Advancing Access & Equity: Challenging Employment Barriers through housing.

For National Disability Employment Awareness Month, join us for an enlightening conversation with Adith Thummalapalli, an ingenious engineer with a disability who guides us through the complex maze of housing accessibility. We examine the Americans with Disabilities Act, the Rehabilitation Act Section 504, and the Fair Housing Act, spotlighting their shortcomings when it comes to private residences. Aditha and I challenge the concept of "barrier-free" and argue against the necessity of door thresholds, showcasing how modern advances render these obstacles needless for individuals in wheelchairs.

In the second segment of our discussion, we champion the incorporation of accessibility in housing design. Discover how a simple tweak like introducing sliding pocket doors or gradual inclines can revolutionize a home's accessibility. Hear the inspiring story of a housing developer who took the initiative to include these features in their floor plans. As we draw the curtains on this episode, we turn to accessible home ownership for people with disabilities. Learn how resources like HorizontalHouses.com can aid you in this journey and why it's imperative to voice your accessibility requirements. We underline the significance of connecting with the disability community, sharing collective experiences, and raising the standard for disability home ownership. Tune in as we navigate these intricate pathways, aiming to make every house a home for all.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to AI Home Podcast, the first podcast for real estate resources and independent living strategies for the disability community. Why? Because accessibility is home. Hi, I'm Angela Fox, blogger, author and your host. Now let's begin. Thank you so much, leith, for joining us. I know we have talked about a little bit about your background, but for the audience, would you like to introduce yourself and tell us a little bit more?

Speaker 2: 0:33

about you, sure, so my name is Aditha Malappoli, I'm 25 years old and I have Duchenne muscular dystrophy, and right now I work as an engineer with my hometown in the city of Salisbury, and a lot of the work that I do revolves around permitting for any new housing development, other type of development that happens within city limits, and as part of that, a lot of what I do deals with building code regulations and DA regulations and regulations put in place by the rehab act Section 504, as well as the fair housing. So that's essentially what you're here to talk about.

Speaker 1: 1:19

That's great. I heard you say the ADA, the rehab act, the fair housing act. Why are they and when do they generally apply? Where comes new accessibility in housing?

Speaker 2: 1:32

Yeah, sure. So the ADA stands for the Americans with Disabilities Act and this was passed in 1990. And basically it's the big sort of government regulation that we have for accessibility in all aspects of life. As most people with disabilities know, life was very different before the Americans with Disabilities Act was passed and essentially it was very groundbreaking acts when it was passed and it still is. But essentially it provides the baseline for the bare minimum that people need to achieve, or the bare minimum requirements in order for something to be accessible, whether that be a public space, whether that be new type of technology, whether that be public transportation, whether it be a meeting place, whatever the ADA provides basically the bare minimum.

Speaker 2: 2:28

One thing that many people might not realize is the Americans with Disabilities Act doesn't really apply to private spaces. It mostly deals with public spaces, almost exclusively with public spaces, which can be regulated by the government. Now the issue with housing is its private property, so the ADA doesn't really stretch into that realm, which makes it extremely difficult for individuals with disabilities to find homes and find apartments and find places to live that are truly accessible. The Fair Housing Act provides a little bit more guidance as far as what can be done to make private spaces accessible or more disability-friendly. Again, it only provides the bare minimum and, as we all know, there's so much more that you can do just on the bare minimum. The way I like to think about it is all these laws and regulations. They're basically the floor, they're basically what you need to achieve, what you have to be legally compliant, but there's so much more we can do with homes and apartments and just housing in general, to make it more accessible, more friendly for individuals with all sorts of disabilities.

Speaker 1: 3:56

Although I remember when the ADA was not that passed, and my very first time of using public transportation was in Chicago, because I grew up in Indiana and I was a teenager, because while I was a kid the law didn't exist. I heard you say the Fair Housing Act is available and it's just basic and, if I recall, some of the actual language in the Fair Housing Act is like barrier three. Barrier three is not the best approach and accessibility. But watch explaining to you why that's significant and emphasizing why that's just really the basic.

