. So like, he could have wandered. Maybe he didn't have to be, you know, talking to Wilson the rest of his life. Maybe he ran and found some of the other people that... Yeah, I mean. like, I... Yeah, who was around? You know, this brings up something, unless, I mean, I don't want to take us on a tangent, um lately, you know, it's interesting how it all comes in cycles, right? When you're like, I'm kind of done with the angry stage and now I'm like moving on and stuff. And then like with stuff like the whole like changing of the garment thing and all these little changes the church is making, which on one hand, I'm like, I'm really glad that women You know, can show their shoulders now. I'm really, really glad my nephews can call home once a week on their missions. I'm glad that women don't have to veil their faces in the temple anymore. I'm really glad, but also what the fuck? And yes, I'm like, I'm angry because, um, you know, my mission was so hard and the last, um, have we talked about this? I don't want to repeat it, but. Whatever, I'm just gonna say it. the last phone call, my mission president was like a real stickler and was like, oh, only a 10 minute phone call home. And I was an obedient, over-hyper confessing missionary. And so I did that because I thought that's what the Lord wanted me to do. And then to have the Lord just change his mind 20 years later over something like that, it just, how are people still going? oh how the Lord just happens to give us continued revelation that matches up with technology? Yeah, exactly. Isn't that, isn't that such a faith builder that the Lord only gives us the access to the things that we need and the, and the commandments change based on the available technology. I mean, you and I can complain all we want, Mike, cause you know, you said you did a 10 minute phone call. I was allowed a 20, I was allowed 20 minute phone calls on Mother's Day and Christmas. I was allowed 20 minute phone calls and I adhere to that like a, like a good boy. Um, And now you and I are sitting here having a little pity party being like, well, these kids now, like good for them, you know, to help with their separation anxiety. And they're just like little children. get their cell phones and they get to call home and they get to have Facebook. But like, think about the cats that were going on missions in Joseph Smith's days. It was like, he's just like, Hey, you get it. You get, listen, you got to head over to England and you know, be there for a while, be there for as long as you need. And, and I'll take care of your wife and children. Trust me, I'll take care of your wife. Trust me. good care of your wife especially, she's got that ass. But like, it's like, isn't it helpful that these missions that the Lord is always, that those who are called upon to serve the Lord. They have to learn the first principles of the gospel, obedience is bedrock. It's foundational principle of the gospel. And obedience just so happens to match up with the available technology of the day. God damn, what a lucky duck. How lucky we are that the Lord is so giving and loving that he keeps on just saying like, doesn't go, you get. You guys go ahead and go to England on these little missions with your wife and kids staying home in a Navu, but, in a, in a, a couple of hundred years, there's going to be like cell phones. There's going to be like iPhones. It's going to do it. amazing. I'm actually going to inspire this guy to make a uh iPhone. It's going to be so sick. I wish you guys could see him, but yeah, you're just not faithful enough. So you had to be born back in these dumb ass days. And, you know, to be honest, really, I think why my mission president, so we didn't really have a time limit the first few phone calls we did. It was just my last, or I guess my last two phone calls. I really think the driving force behind my mission president implementing that rule was because he had to report back to the area presidency on how big the phone bills were. I really think, I think it was a, I think it was a money thing on long distance calling. I don't think it was. And, he is gunning for to be a 70 and gunning for his next promotion within the church. And, you know, he's like, he was so focused on baptisms and baptismal numbers and how much better we were doing than the last mission president or the like on baptisms. And, uh, you know, he, was gunning, he was gunning for like bigger things. And it makes me really happy that he never got it. He never got a 70 thing. Ha Dude, it's so corporate, It's like these guys want their region, like they're a regional vice president. Like these mission presidents are regional vice presidents that are doing like, honestly, it's like pest control sales, basically, right? They just send all these college-age kids to all the corners of the earth that go knocking on doors and sell their product. And these guys are like, Okay, here's how business works. Dude, no, I mean, no wonder there are so many successful businesses that like Utah is crazy. By the way, Utah is just