Try Again (#224)

Mike and Doug recount a cathartic, slightly unhinged weekend in Utah full of music, laughter, rituals, and deep connection. From a racist Uber ride and wandering the Joseph Smith Memorial building to writing a new song about living again, the episode moves through politics, spirituality, grief, and creativity without losing its joy. At the center is something simple and necessary: being alive together, making art, and remembering how good it feels to actually live.

Want more? Our full archive of 200+ Mormons on Mushrooms episodes — past conversations, stories, and musical adventures — now lives in on Supercast.

🎧 Join us there → mormonsonmushrooms.supercast.com

Stay informed of online and local events through the Underground Newsletter

Send a Contribution

Transcript

Copy Transcript Copied

1:32

Because I think the important part about the first night is that we do go through, like always something weird happens, right? So this particular time, the weird thing is that you, like the world is in chaos and there's all this like kind of crazy like Minneapolis protests and the ICE thing and all that kind of stuff. And so I got to the spot earlier than you did. You flew in. And by the time you flew in, was too high to come pick you up. So you had to take an Uber, right? Which is rare. Usually I pick you up, you know what I mean? But this was like one of those rare times. And it's really weird, like, so two days earlier, we were almost going to record, but it was the Minneapolis shit happening. we... I, and I was like mentally, mentally we just weren't available for it. Renee good had just been. yeah. And I was, uh, I was, had to work late. And so I call, so I had like pushed the recording back and then I'm calling, calling you on the, or I text you on the way back and I'm just like, look, uh, yeah, I'm sorry. We have to, you know, but I can record it this time. And you're like, or, and you're just like, you know what? I'm just not feeling down. I'm like, you know what? I'm not really either. So like, we were not feeling it to record two days earlier and I land. And the first thing that Uber driver talks about is the, uh, how. of the airport is because of illegal immigrants. Dude, when you showed up to the Airbnb, you were buzzing. You oh were full of electricity. And you're telling me the story like, as soon as you got in that guy's car, he's instantly like, man, these damn, all these illegals, all these immigrants. As soon as you got into this guy's Uber. And it's like, whoa, bro, what are these illegals doing at the airport? What are you talking about? What's happening right now? Okay, you want to scapegoat someone for all your fucking problems in your life, in your sad or miserable life? Like, they're not at the airport. oh because of course in your like just your Mike way, like your Mike and us, you instead of just like being like, shut up, dude, you're you're full of shit. You just like start diving in like, what's up? Like you're like asking him questions about his life and he's like pouring his soul out to you. I love that part of the story where you're like doing a therapy session with this guy. Yeah. Well, here's what I was feeling, Doug. I was talking to you a little bit earlier about how I'm doing a damp January. uh You know, where I haven't been, haven't drink at home and I I limit the times I go out. And so if I get invited out and whatever I'll drink. Well, that was one of the times on that flight getting upgraded, I was gonna drink. Yeah. Come on that too, Doug. I'm like on a roll with like meditation and shit. like I've been meditating every day. I've been just feeling really good. good. And maybe it's because of the, you know, going through the shit I went through the last few months and be on the other end of it. It just feels so freeing. So I'm there. I'm just in like, despite all the shit going on in the country, I'm coming off that plane feeling pretty good. I meditated. I had plenty of wine. And so I wasn't going let this guy fuck up my vibe. Yeah, dude, you're like floating. You're like tiptoeing across the clouds, right? I was about to go see Doug and make music. Doug was preparing the Airbnb for me. You already went, did the grocery shopping, which is the worst fucking part. eh of love that is, right? You did it for me one time and I was, yeah. And uh so I just was like, let me just ask this guy questions. So I just was curious about his racism and his divorce and his, and his hatred of women. And, and, and I just was telling him to hang in there, buddy. This is like, look, man, I know that there's a lot of undocumented immigrants and women are giving you the blues, but just keep going. You're going to make it. Like everything's going to be all right. I love that. That's what that's the message he got from some wine drunk, uh, LA guy that got off the plane at 10 or eight o'clock at night or whatever it was. You know what mean? some liberal elite coming from the corrupt media industry. oh But you know, Doug, did feel that night I was kind of like, maybe I should just let it told him to pull the fuck over and I'll take something else. No, dude, I'm so glad. I'm so glad that you wrote with that guy. Because I think that you probably like, I think you probably gave him a release valve from his echo chamber. Don't you think? just by being kind to him and just like asking him questions and kind of like the most gently pushing back and not just being like, yeah, man, we're all the same in this together. Like, and you're just like, no. So what's happening in your life? I think that that's probably. Not a thing that happens to that guy very much. I loved it. Well, I think, you know, I know how to hold a good space and I was in a good enough mood where I was just like, fuck, I'll hold space for you. Vomit into this bucket and you know, purge and hopefully you felt listened to and heard. And then maybe you'll, maybe