Tips to support your teen through the big issues with EPIC CEO Madeleine Steel

Got a teen? As you enter the world of parenting a teenager, there are a whole range of new parenting challenges to face. No longer are you worrying about bed wetting, tantrums or fussy eating… you now might need to support your child through more serious issues like self harm, eating disorders or school refusal.

If you’ve got a teenager, it’s quite likely that you could be struggling to cope with some of the many new issues that are going on in their lives. Fortunately for us, help is out there. EPIC (Empowering Parents in Crisis) is a local service that provides peer support for parents and carers of teens facing challenges such as self harm, eating disorders, substance use, school refusal, ADHD and mental health concerns and criminal activity.

To get an insight into these challenging teenage years, Rachel and Sarah sat down with Madeleine Steel, CEO of EPIC to learn about the issues that can come up, and how EPIC provides a safe space to support parents who are struggling to deal with situations.

About Madeleine Steel

Madeleine is CEO and cofounder of EPIC, a peer support organisation for parents and carers of young people. Madeleine is passionate about helping parents and carers navigate the challenges of raising teenagers, and provide them with the support they need to thrive. 

Madeleine’s lived experience has led her to understand the importance of community connection in helping parents cope with the challenges they face. It is her belief that through peer support and sharing experiences and resources, parents/carers can learn from each other and build the resilience they need to best support themselves and their families.

Madeleine is also a keen horticulturist, landscaper, designer, travel consultant, but her most treasured hat is mother to two wonderful teenagers.

About EPIC (Empowering Parents in Crisis)

Stressed? Isolated? Confused? Parents are first responders to their young people, and EPIC has been created to provide a supportive community that is safe, anonymous and nonjudgmental. Through EPIC, you’ll discover  ideas, strategies and resources to help you parent your teenager.

Click here to join the EPIC Community to learn about upcoming events and to receive the newsletter. Click here to join the members-only private Facebook group.

Essential Details: EPIC

• Phone: 0426 425 164
• Email: contact@empoweringparentsincrisis.com
• Website | Facebook | Instagram

#theparentingcouch #theparentingcouchpodcast #parenting #northshoremums #parentingexperts #parentinginterviews

Transcript

Unknown Speaker  0:02  
This episode contains material that some listeners may find confronting. If you require support, please see the show notes for more information.

Unknown Speaker  0:13  
Welcome to The Parenting couch with Rachael Chappell and Sarah Levett honest conversations about what parenting is really like, because let's be real, it can be hard, proudly brought to you by North Shore moms.com on a year.

Unknown Speaker  0:30  
Hello, and welcome to another episode of the parenting couch Podcast. I'm Sarah Levitt.

Unknown Speaker  0:37  
And I'm Rachel chapel. And today we are talking teenagers, which is a phase that I need to be prepared for my daughter's just my eldest daughter has just turned 13 And I've got two more coming through and everyone wants me that the teenage years are hard. So we are very happy to be joined by our guest today, Madeline Steele. She is the founder and director of epic, which stands for empowering parents in crisis. Madeline, welcome to The Parenting couch.

Unknown Speaker  1:12  
All right. Thanks, Rachel. Hi, Sarah. Thanks for having me.

Unknown Speaker  1:16  
It's a pleasure. Let's just kick off by finding out about epic. What do you guys do?

Unknown Speaker  1:23  
Okay, so epic is a peer support platform for parents and carers of teenagers who are in crisis are parents and carers of young people in crisis or are facing challenges, whether that be mental health challenges or trauma and things like that. So we offer peer support, but we also offer connection to the excellent organizations that are out there that support families and, and young people in their journeys. So it's kind of like, one we support parents and carers. And also we act as a bit of a bridge.

Unknown Speaker  2:00  
Yeah, yeah. So it's basically it's the parents who are in crisis, and they're reaching out to you basically asking, How do I deal with this situation that's come up with my child. And you guys help direct them give advice and point them in the right direction?