fucking crazy, man. Like I just came up from Thanksgiving. You know, I was down there like Utah. Utah is nuts with the retail, like with the, the, the spending, like, I don't know what economic factors or indicators that the rest of the country looks at, but if somebody worked me in. Salt Lake over the like on Black Friday, they'd be like, this is the best economy the world's ever seen. There's, there's, there is nothing but money to spend. There's nothing but money going around. Everybody's gotten plenty of money. And it's getting more intense too in Utah, everything. Like, I mean, speaking of mission calls, I just saw something pop up on Instagram or something again of those like an 18 year old girl, because now girls can go at 18 years old. uh And she looks so young. She was a baby. And opening her mission call and there's like 60 people in the house and it's this big production and they're broadcasting it on Instagram. How? How do 18 year olds in Utah say no to missions nowadays? How could they possibly say no to that? it was hard enough back in the nineties, but like now how, how could you? mean, and you're going to miss out on the picture draped in your flag by the temple with all of your friends. That's probably bigger than your graduating photo now. And you're everyone like, you're going to everyone else's party. You're not going to have your, your, your house party for your mission opening. Mike, if we could regularly get 60 people in person and broadcast a live stream of our music, we would be tickled pink. We would be happy as clams. Listen, I know everybody's music taste is different, but I know goddamn well that our music is much more edifying and entertaining and joyful. than watching a teenager read a letter from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints about what country they're gonna go sell their product. What is going on with this shit, dude? How can people think this is not a cult? How can people think it is anything other than a brainwashed cult? How can they think that? that's what I'm trying to figure out now because well, and even the reading of the letter, the letters changed. when we read it, it was like you're hereby called to serve a mission, you will be called to serve. And they got right to the point that everyone wanted to. Now they read this big old thing that you will, they read the propaganda before they get to the part where everyone, holding everyone in suspense as they read the same thing. And they can't skip a word. Everyone's heard it millions of times. They can't just be like, open it up and like, oh, it's Tokyo. They have to kind of go through. It's like the sacrament prayer. You have to read every word. It's become this ritual. it doesn't count. know, the bishop's gonna look over and nod and make you read the mission call again. Question, I mean, what's going on here? It's so funny. But guess that's what happens, like as, you know, um as the world is catching up, or like, not the world's catching up, as like, the internet and, you know, people like... As Mormonism is getting exposed, they have to amp up the control factors. it's almost like an organism, sometimes it doesn't even almost feel like the church intentionally does it. It's like the members themselves do it to deal with the cognitive dissonance, that it becomes almost like this grounds up level of intensity. The intensity feels like it's amplified, but at the same time, it's also gotten more lax on things. Like uh a friend came and visited and she was talking about how she went to an ex-Mormon friend and she went to a mission reunion or mission farewell or whatever. And uh she hadn't been to church in a while and one of her friends was there and she was wearing a cross. And she kind of was taken aback and the friend was like, yeah, we can wear crosses now. Does that offend you that Mormons can wear crosses now? Ha No, it's just fucking weird because I remember on my mission, like, as a badge of honor that we don't honor the dead Christ, we honor the living Christ. Yeah. And it was, was my religion. we, we worship the living Christ. That's why we didn't have a cross. And now it's like, crosses are fine. Shoulders are fine. get them. Yeah. Get, you know what? You know what? You don't need to be wearing your workout clothes. You don't need to be like, like vaguely in the vicinity of working out in the next 48 hours. You know what I mean? You can just wear, you can just wear tank tops. It's fine. Like that's the new thing. You know what I mean? Oh, by the way, by the way, bare shoulders were never a problem. We just were kidding around about that whole thing. What? What happened? Like I know a lady. I know a lady who went on a, God, this was like 15 years ago. She went on a trip with her husband to Hawaii and she posted on Facebook, I think Facebook was the only thing in those days. She posted on Facebook pictures from her trip to Hawaii. And one of the pictures was her and her family um on the beach. And the bishop, when they got home, the bishop called her in. and talk to her about