your heart grew a size at the end of it, you know? ah But I walk in that Airbnb, Doug. and you are already in it, which I was hoping you would be. deep. was deep in it when you got there. I was like, I'm sorry, Mike. I'm already gone. You'd already done the heavy lifting and clearing the darkest energies of a space. And by the way, the Airbnb you picked was just fucking, I just, it was the star of the weekend for me. I mean, seriously, best, best Airbnb I've ever stayed at. you're all out there looking for a good time, just find the, just find the Bluffdale Airbnb that has a greenhouse and it's amazing. You're going to like, you're going to shit bricks. It's got it, bro. We haven't even talked about how it's got like a haunted forest and, an enchanted fucking river and like a little mystic kind of quest that you can go on. Like we went on a quest literally. as we, you know, every, we always do the first night as like a ritual. do it together. And, um, so Doug, you'd already like cleared the space. I walk in there and I'm just feeling the Palo Santo, the energy and you're playing music and. Fuck, Doug. We're sounding good. We do. Yeah, we are sounding good. I feel like. I feel like the. I feel like if we lived closer together, could, we could improve faster. We've got to go at our, we've got to go at our own pace. You know what mean? And I think it's interesting way to like, to do it. Like you've been doing you and I've been doing me like in your song. Yeah. And so we've been doing some way, but we've both been deepening into like almost different things too with our music. But like, I don't know. It's maybe, maybe that's been good for a bit because it feels like an unfolding. starting to unfold. It's starting to come together, unwind. Remember we talked about like, it's like an unwinding. uh Fox was talking about that. How body work is like uh unclenching and like allowing for the tightness and the tensing up that has happened over the course of your entire life. You're just slowly relaxing, allowing for it to unwind. And it feels like we're doing that a little bit, right? Yeah. We wrote a song, we had both, like you had sent the sort of like bones of this, like the foundation of this song, you had sent it to me and I had been m farting around with it and you had been farting around with it. I don't think there's any way that you and I could have expected what happened when we came together with that song, right? There's no chance, there's no chance. it was just, I sent you, what I sent you a while ago was just kind of like the melody and a feeling, right? I'm like, Doug, here's the melody, here's the feeling. It's just like a new lease on life. you know, what I was, I guess what I've just been talking about with going through shit the last three months, and then, which, By the way, I think I'm okay just to say it now that we're through it. um So my ex-wife um had been diagnosed with colon cancer. And for a minute there, we thought it had spread, know, some tests were inconclusive. It's like a day-to-day thing. then, but it turns out it was stage one. So then they cut it out and she's recovering, but like it's, it was a, intense three month process and I just feel so grateful to have, know, only that it was only three months because it, man, it was hellish and I can just, and, that's so short in the, you know, for a cancer scare, for a cancer, for cancer, for cancer, and that wasn't cancer scare for diagnosed cancer, three months. It's like the best possible thing we could have wished for. And it's really, and it was just a really tricky three months going through that and then navigating it separated, which was hard as fuck too. And so anyway, I sent you this melody and that was like, Doug, this is just like a feeling. And then you resonated with us so much. could not be more excited when you're like, Mike, I cannot stop playing this. Yeah, man, it just touched me deep. Something about it familiar and old and part of like, it felt like tribal, like community, like it felt like part of our whole thing, right? And so it was like just trying to remember the words to a song we already knew is what it came down to for me. To the point where even like, before we got together, I'd be sort of. strumming along and trying to figure out where the song was going. And my kids were like, is that the song where you sing like in Spanish or you sing about the stars and stuff like that? And I'm like, yes, it is. Like my kids are recognizing like, so this song is like this song is just so like tapped in that my kids are recognizing it. And then we didn't have anything. We didn't we didn't really have anything other than like you, you know, we had some lines that we liked and we had the melody. But then we got together and dude, it just Maybe we had a stu-go, right? It just came together. it was cool, Doug. was because I was going back and forth because I was like, man, I love this song so much, but it's one where I also love the way Doug sings it. And so we were kind of going back and forth with that. And then we did this thing where we just traded verses and holy shit. That's the way to do it. Why haven't we been doing that more often, man? That's like that like takes away my biggest fear, which is like keeping up with the song. Like when I got when I can take a break and have Mike sing part of the song, it's like, hell yeah, man. Let me just keep playing this guitar. And our voices harmonize together and yet they're different, they're kind of different registers. And so it just was like, I got chills the first time we had the idea in the truck. And then when we got back to the Airbnb, we did it for the first time and I just like goosebumps and like a little chill just like ran up my spine. I was like, fuck yes. Same dude. A little side note, like a fast forward to the future. uh Yesterday I was doing a uh session with Tracy, uh our shared therapist Tracy. And