Tips for raising girls, with Maggie Dent!

The early years of a little girl’s life will shape your daughter’s future in powerful ways. Maggie Dent, Australia’s queen of common-sense parenting, has investigated the development period from birth to age eight. 

In this podcast interview, Maggie shares some amazing insights into what we can do as parents to support our daughters and help them become more resilient and capable.

Drawing on nearly 5,000 survey results, the latest research, and her own extensive experience as an educator, counsellor, facilitator, mum and grandmother, Maggie shows us how to help our girls build an emotional and psychological base for life.

Secure foundations, Maggie argues, will help insulate our girls against anxiety and other mental health challenges as they grow into their teens and feel more capable and resilient while keeping their own authentic voice as they enter womanhood.

Live Seminar with Maggie Dent: Girlhood

Maggie Dent is will be talking at a live presentation on Monday 17 October in Wahroonga.

At this event, Maggie will show us how to help our girls build an emotional and psychological base for life. This event offers both a deeply practical guide to raising girls birth-8, as well as a celebration and intimate meditation on the state of being female, which women of all ages will relate to. 

Tickets are $40. Book online.

#theparentingcouch #theparentingcouchpodcast #parenting #northshoremums #parentingexperts #parentinginterviews

Transcript

0:02  
Welcome to The Parenting Couch with Rachel Chappell and Sarah Levett. Honest conversations about what parenting is really like. Because let's be real, it can be hard. Proudly brought to you by North Shore Mums.

0:19  Rachel
Welcome to another episode of the parenting couch Podcast. I'm Rachel Chappell. 

Sarah
And I'm Sarah Levett. And a lot of anticipation around this particular guest that we have on today, not just excitement from Rachel and I, but lots of people that we've been talking to about who we're having on and their response has been, well, it'd be like, if we were saying, you know, that we were having Keith Urban or Tom Cruise or someone like that. A bit starstruck because these are all parents, of course, that we've been telling who we've got on. Now she's known as one of Australia's most respected parenting experts, known as the Queen of Common sense parenting and author, educator, speaker, welcome to The Parenting Couch podcast, Maggie Dent. 

1:00 Maggie Dent
Thank you very, very much it is it's so funny that, you know, this wasn't a journey I kind of planned you know, that sense that I have become a bit like a virtual Auntie or a grandma or something for lots of people. And I get stopped, honest to goodness all over Australia. It used to be just by women, but now it's my blokes. They stopped me and take a photo, say my wife's gonna lose her shit when she sees this.

Thank you, you know, and that's the really important bit, isn't it? That sometimes you don't read parenting books, and you're not endlessly talking about it? How do you actually you know, get to be a parent you want to be rather than the one that comes out your mouth sometimes. So I'm, like I said, it's been a very blessed unexpected journey. And I'm, I'm absolutely stoked to be here. And I, you know, like I said, I'm right there hanging in to all of you because, you know, I was a failed parent, you know, I shouted, slammed the fingers and car doors. I left one at the pool once. So you know, I've been there. You've learned all the lessons.

And the book parade! No joke. I you know, it's like an international sport now. Yeah. And I forgot it. And I just put some pillowcases on and threw some stuff. And the boys all said it sucked. And it did suck. But it was a double suck. Because I was a high school English teacher, we're supposed to encourage reading like, so I was just like, I've been there. I failed. Yeah, I love that. 

Rachel
So how did you how did you become the Maggie Dent that we know and love today? What was sort of the journey for you? 

Maggie Dent
Well, when I went on my intensive breeding program, I didn't stay at home mum for seven half years. And I got kind of bored around the edges. Even though I was running my husband's Veterinary Hospital, and on the school board and coaching basketball, you know, I am a high energy kind of person. Then I decided when I went back teaching, I just can't do all the marking for English with full voice. I was a relief teacher. And then I basically was wandering around one day thinking, you know, how can all the kids come and talk to me, you know, that kids who are struggling, and the kids who hate school and the kids who hate life, and I thought I need to step out of the classroom and become a counsellor for them. And so I did a post grad diploma and did it when I was working with them. And it was from children. And from three, you know, up to well, you know, even 60 year olds, I've got a little child inside them. And then I would work with the with the family. And so there were times I'd run a little meaning session to help understand why teenagers can be so tricky. And they said tissue makes so much sense. And then one day, you know, actually I burned out. So I thought I'd transform a training manual I was doing with teachers into a book and that was my first book in 2002, you know, and then I thought I'd only write one and I've written nine now but