posting photos of herself with her husband and children in a swimsuit because of the dangerous thoughts that that could give to the men in the ward that were friends with her on Facebook, which really is just that bishop being like, hey, by the way, I think that your body's hot and I beat off to you earlier. Just wanted to let you know. That's what happened, right? I can't hold my own shame, I have to find a scapegoat for my shame. I just want to let you know that I was like really examining your beach pictures. God almighty. Dude, that's creepy. That's really creepy. ah It's so weird how it just kind of like it's, you know, in this whole process of like trying to unpack it all. Like, you know, you go through these things are like, I don't care. I like, I don't, I don't see when general conference comes on anymore. And I don't, you know, I'm not on ex Mormon Reddit anymore and I've moved past it. And then you hear some things. come up and you're like, well, what the flying fuck? No Like you know, we've we've talked about over the last, know, five years we've talked about how You know, we've kind of come full so both of us have talked about kind of come in full circle with like the concept of prayer, right? think I think both of us is it my fair to say that both of us kind of pray now? Yeah, absolutely. Okay. But when we first started this podcast, we were really triggered by the concept of prayer, right? Well, I remember why. I was exposed to some prayers recently. listen, you know, whatever, you know, I saw, by the way, we can talk, you know how in like the Knives Out movie, there's like quite a lot of praying, right? Yeah, by the way, I love that movie man. Fucking love it. eh It's based around a Catholic priest, basically, and it's a murder mystery, but there's a lot of Catholic prayer. And Catholic prayer is that real harsh, sort of like, you know. m What's what I'm looking for here just like very consistent, you know the Lord's Prayer or bless me father for I've sinned just that kind of stuff, you know Did Mormon prayers are so freaking weird? it's like they're they're weirdly like needy and sycophantic and like Like a pick me there's almost like a pick me like level of like weird like people are praying they're like We love thee father and we're so grateful for the sacrifice of thy son and we're just really wanting everybody. And then they give a little like, they kind of give like a little sermon, like a little tiny mini sermon in the prayer. And then it's like, who can like, who can like church up? Like you're already saying in the name of Jesus Christ, amen. But people try to church that thing up too, right? It's like a contest. been amplified even more now. I'm sure it's even gotten bigger. Dude, there's all sorts of ways to say in the name of Jesus Christ, amen. You can say like, these things we ask in the name of thy beloved son, Jesus Christ, amen. Or you can say, Lord, we pray in the name of thy son, Jesus Christ, amen. Or you can say in the name of thy beloved son, Jesus. There's always ways to say it. And it's like, bro. Do you think God's going to be fooled? like, do you think God's like, man, I can tell that cat really digs my thing. I can tell that that's a worshiper right there. Like I'm tired of all these milk toast lukewarm piece of shit parishioners that are doing the little sign of the cross and being like, bless me father for I have sinned or given the Lord's prayer or like walk through the valley of shadow. I'm tired of that shit. I like this guy over here. That's like, really sucking up to me a little bit. can tell that he means it. I can tell he really loves me. And furthermore, I can tell he loves my family. I'm really proud of my son and I just want someone to acknowledge it, basically. I'm God. you just read about it. You read about the ramiumptum. Dude, yeah, mean, story of the Ramium, okay, let's get into this. The story of the Ramium, go ahead. similarly to like on an earlier podcast, how we broke down Lehigh's dream and we kind of flipped it in the way of like, I think Lehigh was wrong to be like, this is the way. And his dream is almost showing him that like when you, when you kind of establish a one true way, you create this dichotomy and you create this tension and you create this holding on and striving instead of letting go and being in the flow, you create suffering basically. When you, when you say this is the way so you know, Mormon would read that as like, no, this is like the tree of life is the thing. And I think if you can read it as a dream and be like, no, you can see how by him doing this, he's created suffering. It's so I I'm kind of curious now about the rami umptom story, how Mormons Mormons are Utah is a rami umptom. One big rami umptom. rambuntan is, it's a platform, right? I mean, they're basically climbing up one by one, climbing up onto this platform, throwing their hands to the sky and trying to like performatively pray, right? Which goes in direct, is in direct conflict with what Jesus taught, which is like, that's fine, they can have