Do I Need to Apologize for My Life? (#228)

Mike and Doug bounce from Neil Diamond, the Oscars and current events into a wider, more personal conversation about privilege—where it shows up, how it gets talked about, and how it can mess with your sense of self. Along the way, they circle questions of shame, responsibility, identity, and the pressure to either defend yourself or shrink. It’s not a linear conversation and it doesn’t try to land on a clean answer. Instead, it moves the way these topics actually do—through tangents, stories, and honest reflection—asking what it looks like to acknowledge your advantages without losing yourself in the process.

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Transcript

1:20

Get them all out. know what? It's fine if we have a little bit of the sniffles, like it's going around, you know? Yeah, it is. uh I guess I can just say this. I Stephanie sent me a message today and she was talking about how she's been sick for like nine days. And I'm like, okay, I can relate. And I guess there's like a long sickness going around or I don't know. Dude, I've heard that phrase, long sickness. Yeah, well, there's like long COVID is a thing. But that's like a different thing. about like, um, I've just heard as long sickness, but people have been telling me they've like not quite recovered from the flu, not quite recovered from COVID, not quite recovered from a cold or a sinus uh infection, you know, just some sort of congestion. And they've, you know, in my social circle circles and at work, people have been like, yeah, long sickness. I'm like, oh, okay. Okay. I guess I have long sickness, which is it's been weird because I haven't like been like full blown sick. It's just been annoyingly sick for like four weeks. Like last week, it got bad enough that I like almost. Well, I canceled the concert because of it and I canceled, I canceled some stuff. Yeah. But even so tomorrow I'm going to a concert with Evan and I'm really glad it's not tonight. I'm hoping I feel a little bit better tomorrow. Uh, I probably wouldn't cancel tonight. pretty under the weather, huh? Yeah, I almost I almost canceled on this, I want to I wanted to chat. You, dude, you almost canceled on this. You know I would have been open to it. I've been like community organizing all fucking day. I would have been an easy out uh tonight. Yeah, well, sorry, I should have maybe said it earlier, but I'm glad we're here. We're here. What happened? Did you? ah same dude. I'm way glad we're here. I'm trying. I'm playing with, I don't want to hit my button on my mic anymore. Cause I feel like it makes, it makes noise. You know what I mean? I started doing that last time too, so I'm going to do the same. oh So every time we have like a little sniffle, we can just use the digital mute button instead of our physical mute buttons. So there's not so much. on some of the episodes, I'm like, my gosh, we're like meeting all the time. And it picks it up. You look all cozy there, man. What you got going on? kind of, so it's, well, so here's the thing. It's been warm, unseasonably warm, you know? Yeah, same here. We've been like the nineties. Yeah, okay, geez, really, you've been in the 90s? Yeah, it's been awful. Here I did, I just muted through the mic. I heard it too. Frankly, I heard that mic. I'll be honest with you. I heard that shit. So, yeah, it was like 78 today. so like, you know, that basically my systems are like out of whack. And so like now I'm now that the sun has gone down and it is a little bit cold and the heater is not turned on, I'm a little chilly. So that's why I look all cozy with my little. blanket wrapped around me right now because I'm a little chilly. Well, Doug, before we hit play on this, you sent me a couple of Neil Diamond songs and I'm still like, feeling the spirit from those ones. Dude, didn't, like what, so let me ask you this question, Mike, because I think it's really dorky to like Neil Diamond. I think that's like a, it's like, it's broadly accepted that um liking Neil Diamond makes you uncool at music. Is that fair to say? Well, I you're talking to a guy who, mean, when people ask me, my musical inspirations, you know, like when we're going to go record and I mean, everyone's asked us, like when we're playing with the studio musicians and they're like, they're helping us bring like our songs to life. They're like, what's, what's your musical inspiration? And I'm kind of like, well, Broadway, Aladdin. I don't know. So you're talking to a guy like this. So, but I get what you mean with no diamond. I get it. Well, so like, it's funny because like, you know, we've recorded a few times and also we've performed live and I'm still trying to find my voice. You know what I mean? But. do mean? Just, mean like... I'm still trying to like get into that zone where it's like real, I'm like in my comfort zone. Like this is how I, this is me, this is how I sing. You know what I mean? Still trying to learn that. think that's an ongoing, I think it's an evolution. But you know, I've talked on this podcast and I've talked to the people that we care about. I've talked about like Eddie Vedder, Elton John, you know, the big like musicians that I... Chris Cornell, you know, that kind of stuff. But Mike, the biggest compliment I ever got, I almost sort of dismissed it. Last summer when we were in LA recording, Austin Nights and Holy Smokes, Evan was like, Evan goes, me and David and Evan were out talking and smoking and he goes. You kind of, you're kind of like, you kind of like sing like Neil Diamond. I was like, Oh, like, I didn't know if they meant it to be like, uh, uh, Oh yeah, good job. Or, or a little bit of like a that's uncool. And I, I took it, I took it as like, yeah, sorry that I don't know how to sing very well. Like kind of sing like Neil Diamond a little bit, but more and more I'm just like, I think that's my origin story. Like I think Neil Diamond is in my DNA. And so I sent you some songs. Well, I also feel like in listening to those songs, like I think sometimes I've shied away from leaning into the revival aspect because of the