Inclusive Alzheimer's Home Design: Lighting the world in Teal

This week, we take you on an enlightening journey through the world of accessibility and home design for individuals with dementia and Neurodivergent disabilities. Jonathan Katz  joins us to untangle the complexities of accessible design in kitchens and bathrooms. Together, we dig deep into the innovative solutions that can improve usability in the kitchen - from induction stoves to smart fridges.

How often do we think about the dimensions of our refrigerators? Probably not as often as we should. Listen in as Jonathan highlights the disadvantages of most current refrigerator designs, and how shallower and wider fridges could better serve those who struggle with remembering what's in their fridge. We then pivot our discussion towards accessible housing and the remarkable history of disability in Jewish tradition. Jonathan shares riveting insights about how this influences perspectives on food and the crucial role accessible public restrooms play in religious inclusion.

As we move towards the latter part of our conversation, the focus shifts to creating dementia-friendly spaces at home. Jonathan guides us through a plethora of home design features, from slip-resistant surfaces in bathrooms to the merits of single-story homes. We also explore how community design elements can provide additional benefits and how accessible housing expands options for those with disabilities. Wrapping up, Jonathan leaves us with invaluable resources for those looking to age in place or create a dementia-friendly home. Don't let this engaging discussion pass you by - join us as we bridge the gap between accessibility and home design! Below are a few of the discussed resource. More on blog on www.horizontalhouses.com

Resources: Safe and Neurospicy, Flavors of Diaspora, Work on dementia-friendly planning, Unf**k Your Habitat (for cleaning), Crip Up the Kitchen by Jules Sherred, Color Taste Texture by Matt Broberg-Moffitt, Food52’s Interview with Maegan Blau, Samantha Bigleri, AARP Livability Index, Dementia Friendly America

For transcript, click here.

Cush Pocket, a proud sponsor, is a disabled owned company that sells wheelchair bags. Get $1 off by using code Angela Fox 

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to AI Home Podcast, the first podcast for real estate resources and independent living strategies for the disability community. Why? Because accessibility is home. Hi, I'm Angela Fox, blogger, author and your host. Now let's begin. I appreciate everybody joining me today on accessibility is home, and I am sitting in my accessible bathroom because we know here and accessibility is home that accessibility in house he goes beyond the bathroom. I have a wonderful guest, jonathan. Jonathan, would you like to introduce yourself?

Speaker 2: 0:39

Hello everyone. My name is Jonathan he him pronouns. I work for the Department of Labor on disability employment policy, but I'm here in my personal capacity, outside of work, to talk about some of the work I've done on accessibility and disability in the kitchen, discussing some work on accessible bathrooms and support for people living with dementia and other age related memory disabilities. A bit about me I'm autistic and I have OCD, so I am a person with more than one disability. I live here in greater Washington with my, with my partner, david. I have degrees from the University of Chicago, oxford University and University of Maryland, and at Maryland I did a focus on age and disability in community planning. So I've spent a lot of time thinking about accessibility. I actually read Angela's awesome book my blue front door when I was doing some research on accessible housing. It's a great book. You should get it, and I'm not just saying that because I'm on her podcast, but it's also been helpful for me as I go about my own housing search.

Speaker 1: 1:43

Thank you so much, jonathan. And we had actually connected through a mutual friend, aida, who is. I recorded it in a previous episode, so go check that out.

Speaker 2: 1:54

That's awesome, he is.

Speaker 1: 1:55

He's absolutely awesome and I was able to interview him. Aida has some wonderful things with regards to permits and Fairhouse next, so please check out that episode. But when I was interviewing him, he mentioned hey, you got interview Jonathan. He's a really good resource for a lot of accessibility for kitchens and things like that. I always like to share how I find some like guests, because the disability community is not just diverse, but also a small, connected community, and so I always like to shine that out whenever I can.

Speaker 2: 2:28

Absolutely, and something I often point out to my friends who are wondering, for example, why I'm much more careful about what I post on Facebook or Twitter, which I'm refusing to call by its new name. It's that. It's also. It's not only is accessibility and disability a small community is. We all know each other's business, so it's really. It's like the smallness can be sometimes like, oh my gosh, you never know who's reading something. But it's also really great, because if you want to know something, there's nothing like sending out that fat signal in the accessibility community, because even when it's not related to accessibility, I, if you don't know it, someone either knows or will know someone who knows.

Speaker 1: 3:06

Yes, so the more the story is, you don't need to reinvent the wheel, which is part of the reason why I started this podcast for disability home ownership.

Speaker 1: 3:14

And there's a lot of people who are not, who are the able by community, not part of the disability community. When they're facing with the disability issues, they somehow feel that they need to just come up with the answers themselves. Well, the answers are not out there and so it can't be done. And that bad signal I totally agree. In fact, that's how I found it. I posted the thing I want on the Facebook groups and I said I need a guest for this and boom, it was there. I hope the bad signals. Definitely it may take two or three weeks, but it certainly does work out. So please don't reinvent the wheel.