Speaker 2: 4:32

Yeah, so that's a good point. You bring up the concept of barrier free. That can be a very vague term, because something that might be a quote unquote barrier for one person may not be a barrier for another. In fact, it might actually be a benefit to them. It might be something that they need. For example, for many wheelchair users, having a roll-in shower is almost a necessity, but there's many individuals who maybe need a bathtub to sit down in, or a niche bench or something, or even like a tactile reference for those with low vision or blindness. They might have difficulty navigating these spaces and they might need to feel for the edge of a bathtub to make sure that getting in safely, Whereas for a wheelchair user a bathtub might be a hindrance. So the concept of quote-unquote barrier-free is. It changes for everyone and it's unique to the person, so as a catch-all term it doesn't quite work, and that the bathtub thing is just one example, and there's many other examples that we can go into. But that's the basic idea behind why that's not the preferred terminology.

Speaker 1: 6:00

Now does FanHousing add, applying for all types of housing in all situations.

Speaker 2: 6:08

So typically it applies to rental properties.

Speaker 1: 6:11

Before you do some more.

Speaker 2: 6:13

Yes. So yes, if a complex has four housing units or more, then it needs to legally abide by the fair housing. However, that doesn't necessarily stretch to single-family homes. Let's say I wanted to get a house built. It wouldn't necessarily need to meet fair housing at regulations because it doesn't fall under that category of four housing units or more. It's a single housing unit.

Speaker 2: 6:43

And that makes it difficult because individuals who are looking for homes that meet their needs, homes that are friendly to their disability, makes it more difficult because people simply don't build homes like that. It's not something that crosses the mind of many people. For example, having a threshold at your front door is just common. It's just something that has been in construction practice for years, for decades, even centuries, just simply because of how houses are put on a concrete slab, just the very idea of that and having the living space be separated from that concrete slab. That's essentially why a threshold exists and with modern technology we no longer need to have thresholds at the front of houses. That single step out makes it really difficult for many wheelchair users to navigate, especially if you use a power chair.

Speaker 2: 7:51

Many of our power chairs can't climb that and it becomes a hazard, and it's just so ingrained in how we construct homes that people don't think twice about it. If a threshold didn't get in your way for audience members out there who may not have a disability, would you even think about it? It's not something you would consider. For example, if you lived in Florida, would you ever consider taking a winter coat with you anywhere? Probably not. It's just not something that comes up in your day-to-day life. It's difficult for you to be able to predict.

Speaker 1: 8:31

At least not to either you yourself become disabled or age. I really love the analogy of your environment that you're surrounded to. It's effective on your perception. That's the reason why I always tell people. Why disability can be a challenge is that the majority of the community members become disabled in the 40s, 50s and older, Meaning they spend half the life. So they spend half the life where they didn't need to think about it. So I really like the winter coat in the Florida analogy. It's just your environment and what you're exposed to and what you need Exactly.

Speaker 1: 9:10

I really want to circle back because such a simple concept and there's so much resistance when you mention that we no longer need that threshold. There's still a myth that we do Anywhere because we need it for flooding. It'll look bad without it. Can you go in from your perspective a little bit more detail? Why, with our technology, we no longer need a single step? Why is the solution to that?

Speaker 2: 9:40

Yeah, that's a great question. So a lot of it comes down to just modern technology that we have, for example, doors. Nowadays, many of them are floodproof. They themselves are resistant to allowing floodwaters to enter your home. Typically, the threshold was put in place so it would be a little bit higher above floodwater. So even if your foundation to your home was completely submerged, then the actual living space above would still be safe, and that's also the reason for a crawl space. Of course, in areas where there's high flooding, many houses are still built upon stilts or upon a platform. So, honestly, it just comes down to technology that we have. We have replacements for things like a threshold so that, for example, floodwater doesn't enter the house. Snow when it's melting if it's up against your door. Many of these doors are waterproof nowadays. Like if you were to get a glass door outside of your standard wooden or metal door does a very good job of providing that layer of it's not quite insulation, but that layer of protection again, something like floodwater, if we're talking about that specific example.