Mormon because we're ex Mormons. And I don't want to be like, um I don't know, there's a there's something there for me, but I love good like revival music and we a lot of our songs are revival songs. And in fact, if we just lean into that a little bit more like. Isn't that right? the songs, just listeners so you can catch up at home, the two songs that I sent Mike were Holly Holy and Sulemon by Neil Diamond. By the way, is Suleymano a word or did he make up a word like in a libasa way or is that like a So, Suleymane is a word. think it's like a... Yeah, I think it's like... uh It's not a Hebrew word. think it's like Arabic. I think it's Arabic. I think Suleiman is like Arabic. Yeah, consult. Let's fuck. got technology. What does it mean? uh Hold on. I have to spell it right, but I think I got it. Okay, Suleiman. Well, listen to this. It's a largely fabricated rhythmic word created by Noel Diamond for his 1969 song Suleiman. Inspired by the Arabic word salam, it generally signifies peace, welcome, hello, or goodbye. Functioning as a musical spiritualist. Dude, you are Noel Diamond. the fuck is going on here, dude? We're in like, Inabalabasawai territory now, huh? Yeah, uh-huh. Dude, I'm so excited about that. I'm so glad this is what it turned out to be because... What? Neil Diamond made up that word? The word was crafted by Neil Diamond to evoke an African inspired tribal sound to fit the theme of his Taproot manuscript album. my gosh, holy shit. It translates to a blessing or salutation often described as meaning peace be with you. I know diamonds, dude. I'm. I didn't know. I, I, I'd never heard these songs. I thought I'd heard a lot of no diamond. I probably have, but really I probably only heard mostly like the coming to America songs and when he sings 4th July songs and when he sings Christmas songs. Yeah. Uh knows Sweet Caroline and Coming to America and stuff like that. And I think it's dorky to like Neil Diamond, but I fucking, Mike, let's go deeper. I sent you a version of, I sent you, I was fucking around on the guitar and I sent you a version of me playing uh that Meat Loaf song, I Would Do Anything for Love. Yeah. And what it comes down to is me trying to play I Would Do Anything For Love by Meatloaf sounds like, uh like honestly, it sounds like somebody that's trying to sing an Eddie Vedder song doing a Neil Diamond impersonation. dude, I think Neil Diamond might be in my DNA. I think Neil Diamond is in my heart and soul. Well, I also think Eddie Vedder is too. So I think there's look, you can think you can look at it as you could be a cross between the two. And then you can, you don't have to worry about leaning in and being dorky if that's what you're worried about. Yeah. I mean, he, he, didn't look like a hippie with cool earrings and a beard and like, it's just so like amp amp up the Neil Diamond. Cause you're, you're yeah, there's room to amp it up. That's what I'm trying to say. I've got more room in my Neil Diamond era to grow. Holy shit. I am a tiny little bit tipsy because I've been doing community events all day. Well, I'm drinking, I'm drinking something called magic cactus. I'm going to do a little plug for magic cactus here. I don't think they deliver it to Idaho, but they deliver. found it out through Instagram, but it's a, it's a cannabis drink, but it's only like two grams of THC and like a lot of CBD. They've tried to blend it. So it has the feeling of drinking one beer. Nice, I like that. minute there, I'm like, this isn't strong enough. Like I'm not feeling anything. So I get on their site and they get that complaint a lot. And the guy's like, look, man, we just want to be like you drink a beer. So of course you're not going to feel like crack open a Corona, drink one of them. You're probably not going to be feeling like, come on. Like, okay, fair enough. a, that's a good point. because the other, I have another wee drink, Brez, that I, you had them in my apartment, those Brez drinks. Those are five, those are five milligrams. And so usually sometimes if I drink two of those in a night, I'm like, yeah, know, 10 milligrams can get me pretty high. But anyway, drinking a magic cactus. So I'm toast to you. toast. Yeah, here. Where's my... Well, shoot, where did I put my... I know I brought my water bottle down here. Hold on. uh Do a little storytelling, Mike, while I look for my water bottle. Okay. Well, look for your water bottle. I'm actually going to do a toast while you're looking for it. Last time we did a toast to Brammer and I really liked that. And so I'm actually going do another toast. I'm going to toast to my grandpa. Hope this doesn't make it weird, Doug, but like... It's not weird. I'm down. know, I like one of my things I like doing when I set up my ancestral altar and light the candles. And, you know, even in nights I'm not drinking, I'll pour a little out for the ancestors and I'll just do a little sippy sip just to kind of like get in on my tongue and then do a toast. um But. So. My grandpa. Andy. um He died when I was maybe 16, 15. And he was my hero at the time. I wanted to grow up to be just like Andy. And the coolest grandpa, take you on all the fun vacations, be with you, take me fishing. um And he gave me a big head start in life. He... ah You know, I don't like talking about this because it sounds like I grew up fairly rich because of this grandpa. He, he had stock. He made money on the stock. He set it up and he gave it to his grandkids. And it was enough to get me started in life, get a down payment on a house and get me through college. And that's a huge headstart. And I think a lot of my life I've been like running from that in a way. shirking it because it feels spoiled, it feels entitled, it feels privileged. And I think I want to embrace that again now of like, what a beautiful head start to and what a generous thing to do. mean, he could have lived. Yeah. his posterity, man. He wanted you all to have like a leg up. He wanted you to have access, right? He wanted you to have things he had to scrimp and save for. He wanted you to get there. That's pretty cool, man, to Andy. And his dad