I was telling her like, man, Mike and I just had this great weekend. And I feel like musically we're kind of like starting to mesh and kind of braid together like our different sounds. they're starting to sound like one thing instead of like. Now do a Doug song. Now do a Mike song. Now do a Doug song. It's like braiding together to be this like one thing. And she kind of has this shitting grin on her face and she goes, I may have heard a song from your weekend. And I'm like, Oh, I'm like, shit. And she's so she told me like, I don't know what the name of it is, but here's what I've been calling it. And I was like, I know exactly the song. And Mike is the only time ever that like someone was like, yeah, I I've heard. your song without you knowing about it that I didn't feel embarrassed. I was like, yeah, you're goddamn right. I'm glad you heard that song. You know what mean? I was like, hell yeah, Tracy. Like, I hope you enjoy it. And she was gushing about it. Like she was like, yeah, you guys sound great. Dude, I'm so pumped, Mike. You know what? Let's just make this whole episode us talking about our new song. Cause yes, uh she called it a anthem. uh It sounds like an anthem to the onama. And I was like, I was like, fuck yes. That's totally what it's like the feeling of it. um And you know, just that, and I loved it. Like I loved working the lyrics with you, you know, and we don't get to do that very often or like we try to with each other but sometimes I think like sometimes with your songs like nothing comes through where I try to but then I worry about I don't know but then the lyrics you come up with I just love so much that like Well, there's that, but there's also this thing of like, are really careful about stepping on each other's toes when each other's writing a song. And we've told each other multiple times, like, hey, no, no sacred cows. And here's what I'm hearing and here's what I like, but like, please tear it apart and add some lyrics. But we've never really actually done it. But with this song, we were just like, I'm going to sing this part and you sing this part. then doesn't this sound good? And we just like... Like I'm telling you, Mike, really like nobody can see my fingers, but it was like we just did that. You know what I mean? We just like came to like we became one. It was really cool. Which is interesting, Doug, because what are we mirroring to each other there? Because usually you're like, okay, you treat other people how you want to be treated in a way. um But I don't feel that way. You know what I mean? I feel like don't want to step on Doug's toes with this song, but I don't feel that way when you throw me ideas or throw me new verses or a different melody with it, or even tell me, this one's too long or this one, you know, I don't. same, but that's how we've both been. I mean, we've both stated that, but we haven't really like put it into action until this this recent one, you know. So there's something in there. And maybe it's just and maybe it's just learning a little bit more how to collaborate or maybe it's just like. Surfing the same waves, because, you know, there have been experiences where like you've taken songs and made them better. Like I think about like the. I mean. The Come Come You Saints song, we keep calling it Come Come You Saints. There's already a song called Come Come You Saints. Come Rest, Come Rest You Saints probably. Like that, you've been a champion of that. Think about like the grief, the grief song, Ride the Waves. um I prefer that song. That song's better when you play and sing it. Do you know what I mean? So we've had, we've been like sneaking up on it a little bit. But this song, this one that we wrote over the weekend was the first time that we've actually just like been like, you know what, we're overlapping and we're just doing it. We're going for it. Well, in a way that when it started, cause we've done it before when like when we were in uh the Tetons, we actually had a few songs that we wrote together kind of up there, but it also came, the spark came at the same time. Exactly. We were experiencing it together. yeah, this is the first time where it's like, oh, the initial spark came and I sent it over to you. One of us got the initial spark and yeah, which it was fun, man. And it was fun to do in person. I don't know if it would have happened unless we had had that weekend in person fully. Truly, it had to be the way it happened. I think that whole weekend probably was just so that we could hear that song. It's my favorite song. I listen to it all the time. Try Again, it's called Try Again, everybody. I don't know if that's what we're calling it, but that's what I've been calling it. Tracy calls it the anthem to the anima, but who knows? And we sing, can we try to live again? Can we try to love again? And we repeat it. Can we try to live again? Can we try to love again? Because that's a good line. Well, okay. So this is, this actually gets to the meat of what I kind of want to talk about. I, because that song has been like helping me with life lately. Do you know what I mean? Cause the whole message is like, the whole message is can we, can we try to live again? Like, can we just, because not to sound too high or trippy or, know, whatever, but sometimes I get thinking like, what the hell is light? Like, what are we doing? Like what is, what's the purpose of what's happening? You know, because, because it's like, who's laying stake to my time and who am I trying to please and how am I trying to hustle and get some money and how am I trying to hustle and get some like peace of mind and be, make sure I'm there for my kids and make sure I'm at all of everybody's activities and making sure I'm showing up for people in my life. Like when you, when you take stock of that, you're just like, what the fuck? is all this, you know? And so the thing I love about that song is it does ground me