Speaker 2: 3:52

And that's actually a really good side into a project that we're recording. This in September but it's going to be posted in November. But in this past, this August I actually released so I already had one food blog called flavors of diaspora, which is a Jew, started out as mostly Jewish food history food blog but as it became more you know, okay with both my disability identity but also my professional pursuits in accessibility, it started talking more and more about disability in the kitchen and something I realized is that there isn't a lot of good stuff out there for neurodivergent people and food safety. So neurodivergence level setting, it's a series of cognitive disabilities that affect some way how the brain works. So you have the ones that people traditionally think of autism, adhd, but things like dyslexia, dyscalculia, which is with numbers, ocd, traumatic brain injury, dementia, other cognitive disabilities and a lot of the food safety resources out there I realized aren't really great for neurodivergent people, and so I set about creating this resource which I released in August called Safe and Neurospicy, which will be linked in the show notes, and it's targeted food safety information for neurodivergent people. It's a continual work in progress. Obviously, folks send feedback, send input. I'm constantly improving on it.

Speaker 2: 5:11

But one thing I really try to focus on was not reinventing the wheel, because there are a lot of good resources about individual topics out there. And why reinvent the wheel, especially with something as important as food safety, when you can really direct folks to resources that talk about things like let's take chopping, for example how to use a knife, how to select a knife, how to use a knife if you're blind, how to use a knife if you have limited hand motion, if using a knife is not a good idea for you or if you don't have the spoons. Food safety tips on those pre-chopped vegetables, which are a big accessibility thing. And even though, while it seems, oh, I'm inventing something, it's really actually more a lot of what it was creating filler language, creating filler things, but also compiling the wheels into this one bigger machine. And I think that's something that a lot of people don't realize is that oftentimes it's not as much does this thing not exist, but it hasn't. The wheels haven't been properly aligned.

Speaker 1: 6:10

Yeah, and they haven't been framed in such a way that is easily identify these other things that you could pull together to get what you need, and that's fine.

Speaker 1: 6:20

The reason why I'm so excited about you talking about that and kitchen accessibility is not just for this episode, but every episode.

Speaker 1: 6:28

I've started at least video which has just been going on for a few months I haven't all your one, that I've been doing for the last two years, everybody. So check it out on Apple and Spotify, but the video is I always say I'm saying in my bathroom, because accessibility, housing goes beyond the bathroom, and I say that for a reason because we are dealing with accessibility, usually it's just focused on the bathroom and a lot of that is ableism, because this idea that somebody is going to what chop up those vegetables, or going to cook for you, and so you really are not going to be a chef yourself and so why bother making sure that the kitchen is accessible alone, getting into the weeds of what you're just saying for recipes and things of, can you chop that up for a particular reason, it just really does highlight if that's if you're listening and you don't think about those things, it might be because of that what we call ableism, this idea that someone else is going to be cooking for you.

Speaker 2: 7:34

And beyond that, there's a lot in there. It's like assuming that the person with the disability has the disabled person even has someone else who can cook for them. There's class and also all sorts of weird gender things in there, and then on top of where? And then it goes on top of two other things. One is that we kitchens, generally speaking, are not well designed already in the US, even for able to people, even for it's that it's a lot of times, women still do the majority of cooking in the United States because patriarchy and because of how we divide labor in this country and men are not always taught how to cook, and then, on top of which, it's often men designing kitchens, but without that cooking knowledge. So you end up, even for someone who is someone who is able to. It shows that I have to think a little bit harder to think of an able person in my life, because I know a lot of disabled people and have a lot of disabled relatives. I'm thinking about a cousin of mine who's able, and even she pointed out to me that, wow, the sink make us absolutely no sense because I can't fit a pot in it and I'm just like what a fail, what a design fail and then, on top of which, we also don't.

Speaker 2: 8:46

Something I learned when I was doing this nerd, a virgin food safety site, is we're actually really bad at teaching food safety in the United States. I learned a lot of new things while doing research for that site, particularly all of the different ways that basic foods, if you don't store them right, can make you sick. For example, it's extremely important to refrigerate cooked rice, because cooked rice is the perfect vehicle for bacteria to this particular bacteria to grow. That can make you really sick, and I was putting rice in the fridge anyway, but if you didn't realize, wow, okay, it's, this is something that if you take it to work, you need to really put it in the fridge from your lunchbox kind of level, and so it's.

Speaker 2: 9:24

And then, on top of which, the built in ableism that's in the kitchen goes on top of this, and then the resources that are out there aren't necessarily disability minded. So one, for example, is that when you look at, when you look at a lot of stuff for me, they're only giving you visual cues as to say, how do you know the meat is bad, okay, but if you're blind or low vision or many neurodivergent people have trouble processing colors, you're not going to necessarily be able to do that. So, having other sensory, sensory cues and might feel slimy, there might be an accurate, there might be an accurate smell. Those are other ways and I think that's something there is that this ableism always intersects with other messy messiness generally.

Speaker 1: 10:10

And we don't even teach like, how many days after the expiration date. Which expiration date is just the date when it's the most precious, not when it technically goes bad, because you're expected to be able to purchase whatever item that is from the grocery store and then take it home and wait for so many days. But we don't even teach that for a lot of products.

Speaker 1: 10:34

And then can you read that? Can people who have visual impairment or who are blind? The date is not even there, and that is another level of ableism. Is that, even with the date and you know how many days afterwards, what are you going to do if you can't read it?