died when he was young. When he was sick, when, sorry, I'm just one more thing. And then when he was like, uh, when he was, yeah. And so the last, uh, and so I, even like the last like six years of his life, he lived in a small condo in Farmington. He could have built like this big old house, but he gifted it to his grandkids and lived in a small apartment. anyway, to Randy. Cheers. cheers. You never found your water, did you? You don't have to find it. Yeah, sorry. Bad luck to not drink in a toast. Maybe I'll text somebody to bring me uh water. Yeah, dude. I feel good saying that out loud, Doug. It's kind of weird. Like I don't. Like the rich aspect. You know, and it feels like. Yeah, because it's been it's been a source of like shame or maybe embarrassment like you've been like oh hide I'm just I'm Whatever, right? Is that better thing? Yeah. Yeah. mean, think, you know, growing up, you know, you get called the rich kid and then it felt isolating a lot. Or I would, but then it was also brought people together. mean, we have, I mean, people over at my house, we. lot of like parties and fun things and, and then, but then the house also was big and it felt empty too. So there's like an isolating thing there. And so I think subconsciously I've been kind of pushing it away in a lot of ways. Like I think I've just felt kind of embarrassed by it. And I don't like to, I mean, we've talked a lot about in this podcast about privilege and how I think we, I mean, I've been learning to kind of just like, re-engage with my privilege in a different way where I can't be, you know, as a white man, yeah, well off white man in today's society, it's easy to like, just kind of push it away. And, but I can't gift it to anyone. I can't make anyone else white and I can't make anyone else a man. And so I can just... and like learn to, Doug's getting delivery of a drink right now. You got one. Fresca. That's a perfect drink. This is perfect toasting drink. How about that? You know what? I'm actually not going to mute this. I'm going to let the old uh system pick up this particular sound. Ready? Yeah baby. Yeah baby. is worth a check from Fresca here. So they should be paying up. Por favor, to Andy. Thank you. Anyway, privilege. Yeah, man, it's a pretty interesting thing to talk about, Because it gets into that space of, okay, should I just be silent then? ah If I acknowledge privilege, if I'm aware of privilege, should I therefore just be, should I retreat? become small. And that's what I, for a long time, that's what I've, I have felt. And I think I still, I think, I think I still wrestle with this concept, Mike. I don't, don't, I don't think I've got a beat on it just quite yet, but I'm, working on it. I think I'm working on it. Um, but I think it's, I don't think it requires silence. I think it's, uh I think it's a, acknowledgement and then it's like a community effort. Like it's like, okay, now let's all like, let's raise all voices and let's get some shit. figured out. I mean, I've spent a lot of my day today even. um Because of privilege, I have access, I've been doing a lot of community building type of things. That's a good thing, right? If I just follow my sword and stay silent and lay low, doesn't that let the powers that be or the patriarchy or uh some of those louder voices kind of bully some of the... some of the underprivileged or less privileged voices. That's kind how I'm viewing it lately. Like if you step, if you didn't, if you're like, Oh, you know, if you felt a certain way about having access to cool events and community events and being like a leader at the community events, then someone else is going to have to step in and fill the whole, the wobbly drill bit would have filled you, right? yeah man, wobbly drill bit is a really good thing. it's not going to be as good and people aren't going to benefit. And it's like, what if privilege was something that you own embrace, but let it flow out. And it's like, uh, you know, it's like that whole thing. You fill your cup first, let it overflow into, you know, others. But, but if you just gifted like a cup full of water and just pour it out because you feel ashamed or you have more water than other people around you. I don't think it helps anybody. Well, and it's also about leaning into your into what, what, what you've got. Like I was, it's so funny. We're talking about this. I was, I was talking, I was talking to my boss today about this and you know, she, she's like a pretty big deal. Like she's the, she's like a head honcho of like a, a pretty cool thing. And she comes from not very much. Like she does not come from privilege. You know what I mean? Yeah. and And even now, as successful and as much power as she wields, she's very easygoing and very approachable and very much that way. And she knows to utilize the skills that I have to direct me towards those types of things. Do you know what I mean? To direct me of like, OK, yes, Doug. comes from more than what I came from and I am Doug's boss, but she's such a badass that she's just like, let me point Doug in good, into the direction of goodness. You know what I mean? Like she, she's like, she's like, she knows how to do that. And if I were just to, you know, shirk that or to like, but I, but I don't want, I don't want people to think that I think I'm better than I am. Cause Yeah, that's my baseline feeling is that I don't want people to feel like I feel any kind of sort of way. I love humanity. I love all humans. I want us all to be sort of like in a LaBassa way. But I do have some opportunity to bring goodness and bring generosity and bring kindness into, uh you know, what I would consider like the business world. Why wouldn't I be real big? Why wouldn't I sort of like explode outward and challenge that status quo of the same old sort of like middle-aged white men or almost retired or actually retired age white men having the same old conversations at, you know, community events, networking events. Why wouldn't I show up looking the way I do and bumbling around and being kind of loud and boisterous and a little bit of buffoon and, also kind of