Speaker 1: 11:13

Great. I thank you so much for providing that clarification. While I'm talking design and design and developers myself, just from an advocacy perspective, there's always that oh, we have to do it because it could be flood. And I imagine and maybe you could correct me wrong, but I imagine probably the reason why we advanced into doors to be protecting from waters going in it's also probably from an environmental perspective, to keep the heat or cold air within the homes. I imagine that is probably the selling point why you might have these healing doors that doesn't prevent water and air from coming in. I bet that's probably this marketing behind that?

Speaker 2: 11:58

Yeah, and your assumption is spot on. The reason we have all this technology in windows and doors is simply for insulation to make sure that when you're heating your spaces, heat isn't escaping to the outside. When it's cold and when you're cooling your spaces, heat from outside isn't getting in. It reduces the stress on your HVAC system. So that's exactly one of the reasons, and if something is airtight, typically it's also watertight.

Speaker 1: 14:06

Yeah, and wouldn't it be great if, in addition to the environmental reason, that they would also say, hey, if you have this as your front door, you don't need a threshold. So we'll say that is not in addition to the environmental reasoning behind it? It might be I had done a podcast episode with Ron Collins and he invented the barcode on the credit card and so much more. And one particular thing he did is he created one of the first multiple list service for real estate out in Chicago and he didn't, primarily because he wanted to provide real estate listing in Braille. Eventually the former president of the real estate association contacted and bought that whole kind of system that comes in.

Speaker 1: 14:56

And yet today accessibility features in zero and red thin is so many other MLS listings. The only lack in accessibility options for real estate agency select In light of very much the very free, blank statement. A lot of these lists serve as just an ADA or accessibility and there's no really defending what that is for real estate agency lists. It's as a result of having real estate lists in Braille and that has been lost from the early 70s to 2020. And I really wish the disconnect of what would have happened. That's unfortunate.

Speaker 2: 15:36

It is when we see in the past innovations that we feel this could really help us Nowadays that just fall out of fashion or people stop using them or use them less and eventually they just disappear from our day lives. And was it something beneficial? It's sad to see it go.

Speaker 1: 15:57

It does. It's sad to see that the inventions and the needs of the disability community are maybe there or were there, but they're just not. They're not advertised, they're not announced and it takes very little to do that. So what other examples can you share with the audience as far as accessibility things or myths of things that when healthy developers have in their head that you have to correct and try to provide them with the resources?

Speaker 2: 16:32

Yeah, that's a great question. So one of the things that I've started recommending to them is, in my own bathroom at home, instead of having its door that swings open and shut, I have a sliding pocket door, so essentially it slides into the wall and that eliminates the face that's taken up by a door swinging into your bathroom and that can be a huge space saver and it allows for the turning radius of the wheelchair in the bathroom without having to accommodate that extra space for a door swinging in or swinging out. So that's one of the things that I certainly recommend to developers or even those who are interested in buying or having their own home custom built, like, currently, the house that I live in, which is owned by my parents. We had to have our house custom built. It's a custom built rancher, so everything is on one level and my bathroom has the sliding pocket door.

Speaker 2: 17:44

And another thing instead of having steps up to the front entrance of your house, you can have a gradual slope. So what ends up happening is, lots of times you would have a curved sidewalk going from your typically your garage area, that asphalt, to the front of your home, that sort of wraps around, and then at the end of it, there would be two or three steps up to your front porch. Instead of that, if you start at a gradual incline where the sidewalk meets the asphalt, you just continue that incline up. Eventually it becomes a zero entry incline up to the front porch of your home. And that's actually something that the developer who built our house, the contractor who built our house he saw that we had done that and he's incorporated that into one of his basic floor plans, so one of the floor plans that he just offers to customers who want a custom home built. He has about four or five, and one of them is a rancher just like ours, and this floor plan didn't exist until we came along and asked for it.

