Do you feel guilty everytime you hand over the iPad so you can get a few things done around the house? Does it drive you mad that your son would rather play Fortnite than build a fort with the neighbour’s kids? Do you fret about how much time your teen spends with social media?
Or... are you so wary of technology that you enforce a strict no-devices policy? Do you avoid people and places where your child will have access to screens and you’re starting to feel a little socially isolated?
How do we know what’s harmful and what’s helpful? What’s the best approach? How do we navigate the digital dilemmas we face in the techno age to raise healthy, happy kids and teens?
Technology isn’t going away. It’s such a huge part of our lives that it can be difficult to know where to start. We know that too much can be harmful to a child’s or adolescent’s development, but how much is too much? We also know that screens can be a helpful learning aid in a child’s education, but where’s the line?
In this episode of The Parenting Couch podcast, Rachel and Sarah talk to Dr Kristy Goodwin about how we can best manage devices with our kids. The interview is packed with lots of sensible and practical advice about how we, as parents, can be the pilot and not the passenger of the digital plane.
About Dr Kristy Goodwin
Dr Kristy Goodwin is an award-winning researcher, speaker, author, and mum of 3 on a mission to help parents and educators raise happy, healthy children and teens who thrive online and offline.
As a researcher and educator herself, she’s spent most of her professional career researching and speaking about the ways in which technology shapes children’s and teens’ wellbeing, health, and learning. She provides research-based but realistic advice and strategies to teachers and parents on how they can teach their children to use technology in productive and purposeful ways without reverting to phone bans or constant digital detoxes.
She authored the book Raising Your Child in a Digital World and has conducted numerous evaluations and research studies for the New South Wales Department of Education and Communities. Prior to becoming a speaker and consultant, she worked as an educator for 14 years with schools in both the public and private sectors. She also lectured at Macquarie University and University of Notre Dame and have completed a PhD on the impact of digital technologies.
Offers
Digital Wellbeing Checklist
The Digital Wellbeing Checklist has all the tools you need to create healthy tech habits in your home.
Whether you love technology or loathe digital devices, your kids and teens will inherit a digital future. So ‘digital amputation’ isn’t a solution. Your child or teen needs to develop healthy and helpful digital habits so that they’re not a slave to the screen. As modern parents we need to help foster our kids’ digital wellbeing and that’s exactly what this Digital Wellbeing Checklist will do. Below you’ll find 20 research-based and realistic strategies to ensure that your child’s or teen’s digital habits are healthy and not harmful… so you can finally ditch your guilt, grief and guesswork as you raise a ‘screenager’. (Nudge, nudge. Many of these tips also work for adults too.)
Switched on Parents Portal
Where empowered parents and carers come to find expert advice, simple strategies and peace of mind in the digital age.
InCharge Box
#theparentingcouch #theparentingcouchpodcast #parenting #northshoremums
Do you feel guilty everytime you hand over the iPad so you can get a few things done around the house? Does it drive you mad that your son would rather play Fortnite than build a fort with the neighbour’s kids? Do you fret about how much time your teen spends with social media?
Or... are you so wary of technology that you enforce a strict no-devices policy? Do you avoid people and places where your child will have access to screens and you’re starting to feel a little socially isolated?
How do we know what’s harmful and what’s helpful? What’s the best approach? How do we navigate the digital dilemmas we face in the techno age to raise healthy, happy kids and teens?
Technology isn’t going away. It’s such a huge part of our lives that it can be difficult to know where to start. We know that too much can be harmful to a child’s or adolescent’s development, but how much is too much? We also know that screens can be a helpful learning aid in a child’s education, but where’s the line?
In this episode of The Parenting Couch podcast, Rachel and Sarah talk to Dr Kristy Goodwin about how we can best manage devices with our kids. The interview is packed with lots of sensible and practical advice about how we, as parents, can be the pilot and not the passenger of the digital plane.