Unknown Speaker  2:19  
Exactly. It's more or less like a Big Brother or Big Sister being there to guide them. So we're not counselors were peer support. So we've done like the Youth Mental Health First Aid, we've been on the journey we as a group, and as a collective, we can offer hindsight and and that sort of information, like many people land on a journey, suddenly, in a crisis, and they don't know which way to go. Now, whether that be where their child is engaged in, in drugs and alcohol, self harming, they might be, like, suddenly found in the youth justice system, something like that. And collectively, as a big group, we will have members that have been on that similar path. So often linking someone is, is it lightens the load a lot. And it's just such a relief to know that someone else might be going through such a thing. It sounds very daunting. It's not all horrible. So just entering this, this realm is and it's not, it's not, you know, dreadful. It's beautiful, actually, having teenagers is fun and beautiful. But there's a lot of challenges.

Unknown Speaker  3:26  
There's a lot of challenges. I mean, look, there was a lot of challenges, of course, you know, when we were going through those teenage years, but I would imagine that now, there is much, much more of a need. I mean, maybe there was back then, but I just feel with technology and everything. And then COVID shoe, there must be such a great need. Now, sadly, I know you say it's not heavy, but at the end of the day, there are I feel bigger challenges for teenagers than then maybe when we were young. Is that true?

Unknown Speaker  3:56  
Oh, that's absolutely true, I think and also, I think it's true for parenting teenagers that are going through. So we're kind of like the crash test dummies for the digital era. So we haven't been through the digital era, however, we're sort of trying to navigate it and help as much as we can. And it is all just trial and error. Really, no matter what you go. We're even even the experts. We haven't seen a whole generation go through this before. But the information that is available at the fingertips is frightening. It's, it can be dangerous, and then you can use it for good as well. So you have to look at both sides of it.

Unknown Speaker  4:33  
Yeah, absolutely. So I mean, I guess for us, it's good to kind of look ahead and, you know, you hear of stuff that teenagers go through so I thought maybe, you know, say for example, if your child is you know, you talk about self harm, what would you suggest to a parent? Is it something that the child is likely to admit to is it something that they hide? What What's your kind of experience with With that particular issue.

Unknown Speaker  5:02  
Okay. Yeah, I just would like to say that once I realized that we can parents can call themselves first responders, it sort of clicks you then into an idea that, okay, we are first responders, we see this, how do we deal with that, and, and we're not necessarily trained or you know, or prepared for any of this. And from the understanding that I have with with self harm, and something that I've just read just recently is, one in four young girls will self harm, which is a massive statistic, it's really frightening and one in eight, so just imagine being in the house, wondering if that's going on in the closed door in the bedroom, the hall and not wanting to intrude? So a suggestion that I would, would give would be to arm yourself with as much information as possible. And they're the members of epic, a lot of us have done Youth Mental Health First Aid, and all of us have said, we wish we'd done it earlier. So it actually targets mental health, all the different spectrums of you know, what you might come across, but also strategies on how to open a conversation and, and the realization if we're going to use an example of self harm, that it's a coping strategy, it's not necessarily because they want to end things, it's in each situation is different. So if you can sort of take the information in and process it, and then you're the best person who knows your child, but also find out how you can best support them and how they communicate. So they may communicate by SMS is better than talking to you or something like that, then it might be emojis, but finding the strategies and a bit also arming yourself educating yourself in, in how this can happen, and there are quite regularly Youth Mental Health First Aid courses offered for free or offered through different organizations. So I would say that would be one one big

Unknown Speaker  7:12  
tip. Yeah, because I guess if you you know, your child's experiencing mental health issues, or you know, you're not quite sure what's going on. It is tricky, as a parent knows that, oh, do I need to put them in for a counselor or a psychologist, but it's like, you know, that conversation, I guess can happen at home, to begin with, and knowing how to, I guess, speak to your child and get them to open up and have that trust and know that whatever issue they're going through, they can talk to you about it.

Unknown Speaker  7:45  
Yeah, absolutely. Opening the door early, you know, the earlier the better. And, you know, not to say that that will stop everything that might come up on their part, because because things happen environmentally, you know, there might be bullying, there might be all sorts of different things that come across their path. But having an open door is is wonderful. And many of the parents that, you know, have found themselves in crisis have got that open door, and they're still in shock. So having it there, that the young person still knows that they've got a safe space, regardless, as hard as that is, regardless that you will always be there for them and love them is one, you know, is one of the major things that we've seen as, as you know, some of us have gotten quite a bit of hindsight now, you know, having been on a journey for a few years. Just doing the hard yards.