knowing my shit backwards and forwards. Like that's how to deploy and utilize the privilege that I have. It's not, it's not to fucking like bury it and hide it and be ashamed of it. So I'm really glad to hear you saying this stuff, Mike. Like it's, it's like, it's like, it's bringing something out of me, man. It's like, I feel like it can, it's coming out of my whole chest. The gods made you tall, so be tall. eh You know, one of the things that sometimes drives me nuts is like the term NEPO baby. You know, it's thrown a lot with artists, know, singers. And uh I'm of like Gracie Abrams, who's the daughter of JJ Abrams, the famous director. Thinking of like, Clero gets called that a lot. I don't, I don't know who her parents are, but I think they're just wealthy or I don't know, but whatever. She gets called it a lot. of, I mean, you look at Dakota Johnson, uh Kate Hudson. mean, there's tons of examples in the, especially in like the art world, like in the entertainment world. There's tons of examples of Nepal babies, but look at the body of work. Sorry, go ahead and continue. Right. And so, yeah, I and I get the, I get the frustration and the jealousy, you know, frustration of how, cause it is hard to, to make it. It's hard to crack it. It's hard to get noticed sometimes when, you know, you don't have money and you don't have your, your parents don't have famous friends. Um, you know, lot of it's who you know, not what you know. And I get it. And yet. It's not like, know, we're in this society where it's like, feels like, okay, if Gracie Abrams is a star, then it means I can't be a star. But like, if Gracie Abrams is a nipple baby, what better way to use her privilege than to gift us with her music? And Clara or whoever, you know, these artists, you know, yeah, yeah. kid, I can keep, sorry, I just want to keep adding to your list of people who have done really, really good work that also had a foot in the door. And this thing about like being self-made, none of us are self-made. And I think that's one of the we have to, we have to like, and we were talking about F1, with the Oscars coming up, we watched F1 and... should we take a hard turn and just talk? Should we just talk about the Oscars for the conservatively next 45 minutes? Go ahead. Yeah. love to talk about it because uh one with F1 and it ties into this discussion. There's something about the Americans love more than anything of just like, he was just, just got it through grit and, and skill and, know, Brad Pitt like is out of the F1 circuit racing for 30 years. And this, and gets pulled back into it. These cars are the most advanced cars in, in the world. hairpin, like the most advanced technology, the tiny little like a pebble. You know what mean? They're aware of a pebble on the road hitting the right front tire. That's how advanced these F1 cars are. And, you know, in the movie 30 years ago, he got in a crash and it, uh, ruined his career. So now he's back in it. They keep cutting back to those clips of him in the crash and it was like he was driving a fucking go-kart. And then all of a sudden he's, he's competing with these, uh, 20 year olds who have been in simulators since they were six years old, learning these things. But this American comes in just like, oh, Brad Pitt, like, it's just kind of... By the way, it's not just any American. It's literally fucking Brad Pitt. Brad Pitt just walked in, 60 year old Brad Pitt. It's like, okay, well, he can drive anything. Okay, fine. And then at the end, actually finished that. I turned it off that one time after I'm like, I don't need to fucking watch the end of this. But Sunday morning, you know, I was feeling sick and had nothing to do until the Oscars and the selection committee show for the March madness tournament came up. I put on the last third of F1. And of course, even after that, I don't care about spoiling because I'm not spoiling anything in this movie because you've seen this movie a hundred times before. has not seen F1, what do you think happens in F1? Go ahead, go ahead, Mike. Well, to be, to be honest, I knew nothing about F1, never seen a preview for it. Just heard it was nominated for the Oscar. And so I pull it in and I'm thinking, I'm going to get some pretty good drama. Cause in F1 racing, there's naturally some drama. mean, that's why everyone loves it. It's like the different teams and they're all competing and they've got their technology and they got their racers and it's two racers, the team, and they've had a whole reality show about it that I know has like. attracted some of my close friends into like watching it. And, and so I thought there's so many ways you can do this other than make it just like a Hollywood cliche, but that's what they did. And somehow, I mean, Apple pays enough money and you can buy anything in this world for money, which is probably, isn't that the truest line there's ever been in the temple probably. Honestly, the temple the temple has some bangers Mike let's admit let's let's you and I like Prostrate before the Lord and be like, okay. The temple has got some fucking bangers, but none more prevalent then you can buy anything in this world for money It's the I mean, that's it's the truth. It's so true, man. Um, yeah. so funny. How did you feel? So you finally finished it. You watched it over the course of like four watchings, right? Yeah. And he comes back at the end and he's like, no, I'm going to, he finally wins his race. Instead of like, he gets offered to like stay with the team. No, he's going to go do whatever racing they do in Baja Mexico or whatever in in this dunes. And he shows up, he shows up in his RV and they're like, si señor. Have you ever, have you ever raced one of these before? No, I haven't. Yeah, they're just like, okay, bye most. Oh man, it's uh, anyway, that was shit. other than that, I really liked the nominees this year. So I was talking to somebody today about the Oscars mic and I had like a tiny moment of clarity. uh you know how like we, on this podcast for six fucking years now, Jesus Christ. More than that? More than six years? okay. You know, we're