Speaker 1: 19:05

Do you know if he's separating that floor plan for just for sensibility, or is it something that is he offering for consideration?

Speaker 2: 19:14

Yeah, so it's something he's offering for consideration to everyone and just if an individual with mobility issues, such as elderly people, those with disabilities, anyone who might benefit from a ramp we mentioned that, but it's not specifically okay. Here is our quote. Unquote accessible version of this home. Okay what happens to be accessible from the get go.

Speaker 1: 19:42

Oh, that's fabulous. I love so. So let me just re-emphasize that I think this is a great win and I really want to say the fact that I'm hearing that you guys help create together a floor plan. It sounds like the developer listened to your needs and was willing to be open, which can be a struggle. I've had quite a few contractors who would raise their hand and say, hey, yeah, it provides accessibility, but they only know one or two things and not really to expand. So it's great that you had a healthy developer that was willing to listen to you and you guys played this floor plan and that he was so inspired that he is now using this For real estate agents, who oftentimes may be working with housing developers to create floor plans.

Speaker 1: 20:32

Or, if you are the consumer me you're the disabled person.

Speaker 1: 20:36

Don't just let that success story and that success floor plan to die, Trying as hey could use in the future and give them permission.

Speaker 1: 20:46

That housing developer may feel that something specialized you paid for, which is understandable, but I really want to hit home that don't just let it die on yourself that floor plan, whether you ask the housing developer to include it as part of the package, with the emphasis that don't just get this out when you see somebody who's disabled, because you can't all see all disabilities. And second of all, we really want to make this universal and so really try to close that to use it. If nothing else, post your floor plan on a Facebook webpage and a disability group, because people will still pay for floor plans to be designed with accessibility because they don't even know that. There's plenty of examples that your housing developer could really just use in and it will reduce your architectural cost if they don't do things from scratch Either way. Don't let it die and be the sole delight here that your housing developer has include. Do you know if there's any other ranched ranch forms nearby that actually use the floor plan?

Speaker 2: 21:57

Yeah, as a matter of fact, three houses over, our neighbor has the exact same floor plan as us.

Speaker 1: 22:03

Oh, that's wonderful. That means you can do it.

Speaker 2: 22:06

Well, yeah, and they also happen to have the reason they chose the floor plan, as they have elderly parents. Well, use a wheelchair. They saw the floor plan and were like, hey, someone already did this, why reinvent the wheel? It was just it works for our needs. Maybe the same thing, yeah.

Speaker 1: 22:26

Yeah, yeah, you want one of the podcast episodes I've done is not only you to YouTube channels on my Apple or my website. But I had talked about was the movie called visibility and Visibility for audience. It came out in the sixties or seventies. It was this idea that you want to focus on your house, on who will be coming and visit. So it was. It sounds like that's what kind of mind happened with the your neighbor who has elderly parents, that they're weird chairs and maybe coming to visit them and probably stay for a certain amount of time here and there and Lot of people may not think about oh, it's something that I don't need. Okay, you might not need it. Well, you might need it later in life, but okay, you don't need it now. But what about the people you know who's going to come and visit? You was, but that's what it sounds like with your neighbor, that we're close to the elderly parents.

Speaker 2: 23:24

So I'm still to get about that. Yeah, we were very Excited when that house was being built to see, hey, other people are Choosing this floor plan and those individuals themselves may not. He may not have a disability currently, but it's like you said at the beginning anyone can become part of the disability community. It's, I like to say sometimes that, being someone with a disability, it's the one minority you might become part of at any time. Yep, yep.

Speaker 1: 24:01

Yep, yep, absolutely, absolutely. And I know about you, but I'm always thrilled if there's a house I can wheel in.

Speaker 2: 24:09

I know exactly what you mean. I'm always very excited when I'm like, oh, this is a place that I can get into. Great, yeah, other options for when my friend groups on a buddy doesn't always have to come over to my house.