Unknown Speaker  8:42  
Yeah. So what I mean, you talk about, that's quite a high number or statistic around the self harm. And girls, what are some of the other as Rachel says, we're entering into that to that zone? And for the, for our listeners as well, what are some of the other major sort of crisis things and issues that they are facing now? Are you finding if you had to sort of talk about the top ones that were? Maybe?

Unknown Speaker  9:11  
Just yeah, so it's just some statistics that I pulled off the web because I had to do a presentation. So that was one with the self harm. And you know, suicide being the leading killer of young people in Australia, aged 15 to 24. Also, young males have the highest rate of substance misuse disorder. So you know, there's a lot of statistics out there two in five, Australian young people struggle with mental health. The thing that we say is we've got a membership group, the private membership group, and we do ask the question when people come on board is, you know what brought you here today? And it's it's quite emotional to read these things. So the lists really, really long like risky behavior, self harm school refusal, depression, drugs, alcohol, vaping aggression, Ada HD odd, like oppositional defiance disorder, running away from home in trouble with the law. And and in most cases, it's more than one issue. So it's, it's, it's a combination. Yes. So that's quite a list. There's one sorry, teens are made to experiment, you also need to equip yourself and prepare yourself that some of these things are going to happen, how far it can affect, you know, the journey.

Unknown Speaker  10:28  
Yeah, have you seen like, obviously, since all the homeschooling and the COVID and stuff, you talk about school refusal, and I've got a friend who's got an older teen, and I think you'll see me a 10 or something, and he just did like, after we could go back to school, he just didn't want to go, and he's just, she's had him at home, and he just doesn't want to go back to school. And she just like, I really felt her pain, because she just didn't really know, I don't really feel like the school was very supportive, or helped provide a strategy for getting him back. And I just like, what do you do in that situation? When your child is just like, Nah, I don't want to go Mom, Dad, I just don't want to go to school hat. How do you handle? Like I just did, I didn't know what to say to her. And I just thought you might know. No, I know.

Unknown Speaker  11:18  
I mean, basically, you don't know what to say do just a lot of listening. And being there for someone that school refusal is one of the main things I was talking with someone who runs parents support group, I think it's called tuning entertains. And when I asked her what the main problem that parents were seeing from from that angle, she said, definitely school refusal. So it is a big one. And I think that the schools also have been inundated with this, and they're trying to learn how to cope with it. And a lot of good stuff is coming out of schools because of it. So for instance, they have implemented support systems within schools. And they also acknowledge that there are outside organizations that can come in and support as well. So sometimes forcing a child to school is, is going to be detrimental in the long run. And then some schools fortunately, might say, okay, just turn up in your school uniform for five minutes. So some schools are doing that sort of thing. So just getting you used to turning up. I think COVID has made it easier for the a lot to stay at home. And then there are other options. However, there's not enough other options for homeschooling and for distance education, which is, which is some of the strategies. So I think one of the main things as that I've heard of how to cope with these sorts of things is listen to the listen to the young person, see where they're coming from, from their educational point of view, because there may well be a different stream of education that might be suitable for them. With as a peer group realized how important routine is for young people and, and having that safe space, which is why school is really an important place. And it's great to have them on your team. As in when you're supporting your child and the end the school being part of the team. But you can also have outside supports, there's different organizations such as youth upfront, the rays Foundation, some some organizations will actually go into schools and mentor children, some of them will have, you can actually have your child attend somewhere else for a little while and then come in. So there are options, it's good to just find out and see where also your school is with these options and find out if it is, in fact the right place. And you can also introduce these options to your school, they may not have needed to use them in the past or thought of them. So

Unknown Speaker  14:00  
do you think that with where we're at now, that it's I just I'm just trying to reflect, you know, on, on our upbringing and everything? Do you think it's because there was a bit more tough parenting going on when we were younger? You know, there was a bit of like, I mean, there's certainly more outdoor play and things and we certainly didn't have the technology. And we've acknowledged that, but do you think that it's now that mental health is actually a conversation that people are properly having, and it's on the table? And COVID has pushed that out a bit too, but I think it was there before that. Do you think that that's there's all these organizations you've mentioned and your organization, you know, and talking about psychologists and diagnosis, and all of that just seems to be a much bigger conversation now. Do you think that that is the case or is there more cases of mental health issues or is it that we're talking about