3:40  
gradual stumbling along that said, helps people maybe I'll run a seminar. And then one of my son said to me once mu, why don't you just do stand alone? Like I pay 50 bucks to go and see Kevin Bloody Wilson, why don't you just do stand alone? Like this he didn't have a clue what I did. And we all have that opportunity where parents could whoever wanted to come? Yeah. Could turn up and and I think I want you know that information sharing to be incredibly, you know, up to date with all the research. Yes, that's as boring as back post. So I wanted to make it relatable. And then I wanted it practical. And apparently that's lending. And then every now and then I just love love it when my common sense comes out. I think it's the farmer's daughter, it just go. That research might have worked for those, but it wouldn't work for boys. Yeah. So that's a really great study. How many people 20 Sorry, you know what I mean? Every now and then a voice that comes over and says yeah, I don't know if I'm gonna buy into that one. Let's question that one.

4:43  
Absolutely. I always wanted to be an ABC news reader. So when the ABC came and asked if I might be interested in a podcast, it was like the little girl inside me, you know? Like, it's not a newsreader. And then I thought I was probably only gonna be one series but we've done you know, six or five

5:00  
I'm sorry. And, you know, I'm really incredibly proud of that, because that's that free information. Do you know what I mean? salutely the information anytime you want to listen to it, two o'clock in the morning, Matthew just had one of those days that you really know, that wasn't quite how it's supposed to go.

5:16  
There is somewhere and that's, you know, it's, it's crazy. I've got people all over the world now who follow me. And we were doing webinars, because we had to, there was a couple of them that we had people from Afghanistan and Pakistan, and Chile and Nairobi. And so I like,

5:34  
hang on for the ride guys and see what

5:37  Rachel 
It's, it sounds like it's been such an organic journey, like, you know, one things led to the next it's not like, you know, when you're 16 Having your career advice, what do you want to be, I want to be a parenting expert, like, it's, you know, it's gone from teaching to counseling, to talking to books to

5:53  
I think, also, that I had a passion even as a little girl, I was an observer. And I already had a social justice kind of bent, you know, and I, so that that kind of me wanting to advocate for things that that aren't okay, you know, I do a lot of that behind the scenes, but every now and then I do it in full view as well. Because, you know, we need voices that say, Hey, you know, who made that rule?

6:19  
What we're thinking. And I think the other thing is, I have that sort of three legs on the stool. I've been the parent, I've also been the counselor, and I've also been the teacher. So I'm really mindful that we get a really good perspective around that. Because sometimes what we think teachers are doing or saying isn't actually yet. And I don't want people begging parents, because you know, most of them are absolutely busting their gut to do the best job they can. So I think, and then being the counselor, and I've worked with kids who've tried to end their lives, I've worked around abuse, and I've worked around trauma. And that's why resilience has always been one of those things. I was fascinated by how come some kids can just, you know, go a lot easier than others. And how do we build that in children? So I guess, and it's really funny, I look back at the books I wrote, you know, the first one was saving our children from our chaotic world. It wasn't even chaotic then really

7:15  
to what it was before, but it's just got more.

7:18  
And I thought for raising and I was talking about silence relaxation and mindfulness. And nobody was it wasn't even, you know, psychologists weren't even didn't have any science around it. So. And then I went into, you know, social and emotional stuff, the nurturing kids hearts and souls. I said, parents are really worried about how your child looked, not how they, you know, felt within themselves, and how could they build self efficacy? And so that was that one and then I did the resilience one each time I did it, it wasn't a thing.

7:49  
I don't know. I'm not sure how that happened. But um, yeah, so it's the same journey all the way. And I thought it was done after from boys to men. And then I have my precious little granddaughters turn off, and I keep looking at them. And I'm going, man, they're sharp, far out, they don't forget anything, do they? Because it's just mind because of that. Or supposed to talk about gender being different, which is why when I've leaped into mothering our boys, it was because I met so many mums saying I just I just find him an irritating little pup, you know, I don't even understand Why can he sit still? Why doesn't he listen? Why isn't it? Why didn't he and I thought, hang on a minute, hang on a minute here, I kind of get boys and I want to decode that for you. And I get stopped everywhere with mum saying you transform that relationship with my son from one that we didn't like each other, to being really close and within a short period of time. And that's beautiful. So I think, you know, there has to be a fire burning in my belly before I run. So I'm hoping I gotta write fiction because it takes a lot of work, you know, the research takes work, and then you work with your editors. And I'm kind of like, 67 it's time to put my feet off a bit.