it their way if they're gonna go out in the streets and make a big deal about the way they pray, but. You know, when you pray, go into your closet, do it in secret. That's what Jesus's whole thing was, right? But then you go into the temple and it's like, put your hands up and as you slowly bring them down three times, say, God, hear the words of my mouth sitting at your altar. It's like, bro, pick a lane. What is this? Like, what like, like, are we allowed like we bowing our heads and folding our arms or we put our hands to the sky and bringing them down weirdly like we're doing some kind of like. slow motion dance moves. Do you know what I mean? Like, God, hear the words of my mouth. God, hear the words of my mouth. God, hear the words of my mouth. It's like, I don't know. I don't know what, there's so much conflict in like what we can and can't do. It's just like, if your bullshit meter is going off, listen to it. Like that's the thing that I want to tell younger Doug. It's like my bullshit meter was going off. at a young age, like when I was in primary, but it was just like, to your point, Mike, these kids, dude, they already go through the way that the school system is put together, the way that discipline and obedience is taught both in schools and church and at home. How can an 18 year old, who by the way, just became like a legal adult, like a legal 18 year old, how can they be making a decision to spend? 18 or 24 months of their life in a foreign country preaching, teaching people about something they don't know. They don't know fucking shit about. It's dude, I'm sorry I'm so riled up tonight, but it's like crazy. papers when they were 17. So they agree to go on and they submit it. then they go on. everything is so showy in Utah. And I think you're seeing the shadow of it or revealed in like the Secret Lives of Mormon Wives. And it's... The prosperity gospel, it's all for show. It's just one big giant rameum. Yeah, it's performative religion. Like honestly, I feel so condescending saying this, like, if you gotta prove to me how religious you are, I just don't buy it. I don't think you believe it. I don't believe you. I guess that's my default setting, right? I hate sounding, I feel like I sound like I feel like I'm smarter than people or that I'm very condescending. I'm not trying to sound that way. But it's like, if you... If you're going to convince me so hard, if you got to go to such great lengths to convince me that you have faith. I'm not the guy you're trying to convince. I think you're trying to convince yourself. I think all of Utah is just the emperor's new clothes. Everyone's just like, everyone's doing like a George Costanza lie where it's like, we've gone this far, we might as well just keep going. Gotta just lean into the lie. This week I've been re-listening to, I haven't done it since when I first left Mormonism, I listened to The Power of Now. Or not even the first left Mormonism, like the first, know, but I haven't re-listening to it lately. And Eckhart Tolle, he says a similar thing. He's like, religion is filled with people who speak of God, but have never experienced what that is. Dude, that's such a good- And I feel like that's, mean, and so it comes across hollow. comes across and you haven't experienced the, mean, in the book, The Power of Now, he talks about God is the now. It is the moment. It is it. It's the beautiful, terrifying, ever-present now. and um You know, like it's, and as soon as you try to describe it, you can't anymore. It's, know, the Tao, all religious traditions, including Jesus in the Bible, that's what he's talking about. And as soon as you try to talk about it, it slips away. You can't, it has to be experienced. It has to be felt. has to, it has to be witnessed. And, uh, and then that just really hit me. like, oh, that, that's so true. You've got to, and that's how I was, you know, I, And like when I was a missionary, and when I was a Mormon, like I would have a burning in my bosom and be like, that's God. Okay. I felt, I felt God. know what God is. And then, you know, when you're at mid ayahuasca ceremony and you're seeing, and time is no longer a thing. And you're seeing, uh, how your life is but like a brief moment and Everything you love is going to be gone and the terrifying aspect of that, but then also the beautiful, you know, I always laugh because this guy, he goes to school with me. I've done a Bufo with him a couple of times. And every time he does Bufo, he gets to like a place and he just goes, he just, wow. Wow. Wow. It's just like, I'm like, yeah, he's. guy. He's experiencing God in this moment for sure. uh Oh, yeah. The awe of it, you know, the awe-inspiring nature of God and God being not like a bearded man in the sky, but the mystery of consciousness, the mystery of this, the mystery of creation. End. Like, I like, I love thinking about God, you know? Yeah, I guess I do. know what mean? Like, I love thinking about God being like, they're doing what with their dicks? uh Like, he finds out that someone's cranking away at their