Unknown Speaker  14:55  
it you know, it's so hard to tell it I'm definitely not an expert in that field, but you know, on roughly actually been, you know, having been to school and in the not digital age. And I, I also can can see that perhaps there were a lot of problems that just went under the carpet and maybe people haven't dealt with particular things. It's a big question and I can't really answer it. There's Yeah, a lot going on now. And I think because there's so much information at our fingertips like you couldn't find out, you know, you can find out a diagnosis nearly by yourself on the computer. Yeah, and I'm

Unknown Speaker  15:33  
finding like, it's really sad, actually, I've noticed a lot of people and people I know, and just people that I see, you know, on social media and things are getting diagnosed with autism, and you know, ADHD, and all these things that they weren't diagnosed, they weren't diagnosed with his children, and they've gone their whole lives, maybe to their 30s and 40s, misunderstood misunderstanding themselves. So, you know, in that respect, I think it's fantastic that, you know, this is all being explored. I mean, maybe we've swung the pendulum too far, maybe I don't know. But maybe you can't swing it too far, when it comes to these sorts of things. Because at the end of the day, the sooner people are recognized for who they are and what they're about. And then like you say, picking schools, you know, like, I'm thinking about the person you were talking about Rachel and thinking, you know, maybe it's not the right school, like for they're not the right fit, you know, because that's the other thing is that you just get sent to the local public school because, you know, well, it's expensive to go to other types of schools and to local, but sometimes, depending on the child and where they're at, that's not the right fit for them. And so their resistance is in and around. I don't actually like it there. I don't feel safe there. Like you were saying, Madeline, you've got to feel safe at schools, a lot of hours. They spend, especially in their teenage years, where my friend was a psychologist actually said once and I thought this was a great, and I've hung on to this for the day, Rachel, you'll appreciate this too. And and maybe you would you probably know this model, which was, it's like their brain goes on the fritz for three years when they go through this juncture. And so you're dealing with a grown up body, potentially, you know, the same size as you even my daughter will be bigger than me. And their brains are like two year olds. No, but it's true. And so when you think of it like that, I think it's much easier to be able to be more compassionate and kind and work with them. Because you understand that it is like just having, again, someone who's more like to in their emotional brain. So you know, I think that that's, I've hung on to that, because I'm not wrong. But I remember that, that time. She sat on the floor and slamming doors, just like when she was two and three. So yeah, except there'll be six foot possibly. She's headed in that direction for it anyway.

Unknown Speaker  18:04  
Yeah, look, I think you've got a point. And I think investigating the school because often it's a barrier, and you don't want to rock the boat. Because you think by rocking the boat and asking particular questions might be detrimental to how the school might treat your family or you know, your young person. And remember, there's often siblings involved as well. So, so it involves the whole family unit. But I think equipping yourself with what's out there and having a look at that is yeah, it's definitely worth worth taking the time.

Unknown Speaker  18:38  
Drugs vaping and all those alcohol all that stuff that teenagers can experiment with. At this stage, like what like how do we prepare, I guess our children for that phase of, I guess peer pressure or, you know, trying stuff or if you find out your child's been vaping from another parent or whatever. How do we, I guess Question number one, how do we prepare for that situation with maybe the younger teens that are coming through

Unknown Speaker  19:16  
education again, is looking into it and finding out I know that during in the schools, they educate the kids as well. But you know, it's it's, you know, it's there's still funneling in there. They're getting in in every door I think the vape So educate yourself on what's involved with it so that if it does come up, then you're not clutching at straws and just talking at them. Otherwise you can you can really talk with them, and ask them what they know about it and and what they've heard as well. Someone had given me some advice years ago, which was the 8020 rule, which was try and let them talk 80% of the time and you talk 20 Which is crazy when you actually try do that. But it's a good thing to remember. Because that empowers them with the information because they have actually got the information in there. But they haven't got the the maturity of decision making that we have. So that information is somewhere in the back. But why not keep it a little bit more to the France?