and it brings me back into like, it brings me back to just centralized with with just me wandering about on the planet and being like, okay, yeah, hold on a second. I think that I can simplify and just live my life. It's called life. I might as well live it. You know, I'm fucking love it, dude. Well, and I mean, like we're talking about, leading up to that weekend and it's continued, we're going through a really heavy time in the country right now. uh Probably in a different way. I mean, there's been like 9-11, there was the beginning of COVID. Those were both really dark. This just feels like a different type of dark. It feels a different kind of dark because it's like it's like on display that it's a that it's a team sport like it's it's that it's it's it's on display that there's just lying going on. Look, look, I again, everybody who listens to this podcast knows that I am no friend of Donald Trump and I'm not a supporter of that whole thing. And I also have most of the people that I hang out with are Trump people. But. You can't deny that what happened was people that were protesting got shot by federal agents and instantly Trump and his administration classified those people as domestic terrorists and that they deserve to get shot. so everybody, no matter where they fall in political aisle, had to be forced to be like, wait a minute. I don't think people deserve to be shot and killed by federal agents. Like, don't think anybody thinks, I don't think anybody laughs at that shit and is like, people, someone deserves to be shot and killed. Like it's, it's, it's, it's, I don't want to, I don't even want to think about people that are like, yeah, I'm glad those people got shot. mean, I would be horrified if when Charlie Kirk was assassinated, people were like cheering and like, yeah, I'm glad Charlie Kirk got it. No one did that. everyone came out and like, there's no room for political violence in this world. This is unacceptable. This is not okay. Like blah, blah. That's what happened in the world. If you think anything, if someone thinks something else happened, you're, you're, you're, you're listening to people who are trying to get you riled up and trying to sell you something. People were horrified by the Charlie Kirk assassination. It's not acceptable. It's not okay. And then what happened with this thing on the others in Minneapolis, it's like, oh shit, no one deserves that. Even a lesbian who divorced her husband and was from Colorado, even those crimes don't deserve being shot and killed by a federal agent. God, it's fucking horrifying, I hate fucking talking. It is. um it's one of those things, we've joked about this before Doug, where I'm like, we talk about, we can only experience reality through our particular lens. That's the only way I can do it. It's always gonna be filtered through my lens. And the last couple of weeks, I'm like, is my lens so strong? And other people's lens so strong that then when they see a video, of uh a man being dragged and murdered in the street holding a cell phone. Do they actually see him brandishing a gun? Are our realities that different? Like, yeah. you're a 49ers fan, I'm a Seahawks fan, and we both watch the same play and you say that was holding and I say that was not holding. That's one thing. But to see... the NFL, like there, but there, and like the Seahawks catch in the, uh that could be on either way. The Bills, the game before that, the Bills and the Broncos, you know, it's, there's different interpretations, but that's like a razor's edge, you know? Right, yeah dude. It's so strange. But is our reality so different that aren't people actually seeing him brandishing a weapon? No, nobody thought that he brandished a weapon. it makes me, it makes, you know, I was kind of like, what the fuck? um And yeah, so it's been scary. so anyway, yeah. not going to, we didn't mean to go into this whole thing. but, but, but it has been scary and it's been a good thing to be like, can we try to live again? Right? Cause it feels like we've just been like surviving or, or treading water or, or, or just like trudging along until death. And it's like, the song is, is, is demanding me try to live again. I love it, dude. um Doug, the other song that's speaking to me, ah that's first time I've heard you live do Break On Free. That's a good song. Dude, we had like six songs that we haven't played with each other. So we got some new shit coming out. But yeah, dude, Break Arm Free is a good one, Well, I love it because it's one you and your, you were writing about your wife or you and your wife, your wife's actually helping you on it. Um, am I okay to say that? Um, and just that feeling of, um, that depth of love that grows over 20 plus years and the roots, you know, um, we've been growing apart, but our roots run deep. Yeah, man. And. What that song, that's break on free. That's the feeling I've been feeling. And I talked about the shit of the last three months and, um, and it's been, was really tricky navigating it together. And I'm going to just tell my side of part of that with, just like, it's hard because you want to be there for her in all the ways. And if we were married, you kind of could. And this was like, I'm being there for her in a lot of ways. Um, But what it made me realize is how beautiful it was to be able to navigate that separated too. And like, we've been growing apart, but our roots run deep. and just showing that like, okay, you might be living, you know, a few towns over, but there's still uh roots between us that are deeper than whether we're romantic, whether we're sleeping together, where we're, know, ah we can still. be there for each other in the hard times, we can still co-parent and we can still, I don't know, the depth of love. so, and then that whole break on free, for me it was break on free of the grief that we've been feeling, like... Yeah, there's still life to live. Break on