9:05  Rachel
I mean, Girlhood is amazing. I've been reading it, you know, the last couple of weeks digging out, I've got three girls of my own who are 7, 10 and 12. Now, and you know, looking at it from someone who's got girls, I mean, this book is predominantly for zero to eight, those very, very early years and you kind of question yourself - 'Did I do that? Am I doing that? And that, you know, as Sarah pointed out earlier, we're talking it's like, as long as you're continuing to do them and you know, I'm learning stuff now from from this book that I like, did I do enough of that? Did I play with them and laugh did I sit and observe them enough you know, so it's wonderful. 

9:47 Maggie Dent
So I think the surprise with the book was was a surprise for me too is it took me down the rabbit holes of my own wounds. Because when I was talking about something that I a child had remembered I've counselled then my own mind went into those spaces. So, you know, that's one of the key aspects. That's a difference between, you know, counseling girls and boys is in boys can't remember much stuff like, it's their memory is totally wired differently. Even though there's no science around it, we're really clear on it, and how early girls are able to remember stuff. But we're also wired to remember negative stuff. And that's why, you know, we can struggle as women because the little girl inside us that had that really intensely emotional reaction to somebody saying, you know, "you're just fat and ugly".

10:30  
It still kind of simmers away, and it can be triggered easily. And I've had couples come up to me saying, it's almost the reverse of mothering our boys, which helped a lot of women understand their male partners. Now, it's like, they've they've learned that sometimes when my female partner gets really upset, it's often nothing I've done . She's just suddenly being triggered by something. And she doesn't need me to say, 'What's wrong with you? What the heck's what what has got you knickers in a twist?'. Like, back off, make her a cup of tea, and thinking she's gonna be able to process it and come around and tell me what it was. And don't annoy the heck out of me. It's made such a difference. So I think we've actually got Mums take it to coffee shops and saying "do you still do this people pleasing crap?". And, you know, do you know when your hairdresser is making a mess of your hair, and you let a butcher it because you don't want to hurt her feelings, because you know what it feels like when you hurt your feelings. And if I hurt her feelings, I'm not going to walk around for five days feeling bad about learning another person's feelings. Boys and men don't do that. There's layers to us that I want us to make sure when talking to our girls and saying, we do have a tendency to do this. But really, if it's something really important, you do have a voice. And it's okay to say no, you know, yeah, I think that was what, because usually they're the girls that just get bad mouth because 'Oh, you're just you know that b word, because you've stood up and said that', and we've gotta stop that.

Sarah
But you know, even as an adult Maggie, I think and I'm trying to learn not to be a people pleaser anymore. Still on a journey. I have a great therapist, though, which is amazing. And I highly recommend that. I always am an advocate for you know, having someone like that in your corner. And and doing that, that work on yourself. Because obviously, you're going to be a better parent for if you learn to understand a healthier and a happier person in general. But you know, the triggers like my I always say my daughter is my greatest teacher, because she shows up the shadow parts of myself and has done for the last 10 years almost. And, you know, I do I do think that, you know, I was listening to you talking about the resilience, and then the people pleasing. And, and it was I just absolutely loved your book, too, by the way. And it was lovely, because a lot of books in there I read when my daughter was a baby, were referenced in there. The whole Brainchild, which is an excellent book.

12:57  
But the thing is, I think that it's really tricky to parent, I always say it's really tricky to parent, without the screaming, yelling and the hitting the smacking, and they're trying to do the reasoning and the negotiating, and the giving them options and doing all the things. And then I feel like I look at my daughter, and I think I thought I did a lot of these things. And I feel like she's lacking certain resilience and like, you know, and that's I know, that's what you talk about in these great strategies in the book of, you know, and where's that line then? Because I've I've never wanted to I swung the pendulum a bit and wasn't too tough on her. But maybe I could have been a little bit tougher because maybe she could be a bit more resilient. And I don't know, I find all of that. Tricky. And like Rachel was saying, Did I do was at home? Yeah, yeah. 

13:37 Maggie
Okay, so one of the things that we're wired to do as girls, which starts really quite early, it and we don't know why we don't know if it's the estrogen or when we don't know what it is. But we compare despair, right, we start so early got looking at us ourselves through the lens of how others see us. And that's one of the reasons why we can have such fragile self esteem. And while we can struggle with our own self worth, because the world says 'this is the way you should be as a girl to be acceptable and okay. And not only is that now become more sexualized, it's become a competition'. 

So I'm going to say if you go back in traditional kinship communities, there was no competition with the women. We were together, raising all the children together, and we watched each other's back, right. And as we've become modernised, it's just one of the saddest sides of it. We know that the healthiest women have got circles of women around them, who don't stick the knife in their back, who are also honest when they need to be, but who will just hold you when the muck hits. So one of the biggest things that we don't want in the early years, and also that teenage girls. Apparently some teenage girls are now reading the book, because it's helping them understand friendships and their own big ugly feelings because it intensifies in adolescence, so absolutely, yeah. Whereas my adolescence, because I didn't even know at that point, I'm the rooster who's very confident, and no one messes with me, but I'm also an introvert.