always seeking out like some level of like, you know, like an epiphany or a revelation or we're seeking out truth. I don't think we're, I don't even think we're I don't think we even believe in the concept of truth, but we're trying to deconstruct some of our stuff, I had such a great moment today. It was about the Oscars. I was talking to somebody about the Oscars. Every year, and this year is no different, there's a bunch of uh controversy surrounding the Oscars about, wow, man, is Hollywood ever going to make an actual great movie? Or the Oscar ceremonies is just everybody filleting each other and it's going too long and the actual award show takes too long. Oh, and also they... They cut the mics and start playing the music when people are giving their acceptance speeches for winners and blah, blah, They could cut out some of Conan O'Brien, the host was Conan O'Brien. They could cut out some of Conan O'Brien's bits and they could cut out some of his little skits that he does and some of the uh crowd work that is going on. And I'm like, oh, I get it. All of those things have to happen every year. It has to be controversial. That's the whole fucking deal. the whole deal, like if it was just like, hey, uh just so you all know, a bunch of people voted and here's who these people who voted felt was the best movie of the year, they could have sent that in the fucking email, right? They could have just like, they could have put it in a webpage and be like, okay, here's who won all things. Here's who we thought did the best job of acting. Here's the best male that we thought did a good job of acting. Here's the best female that we did a good job of acting. Here's who edited things the best. It's just bullet points. No, they need that, like they need to hold both sides of that and hold it in balance and make it a controversy and say like, yeah, no, uh they're cutting off the demon hunter, the K-pop demon hunters microphones and. Why is Conan O'Brien getting so much extra time? it everything is going according to plan. I like I had such I had such a good revelation about that today where I was like, oh, let me let me take this Oscar. This like completely useless nonsense Oscar uh concept. Let me apply it to the rest of the entire planet Earth. because because that's the whole thing. You know, we need to create that controversy. Without it, it's like, and you know, just enough controversy around like, okay, who gave political speeches and the actors should just shut up and uh like, what are the ratings? The ratings are declining this. Yeah, just all of it. and I've always been a sucker for the Oscars. Like ever since I was young. we've talked about it before. The Grammys are my favorite. Because the Grammys do the best job of putting on display their product, right? The Grammys have the best opportunity to be like, hey, this is the best of our industry. And what we mean is, check this out. And they're just like, play a song. Play your song. you know what? It's they're using their privilege because it is privileged to be able to like have music be what you're doing and live performing, right? Like, em Where with movies, it's like you're not just going to throw the actors on stage and have them like redo a scene from Hamnet. yeah, Daniel, Daniel Day Lewis, get up there, get up on the like, we're like barking at him like get up on stage and prodding him like go go act. Go do that scene from Last of the Mohicans. Okay, ready? Go. the best actor. Show us really you're the best actor. Go. Sean Penn, let's see what you've really got. Do it live. We're gonna do it live. I'm Sean Penn. Well, Sean Penn's not going to come anyway, so is that. up. How did you feel about that? Um You know, teach their own, but it bugged me. liked, my colleague, Hulkin's brother. What's his first first name? Yeah. He, I'd like to throw some shade at him. Just like, yeah, he, he, he couldn't make it or he couldn't make it or he didn't want to be here. That was good. Um, you know, I can't like fault him. when we were talking about this, at least he holds, it's like, he's like, look, I don't care about these award shows. So I'm just not going to show up. Um, On the other side, don't know if we can talk about that part, but I don't know. The Ryan Coogler part bugged me. did it? So I was gonna ask you about it. If we can't talk about it, we can't talk about it, but like. we can talk about it. I don't know why we can't talk about it, but yeah. I was the, I'm the biggest, I don't know how to say this. Sinners, I think was the best movie of the year and also original screenplay and directing and best picture and actor. I mean, it should have won all the awards. It won some of them, but the whole. one battle after another for me was might be the movie that I liked the best that I was the most disappointed one. Does that make sense? It's, it's the Oscar winner that I was disappointed one, but I've liked the best out of all of them that I've been disappointed one just because I like sinners that much more. You know, does that make sense? yeah. Yeah, that's intense. And I mean, I wasn't like super disappointed, but I was rooting for sinners. And I really love one battle after another. And I feel like it deserves the Oscar, but yet I was still disappointed. And it's also kind of weird when Ryan Coogler is like, I'm not going to vote and I don't believe it. It's not a thing. I mean, I don't want to listen. I'm dudes, dudes, incredible and an artist. And I'm not here to like, try to throw any kind of shade on that power to him. But he, he, he shit on it and then accepted it. Like that's what that's to me. That's weird. Like to me, that's a little strange. You know what I mean? Yeah, no, I agree. And so at least Sean Penn is, you know, putting his money where his mouth is. And so I have to honor that. um But I also think there's, there's something about like being like, I don't care about the, you know, this, that adds a little bit more weight to the, the wards too, in a way of, you can just be like, like, I like, the woman in weapons who won the best actress. um Amy Madigan. Amy, yeah, she doesn't