Vices and What Makes You You (#226)

Mike and Doug explore what it actually means to be yourself in a world constantly offering scripts. What begins as a conversation about shrinking, privilege, and cultural pressure turns into something more personal: what makes you the most you? The episode wrestles with the tension between self-awareness and self-erasure, humility and hiding, growth and authenticity. Instead of performing strength or apologizing for existing, the invitation becomes simpler and harder: lean into what is uniquely yours. Your voice. Your body. Your weirdness. Your fire. Honest, reflective, and at times provocative, this conversation circles one idea—be fully yourself. Everyone else is already taken.

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Transcript

1:45

you I your name, my angel shooting star my memory of the for you What's up, dude? uh Keep playing, bro. Sounds really good. I've been loving that song so much lately. Same, same. Samezies. Dude, you did some pickleball action. Yeah, dude. I'm like legit. I've got like a duper rating and everything. I don't know what that was a duper rating. That's like, is like a handicap. Yeah. And they call it a duper rating. D-U-P-R, I don't know what it stands for. That's stupid. m so silly, bro. It's so fucking silly. but I'm sure people can relate. By the way, I hit record. um I figure we could just chop, I figure we can just drop people in when we wanna drop them in. I've got no problem with... I mean, hopefully you were recording that you just playing some music and we can just drop people in that way. That sounds really good. but I don't know if I was singing very good. My voice has been, just my voice is barely starting to come back. I still feel congestion. It's been weird. I don't know if I've been sick. I haven't felt sick, but my voice has just felt like tight and like, it was like a mild like pain in like my, in my ears. So I think I've got something like a upper respiratory something, but it's like not, I'm not very sick. I'm just, you know. Dude, saying I have something like an upper respiratory something is more medical information than I've ever had in my brain. So I'm going along with you like, yeah, sounds right, Mike. Thank you. It sounds like an upper respiratory something. It could be you're having some upper respiratory problems, but I don't know. That's not the tube or the circle, so. I am having like, hold on one sec. Okay, Clear your nose out. well, I've just been kind of when I, I don't, I don't know if this is like an age. I literally don't know if this is my age or because I'm whatever, but I've noticed lately when I get like two hours of, of, know, intense, I guess workout, not intense workout. I'm going to read, I'm going to, want to take back what I just said. Two hours pickle ball. got a little sweaty and I noticed that when I get a little sweaty these days, I get like a little bit of like. Like I get when my nose starts running, like I'm an old man. Like, you know how old men always have like this permanent like runny nose is gross. Yeah. Dude, getting old is the deal, isn't it? It's weird, it's like... It's funny. I was pretty energetic. I was talking to my wife. I've been pretty energetic lately. I mean, I've been all over hell and back the last couple of weeks, as far as I've been a globetrotter. But my energy is, I don't know what's going on. I've got it all. I've got all the energy in the world. No explanation. it's just you're through the, you haven't had, when was the last spell you had? Okay. kind of like dead on, Mike. I had a follow-up appointment this morning. was like, do we need to? There was some information, and there's some things that we could probably dig into. But I was just like, I don't want to do anything. feel that since November 3rd and 4th, that's the last time I had my little episode. I felt like a million bucks. And so that's November, December, January, and all of pretty much all February. So for four months, like you think about it for, for almost a year, I was like really like in the, like in the trenches, like, I couldn't move every, like pretty regularly every month. But now I'm, my point is I feel, I feel really good. And maybe it's like, maybe something, something's returning to me. Cause I was, I was a menace on the pickleball court tonight, a menace. So, uh, can we talk, can we talk pickleball for a second? dude, honestly, we, Mike, I'm so into pickleball lately that if this honestly, if this podcast morphs into the Doug and Mike talk about their seasonal sports, uh, you know, like golf, pickleball, I'm, I would be Jim dandy with that. Well, good, um I like, and I think it fits for Mormons on mushrooms because you, isn't it so funny? What is it with, it's so, I guess just trends just like take off in Mormonism, right? Like, I mean, I know people out here in LA who are pickleball people, right? um And, but they're kind of few and far between, but you know the people and they're like, and they are in it. And I have a couple of people at work. I was once on a dating app and this one woman, she hid everything. She called herself just a pickleball queen or something like that. And then I asked her one question about pickleball and I got 10 messages and I forgot to respond in like a couple of days and she like deleted me. She got no time. Hey listen, I'm she got no time for somebody who does not like it is not on it with the pickleball chat You know Mike, I think I I think it's a it's a it's a blessing curse type of situation like you're right. I think the all-in nature like the obsessive nature of of Mormons comes from not being able to express yourself in other ways. Do you know what mean? And, and nobody who I play pickleball with, I guess a few people that I play pickleball with are Mormon. So, but it's just like built into our, it's baked into our DNA. They're all, they'll hearken from, they, they come descended from Mormons. Do you know what I mean? And it's just like, there's something in our nature that's like, Wow, shit dude, this is armchair psychiatrist, but like there's something in our nature that's just like, I'm a dog with a bone. Like I'm just like really, really into it and go all in, you know? By the way, I'm not even all that, I'm not even all that all into it. The people that I play pickleball with are all into pickleball. Yeah, but I've only played it once and so like, but it seems like it's a, I don't know, sport. It's easy to pick up. It's not as taxing as tennis fully or what's the, what's the draw. I think that like the, yeah, I think pickleball is a lifetime sport because it's a, there's an equalizer element to it. Do you know what I mean? Um, you know, tennis is a good example. Tennis, someone's sending a, someone's sending a serve, you know, a hundred and something miles an hour, 130 miles an hour. You got to have a specific set of skills to get that serve. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Um, same with ping pong. You watch the Olympic, like you watch these ping pong cats, like, like they're the amount of spin and, if you watch Marty Supreme, you don't even have to watch the Olympics, just watch Marty Supreme. But pickleball because of the whiffle ball nature and because of the way the court is, it's almost like you're like pickleball is like you're standing on a ping pong table. And so people of like differing athletic and agility. sort of abilities can kind of play together and it's fun. mean, it's, there's obviously like high level pickleball going on out there somewhere in the world. But for, for me and my, as for me and my house, we follow the pickleball Lord and just play fun. Like we think or do, think or don't, you know, that kind of thing. I see him over there on your altar, the pickleball, Lord. Yeah, yeah, I like to have a pickleball altar, like a god of pickleball on my my all of my altars. Well, I hope you get your duper rating up and I hope it like advances you in the ranks in the. Or do you want to low low is a handicap like you want lower? Do you want high? OK. my duper. Yeah. You, you, yeah. So you want your handicap and golf to be low. You want your pickleball duper rating to be high. God, what the fuck are we talking? It's so funny. I, but I love, I do love it. I mean, you know, frankly, I, I kind of enjoy myself. It's a good way to sort of get my body moving. And like I said, I can, I can be jovial and and Bounder funny Doug, but I'm tonight like I you can also be a menace, know what I mean? Like no, I've been with competitive Doug. Like Doug is just one to win. Yeah, I can get a little juicy that way. um Hey, so Mike, I was thinking about this today, because today was my day off and I've just had the greatest day. It's been a while, you know? Because I've been just like really deep into the work thing. You've been Jetson. I've been jet setting, globetrotting and jet setting. That's who I am. I would like to just ask you some questions tonight. How do you feel about that? Yeah, let's do it. Yeah, this is, mean, I feel like I should have gotten them in advance, but I'm good. No, I don't want to give them to you oh in advance. um By the way, I had to go to Miami. I had to make an emergency trip to Miami. Which is a funny sentence to utter. That is. I've never been to Miami, by the way. Actually same like this was my first time to Miami I have been to the Miami airport before but this was my first time to Miami proper Miami is cool. And you know, I've been trying to learn Spanish. so like I was, dude, I was leaning in my Uber drivers, the bell hops, the dude checking me out at the hotel, the people that work. Like I spoke, I spoke broken Spanish everywhere I possibly could when I was in Hawaii or not Hawaii, when I was in Miami. Um, but. I did. I notice I put my name is Miguel on this recording. I didn't on review. I'm not Mike, I'm Miguel. It's like a weird purple. You can't really see it. Yeah, the way that that's... it is Miguel. Hola, Miguel. We just do the podcast in Espanol. ah Don't they install a biblioteca? El banco es cerrado. um What I'm trying to my point I'm leading up to something here Mike I want to ask you some questions Okay, but I'm telling a little bit of a story leading up to it. So I get to Miami. I'm there for a thing and You know every Again, dude business conferences, you know what I mean? business conference, I wrote song about it and it still sticks with me and I've Mr. Traveling Man. Keep going, actually, because I'm going to. selling your soul always part of the plan or does ROI keep you up at night? Those are good lines, right? You just nailed it. Thank you for knowing my lyrics, those mean something to me. And I experience that every time I go to a conference. But I've tried to push back against it and bring some, I guess, love and presence and humanity instead of just having the same old conversations with people about, where are you from? How big are your assets? maybe, how many? think it's just the same old bullshit. It's like a dick measuring contest. And instead, lately, I've just really been trying to bring my full self to these conferences. And it makes a difference. People are like, yeah, let's actually get down. Let's actually have some medium to deep talk. And it's been pretty cool. So point being, I sat down at this table. I was kind of like that teetering. you know, sailor Doug, who is sort of like kind of every step he takes, he's just like, not, he's like, like, I just didn't fall down 22 times in a row. Do know what I mean? Like, like, I'm not so much walking. I'm just not falling down as I sort of like ramble and, uh, you know, around the wobbly corkscrew or the, the drill bit, the wobbly drill bit. drill bit. That's what it is. Yeah. Yeah, so that's what I was doing. So I'm already, um you know, fully greased and totally tuned up and I arrive at this table and the guy who's running the conference has kind of been, he's like, hey, we want you over here, so come sit at our table. And so I sit at this table and everybody's in their outfits. You know what I mean? We're in Miami for God's sake. And everybody's in their outfits, their