Bunker Bros (#230)

This week: a surprise visit from a ghost of missions past — and Doug's suspects a group effort to bring him back to the church. Also, the question of what you'd actually do if money wasn't the thing, Mike turns 46 and has some feelings about it, and two guys getting way too excited about a backyard concert.

Want more? Our full archive of 200+ Mormons on Mushrooms episodes — past conversations, stories, and musical adventures — now lives in on Supercast.

🎧 Join us there → mormonsonmushrooms.supercast.com

Stay informed of online and local events through the Underground Newsletter

Send a Contribution

Transcript

1:19

Moaning on a rise in the sky Tears are always falling Yeah, that's a good song. It's like an old 60s song. I I liked your idea for, well, I don't know if I want to spoil it, but the idea for the cover. I hit record when you were playing music because it was so... I tried to sneaky do it and so. uh Sorry, what were you saying? No, just you had suggested like we end this cover that we pair with Try Again to finish the... Dude, I think I was tripping pretty hard. So, like, I agree that that's a great idea. But it was last Wednesday. I was having the best day of my life, really. Do know what I mean? Yeah, Wednesdays are good days for usually. I have great Wednesdays dude and this was an all-timer and I was laying so I had taken my dog I was he and I were just hanging out and I was laying on a blanket in the park listening to music and I was on MDMA and 2CB and a little bit of weed and a little bit of weed You know? eh Yeah, I mean, you and that song, that song came on my play, you know, whatever. And I was just pictured, like I was bawling Mike, like I was like crying and I kept putting it on repeat because I was just like, this would be the greatest thing. This would be the greatest thing. So when I, when I texted you like, man, wouldn't this be the greatest thing? Like I thought I had just like split the app. Like I thought I had just turned. water into wine, you know? And so your response was like, yeah, that sounds good. And by the way, that's the proper response. But when I got that from you, I was like, he's just not seeing the vision that I'm seeing. No, by the way, my response, like how I was feeling was not as muted as that came across. And so I was really loving it. I just wasn't high. Dude, I know. Like I had this, so for me the image was we end the show with, you know, with Try Again. And then instantly just that upbeat and we're just all dancing and crying and sweating, singing about everlasting love. I was like, holy shit, people are gonna like pee their pants about this. I mean that's... Dude, no, I actually think now that you've, I forgot what song was, now you've said it again, I think this is how we have to do it. But my only worry is like, we have to learn another, like we've got a lot of songs we've got to polish on. and furthermore, that song is deceptively hard to, like it's not easy. Like I've been playing it on my guitar. It's kind of hard. with us that maybe they can play it and we can just dance to it, you oh Let the studio musicians do their thing, you That's what they're good at. should we lead with, should we start with that? know we teased it on our episode with the national parks, but maybe we should like, another plug, don't you think? June 13th, like everybody mark your calendars and get your fucking dancing shoes on and your, maybe your MDMA shoes on. Put both of those shoes on, one note a nine. I mean, I think they're both good shoes. it's yeah, so kind of uh West Valley, Utah backyard concert. June 13th, right next to a cemetery. It's going to be like. I think it might just be the night of our lives. You know, if we live, if we live forever, we might as well live forever that night. Wow, nice, nice, nice, nice poll, bud. I'm with you, yeah. So maybe we should. Maybe we should like measure out or temper our own expectations, but right now they're sky high. We can't right now. Mike and I are both on the same page that we think this is going to be the greatest night maybe in human history. Like, like I know that there's a lot of songs sung about that sort of like weird night between when Mary and Joseph got turned away at the end to when Jesus was born. I know that's like a pretty good night in the annals of history, but This one's going right up that butt. Yeah. Well, I don't know how to get my expectations lowered because we're going to have Fox playing with us. We're going to, we're bringing out um Evan on the bass. on the bass and he's our producer and he's like a musician extraordinaire. And then David on the drums, who's the best drummer, like I have, I know. Like Dave, yeah, and he'll be on a full kit. it's gonna be a party, man. We've never played with a full kit before. And then with Fox doing percussion along with it, dude, that's just going to be like, I mean, we might have some, I guess we still gotta negotiate some deals, right? But we might have some singers with us, like some backups, like not backup singers, but like singers. What'd you say? maybe even some keys too. Like it's a it's going to be a big production. As I say it I get a little nervous because Doug we're gonna. yeah, we're gonna totally pull it off We've got we got time we got the This is gonna be yeah it is, I think it's gonna be a madhouse from now until then, right? I so. it's already, I mean, I'm already feeling the, I'm already feeling the like, shit. At first it was like, we got three months, we're gonna keep practicing our songs. And I'm like, well, you know, yeah, it's coming up. It's coming up, but we're gonna do it. I think we're gonna get it, Mike. I think everything's gonna be right. I mean, did you listen to what I sent you today? I mean, is that making you feel a little stressed? No, I actually not. I actually feel like, um It's just what now we figured out the timing thing. I think you're going to groove with that click track. I think that's only thing throwing you off. You know what mean? they're slow. So I have the click track in my ear when I'm playing those ones. Or maybe it's not even in my ear. I think you can actually hear it on the recording. Right? Yeah, I could hear it. I could hear it the recording. Yeah. I think. just, I think it's too slow. It's just throwing me off. Yeah, so when we get the speed up and you're gonna drop right in and it's gonna be great. We'll get it. I am gonna, you know what, we're gonna also, we're gonna have merch. And you know what I'm planning on