free. We're still young. and, and that's the beauty. Like I, what I love about that is that that, that whole song, think can be into, mean, people, people have, a lot of people have heard that and have interpreted it in different ways. It's, it's touched you. It's touched another, um, some people that I know. And, you know, my wife and I were, we're together, like we're, we're in it. And to us, it means like, can we kind of break free from these like, the ruts and the expectations and the, uh you know, defining what it means to have, to live happily ever after and defining what it means to like. to have that mutual respect and deep love for each other. It's not always like passionate, uh amor. It's not always passionate, you know. like crazy about each other, Twitter pated, like you go through ebbs and flows and you go up and down. But what we've found is that expecting it to be perfect sunshine and lollipops all the time is something that's been sold to us from, you know, from whoever, you know, romantic comedies and the church and I mean, just, just people talking about love stories in general. And for us, the real love story goes way, way deeper than that of going through a lot of stuff together and like, whatever that means. And also whatever the power of that bond means and how it's defined, it looks different for everybody. You know what I mean? And everyone can define it a little bit differently. It's just been pretty beautiful. No, I love it and it's been helping me. dude, I'm glad. Well, and then we... I don't know. We were playing music with the right people. You know what I mean? Like it was, it just, oh, here's the thing I just wanted out of the blue. Cause we've talked about the Tetons experience and we had a whole episode where we talked about, you know, our trip up in the Tetons and kind of the experience up there. We were, so we were sharing with the group. the concept of mystery secrets, which I think you coined. I think that's thing that you invented, right? Well yeah, was like, I think it's my mystery secret. Did I say it did you say it? I said it. Okay, it's like my mystery secret. yeah, you said it in the T-tones and it's like, what a perfect phrase, right? And so we were kind of explaining to some people like the concept of having a mystery secret. like a secret about yourself. That's a mystery to even you. Like there's something about you that you just don't quite know, you know? But you know you're hiding it from yourself. And you've been trying to guess at it, but every guess has been kind of wrong. But like, maybe you're getting a little bit warmer, but then sometimes you feel like you're getting colder. Right. It wouldn't be a mystery secret if that's not how it was. Right. And so I was so I was so touched because one of the people that was listening in was like, Hey, Doug, maybe maybe I know your mystery secret. I was like, I would love somebody to tell me what my mystery secret is. Like it would my whole life would be complete if somebody could tell me what because it's a mystery secret. Right. You spend your whole life trying to solve it. And she was like, Have you ever thought that maybe your mystery secret is that you're gay? And I was like, holy shit. I feel like that's a veiled, very, very deep compliment to me. Because it was coming from someone who maybe doesn't fully trust some of the men in her life, or maybe she said some like all of us who just had interesting experiences. I think that she's seasoned me like a safe male presence. And that's why she's maybe said that. Do know what I mean? And it was like, it fucking lit me up, dude. It lit me up when she asked me that question. I had to come clean to her and say that that's not my mystery secret, you know, unfortunately. Well, that's exactly how the mystery secret came up because we were talking about that. um And because I've wondered that with me, well, not gay, but bi or whatever. um And then I'm like, but it's not quite that because I haven't found it yet because I'd be on the pride parade, like that'd be front and center. be like on top of the thing and like, in like hot pants, right? And waving the flag. So it's somewhere, it's something going on, but I haven't figured it out yet. uh Yeah, dude, I don't know what, I don't know what my miss, I don't think, I don't even think my mystery secret has to do with like sexuality, to be honest with you. Cause I, I, I've, I've, I've kind of like tried to even like say to myself, like, I not given, am I not giving like attention to, or like, is there a part of me that is attracted and you know, I've just turned up, you know, maybe, maybe later in life, something will come through, but like, That's just not it for me. And so I'll keep trying to solve my mystery secret. But I don't think mine's up has to do with my sexuality. I don't think it's a sex thing for me. It's something. I don't know what mine is. sex things are also just probably symbolic for other things too. You know? yeah, for sure. I wasn't trying to like make it all about like there's this one way or there's one thing. Um, I'm trying to think what else we can talk about from the weekend around that. Cause they're just the company because it was such, it was just. mean, we can't talk about like, we always promise not to name names or whatever, but like, we just, we were, you know, it was whoever we can get to hang out with. was, was a good, it was, it was a good time. it was, know, what my mystery, my mystery secret might be that I'm like a, I'm a control freak, like party host that just fucking is stressed out the whole time people are in my space. Maybe that's my mystery. Well, you know that about you, But you have a good time, at least you, uh I feel like you're having a good time, but there's always like an undercurrent of like... No, but it always feels like you're having a good time. I don't feel it. That's what I'm saying. You hold it if you're, you