sport coat over a untucked button up, like light blue shirt. And they're like wearing some variation of slacks or khakis or chinos or something like that. Meanwhile, I'm in a, literally I'm in a t-shirt shorts and wearing my Birkenstocks. Do you know what I mean? So they're having their business, businessman conversations at this table and I sit down and you know me, like I, when I sit down at a table, I've arrived. I'm like, like I take up the table, you know? And so I just turned to the guy on my left and I'm like, all right guys, let's get down. Let's figure out what's going on here. I'm going to ask you, I want everybody to just go around the table. Tell me who are you? Like what makes you you? Who are you? And what's your biggest vice? And like, damn. dude, I had never asked that question before, dude. And by the way, Mike, it was one of the most beautiful experiences of my life because these motherfuckers answered it. And you know, some, you could tell some guys were like, well, you know, I, I care too much. I try too hard. I work, I'm workaholic. Okay, bud. You know, a couple of guys did that kind of thing, but some guys were like, you know, like that we got into some deep stuff. so me and that other nine people at these big ass tables at conferences. We kind of crafted a bond and then the next day at the conference, a couple of dudes came up to me and they were like, hey, I don't feel like I got a chance to really give you a full answer and I just wanted to give you a full answer. then people from the conference were like, I heard your table and I wanted to kind of talk to you about my answer, about who am I, what makes me tick and what's my biggest vice? And I was like, okay, yeah, please tell me. And so made some good... Like, connections with these people, you know? But I, it, ugh, all of that, all of this fucking preamble to bring me to the point of, Mike, we've done this podcast together for whatever amount of years it's been. I would love for you to answer the question, what makes you What is your life? What makes you Mike? What is the like deep parts of you that maybe, you know, people have picked up and they've come through while we've been doing the podcast, but could you voice it? Who is Mike? Yeah, this is a good question, Doug. You know, this is a good question for several reasons. know, listen back to a couple of our uh episodes. One that I listened back to really struck me because we were talking about mystery secret stuff, right? And we were talking about sexuality and. And then Doug, you said something that really. Hit me in a good way, like lit a fire in me. You were like, oh yeah, I don't think my mystery secret is about sexuality. I I know what I like. I like what I like and I know what I like. you voicing that like lit a fire in me where I I feel like my biggest struggle one of my biggest struggles probably my biggest one is that I absorbs so much, like I don't have confidence in, I don't have as much confidence in who, like, I know what I like, but I don't have as much confidence in, I question it. I question myself, I question my likes. I question, oh, but what if I was more open-minded? What if I was this? What if I was this? And I'm not talking about sexuality, I'm talking about all, mean, sexuality is a core part of me, everything. to be fair, Mike, in the episode, I know what you're talking about. In that episode, when I said that, you actually did clarify, well, that's a core, and it kind of leads to everything else. So let's dive into this. Yeah. And so I've been thinking about that a lot lately. I actually had a dream. I've had a couple dreams that were pretty violent, one, I mean, it violent. Like I was choking a guy with a belt and he was like wanting to die. I was trying to choke him and he's basically like, okay, get over it already, but I couldn't kill him. And I kept trying to choke him, you I bring that up. It might seem like a weird segue, but I bring it up because As I've been sitting with that emotion of what is it, what would it feel like? What did it feel like in the dream to be choking this person out? Kind of the guilt, the, don't want to do this, but like it felt like I needed to. And it felt like he, wanted it to happen. was time. Um, it kind of lit a fire in me again, lighting a fire. It lights like this fire. That's like, Oh, I. I don't have to take everything else on. I can like what I like. can, I can be who I want to be. I can, I don't have to apologize. I don't have to dim my light. I, we were talking the other day and I was, I was resonating with that line from night of the seven kingdoms where he's like, the gods make it made you tall. So be tall. Yeah, dude, you told me about that. it gave put me put a pep in my step to frankly. so. So in other words, I've been kind of sitting with that lately, this question of like, well, then who is Mike? Like if, if I'm not absorbing everything else and I'm not peacemaker or I'm not the one like who, who does make myself small, like who is Mike and what lights Mike up? Yeah, that's what I want to know. I, I, I'm, I'm, I'm starting to interrupt. I'm just like giving some banter so that we have back and forth here. I don't want to know what is everyone else's expectation of Mike and what is everybody else's version of Mike? What is the Mike-est Mike? Who is that? That's a fucking hard question. it? No, this is good. I know I like the question. I'm just uh I would say. at my core. I am. because I'm a private person too but like um I feel most in my element when we're in those places where I can dance, can drum, can sing, I'm encouraging other people to do it and join along. I... think I bring out the, I have a way of bringing out the best in people and connecting people in that way. But I love doing it, I'm not doing it for them. I'm doing it because I like being at the center of the party and the one kind of like getting people to move their hips and dance. that's when I feel like the most me. When I'm like, this feels like me. And maybe I question that because there are times when I'm just