Speaker 2: 10:51

You really can't read it Exactly, and it's also the question of design, is that a lot of times the data is, say, printed on right on top of the ingredients list. That's it's not just impossible for someone who has vision disability to read, it's just difficult to read for anyone. And then and then also it's that it's also not a hard and fast rule. I have a table in safe and error spicy of how long after the date for unopened and opened goods you can do.

Speaker 1: 11:18

I'll go a little bit now.

Speaker 2: 11:19

Quite a bit of time to research because it's actually quite finicky, because it's even for different dairy products will actually vary according to the product because some of its biology for example, yogurt, has to put safer longer than just milk. And then butter is a whole other thing. Butter is a wonder food for multiple levels, and one of is is that it stays good for a lot longer than people realize. But and then it also, and then I think another thing that this then happens is that for folks who have folks have chronic illnesses, folks who have limited spoons or shout out to the Spoonies out there I'm not a Spoonie, but no one loves lots of Spoonies If it's going to take, if you have to then go and get a new ingredient, that's that can use up the spoons that you have for cooking for that day or for those two days and having that knowledge, hey, you can actually still use this thing.

Speaker 2: 12:11

That's actually the difference between someone being able to cook something that they want and someone either not being able to cook or not being able to cook something that they want. And it's even if it's, even if nourished, it's still it's not. It's not as good of an experience and I think, in tandem with I'll, and I'll talk about this in a moment, but there are a bunch of new cookbooks out there by disabled folks for disabled folks. I think it's also important to have these sort of really thinking about the methods, while also recognizing that the institutional ableism intersects with all sorts of other things that are wrong with the way we're approaching and thinking about food.

Speaker 1: 12:47

Yeah, and we could go off ableism and to the cow comes home. I'm originally a Midwestern, but as far as like the design of a kitchen, what are some things that you have seen that are failures and what would you recommend to rectify that?

Speaker 2: 13:06

I'll go through three failures and then ways that I've seen it rectified. Okay, they were pretty common and my first one is that I disagree with a lot of other food folks who kind of claim that oh, gas is the great new thing. Firstly, gas is not new, but secondly, gas is actually not it's not even that great for cooking. But the thing is it's really dangerous for a lot of folks with disabilities because the burn risk is so high, and especially for people with cognitive disabilities any disability that affects memory there's a very high fire risk and then also it's very easy for a lot of blind and low vision people to burn themselves. It's also much trickier for many folks to use wheelchairs or mobility devices to safely navigate with. So electric can be good if there are some well-designed stoves out there.

Speaker 2: 13:55

But one thing that's really exciting is that induction is getting cheaper and induction, besides being really good for cooking, has a lot of safety features that make it a lot safer for many people with disabilities.

Speaker 2: 14:06

There's less burn risk if you're using a mobility device, especially if it's such that your face is much closer to the flame, or much closer, in this case, to the heat source. Because it's magnetic. The burner turns off when the pants are moved. So it's also much safer for someone who's blind or low vision if they're having to feel around where something is and if someone, say, living with dementia or if they have ADHD and they forgot to turn the stove off, there's that safety feature and also if there's a spill it's also much less likely to be a fire. So I think the growth of induction and also improved electric models, that's been really good. The second thing I think is also really one thing I've seen with a lot of fridges and there's a whole discourse from an environmental perspective about how fridges in the US are also just too big for environmental reasons, but a lot of fridges are really now deep. Oh, say that again.

Speaker 1: 15:02

Say that again, let me.

Speaker 2: 15:05

A lot of fridges are way too deep, and it's okay. I am 6'2 and my disabilities don't affect my mobility. I have long arms and I have issues sometimes, so it's like someone who's using a mobility device or someone who is a short stature.

Speaker 1: 15:20

I don't want to use a top shelf. Of my refrigerant Am I electric, which erases to the highest you can get, and I don't bother to use the top shelf because if the item gets pushed back, I got to get someone to get it out and go ahead. I'm sorry but it's just Exactly.

Speaker 2: 15:37

It's so easy to forget about food in there. It's actually easy to hurt yourself getting something from the fridge on top of which. It's just a. It's even beyond these risks. It's just a nasty user experience. And so one thing that's been exciting and I've been seeing this when we've been doing home viewings is that there's actually been a. There's actually been a lot more variation now in fridge design and now it is still a bit expensive and it's going down, but I think you're seeing both a lot more smaller fridges, a lot of fridges that are shallower and lower, and a lot of, and it makes it easier for so many things to reach in, to keep track of what you're doing, to know what you have, to perceive what you have to, and I think that's that that's really exciting. I think that came to freezers before fridges. Why that was, I don't know, but I think that's really exciting. And again, the benefits go beyond accessibility. It's a quote unquote curb cut effect is that it's also going to make it easier to not waste food.

Speaker 1: 16:37

Now do you know if the side you hit home? But if the small, are they by anxious game wider? Because if I'm thinking, if a shelf is more shallower, I really and this is just for cabinetry in general I rather have something that's wider and shallower, because then I can reach everything, versus what you traditionally say. It as tall as the sky can go and it's super deep and narrow.

Speaker 2: 17:01

Yes, I have seen them. I can't think of a model off the top of my head, but I have seen that, which I think is really good. And what's advantageous also if it's wider again from a neurodiversity perspective is that, for if there's someone who has trouble, it's an access buyer for them to keep track of things. It's going to be easier when they open the fridge to see everything in front of them.