doing? I'm, like our Bombadilio shirts are awesome, but I'm gonna alter them a little bit, like by hand, a few of them. Like just like, I'm just gonna go in with like that kind of, you know, the fabric paint that you can buy at like Hobby Lobby or whatever, or Michael's. I'm gonna do some like Doug art on a couple of those shirts. Dude, I can't wait. It's kinda good, right? Yeah, so that's kind of what I have planned for the summer, actually. I know I've got like, I've got some trips planned for the summer, but I can't get, I can't look forward to them or get excited about them. Cause I'm just so fucking pumped on it. In fact, I was talking to my buddy, you know, and I go to bottle rock. go to that music festival every year on my motorcycle. So that's Memorial day weekend. And he and I were like getting together and chatting about it and talking about how excited we are. And I had to admit to him that, I mean, he's coming, but I had to, I had to admit to him that. I'm more excited about the June 13th show than I am about the music festival. And that's a big ask right there. Like, m yeah. I think this is like the birth of Bombadilio, this concert here. You think we're gonna come shoot now the old birth canal on this one, I think so. I'm just going to say it. I think that's going to be our birthday, which is very close to your birthday. It is. Speaking of close to birthdays, we're on the eve. It's Mike Eve, right? Mikemas. It's Mikemas Eve. usually Wednesdays aren't good days for me, but tomorrow is Wednesday and it's my birthday. Are you taking it off? I'm not. It's just a really hard time of year. mean, this has been, mean, we were recording late at night because I've just, it's, we're in the middle of all the forecast stuff going on, you know. To clarify, late at night, he's catering to just simply me because it's late at night for me. It's 8.45 PM on a Tuesday, which that's how we define late at night in my household. So Mike's being pretty kind. Yeah, I know, right? It's not good. Don't you love a good night's sleep where it's just like, holy shit. Like you said it best. I don't want to steal your thunder, Mike, but we were talking earlier. You said one of my favorite things because it's like the most. recognizable thing in the world where you went to bed at 9 30, fell into a deep sleep, kind of stirred, woke up, checked your time at 12 30. So midnight 30, you've only been sleeping for three hours. You've still got another six hours to sleep or whatever it is you sleep. And that feeling of, wow, I feel like I've been sleeping for hours. It must be close to dawn. It must be close to time to get up. And then you look and it's like midnight 30. It's like, holy shit. The Lord giveth, like the Lord works in mysterious ways. This is the greatest moment of my life. And to think all it took was to be like, no, I'm not gonna watch an episode of a show tonight or I'm not gonna, you know, I'm just gonna go to bed. And it feels like, I mean, when you're like, wow, I've got, you're feeling rested and you get to go rest some more, like double the time that you just rested. Like. it's a double lottery winner, man. It's like a scratch off that just keeps on giving, man. that scratch off, yeah. That's funny. it's been, you know, a lot of stuff's been coming up for me on this birthday. mean, at 46, I'm now closer to 60 than I am to 30, is one way to look at it, you know? Kind of like, you know, I'm getting close to 50. It's just, things are, I'm feeling older on this one, you know? I'm in the second half of my 40s. No one knows this. No one can know this. starting at age 42, I remember this specifically. When I turned 42, I started thinking, I'm closer to death than I am to birth. So every birthday I think, okay, well, I think I've crested that peak and I'm on the downside here. And I remember like on my mission, how long the first year felt and how much shorter the second year felt than the first year. And I mean, it's the same thing. I remember this like when I was eh like swimming laps when I was in swim team in high school and you'd swim like you'd be doing a set and you'd have to be doing like 20 whatever's on, you'd swim in sets. And if I was doing a set of 20 of something, man those first 10 just be like I'm never gonna be done with this thing and then you get past 10 and all of a sudden you're like wait I'm on like 16 now okay and then you cruised into the end you're right and so you think of that with life like really is all downhill from here in a way you know so funny that you say that That's so funny that you say that because that really is true I do so I do a I do a hundred push-ups a day like just each day I do a hundred push-ups, right? I don't do them all at once. Like I don't get down and do 100 push-ups Just throughout the day you just you know crank away 100 push-ups, right and so that first set I try to do 40 and It's like when I'm at 15 I'm like, there ain't no goddamn way I'm getting to 40. There's no chance of 40 happening. Like 40 pushups at once? No, no way. But then like when I'm at, when I'm at like 31, I'm like, I'm almost done. I might as well just finish. I might as well try to go to 50 maybe, you know? Yeah, that's funny. So anyway, I'm comparing, we're comparing swimming laps and doing pushups to uh Mike's birthday of getting old. So really Mike, If you're at the halfway mark, that second half is going to go really fast, man. And you're my elder, so I'm going to try to be a little more respectful of you here. mean, here comes that magical two months where you're older than me and you get to tell me what to do, you know, happens every year. um So yeah, that's gonna, that's gonna be my birthday tomorrow, but. I was talking to my wife about trying to figure out a way to just quick fly out there and surprise you. I'm just gonna ruin the surprise now. I'm not gonna be able to make it. You can see that I'm here. And plus it'd be that thing where it'd be like, I mean, I'd be so excited. I'd be so stoked. And then I'd be like, well, I probably should just quit my job because I want to hang out with Doug so bad. I'm not working till 730 again tonight. So bye. know, peace out. Dude, yeah, I was, so I was, to the point where I was looking at flights and like thinking like, I could make this happen, but I have a thing on Thursday that I have, that I can't move. So I have to, anyway, it's one of those weeks. You know what mean? Are flights really expensive now because of oil? Because we're gonna bomb Iran into oblivion? they put another