like, no, fuck off. I want to be alone. But I think I need moments like that to recharge. then I like, like. I don't know, but that's energizing too. So I guess I guess that's where I get a little bit confused, right? Cause like, cause lately I've felt very much like talking about getting old. I felt very content to just stay in and not go out and go to bed early. I've started going to bed early, which I I've always been the night owl. I've kind of a night owl and I'm. person. I've been like, I've been not like a middle of the day person. If I could take a siesta in the middle of the day. Yeah, just sleep and like a four hour siesta like sleep between 10 and two. eh Not bibliotheca. ah Um, yeah. So am I jumping around too much with that answer? Oh, okay. Oh, do you me to be, am I, did I, I would love to hear more. yeah. Because, you know, the thing you're talking about is important, you know, that, know, that maybe most people know this and I'm just like late to the party. But when people talk about introvert, extrovert, like Carl Jung, who we talk about frequently, that's the dude that coined this stuff and like, and sort of like brought this to the the collective consciousness to the zeitgeist. He talked about people being extroverted or being introverted, right? And to me, it's one of the more misunderstood concepts because it's like, no, it doesn't have anything to with being shy or quiet or loud or boisterous and belligerent. You know what I mean? It's about how you get energized and you said a thing there that I want to kind of dive into because I think we could like talk to each other about this. doing the thing of like being social, going out, having friends, being, you know, interacting. That's a skill that a person can do, but to an extrovert that Being social, being out, being public, charges up their battery and makes them feel fulfilled, know, makes them feel good about themselves. My wife is a good example of that. She's got a, that just fills her up. So I... an introvert, it can do all those things, but it drains their battery. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you. I just wanted to finish that thought. I'm glad you finished it. Cause I, you, you clarified something for me there. So for example, like last night I went out to that jam session that I've been going to like that. Did I meet the coolest? I meet the coolest people there. met this, like, I met this, uh, I don't know where his heritage is from. I mean, he's from LA, but he's like, he's this musician. He's in a band. I'll send you the band. Um, but he's. Like his heritage is like Mesoamerican and he is in a band, a great, like just gifted guitarist. And also he got a degree in Mesoamerican studies, pre-colonial Mesoamerican. And so we had like a deep conversation about like, anyway, I mean the coolest people. um And that recharges my battery. Um, except for, and Doug, you sent me this book that I've been loving. Um, I forgot the name of the book was. stop letting everything affect you or whatever. Have you reading that? It's fun, huh? through it and it's a quick read and it's quick listen. I'm listening to it. um But it talks about boundaries and oh people pleasing. And I feel like I am an extroverted people pleaser. And what I mean by that is I love, I recharge being extroverted more than introverted, but. being extroverted can drain me if I don't have my boundaries. Like for example, I was there that night and earlier in the night I went out to smoke a joint out there with David and some people and they all went in to listen to this music and I got stuck in a conversation with a guy which was great for the first 10 minutes. But then the next 10 minutes I felt like I was just listening to him. I wanted to go back and see the music. And I, and then I heard that part in the book where it was talking about like setting like good firm, but like respectful boundaries or, I, I think I could have easily said, look, I'm loving this conversation. I really want to go hear the music. Let's, can we put a pin in it and pick it back up or something? Instead I had 10 minutes of just like, when is this guy going to stop talking? When is he going to stop talking? When is he going to stop talking? And when can I make my exit? And I felt drained. I felt drained after that. Yeah. um Yeah. It's good to know about. Yeah man, so how do you feel alive? Music's an easy answer. It's okay. Easy because of how amazing music is, right? like playing music, singing music, going to concerts, live music. I mean, that's why I go to so many concerts. That's why, you know, I love playing music so much because I, I feel most alive when I'm out doing that. Yeah, I love that. I think because I'm very good at it. People probably would be surprised to hear that I actually, that does drain me quite a lot. And you know, you know this about me. Like social stuff, it is a drain on my system, you know? Going to a like concert, I mean every year I go to a big 3D music festival. We like to go to concerts. I mean, we've been to one together, but we like to throw concerts, you know? Like those, remember when we did that, something chill on a Friday night and it was like, everybody come in, bring your pads and pillows and blankets and just like chillax and do your drugs, you know? Was it two years, really? Two years ago, like around now, like April, March, like that was our last live show. Yeah. Yeah. We do. Yeah. We fucking should. Yeah. We've gotten better at music. We've gotten some good songs too. And we've always got good songs. I uh really loved the, mean, I've been playing nonstop, both of your two newest ones. I think they're your two newest, unless you got some other surprises in me, but like the, um break on free and Heidi, Heidi home. And then. Break On Free are good. I've been really loving, you know, um I played Come Rest Ye Saints for some people and they were like, that song is beautiful. Why do you have to make it about Mormons? Like just make it about everybody because everybody feels the things that you're talking about. And