Speaker 2: 17:25

This is actually something we encounter at home because I have I have autistic memory, which means I remember way too much stuff. But my partner, who's not autistic, he'll sometimes forget about things in the fridge because he doesn't see them and because I'm a bit of an avid home cook, I've got a lot of like weird specialty ingredients and sauces and things in there and then he'll be like oh, I forgot about this sliced cheese. I'm like it's not, but it's yours. I don't tend to. I don't tend to eat that many. I like sliced cheese, I just don't tend to eat it that often. So it's generally has. But something. An organization like that would benefit him, not from an accessibility perspective, but because on top of accessibility there's just all of these different quirks that people have.

Speaker 1: 18:06

Yeah, and you have smart refrigerators too now, and I've seen one where you can enter in what you put in and they'll keep track of it. It's super expensive. I thought, wow, that that's something I really need. Now, of course, you got entered into the service, not that you just put the stuff in and I was looking at it. I'm like I'm wondering from a visual perspective, if you are visually impaired, how well that platform was accessible. It's supposed to be able to talk out, but the demo didn't provide that, so it could be just fixed one issue and not the other. But hopefully, to go back where you're saying what you're saying, that the refrigerators are expanding. It's another example. I hope that gets more technology friendly for everybody, because I would love my footage. I tell me what I have in there. I will love it.

Speaker 2: 20:32

Yes, and I haven't encountered. I haven't. I've only seen news articles and things about these smart fridges. I haven't actually seen one in. In, can you say in the flesh, in the iron, in the metal for the refrigerator.

Speaker 2: 20:45

But and I think this is where it comes to thing. Number three is that a lot of kitchens are really badly ventilated, and this is a big issue. This is actually a big issue just from a safety perspective generally is that you get a lot of smoke buildup. It can get very dangerously hot, but it's especially important for people who are neurodivergent or have migraine disorders, where it can get very sensorily overwhelming. And one of the silver linings of the pandemic has been there is now more attention to ventilation than there was before, and what I'm hoping is that's also actually going to then carry over into as kitchens are designed, because you right now have ventilation over the stove, but really thinking about how there needs to be a lot more ventilation in kitchens and a lot and it needs to be and it also needs to be tied in with air purifying, because that actually that has a big impact both on the food you cook and on the sensory experience of cooking, and I think that's going to be important. And then I think there are a lot of things that go beyond house design that have gotten better in recent years.

Speaker 2: 21:47

Pre chopped vegetables are really important for people because a lot of people shame them and I'll admit as I was coming into my own disability identity. I used to shame them, but I realized they're actually really important, not just for people who can't chop or don't have the spoons to chop or who, for mental health reasons, don't want to have a knife around, but it's also. It's just such a time saver. It's chopping can be forever. I also learned in reading about this that in pre Colombian Mesoamerica you could actually buy pre chopped vegetables at many of the markets in Aztec and Maya cities and the Spanish, when they arrived in, one of their accounts was like wow, this is so cool, you can buy this. They were calling it a gourd because they were just learning what squash is. You can buy these gourds and these things that are already chopped for you.

Speaker 2: 22:34

We've been literally having this for hundreds of years and I think there's been more acceptance now, especially in the past few years, of these ingredients and also recognizing that these, when they're pre chopped, it's not a it's not a bad thing, but because they're pre chopped, they do have some different properties because they've been chopped, and more recognizing that's going to actually you're going to want to think about that when you cook. There's a new book out that I haven't read yet, but I've skimmed called the Cripp Up the Kitchen by Joel Sherrod and he does talk about using pre chopped vegetables and I'm hoping that goes beyond the disability community into just everyone, because if you're a mom with a small kid those things are great and there are lots of these accessibility things that I think are getting just more accepted now, which is really important.

Speaker 1: 23:20

I totally agree. I love things are pre chopped, especially for me. Just to get like, a real life example is I have a short statute and so even if I have countertops in my kitchen that are lower, I'm not really above as much as someone else would be standing and I can't get any higher because my knees will bump into the counter space like for a squat, like a big old squash. I love to grill but I need that chopped up and I buy that now chopped up at Whole Foods. To me that is just that goes from. I will only do it once or twice a year because it's such a Peter for me to chop it.

Speaker 2: 24:01

I know.

Speaker 1: 24:02

I know I don't have the angle and the end, even the dexterity a little bit. And versus oh, I could now buy that pre chopped. I've integrated that particular vegetable into my diet more frequently and luckily it is a little bit more expensive. But a lot of things are given. Hey, I just guess what. I will buy a particular sweep and at the end that's better for me, right, I'm good about trade offs, but I love how you brought back to Aztec, because I'm always about the history of disability, because we have a tendency to take the history disability exactly that just could in the last 50, maybe, if you're going to a revolutionary war, 100 years, but most people think it's more of a 50 to 80 year time span.

Speaker 1: 24:47

Right, and it's not. And if you all listen, I have a wonderful guest. She's an international traveler and it's for International Disability Day in December and I talk about accessible housing and how far back a particular concept of a ramp has gone, and I won't spoil it because I want everybody on December 5th I think December 5th is International Disability Day and you can listen to it towards the very end of the podcast. But I love it that you bought that up, that this accessible feature, in fact, has gone back that far, because disabilities and convenience has always been part of human nature, doesn't matter what civilization you're talking about, so I love that you bought that up.