two week. Dude, do you know that? Do you know the show Old Brother Work though? Yeah, I'll for that shot. So know when he's in the store trying to buy dapper Dan hair pomade? Sure, think I said I love that show. think I've seen it twice when it back in the day. well so there's a scene where they're trying to get the car fixed and the dude in the store is like, I can get you that parts, two weeks. And then they kind of talk and then George Clooney's character goes, and get me a thing of dapper Dan hair pomade. The guy goes, we don't have dapper Dan, we got fop. George Clooney's like, I don't want fop, I'm a dapper Dan man. And guy's like, okay, well can order you some dapper Dan, it's two weeks. And then George Clooney goes, well isn't this place a geographical oddity? Two weeks from everywhere, right? It's like one of my favorite lines of all cinema. And it is even, it's making a resurgence in my everyday conversations with friends and coworkers because Trump always says two weeks about everything that's happening, two weeks, right? And I always, I will just walk out to my team at work and just be like, ain't this a political oddity? Two weeks from everywhere. You And tonight, and tonight he put that, you know, he did that press release. It was like, I've been working with the, with the Pakistani government and we're going to give around two more weeks, two weeks from everywhere. Yeah. So. I didn't even verify this, but like the Pakistani whatever had posted on X but had accidentally left like the White House thing on the top or I don't know if that was real or not, but like it's real. that. It's like comedy. I mean, it's to the point where, mean, Trump is just doing reality show stuff, right? He's literally in his like tweets and, or excuse me, his truths and his, he's like, he's like, next on America. Like he's like building drama. Like he's, if it wasn't so terrifying and vulgar. and despicable, it would be comical because he's trying to do the apprentice but for being president of the United States. Well, he's trying to do the whole thing we used to do with our kids, the negotiation tactic of, that's it, Christmas is canceled, but with nuclear weapons. Yep. That's exactly right. It's funny because he values the concept of negotiation over everything. That's his thing is he's negotiating deals. Remember day one he was going to negotiate a peace treaty between Russia and Ukraine and he's going to negotiate these tariffs. He's going to negotiate better prices for Americans. The art of the deal, he wrote that book back in the 80s. He prides himself on this, he's like this negotiating guru, you know? But he's doing his negotiations very publicly right now, and he's backed by the full strength of the American military and economy. Like the two most powerful things on planet Earth, far as international geopolitical intrigue goes, they're the two most powerful things on the Earth. He's got those as his negotiating chips. And he's being made a fucking fool of by the Iranians. And I don't want to cheer for the Iranians at all, I care for their innocent civilians and people, you know? And he's being made look like a fucking chump. Like it's the thing he's most proud of, he's terrible at. Isn't it interesting how, um I mean, I just don't get it at this point. I don't get it. no, I I bought the subject, but maybe it ties into something I kind of wanted to talk about a little bit today. like, because imagine being so bad at something that you claim to be good at, that you're also getting paid or your job is to do that thing. and there's enough people that keep you in that spot. In other words, I'm feeling frustrated now because I wish, is it all just pretend, I guess, pretending? I mean, you know my take on that, Mike. Any day now, if that dude just says, Ashton Kutcher gotcha, like, punked, I was joking, everyone, I'm holding up a mirror to the farcical clown show that is American politics, and everyone should be ashamed of yourselves saying the things that I said, and I've risen to power. Doesn't that look bad on American culture? I would be like, wow, this is the greatest artist of all time. Andy Kaufman times a billion. He's a genius. That's what I would say. If he said that tomorrow, I would say, genius. I would be like, and that's actually, I get it now. It's actually believable to me. This timeline is actually, I get it. it's like, at some point, there's gonna be a season of like the rehearsal, you know, Nathan Fielder's show, or whatever, yeah, the rehearsal. And it's gonna be like, in 2015, I convinced a dog and pony showman to run for president of the United States. Like, Nathan Fielder could do a season of the rehearsal and say, yeah, this is all. I've just been orchestrating this. It's all the Trump thing is just me doing a bit. And I'd be like, man, brilliant. You guys are, you know what? I'm going to sign up double for HBO Max. Like I've, take all my money. You did it. Which now I'm by Paramount, so yeah. It's all coming together, the big plan of the reveal. Yeah. buying who and all that kind of stuff. It's starting to make sense if it's a Nathan Fielder engine. Well, with that, guess I have a question for you, Doug. I don't think this is a hard pivot. Maybe it's kind of related pivot. So I was listening to something on the way to work the other day. It was like this, I think it was a podcast or something. They were talking about AI and, you know, jobs and like the future of the economy with AI. And it was kind of like a also like a new age kind of thing of like, not new age, but just like psychologically, like you bringing out your gifts to the world, right? And, you know, the guy was talking about how uh in the new age, it's like the way, like productivity is not going to be the thing as much, but about bringing your unique gift to the world. And that unique gift is also something that you love doing more than anything. And so I was just kind of thinking, and I want to ask you the question, Doug, like if like it, if we rubbed a magic lamp and a genie popped out and he was like, look, you can make money doing anything in the world you want to do. Other than maybe sex, but maybe we can throw that in there. don't know. But like, what would that, what would that be for you? It would be pretty close to what I do now, to be honest with you, Mike. This is like one of those things where, know, I don't love bragging about this, but I love my life. Like, I love my job. You know what I mean? And I believe in... think we've talked about this before