know. But you can tell I'm also like, all right, people just like clean up after yourself a little bit and please don't do this and please don't do that and please don't break that. Please, you know, I could. it when you express it. Yeah. Yeah, you know. I've gotten better about it. I've gotten better at expressing it too. And just telling people like, listen, this is somebody else's house. Let's try to treat it with like care and we'll start to be good guests. You know, that kind of thing. I would, I hope I w if I ever was a person who rented out an Airbnb, I would want me to rent my Airbnb. That's how I put it like that, you know, um Of course, You walk away, that space is blessed. It's been taken care of. You know there's been someone walking around cleaning all the stuff up, making sure no one's breaking it. No matter what, you've always got an eye on something. No matter how high you are. You could be in a K-hole being like, Check it. Is that back door locked? could you lock that door please? I'm like KOing and I'm like can you lock that back door please? Just looping. That's you on a whip it is just like you like just saying the same thing over and over and over again. me on a whippet is just like the same door keeps like kind of being open just a crack or there's like a fucking can of half drink beer laying around somewhere and I'm just like, could you could you just grab your beer please? It's all an unwinding, Doug. Just breathe. That was the other cool thing you said last weekend was just can we remind each other how to breathe, when to breathe, to breathe. Just remind me to breathe, right? I really think that that's a thing. I mean, even when we were singing, like that's, I mean, that's how it came about is because I was just like, I just need to relax. If I relax, can sing with my full, I can sing my, you know, can really, I can really like, I can really fill the space with my voice I've learned, you know? Like I can sing with a full voice, but not if I'm like strained and holding it tight. I get really weird. And so. I'm still trying to learn how to sing, but that's what I said to you is like, Hey, can you just, can you just remind me? got to breathe. You know, it is like, take it, take a couple of breaths. But I think that's a good reminder just in life. I'll make it a little serious here because it's like, you know, we talked about cancer. We've talked about like politics and not just politics, like, I mean, this is beyond, this isn't politics. Politics is like, should we increase the capital gains tax? Should we? should tax money be spent? How should revenue be spent? Right? That's what the politics is. Should we pass a new law that, you know, if you drive over 90, you know, that's like, now we're getting into like laws, sending laws, right? Um, governing. This is beyond that, but, I don't know, just reminder to breathe, to relax. I mean, I talked about how I've been getting on this like meditation just I've just been loving it. It's just been like a new dimension that I haven't done a lot of and just breathing. I just want to say it's been good. And so I like that. I guess that's my long way saying, I agree. Let's breathe. You know? What? What meditation have you been doing? Because I, dude, you were locked in. That one morning I came in, uh you were in the ceremonial space meditating and I came in and I just like, noodled around with a couple of instruments. And you, for solid 30 minutes, you were not aware of my presence. Like you didn't even know I was in there. So what have you been into? I've been doing a, it's mostly gratitude. I look up gratitude meditations and some are better than other. I like the variety, so I always switch it up, but I just go to YouTube, look up gratitude meditations. And I, I just find that like, you know, gratitude is the attitude, you know, it's like, no, but I really feel like that's kind of like if when you feel gratitude, you feel present. You're like, I'm here. And I love what I'm like, I'm grateful to be in this space and to be with people I love. And I find that it's like, it's not with these gratitude meditations, it's not a forced gratitude. Like I remember it from Mormonism because you're relaxing. You get there, you take breaths, you relax your body. And then some mornings, like I don't feel grateful. I feel panicked or I feel like, you know, but then I do the meditation and you just let in a little bit, what can you be grateful for? I am grateful that I'm alive. You you kind of just like, and then you tune into the sensation and then you let the sensation grow. And there's been mornings where I've woke up with a lot of anxiety and the end of one of these gratitude meditations, I'm like, fuck yes, let's go live today. Let me go. I'm excited to go sit in an office and like see people in the office, work a little bit, you know. Dude, I love that so much. Yeah, man, it's like always comes back. I feel like I personally threw a lot of the, like I threw the baby out with the bath water, you know, from my religious upbringing and all that kind of stuff. But then I always come back to like, you know, maybe I should just count my many blessings, name them one by one, you know, maybe life is worth living. Maybe it is pretty fucking cool to be here and to be. to be able to interact with the people I love and to be able to people and to be able to move about the fucking cabin. You're now free to move about the country, man. I love. Yeah, I guess life's OK. I we were both dealing with like, I was dealing with some weird work stress and you were dealing with obviously the cancer thing. it kind of came together for us the way it always does. One thing I wanted to like, Just like maybe I'm making like a hard turn here, but one of the nights that we were there for this weekend, originally the reason I was going to go down was for the divine assembly thing, right? So first of all, I think we need to