About Dr Kristy Goodwin
Dr Kristy Goodwin is an award-winning researcher, speaker, author, and mum of 3 on a mission to help parents and educators raise happy, healthy children and teens who thrive online and offline.
As a researcher and educator herself, she’s spent most of her professional career researching and speaking about the ways in which technology shapes children’s and teens’ wellbeing, health, and learning. She provides research-based but realistic advice and strategies to teachers and parents on how they can teach their children to use technology in productive and purposeful ways without reverting to phone bans or constant digital detoxes.
She authored the book Raising Your Child in a Digital World and has conducted numerous evaluations and research studies for the New South Wales Department of Education and Communities. Prior to becoming a speaker and consultant, she worked as an educator for 14 years with schools in both the public and private sectors. She also lectured at Macquarie University and University of Notre Dame and have completed a PhD on the impact of digital technologies.
Offers
Digital Wellbeing Checklist
The Digital Wellbeing Checklist has all the tools you need to create healthy tech habits in your home.
Whether you love technology or loathe digital devices, your kids and teens will inherit a digital future. So ‘digital amputation’ isn’t a solution. Your child or teen needs to develop healthy and helpful digital habits so that they’re not a slave to the screen. As modern parents we need to help foster our kids’ digital wellbeing and that’s exactly what this Digital Wellbeing Checklist will do. Below you’ll find 20 research-based and realistic strategies to ensure that your child’s or teen’s digital habits are healthy and not harmful… so you can finally ditch your guilt, grief and guesswork as you raise a ‘screenager’. (Nudge, nudge. Many of these tips also work for adults too.)
Switched on Parents Portal
Where empowered parents and carers come to find expert advice, simple strategies and peace of mind in the digital age.
InCharge Box
#theparentingcouch #theparentingcouchpodcast #parenting #northshoremums
Welcome to The Parenting Couch with Rachel Chappell and Sarah Levett. Honest conversations about what parenting is really like. Because let's be real, it can be hard, proudly brought to you by North Shore Mums.
Sarah 0:18
Hi, and welcome to another episode of the parenting couch. I'm Sarah Levett.
Rachel 0:23
And I am Rachel Chappell and today we are joined by Dr. Kristy Goodwin. She is a digital well being and performance speaker, author, researcher, and a mum of three. She is on a mission to help parents raise happy, healthy children and teens who thrive online and offline. This is a huge thing for parents, of children of all age, whether we've got four year olds or 14 year olds struggling with technology and how we manage that is a huge thing that parents are facing these days. The big question we want to answer today is how do we help our children have a healthy relationship with digital devices?
Kristy Goodwin 1:06
That's a huge question.
Rachel 1:07
It is a it is a very big question to start with. We can back up we can back up with some more specifics.
Dr Kristy Goodwin 1:14
But look, I want to say first and foremost, it is possible. I know many parents feel confused, conflicted about how to raise I call them their screenagers. And yes, the technology is evolving at exponential rates. Yes, our kids have not an addiction... but a digital obsession. I think that parents can help their children and teens navigate the digital world. And I think we need toi encourage parents to be the pilot, not the passenger of the digital plane. And if they're in the pilot seat, I say there's three B's, if we really want to drill down into making this really simple. Parents have to establish boundaries with their kids, not on them, but coming up with limits. And we have to have more nuanced conversations beyond how much screen time - how much time they're spending online is just one piece of the puzzle. It's not the only metric and not the only thing we should be concerned about. So establishing boundaries, protecting their basic needs. So making sure that their screen time isn't eroding their sleep and their opportunities to play and be physically active. And the third thing is we have to make sure that they still have pockets of boredom.