own dick. Holy shit, I didn't think they would go that far. realize they would do it on their own. That was a loophole I didn't envision. That's a sin. m on here? Oh, maybe I designed one too many holes in the human body. I'm frankly, God's up to God, frankly I wasn't all that enthused about the oral sex, but now they've taken it a little too far. Really, in hindsight, I should have made it more of a key and it only fits in one of the specific holes. It's not going in a mouth or an anus. It's only one hole for this. He's like sitting there shaking his head, looking at Jesus. He's like, did I make, did I make the human genitalia too sensitive? it's like sexual pleasure too fun. What have I done? What have I done? They've got political parties about their genitals. Like, like God's sitting there scratching his head like, wow, most of politics can be solved by who's having sex with who. and who's trying to hide it and lie about it, just instead of embracing that part of them. What a hilarious cat. Like, he's gotta be sitting there just going, what is... Because look, we know that God is impatient with the way humans are behaving. He created everybody and everybody was plugging along. Abba and Eve did their thing. And then after a few hundred years, he's like, man, these humans suck. Noah, go build a huge ass boat, because I'm gonna kill all the people. I'm tired of them. Humans suck! We gotta start from scratch! We're starting from scratch but with the same genetics as before so it's like, you know, it's like a... Yeah. like it's the same in the book of Mormon where it's like, Oh, these goddamn motherfucking Jesus came and everybody became a Nephi or whatever. Everybody believed for four generations and then four generations go by and everybody's like, I don't, I don't really think grandma saw Jesus deal. It's like, okay, let's get back to, let's get back to warring with each other. I'm a proud Lamanite and you're a proud Nephi. Let's fucking fight, bro. So speaking of which, were there any parts that surprised you now? Were there any parts that were like, oh you know what, I actually like this part of the story? Or parts that like, oh that was actually a good little passage? Well, I'll tell you what this is going to sound a little bit trite probably. but you know, you get through like the big war chapters, like Alma, like Alma 30 through whatever is like, there's like 20 chapters. It's just war, you know, and it gets kind of mundane and it gets a little bit like, what are we, what's going on here? But then I have to Mike, I hate that I must say this, but there is a, there is a strong change of tone when Jesus basically does the Sermon on the Mount. He comes to visit them and does an encore of the Sermon on the Mount. uh where it's copied from the Bible, basically. Yeah, where it's from, we're going to copy it. But I have to tell you that I was reading through that and I was like, damn, this is like good shit. Like this is like basic level human kindness. this is so simple. the message that Jesus is always trying to share. is always so simple. how humans, I hate saying this, especially religious humans, how they keep fucking up Jesus's message is mind boggling to me. It's a baffling. So to answer your question, the Pokemon was a slog, dude. Getting through it was tough. I was like, ugh, why am I doing this? But I did enjoy, I did enjoy reading in like, I think it's third Nephi. I did enjoy reading Jesus about Jesus. I was like, dude, it's fucking hard. It's fucking simple. Why are they making it so hard? All this shit to say, be kind. Yeah. I really feel like as liberals, um know, when like uh they want to, uh when conservatives want to put the 10 commandments in schools, like in Texas. Texas Democrats should just one up them and be like, oh no, absolutely. Actually, why don't you put the sermon on the mount in schools? See what they would do. Like, let's put a poster of the sermon on the mount in every classroom. I wonder what they would do. Let's honor Christianity. Let's honor Christ. Let's honor those teaching of the Sermon on the Mount and and Blessed are the poor, blessed are the meek. When he starts talking about people trying to sue you for your jacket, give them also your shirt, somebody asks you to walk a mile, walk with them twain, somebody slaps you on the face, let them do it seven times, like Jesus is, the message of Jesus is very clear. It is. Cut the shit, stop being so materialistic, stop being so judgmental of everybody else, and love one another. I know it's hard. I'm not saying do the easy part, which is love the people you love already. I'm saying... Love the parts about yourself that you have a hard time loving. Love the parts about your enemies that you have a hard time loving that make them your enemies. Love your neighbors. Love everyone. Rich man comes to Jesus and he says, hey, what can I do to enter the kingdom of God? And Jesus is like, obey the commandments. Homeboy's like, I do, I already did it. I do the commandments. I'm already really good at it. Jesus looks him