15:06  
Which doesn't make a lot of sense when you're a teenage girl who is also moody because I didn't have a really warm relationship with my mum. So she had convinced me I was worthless and didn't deserve to be loved. And so I held that, but that's exactly what our girls feel at times within themselves, they make their worst enemy themselves. That's the biggest thing I want taken out of the book that you just be you. And if you can, once again, embrace your mum for being her. Right. We're all trying to be the best version of ourselves. But tonight doesn't always work like that. And I think, see, once again, one of the things we tend to do as women, which is why we don't fall asleep really easily.

15:47  Sarah
Maggie, what's your trick for that?

15:50  
Men just go to bed. And then we're in the sleep box and the rest? Yeah.

15:55  
Really chilled. We've done everything. We might have even had an Epsom salt bath and listen to it. You know, it's done a bit of mindful breathing. But our brain is wired. How did it go today? What else? We don't stay in the present moment. We actually go to the forward like sometimes we're laying in bed wondering if our daughter's gonna make it to university and she's three.

16:16  
We will be brain that's kind of it does it?

16:22  
Is it library tomorrow. Now? I don't know my legs need it. I've got to go and get them laser. Because seriously, this is just... okay, what am I having for dinner tomorrow night.

16:35  
The to do list. Which is what never stopped celebrates the mental load. And I keep saying to women, you know, who've got good partners, you got to sit down and write the stuff down to get your head. It's on the bench. Yeah, this is the stuff right? And can you do those five things so I can push them off my list? Because what often we do is we might say something I'm sorry. But men's memories are nowhere near as efficient as ours, right? And they'll forget stuff. Or they'll do the same thing they did last time. And we've changed our mind. Yeah, no. And you can still check in what do you want me to do? What's the thing won't help right now. So again, it's this. It's this space, again, that we are so hard on ourselves, as a mother, as a woman, as a female as a, you know, daughter, as you name it. 

And that's why when I kind of got into the book, I realised, hang on, I did 15 years of women's retreats. I know the stuff that we struggle with. But it's gotten way worse. Because we compare and despair online. There's sometimes around school pickups and car parks. It's not it's not as warm and friendly as I would say it was when I was actually in my breeding program. So yeah, well, it has kind of made you more in competition with other women. It's unhealthy, and then our girls learned that fast. So again, that's why I wanted to have this conversation that says that every one of us is a one off every daughter. 

And that's why I say you've got a puzzle that you have to work out. Who is she really? What is she brought in through her ancestral line? What kind of temperament or predispositions does she have to adversity? What gifts has she got hiding inside her? When you start looking at some of the strengths and help your daughter to recognise you know, you do struggle with these? Yes, you do have dyslexia. But look how amazing you are at this and lives and look out, you know, look at the life we live, how great we are together and look at all your cousin you name it. So what we've done is become a deaf, deficit focused kind of society. We're looking at everything that's wrong with people, our children, and then we can fix that. But what we know is that strength based focusing is the best way for us to build an authentic platform within all of us that you know, what is our strengths because I can tell you now, one of mine is not tidiness and I also leave doors and cupboards overnight all the time. And I have to remind him of his annoying traits that he you know, unpack the dishwasher and leave the saucepan on the bench, while the drawer for the saucepan is just there with it. 

We're not all perfect humans and our girls need to know we're not perfect, but we're going to focus on building your strengths and focus on your strengths being something that you celebrate, you know, that hope having taste you know, like, not taste distaste, but you know that clothes go well, you know, they've got a way out. I don't have Yeah, style was about 50 this style one that's it. My 17 year old niece said to me one day 'Auntie Mag, you dress so badly, we're gonna go shopping to sort out how badly dress right?' Yes. And for a while I had pretend to photograph to like kind of got it because it just and I even you know in my house, it's just not one of my things, but I have a little granddaughter man is that her thing and she's  two and a half to three. Right? And just loves loves to put together an outfit. Cycling. Lastly, oh my god, don't walk into like Cotton On to buy a windcheater because you can't get out for an hour.