I was like, oh, so lately I've been instead of saying, come, come ye saints as the first line, I say, Come, come my friends. I that. And then when I say, oh breathe, when I say come breathe, saints, I've been saying come breathe, oh friends. Friends isn't quite the right word. I'm still looking for a word, but those are only two words. could you have, could you say, come, come my friends? mean, could you use saints the second time? Well, you know what? in like a reference, just as like kind of a nod to your past, but not like, yeah. Last night I sang it and I said, uh come breathe, child, as if I was sort of like the Papa Bear singing. And that kind of rolled, that kind of played. that I got some, I felt the spirit when you said that. Yeah, I felt that. Yeah. Oh, big dad energy. people that hang out with me are like, I think, I think I feel like, I feel like father energy comes from, you know, I feel, I get a little bit of that sometimes anyway. Um, so those are, so those are new songs that nobody has heard. And in addition, the one that I can't stop playing, Mike is try again. Like that's, I was playing that. I think that try again is maybe like, it's replacing for this is, this is big news. Everybody, everyone like jot down your, open up your notebooks and jot this down. today's February 25th. I think that Try Again is replacing Neverland for me as my favorite song. I love that. Yeah, I really love that song. And I'm still waiting for it. need their Spanish verse to do Do you have it? No. No, because it's not sincere yet. It's me trying, but your Portuguese is muy bueno. I like that. I like that verse. So what what what lights dug up? What's the most Dougie Doug thing? What's the duggiest of doug things? Um, you know, Mike, I, I've been thinking. that a lot lately and I have to admit this this I think that I think that for for people who don't feel the same way and feel like there's always gonna be like an angle or there's like I get something out of it I've been talking with Tracy about this a little bit you know like I really feel I really come to life when there's harmony and people are having like, people are having success and like, like able to sort of like, I like watching people get rid of some of their bullshit. probably because I've been really trying to shed some of my bullshit, um, over these course of these mass, these past. two decades I've been trying to like shed my bullshit and scrape my own barnacles and just be like a, and just live out loud, I guess, to use cliche kind of phrasing. I love that in myself and I can feel it and I get into flow state. Like I live for finding a flow state. Do you know what I mean? It's hard to capture that when we record a podcast or when we uh record music, but We've been in it together when we play live music, that flow state where it's just like, like it's, it's, it's enveloping us. It's, it's, it's wrapping us up in a big warm hug, like cozy blanket. It's not so much the music, but the music is a big part of it. It's not so much the company, but the company's a big part of it. It's not so much the setting, but a setting, the setting is a big part of it. It's everyone being able to. lay down the things that they think are super important and like their masks and just be the most pure version of themselves and get into flow state. I fucking live for that, man. That lights my red ass right up. know I mean? I'm like a cartoon character bouncing across the water with... smoke coming out of my ass. I, I, that's what, that's what makes me feel alive. I, I, I feel it with my friends. I feel it with my family. I feel it with my kids, my coworkers. feel, I really do. And people could say, well, um, it's easy to be in the various positions that you are in Doug and feel those ways. Um, to, to, and maybe there's something like condescending about it or like something like whatever. And No, that's not it. That's what I've been working with Tracy on. That's not it at all. I'm in some of those places. you mean like a, like a privileged kind of perspective or what? Yeah. easy for you to like, just sort of like feel like you're getting lit up by other people's success and other people's triumphs and other people's joys because you feel comfortable in your own triumphs and successes and joys. Fucking bullshit. No, I don't. I've got like hits and misses and some big losses and some big insecurities, but I cannot deny. And that's what I was talking to Tracy about last week. I can't deny. I, it lights me up when I see people like accomplish the thing they've been working so hard for or get the, or, or, or, or move into the next phase of their life or, or, or have a, have a win or, or, or even none of those things and just get an opportunity to drop the fake phony bullshit. We coined a phrase. I was hanging out with uh my brother. recently and we, and he and I came up with a word and it was, uh I know that's just the way we do it, bro. That's how we do it. But the word we came up with was, uh uh, fosome. So it's like a combination of the French word faux, like F A U X and wholesome of this, like this, like put on version of like wholesomeness, but you can see right through that and you can see the person being fosome. You know what I mean? And it's just like, I love it. I love it when I see people's gritty. dirty underbelly. Like I love that. You know what I mean? That's what I love. That's what makes me come to life, Mike. Doug, I'm gonna repeat a couple of things back to like one. The gods made you tall literally and metaphorically in all the ways they made you tall. So be tall. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Interrupt me please. that I'm gonna, later I'm gonna apologize to you for talking too much, but this is one of those things. The height thing is interesting, right? Like, I've met other people. So I am somewhere in between. Like I just went to the doctor this morning and I'm not quite six feet five, but I'm also taller than six feet four. Do you know what I mean? And I've met people who are... who will tell me that they are six foot four or they're six foot five and I'm fucking taller than them. Mike, you've been around me when I've met those people. It's strange, right? I can't figure it out. Anyway, the gods made me tall so I should be tall. One other thing they say in that show too, before he says that line that you're going to love Doug, I'm going to spoil it for you, but it's great. goes, do you get punched in the face a lot? He's like, beg your pardon. He's like, tall people tend to get punched in the face more than other men. He's like, that checks out. That checks dude. I've been punched in the face. think I've been punched in the face way more than the human average. Like probably like on the upper end. Like I'm not a like for a person who's not a UFC fighter or a boxer or Irish. I think I've been punched in the face more than like the average person. I laughed at that line and immediately just thought of you. But the, no, the reason why I say be tall because, um, it is so easy to feel in the flow state when I'm around you. And I know others feel the same way. So you talk about that's what you love doing. You bring that. And so you bring it out of people too. And so just being in your presence. I'm like, Oh, all of a sudden I'm in the flow state. It's so easy to feel confident. It's all it's so easy for me to fill Mike to bring that energy. I'm talking about earlier. Where, cause like sometimes I, you know, like I go out alone, like, know, sometimes I'm talking about going to like, like Tuesday nights. I've been going to this jam thing at this. And some nights I feel like I'm in the flow and I'm feeling like Mike and some nights I don't. And I know everyone goes through that. We all go through ups and downs, you know, and, but a lot of times when I'm out alone. Sometimes it's like I'm in my flow and sometimes it's just kind of in and out of it. But I don't know. There's many times that I've been out with you, Doug, where I've not been or just around in like the Airbnb or whatever we're doing. And I'm like, I just, so it's just so easy to be in the flow. And so that's why I'm like, if it is privilege, that's the best way you can use your privilege. I couldn't agree more actually. enough of like, enough of the... privilege as like a Weapon, do you know what mean? Like like like to admit that to admit there's privilege is Nothing doesn't mean you have to give up anything. It means you now it means now like bring everybody along Like let's get let's get something going here. Do you know what I mean? you know, that phrase, check your, your privilege. I feel like it just needs to be more like, I think there's some acknowledging it, acknowledging your privilege, but to check it, then you're just, you're, if the gods gave you a gift and you're shrinking and not use, mean, the whole Bible verse of like, you know, uh, you know, putting it under bushel or the talents and hiding your talents or whatever. There's truth to that. Like if. If we're not using our strengths, all of us have some sort of privilege, some more than others, some have 10 talents, some have one, whatever. But like, then you're not, you're not being you. You're not, I'm not being me if I'm dimming that privilege. Do you mind me telling a mic story? sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt at all. Go ahead. No, no, I'd love to hear a Mike story. No, I'd said what I wanted to say. Yeah. um So you've kind of like uh mentioned this little Tuesday night jam session thing that you've been attending in Los Angeles. Like for most people, there's something very daunting about hearing that. This is like the, know, people can argue with me if they want and I'll take your calls and I'll respond to your texts and emails. You're welcome to send them to me. But like Los Angeles, California, it does have the cream of the crop. The talented people go to Los Angeles and try to make it. And so you got people from all over. There's very few. Yeah. every time I go, I'm meeting, you know, someone from Montana, someone from Chicago, someone, and you know, like in high school, they were the, they were it. They were like, they were their star. They were in all the musicals and they have bands and the musicians and now they're out here and they are incredible. So having that in mind, you've told uh the podcast about this jam session. it gives you the chance to interact with other musicians. you've actually told stories about it. I remember uh one of them that stands out to me that I know you told in the podcast so I can tell it here. But you've told me a lot. The one about the person who performed and you felt uplifted and you felt like you were all like in some sort of like higher plane and then afterwards you were talking to this person and they said oh, yeah, it was like a pillar of light and then you connected that way like The the subtle the thing that you don't mention is that you have all this access like people are like Opening up and welcoming like your mic in this because people don't like we don't talk about this enough That's what this podcast is. That's what our music is. what like you and I am. I really hope that I am not offending you in any way, or form. When I say what I'm about to say, you and I are not the most technically skilled musicians on the planet earth. Far from it. Actually, we are a couple of bungling, barely wants wannabes. You know what mean? And yet. everywhere I go and everything I'm involved with. The people that are like these amazing musicians want a piece of Mike. They're like, I want to play your music and I want to like sit and talk to you and bask in your energy and want to let's play your Austin Knight song and I to my thing. Like dude, Mike, you have this gravitas that that Adam and I were talking about. Like people are just like, man, there's just, there's some, there's just something about Mike. Like, you know, that old movie, there's something about Mary. There's just something about Mike that makes these like God gifted, talented musicians that are like performing and you're at their show. And then after