Unknown Speaker  20:21  
Yeah, I think it's what you say about that open, keeping the door open, so to speak. I mean, I didn't feel like I kept a lot of things from my mom, I have to say, because I think I was so worried about getting in trouble and the ramifications of what that felt like for me. And so, you know, I mean, I look again, back then when it was much tamer in a lot of ways of the things that were going on. But even so, you know, I think I just, you know, I really hope. And I know that we still some things that they hide, I guess it's nice to have other people in your life, they can go to as well, because they might be more inclined to talk to an auntie type, you know, someone or, you know what I mean? Someone who plays a different role than you that they feel safe with to, I mean, you can try your best to keep the door open. But at the end of the day, like you say, Madeline, they will still be pushing boundaries and trying things, it's natural, and it's a normal part of their development.

Unknown Speaker  21:23  
Yeah, I think just what you said about having someone else in their life having other having a bit of a support network around if they wanted to check in then they can, is really, really important. It's, and it's not easy for sorts of a lot of people if they're new to the area or things like that. But creating a support network is really, really helpful. And that could be a support network at school. So there, there may be a teacher that they can talk with that can ask those questions that also you might have a relationship with. But yeah, that's a great point. Well, or an organization

Unknown Speaker  21:59  
like yours, you know, as well,

Unknown Speaker  22:01  
yes, yes. Yeah. Well, there are actually there's, I mean, there is so much out there where children can get information online, but also have an interaction with so there's an organization that has, it's a local organization, that Harrison riddle Foundation, which has the your crew, and it's a it's an app, which actually connects kids with kids, but also kids with their older support network. And, and it is like some way that they can communicate, and they can just communicate with, you know, a few words or a few emojis, but it means that the, the support people for those children, get alerts to check it and remind them to check in as well. So that's a really, really good tool. Well, I can plug that one a little bit further as well, because on that app is also a really extensive resource network. So information that if you had a question about just about anything, you can find it by adults, but also for the, for the young people. So it kind of empowers them with some information not to, I mean, obviously, you need experts, but to guide them in direction. So yeah, that's a really good one.

Unknown Speaker  23:11  
What other words of advice have you got for us? Madeline? Is mom Sarah, about to enter the teen? Teenage? What else can we do to kind of, I know, I need to know. Any other words of wisdom for,

Unknown Speaker  23:28  
if you open that out to the friendship group, you may find that you get phone calls from their friends as well in the middle of the night and things like that, and then and that they know that you're a safe point then and protect and, you know, they can renew for anything. So the whole support network, not necessarily just just your, your child,

Unknown Speaker  23:49  
which is amazing when you when you talk about that, because I think again, that's something that's shifted a bit too, you know, with technology and sort of less play amongst and movement around neighborhoods and people, you know, it's like we are, yeah, less community based, I think, you know, especially with COVID, obviously, we all became quite isolated. But I think that's really important what you say and I hadn't really thought about that as well about being that person to other people that might not have that in their own environment as well. And if, you know, if we're more aware of that and more open to that, then that broadens it out more and as you say, becomes more community base, which is what we need. For every parent's to parent like that's what that's what Rachel did installing Northshore mom was to create connection and a place where people can feel supported in their journey as a parent, but obviously the teens need it too. Kids need it, everyone. Yeah, yeah. It's amazing.

Unknown Speaker  24:51  
I think a great big word of wisdom is know how to keep your get your own oxygen mask on. So really, I think what happens a lot One of the time is it can be so stressful and so full on that you, particularly if there's something that goes on as a crisis type thing you tend to isolate and whether that's from stigma, but you might retract from community and from friends. So I think the biggest piece of advice would be, know what you need to keep you either laughing or happy. So whether that be walking in the bush, or, you know, just just make sure that you keep your strength, because that is also going to be seen by your younger people as well. So they're going to be seeing that your, your, your whole true, you know, functioning person that, that has a life. And I think that that is a great role model. So, you know, have your fun, do the things that make you happy? Because that's what life is, you know, I think it's Yeah, connecting.