on the podcast, but I strongly disagree with that thing. Do something you love and you never work a day in your life. Because I believe that as soon as you start making money doing a thing, that thing becomes your master. And you start to resent it and it starts to feel like work, basically. But work is a fact of life. it's an agrarian society or an industrial society, it doesn't matter. Work, labor, is a fact of life. And so I like being paid. There's a question that people ask in the business world of what are you paid to do? And. So many people answer that question with like, oh, here's my job description, you know? But what I get paid to do are the things that are unpleasant to me. Like the hard parts of my job is what they're paying me for. like, it's a good thing they're paying me to do this because I wouldn't do it otherwise. Music, the podcast, travel, having adventures, doing ceremony. Like the reason I don't get paid for those things is because I do them for free anyway. disregard everything I've just said and I'd love to travel around and get paid tons of money to set an experience for people and interact with each other and dig into each other's trauma and do music and perform for people. Like I would love to do that as my full-time thing. But I also know that I would begin to resent it and it would become a job and just like any other job it would be like you have good days and bad days. At my job, have good days and bad days. why would you begin to resent it is my question. I mean, in this hypothetical, I guess in this hypothetical situation, I'm talking about what the genie comes out and says, yeah, I'm just, curious about that. it. I mean, if you're getting money for a thing, eventually you start to rely on that thing to get your money. And if you rely on that thing to get your money, then you have to do the thing that starts adding layers as to how you do that thing to please the people that are giving you the money or to continue getting the money. Like, Mike, this is... I get it. this is like, I don't think this is like, you think about like the number of actors, musicians, directors that struggle with like happiness or fulfillment or whatever. I mean, they're doing the thing that they want to do, right? They're doing their music, they're getting on stage and winning Oscars, like whatever. But they still, that happiness is elusive to them. I guess that's what, I guess that's what I'm, maybe I'm misinterpreting the exercise. what you mean in that um because yeah, if that's your livelihood and you're like, okay, great. I got a million dollar payday because I just released this movie, right? You're automatically going be like going, okay, well, where's the next million dollar payday going to come, right? um And so, but I guess where I'm going with that is that like, What's... I guess I'm speaking more pie in the sky wish than this. Not like reality. Of like... Yeah, if the money's all... If you're always going to... If you're always going to, no matter what, you know, the genie has told you that the coffers will be full no matter what you do. You'll have enough to live the life you want to live. what would you do? Okay, sorry, sorry dude, I didn't mean to make it a whole thing. liked where you went with it because I think it's important to like, think there is a tension with that and like, and this thing of like, we, do we really live in a reality where something like that is possible? Or is it like a chop wood carry water? There's always going to, we live in a world where, okay, yeah, you might want to go around the fire, play music, do that, but someone's got to like chop the wood and. and get the water so that we can all come to the fire and gather around and yeah. fair enough. I'll re-answer, we can cut out what I just said or I can just, I'll re-answer the question and then I'll ask it back to you. How does that sound? don't think we need to cut out what you said. I think it was good. All right, so if the genie said, like, your money is not an option, or money is not an object, your needs are met, you can go do whatever you wanna go do, what do you wanna go do, right? What I would want to go do is... Music is top of that list. Like I would like to travel around. I wouldn't want to be. I wouldn't want to be sedentary. Like I wouldn't want to be in one place. I would want to travel around to lots of different places and do music or um like interact with people. And here's like my real passion, Mike. I like, I like making people's day. I like making people light up when there's no perceived, there's nothing in it for me. Now, of course there's something in it for me because I get, I get the delight of like making that person's day and then not even they don't know my name. They don't get to talk with me more. They don't get to like, I love that's it. That's like, that's a secret skill of mine. And it's also a passion of mine is just to like delight people for no fucking reason. Right. So I think, I think it would be a combination of that. I, I, maybe I'm not doing a very good job of dreaming bigger here, but I think that's what my life would be is like going around, like bringing joy to people and making music. No, think that's why I think you answered the question perfectly. Because like, I was going to ask it because if it did relate to music, I was gonna ask like more specifically, right? Kind of like, okay, music, but like what part is it like, do you want to just like, would you rather because they're probably musicians who like, look, I don't want to go travel around. I don't want to do that. I want to just sit in one place, write songs. If I could just get paid money writing songs. Great. Or if I could just get if I could just get money. taking songs that other people bring me and bringing them to life. Or uh people like, no, I want to be singing front and center in the whatever Intuit Dome or like, yeah. Perfect example, so like I love songwriting, I love uh the creation part of bringing music to life, but I like performing it for people. Which is a thing that's new for me in my, well it's happened since we've been doing this podcast. Like doing music, writing music, performing music is new. But it's my favorite part of it. Like the. like the prep work, like we were just talking about the stress of like leading up to this show and like trying to get it all right and that kind of stuff. I could do without that, you know? Like, I love the energy of whether it's sitting around a campfire or sitting at somebody's house