up and down and he's like, okay, then sell everything that you have and come follow me. And the dude's like, pssss, deuces, peace out. Jesus does not mince words, man. Like that's the weirdest thing. And by the way, I don't think Democrats are very good at Jesus stuff either. I think that humans in general use Jesus as this like weird thing of like this weird badge of like, okay, I believe in him and therefore I can justify through his atonement or through how I interpret it or how I'm flawed or how, whatever it is. or how I'm chosen. People use that as a way to to excuse their shitty behavior. Like it is, I don't know, Mike, am I being too preachy right now? I it's just like, go Jesus. Like if, if, if people wanted to be more like Jesus, I would join that political party, but neither none of the political parties and none of the nations on earth and none of the fucking people in positions of power give a shit about Jesus because Because the whole thing is that Jesus is like, forsake your power and your material belongings and your possessions and all your cool shit. Live a simple life, take care of your needs and love everyone. Actually, he actually says, live a simple life and your needs will be taken care of for you. Like, God will consider the lilies of the field, right? but when he said consider the lilies of the field, he was talking specifically to his 12 apostles. So you don't have to take that seriously. It's like, what the fuck are you talking about? Then why is it in there? It reminds me of a... 12 apostles of the Mormon Church millionaires? Consider the fucking lilies. Um, one of my big moments that like was starting to really lead me out, this is right before I moved to California. Um, a family member, they had left Mormonism and they were like, uh, or they were leaving Mormonism, but they, I didn't know at the time, but they were reading some of these Christian reading Christian books. And there was an author, Philippi Ansey, who I read a few of his books. One was called what's so amazing about grace. And it's a beautiful. book about Christ. And I was like, this, oh, this is the atonement that I I get it. I get forgiveness. I get grace. And, and now anytime I had to like listen to like a fucking basketball analogy, basketball team or whatever, like, the atonement is like having Christ as the, as your point guard on your basketball team. You could suck, but you know, like shut up. You don't, you don't get it. You don't get it. Or like the tricycle thing, like, oh, you want to buy a tricycle and you, or a bicycle and you can't afford it, but then you save up and you scrimp and save, you try your hardest and you only make like $5, but the bicycle costs a hundred and that's okay. Jesus makes up the rest. I'm like, no, you're not getting it. And then you read this book where he's talking about like a prostitute who, know, or he was given like real world examples of people destitute or. or people who have been shamed by society and grace, what grace means in those moments. know, what grace means in those moments when people are like they're most destitute and most desperate and most desperate for love and what like the grace of Christ meant to those people. I'm like, oh, damn, this is grace. And I was like, how am I feeling this now? And when I've been teaching Christ and I've read Jesus the Christ and I've read all those other books about Christ and this is the moment like, oh, this guy gets Christ, he understands him. Jesus the Christ. Doesn't that look like written in the temple or something? uh Was it? I don't really know. That's the lore of that book is that Talmage went to the Holy of Holies to write that book. And you know what, as far as Mormon books about Christ, probably is one of the better ones, but like, yeah. just so heavy handed. Like, what are we trying to understand? He said all the things he wanted to say. You Like how many times does the guy need to give a parable about like, listen, uh, yeah. So basically there's this like kind of mean guy and, and people came along and they were like, well, it'd be nice. Okay. Fine. Good point. of having it be required reading as a missionary, why don't we just read the Beatitudes some more? How about that, guys? what did Jesus have to say about it? Well, he seems pro human. He's like, Oh, what did Jesus say about the time that the waitress was kind of mean to you at a restaurant? You had to wait a little bit longer for your food. Did Jesus say you should really make a stink and ask for the manager and make a little MV and sit there and be grumpy and like fold your arms up and like tell your kids, well, I can't believe this takes so long. Or would you just be like, isn't it great that you can this kind of money and they just bring you food? Like I had to perform miracles to feed people and you're sitting in Tony Roma's getting unlimited all-you-can-eat ribs. Like what did Jesus have to say about shoulders? What? Jesus didn't see he wore a robe and sandals all day and was hanging out in like like beach weather you know what I mean? Holy