talk about walking through the Joseph Smith Memorial building. that was a trap wasn't it? um Sorry, I'm like... That was a real trick. Go ahead. I'm just trying to sit up and I was sitting on cords, but I just wanted to kind of sit up. oh it was, that's the first time I've walked in any church building in a long time, but let alone like this Joseph Smith Memorial building, just it's a different, you're there in downtown Salt Lake City. They've got some interesting, some pretty cool fucking dope artwork on the wall. artwork, bro. Yeah, yeah, I agree. And it just felt like another life, another time, like another, like I felt like I was walking through a time capsule. You know, I'm just gonna stop you right there. Speaking of a time capsule and speaking of the artwork, you know the like Book of Mormon, like the old Book of Mormon, like Nephite artwork that that guy did? Uh huh. Yeah. That was actually in the book Mormon. that shit is jarring, dude. Like I haven't seen, I haven't looked at that stuff for a while, but like you see that stuff and it is like, it like shakes you to your bones. You're like, how muscular, like how, what's going on with this guy? Like, what is he thinking about? Like the, the Lamanites and Nephites are just chiseled out of granite. They're, they're just like these buff, like, like big burly men with like bodybuilder physiques and like just thick, oh God. It's just like, all right, bud, settle down. This was a, this was a little band of Jews that sailed across the oh fucking Atlantic ocean. You know, I don't know how big and strong. Whoever, yeah. ah sorry. just, that was just a little side note because you, we were talking about walking through the Joseph. So we, so the point is we went to downtown Salt Lake to go to the divine assembly. Um, uh, they were doing an update about the temple, the open air temple that they're building out on the property, the Dell, uh, shout out to Steve and Sarah and the work that they're doing and the architect that was really cool. Meaning that, you know, doing all that kind of stuff, but Mike, that the experience that we had was we, parked in the Joseph Smith Memorial building and then walked all the way to the thing. I, cause cause I can't tell fucking directions. And we were dressed like we were going to trip. Like we were, we were dressed in comfortable, like sweats. Like that's what we were dressed up in. Right. We had no idea that it was the museum of modern art or whatever. And that people were going to be like in tuxedo. Like people were dressed to the ninth. So we come bumbling in like a couple of dipshits. Like we go in there and I immediately like, dude, Mike, I'm telling you right now instantly I was like, oh shit, are, we are not, we are not in the right frame of mind for this event. Like it was like swanky and like cool people doing cool shit. You know what I mean? Walk in and you know, it's just felt like I mean they have that guy drumming where he sat there for a little bit that he's doing like the hand drum and that was cool. Yeah. in, we walked into the theater or whatever and Emmer's like, so can anyone just sit here and listen to you play the handpan or is anything going on here? And also is that the steepest theater since like the times of Shakespeare? Dude, right? got vertigo walking into that thing. was like, I don't know my ass from a hole in the ground. I was topsy turvy when we walked in there. We were also like on a couple of things. was like, okay. So we instantly were like, okay, we got to say what's up to some people and kind of look around and see the development and see the plan for the open air temple. By the way, that thing is cool. Those mushroom bricks are. Yeah. Way cool. Like, God, people are doing cool shit, Yeah, by the way, go check out what the Divine Assembly is doing and... um Yeah, you gotta check out what the Divine Assembly is doing with these open-air temple mushroom bricks. They're like lightweight and like almost like porous, but like, I don't know, it's very cool. We're just like the weird like cousins of the whole community. Aren't we, you and me? We're just like, like everybody kind of knows us, but they're like, oh, those guys, I don't know. Yeah. even the weird, maybe we're with the word uncles now or uncle. uh I know we might be on status at this point, huh? eh we're just like, we're going to go and like, you guys keep doing all of your fun and cool things. We're going to go like melt a little bit and just plays music. You know what mean? well, there's something else I say, but no, that was a time, but I just want to give a shout out to what Steven Searer doing. That's pretty cool. Yeah, very cool stuff. then they got some, there's more stuff going on this weekend, I think. yeah, this psychedelics in the beehive this is weekend. Yeah. oh would go, but I'm going to Hawaii instead. Sorry, not sorry. Yeah, dude, I always get jealous around you this time of year. You know, yeah, poor dog. I can feel some gratitude there for what you're talking about, you know. You can feel gratitude in Hawaii. That's where you start those meditations. You don't need a meditation when you're out in Hawaii, like that. It's so funny, I was telling my wife, I was like, you know, I've just been so like intense and stressed and on high alert. It'll be really nice to just sort of like re-center and ground myself and like get reconnected, you know, in Hawaii. And then we started laughing and I just was like, is there anything that is like white privilege, upper middle class? Okay, yeah, everyone would love to just go relax in Hawaii. Doug, you fucking moron. Yeah, but can we just talk about this? We have a bit more time, right? Because I was thinking about remembering to breathe. And the other thing I've been doing the last couple of weeks is I've been reflecting on and I've been struggling with just how much should I be in the know right now, nowadays? Like how