Sarah 2:19
Yes,
Rachel 2:20
They don't like being bored, do they? And as soon as they are bored, they're like, Okay, where's the where's the screen? What can I do? They don't know how to, they've lost that ability almost to play and just be imaginative
Dr Kristy Goodwin 2:32
They have. But I also want to point out we have to as adults, I mean, you usually nobody talks to anyone we read in the white space with the screen. The study was several years ago with adults and they said, Look, we want you just to sit in a room and be bored for 15 minutes now as a mum, sitting in a room solo with no one coming in and interrupting me sounds like my version of utopia. I don't think they had parents as participants because this particular study they had to terminate early, because the adult participants showed signs of psychological distress. They became agitated by being asked to be bored and idle with their thoughts for 15 minutes because there were no phones, no magazines, not even a window. They went back to the Ethics Committee. And said 'can we we get permission to do iteration two. But in iteration two, instead of subjecting the adult participants to the psychological distress of boredom, could we give them the option of administering an electric shock?' They got approval to do this. 69% of males and 24% of females gave themselves an electric shock in lieu of being bored. There was one data outlier who gave themselves 108 electric shocks in that 15 minute period.
So we all lost the boat because technology's crept into every crevice of our lives. And it is often what I call frictionless. You know, you only have to you don't even have to put in a passcode these days facial recognition, unlock your phone, and you go down the digital vortex. And we don't have to work very hard. It's instantly gratifying.
What comes into our devices is so curated and customised thanks to the Google recommendation algorithm. That means that that were served up and this is why it's so tricky for our children. They're finding it really hard to regulate their use because of this customised content. A study was recently done looking at brain scans of adolescents watching customised short form videos, ie Tik Tok videos. And what they found overwhelmingly is that the reward the addictive regions of the brain activated because you're getting served up the precise content that is tailored to your interests. So this is really a hard battle for us all to fight and there's so many other persuasive techniques that are deployed, really have been engineered to get us hooked onto these platforms.
Rachel 5:03
It's that whole "autoplay" thing, isn't it? Like you've finished one, but you're never quite done because there's something else and it's like, you're just constantly sucked into the next thing or you're getting another notification. And it's so hard to put down weight. As you say it was a problem for all of us.
Dr Kristy Goodwin 5:24
Those persuasive design techniques and no accident, you know, the fact that that autoplay feature is now the default setting on YouTube or Netflix on Stan, that autoplay feature lulls you into what I call the 'state of insufficiency' in the online world. And this is why our kids, you know, throw techno tantrums when we try to unplug them, you never feel done. You never feel like the online world is a bottomless hole. There are no stopping cues. I often say the the online world is like those beautiful infinity pools that just seem to go on and on and on.
And so there's always another level in the game you can get to there's always another DM I can check, there's always another browser, or an episode or Fortnite battle. And so for all of us, we never feel like we are done. And this is very different to say doing a Lego construction, or a jigsaw puzzle or reading a book where there was a really clear line of being finished.
You know, they notice notification bubbles are red. Red is a psychological trigger for urgency and importance and danger. And so our brain actually doesn't differentiate. And our kids are saying this, they say, 'you know I feel when I get a tick tock notification, I have to check it'. And the reason is, these notifications come to us. Our brains are biologically designed to go and forage and hunt and seek information. But the reverse is happening in the online world where information is constantly being thrown at us.
And our brain cannot differentiate between a Tik Tok notification and a tiger chasing us. So we're in this stressed state. So there are so many perils, but it's not going anywhere.
Rachel 7:18
So how do we then deal with all these things? Like Are there features and things that we can do on our devices to stop those notifications, or stop the autoplay and actually have a bit of take a bit of control back?
Dr Kristy Goodwin 7:30
Yes. And this is where I really I do a lot of work in school speaking with students, and I empower them to take back control of technology. I often ask them, Are you a slave to the screen? Or are you in control of technology? Or does it control you? And overwhelmingly, most students acknowledge that technology controls them.
We have conducted a digital wellbeing assessment, we're conducting this throughout Australia, and we've had 10s of 1000s of students respond. And overwhelmingly, many students are acknowledging that their screen habits are displacing the time they have for sleep, it is displacing the time they have for physical movement, it's displacing the time they have in natural sunlight. And this is one of the reasons we know rates of myopia, which are nearsightedness have increased because kids aren't getting the minimum 90 minutes a day in sunlight.