20:18  
Yeah, and we got to work together and work out who's the puzzle of our daughter have family and the systems around our girls create that strengths. And there's some fabulous things happening today. And that is that our girls are hearing kind of empowered messages more often. Their mums are reading stories to them about powerful, gorgeous girls. And you know, towards the end of the book, you'll notice that I had one of my granddaughter's with me, and she was five and she wanted some music. She was painting on stones at the front of my house, to have some music plays nanny, and I said, Yeah, sure. What do you want? And she said, I want 'Roar' by Katy Perry. She knows every word to the song at 5 years. Right now, those songs weren't in my space, right? So I'd never heard songs that were empowering like that. And that's exactly what I thought. I texted one of my nieces in WA and said, you know, and she said, are both my girls know every word to that, too. So can you see again, right there? Yeah, more seeds of potential. However, if we look what happened kind of last year with Chanel Contos, and you know, the whole Grace Tame and Brittany Higgins.

21:27  
something's not flowing through to when they're adolescents. And we really have to keep having the conversations of where does that get lost? Where did they not have a voice that says this? Does not? This is not right. For me? This is No.

21:42  
Because again, saying no, has been culturally something that women are not supposed to do with supposed to say yes, with a sweet smile and do it.

21:52  
Right. So we've got a lot of work to do. And it's you know, it's great that you say about, I made sure when my daughter was little that we didn't use the word perfect. In fact, I call it a swear word in our house, and we don't use it like, and she'll sometimes say, sorry, Mummy, I said the P word night? Well, it's all right, you know, I am perfect, darling. No, I'm joking. And I think, you know, Rachel and I were also talking about that before the interview started. And, you know, I found it tricky at times. I'm quite extroverted, you know, I have a background in the entertainment industry, and all of these things, and I've gone out and out, you know, when I was 14, wanted to go on an exchange program, get on a plane, and I find my daughter is probably a bit more, I mean, I think I'm more probably, you know, the, you know, a mix of introversion and extraversion. Now I understand myself a bit better. And I was pushed to be, you know, by my mum, but I get that now, but I've struggled a bit, because she stands back a bit more, she can be a bit more cautious, maybe not as resilient. And that can be really triggering, and

22:51  
you're saying about celebrating her and love her unconditionally, and look at her strengths. And, you know, separate her from me, you know, I think that that's, that can be hard. Um, I feel guilty for that. I feel bad that at times, Lauren, you more confident, why don't you go and do
that, in particular.

23:13  
When I dropped the manuscript to the editor, lady, she sort of said, I look, she went on a whole journey with how she raised her daughter and her own journey as a girl. And she said, I think you need to put a chapter in for mums and daughters, because of course, I couldn't identify with that other than the fact that mine wasn't a good one. And so I went around and asked quite a few, you know, of women, what, and what came back so much was I just don't want to mock her up. So it's like my responsibility. It's like, we take on such a big responsibility for a daughter almost more so than we do a son. Because we know where it can go wrong, right? And we know how cruel that that will convey for girls. We know what friendship dramas are in front of her, we know how she's going to struggle with big feelings at times that she won't make sense of. And we do want to just wrap them up, don't we enter? God, I'm going to check some of that stuff. But you're exactly right.

24:05  
That it's how do we walk them through those things, knowing that they've got you to fall back on.

24:11  
And, you know, one of the things that girls told me is that they wouldn't go to their mum when they had friendship dramas as a teen because mum stepped in and made a big scene about something that wasn't really that big when they were in year two or year three. Right? It's a challenging space. And then I know lots of mums who have been totally engaged and mums and then when the teenage years come back, and there's often that need for go to push a mum back a bit, you know, it's not the coffee shops and chats where I thought we've got to have as you know, she's pushed me out what's the what the and I'm going it's developmentally quite normal because she has to become a woman. She can't do that with you kind of right there. And sometimes when I make choices, as she steps into her own sexual awakening or into her own, you know, what do I want to do at school like mum and dad aren't going to be discipline

25:00  
pointed with, you know, the number of girls I met who chose things at school because mum wanted them to do it couldn't deal with my mum's disappointment, if I didn't do it, and, you know, it's it, whereas most boys probably wouldn't even know about it. But can you see again, they're over tuned, you know, and so early do they sit pondering and thinking. And that's why we've got to kind of build a strong platform as early as we can, so that they've got some tools, or apparently, I've had muoms say that they they've been able to get home and the daughter's got the book out on the friendship thing, and she's checking down some other ideas

25:38  
was that we have a different approach to friendships, which is why sometimes, I've written about fragile boy friendships before because they don't use the same tools that bonding, they don't validate each other or say how they feel. Or I'll tell you why I like you. They don't tend to do that. They just want to jump on, you wrestle, you chase you fat and you're fine.

26:00  
All of those things are a way of a boy showing affection to another boy, they don't, don't like right. And then when we come around to the girls, it's the tend and befriend. So it's biologically wired in us to belong in groups in case you know, mammoths or a strange tribe came to invade our, our kinship community, the women protect the most vulnerable, but you need other women with you. So we've got a watering we're meant to be in groups. But man, that's the such a complex world.