Speaker 2: 25:35

Exactly, and I'll actually use that as a transition to bathrooms. But just before I do that, just another couple of things, is that there are a couple of resources I'll put in the show notes. One is about actually cleaning, which is a huge part of kitchen safety call, and there's there's a website around cleaning for neurodivergent people, called part of my language, unfuck your habitat. I will put that in. And then there's actually a new cookbook out by a neurodivergent author and autistic chef named Matthew Brokverk Moffitt, called Color Taste Texture, which is for people with food diversions, and a really great interview on accessible kitchen design with make and blow, and these are really great resources.

Speaker 2: 26:10

But going in with history, I think it's also important because I think we always learn a lot from history. I'm Jewish and even though there's a lot of ableism in the Jewish community there, we have a tradition going back thousands of years and it comes from the phrase in the Torah don't put a stumbling stumbling block before the blind. But there is a long tradition of discussing disability. The greatest profit in Jewish tradition, moses is said to have had a speech disability. So for one thing that's really been important in the Jewish disability world is to root it in our history, because even though there's been a lot of ableism in the Jewish community and there still is that is something that also goes way back and it even goes into questions around food. There's aspects of their exemptions to bands on cooking on the Sabbath, because if you have a disability and you're not able to do something safely with that there, you can do other things, and I think that's something where knowing that we're building on a big tradition is great.

Speaker 2: 27:08

Now with the international thing, I did a lot of my research in grad school on accessible restrooms and largely advocacy for accessible public restrooms, because even beyond accessible restrooms, we just don't have enough public restrooms in this country and it's one of the interesting things that there are a couple of countries that are just absolutely knocking it out of the water with accessible public restrooms.

Speaker 2: 27:29

Korea and Australia actually have laws that mandate certain levels of access and even though Korea has had some issues with the safety of those restrooms, especially those two countries, especially Australia, has done a lot of really interesting stuff.

Speaker 2: 27:41

Iceland has done cool things. There's been a lot of efforts in the UK and I think that's something where just observing that has been like okay, what can we learn here, because disability we often Tom's talk better than the very American context, but also in a very Western context. The day's really awesome, and one important and besides the fact that it's much easier for our folks to get clean after number two with them is that I learned in my research that toilet paper is actually not enough for some people who follow certain schools of Islamic thought or certain certain schools of Hinduism. So it's, this is about a matter of religious inclusion as well, and I think this is something where it's also people get squeamish about the bathroom and it's very much just as you were saying, just like with the kitchen, it's like the international perspective is really helpful and, mind you, I could talk about bathrooms all day.

Speaker 1: 28:35

It's such a big issue for the disability community. I'll admit, the whole idea of me having my video podcast in a bathroom did not come on my own. There's another great podcast that's just audio and it's called accessible stall. I love it. I want to give a shout. Out is on Apple and a few other and it's two individuals who have CP. They've been best friends. It's a guy and a girl and they talk about all kinds of disability stuff, but it has nothing to do with hey, cat bathrooms. In fact, they did it for a couple years and they're like hey, we might want to do an episode about accessible stalls, going out and things like that, but as a person who's in a wheelchair myself, when I saw that and realized I had nothing to do with accessible stalls, I still got that because that's part of our culture and that has really been the gateway Outside of ramps, outside of like sidewalk ramps. Sidewalk ramps and accessible bathrooms have been the gateway For accessibility and integration into the community, and so that's why you can certainly talk about that, but what when you would talk about accessible bathrooms? I think it's great.

Speaker 1: 29:54

If you want some inspiration, you don't have to look in United States. Go look at Korea Go look at a few. Dubai is also really expanding their Accessible tourism. Doesn't really it's kind?

Speaker 2: 30:06

of a strong and as well Japan as well.

Speaker 1: 30:08

Right, that's another location, but I also I was researching and I noticed I did realize that Hotels were really the first ones in America at least hotels in America were the first ones to put wall mountain Toilets, and the reason why they did that what had nothing to do with accessibility.

Speaker 1: 30:30

It's just look nicer because you don't have a peg Underneath the bowl of the toilet. And why that's important is I have a wall-mounted toilet because then my Pedals and my front wheels don't bump the peg of the toilet. That's why hand-capped bathrooms whether they're at home, a hotel or whatnot all wall mountain, but I just think that's really important.

Speaker 2: 30:55

What's really cool about wall-mounted toilets as well is that they are there also. It's actually easy. It makes the bathroom much easier to clean and for people with and without disabilities, but especially also if you have a mobility thing, it's. There's a lot. We don't have them here where we live right now and I can say that there's a lot of weird twists and turns when you're cleaning the bathroom and what's really yeah, and hotels are often.