So what I say is to take back control, there are pragmatic things we can do - like disabling the autoplay feature. And it's tricky, and it's takes a few steps. But once it's done, hopefully they don't update things and revert it back.
Disabling my rule for notifications is three. And this applies to us to disable any non essential notifications, bundle or batch with all platforms. Now you can choose what time of the day notifications come to you. So if you're a student, and you know you're going to go down the digital rabbit hole at school, every time you get a YouTube notification or TikTok notification, bundle your notifications so they come to you maybe when you finished your homework or at one time in the day. For me as a parent, I cannot deal with the constant digital onslaught from WhatsApp notifications. Oh,
Sarah Levett 8:49
Oh I can't stand it, I can't stand it! Just want to turn them off go. And I mean, I'm in a group for work. And at one stage I did turn it off because I was like, I don't like can you all just like it started seven o'clock in the morning people were all can you do this shift? And I'm like, it's too early. It's not. And this is where I think to that boundaries. Like I'm old school in every way. But um, no. But in terms of understanding those boundaries, like I definitely was raised because you know, outside of nine to five back in the 80s and into the 90s even when there weren't mobile phones, you couldn't like you that was the great thing about that is you couldn't people weren't stepping over that with their work and everything as well. And so for me, it's like no, not before 9am and not after 5pm. But it's not the case.
Dr Kristy Goodwin 9:41
And really important I call it coming up with your call them your Digital Guardrails, and I'm doing a lot of work in the corporate space at the moment help aides to actually articulate what their digital guardrails are so that people feel like they can switch off so many adults struggling with this especially now with hardware At work, people fill you know, I can shoot off a team's message or fire off a Slack message. And if they don't reply to that I send them a text message to check that they saw the slack or the team's notification. And this bombardment is too much so you can now bundle.
So for me, I have chosen what WhatsApp messages I need. And I bundled them all at 8pm at night when I feel like I've ever had to deal with them. Yeah. And I do do that specifically on the WhatsApp app, or you do that within their main setting was sitting in your settings.
Then what I have done because I know as a parent sometimes that sometimes not all the time, there is some timely information that might need to come through. I've got one parent in each of those groups, who I've said to them, if anything really important comes through please send me an SMS. So I've got that peace of mind that FOMO you know, I'm not worried Am I gonna miss training has been moved to another location or that it's Mufti day tomorrow. So it gives us that peace of mind. So turning off notifications.
Creating a digital curfew, you know, really we should be off devices in the 60 minutes before we go to sleep. Try not to end our day with technology. You know, if we roll over and pick up our devices first thing in the morning we activate our limbic brain and so we only need to see once you know upsetting message, one stressful email for our kids, it's, you know, a nasty comment on one of their posts and their amygdala that their stress response has been activated. So there are things that we can do often. I often share it share with kids, you know, turning your phone to grayscale I'm here to vouch that Instagram is really boring in grayscale.