26:34  
And it's one way I've probably ended up playing with boys more often because I just, I get it. And that was pretty complicated. But I'd spent so much of my childhood with my dad and my brother. And I have the perfect sister above me, who never made any mistakes or got crowded

26:52  
dresses and had blonde curls. And yeah, sweet. And I was none of those things. Right. So it was a space. And you know, we've got to recognize in this, you know, I never identified with a different gender. I just preferred the other gender in terms of bleh. Yeah, you know, absolutely. Now, that's why we list some of those things we used to do, which was neighborhood play would be multi age children with girls and boys, all immersed in all sorts of stuff with in the blood curdling scream of a grown up, because children learn off older children, but they also learn off boys and they can learn off girls. And if we're only playing with girls, we're not learning all sorts of other things. And boys have a tendency with testosterone to be more physically braver. And but if girls are in the company of those boys, they will stretch their capacity and they can be equally as brave. I think, you know, those conditionings of our culture we've that's why I keep saying how do you address little girls when you meet them? How often do you say you are how sweet you are, and aren't too gorgeousness? Yeah. And I'm saying you're telling her that the most important thing about her is her past sweet shares. All right, so I'm calling my grandson's gorgeous and beautiful as well, because I wanted them to see it was an inclusive label. So there's two ways that I've been I'm really been struggling with this because I still want to say it. Right? Because I mean, any little girl who's just they had this is sweetness, right? Is it a condition sweetness? Or is it? Are they a little bit sweeter? I don't know. I can't wait. There is two things I'll do now that I feel don't give them that message that their appearance. And the first one is sparkly shoes. And if they've got sparkly shoes on, you can't miss them. Right. They're just right there. Right. And I've got Oh, wow, check out your shoes. Do you reckon they make them big enough for nannies? Yeah, right. So yeah. And then the second one is, my goodness, look how much taller you've got since I last saw you because I don't think height can be too. But like I said, it's it's something I'm willing to just, you know, again, a little bit mindful of without necessarily saying it's not an okay thing. They're okay to think that they're beautiful and gorgeous. And yeah, it's tricky. That all is tricky. Yeah, absolutely. It's so hard. One of the things that you've got mentioning girlhood amongst, I mean, you know, it's a huge book.

29:23  
But what I found was really interesting, because obviously we're three girls and we talk about friendship dramas and stuff and you know, you sort of talk about not the mean girl but talking about unkind behaviour, which I think is actually a really powerful way of reframing. Yeah, Mean Girls. Yeah. Can you talk a bit more about that? I just don't think it's helpful. I just think we just label it together and stick it there. So a girl who can might say something you know, I don't really like the look of that. Do your dress doesn't look really nice. What well, that doesn't mean I'm being mean I'm just letting you know I don't like to dress like, does that is that where we start condition

30:00  
trying to say that is mean. So it's basically when when we make choices that make other people feel worse, then there is two different ways is there accidental or intentional? And that's the difference again. So when it seems like it's intentional, when we transform it into being unkind because kindness is kind of something that we've got to be a bit careful with that too, because I find that

30:28  
sometimes people are being kind in order to manipulate us girls are so good at manipulating the world. Yeah, we start there. But I do think very much. No, no, absolutely. I can remember my night I have a granddaughter was 18 months of age. That's younger, outside, you know, there's this apartment in Sydney. And she's in deep thought. And I'm watching thinking I've seen that before, because it's about to come out of a mouth. Yeah. Right. And then she went to daddy and asked for a biscuit. So she pointed up mum in the kitchen dad over there. Now he's, he's better, I'll go and ask him. That whole thing. So can you see when we have conversations about when we make choices that hurt ourselves or others or the world around us? And when we have conversations about that, to see what would have been a better choice that wouldn't have caused harm that is promoting kindness. But I think the other thing is fairness. What we know is that fairness is the thing that we want now out in our world of diversity that are we treating, you know, everyone deserves to have opportunities, you know, and that's the biggie, isn't it? That we even know, it's right out there. And we've got all sorts of commissions and inquiries that say, well, we need to be able to treat women more equally in the workplace. They're not there, you know, the number of CEO women is actually dropped in the last three years, you know, so still let ceiling there that still?