Speaker 2: 31:17

Hotels are really interesting because there's so many different varieties of accessibility when you're traveling, and Hotels are interesting in that sometimes they don't do as well. I think that they've moved towards being very Flashy, has been problematic for nerd or virgin travelers, but on the other hand, oftentimes they lead the way with, for example, accessible rooms. With that, for example, really Thinking about how can we do this cheaply, because also, ultimately, it's a business, it's bottom line that makes it exportable. But it also gets back to a key thing with accessible restrooms is that the just even restroom availability Determines whether or not many people are able to go place or go out. I'm thinking about folks with digestive disabilities. I know a lot of folks with those where it's like when they go, they really need to go and it's it might it's gonna be more frequent and more urgent. And then, on top of which, someone would say, with a urinary Consonance disorder, which actually happens oftentimes after pregnancy for many folks, or If you're, if you have diabetes and you need to inject insulin, if you have a stomach bag and you need to change the bag, there are a lot of things in which availability of a restroom is going to be important.

Speaker 2: 32:24

I think when folks are looking at bathrooms in their own home, the first thing to always remember is that it's your home and you need to do it in a way that works for you. Yes, and think about you're gonna spend a lot of time in that bathroom, so it's even think about just getting bulbs light bulbs that work for you in there. If your light sensitive, maybe that fluorescent light that's also frequent in home bathrooms isn't a good idea for you. That's gonna be the first thing we got when we have our own places, not this bright light mandated by a landlord, but it's. Those wall mounts or toilets are great. They're cheap bidet attachments that you can get for a toilet, but it's really what's all of this. Research also means that you're able to also customize home bathrooms really easily.

Speaker 1: 33:06

Yeah, and that's one thing people ask me why would you just do a, a podcast about accessibility? And that's because the world out there is not accessible, and despite all the wonderful laws and advocacy that we have. And I tell people, but your home should be your Oasis, away from that if you're active. Listen, I'm sorry for me say this, but you hit, jonathan, when you said you can customize. And the reason why you could customize is that if you own a home Me is not subsidized housing, it's not funded by the federal government or state government, which means subsidized housing and you flat out own it and it's not a rental property you could do whatever you want pretty much, because the ADA guidelines only apply for places that are open to the public, like businesses in.

Speaker 1: 34:01

The Fair Housing Act only applies to rental property and Apartment or condominiums that have four units or more. So if you have a single family home, a town home and you are the person paying the mortgage, you could do whatever you want. And I always tell that to people because oftentimes when you get contractors, they are going to automatically think they have to follow the ADA guidelines and unless there's a lesser county or state In fact requires for private sector housing to follow these guidelines.

Speaker 1: 34:39

You could do whatever you want, and I also caution people if you're doing contracts, don't necessarily say ADA. You need to say something along that it has to be customized to meet your disability needs, because otherwise I'll go go straight to ADA or fair housing, hard requirements, and that may not be appropriate for you, and so it's really important to be mindful. I'm sorry I had to get off that tangent, but so many people feel like they can't do that, and the only thing I have to say, though whatever you do, please think of that, not just the the function of it, but also the cosmetic, because that's really is the difference between Something that adds value to your home and makes it more marketable versus something that quote quote Detracts it, because that's also a little bit of ableism that comes into play and we've talked about just here about things that have changed that is beneficial to everybody in universal design.

Speaker 1: 35:39

But you also have to make it. I hate to say, look pretty, you just do.

Speaker 2: 35:44

And it's good to make it look pretty because it's also it's your home. Make it yours, and I think don't make it a hospital.

Speaker 1: 35:50

Don't let that go in a hospital, Please no it's your oasis.

Speaker 2: 35:54

It's good, but that's something it's like. Then, coming back to the home, is it's that there's stuff to do, but it's also we still have a ways to go because, again, we're not the way we design bathrooms. It's not just a plus, but also we're not even accounting. It's doesn't even account for menstruation. It's just they're not well designed. What children like?

Speaker 1: 36:15

it's so many things it does now I had done I'm the episode's only audio about wet room concept for a bathroom as an alternative For people who have poor in wheelchairs but then have really limited space for the bathroom, and so a room is a way of of utilizing small space, but that's a mobility type focus, and you mentioned about lighting. Is there anything else in bathroom designs for neurodivergence or people who have dementia that you would like to share with the audience?

Speaker 2: 36:49

I'll use this also then as a side to the third topic, dementia. But for neurodivergent folks, I think, when it again goes back to ventilation, bathrooms do need to have ventilation according to code, because there's a lot of, as we all know, there's a lot of different smells and a lot of mold risk, but it's sometimes oftentimes deeply accentuated for many neurodivergent folks, and it's actually particularly a lot of times in my experience. I don't know if this is a scientific thing, but a lot of neurodivergent people are a lot more sensitive to mold or can sniff the mold earlier. So it's like three ventilating for three times as long keeping the window open. So just making sure that the ventilation is really as good as it can be.

Speaker 2: 37:31

One of the things I was excited about when we moved into this apartment, compared to where I was living before, is that the ventilation in the bathrooms was so much better so that I could actually turn off the fan. I had to keep the fan running the whole day when after taking a shower in my old place, because otherwise there would be more space. That's Maryland. The other thing and then this goes into dementia is that make sure the faucets are the easiest ones to use the universal design faucets that are just a push, faucets that you can use in multiple different ways, and this is for two reasons. One is that separate hot and cold faucets. Those need to, those I'll I'll just be frank those need to die. But secondly, it's much easier to actually make sure it's turned off, because something that you often see with people living with dementia is that these, what, these little things can easily be missed. And if you make it harder to miss the little things, then you won't end up with something like a huge water bell or a flood.