shit. Well, you know, there's, some, Jesus hung out with the prostitutes and publicans, know, tax collectors. Hmm. Okay. Go on. Well, I'm just trying to say like, really did. You know, Jesus was like really forgiving and like really nonjudgmental. Okay. Continue to make your point. Well, I just, that's why I think that we shouldn't have welfare programs. Wait, what? That's why I'm here. That's why I think insurance companies should make so much money on healthcare. Okay. I don't quite get where your logic went from that, like, okay, good for you. Point taken, point taken. You seem to really like Jesus. So, uh, okay. Okay, you're wearing that cross I see that now you can wear as a Mormon You're doing the whiniest little kid voice to say, really do love thee Lord, in the name of Jesus Christ. Please bless our food. Please help it nourish and strengthen our bodies. And we're just so grateful for everything that we have. And we love thee Lord, we promise. We swear to God, we love thee so much. And we love Jesus too, by the way. Anyway. I'm tired of these black people acting like they deserve stuff. Like, okay, I don't know how you made that. I don't know where to go from here. Mike, I kind of put us through a screeching halt. I'm just trying to say it's, it's, it's cliche, but Jesus is my homeboy. Jesus is cool. Jesus, like I would like to do ayahuasca with Jesus. I would like to do drugs with Jesus because I think that he'd be sitting there and like, I think he'd be really chill. And he'd be like, man, he's holding it together pretty good over there. Like he seems to be all right, you know, and he's like laying there kind of like slouched on the couch. And when the joints passing around, you know, everybody's kind of like in the tail end of the trip and just kind of like strung out. And I think Jesus would take a couple of puffs and be like, and say something really cool and be like, you know what guys? It's not that hard, is it? I feel like if we just kind of like, we're doing it together, we're in it together. If we can just do this, I think that we're going to be okay. You're just like, damn dude, who invited Jesus? He's awesome. I'm glad he's here. That guy is like, he does not mince words. It reminds me of like listening to The Power of Now, like hearing Eckhart Tolle talk about like, you know, it's like a question and answer thing in the book where someone reads the question. By the way, the guy who reads the question sounds so, it bugs me. like, I mean, you know, I feel like the guy who's reading it treats Eckhart Tolle like Jesus, you know, like, you know, but um the guy says some good shit. But When he's just like, look, there are no problems. What are you talking about problems? There's no problems in the now. There are no problems. There might think be things you have to take care of now, but that's not a problem. The problem is in the future and a problem that, you know, the problems in the future regret and guilt is, in the past. In the now there's no problem, you know, and he's saying it in such a, like a Jesusy way. like, oh yeah, this is good shit. And I can just imagine smoking a joint with Jesus. And he's just like, guys, isn't this just, isn't life. Isn't this great? Aren't we having the time of our lives right now? Just sitting around... just being? And I would follow that guy. Jesus, like, take, like, takes a second drag on it. Big old one, right? Leans back. blows out puff smoke and goes, here's one for you guys. Like you've heard it said that you should love your neighbor. Check this out. What if we try to love our enemies? What if we tried to love the people that's hard to love, bro? Everybody's like, what? Jesus, it is all about love. Hell yeah, dog. And we'd start a drum circle about it. Like everybody would be like, ah-ho, and like shaking their shakers. We write a song about it. Like, no wonder, there's no wonder there's so many goddamn songs written about that guy. Cause he's like, cool. They were like, man, people were just like, dude, that guy had it figured out, dude. Wandering around, giving out fish and bread. Hanging out with his homeboys, having 12 guys at dinner. Like, what a- Seems like a good time. He sounds like a fun guy to hang out with. And then everybody's just like, well, okay, give me 10 % of everything that you have. Why? So I think what you're saying is the fan fiction was unnecessary. The fan fiction of the Book of Mormon was it's not, you the, we didn't need another Testament of Christ. We had, we didn't need that. Jesus was like, don't know what, many, how many versions of this story? Okay. Um, let's see. okay. Try this one. Dude, uh oldest brother stays home. Good kid does all the right things. Younger brother spends his inheritance, goes out horn around, gets addicted to drugs, destroys the family name, comes home. and says, sorry, dad, I just feel like I've fucked everything up. And then dad's like, you know what? Welcome back. Open arms. Kill the fatted calf. Let's have a party. I'm so glad you're home. Older brother's like, excuse me. That's