or doing one of our shows or doing a, you know, just like, or just playing, got some friends over, you're kind of playing around, goofing around or hanging out at like at the ceremonies that we've done or the weekends. That's my favorite part, man. and that combination of the adrenaline and the embarrassment and the energy and the triumph and the sharing of your... I don't really get a kick out of singing covers for people, but I do get a kick out of singing our songs to people. I guess that's my answer. Is that a good answer, I think? Yeah, all right. Let me turn it around and just send it right on back to you. Yeah, because I've been thinking about that. Obviously, that's why I read the question because I wanted to chat about it because like, obviously for me, you know, that's why I had to like exclude the sex question because like what I really love doing. Well, music and sex. guess she gets... No, but I actually wouldn't pick sex because it's like if it was like, what could you do like... That's just too much sex, you know? It's like I like, I feel like I'm a sexual being, but I don't, like that's too much sex. Whereas like too much music, I don't know if there's a thing, you know? couldn't agree more. I have a friend who will remain nameless who is like, dude, sex is top priority. Like this guy, he would fly to California tomorrow for your birthday if it meant you two going out, picking up some girls and having sex. Like sex is like his top priority and he's probably the best at sex, you know? But for me, I agree with you. like, there's a... There's having not enough sex, which I sometimes feel. And then there's like, okay, I've had enough sex, that's good. You know what I mean? I would start resenting sex if I was getting paid for it. I think I would too. And I think I would. You know, sometimes it is like, I can take it or leave it back. But sitting around a fire and like swapping songs and like, um I think, I think that's the music when I think of music and what I love to do with it. Like, well, I loved writing songs, I also, and that's why we're talking about the concert coming up because And in an environment that I think I'm really excited to play in, so in sharing our songs in that way, I agree with you on the travel thing, but when I sometimes think about it, like, maybe it's the whole fact that like 9.30 in bed sounds good to me many nights. Like the fact of going on like tour, that a lot of musicians go on tour of like you're playing big show after big show after big show and that. sounds exhausting to me at my age. I mean, it probably be fun for a summer maybe, you know, but like, but when I'm just like in the element of like, okay, what could I like, what would I just love doing is like being around a campfire in different places with different people and sharing music, swapping stories, swapping songs, you know, and Yeah, I think that's what I do. Yeah, that's, yeah, I love that. And by the way, we do get to do that quite a lot. I wish we did it more. I wish we did it more frequently. I do wish we did more. wish like based on what I'm saying, I wish I was doing this almost every night. So yes, I wish I did it more frequently. Whether it's on your back deck, whether it's here in Los Angeles, whether it's out in Hawaii with Eric, whether it's in Utah with our people, whether it's like, you know. Dude, I went and played music with Eric a week ago. Is that that was? Maybe? Do you remember? yeah. And man, talk about making me feel like I went away from that feeling like maybe I should not do music ever again. Like there's some people that are just so good at music. then I started, but then there's a, I'm not being self-deprecating here. That's really how I was feeling. But then like they have a sound, like they have a vibe, they have a sound. Do you know I mean? And it's kind of got that jungle rhythms and it's kind of got that like. medicine-y sort of like vibe, you know, and some of the other people that were going up and singing with them and that they did like medicine songs and stuff like that and I believe I mean to me mountain tribe music is my medicine. I fucking love mountain tribe music and My music is different. That's fine. My different my music is my music and it sounds a little bit different and I love it and Trying to combine it probably Isn't always gonna work the same way that you couldn't like You couldn't have the Lumineers play over the Mountain Tribe rhythms and beats. Do you know what I mean? I don't feel bad about that. I just was feeling kind of self-conscious about it last week though. I gotta be honest. But the clips you sent me, there's nothing to self-conscious about with those clips. I think you're more in your head than reality on it. appreciate it, but you know, I appreciate you saying that. And you know my struggles with being pitchy and also like staying in rhythm. Like, wait a minute, guys, this is going too fast for me or going too slow, you know, whatever. I got my own fucking rhythm. I'll figure it out. wow. Okay, well what do we gotta do to make these dreams come true, Mike? Is there a genie out there that gots a lamp that wants us to rub it? I'm no I'm not yet, but maybe there's a genie out there, but I was just thinking like I would be I Do feel I mean Making money or not making money with it. I would love to do more Plain playing music round a fire in different places with you, you know Yeah, same. I bought one of those. So one of the biggest things, know, I've got this, my yard is perfect for fire, you know? Mm-hmm, yeah. Perfect for a lot of things, your backyard. Probably perfect for sex. Probably perfect for... for sex, perfect for music. But my wife and a lot of my friends around here don't like campfire smell. I prefer, I like campfire smell, you know? Yeah, same. But to try to like compromise, I bought one of those solo stoves. Have you seen those things? um solo i don't know what is that It's like a, looks like a mini garbage can. It looks like a garbage can, but you can burn real wood in it and it's supposed to be smokeless, you know? yeah, okay. I it's a little different than hooking up a propane tank because we've done that before. know, I've done that before. We just hook a propane tank up to a fire pit and call a fire, you know? But I like burning wood. Like I like having a real fire. And so we'll see how it goes this summer with this uh solo stove. No free publicity here, but I'm going to try it out. Solo stove. I maybe have convinced one because like I've been thinking of