Speaker 2: 38:25

Is that because it's less, this less, this less, there's less to do and it's easier to see that it's off and it's obvious. It's more intuitive because that one of the things with dementia that people don't realize. So let's level set a little bit on dementia. Dementia is a series of disabilities, a series of conditions that involve the progressive loss of memory. That is usually age related. There is a term called childhood dementia. That actually refers to a separate set of conditions. That's genetic but this is age related conditions that have to do with the degeneration of processes that help with memory and executive function in the brain.

Speaker 2: 39:03

About 80% of cases of dementia are Alzheimer's, but there are a bunch of other dementias that actually don't get a lot of attention and are oftentimes much more, much quite different in their physical aspects and their mental aspects. Dementia is usually progressive. So you have people who have what's called myocognomy impairment or the beginning stages of dementia, where they're still able to, say, work and live independently in the community, and then moderately to severe, and there's a lot of different manifestations. But it usually affects the memory. It usually affects how many things, the executive function, how many things can be going on in the brain at one time, and it actually very importantly affects the gait. So it affects how people walk and mobility disabilities.

Speaker 2: 39:44

The biggest risk for many people living with dementia is falling, and dementia usually occurs after the age of 60, although for some folks, like folks with Down syndrome, it'll actually oftentimes occur much earlier. So that's dementia broadly, and what happens with in living spaces is that both memory did you remember to turn off the stove, did you remember to turn off the faucet? But also the executive function. Is it easy to be prompted to turn off the stove? Is it easy to be prompted to turn off the faucet? Are there safety checks that don't rely on someone remembering something or seeing a prompt, like that induction stove that turns off or the faucet that might automatically lower? And that's where it really starts coming in with dementia.

Speaker 1: 40:30

Great, and what other things would you recommend within the bathroom?

Speaker 2: 40:35

For bathrooms, and then I'll go into the whole house for dementia. But for bathrooms for people living with dementia, it's really especially if you're planning to age in place. Dementia is a natural part of human aging and not everyone gets it, but it's something that everyone should really reckon with. The possibility that they might get is that make sure your surfaces are non-slip or that you have some slip resistance to your surfaces, and it can even be something as simple as a bath mat. But really thinking about how things drain, because that is actually the biggest risk for many people living with dementia is the fall risk. And again, don't have things that don't rely on one queue. For example, if you're putting in a new shower faucet, say, instead of just having the red and the blue for indicating the hot or cold, pick a placard for the faucet that also has H and C, because some people living with dementia they lose the ability to process pictures before the ability to process text. And then it's similar things going to the whole house, similar things for the whole house. Really thinking about surfaces, the single story homes are really great because the stairs are. Even if someone's never had a mobility disability before, the stairs are a really dangerous place for people living with dementia In the kitchen, again, having easily distinguished surfaces if you have a white floor then a black countertop, if you have a black floor then a white countertop, that kind of thing. And again, we have now more technology that allows us to have induction stoves to turn off, that allows us to have smart fridges that beep when they're not closed. But those kind of things are really things that I'm hoping are going to be more common for people living with dementia. Three versus a little share is that four actually, sorry, I'm counting. So I've done a lot of writing, both about accessible restrooms in my efforts to get more public restrooms here in the greater Washington, but I also have done writing both for Greater Greater Washington and the American Planting Association on Planting for Dementia-Friendly Cities and that's really a 30,000 foot overview about the whole community, about the need for better volunteer transportation, about the need for persistent sidewalks and that kind of thing.

Speaker 2: 42:41

But accessible housing is a big thing and towards accessible housing and planning, there are two resources I'm going to recommend. One is the American Association of Retired People does a livability index that also measures the availability of housing but also has housing recommendations and while they're largely aimed for older adults and people living with dementia. It's actually really helpful for people with any disability at any age. I have found it helpful as an autistic person. The other thing is there's this amazing Canadian academic named Samantha Biieri and I'm going to link her professor page on the site. She's the world expert, really in dementia and planning and a lot of her work is based in Canada and she's done a lot of thinking about how do you do design that is dementia-friendly, and a lot of what she has found is stuff that really benefits people across the disability spectrum. And those are some of the broad recommendations.

Speaker 2: 43:33

And then I think just a reminder is that even if you don't develop dementia, if you're planning to age in place, it's something to prepare for, but also if you're planning to sell your house. We are living in an aging society and right now our society is over 95% of dementia. Research is just focused on cures, but we're not actually thinking about there's not a huge amount of research or efforts to actually think about how do we support people with dementia who are already here and who will continue to be here to have as high of a quality of life as and when you do that it's not just when you make your house dementia-friendly. It's not just something that makes it more soluble on a market, but also provides more options to folks who, like all of the others of us with disabilities, haven't had those options always.

Speaker 1: 44:19

And some of the things that you were sharing overlap with other disabilities as well. As far as accommodation, you're talking about the high contrast. That's very helpful for people who have visual impairments. They may not be blind and they need that high contrast. Another great resource I'd like to throw out is Living in Place Institute. Yes, I'm actually a living in place specialist. I got certified through them, and one thing that I always recommend when I go in homes to do assessments and living in place is slightly different than aging in place because it focuses on safety for children, because, believe it or not, one of the highest deaths in a home is TVs falling on children.