31:49  
Yeah, it's when does that become socially acceptable? You know, oh, goodness. We just keep moving forward. Yeah, we do. And it's a very nice memory, because I really want to remind parents on this one, if I can guess our girls remember kind of like, nearly everything. And they still have it because of our negative bias in our psychology to make sure we're keeping ourselves like we tend to remember the negative things more often. And, like Miss Ellie, who's now seven and a half, nearly eight, she still tells me we go to the playground, we accidentally tipped her out when she was only 18 months of age, she still tells me about it. Like she reminds me every time.

32:34  
This story is a couple came and talked to me about their five year old daughter just had a birthday. And she had chosen the cake and you know, all sorts of they thought they'd done a great job. Right? And you can still have fabulous birthday parties without inviting the whole class. Can I just FYI, that one? Please, FYI, that one. Anyway, okay. They'll be okay.

32:56  
Rotating round. It's a small family one, one year, you can hit six people, and maybe we can have a bigger one another year, but we don't have to have been her every year. He's not as a family. Okay, so these parents, but she was really quite sad during the day, you know, she wasn't sparking, like she's having the best birthday of her life. And this couple would just ever hope, right? And anyway, it was bath time and, and the dad he leaned over and said, Did you have a good birthday? She said, sort of? And he said, so. You seemed a bit sad. She said, Yeah. And he said, why would that be? And he said, she said, Because you didn't get me the present I asked for now when they looked at it, he asked for this present. Wait for it. 11 months before her birthday. And they they forgot to go. Wow, put keep a note. Write a note of it. Because seriously, just because she doesn't ask again. She's thought you've got that one. And I just dropped the ball. Yes.

33:57  
The whole fifth birthday. She was gonna It's a bit like, Oh, I remember the Christmas. Before I started big school, obviously, you know, Christmas is weren't quite so big thing in those days. And when I'm family of six, my main Christmas present was a new school bag and I am still pissed off. 

34:17  
guys, no, that's just wrong, right? That's a school bag. I knew basketball would have been better. But anyway, like,

34:27  
I won't get stuff and sometimes, you know, that's why when I was counseling, you know, girls and women bring up stuff that's been it's like baggage because we haven't let it go. Right? Because what happened at the time, is no one held the space. So I could talk it through, have it validated, and feel it. And if it's not it gets shoved down.

34:52  
And that's one of those spaces I keep saying mums and dads everywhere. Listen to your little girl when she's got that cross angry face. No, you don't have to tell her she's wrong. You don't have to fix anything. You just let her be in that. Yeah, good to be seen. Yes. That's what helps disempowerment. Yeah. Well, that's attack us later.

35:12  
Yeah, that's really interesting. And the other really interesting thing that I think was in your similar chapter of memories was talking about the importance of rituals and the nighttime ritual. And also the really interesting one about the same holiday. Yeah, you know, so you're actually building and reinforcing positive memories. And sometimes because we we've been doing that we've got this place in Pacific palms that we've been back to about probably seven or eight times since the girls were babies. It's getting to the point now, we're just starting to get back there. Again, we've been there so many times, but they remember it. And you know, every year they build upon those memories, and it is something that they will look back on when they're adults, that a really fond time where they're out on their scooters. And they've given a little bit more freedom. And, you know, we may not go there as frequently as we used to, because I like to do new things. But at the same time, it makes it validated that it's actually okay to do the same things over again, because it feels that well, it's about connection, isn't it, like my daughter loves to go to this same silly little motel on the Blue Mountains, cheap as I Can we walk around shops, and we go to a cafe and she always wants to go back. And I think it's the crappiest motel. But again, and that's the brain.

36:30  
Because in I've I've worked with families who have spent lots of money going on, you know, sometimes even going to Disneyland. And it just was way too stressful for the children, that they hated the whole damn thing because it was too much too quick.

36:46  
They could anchor themselves into so what happens when you go to something familiar, not only building a memory pathway, they know that it's going to be fun, because it already has been right. They know exactly where they're going. They know exactly what they're going to do. And even though they're going to change the way they do it, we underestimate what you know what stresses kids out. And sometimes it's too much too soon, too big, too loud and too excited by the parents.

37:16  
Crappy hotel, she knows how to manage and navigate that. Yeah, these familiar might be wanting to stretch and go to a different place or see something a bit different, but everything else is pretty similar. And you know, stress is one of the biggest things that causes the meltdowns and the Tantrums and the you know, the unpleasant moments in our parenting journey. Oh my goodness, well, we could talk to you for days, obviously and you are a wealth of knowledge and information and you know really genuinely lovely person as well. It's been an absolute pleasure to have you here on now, so that's Yeah, and you know what, we don't have to live with you. So that's a hammer with you and your delightful so don't commend girlhood

38:05  
amazing book and any other of your books, Maggie, of course, as well. And if you want more on Maggie, Maggie dent.com. And of course her podcast, as you mentioned is parental as anything at the seminar is your fight. And I've had a couple of women say to me, God, I've just been in such a journey during this seminar I have cried, even when it wasn't really sad, because the little girl inside is also beside you. And when you listen to me share those stories and laugh if you do laugh, and every now and then you go yes, that's exactly what we're doing. Right? And yes, I can do a bit more of that. So that's exactly why, you know, you can read a book, but sometimes, you know, you need to experience isn't that? Absolutely. We're back on the road again. So you're on you're on the north shore on Monday, the 17th at Shabbat Slee in world class. So I would definitely be there. I can't wait to see you in the real life. It'd be great.