some fire pit option. I mean, I've got the one fire pit, but it's a propane one, but it's back in the backyard. I know, but I wanted one a little closer to the house. I was either going to move that one or have something. Sometimes, you know, don't go all the way out. It's like, I want to just be like right by the house. Well, so what you could do is put the solo stove out to where your real, your fire pit right now is. And then you could move your propane one closer to the house. Cause the propane, you know, one is, there's no smoke. It's it's just burning the gas flame. This is a probably fascinating talk, Doug and Mike planning their fire pit locations. So I'm sure I, so I'm going to do a hard, I'm going to do a hard turn and tell you some stories. That cool. So I am suspicious right now, Mike, that I'm part of a people I know and love uh getting together and coordinating a plan behind my back to get me back to the church. Here's, yeah, yeah. So you ready for this? Yeah, I am. Yes, I am. Yeah. out of the clear blue sky, um this guy that was one of my companions on my mission, he and were super duper tight, super close, like, and this happens, you on a mission you become, you become like best friends with someone and then you just grow apart, like you've never seen him again, right? And. Well, yeah, because you got to know each other in a really particular circumstances. We were were bunker bros, you know what I mean? Like we were were were we're laying in a foxhole together as far as like as far as like that teenage Coming-of-age story. We're just clinging to each other trying to survive this whatever it is Anyway, we hung out after my mission for a little while and then I'm and then he moved and I moved and we kind of lost Contact and I I never joined any of my mission Facebook's cause I don't, I don't have any of this. So I'm kind of like out, I'm in the dark a little bit with like mission reunions or you know, whatnot. Anyway, out of the clear blue sky, he contacts me. He's like, Hey, I'm coming through Idaho and I'd love to see you. I'm like, dude, let's fucking do it, bro. Like I can't wait. Like, are you kidding me? 24 years. so on your, yeah, so you haven't really seen them since your mission. Well, like my wedding. Okay. So he comes up, his wife and kids, mean he's a prophet of the Mormon church probably, I don't know. I mean he's like a stalwart, you know what I mean? And he's like, he's one of the best human beings I've ever met. He's super successful, like business successful, and he speaks Chinese fluently still, and those kids all speak Chinese. Like I was feeling guilty about it. Like his kids were speaking to me in Chinese, and I was like, my kids. barely speak English, let alone Mandarin, you know? But our kids are getting along and our wives are getting along and he and I just fell right into like instant, like right back into it. Like right back into those rhythms. 24 years could have been 24 hours. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love those moments. great, great time hanging out. we, we dinner and we were at my place and we were playing music together and we were just catching up, telling old stories. Like just like the best catch up time ever checking in on other, was asking him cause he keeps in contact with a few other missionaries that we were pals with and keeps in contact with my old mission president and all that kind of stuff. And then, you know, you know, we could, we, at some point we had a call tonight and we reluctantly called it a night. Dude, not. Three days goes by and my mission president called me. My mission president who I... Keep in mind, I have not heard from my mission president for 24 years. He was at my wedding. Now, obviously this is all reflecting poorly on me, because I'm the weak link here, right? I'm not good at keeping up with people. I'm just not very good at that. But my mission president's wife called me and... Whether they know this or not this other this missionary had told me like I updated them on you and they're just so excited and they're so happy and He knows my whole thing with the church and all that kind of stuff But they called me and we we I was delighted and we spoke for You know an hour just catching up and but at some point during the conversation They said well, what do they have you doing in the church these days? Which forced me like I know they already know Because I've had, over the past 13 or 14 years, I've had people kind of delicately reach out to me and say, hey, just thinking about you. And so I know they know, but they ask that question, like what do have you doing in the church? Which forced me to have to be like, oh, I actually uh have lost contact with the church and I left the church about 13 years ago and so I'm not really doing much for the church. Maybe I'm. you know, undercover lost sheep type of deal. You know, I kind of made a joke about it and then we, yeah. OK? So I was wondering, it's a really hard. Hard way to ask the question that right and like, I don't know, there's still brings up this part of me that I don't want to disappoint people. Also, I don't want to like hurt their feelings or make them feel like, know, oh, I know better than you. And how can you guys still be in this organization? And like, so I have compassion for where they're at. And so I don't want them to feel less than. I also can see myself through their eyes too. And I know how I look to them. Like, I know no matter what, like how they view me. And so I don't know how I would answer the question. Dude, dude, you're, you're, Mike, you're nailing all of the beats that I wanted to talk about. Like you're, just so, you're, you're dead on with all of them because like I, these are like next to my parents, these are the most influential people, like as far as like father, mother figures, they're the most, I don't want to disappoint them. And I haven't cared about talking to family members or loved ones about the church for the last more than a decade. I think it's third. It's maybe longer than 13 years. It doesn't matter, however long it's been. But dude, it all came like rushing back to me where I was like, oh, I wanted to delicately like try to softly say something to them and just be like, hey, but I love you so much and don't worry about me. But I was seeing me through their eyes with my hair and my beard and my earrings, my tattoos and all that kind of stuff. And I was like, I couldn't. I couldn't help but feel their disappointment for me. You know, I was just