seem like she really cares, but she went and just had fun with it anyway. It's like, you're going to give me this thing. I'm going to, I'm going to have fun with it. I'm going to accept it. This isn't this cool. I think you could be more like that. And, and if you, if you really don't want to, if you really are like, this is, we're all just sucking each other off and you know, it's a big circle jerk. Like you can just circle jerks are probably pretty fun. And and Mike and here's the here's the rub on all of this like having said everything that I've said so far Given the opportunity to hang out with Sean Penn or Ryan Coogler, 10 times out of 10, I'm hanging out with Ryan Coogler. also, I think that like, God dang it, I fucking hate the way that this works as a reflection. I would love for you and me to put out an album. That's what I want. That's my dream come true is you and I put out an album. I know, but that's so... it. uh And then to me, that's like the pinnacle of that dream. It's like, dude, we did a thing and this is like a blood, sweat and tears. And this is like a piece of our soul. I don't care about the awards. I don't fucking care who listens to it or who likes it or who doesn't like it or what it meant to anybody. means something to me. You're damn right. I'm going to be front center at the fucking Grammys if that thing gets nominated for a Grammy and I'm going to be like, the Grammys don't mean anything, but I want to win this Grammy and I'm going to give a fucking speech about it. So I get it, dude. I totally get it. It's weird. Life's weird. Yeah. it's weird, isn't it? Yeah. I, I, I'm trying to think what else about the Oscars, but I, uh, Yeah. I don't know. I thought it all went according to plan. You know what mean? Like it all went according to schedule. I mean 30 minutes over but I guess it has to you know it has to go over or not. has to go over or else there's no, there's nothing. What's the internet gonna get all riled up about? What are people gonna be like? to go long enough that people who are still using DVRs to watch it, it's going to cut out the last 10 minutes right before they get to best picture. Or they have to be forced to record the Bachelorette comes again, whatever. your homegirl is the bachelorette I saw. em we might not air it. I heard she's She's in like a domestic abuse scandal. And I think, I think, I think ABC is still going to air this like in the last couple of days, but it's like, uh, they're getting a lot of pressure not to air it anymore. Kind of like, you know, like, like if it were a man, they would not air it probably, but it's a woman. they're getting a lot of pressure. Like, like you, um, yeah. Oh, I had no idea. I had no clue about secret lives of Mormon wives. They're, you know, the Mormons are just doing their thing. Dude, was on, speaking of Mormons, can I pivot a little bit? In our last episode, I talked about being on that panel and that has come and gone. I sat on that panel and someone, it was like a question from the audience or it was like a comment or it was in the chat or something like that. But somebody was just like, oh, you know, they kind of made the comparison of like, people are talking about like Mormonism is this high demand religion and blah, blah, blah. But like you watch, you watch the secret lives of Mormon housewives. And it doesn't seem like Mormonism is all that high demand of a religion. And so then there becomes that thing of people... Now you have ex-Mormons. So now you have a group of ex-Mormons kind of debating, they're battling what it means to be Mormon. Do you know what I mean? Like, oh, well, they didn't get their stripes. They didn't get it figured out. It's such a strange world because they're... They're really the secret wives of Mormon housewives. They are really like capitalizing on that whole vibe. Like they're capitalizing on the whole Mormon thing. But they're not Mormon. They're not doing Mormon. They're not like they're not Mormons like you and I were Mormons. But they are saying a prayer before they go on and yell at each other to fuck off on the, in like the reunion special or whatever. oh Let's talk about this for a minute. talk about this. on your panel, okay. And the panel was specifically about ex-Mormons and psychedelics, right? um Like, it really is a weird thing because you got the Mormon culture, the Mormon religion. um For example, I even had... um I had sent... You know how oh we did... uh Jay had filmed us in that sizzle reel that she's putting together. She wants to do a Mormons and Mushrooms documentary. And I'm sure she's fine if I talk about this. put together a sizzle reel. I sent it to a close friend. They sent it to a friend of theirs and we had a conversation with him and he's like, this feels sensationalized. Why are you putting a fundamentalist Mormon in here? Or why are there all these clips of like Warren Jeffs in the trailer she kind of put together the sizzle reel. She's got like Warren Jeffs, this polygamy, you know, in their cut there. like, well, one of the women who she interviewed was ex FLDS. She was like, and she, she serves ayahuasca to other act. She helps people after they've escaped, escaped the cult of the fundamental church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. And she's got a beautiful story that like, I've only heard parts of it. But like through ayahuasca, she saw all of her abusers and like was forgiving each one. And he's like, I didn't realize that she was fundamental. I'm like, yeah. And so I'm like, he's like, I'm like, so Mormons on mushrooms, we're trying to encapsulate Mormons, not just the mainstream Mormon church that doesn't even want the name Mormon anymore. Right, dude. Well, because long ago, didn't we lay claim? Maybe it was with Steve. Let's go way back to when we had Steve on the podcast, and we laid claim to the Mormon name. Remember that? And so like all these other, all the, we like, we, I mean, we didn't like doing it legally or like trademark or anything like that. So don't everybody get their, you know, don't get all riled up or anything like that. But I