Sarah 11:42
What's the main difference then? Are you finding between primary school age with the technology versus the high school? I mean, it sounds to me like there isn't my daughter is nine and a half. And she's not don't get me wrong. She looks at things and stuff. But really, there's no Facebook, there's no Instagram for her. Device stuff for her will be more like watching Bluey maybe on a phone, rather than I mean. She has looked at Tik Tok, but I discourage her from it. I don't love it at this point in time, obviously, how much does that shift? Then
Dr Kristy Goodwin 12:11
It really does shift. So the the Universal Digital dilemma that parents of primary schoolers are facing is usually when do I introduce a smartphone? And how do I deal with the incessant peer pressure to be on social media platforms? You know, we've got kids who are coming home in year three and year four, saying I'm the only person in my class who's not on Tik Tok, or Snapchat or whatever it is for their digital request. So I really encourage parents... delay dumping them in the digital stream for as long as possible. I am yet to meet any parent who says, you know, I really regret delaying the introduction of a phone or social media. I hear plenty of parents say the opposite, saying I wished I'd held off I wish them give it to them. Because because
Rachel 12:54
It's hard to go back. Like I feel like I made that mistake of allowing Tik Tok to earlier and they liked it because it was mining in the early days when as Music.Cly it was miming. And they like they love the performing arts. So they had you know, they were doing that and doing little performances and they enjoyed and like I was quite creative, I think it's good. And then the app develops and it changes and they've had it for so long. And it's like, but how do I then say, sorry, you can't do that anymore. I know that there's some really bad stuff that you could potentially see it. But I've never seen that money. I've never seen anything bad. I just, 'I just follow preppy accounts'. I'm told, it's like, it's fine. You know, and I don't I'm not aware of them having seen anything horrible, but it does concern me. And I'm like, what do I do now?
Dr Kristy Goodwin 13:43
And that's the reality on any of these platforms, our kids cannot unsee things. And so our kids, you know, even if you do I know a lot of parents say look, I know they should be 13 but they're not. But I am going to give them access. But I'm going to check their DMs, and I'm going to check what they post.
What you've got no control over is what video content they've consumed. Now we've got bustable videos, and I'm hearing stories of, you know, primary school kids on sleepovers seeing a live streaming of a self harm video. Kids are seeing pornography, younger and younger. Even just sexualised content and age inappropriate content, we lose control over when we dunk them in this stream. So for primary school, it is definitely when do I give them a phone? And then usually followed by when do I give them social media access? Or how do I deal with incessant pressure to give them the technologies that a lot of their peers claim to have?
Rachel 14:42
And what is your answer then to how old how old should they be to have a phone?
Dr Kristy Goodwin 14:47
Yeah, so it is really tricky, and I'm not trying to dodge the question. It really is hard to prescribe an exact chronological age because kids all mature at different ages.
I say to parents delay it as long as possible. You know if your eight year old son came home from school one day and said, Can I have the keys to the car? I'd like to go and do burnouts. We would say 'no'. And we would say no. Like, be okay with saying no. And to hear 'they you suck, and I hate you'. Yeah. I think when we give them reasons for our 'No.' So I, I look, if I was really pressed to give an age, I think, you know, as they transition, at least to high school, that could be an age where you give them one. And again, fall back on the legal argument. You know, most social media platforms have a 13 plus age requirement
Sarah 15:37
I told my daughter the other day that it was like 18! I'm gonna, I'm gonna stand by that. So how much though Kristy does COVID have to answer for because I think like for my daughter, like she didn't have contact with her dad were separated he, she was using my phone to speak to him. So it wasn't even for being watching these it was just so they could talk. And so I was like, you're not getting a phone until, you know, way down the line. And suddenly, she's got a phone because he gave her one, which was good, because I couldn't have her using mine all the time for hours on end, because I couldn't, you know, I couldn't use my phone that says now and I've let her keep it because she's actually been really good about it. We've set parameters, agreements around it, and she's not abused it at this point in time. And I said, Okay, you can keep it as long as you know, I mean, they were also online gaming together, and I mean hours of it, because it was their only way like to connect, you know, they would do Minecraft, and they would do Roblox on the phone, you know, through there was about five weeks, but they didn't physically see each other during that last lockdown. You know, and now as a result, I've let her keep keep the phone. So I feel like COVID, you know, granted, and have to put rules and things in place. It has changed things.