the whole deal with God, by the way. Jesus is like, okay, so you see what I'm saying? People are gonna go around, they're gonna do things, they're gonna make mistakes. Some people are gonna be righteous, some people are gonna be unrighteous. It's gonna happen. Be kind to all of them. Be forgiving. Understand that people are human. Be cool. Be loving. Even in his story about the prodigal son, the one older brother, the righteous one is like, Pardon me, I don't agree with this whole fatted calf situation. I've been doing this since day one. It's like, dude, you're not getting it. I guess I'll tell another story. I guess I'll tell another parable to try to get you guys to figure out what I mean. Let me try a different angle here. This is not working. Yeah, poor Jesus, man. Poor Jesus. Poor Jesus. any final comments about the Book of Mormon? I mean, this has been a good little Book of Mormon episode and I feel like I've gotten out some Mormon shit that's resurfaced. It's like a pimple sometimes. You just have to pop it out sometimes from time to time. Yeah, it is. I'll tell you this. I don't recommend anybody read it. I feel like I did it for you so you don't have to. um There is a lot of misogyny. mean, the Book of Mormon is just really, you we talk a lot about like the hero's journey and stuff like that. The Book of Mormon is just regurgitating over and over the chosen one narrative. Like it's Nephi and then, you know, Obviously the sons of, well, Abinadi gets in there and then Alma leaves the King Noah thing and then the sons of Alma, Amulic and Ammon, all those castes. Tiankum, Captain Moroni, the brother of Jared. Geez, I'm skipping over so many people here, but then Mormon and then Moroni, it's all these like misunderstood like. Han Solo type of like, uh like, like guys that do it. I'm to fuck it. I'll do it myself. I'm the chosen one. There's a lot of chosen one energy in the book of Mormon. And so it's like, no wonder every Mormon boy is, is deeply harmed and, and, and, and Mormon women too. I'm not, I'm not listen. Mormon women have it worse than men for sure. I'm just saying no wonder every Mormon boy kind of thinks he's the chosen one is going to be like hot shit. You know, it's like, it's. We all feel like we're the chosen one. all feel like the savior complex in Mormonism. It's interesting, the myths that shape us. um that being, look what I, where is it? Hold on. Look what I started. I found this in a bookshop and I had to buy it because it just felt too much like. see that. Holy shit, the never ending story. it's got an Ouroboros on the cover. That's pretty cool. read it. I started it just a couple of nights ago. And I feel like it's going to be a better story than the book Mormon, but like never ending story is one that shaped me. And I mean, I talked about, I don't know if I'm talking about the podcast, but maybe I texted you, but like a few weeks ago, it was kind of interesting. Cause like a weeks ago, I was, I was really high and just put on the never ending story and was like crying during it and like. And seeing how psychological it all is, you know, like he's going through his journey. They go through the, the, the swamps of sadness. And then from the songs, the swamps of sadness, uh, Trey, goes to like the, like the apathy he does with like that big turtle. That's just apathy. Nothing matters. It's kind of going through the whole thing. Right. And, and, and then, then he gets saved at the moment from like this, trickster, you dragon who comes and saves it. It's just very like you could, it's. Very psychological. And it's a myth that shaped me. so like after I hadn't thought about that movie even a while, I just put it on, watched it, bawled my eyes out. Then I'm at this random bookshop that I'd never been in before in Echo Park, walk in there. I'm like, there's gotta be a good book here. And I was about to leave. And then there's this stack of books. It's like, you know, he just got, he just received. So he hadn't indexed it yet. He hadn't even priced it yet. I'm going through it. I'm like, Holy shit. It's a never ending story. So I'm like, how much is this? He's like, oh, I don't know. haven't, I just got it in. Let me look it up. And then he's like, by the way, check out this. And he showed me this. He has like a Spanish copy of it. It's like really, really old, but it was so much money and it was in Spanish and I really wanted to read it. So plus this one was big and what's the, who wrote that book? What's the original, is Spanish the original language? I don't know, it's Michael Endy. So Michael Endy, I think it was English probably. I don't know, I'll just look up the author. Hmm. Dude, we'll have to do an episode. have to report, return a report. Yeah, we'll do an episode on the numbering story and I think it'll be a better story than the Book of Mormon. We will go down, yeah. Bye buddy. All right, well, that seems good to me. Like, should we just end it with the never ending story? That seems cool. I think that's good. Yeah, let's do it. Okay. Love you. Love you too.