remember that episode, Mike, where it was you, me and Steve talking and we were just like, Oh, but the, but the word Mormon uh is cast a wider net and, and, and, and, and incorporates everyone who's been part of that thing. So the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, And it's current iteration can, can say, Hey, we don't want to be called Mormons. And you call us this and call us that. That's totally fine. But ethnically and culturally we are Mormons and there's a lot of us. You know what I mean? Well, and so this guy I'm talking to on the phone, he scoffed at that. Yeah. And I'm like, he's like, he's not, he wasn't buying it. He's like, look, I think you need to, I think you need to keep it to the mainstream LDS church. And I'm just kind of like, why? I'm more like, I disagreed with him on the phone. I said, I don't agree. I'm like, to me, the more fascinating part of Mormonism is the part of Mormonism. that my mixed feelings about Joseph Smith, and I have plenty of mixed feelings about Joseph Smith, the idea that you can talk to God and receive an answer, that is the truth of Mormonism. Now, it just so happened that once everyone started doing it and everyone's like, well, this guy's saying this, this guy's saying this, they'd be like, wait, if you get something that trumps mine, then it's no good and whatever. But that whole thing that you can talk, you can speak to the divine. and receive an answer. That's like the heart of Mormonism. And yeah, it's created a bunch of weirdness all around and including the current church that tries to make itself ever increasingly more and more quote unquote normal. You know, got all the the polygamist offshoots and the spring, whatever. I can't remember all the like different. The grant bill, Springville. don't know what it like. um But what I'm trying to say is like That's so you talk about Mormons on mushrooms. It has to be that. And so in that same thread of like the secret lives of Mormon wives, they're very Mormon, but they're not, no, they're not Mormon. Like we were Mormon. uh No, they're definitely okay just to clarify they are definitely Mormon that's for goddamn sure But they're not the Mormon that we were That's I mean, they like, know, we were we were fundamentalists dude. You and I were kind of like fundamentalists You know what I mean? Like uh staunch. Yeah, we were were McConkey Mormons, you know. Well, and I think to that point, the church itself isn't even McConkey Mormon anymore. Like with the changes that they've made in the 20 years since we were on our missions, like 25 years now, it's a very different church. And we were even at different church than it was when we were on our missions in the turn of the century, not to date us, but that's kind of where we're at. The turn of the century, easy there bud with your phrasing. Come on now, the turn of the century? Now we're saying that? the turn of the millennium, should say. about that? The new millennium. um Yeah, growing up in like the, being, I guess, an adult Mormon in the height of the 80s and 90s, when the McConkey Mormons, which books they don't even have in the bookstore anymore, like Deseret book. All these books that were like next to scripture for us, the church had that we bait, yeah, they're not even allowed, yeah. Mormon doctrine, doctrines of salvation, the miracle forgiveness are no longer available at the church just wants to erase and like those books don't even exist even though they were the only books I could read other than my scriptures on my mission. So here's the, uh you know me, I like metaphors. I like to make little sort of analogies and stuff like that, right? Here's what I'm gonna use. What was your, sorry, did you say something? yeah, of course I do. So. ah Like there's this certain type of uh like dog biscuit that I give Ozzy bear, you know, that it's just this one type he makes a fucking mess of. and, I don't want to buy those ones anymore because inevitably I have, find myself like with the dust, with the broom and dust pan, like sweeping up a little bit of this, crumbs from this fucking cookie that I gave him, right? So now I've got this little pile of crumbs that I'm sweeping up and there's like pretty big crumbs, like the main crumb. I can see the main crumb. I gotta get that one. There's also like some little tiny little minuscule crumbs. I gotta get those too and I gotta sweep them all into the dust pan. You told me that you were talking to him on the phone. It sounds to me like he's saying. Oh yeah, yeah, you don't need to, you don't want to like sweep up all those like tiny ones. Just get the main, just get the main crumb. You don't get, you don't need to get to all the other little crumbs. It's like, no, they all came from the same f****g biscuit dog. We got to, we got to sweep them all up and put them in the dust pan and put it in the garbage, man. Like that's the way, that's the way those crumbs work. They all came from the same dog cookie. And which crumb is the main crumb is a matter of perspective. Right, maybe it's bigger. Yeah, so like it's just because it's bigger doesn't mean it's like more real than the fucking like they're all from the original crumb. It's all the same. They're all they're all the same cookie, you know. See, this is such a stupid analogy, but I love it so much like the dog cookie like the dog biscuit analogy is is good for me is good for my like. Remembering, yeah. So yeah, anyway, that's... Mormons on mushrooms. I was trying to think. I was trying to tie it back. You know, I'm usually good with a good segue and stuff. I'm not doing it well tonight. Well, we've kind of been all over the place tonight a little bit, you know what mean? That's okay. think it's good to go. who the hell else cares? We can stop at 51 minutes. what we, you paid a certain amount of money. So we owe you 60 minutes of fucking talking. You didn't pay shit. Nobody's giving us anything. We're going to just put this out there. Fine. That's the way we do it. That's the way we do it now. Any final words before we do? Yeah, I do want to have some final words. want to talk about, because