informed should I be? I don't want to be uninformed. At the same time, I feel like I don't know if the human nervous system was meant for the barrage of bad news we get all the time. Good fucking point, Mike. Good point. evolved, we evolved in these tight for 99, 95, 99, what a percent of like our evolution. We were in communities the size of like a ward. Picture your ward. That was the award was the only thing you ever knew your whole life. Yeah. 200, 300 people maybe. Um, and in that community, sometimes you'd have tragedy. Sometimes, you know, people got hunting and not come back or people would die or. And the community would rally around and you'd have grief rituals. You would like chant it out. People would be held in this tight community through their grief. And then in between there would be festivals and celebrations and unions and births, um, death and life. Like they were, it was symbiotic. And then as we started growing, it's like, well, first you would just, and then you, now you'd get a newspaper that like tells you of, uh, what's happening on the other side of the country. And so once a day you would get a newspaper and you'd kind of read the headlines and then, you know, television, radio, like, okay, now a couple of times a day we're getting the news and then the 24 hour news cycle comes and that hasn't been a help to anybody. And then now you add social media to it and it's like, How, you know, my mom used to say this thing about like, I'm only ever as happy as my least happy child. And she has seven children. And you know what that means. I mean, even with three children. always juggling, yeah, exactly. And she's never happy. so, like, I really struggle with the fact that, okay, if I am only, like, I care about humanity and I want to be informed and I want to mourn with those who mourn and I want to rally around and march for Minnesota. And then also, but if I'm only as happy as a Gazan refugee or a parent whose child just got shot up in school, because there's always going to be one these days. then are we just all, am I just always never going to be happy? Bingo. So, no, go ahead, please. No, all I was gonna say is like, I don't know, I'm in that tension right now and I don't know how to resolve. Well, it's kind of funny, right? Because like for the first time in history, like human people by, by nature are kind of like migratory birds, know, like we, we kind of move around and we kind of like to, we kind of like to like, you know, we're built for, we're built for comfort, dude. We're, we're, we're meant to sort of like wander a little bit, you know? And like, it used to be there was some sort of like disruption where you should be like, okay, well, All right, I'm going to drop everything and go fight in the Pacific theater in the war or, I'm going to like close up my raggedy old shack and shop and I'm going to go start a new life in the new world. I'm just going to like become a new person, you You just turn around and be like, well, this ain't working for me. uh I'm going to go try a different thing, right? That's been humanity up till now. And now it's like, I turned 45 and I'm like, shit, I gotta do it again. I gotta do another 45 years probably, right? It's like fucking, it's like you're surfing time. And so my question is, can we try to live again? I'm coming to life, man. I'm trying to live again, dude. I'm like, no, I'm not gonna just group. become a grownup and then become 45 and be like, okay, well hit reset and just keep doing the exact same thing and double that, twice that please. So like, fucking no way Jose, like I'm staring at it. all this to announce, I'm officially learning Spanish. So anybody out there who wants to like help me learn how to speak Spanish, I'm dedicated. I've been doing my lessons. I've been immersing myself in Espanol. Uh, even today I, uh, was at the, I go to this Mexican restaurant and the people that are, are really friendly with me and they know that I'm trying to learn Spanish. So they just like barrage, but they just like pepper me with like Spanish. And I'm just like, I'm just like, see, thank you. You know, I'm just like giving them a thumbs up and saying, see, muchas gracias. See senior, like, that's all I'm saying. But I'm just like listening to the, like the rhythm and vibration of their language. I just love it so much. Anyway, what I'm trying to say, Mike, is let's live again. Let's live again. you know what else I'm saying? What I want to say about the Spanish thing too, that I'm loving about you speak Spanish. uh I love it. And when you were mumbling Spanish with uh it, like inspired me to write in Portuguese, which I'd never done in any of the songs. And um Doug, what I want though, I want you to finalize the Spanish uh verse of that song. I it's good, Yeah, so then I think what would be fun is that like sometimes I sing a Portuguese version, sometimes you sing a Spanish version. It's like, you know, depending on who's singing what when, you know, and. world coming together now dude we're so we're so high on this song this song is like like it's coming it's bringing the world together bro Well, because what I noticed is when you sent me, because you recorded a version of it and sent it to me yesterday, or you know, this morning you recorded it and you sent it me, uh was that when you got to the Portuguese part, I'm like, I want Doug to not try to admit, I want Doug to speak in Spanish on this part. And so we need to have a Spanish verse. to get through those Portuguese. Listen, I was just trying to make a scratch track of it. Me trying to get through those Portuguese words. I didn't have it, man. I didn't have the rhythm of it. I didn't have the sound of it. I'm just like, I'm faking it. I was like George Costanza, like pretending I know how to speak Portuguese. You know what I mean? I was just like faking it. Yeah, so I want the advanced to Spanish version of that. Send it over.