their show, they're like coming to you and being like, Hey, come back here backstage and you're Mike. I want And I've heard so much about you and now I want to just have bask in your light and bask in your energy. will you tell me about your music and like, what's your fucking secret, dude? Like, what is your secret with that shit? We've talked about this. We've talked about it before tripping how you just say, huh. There should be a stage and musicians here and then somehow things just like are created and it's like, okay, fine, Mike, we'll do it for you. Like, is your, what is your secret? Miguel? I'm gonna answer that question in the, dude, I'm so excited to tell you about my dream from last night. I knew you were gonna answer. I knew somehow, dude, you haven't shared a dream with me for a while and somehow I knew you were gonna bring a dream into this question. So I went to this thing last night and I, you know, I get in those things where I, I, I internally, I've filled some imposter syndrome because I'm chatting with these people and they're talking about, are you going to, are you going to go up there tonight? Am I not not tonight? I can't wait to hear your music and what are you going to play when you go up there? And you know, I'm, I'm talking to these people and they, know, they can just make the instrument sing and I'm going to be up there like G to D to C. You're a grand old flag, you're a high flying flag. I was talking to this guy last night. was talking about he's learning the harmonica and I've been trying to pick up the harmonica lately. And, he busts out his harmonica and I'm like, Oh wait, no, you're really picking up the harmonica. He's explaining to me the intricacies of like how, you know, it switches mid, mid harmonica when, you know, the up breathing in and out is, I don't know. He was giving me all of the. 101 on harmonica. circular breathing, he's like doing all the things. You're just like, But similarly, like the guy I'm talking about, the guy from, I don't know if he's Native American or Mesoamerican or whatever, that guy I met. He's invited me to his show in Long Beach on Friday. He just wants me to come see him. He's like, you have to come to my show. And I probably will. um Because I think it's the vibe. And so this dream. I'm at this jam thing and someone's given me a saxophone to play and I'm trying to play it and it's clunky as hell, right? It's like, I'm just like doing this scale. like, I'm not on rhythm or anything. everyone, it's like, you know, like, you know, in these jam sessions, like they, when it's time, like they'll give each other space when the, uh, the pianist is like, uh, time for his solo or time for, you know, they, they switch having their solos. So it's the time everyone's turned to me and they're chanting Mike and it's like, I'm doing my saxophone solo. I'm squeaking, the notes are there, but I'm just having the time. Everyone's chanting, cheering me on. And uh news cameras are on there. Like the news is there, they're filming me. And I'm just like self-conscious, but like having a good time. And everyone's just, I'm missing all the notes. I'm a terrible musician. especially on the saxophone and everyone's fucking loving it and cheering me on. And I woke up from that dream, I was like, that last night, I can send it to you. And that's where it's. listener, I had no idea Mike had this dream last night. We have not talked about this today. In a while, it's a while that I what what is life? Yeah. So like I mean, walking away from that dream, it's like don't worry if you're not as skilled as these guys. Don't worry if that you're not. You don't know the scales and. Whatever. um You're bringing a vibe. Just bring the vibe. Be you. And people are cheering you on, people are supporting you, and people are loving the saxophone you're playing. uh I'll send you the full dream later. you got to send me to the dream. It's funny, like you just said the thing about BU, like the most... tired, played out, cliche quotes are the most tired, played out, repeated quotes and messages because of how true they are. Like my daughter, my middle daughter, forever has had this little sign in her room that says, everybody knows it, says, be yourself. Everyone else is taken. But dude, that's... Like easier said than done. Like everybody hears that and they're like, yeah, ha ha for sure. But yourself, everybody else has taken well, except for the fact that everyone is trying, including me, everyone is trying so hard to be some other version of themselves or somebody else, or they're doing an impression of somebody else. They want to be to like, to be able to to get love. But the problem is... They're everyone else has taken like just like we can't, we, I can't fully love me and I can't fully love Mike and I can't fully love anybody else out there until I get the full that person. So Doug can't fully love Doug until Doug comes face to face with who Doug really is. And it's just like his duggiest Doug. He's the duggiest version of Doug he can possibly Doug. And that's what I've been really That's what I've been really sort of like surfing lately. I've just been like, okay, bro, like let's, if we believe this shit, then let's really do it and let's lean on it. And it's gonna, it's weird. I'm look, mean, I, I look like what I look like and I'm in the business world, but so far, so good. Like people have been like, Oh, it seems fine. that's that guy who's got like a button. by the way, look at my new hair. damn, got a new one. Oh, that looks good. I can't see it fully, but. at that 14. It's 14 karat gold. So it's not, so it's not like fancy shit. It's gold with a little Emerald inlay, a little hoop. Anyway, people are like, Oh yeah, that guy's weird. He's got tattoos and long hair and just bearded and kind of kind of doofy. Like he's kind of a doofus. But, and he sat down this motherfucker from Idaho. I can't even picture where Idaho is. I'm in Florida. I kept telling people that this was funny. People are like, Oh yeah, Idaho. And I was like, well, it's kind of like