we're getting ready. I want to talk about, because you and I are practicing, like we're getting ready for the, like in a bigger way than we've ever done before. Like we're taking it fucking seriously. We got a show coming up in June. Yeah. you sent me, I listened to it all the way home. You sent me, you're playing the set list. Are you playing it all at 120? Are you switching it up? you? Okay. So intentionally, intentionally you can hear the metronome, right? uh No, which I love because I want to practice along to your practicing, not just, don't want to just play to the click. want you sent me this tonight. If I'm, if I can fit, you know, with the sickness, I kind of want to just play along to you playing, but also the having the click there. And it's really good. But so far it's kind of worked out that the five songs you did have all played well to the same tempo. And. because I just kept it at 120 and just had it going. So, so Mike, I'm recording, I'm recording on my microphone on my laptop to what I'm sending you. And my phone is the metronome just click, click, click, click, the 120. So that's what you can hear. Yeah. I didn't adjust. I did not adjust the beats per minute. Yeah. did any did any songs feel too fast or too slow? Because they sounded great. Like. They all felt clunky to me. I mean, you can feel it. It takes me a minute to find my way. And sometimes I'm there and sometimes I'm not there because that's just the way it is. like, you know, so funny, like we've been told a number of times from people when we play music with them, like, yeah, guys ought to just, you know, practice with a metronome, practice with a click track. we're like, yeah, we're trying. But then you like, you got today, like the evidence of like how fucking hard that is. It's like, okay, well, I don't. First of all, I don't know what to set the beats per minute at. Every song has tempo is different if you ask me. So I don't know how drummers do it. I'm not a drummer, but yes, all of the ones. So I sent you six songs, right? All six of those, all six. six of all worked pretty, I guess you haven't gotten to a really slow one yet, but I think all six have worked well with two one 20. Yeah, I mean, I fucked up the fairy king. Didn't you love the fairy king with the click track though, by the way? I was loving it. it's actually, because I've been feeling on this one for a bit that it's time to kind of like a refresh on it. Like I wrote the lyrics and I wrote the song early songwriting when it was kind of like, I love it at consistent tempo. And I think it can bring out a few, it could be kind of a different song. We'll see if something else comes out between now and. oh Uh, our show we're going to do. So that's what we're going to say. Um, I, I think we can plug it. I, still haven't talked to, to like, uh, to Seth to see how many people we can have, but if you're one, love of this, if June 13th, you really want to come send us an email. Uh, that's what we'll say for now, but June 13th, we're going to, is it June, the weekend of June 13th, probably the 13th. That's the Saturday. I think we'll need it to be on a Saturday because I think. I think we'll need the time in advance. going to set up and rehearse and all that kind of stuff. So it'll be, it'll be June 13th. Yeah. So June 13th it will be. But I'll tell you this, Mike, do you know what, do you know what putting together that set list and then also just like me, like, like I said, plugging away at it just to that, like to that metronome, do you know what I've like really experienced? Euphoria. I love our songs. I fucking love our songs, Mike. Like I'm playing songs. Like we put songs on that set list that we don't play very often. And the set list is juicy, y'all. Like if you're listening, the set list is beefed up. It's a beefy set list, right? It's just us that night. didn't, know, other times we'd done it. brought in other, it's just going to be us. So it was a beefy one. And as you send it back, I had the experience of those first six songs. like, oh, this, they flow really. We've done a really good job at curating the set list. You were insane. It almost felt like we were writing the whole thing from the beginning. We didn't know. Yeah, dude, that's how it feels, We're just sniffing our own farts. it didn't really, it really is, it is really fun. yeah, I mean, we're talking, we've got, there's gonna be percussion and bass and like drums and, or excuse me, I already said drums, but guitar, maybe even keys. Like we're going for it, huh, Mike? We are. And you know what, can I say something about like, I think the art making process and art sharing process is a little bit like letting people smell your farts. And so if you're not willing to smell your own farts, how are you going to expect other people to want to smell them? Like here, smell my fart, but I'm not going to smell them. No, you got to like really get to know your own farts first before you. been a thing like listening, listening back to my just to just me trying to like power through singing those songs. And I'm I'm I'm pitchy and I don't know the words like I'm but I'm loving I'm love. First of all, I love me. I'm just like, God dang, Doug, you're so good at music. And then also, I'm like, Wow, I love these songs so much. Same, that was my experience when you sent me it and you were like, when you like kind of apologize because I think maybe they. don't hate me for fucking up the fairy king so much. That's what I was apologizing. biggest gift that I could have gotten today as I was driving home from work to be able to listen to those and be like, damn. 26 minutes or something like that of, you know what I mean? Yeah, I laid it on you. I've listened to it twice. I listened to it in my ear earbuds, in my earbuds before I had in my ear as I was like wrapping up work and doing my sending my last few emails, just had it playing. And then I hit play again on the drive home and I had like a 28 minute drive home. So. I couldn't be more complimented. You know what? I don't need to win a Grammy, Mike. Fuck the Grammys, but I'm still going to the Grammy.