Unknown Speaker  25:57  
Yeah. Yeah. And it's true for any stage of the parenting journey, isn't it? Like, if you've got a baby's still need to look after yourself so that you can look after them? And, you know, throughout life, but I think as moms, we always, you know, put ourselves on the back burner. I think I've got to help, you know, do that. And that, and that, and that. And then meanwhile, you're just a ragged mess. It's a good reminder. It's a very good reminder. Yeah. And I think to

Unknown Speaker  26:24  
keep the light I know, they're heavy subjects. And I don't mean, I'm not making light of them. But I also think it a lot of junctures in the parenting journey, like you say, it gets really serious, and you get really upset when things are going on, worried and all caught up about when, you know, when they little, it's a wrestle or it's a you know, play for moment there. That's important too, because it, it can all get quite heavy going. And that's lovely to defuse, again, not taking away from some of these more serious things. But you know, that's part of it. So is that balance, isn't it? You know? Yeah, absolutely. In the family dynamic? Because I mean, you know, you've got to Madeline, teenagers. Rachel has three children. So that's five people in your house. You know, I don't know how many you have all together in your house, Madeline. But you know, that's a lot of people a lot of dynamics at play. And for dogs, more dogs.

Unknown Speaker  27:20  
For people for dogs, so that's a good

Unknown Speaker  27:25  
balance is balanced.

Unknown Speaker  27:28  
For every person that was that, well, they remain. But they're amazing too, aren't they to have animals is so healing and so important to have them around for kids and teenagers? Yeah,

Unknown Speaker  27:39  
yeah, they are they good? I would say for us too many, but I wouldn't get rid of any of them. I do.

Unknown Speaker  27:47  
Yeah, you're not allowed to get rid of them. Now. It's been absolutely amazing. To have you on that. And you have a podcast tell us about that, too. Before we we go Yes.

Unknown Speaker  27:55  
Yes. We've just launched epic conversations. So it's, it's more or less an information type podcast that can parents with some strategies and advice on what to do. So we've got five so far. So one is alcohol and other drugs. And that's where Vivian Lee from ESTEC she's absolutely awesome. And which is ESTEC and Sydney drug education counseling cert Center, which is local, so people can always reach out to them there for free. We've got a podcast on self harm and suicidal ideation with man acres. They've got Steve. Gamble. Sorry, Steve. We've spoken with Helen bird from the butterfly foundation about eating disorders and body image issues. We've spoken to this wonderful school support officer, student School Student Support Officer about the support networks within schools and also something that sort of flies under the radar. But we've spoken to Kathy Ellis from gamble aware, so just the incidence of gambling with young people and, and and how it absolutely explodes by the time they turn 18. If they've been, you know, quite desensitized, by the time you've got there if you've got all your devices and things like that, so your epic conversations, anyone can reach out if they've got something to talk about and help her interviews, we'd love to talk to you. So thank you.

Unknown Speaker  29:22  
Well, we'll we'll be sure to include a link to that so people can listen to your podcast and a bit more details because we've kind of covered the surface of a lot of the issues that teens can face. But, you know, I think to really deep dive into some of those issues, you've got some amazing experts you've spoken to so they sound like great interviews.

Unknown Speaker  29:41  
Thank you.

Unknown Speaker  29:43  
It's an absolute pleasure. It was really lovely to chat to you. It's great to know you're out there to to help us parents through the next the next stage the teenage years.

Unknown Speaker  29:55  
Fantastic. Thank you so much for your time today and for what you guys do It's very important, you know, these organizations. So

Unknown Speaker  30:03  
thank you. And I would like to say thank you very much for everything that you do and really everything you do for for parents as well. So I think it's just wonderful that we're working together and thank you for having me.

Unknown Speaker  30:14  
Well, that was another great interview. And gosh, we've got so many amazing guests that we've spoken to over the last few months. So once you've finished this episode, be sure to head back into the archives and and listen to something else. We're all at different stages of our parenting journey so they may not all be relevant but tune in to the ones that that are because the guests are extremely high calibre and we are very, very grateful that they've come on the parenting couch.

Unknown Speaker  30:40  
Amazing. I love it every time. I hope I hope it's the same for you guys as well. Don't forget you can check us out on all the socials parenting couch Northshore moms and Northshore moms.com.au and be good to yourselves and we will catch you next time.

Unknown Speaker  30:56  
I am looking forward to it. See ya. See you later.