Dr Kristy Goodwin 16:49
It definitely did. And I you know, I speak to so many parents who said that we adjusted recalibrated loosened our screentime rules when struck. And I think we need to remember that. Yes, there are dangers and pitfalls of our kids being online. But during the pandemic, the online world was their conduit for leisure, it was their conduit for learning, it was their conduit for connection. You know, as a mum, I couldn't have imagined homeschooling three kids attempting, shall I say. Without technology, so we've also got to remember there are positives, and it is for our kids, albeit different to us. It is their avenue for connection with their peers, you know, they are gaming and chatting and talking with their friends. So I think we have to be very careful about demonising the technology and automatically issue new and different it's, it's toxic. Because when we start to do that, we send a really powerful message to our kids that that, you know, the online world is something really special, and then it becomes forbidden fruit, and we drive the behaviour underground.
So most families that I know, experience what I colloquially refer to as the digital hangover, you sort of the post COVID, post lockdown ramifications of adjusted screen roles. So what I say to parents often is to if you want to reverse or at least modify some of your screen habits that have crept in because of COVID. Try and crowd out their screen time with other activities. And it doesn't have to always be you know, scheduled plan, you know, sporting commitments, but try and crowd it out with other things. Make small adjustments over time. I often say we've got to try and wean the screen, try and get the screen out of their hands and out of that sort of pivotal role in their life. And the easiest way to do that is to crowded out with other things.
Sarah 18:46
I've always tried to parent generally across the board and everything with moderation food screens. And is that a fair? Is that a fair way to do it? Because I feel like you know, if you like you said about forbidden fruit, so if it's not at all, they're just going to I feel like eventually when they get hold of it, like if you withhold McDonald's, say when they're little or sweets or whatever, yeah, eventually, when they get control, more control, they're gonna go crazy. I mean, I could be wrong about that. I don't that's just what I felt. It was how I was raised, I guess, with moderation, but I feel like now it's a bit different, of course, because, you know, it's different to the 80s. You know, in that respect, is that still a way to look at it? So you give them some, you know, like latitude
Dr Kristy Goodwin 19:28
So important. And in fact, a study was published just last week that he examined 6000 students across Ireland in the growing up in Ireland study similar to what we have here in Australia, the longitudinal growing up in Australia report. And what they have clearly found is that social media has what they call the Goldilocks principle. And it's this idea that if they have too much of it, then yes, it is problematic. But equally if they don't have access to social media, it has a detrimental impact on their mental wellbeing because it is their vehicle for connection and collaboration is. So I love that idea of a moderated, balanced approach. And the trick is to find the golden rock level for your kids. Because if we've got multiple kids, we know they all have different tipping points. So some kids can have, you know, half an hour on Tik Tok, and they come off and they're just as delightful, whereas their sibling, half an hour, and they come off and they're throwing a huge techno tantrum. They're aggressive moody or broody. So the trick is to find your Goldilocks level for your kids, and then enforcing those limits, you know that the establishment of boundaries is the easy part, but being consistent and enforcing them? Is the really tricky bit.
Rachel 20:45
And how do we deal with those Techno Tantrums? And how do we deal with, you know, a child who's addicted to gaming and just can't get off his device, whether it's a PlayStation or whatever? How do we manage that as parents when, you know, it's just not good for them?
Dr Kristy Goodwin 21:00
For in terms, if you are concerned that your child may be displaying some addictive behaviors, there are now trained cyber psychologists who specialise in this, so seek or have a professional. And you know, I think it's a sad reflection. But also, I guess, a good reality that we do have trained professionals in this space. So I think definitely seeking medical intervention, some other things that I say to parents to when you want them to come off the screen, because when they're on a screen, it's usually pleasurable, so their brains giving them hits of dopamine (pleasure neurotransmitter), so we need to give them first and appealing transition activity. So don't say to your child, "put your phone away and go do your maths homework". Also, don't say to them, "turn off to the PlayStation, and go and sit at the dinner table". They're not appealing transition activities. So give them a choice of two bonus points if their post screen activity involves movement, get them to transition away from the screen doing something that they like, again, so that their brains still getting that that dopamine and serotonin.