like, I don't want you to feel like I'm, I'm, I'm so loving and I'm, and I'm, I'm Dougie bear. Like I'm huggy and lovey, know? But I was like, I felt like a deer in headlights. And so I just, I just went right into it and just said, I'm the, I'm not doing anything with the church. I left the church, you know, about 13 years ago. And, so, and then I made the joke about like, so maybe I'm deep cover law sheep program, but I don't think so. And they were with such grace. They accepted me and they still loved me. And we just kept talking and caught up. And I told them about my kids. I told them all my stuff. But I gotta be honest with you. I haven't felt that feeling for a long time. It was the feeling when you first, remember when you first couldn't go to your... Like when you first couldn't go to someone's wedding or when you first couldn't stand around one of those blessing circles, you know the weird like everyone put your left arm on someone's shoulder and put your right hand in the middle of a fucking on a kid's head. I remember when you would feel that shame of like all eyes are on me when you first left the church. It's the first time I felt that in a decade and dude, it came roaring back to me. was like, wow. Yeah, interesting, I'd like to think that, because same, like it hasn't happened to me in uh a long time. And I remember it would happen quite frequently in those first few years. And so part of me, like wondering about that question is like, would I answer it much differently now? You know, because I'd like to imagine, okay, now I've grown and, and like, I'm a different person than I was, you know, when I left the church a decade ago. um And more secure in like, life after Mormonism? Because even though I left Mormonism for great valid reasons, I was still like, wary about, but what am I stepping into? Like, am I, this is the mist of darkness here. Like, I don't know, I don't have any examples to go off of. Examples that I have seen are that people like to highlight at church or people whose lives go to shit. And like, I don't know. But I'm like, but I have to do it anyway because I have to be true to me. But now I have more like, wait, no, look at the adventures and the beauty of life in the last decade. um Despite the hardships of it, despite the separations and everything that happens. like, yeah. It's, I used to be, so I'm just thinking when you just, when you said that, I thought, how did I used to answer that question? Cause he used to get it a lot, right? I used to get it a ton. I don't get it anymore. Cause I guess I live out loud or you can see, you know, probably the, the light of Christ does not, does no longer shine from my countenance. Perhaps I don't, I don't know. I think the light of Christ still shines. I think I'm still shining bright, but like, but I used to be so in your face about it when people ask me, mean, I don't believe in the truth claims of Joseph Smith. I don't believe in the restore. Like I would like try to get people into like a debate back in the day, you know, like, oh, not only do I not believe, but I'm challenging your belief. Like I used to be that guy. But for the last, I don't know, six or seven or eight years, I've been like, I don't care. And never the tween shall meet type of deal. So all of it came rushing back. And so my answer was way different. It was like almost apologetically like. I'm not doing anything in the church. I've distanced myself instead of just being like, not only do I not believe, but why the hell are you still going, Miss President? You know, I didn't do that shit. So, I don't know, it showed, I don't know, for me it showed like, it showed like growth on my part where I was like, wow, I really am kind of like, I don't think I'll ever be over the church, but I really am just like, yeah, I don't want to offend your thing. I like you, I love you. And I believe your whole thing and I believe what you're doing is the right thing and I love you, but I don't, I'm not in there. That's what I felt. um But to that point too, because like with your companion who came to visit, because now that I'm distance from the church, when you hear someone who's highly successful, very smart, good guy, especially with everything that's happened lately with the church and the weird intersection between conservative move and MAGA, we should say that MAGA intertwining with the church. Do you have the moment of like, dude, what the fuck are you doing? Like what, how are you, how have you not like, like you've now lived your same age as I am 45, 46 years old and you haven't decided, okay, I'm going to look a little bit more into Joseph Smith's history or I'm going to look into a little bit more into this or wait. something's not adding up with Russell Nelson and now Dallin H. Oaks and like I've lived enough life in the internet age to know gay people and you know like do you have that reaction? Well no not like not like visibly but like inwardly. Yeah. And you're dead on. But I mean, you know me. Like I say this often on the podcast, but most of my people that I am with on a regular basis around here are A. Some degree of Mormon and B. Like Kina Maga or Ultra Maga or at least conservative and apologetic about Maga. Like MAGA JSON. And so I don't have that to some degree, but I also deeply have that. Sorry that I'm giving such a vague answer, but I don't have that, but I deeply have it. I deeply have it where I'm like, what? Show up better, people. What the fuck's going on here? Yeah. And I guess I realize that now because like, I think that's me in the isolation here, like out in Los Angeles. I just don't, I don't run into people from my ward, old ward very often. You know, I'm still close to family, but like we're removed out here. And so I don't, I don't see as much as like my siblings as I would like. And, you know, I was out visiting my parents, but I know. I tell her, but there, like, anyway, I don't interact as much. And so I think for me it was like, wait, but then, but uh maybe there was even something in the, I haven't seen this person in 20 years and this is in, I don't know, but it's weird. Yeah. to those roles a little bit. You have to, right? I mean, you revert back to like a couple of 21 year old boys, frat boys really, like clinging to one another and trying to teach Chinese people about Jesus and being like, wow, isn't this weird? Like let's bond. So you turn to that a little bit. And then within a couple of days, you're also I mean, I respect my first mission. Like my mission