Speaker 1: 45:06

Yes and that is scary, it's absolutely scary. So we focus on children's safety, the disabled, and then aging in place, not just the people who will be living in the home, but people who may come and visit. So we're talking family and friends, visitors.

Speaker 1: 45:23

So it's a very holistic sort of approach. And when you mentioned about some of those things, I was like, yeah, those are things that I would recommend if I know somebody has a visual impairment. Or I also would recommend a stripe, some kind of pretty stripe along the wall, whether it's a rail or whatever. That's contrast, because if you have vertigo, you need something to focus on and you're not going to look up and you're not going to look down, and so having that stripe is half way on the wall and that helps you to guide you to safety.

Speaker 2: 45:58

And that's something new I learned, because the stripes I'd always thought of in a dementia context is it helps people navigate, it helps people follow the stripe.

Speaker 1: 46:06

Today I've learned and I think it's a good point.

Speaker 2: 46:10

Another point is that, as an autistic person, when I've done this research it's like on dementia, and particularly I've gotten to chat with Samantha Beiery, I've gotten to chat with other people who have a lot more expertise on dementia than I do, or people who have a lot more expertise on restrooms than I do is also recognizing the intersection between needs for these other disabilities and needs that I experience as an autistic person or that I might not experience but other autistic people do.

Speaker 2: 46:35

For example, a lot of people living with dementia are really noise sensitive, and so ambient noise can get very distracting or overstimulating, and so just even the materials the walls are built out of really benefit, and I'm also quite noise and heat sensitive, and that's something that it's just in that thinking it's actually made it easier for me to spot public spaces that are more accessible for me.

Speaker 2: 46:59

And then, similarly with restrooms, is that the ventilation point? Is that it's actually realizing that it's important for so many other disabilities, not just folks who are autistic, but, if you are, many blind folks have an accent, a heightened sense of smell, because smell is used as one of the ways of navigating the world, and so it's like a bathroom that is stinky for a non-blind person might sometimes be especially stinky. To a blind person it'll be the same amount of stuff, but it's because they're going to be smelling it more, because sometimes, when you lose one sense, the other senses are heightened, and I think that's what I love about doing work on. Accessibility is that, whether it's in the kitchen, with food safety, or with the bathroom, or on dementia, access is that in all of these things, I find that there's always these interconnections between different disabilities, different experiences of the world, and also these solutions not only help more than one people, but the solutions might come from the most unexpected places.

Speaker 1: 48:01

I know, and that was the Able's dog whistle is, but we can't accommodate all disabilities. Therefore, we're not, we're only going to do one thing and not realizing, as we just demonstrated, that you could do this one thing and it does accommodate more than one type of disability. And I always tell realtors, when you're working to sell a home, you are always going to make it neutral for the most people. But there's always this expectation that once that house is sold, more likely the new owner is going to make it tailored or change it for them. And I say so if you have that mindset that you're going to make this house as neutral and as open to everybody. Why isn't disability, as far as we're going to put these accessibility features, because it fits the most spectrum of disability, but knowing there may be somebody within a particular disability that will need something extra and when they buy the house they can change it.

Speaker 1: 49:11

And when I tell people that they get that, but it's just you have to point it out that you're already doing that sort of framework. So therefore, disability is no different. Not to mention it also with universal design can accommodate the able-buy community, and then when you tell them that I'm like that usually gets them over the hump.

Speaker 2: 49:33

So another thing and then I think this is a good way to actually end this is that I think something to always remember with the accessibility is that you can actually have a lot of fun with that is that with the kitchens it's like you can design, you can work on food safety and accessibility in the kitchen and still make it really cool, really stylish, really fun and sometimes for really cheap.

Speaker 2: 49:52

Even things as simple as chore wheels and whiteboards and end fans for ventilation shout out to again to Color Taste Texture, for actually discussing some neurodivergent, friendly, cheap ways to address ventilation. With restrooms, I think there's been a lot of attention now into the personalization. But even when you're getting that non-slip mat for shower, you can get something fun. And then, with dementia friendliness, I think there's been a lot of interest in how to improve navigation, how to improve things in public space but even in your own home. If you know that we've got an older relative living with dementia, you go out and get that fun carpet at Target that you can lay down on the hallway and that'll actually help that person navigate into your home.

Speaker 1: 50:35

Thank you. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. So anything else you would like to share? I?

Speaker 2: 50:41

will send. My information will be in the chat. Both of my sites Flavours, abbas for a Safe and Neurospicy also links to my writing for Greater, greater Washington and the American Planning Association. And then, just a favor for all the listeners go out and advocate for intersectionally accessible public restrooms. Really think about the kitchen as you go in and how we can just describe do kitchen designing better. And then, finally, if you want to learn more about how to support people living with dementia in your community, really I'll put this in the resources as well. Really, check out resources by Dementia Friendly America because you can learn how to be a better ally and friend to your neighbors and loved ones with dementia.

Speaker 1: 51:20

HorizontalHousescom is the hub for all things related to disability home ownership. You will find my blog, this podcast, my book and how my consulting services can help real estate agents or healthy developers market and tap into the largest minority group, the disability community. Please help me continue this exploration of disability home ownership by connecting through my Facebook page. Remember, sharing our collective experiences will allow us each to lower the kitchen sink but raise the bar with disability home ownership. Thank you.