The other thing is to 'cognitive prime' them. So before you want them to switch it off, say to them "when this episode finishes... when you finish this Fortnite battle... when you get to the next level or the next stage, I'd like you to turn it off", reminding them that their time is coming to an end rather than just abruptly going in there and demanding that they switch it off. Yeah, they are throwing you know that big techno tantrum and generally speaking, boys tend to basically discharge all the cortisol because when they've been online, their sensory and their nervous system has become disregulated, especially if they've been gaming or watching rapid fire fast paced, you know, TikTok clips or YouTube clips. For our girls, it can also be an elevated arousal state, because they might have been sending a whole lot of messages amongst their friends. So their body is trying to discharge cortisol. And that's why we often get boys being physically aggressive, and girls to convey their big emotions with their words. Yeah, the look, what they're doing in that instance, is just trying to expel the cortisol that's built up. So again, can green time after screentime. 40 seconds in nature will adjust their cortisol, so get them outside, okay. And if you can physically touch them now, you might need to duck and wave but when you touch someone, they bring releases oxytocin, it is impossible for someone to stay angry with you while you're touching them. So, can you cuddle them? Can you you know, even stroke their fourarm? Can you get in as Maggie Dent talks about the tickle spot between their shoulder blades, but physically touching them? And the other really good thing is getting them moving again, because this again gives them an avenue to discharge that cortisol.
Sarah 23:44
Yeah. Wow. Great. That's just great advice about touching anyone when they're angry.
Dr Kristy Goodwin 23:52
Do not do it with your work colleagues.
Sarah 23:54
Gonna say there's a line!
Dr Kristy Goodwin 23:58
But it is true. Yeah, I can say to people when when you touch even when you're arguing with your spouse if you tell them I guarantee it is impossible for them to stay angry. I've proved I've tried this yet. Right?
Rachel 24:17
Yeah. The other thing I know a lot of parents do, and it's probably a bit of a nono is to use either technology as a reward or punishment. So they're doing something bad "that said, I'm taking your iPad away". Or "if you lay the table, then you can have half an hour on your phone or something like that". Should we be doing that?
Dr Kristy Goodwin 24:38
Look, I hate "shoulding" on parents. I think we get short on all the time. We really do. So yeah, ideal world. I encourage parents not to use technology as a reward or a punishment. And the reason is if we use technology as the digital carrot so it's the reward if you do this, then you can insert their digital quest play on the PlayStation game, use their phone What we develop are two things we put the technology on a pedestal. They already love technology, why would we offer them even more of it to entice their behaviour. And the second thing that happens when it's a reward is it develops a transactional relationship, they quickly realise what's in it for me, I'm going to back mom or dad into a no win situation when technology is a punishment tool. In 87% of cyber bullying cases, children do not go until a trusted adult, even though there are programs in primary school and secondary school that encourage kids to report cyber bullying. If there is any perceived threat of digital amputation, they will not tell a trusted adult. And many of our children don't have the brain architecture to cope with cyber bullying or any online predatory behaviour. But that perceived threat that they will be punished. So they'll have the device confiscated, there'll be banned from the platform. For them, it is akin to cutting off their oxygen supply. So they do not tell adults. So I'm not suggesting kids don't need limits, they most certainly do. And those digital borders and boundaries have to be co-established. But they are established in advance and the kids know what the parameters are, and what the consequences are. Technology as a punishment is, you know, you hit your sister, let's you know, you're you're not going to have your gaming console for a month. And so that is really hard for our kids to reconcile.