39:02  
You're doing lots of venues around Australia. Yeah, we're gradually just picking them up. And also because I kind of getting a bit older, I can't do sort of three or four nights a week. So I'm planning to head up and go and visit family. Usually I'll put all the birthdays of my grandchildren in first, my sons aren't even getting mentioned anymore. I've told them that they're off the list. And then we'll go and visit them. And then on the way we'll pick up something and on the way back, we'll pick up something so that it's kind of really Yeah, one of the other things is that people still want the other ones that I've written books on. So it's tricky knowing what, what to do. So, at the moment, I'm still loving the journey. I'm definitely one that needs to be out with real people at times. I'm a bit sick of zooming. Once again, I think podcast is also the way that we're, we're reaching so many more next day when that lovely casual conversation. And I think often my best conversations have been with women, because we'd love to chat sometime.

40:00  
I'm certainly it's just like imagine the coffee or the cup of tea or the you know if you want that almond latte, cheers, kale, you go for whatever it is, but when we come together it's actually what we're biologically what we're meant to do is hold a safe space for other women and that's a big message in the book is and we teach our girls to help other women and girls shine when shine brighter. Yeah.

40:25  
Goosebumps what I want a message to end on. Thank you so much for your time and all the best with cute and the two are and see you in the real world. Yay.

40:39  
Thanks, Maggie.

40:42  
What an amazing conversation. She's so you understand why she's called the Queen of common sense parenting because absolutely everything she says. Make sense.

40:55  
Like, yeah, yes. Yes, it is so obvious, but not obvious in a, you know, silly way. But it's just yeah, actually, you know, connection. And, yeah, building your child up and focusing on their strengths. It just it makes sense, doesn't it? You know, and yeah, absolutely. And I think also to the great thing with her, of course, is she's so authentic. And so, you know, admits and raising her own sons, you know, she made mistakes here. And she's learned along the way. And she fell into all of this, like you talked about with, you know, we were saying she didn't plan this as a career. This is from this to this to this later to this very point. She's very passionate about it. And you know, you can you can hear that in the chat that she just wants to help and support and everyone who men, women, everyone to be better in themselves with and as parents and help our young ones along the way, you know, so I'm super grateful. I mean, honestly, you've got to get a copy of it. Because when I think about the book is Yeah, I mean, it's called girlhood, but I think anyone could read it even if you have sons and she obviously has books for that anyway, but this general great parenting tools, absolutely no so and also great references to other great books. So you know, other resources. She's not just about, you know, you got to be about Maggie den. She's about read this. Go to this person. Look at that, you know what I mean? Yeah, it's fantastic. It's pulled into what I really felt everything was consolidated into this book. It's incredible. It's a big Bible. Yeah.

42:25  
I think I'm gonna read it and then I'm gonna read it again, you know, 100% I'm going mad. Just so much.

42:34  
You know, want to be able to put a lot of that stuff into practice to you know, we all want to be the best we can be, don't we?

42:42  
Of course we do. Especially as parents for our kids.

42:47  
Yes, love it. Great lovers lovers. Thank you all for joining us again for another amazing episode of the Parenting Couch podcast. It's been great interview and we've got plenty more lined up so make sure you continue to follow us on the parenting couch. And on North Shore Mums we will be announcing our next exciting guest yes and if you are just joining us for the first time don't forget to go back because we have 10 other episodes if you haven't heard them of all these incredible experts in their field. I mean and it's such a diverse range I think Rachel which has been great you know we've had real estate any stare on and then you know Philip Heath from Barker College schools and Dr. Goodwin talking about technology.

43:31  
the list goes on and on. So you know don't forget to go back if you just so much and thank you to everyone else who has been listening so far and supporting us because yeah, you know, that's how we get to keep going and you know, we do enjoy it very much and I think it'd be lovely to people can go on and rate and review that really helps as well. You know to keep absolutely going and keep it all building so, so much for tuning in once again and we'll catch you two weeks time. See you soon. Bye.