Florida. Like it is turned upside down. If you turn upside, if you turn Idaho upside down, it kind of looks like Florida. That's what I kept telling people. Yeah. But it's so silly, right? It is a Doug Joe. Yeah. It's pretty Dougie. Um, but like, it's so funny because I think there's something unassuming. Like people are like, this guy's from Idaho. Does he, is he a potato farmer? Idaho, there's potatoes there. He probably doesn't know. Two plus two, he probably doesn't know math, you know? And so I think there's something disarming when I'm just like, okay, I'm here, I wanna hear, I want you to tell me who you are, and I wanna hear what's your biggest vice. By the way, what's your answer to that question, Mike? What's your biggest vice? I was thinking of that because you know, growing up I obviously as a Mormon boy, I would have said sex even though I had sex, uh masturbation porn would, know, but that's not, mean it. um I think my biggest vice, I don't know what it is, but there's something about procrastinating. Like where I will get sucked into a, I've had to delete the games off my phone. I'll get sucked onto a game. uh I get sucked into social media. get like, there's like a dopamine thing. Like, cause I'm not really, I'm not really a gambler. Obviously, you know, substances are a vice of some degree. mean, alcohol is there, right? It's not not a vice. But it's not like I had not had trouble stopping for, you know, when I need to. So it's not like. But for me, there's just a lot of the day that just like, like I can get my phone is a big vice for me. And um can really suck. So I think I was telling you, I was listening to this book, big, no, the big, the big leap. And he was talking about like starting to live your life on quantum time, where it's like you make your time is coming from you. Don't say I don't have enough time. Time is coming from you. um And ever since then, it's like, oh yeah, I noticed how much time I get sucked into even by just checking my phone or. And I don't know. I think that's the vice. It's almost like distraction as a vice, right? Like there's, there's, yeah. How about you? I mean, how much time you get? mean, listen, unfortunately, I'm riddled with vices, you know? I obviously uh substance abuse, like not just booze, mean, substances. I like my stuff, you know? I like to get fucked. I'm... um a little too flirty without taking into account people's um feelings. For me, flirting is like breathing. uh I think that's a major advice of mine. I am a gambler. ah I'm judgy. I expect perfection from the world. Because think I, sneakily, I think I expect perfection from myself. And so when I don't give it to myself, I get kind of cranky. And when the world doesn't give it to me, I get kind of cranky. And then, I think that my main vices are I work too hard, I care too much, and I love too deeply. That's kind of my, that's my like joke answer. Cause that's what, that's some kind of, I do all those things. You know, I, it's funny. The hard work thing is a funny thing because like, you know, uh, I play a lot, but I really tell my, there's, I was talking to a mutual friend of ours. was talking to her about this the other day. I tell a certain group of people about what I'm playing, um, almost to hold me accountable to play because if I don't, I won't play. I'll just like, I'll just like get into the rut and just like kind of keep my head. I'll keep my head down and, forcing myself to get out of that head space and just play by telling you all what I'm doing and being like, I'm going to go do this. Like today is a good example. had the fucking day of my life today, but by telling my accountability buddies, my friends, people like trust the most who don't think I'm rubbing it in, who don't think I'm bragging, who don't think I'm like, Doug gets all the fun. There's a handful of you that are like, oh, celebrating that and joyful about it, and it holds me accountable to do that kind of stuff. Do you know what I mean? So anyway, that's my long list of vices. came over the vices. I do think I can get in a victim thing too much. uh How we were talking about earlier about me not having a good sense of my own likes or like trust, trusting what I like. I can outsource that too much. um The whole, you when you were talking about, I'm not gonna be your Tyler Durden. I think I project that out and then I take like a, so I can be, I don't have to be the one to blame or to want to take responsibility for things. Like a shirk responsibility. It feels fun being like this dirty and vulnerable and honest, doesn't it? It does. And you know what's funny? We were talking about, you know, that quote you had in your daughter's, your daughter, you're talking about with your daughter. like, started this episode talking and wondering about pickleball in Utah. And why do Mormons like grab it, you know, and, and there definitely is a thing of like, you know, I've talked about it. One of the things I've loved about like, my kids out here in California is, I mean, there's bullying in schools out here, but because there's diversity, the kids aren't trying so hard to stand out and be, it's like they, kind of naturally get more comfortable being you. Maybe that's the times. don't know, but I feel like in Utah, it's really hard because everyone's white and Mormon and, uh, middle-class upper middle-class are kind of in that range. And so go to the school and everyone. blonde hair, like you, goes to church like you. em And the only way you can like stand out is to be the best at what everyone else wants to do. That's pretty, that can mess with a kid. Like no wonder there's like weird depression rates and suicide rates and stuff like that in Utah. No wonder Utah is second only to Los Angeles to things like uh plastic, like body enhancement and sculpting. And I'm not, hey, look, I'm not hating on that kind of shit. Like I think that people should look the way they want to look, but. I, it probably also comes with a, that toll. It's one of the more heavy tolls that we, guess we pay, you know, interesting.