Sarah 26:22
I mean, we could talk to you for hours. Honestly, they're incredible tips that we could all spend hours and hours talking about. You've given us so much in this time with us today, and super grateful because your research, wisdom and everything is unbelievable and going to be so helpful. But if you want more of Dr Kristy raising your child in a digital world, and drkristygoodwin.com is where you can go to either get her out to talk at your school, or maybe your workplace, obviously, because it's not just for kids, it's for adults as well that need help with it. So
Dr Kristy Goodwin 27:03
None of us are immune to the digital pool. And just on that point, I really want to encourage parents, again, I'm not "shoulding" on parents, but really encourage parents to reflect on their digital habits and behaviours. You know, it's our kids have mirror neurons in their brain, meaning that they are biologically wired to imitate and copy. And it's always I always blame my partner's worst characteristics that my children have inherited. Of course, never my own! If we're barking orders about screentime, from behind our phone or behind our laptops, so we really have to try where we can to be good digital role models, because my concern is that we're missing micro moments of connection with our kids because his parents we're digitally distracted. You know, we're at swimming lessons. And yes, we're probably not maybe we are scrolling social media media, we might be doing the groceries, or we might be catching up on the 21 unread WhatsApp messages that came through in the last 15 minutes. You know, there are a whole lot of things that we could be doing and possibly are doing. But you know, swimming lessons when they finally nailed the tumble turn and they come up and their caps off and they goggles are filled with water and they look up at you to give you the thumbs up and your heads buried in your phone like all those little you know, nano seconds of connection.
I had a mum tell me she was with her daughter one day after school and she picked her up and she said, 'Mum, how much do you earn per hour?' And she said, Look, sweetie, I need to do some calculations. I'll get back to you. When she talked her daughter into bed that night. She said sweetie, I figured out my hourly rate. This is how much it is. She said why do you ask? And she turned and she said to her mum because I'd like to buy an hour of your time without your phone.
The reason it is confronting is because I'm raising my guilty hand too. Yeah. And I want to point out it's not our fault. Like our phones have been engineered to be addictive. You know, the fact that we have noticed the patients coming to us and the fact that there's a red bubble clearing how many messages there's so many techniques and tactics that have hooked all of us as parents and parenting is busy period, but parenting in the digital world has added a whole new level of complexity. And my worry is I don't want to get to the end of my children's childhood adolescence and think down on really important moments because leave distracted.
Sarah 29:27
yourself a boundary as an adult like yesterday, I took my daughter bowling and I went my phone is in my bag for the whole two games of bowling. I'm not pulling it out. And I feel free and good when I set myself that boundary of not actually love. If I didn't have a kid, I would not often not pull my phone out if I'm with a friend having a coffee or I'm doing this and that because I actually because of the time I come from the era. You know, I liked the simplicity of some of that stuff of If you can't contact me until I get a message on my answering machine there's benefits and I enjoy a lot of those benefits. Of course I do. And of course, I'm addicted at times, and I'll wake up and look at Facebook and Instagram. Sometimes at two o'clock in the morning. That's what I'm doing. So I'm not saying, but always moments when I set clear boundaries for myself, I feel free and it's the best. Yeah.
Rachel 30:24
Sometimes for me, it's like, I've actually accidentally left my phone at home. And after the panic of thinking, 'oh my gosh, no one can can contact me' it's like... 'oh my gosh, no one can contact me!' I can't like forced into this situation. And it's wonderful because yeah, it is. It is always there. It's always in your bag. And there's just some kind of pool isn't there that you just know it's there and what I need to maybe I should just quickly check I've got two minutes, standing in line at the supermarket or whatever. And I'm, yeah, I'm very, very guilty of that. And I need to control it. I know I do. And I just need to make more of an effort
Dr Kristy Goodwin 31:05
That fear you were talking about. There's a label for it's called nomophobia. People legitimately have a fear or a panic of not having their smartphone in close proximity. Yeah, that's how conditioned we have become and how digitally dependent we have become.
Sarah31:22
absolutely. And thank you so much for your time. Yeah. workable, like so much to take away from today's chat. So
Rachel 31:31
I'm actually going immediately to my phone and checking out the settings and working out what notifications I can turn off because your To Do.
Thanks for joining us for another fabulous episode of the parenting couch podcast. Don't forget you can subscribe and follow so you never miss another episode. You can also follow us on North Shore Mums. We're on Facebook. We're on Instagram and we have a website northshoremums.com.au today you so we'll see you in two weeks time. See ya.