Speaker 1: 24:24

Yes, accessibility, how the has a has an impact beyond just where you live definitely, and if you really think about it, there's economic benefits to it too.

Speaker 2: 24:36

Larger number of individuals might look at your house. If decide to put it on the market one day, you have a whole additional set of people who might.

Speaker 1: 24:47

Consider your home. I really think and I would love your thoughts on this, because you're dealing with housing developers and I imagine the more focus on what this a law actually required or what does that local permit Required for me to do it. So it might be a little bit harder sell to say, hey, if you do these things are not technically required, you will get a return of investment, and I know from my experience that the threshold for that To get them to, to realize that there is a return of investment is this idea that it will look disabled, it will look institutional in like a hospital, or it will look ugly or no one else other than the disabled person can use it. I laugh because I'm like the disability community do not want their own Holds to look like they're in a house. The idea, then, to make it a sense what's going to be ugly?

Speaker 1: 25:48

It's just lack of creativity and really paying attention, which is a lot of the consultations I do with real estate agents and what things I talk about, about Telling a disability community I know you're not gonna make it ugly, but do you have a design forward to it? Make sure it is led in cosmetically to whatever your Style is what's your experience with trying to get How's he developers to understand there's a return of investment. What are you feeling from them?

Speaker 2: 26:20

Yeah, you make some excellent points. Yes, they are very aware of the aesthetic of the home. They want to make sure it doesn't look like you said, quote-unquote disabled and not to brag. But not our house. The front facade is multicolor brick. No other house in our neighborhood has that multicolor brick facade. Everything else is just siding and, telling you the truth, compared to the other homes that look quote-unquote normal, I think our house is more aesthetically pleasing. Personally, I think the front looks better than most of the other houses around here.

Speaker 2: 27:04

So it's not only and like you said, the these accessibility Needs can blend into the house structure. It can blend into, you know, the aesthetic, the design, the decor. You can. It doesn't need to be something that stands out and I think that's where the mindset of how we deal with places that are not friendly to the disability community. We take a very reactive approach, so something has already been in place and now we're forcing it to be accessible.

Speaker 2: 27:45

But if you look at it from the design point, if you think about the idea of universal design, where essentially, spaces are designed for anyone, regardless of ability, to be able to use people of any age, people of any ability or disability, all of that. So if you start at the drawing board with thinking about these things, it doesn't look like an add on, it doesn't look like an aphrodisiac thought. It doesn't look like, oh, this place was inaccessible and we just an ugly looking ramp on the side of it. No, you can. If you start from the design phase, you can incorporate that ramp into the design of the home. You can disguise it even if you want. You can make it a set of piece if you'd like. There's so many different ways that you can go about it All right.

Speaker 1: 28:39

I think we've had great conversation. Is there anything else that you would like to share with the audience as far as from your core meddling experience, accessibility or any last words?

Speaker 2: 28:51

Yeah, I would just say, if anyone in the audience is a developer or a contractor, certainly keep these things in mind. If anyone out there is working with a developer or a contractor to make a home more accessible or make a home set your needs, don't be afraid to ask. There's a lot of things that doesn't even cross the mind of a contractor or a developer and once you mention it they just say, oh yeah, we can do that. We can totally do that. That's not a big deal at all. So if you have an idea for making your home, or even homes of others, more accessible, just tell someone. It can honestly be as simple as that.

Speaker 1: 29:40

And ask is you don't know until you ask. Right, that old, yeah, ok, thank you all so much. Horizontalhousescom is the hub for all things related to disability home ownership. You will find my blog, this podcast, my book and how my consulting services can help real state agents or healthy developers market and tap into the largest minority group, the disability community. Please help me continue this exploration of disability home ownership by connecting through my Facebook page. Remember, sharing our collective experiences will allow us each to lower the kitchen sink but raise the bar for disability home ownership. Thank you.