president is just one of great people of the earth, you know? And his wife is maybe even better than him. And so, you know, I know that's like a weird thing, because I know you and I have talked about your experience with your mission president who put that guilt trip on you. didn't do that to me. You know what I'm saying? And also, I'm just like, oh yeah. I'm like, oh yeah, people are still talking about what is the church, what jobs are you doing in the church? It's like I forget that part of it. Do you know I mean? Like, oh, that's a part of our conversations, but now we're gonna talk about our callings. I'm like, oh, what? You're calling? We're going to talk about our callings and also not like this is for 90 % of the time when that question is asked. It's also kind of gauging like, okay, are they in the stake presidency now or are they like? Yeah. to me about my other companion that was, I'll just say this Mike, and I don't want you to feel inferior to me and I don't want you to feel like you get to have to suck up to me from now on, but I was AP for quite a while. And so they told me about my companion who was AP with me is like a stake president right now. And I was just like, wow, I can't even imagine. I'm just like, gross, that sounds terrible for him. Anyway, the point of telling that story was I think that, and maybe this is just me being too much of a conspiracy theorist or whatever, but like I can just see the little like the Facebook group or something like that of my mission or the text thread or whatever it is, being like, let's really double down our efforts on Elder Duggee Bear there. know, let's really, we love him and we need to get him back into the church. I could see that being like a. initiative. I think so. think you might uh be on the inno and out of the love of their hearts. for sure. It's a, yeah. mean, and that's why it's. some fear, but some love, love and fear. You know, can you really separate the two? I know they go hand in hand, don't they? It's like... Anyway, if you're listening out there, if this somehow finds its way to your ears, all of my old companions and all of my old mission pals and leaders and lovers, I didn't have any lovers on my mission, I should take that statement back, if you're listening, I love you so much and for the record, I won't be coming back to the church because it just doesn't fit me. But I love you for reaching out to me. if you're listening, thank you. That's okay. End of speech. And speaking of which Doug, to kind of have this back to the beginning to our show, my parents really want to come to our concert. How does it make you feel? Oh, well, I'll still say fuck. just so you know Mike, I kinda thought this was gonna happen. When you were telling me about visiting your folks last time, I in my mind was like, I'll bet Mike's parents come to our show. Which means some of my family might be coming too. So I think. up. I'm doing two thumbs up. Let's do it. Maybe I'll invite my parents. think that'd be fucking rad. I think I am, and maybe that's why I'm thinking of Fairy King 2.0. That's the one song that I think I would be... But I don't want to like take that experience away from the other people who are there. But I also think that song's been evolving. And I'm going to keep working with it. think there's a new version that still captures all of it that's going to come through between now and then. And any other song, there's no other song we sing that I would feel any way about my parents being there in the crowd. real quick here. Yeah, I mean, I've played all of these songs for my parents. played a handful of your songs for my parents. Yeah dude, made me, by the way, that's one of the bigger compliments I've ever, I didn't tell you that, but you playing songs that I wrote for your parents, was one of the bigger compliments I've ever got, just so you know. Well, and I don't, mean, you're gonna tell me that they loved it either way, right? But just the fact that you wanted to share that with your folks really, really, really touched me quite a lot. And I hope they loved them. I hope that they did double backflips about them. Yeah, we're not, none of them are, like I was thinking about some of the ones that we cuss or curse or swear type of thing or we talk about like, you know, two country, I get a little vulgar. um The Lamanite song, I mean I've played that one for my parents, but that's not on our set list for this one. I don't know, man, I'm not ready for my parents to start connecting dots just yet. You know what I mean? About. I get that part. Yeah. about Mormons on Mushrooms. Like they know Bombadilis, what we call our band, all that kind of stuff. But like, I'm just not ready to, I'm just not ready. Yeah, and you don't have to be, but I'm just saying that I think there's a good chance my parents will be there. I love, dude, I'm so happy to hear that. I, cause you know how much I love your folks. I can't wait to, I can't wait to play and sing our little hearts out for them. That'll give us more motivation to, that'll give us more motivation to bring it. Well, let's bring it then. How about we bring it? Should we just bring it? how, we're just gonna bring it. Hey everybody, I'm gonna ask permission right now. Is it cool if Mike and I just bring it and have the best time of our life? Okay, just let me know. Also, June 13th, are we doing, what are we doing about tickets? We have a limited, I mean there's certain amount of people that can be there and we've already got some people that have kind of confirmed, so how do people let us know they wanna go? create something like on an app like Eventbrite or Partyful or something where people can RSVP too. you RSVP. So just so we can get a sense on the number of people. And we can probably use like the newsletter to send out some kind of link or, mean, we haven't used, we stopped doing the Big surprise, we stopped doing a thing that we started doing. Oh, but we have, I don't think we've given up on the newsletter. think it's just, it's something that just will ebb and flow. But I do think we, I've been meaning to reach out to you and say, let's send more newsletters. Let's also uh let people know that if they want a one of a kind Doug Art Bombadilio t-shirt, let us know. I got this box right underneath my feet right here right now. got this box of them and I'm just going to doing a little fun, cute. It might just be like a little smiley face, but I don't know. I'm going to try to get artistic about it. It's fucking perfect. I love it